From: owner-andina-digest@lists.xmission.com (andina-digest) To: andina-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: andina-digest V1 #3 Reply-To: andina-digest Sender: owner-andina-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-andina-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk andina-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:24:24 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) testing 123 I guess some changes in the majordomo andina@lists.xmission.com andina@xmission.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:44:57 -0800 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanaku culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of present day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcomed them. And we all know what Wiracocha did... Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:29:07 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!! Manuel. >Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanaku >culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure >as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure >emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of present >day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcomed >them. And we all know what Wiracocha did... > >Marcelo > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:26:14 -0800 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA > So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like > slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!! > Manuel. >=20 Yes, Wiracocha... or the Spaniards became slave drivers, among other = things. Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:43:32 -0400 From: Joel Flores Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA May be because they do not know a lot about wiracocha Joel >So that why,Arak Pacha,talk about Wiracocha like >slavedrivers for indian people???I am not sure!! >Manuel. > > >>Wiracocha is the mythical figure of the Creator and comes from the Tiwanak= u >>culture in Bolivia. As the Inca culture followed they adopted this figure >>as well. Legend has it that Wiracocha would come back, a bearded figure >>emerging from the ocean. When the Spaniards arrived to the coast of presen= t >>day Ecuador, the Incas believe the prophecy had been fulfilled and welcome= d >>them. And we all know what Wiracocha did... >> >>Marcelo >> >>- >> >> >> > > >- =89=F0 LC MANAGEMENT & CONSULTING =D0=89 rue des pretres st-severin, 4 F-75005 PARIS (FRANCE) phone : + 33 1 432 581 46 fax : + 33 1 432 504 37 lcmgmt@geocities.com j.flores@hol.fr - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:51:50 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) WIRACOCHA Who?,Arak Pacha or the indian people??? Manuel. ======================================================= May be because they do not know a lot about wiracocha Joel - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:30:44 +0000 From: "Jim Low" Subject: (andina) Charango Tutor I have been trying to get hold of a copy of Jorge Laura's charango tutor for the past two years without success. When Rumilliajta were in London on tour in December Jorge told me that he had not been able find any remaining copies and his original publisher is no longer able to do any reprints. Is anyone willing to sell me their copy of book and tape second hand or make copies of them for me? By the way I understand that Jorge has written a second book and may still be looking for help in publishing it. If any one on the list might be able to help please let me know and I will pass on details to him. Plesae contact me directly by email at jglow@easynet.co.uk on these matters rather than through the list. Jim Low - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 19:00:06 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) peruvian restaurant in Utah Yeeesssss!!!!in few weeks a new restaurant will open in Utah,and my group will play maybe twise a month. The restaurant name will be INKANTATION. UUMMHH!!!! TALLARIN SALTADO CEBICHE SOPA DE CAMARONES MUSICA... Manuel. ====================================================================== ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS FROM RUMILLAJTA AND PANOZO http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403 USA. 801-627-5613 ====================================================================== - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:29:43 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) QUENA PROFESIONAL I have my own opinion about quena profesional,I would like hear other opinion. For me, a profesional quena should be: - -IN GOOD TUNE - -THE TONE,DEPEND IN THE PLAYER,FOR SOME PLAYER THE TONE OF MY QUENA COULD BE BAD,FOR OTHERS IDEAL. - -REACH 3 OCTAVE HIGH EASILY,(E-D,ETC) - -HOW THE QUENA LOOK LIKE,IS NOT IMPORTANT IT ALL. Any others opinions?? thanks. Manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:40:39 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Hutten Subject: Re: (andina) QUENA PROFESIONAL > For me, a profesional quena should be: > > -IN GOOD TUNE This should be an obvious thing, but it's not - between me and the other member of the duo I play with, we have five or six quenas, and no two of them are in perfect tune with each other. You can vary the pitch of a quena quite a bit by changing your emboucher, but this isn't easy. We play a quena duet called Destino, but when we recorded it recently in the studio we ended up having to record the two parts seperately using the same quena. Frustrating... - -Rob - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:53:23 -0500 From: jewama@skorch.com Subject: Re: (andina) QUENA PROFESIONAL I am not sure what it meant by a professional quena. How many classes of quena could there be? I think sometimes that a "quena profesional" is just a salesman's pitch. In any case, a very nice quena should definitely be in tune with itself, even if it is not completely in tune with other quenas. Of course, the more in tune it is with other quenas, the better (and the happier we are!) I agree, too, that a good quena should be able to reach the high octaves easily. Finally, good looks don't help the sound of the quena, but ideally I would want a quena that not only sounds nice, but that looks wonderful, too! Any comments? - -jewama - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:12:13 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) Peruvian Restaurant in Utah. Tomorrow wesnesday is the private opening,but after tomorrow is for general public,saturday we are going be playing,from 6 pm to 9 pm. The address is 159 South Main phone is 801-533-2722 thanks. Manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 07:58:22 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) Yes,in Salt Lake City. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part South Main in SLC? Ozzy __ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:58:08 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) quena octave?? Hi,I wonder why in a quena(some)when you play first and second octave the tune is okay,but if you play the thirth the tune is not good. I that normal or the quena is not good?? thanks. Manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:31:17 +1100 From: "Ken Webster" Subject: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply >>> 03/17 7:58 am >>> >Hi,I wonder why in a quena(some)when you play first and second >octave >the tune is okay,but if you play the thirth the tune is not good. >I that normal or the quena is not good?? >thanks. >Manuel. Hi Manuel I=27m not sure if you mean intonation (accurate tuning) also I haven=27t had a lot of experience with the third octave but have gained some = understanding of a few principles regarding the tuning of flutes. So the following is intended more as a discussion and I am interested in hearing other opinions on the matter. With flutes intonation depends upon the position and size of finger holes. If you take two quenas, identical except one has large holes closer to the instruments foot. Both instruments may be in tune for the first = octave. In higher octaves however the quena with large holes will play sharper. Interestingly most tourist imports I=27ve seen have very large finger holes with the F=23 hole at about the middle of the instrument while the few professional instruments I=27ve come across have much smaller holes placed higher on the instrument. Obviously the thumb hole position and size is of great importance for the third octave. If your quena plays increasingly sharp as you go up the third octave but only for notes where the thumb hole is open you may be able to improve things as follows : Fill the thumb hole and re drill as a smaller hole closer to the notch = end. I have found similar adjustments need only be small (1mm or so). Usually the upper edge (closest to the notch end) of the new hole should not move much at all providing this hole was in tune at the lower end of its octave range and the change in size is not too great. I don=27t know of any way to calculate hole position and size so I find it best to drill a small hole, then gradually enlarge it until the = instrument plays in tune. If your quena plays increasingly sharp as you go up the third octave regardless of whether the thumb hole is open or not. Then you will probably find the second octave is also sharp but perhaps not=20 seriously so. This would suggest all the finger holes are a little too large. You may be able to improve this on a wood or bamboo instrument by adding varnish or the thicker sanding sealer to the lower and side edges of the finger holes. This would close the holes in a little and center them slightly higher to compensate for their smaller size. In this intonation in the first octave is maintained while lowering the higher octaves. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:48:56 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply Hi,let me give you a example: I am playing the note D,first and second octave are easy. In the thirth octave I believe you must cover only the hole of C and also the thumb, and blow hard,then I get the thirth octave of D,I am not happy with this one,maybe the practice will give me the perfect thirth octave,I don't know. Maybe you can try it the octave(3th)how I discribed above and let us know. thanks. Manuel. >>>> 03/17 7:58 am >>> >>Hi,I wonder why in a quena(some)when you play first and second >>octave >>the tune is okay,but if you play the thirth the tune is not good. >>I that normal or the quena is not good?? >>thanks. >>Manuel. > > > >Hi Manuel > >I'm not sure if you mean intonation (accurate tuning) also I haven't >had a lot of experience with the third octave but have gained some understanding of a few principles regarding the tuning of flutes. > >So the following is intended more as a discussion and I am interested >in hearing other opinions on the matter. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:23:06 -0500 From: "David M. Sonntag" Subject: (andina) Escala musical--was quena octaves >Hi,let me give you a example: > >I am playing the note D,first and second octave are easy. >In the thirth octave I believe you must cover only the >hole of C and also the thumb, and blow hard,then I get the >thirth octave of D,I am not happy with this one,maybe the >practice will give me the perfect thirth octave,I don't know. >Maybe you can try it the octave(3th)how I discribed above >and let us know. >thanks. >Manuel. Hola Cumpa: Wow, te crees quenista? Parece que tu conjunto falta a un verdadero quenista, pero que sea potolo... Debes de comer mas arroz con pollo... je, je. Of all the quenas that I have from South America, they all have a pretty ragged 3rd octave D, using the fingering you detail here. By ragged, I mean a tendency to blow flat. And at such a high note, embouchre tighter than um, (substitute your own allegory), it's almost impossible to adjust the pitch up. I don't say this to brag, but the only quena that I can play a decent 3rd octave D on is one that I made to my own measure. I have spoken with other quenistas who agree that the 3rd octave seems the most susceptible to individual variations in embouchre style and anatomy. Speaking of "la escala musical," I just read a very interesting bit in William Sullivan's THE SECRET OF THE INCAS. I doubt that there's a more insightful tome on andean mythology than his. Anyway, pp 337-339, he is talking about comparisons between andean cosmology, how they tied many of their rituals and myths to the stars. I'll just quote a few interesting passages: There is a Chinese saying that 'the calendar and the pitch pipes have such a close fit that you could not slip a hair between them...' like the Chinese pipes, the Andean panpipe is tuned to a pentatonic scale. Andean thought is shot through with 'quint-essence': five Suns, five steps on the pyramid, five pairs of mummified Emperors in the Temple of the Sun, five notes in the scale... Scale. The word comes from the Latin for "ladder" or "stairs," expressing the ascending stages of musical transport as effortlessly as the stairway to the stars...this teaching may stretch even farther back in time than anyone yet suspects--its traces can still be found in medieval musicology as well...The names of the Western seven-tone musical scale are Latin mnemonics for components of the "scale" of the organization of the cosmos, a scheme already ancient in Dante's time: DO DOminus "The Lord, God" RE REgina caelum "The Queen of Heaven" (the moon) MI MIcrocosmos "The Microcosm" (Earth) FA FAta "Planets/Fates" SOL SOL "The Sun" LA via LActea "The Milky Way" SI SIdera "[All] Stars" DO DOminus "The Lord, God" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So when you try to hit the third octave D, you're really shooting for the moon! Un abrazo pa' todos, Dave 5' DAVE SONNTAG |||||||||||| PhD Program, Toxicology. U of Cincinnati GATNNOS EVAD 5' (513) 751-8047 (FAX) 558-4397 PGP Key: http://w3.one.net/~sonntag/davekey.asc - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:03:26 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) Escala musical--was quena octaves No creas,ya me llaman "potolin"posible en unos meses me llamaran "potolon". Oye y tu te crees Nostradamus con eso de las estrellas y la luna??? jaaa!! ====================== So!!!I guess the thirth octave is almost imposible to get it clean?? How you said,I can only get a flat 3th D. Maybe the best thing to do is to make my own quena. Manuel. > >Of all the quenas that I have from South America, they all have a >pretty ragged 3rd octave D, using the fingering you detail here. >By ragged, I mean a tendency to blow flat. And at such a high >n - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 13:30:12 -0500 From: "David M. Sonntag" Subject: Re: (andina) Escala musical--was quena octaves >No creas,ya me llaman "potolin"posible en unos meses me >llamaran "potolon". >Oye y tu te crees Nostradamus con eso de las estrellas y la luna??? >jaaa!! No es cosa de Nostradamus, solo que fue un hecho de interes historico que el origen de los nombres de la "escala" viniesen desde el "firmamento." Ya sabemos que en el cielo mas alto, los angeles tocan musica andina. Chaufa, Dave 5' DAVE SONNTAG |||||||||||| PhD Program, Toxicology. U of Cincinnati GATNNOS EVAD 5' (513) 751-8047 (FAX) 558-4397 PGP Key: http://w3.one.net/~sonntag/davekey.asc - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:06:00 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) Fw: Oiling bamboo instruments >> From: Chris Rohrer >> To: andina@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Oiling bamboo instruments >> Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 10:03 AM >> >> Last fall there was some discussion about oiling methods and the best >types >> of oil to use to preserve bamboo instruments. Marcelo recommended lemon >> oil. Dave S recommended almond oil. Here are a couple follow-up >> questions: >> >> Is the lemon oil your regular lemon furniture oil, e.g. Formby's? >> >> Almond extract is one of those substances whose taste and smell I can't >> stand in quantity, though I like almonds themselves (the licorice/anise >> flavor is another-- your bottles of Amaretto, ouzo, and anisette are safe >> in my house). Does almond oil have a strong almond flavor that I might >> find distasteful? If so, does it go away after awhile? >> >> Also, I'm always looking for words and sheet music, for even the standard >> tunes that everyone else but me knows by heart. I'm probably the only >> person on the list without a notebook full of songs. I can crib from >liner >> notes and pick out words by ear, but my Spanish isn't so great (neither >is >> my English when it comes to transcribing lyrics-- I thought for years >that >> Hendrix was saying, "... 'scuse me while I kiss this guy..." in Purple >> Haze). Obviously, translations would be helpful, too. I don't have much >> to offer for barter in return. I have a transcription of "Llaqui Antara" >> by Incantation that I'll try to remember to scan and post. I have a cute >> Bolivian zampona method with a funky notation system (not far removed >from >> the notation on the paper insert that comes with Hohner harmonicas) that >I >> can make available to anyone interested. >> >> Thanks in advance for all help. >> >> **************************************************************** >> Chris Rohrer >> Senior Reclamation Specialist >> Abandoned Mine Reclamation Program >> Utah Division of Oil, Gas & Mining >> (801) 538-5322 >> http://www.nr.state.ut.us/OGM/amrpage.htm >> The usual disclaimers.... > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:47:59 -0800 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: Re: (andina) Fw: Oiling bamboo instruments >> Is the lemon oil your regular lemon furniture oil, e.g. Formby's? I have used regular lemon furniture oil. The smell is pretty strong at first but it will completely disappear in a few weeks. I have not used almond oil. Linseed oil is one a lot of people like to use but it turns rancid and the smell will last for months. >> Also, I'm always looking for words and sheet music, for even the standard >> tunes that everyone else but me knows by heart. I think you would have better luck if you were hiking through the Andes and stopped at some thatched roof dwelling and asked for hot water. Seriously though, you could ask for specific tunes and someone here in the list may just have it. Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:00:29 +1100 From: "Ken Webster" Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply - Reply Ken Webster websterk=40lic.gov.au Hi Manuel I tried D,3 briefly over the weekend. My parents are visiting so could not really investigate it at length. what I found is that of four quenas only one plays D,3 on pitch. This is a homemade PVC quena with which I have made no attempt to tune the third octave. So by fortunate accident rather than design. My worst quena is a tourist instrument from Otavalo which is about 50 cents sharp for octave 1 and 2 but a little flat on D,3=20 (when I manage to hit the note at all). A wooden Taki I have on loan plays D,3 about 20 cents flat while my bamboo Aymara professional is about 30 cents flat. I have never seriously played into the third octave so probably practice = would improve things especially the tonal quality of the note. Well lets see what are the differences between these instruments. The PVC quena has a large constant bore, no foot plate, medium sized = finger holes and a =22V=22 notch. The others all have a =22U=22 notch. The Taki bore and finger holes are small but I don=27t know yet if the = bore is tapered. The Otavalo and Ayamra quenas have a medium tapered bore with large finger = holes. I wonder If it has something to do with bore taper or the absent foot = plate of the PVC quena. Third octave intonation is going to be an interesting project for me = eventually. Bye >Hi,let me give you a example: >I am playing the note D,first and second octave are easy. >In the thirth octave I believe you must cover only the >hole of C and also the thumb, and blow hard,then I get the >thirth octave of D,I am not happy with this one,maybe the=20 >practice will give me the perfect thirth octave,I don=27t know. >Maybe you can try it the octave(3th)how I discribed above >and let us know. >thanks. >Manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:23:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Capt David M. Sonntag USAF BSC" Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply - Reply > I have never seriously played into the third octave so probably practice would > improve things especially the tonal quality of the note. > > Well lets see what are the differences between these instruments. > The PVC quena has a large constant bore, no foot plate, medium sized finger > holes and a "V" notch. > > The others all have a "U" notch. > The Taki bore and finger holes are small but I don't know yet if the bore is tapered. > The Otavalo and Ayamra quenas have a medium tapered bore with large finger holes. > > I wonder If it has something to do with bore taper or the absent foot plate of the PVC quena. > Third octave intonation is going to be an interesting project for me eventually. > The quena I have that hits a good D, also has a "V" notch. I believe that the notch would have more effect than the foot plate. Finger holes might have something to do. I believe from having made a few quenas that the larger the upper three holes are, the easier the 3rd octave will be to get. Course I could be wrong, since I haven't made a quena in over three years. Hard to believe, eh Manuel? Chaufa, Dave - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:32:23 +1100 From: "Ken Webster" Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply - Reply - Reply Hi Andinos Now this is getting interesting=21 One big advantage of PVC is in being able to experiment. For example I use 3 sections taped together ( notch, Upper and lower = finger holes).=20 This makes it easy to change just one thing and see what happens. So If I have time I will check out some old notch sections and see if = =22V=22 or =22U=22 notches make intonation difference. As Dave suggests the finger holes are worth looking at. The Taki has a = rather small F=23 hole while D is a little bigger and C bigger again. This = increases finger stretch but the second octave intonation is real good while D,3 is 20 = cents flat. On my PVC the F=23 is large with D smaller and C smaller again. This reduces finger stretch but F=23,2 is sharp and D,3 is right on pitch. I=27ve been working on second octave intonation but still have a little = way to go. Anyway I will sure keep an eye on just what is happening in the third = octave as I continue developing my PVC quena design. >The quena I have that hits a good D, also has a =22V=22 notch. I believe >that the notch would have more effect than the foot plate. Finger holes >might have something to do. I believe from having made a few quenas >that the larger the upper three holes are, the easier the 3rd octave >will be to get. Course I could be wrong, since I haven=27t made a quena >in over three years. Hard to believe, eh Manuel? >Chaufa, >Dave - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:00:39 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? Hi,I just talked with a andean musician in Miami,he was telling me that his quena don't get the ideal tone,pitch,etc if he don't play the quena for a least 10 15 minutes before the practice or the performance,I remember when we was almost ready to play in public David Sonntag used to walk and play the quena different melodies and Fernando said to me,tell the gringo to be quiet,,jeje,but now I understand why that GRINGO played the quena before the performance.(gringo diablo!!). Anyway,I remember last december playing in the mall for 5 hours, my quena was so easy to octave it,because the moist and the temperature was the ideal,but with PVC must be different history. All the Best!. manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:19:35 +1100 From: "Ken Webster" Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply Ken Webster websterk=40lic.gov.au Hi Manuel This is a well known phenomenon of flutes even those silver and gold tube things that cost an arm and a leg and more. The Flute list had an extensive discussion on just this topic some months ago. Apart from the musician warming up the instrument must be also but its not just temperature alone. If it were temperature then=20 the flute would go slightly flat as it warms up as sound travels slower in less dense air. In fact the opposite occurs it goes sharp. Now I don=27t know for sure but I think the effect is due to increased humidity in the tube. The moisture increases the density of the air column in the tube which transmits the sound pressure waves more freely therefore increases speed and pitch with it. For this reason I try to practice at least half an hour well before playing in public and breath down the quena to warm it up just before playing. This is of course not as good as actually playing but it certainly helps a lot. PVC instruments are definatly affected in this way too and it is something to take into account when tuning. >>> 03/23 3:00 pm >>> >Hi,I just talked with a andean musician in Miami,he was telling me >that his quena don=27t get the ideal tone,pitch,etc if he don=27t play >the quena for a least 10 15 minutes before the practice or the >performance,I remember when we was almost ready to play in public >David Sonntag used to walk and play the quena different melodies >and Fernando said to me,tell the gringo to be quiet,,jeje,but now >I understand why that GRINGO played the quena before the=20 >performance.(gringo diablo=21=21). >Anyway,I remember last december playing in the mall >for 5 hours, my quena was so easy to octave it,because the moist >and the temperature was the ideal,but with PVC must be different >history. >All the Best=21. >manuel. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:34:34 -0800 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? V-shaped notch, U-shaped notch, bore, length, diameter of holes, = spacing, all are factors in how well tuned a quena will be. What we need is = someone with a spectrum analyzer to run some tests as all these factors are = varied. I am going to go out on a limb and talk about elementary physics of = sound, and so if anyone has anything to add to this, or correct, it would be = great. Sound has two components, frequency and amplitude. The frequency = determines the note or pitch, and the amplitude determines the volume. Furthermore, = the frequency can be seen as having two components, a fundamental frequency and harmonic component. A fundamental frequency is the one with the = highest amplitude. The harmonic component is made of higher frequencies with = lesser amplitude. If I remember correctly, a second harmonic is half the = amplitude of the fundamental frequency, and so on till the higher frequencies are practically inaudible. It is the harmonic component that determines the quality of the note or timbre. Talking specifically about the quena, the fundamental frequency is = determined by the length between the notch and the edge of the hole (or the end of = the quena if all the holes are covered). The amplitude is given by the force in the air stream, and the diameter of the quena. The quality of the = sound, that is the harmonic component, is determined by the thickness of the = wall, its fribrous structure, the bore, and the size of the holes. This = actually very simplified. Looking at the complexities of sound reproduction we = will see that the amplitude is also affected by the thickness of the wall and its fribrous structure, as well as the diameter of the holes, that is=20 because the harmonic content adds to the overall sound of the = instrument. It seems to me that all this complicated even more so because wind = instruments do not reproduce sound like string instruments, where higher notes are achieved by shorter and thinner strings. I think wind instruments rely = on aplifying certain harmonic components to produce higher pitches, and = thus the need for mixed fingerings. On the quena this does not seem to be an issue until one reaches the third octave. Being that the construction of the quena is completely empiric, no one has been able to perfect the = quena so it is made in some consistent way. At last we have the human factor, that of the player. This is equally = complex as the quena does not have a mouth piece, and therefore the player's = mouth becomes the instrument's mouth piece. The size and shape of the mouth, = how the player positions the lips and blows, these all affect not only the quality of the sound but the pitch as well. I have personally known = people who can get a slightly higher pitch out of my quena than I do. If we = think this way then we may realize that the maker of the quena, who may not necessarily be a musician, may have a static way of blowing and so makes the quenas at a perfect pitch according to him. A musician may produce a different pitch and find that the quena is not that great, or maybe = better than the maker thought. I am reminded of an anectdote I heard from Lucho Cavour (Ernesto = Cavour's brother). I was in his shop some ten years ago, talking about quenas, = when a young man from some well known local band walked in. He was in the = search of the perfect quena (sound familiar?) and Lucho said the following. = Many years earlier, during the days when Los Jairas were the hottest Bolivian = group, a bunch of musicians had gathered at someone's house; among them was "El Gringo," the famed quena player from Los Jairas. As it turned out he did not has quena with him, but the host had one hanging on the wall, a very pretty carved quena... of the tourist type that are not made for = playing. Yet, El Gringo picked it up and got the greatest sound out of it. = Lucho's words to this young man were "there is no such thing as the perfect = quena, you are the perfect quena inside yourself." And so with that I shall leave you all to meditate on this subject and perhaps go back to practicing in search of the perfect quena withing yourselves. Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:19:16 +1100 From: "Ken Webster" Subject: Re: (andina) quena octave?? - Reply Hi Marcelo Thanks for your long post. >And so with that I shall leave you all to meditate on this subject and >perhaps go back to practicing in search of the perfect quena within >yourselves. Your point is well taken, early on it became obvious to me that the quena is an instrument that demands one pour out his heart and soul to breath life into the music. If we can=27t do that it just = doesn=27t work at all, and what would be the point. I may never play like =22El Gringo,=22 after all in Bathurst Australia = I=27m all alone in this endeavor. It may seem from all this talk that I search for the perfect quena, I know it does not exist. I am in fact approaching the whole thing from two directions at once. Mostly playing the best I can but also making the best instrument I can. For this reason I=27m always very interested in peoples ideas and = impressions of what makes a good quena. It helps me improve in that direction at least. Perhaps one day I will be able to travel to the Andes and really learn to play. All the best from this silly gringo. Ken Webster websterk=40lic.gov.au - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:43:34 -0700 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) someone know this group?? I attended an art festival this past weekend and listened to a group called CH'UWA YACU BOLIVIA. This was some of the most beautiful and compelling music I have ever heard. The founder of this group is Javier Zapata and is from Cochabamba. I feel this group really needs to be acknowleged as a leader in spreading the Bolivian culture all over the world. Thank You, Dan cobra232@aol.com ============================================== Manuel. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 11:38:52 -0800 From: "Chris Rohrer" Subject: (andina) Re: Oiling bamboo instruments, continued I asked and Marcelo replied... > >> Also, I'm always looking for words and sheet music, for even the standard > >> tunes that everyone else but me knows by heart. > > I think you would have better luck if you were hiking through the Andes > and stopped at some thatched roof dwelling and asked for hot water. > Seriously though, you could ask for specific tunes and someone here in > the list may just have it. > Okay-- here are a few specific titles: Mama India, Mama Criso, Ojos azules, Papel de plata, Carnavalito humahuaqueno, Llorando se fue, El condor pasa, Siempre he de adorarte, Viva mi patria Bolivia, Los senors de potosi... Just a few of the chestnuts. Gracias en antemano. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:52:13 -0700 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: (andina) Ojos Azules (sikus) I finally got around to answering the request for this tune, and a couple of others I know. The notation below is based on sikus with the shortest tube on the left (#1); the Arka (or 7) is the top line and the Ira (or 6) is the bottom line. The key referenced is based on E-minor sikus, but the numbers will allow you to play in a different key if your sikus are tuned differently. This tune has been recorded a zillion times and so there are many variations. The A-minor versions seems to be the most popular. OJOS AZULES (Wayno - Traditional - Am) 3---3---3---2---3 3---4 4 3---3---3 4---4---5 \ / \ / \ / 3 3 3 =20 3---3---3---2---3 3---4 4 3---3---3 4---4---5 \ / \ / \ / 3 3 3 =20 4---4---4---5 4 3 4 3---3---2 4---4---5 \ / \ / \ / \ / 5 3 3 3 =20 4---4---4---5 4 3 \ / \ / 5 3 =20 4 3---3---2 4---3---5 \ / \ / 3 3 Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:21:17 -0700 From: mvillacres@esri.com (Marcelo Villacres [ESRI-Redlands]) Subject: (andina) Mama Criso (sikus) MAMA CRISO (Tonada-Wayno - Yayo Jofre - Em) A 3---3---3---2 3---3---4 5 = = 5 / \ \ / \ = / \ 5---4---4---4---4 2---2 4---4---4 4---4 = 4 4 =20 (repeat A) B 4---4---4---3 =20 / \ / 5---4---4---4---3 4---4 =20 5---5---6 \ 6---6---6---5---4---6---6---5---4 =20 (repeat B) C 3---3---4 5 = = 5 / \ / \ = = / \ 2---2---2---2---2 2---2---2---2---2---2 4---4---4 = 4---4---4 4 =20 D 2---2---3 5 = = 5 / \ / \ = = / \ 1---1---1---1---1 1---1---1---1---1---1 4---4---4 = 4---4---4 4 =20 E 4---4---4---3 =20 / \ / 5---4---4---4---3 4---4 =20 5---5---6 | | 5---6 5---6 \ | |/ \ / \ 6|--6---6---5---4---6---6--5--4 | 6 = 6---6---6---6---6 | | (1st) (2nd) (repeat E) Marcelo - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:24:39 -0600 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: (andina) please tell me what do you think I puted a page with a progression for charango also I put a sound file(real audio) You must consider that this page is for biginners Please let me know what is good in this page and also what need to be improve. thanks. manuel. ================================== RUMILLAJTA ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403...801-627-5613 U.S.A. ================================== - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:26:25 -0600 From: mnavarro@mail.xmission.com Subject: Re: (andina) please tell me what do you think Sorry I forgot the URL. here is: http://www.xmission.com:80/~mnavarro/chords2.html At 02:24 PM 4/30/98 -0600, you wrote: >I puted a page with a progression for charango >also I put a sound file(real audio) >You must consider that this page is for biginners >Please let me know what is good in this page >and also what need to be improve. >thanks. >manuel. >================================== >RUMILLAJTA ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS >http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro >MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S >OGDEN.UTAH.84403...801-627-5613 >U.S.A. >================================== > > >- > > > ================================== RUMILLAJTA ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S OGDEN.UTAH.84403...801-627-5613 U.S.A. ================================== - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:23:33 -1000 From: Ernest Murphy Subject: Re: (andina) please tell me what do you think Hola, Manuel -- As a beginner, I think your progressions page is a great idea. I look forward to its completion. Thanks for putting it together. Ernest Murphy >I puted a page with a progression for charango >also I put a sound file(real audio) >You must consider that this page is for biginners >Please let me know what is good in this page >and also what need to be improve. >thanks. >manuel. >================================== >RUMILLAJTA ANDEAN WIND INSTRUMENTS >http://www.xmission.com/~mnavarro >MANUEL NAVARRO 960.E 4200.S >OGDEN.UTAH.84403...801-627-5613 >U.S.A. >================================== > > >- - - ------------------------------ End of andina-digest V1 #3 **************************