This document updated on Sun Oct 15 20:54:42 MDT 2000

Dr. Gene Miller Presentation on Fluoride in the Environment

12 October 2000
©2000 James Knowles

Introduction

These are notes that I took during Dr. Miller's presentation. I've gone through them and cleaned them up a little. It is possible that some numbers are incorrect as I'm not a 100% perfect touch typist and do err occasionally. To the best of my knowledge they are correct, however. As I'm not a transcriptionist either, these notes are not a word-for-word blow of the event, but my best attempt to record the meaning of what was said without distorting it.

One thing to note was that there was a KVNU microphone there and somebody with a TV camera during the entire presentation. Dr. Miller's answers and statements were very subdued and diplomatic. When asked pointed questions to draw him into coming right out and disclaim water fluoridation, he would normally look at the floor for a moment in thought, shoot a quick glance at the camera, and answer diplomatically with something like `those that think that they can derive some benefit from fluoride, can easily get it; there's not need to force it on everybody.' Afterwards he apologized privately that he couldn't answer those types of questions under the circumstances even though he wanted to.

He stated that in years past he has been publicly and harshly criticized by people in the health professions for presenting his research. With everything on the record and one of the lead pro-fluoridation figures in the audience, he handled the questions very nicely in a non-confrontational way that still didn't back down from his obvious "this is not good" opinion.

Introduction of Dr. Miller

The host of the presentation showed a paper with a huge list of credentials for Dr. Miller. Among the many credentials, Dr. Miller is the secretary for the International Society for Fluoride Research.1 The ISFR represents some 200 researchers throughout the world. They meet annually or semi-annually. The ISFR scientists are doctors, biologists, physicists, chemists, etc. The commonality between this diverse group of scientists is an interest in fluoride.

Dr. Miller has published about 60 papers on his fluoride research.

Presentation by Dr. Miller

Dr. Miller has been working on fluoride research since 1957. He was brought to USU specifically to study fluoride. Utah county industries were using coal high in fluorine. The fluorine was going into the air, causing considerable problems with plants, animals, etc.2

Dr. Miller studied the fluorine in the soil, air, and water. We have to understand how fluorine gets in organisms and how they are affected as part of the ecosystem.


[slide of cycle of fluorine in ecosystem]
Vulcanism, soil, plants, industrial emissions (e.g. HF), leaching, ground water, streams, runoff, and sediments all play apart in this cycle.

Dr. Miller did a lot of research in Yellowstone and Idaho where the geothermal water is high in fluoride.

In Yellowstone he measured water from many places. He found anywhere from 0.51 to 20ppm. Salinity is typically very high along with the high fluoride content. These are typically highest in geysers.

The high fluoride content (8.8 to 30ppm) and high salinity in geothermal water is typical.

Dr. Miller invited people to ask questions along the way, which spurred a question on teas. He stated that most teas accumulate fluoride, but that varies depending on the species. When asked about herbal teas, he said that some teas, such as elderberry, accumulate fluoride, but that again varies depending on the species of the plant.

In water fluorine is soluble as NaF (sodium fluoride) and CaF2 (calcium fluoride).

Recycled water from power plant cooling towers concentrate fluorine. [I think(?) that he mentioned that fluorine is also used to precipitate material in the water.(?)]
At Hunter and Huntington power plants, fluoride concentrations are magnified tenfold, 2.4-3.8ppm were measured. pH was relatively high.

Ranch water in Idaho was measured in areas known to be high in fluoride. Regular well water was 0.81ppm. Warm water well was 14ppm. Bruneau was 8.4-11.5ppm. Geothermal irrigation water was 5.4-10.4ppm.
Question: What is Logan? Answer: ~0.2ppm.

Dr. Miller said that 2-3ppm fluoride for many organisms cause many problems.

He started to talk about plants in more detail to give an example of how fluoride works in biological processes. The same principles are seen in animals (and humans).
Plants concentrate (accumulate) fluoride.
At the UP&L research area, where the water has 2-3ppm fluoride, the plants had over 40ppm. (The normal range for plants is 0-10ppm.) The normal range for these plants6 is around 7ppm. They observed in excess of a fourfold increase in fluoride concentrations than is normal for plants (at 0-10ppm). Also listed on the slide were some plants that had 51ppm.

[Slide of Yellowstone area plants and water]
Plants that were in areas with low fluoride water had an average of 5.5ppm fluoride.
Plants near geysers had high fluoride concentrations (430, 58, 142, and 29ppm averages).
Plants uptake minerals only in certain form.

[Slide of various species]
Irrigation H2O Sprayed with H2O with 6ppm fluoride Alfalfa 1.5ppm
Alfalfa 1.5ppm ~49ppm
Corn (leaf) 9.3ppm ~39ppm

These above were simply F solution sprayed on leaves. This is F absorbed directly through the leaf.

[Slide of barley and aerial sprays7]
Fluoride concentration in H2O Fluoride concentration water accumulated in plant8
Control 1-6ppm
1ppm <=36ppm
5ppm <=104ppm
10ppm <=210ppm
20ppm <=580ppm
(Again, the above table is my fast summary; there are many details left out.)

The thing to note with plants is that plants will readily absorb fluorine that is sprayed on the leaves. If flood irrigation is used, the plants accumulate far less fluoride due to calcium absorption in the soil and the plant's discriminatory uptake through the roots. Dr. Miller repeated several times in the lecture that farms that use sprinkler irrigation produce plants that are much higher in fluorine.

[another slide]
For sprinkle irrigation from irrigation water, plants typically have higher fluoride concentrations, up to 25ppm.
When geothermal water is used, the plants have 265, 184, 247 ppm.

Question about milk: Answer: Fluoride does not get transferred to milk generally. The soft tissues do not readily take up fluoride. 30ppm fluoride in cow feed would cripple cows, but the fluoride content in the milk was still low. Most fluoride goes into the bone structure.

[slide: flood vs. sprinkle irrigation]
Flood irrigation produced 15ppm in plants. (He commented that that was unusually high.)
Sprinkle irrigation was about 100ppm in plants.
In geothermal water:
Flood irrigation produced 60ppm in plants.
Sprinkle irrigation produced 397ppm in plants.

Question about pesticides. Answer: There are pesticides that have free fluoride.

[slide]

CaO2(PO4)6 + 7H2SO4 + 3H2O ---> 3CaH4(PO4) . 2H2O + 7CaSO4 + 2HF9
SiO2 + 4HF ---> SiF4 + 2H2O
When soil is heated around manufacturing plants SiF4 and HF are released.
Plants vary in sensitivity.

[slide - photo of necrosis in the tips and leaf margins of apricots]
Gladiolas are extremely sensitive to fluoride. They are used as an indicator around industrial pants. They die at 1ppb of fluoride in the air. Tulips are also quite sensitive.

Other plans, however, are quite tolerant. Grasses, alfalfa, and other forage plants can have hundreds, even up to 1000ppm. The plant won't show it externally, but animals will be hurt by eating these plants. 10

[slide - Pocatello 1995]
Most plants are normal. Some have very high fluoride levels (507,307ppm) from air pollution.

[slide]
Fluoride accumulates in tissue.
The slide shows a graph of plants exposed over eight days. There is a linear relationship between the exposure time and the accumulated fluoride levels in the plants.
The plants were sprayed with 40ppb fluoride for eight days. Plants had 300ppm after the eight days.

Question: accumulation in corn kernel and seed. Answer: There is little accumulation in corn fruit (seed). Most of the accumulation for corn is in the leaves.

[slide]
Slide shows diffusion of HF across the plasma membrane and accumulation of fluoride in various organelles of the cell. The picture shows outside cell wall (pH~5.8), in the cytoplasm (pH7.2), mitochondria (pH7.8), and chloroplast (pH8.0). These are where enzymes are to energize the cell biology.

[slide]
Henderson-Hasselbach distribution of subcelular F11,12.

Fluorine must be in the right form to get across the cell membrane. [?form of fluorine] can't penetrate easily, but HF can penetrate very readily.

Note that fluoride concentrates in the organelles. 1ppm fluoride outside the cell walls accumulates. The enzymes in these critical regions are severely affected by fluoride. The fluorine supplants magnesium and phosphorus and other elements at critical points along the enzymes and shuts the enzyme down.

Most of these enzymes are also in animals, except of course, those such as take part in photosynthesis. Fluoride also accumulates in the organelles of animal cells and shuts down enzyme activity by the same mechanism.

Enolase is affected by 5mM13 fluoride.14
ATPase is very sensitive.

[slide]
Effect of NaF on mung bean germination.

Germination of seeds is affected by fluoride concentration.
At 1.9ppm <70% of the seeds would germinate.
At 4.5ppm <40% of the seeds would germinate.

Question: ? Answer: You have to take into account the accumulation. Half of fluoride is excreted in humans. Some fluoride goes in soft tissue. Most accumulation is in the bones.

[slide]
Tolerance levels in feed and water of domestic animals15
Heiffers dairy and beef >30ppm in feed causes problems.
2.5ppm in water causes problems.
Fluorosis in cattle is very difficult to determine (without killing the animal). At 2.5ppm fluoride in water, cow milk production is affected. Milk production falls with accumulation in cows.

He pointed out that these numbers are from the National Academy of Science. There are some people who argue that these numbers are too high.

Note that there can be a combination of feed and water. As the fluoride water goes up, the critical level for feed goes down, et vice versa.

[slide]
Picture of a cow with fluoride-induced osteoporosis and can't stand. Taken by Dr. [Shoop(sp?)].

[slide]
Picture of a bull with high fluoride water. Note appearance of big joints.

[slide]
Teeth of a bull with severe fluorosis. All teeth have large black areas. Some teeth look as if eaten away. If the animal is exposed to fluoride while the teeth are growing, fluorosis can occur.

[slide]
More bovine teeth. Browning all over teeth.

[slide]
Buffalo in Yellowstone with fluorosis of teeth. Bad. (Yuck)

[slide]
Bovine teeth that look OK. This bull with severe fluorosis can't walk. It didn't receive fluoridated water until after it had grown. The point of the slide is to show that the teeth are affected by fluorosis when forming.

[slide]
Picture of leg bones from cattle. The one on the left is the control, nice and smooth. The other three are from animals that have been exposed to increasing amounts of fluoride, from left to right. Moving from left to right the bones are increasingly thick with convoluted surfaces.

[slide]
Picture of cross section of the bones. The bones with fluorosis have a solid core (1/2 of the bone thickness to the gutted core), with increasingly huge pitted holes as you move to the outer edge. Dr. Miller said that these were increases in bone cells(?). (I didn't quite get that.)

[change slide trays]

[slide]
More cows in Idaho at 5ppm fluoride that can't stand.

[slide]
Other animal with high fluoride. Question regarding time to develop. Answer: Some take one year. Others take five years.

[slide]
This animal has been off fluoride for two years. Note the increased joint size. Damaged bones do not revert back. The damage is permanent.

[slide]
Fluoride content of selected foods in the US16

Repeat question about milk being so low. Answer: Even animals with severe fluorosis, the milk fluoride level is very low.

[slide]
Show picture of fluorosis in teeth of a young human boy in Idaho where the family had a well at 2(?)ppm. What lovely, big brown teeth! (Covering some 3/4 of the surface area.)

[slide]
Pictures he took in India while studying fluoride there. The man in the foreground has malformed legs and is standing against a wall with a staff in his hand.
200M people in China suffer from fluorosis.

[slide]
Pictures of people whose bones have been severely affected.

[slide]
One old woman who cannot stand up straight. Her body is literally bent at a 90° angle and stands with a stick in her hand. Her water is about 5ppm.

[slide]
York study - Dr. Miller showed booklet of the study. Analysis of fluoridation and its effects. No primary research was done.18 Most results show no statistical difference. The didn't run studies, but looked at reports in literature, combined them, and then ran statistical analyses.

[slide]
Same study
Occurance of visible dental fluorosis by water fluoride level

They conclude that you do get a mottling of teeth with lower levels of fluoride.20

[slide]
Same study
(I didn't quite catch the meaning of this slide)
Increase from 0.4-0.7ppm = 2% increase
Increase from 0.4-1.2ppm = 6.5% in amount of area.
This is table of "aesthetic concern"

[slide]
Same study
Fractures affected by fluoridation
Hip fractures not statistically different.
Wrist fractures showed positive correlation.21
Dr. Miller noted that these are from reading others' papers.

[slide]
DMFT rates
Brisbane22 a commission was put the the task of examining whether to fluoridate. During the years 1987-1995 in unfluoridated Brisbane the DMFT rates all went down.
The conclusion of the commission "Many task force members had doubts that the available evidence proved that the dental care problem in Brisbane was serious enough to warrant water fluoridation."
Decay rates have been falling for three decades beforehand.
Research evidence showed the complexity of trying to separately identify the benefits of water fluoridation alone.
DMFT rates in Queensland fell from 2.3 to 1.37 during 1987-1995. The commission concluded that better dental hygiene was the determining factor.

[End of prepared lecture]

Question and Answer Session

[Open for questions]23
Q: What is difference of update in fluorosilicates and NaF?
A: CaF2 is less available, NaF is 90% available, he hasn't seen any figures at all for fluorosilicates.
Q: The questioner alleged that France puts NaF in its table salt (NaCl); would this be better than in water?
A: He doesn't think so. It'd be nice if fluoridated salt were available to those people who thought it might benefit them.
Q: [?]
A: CaF2 is much less capable of causing fluorosis because it is less available. Peaches are extra sensitive to fluoride in the air. Spraying peach trees with a calcium solution helps where there is aerial fluoride pollution.
Q: Re: calcium-deficient children and fluoride poisoning
A: There is a correlation. Low calcium intake allows more free fluoride to attack the body.
Q: Effect of 1ppm over time
A: In plants there is an accumulation. There are reports the fluoride affecting enzymes in humans that catalyse and those that destroy free radicals. Personally he feels that those who want fluoride, that feel that it is good, that there are easy ways to get fluoride without putting a load on the environment.
Q: Where does fluoride go?
A: Typically 50% excreted through urine, under 50% in bones, the rest accumulates in soft tissue. As we get older, there is a greater effect on the bones because of total exposure.
Q: Regarding the effects on the thyroid.
A: I don't know.
Q: Logan's fluoride level
A: ~0.2ppm
Q: Effects on teeth
A: Teeth are affected when forming. E.g. 2ppm on teeth that are formed have no effect, but when the teeth are forming, there is that24 effect.
Q: 1% of water is used by people. 99% goes into the environment. What is the effect on the environment?
A: Our soils are high in calcium, which ties up fluoride. Sprinkled irrigation is of greater concern, however, since the plants readily accumulate fluoride in the water.
Q: What problems with steel plants in Utah county.
A: The steel companies where burning a local coal high in fluoride. Vegetation clear up into southern Salt Lake county had huge concentrations of fluoride. Cattle had fluorosis. Teeth were destroyed. The steel plants changed their source of coal and cleaned up their emissions (via scrubbers) and the problem has gone away. There are manufacturing plants that we still have to monitor, e.g. around brickyards and phosphate plants. [Comment from the audience regarding cleaner air and now the plants can sell the toxic waste to communities for fluoridation at a profit. Dr. Miller smiled, looked at the camera, and said nothing.]
Q: Regarding the effect on fish populations
A: He doesn't know. John Newhold did research in this area. He does know that fish can accumulate quite a bit of fluoride in their muscle tissue. Some ocean fish can be quite high at 23-30ppm.
Q: Fluoride in bodies of water, when evaporated into the atmosphere as HF, does this contribute to acid rain?
A: He hasn't seen any direct effect on acid rain.
Q: Regarding accumulation of fluoride that will occur in the Great Salt Lake.
A: The proportion will be related to evaporation. The Great Salt Lake currently has 1.8ppm, depending on the area.
Q: Cooking with fluoridation, can higher fluoridation concentration be produced when cooking?
A: Yes, higher concentrations of fluoride exist in fluoridated vs. non-fluoridated areas.
Q: Where does the fluoride for water come from?
A: One place is industries collecting fluoride from their stacks. This was confirmed by a fellow researcher in the audience. (Ariel?)
Q: Air emissions - more problematic?
A: Logan's air has about 0.2ppb. At 1ppb in air plants become injured. Interjected question regarding which is more toxic, air or water?
A: We can't say one is more toxic. Fluoride in air is normally HF, which is readily taken up into the body. Again, one has to look at total intake of fluorine over time.
Q: Agenda in Washington to fluoridate the population?
A: He doesn't subscribe to conspiracy theories. He feels that the people who are proponents are sincere in their belief that fluoridation is good, just as he is sincere in his belief that all people should not be subjected to fluoridation if they don't want it.
Q: Toxicity
A: Fluorine is one of the most phytotoxic25 compounds. [Diplomatic refusal to comment on animal life and humans.]
Q: Accumulation in gardens and fruit trees
A: If it (fluoride) is in the soil, there is not much change. If you sprinkle your gardens, you'll get more, as seen in the slides.
Q: Why milk so low?
A: Most fluoride in the animal goes out through the urine or accumulates in the bones. Loud declaration from USU faculty member in back regarding additional, uncontrolled amounts of fluoride in processed foods, soda, juice, etc. "You can't tell me as a chemist that I won't exceed 2ppm." (Direct quote)
A: "That may be a problem." [lots of chuckles] Q/
A: Cows with teeth not affected vs. developing. Adult could have a problem with osteoporosis.26
Q: over a lifetime. what are the effects?
A: Again it depends on the individual, their diet, the total amount of fluoride, not just in water, but in the entire diet.
Q: Is fluoridated water going to overrun the capacity of soil to absorb and bind fluoride?
A: In some soils, 40% of the soil is CaCO3 - there is a huge reservoir of calcium. I do see a problem if a plant is exposed directly to the fluoridated water. Remark: In the Journal of the American Dental Association - article that systemic fluoridation is not really beneficial.
A: [.]27
Q: Lay people's interpretation
A: When I lived in Salt Lake county, the president of the University of Utah made bad comments about me and called all anti-fluoridation scientists quacks.
Q: Congress and the EPA on silicofluorides.
A: As far as he knows, there have been no studies on silicofluorides.
Q: "Is fluoride an accumulative poison?"
A: That depends on [the total amount ingested over time.]28
Q: Regarding trace heavy metals (Pb, As, 29 etc.) in silicofluorides.
A: Doesn't know "It should be easy to analyze"
Q:30 If Logan fluoridated, the US average for food is 0.2- 2.0ppm, what effect if adding 1ppm to water?
A: [Depends on what you eat and drink over time.]
Q: Fluorosis in China & India
A: I don't recall figures off my head. It's serious in developing countries. In China, for example, it's not just what is in the water. The poor in many regions have a habit of cooking corn over a coal stove to dry the corn. The fumes from the coal are high in fluoride and accumulate in the dried corn. This causes fluorosis, some quite severe.
Q: Can normal water filters remove fluoride from the water?
A: No. Reverse osmosis31 or ion exchange column can take out some. A simple filter can't take it out.

End Notes

1 To quote from the web site for the ISFR journal's web site (http://www.fluoride-journal.com)
The International Society for Fluoride Research was founded in 1966 with the purpose of advancement of research and dissemination of knowledge, pertaining to the biological and other effects of fluoride on animal, plant and human life. ISFR publishes quarterly reports in FLUORIDE, on the biological, chemical, ecological, industrial, toxicological and clinical aspects of inorganic and organic fluoride compounds.
If you can stomach raw, unadulterated studies and abstracts, this site is a nice read. It turned my head around 180° on this issue.
2 My wife, who grew up in Pocatello, recounted afterwards the problems in the Poctalello, Idaho area due to fluoride pollution from Simplot and FMC. There were a large number of law suits brought against these two companies because of the pollution. Neighboring ranchers and dairy farmers were the hardest hit. The details that Dr. Miller gave concerning the steel plants in Utah county closely mirror the experience in Bannock and Power counties in Idaho.
3 This is why the argument "fluoride is already in our water" doesn't hold water. Very little of the fluorine from CaF2 in the water is taken up by the body. Some ninety percent of the fluorine from NaF (sodium fluoride), however, is taken up by the body. Dr. Miller did not know off the top of his head what the uptake ratio for fluorosilicates is. I've not seen any numbers on this either.
4 ppb = parts per billion (0.001ppm)
5 Magnesium is a chemical sister to calcium, both in column IIa of the periodic table. It behaves in a similar manner as calcium.
6 I couldn't type fast enough to get down which plant.
7 Sprinkler irrigation
8 It should be noted that these plant concentrations are dry weight. Plants are typically 90% water.
9 The stoichiometry is probably wrong as I was trying to type extra fast. Dr. Miller didn't dwell on this slide as he knew that it would lose most of the attendees.
10 This is an answer to the comment made on the K-Talk show this morning (13 Oct 2000) with Rosemary Miniveri.
11 fluorine
12 Calculations determined using Henderson-Hasselbach equation assuming a pK of 5.8.
13 1mM (milimolar) is about 19ppm
14 When asked about the high concentration, Dr. Miller reminded that this high of concentration in the organelles happens even at the low concentrations outside the cell wall, because fluoride accumulates in the organelles.
15 These are numbers from the National Academy of Science.
16 These numbers are from the National Academy of Science
17 When asked about this again, Dr. Miller cited a report of an elderly woman in Great Britain who developed severe fluorosis from the tea that she always drank. [I didn't get the cite down.] He noted that she drank a lot of tea.
18 They didn't do any studies themselves. They only read other people's reports.
19 Range 48-65% is 95% confidence level.
20 A man (later identified as one of the primary drivers behind fluoridation in Logan) spoke up loudly at this point and stated that most of the fluorosis can't be seen, which was contradicted by the title of the table.
21 More fluoride, more fractures.
22 Queensland, Australia
23 I didn't record all of the questions. For example, the questions to try to pin Dr. Miller down weren't recorded as I didn't find them all that interesting.
24 Referring to the picture of the boy in Idaho if I understood correctly.
25 Toxic to plants.
26 I had a hard time deciphering what was the question and answer from my notes.
27 My notes didn't record his reply.
28 He repeated what he had stated before regarding total diet over time.
29 Pb=lead As=arsenic
30 The question from my notes was a little garbled.
31 My wife's doing some research on filters. Even the best claims only 90% removal; claims are often a little high. To get 99% removal two would have to be placed in series. This may have adverse effects on efficiency and/or longevity of one or both filters.