From: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com (buffy-digest) To: buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: buffy-digest V2 #45 Reply-To: buffy@xmission.com Sender: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-buffy-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk buffy-digest Tuesday, January 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 045 In this issue: BUFFY: Checked out the posting board... BUFFY: Toy Story reference in NKABOTFD Re: BUFFY: Character Question BUFFY: canadians Re: BUFFY: What's a 'hottie'? BUFFY: Lair of Buffy's update.... BUFFY: Request for missing digests BUFFY: Monkey Re: BUFFY: Angel? Re: BUFFY: More from Joss Re: BUFFY: What's a 'hottie'? Re: BUFFY: Nicky Brendon Re: BUFFY: canadians BUFFY: Dru BUFFY: Nick Brendon and Family BUFFY: I've seen both parts - but I won't spoil it for anyone BUFFY: Sarah Michelle Gellar (Keeping it Real) Re: BUFFY: More from Joss BUFFY: Ep. from 1/19 - Surprise Re: BUFFY: Nicky Brendon BUFFY: Ms. Calendar/Oz/Sex (Spoiler if you haven't seen S) BUFFY: SPOILERS - 2parter - wow BUFFY: Spoiler BUFFY: Tonight's ep - Innocence *HUGE SPOILERS* BUFFY: Dang you Joss! BUFFY: Part 2 SPOILERS --- How long? BUFFY: Innonence BUFFY: *less odd than they used to be* See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the buffy or buffy-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:54:15 -0600 From: Harold Hutchison Subject: BUFFY: Checked out the posting board... Folks, Spiler Space included, just in case... Just looked over the posting board, and the comments about this change in Angel haven't been positive, to say the least. In fact, I didn;t see one that complimented the change in Angel at all. Such gems as, "Fit it. Fix it now." "Say it ain't so!" Frankly, I agree. Joss wants problems between Buffy and Angel, have Angel pick up a cigarette habit. Maybe he listens to Rush Limbaugh. Maybe he's so short on blood he has to feed on a cute kitty cat or two. But not a totally evil SOB!! Talk about killing the goose who laid the golden egg... I want the GOOD Angel back, and I don't care if Joss has to make Ollie North the one who convinces the Romanis in order to do that. I may even be sending a letter... Harold Hutchison - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:49:05 -0500 From: Brian Taylor Subject: BUFFY: Toy Story reference in NKABOTFD I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but since one of my hobbies is picking out things in BtVS that refer to something the cast/crew has worked on before, this jumped right out at me. I'm not sure exactly when it happened, but when Willow and Xander are talking about their field trip in 6th grade, they keep saying "You're my favorite deputy!" which is one of the things Woody says in Toy Story when you pull his string. Still waiting for Oz to say "Maybe next time we can dance", Brian net_jedi@geocities.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:04:55 -0500 From: Mark Subject: Re: BUFFY: Character Question lrous@juno.com wrote: > Drucilla (Juliet Landau) the daughter of Martin Landau and Barbara Bain? > She looks a lot like Ms. Bain, only with Mr. Landau's darker coloring. > They were great on "Mission: Impossible" and I know they're cult > favorites from their work on "Space: 1999". Anyone out there in > Buffy-land know for sure? > > Len Juliet *is*, in fact the daughter of Martin Landau, whose only spouse of record is Barbara Bain, from whom he was divorced in 1993., though I myself don't see the resemblance. It seems probable, though I can't confirm for certain, that she is also Bain's daughter. She has one sister, Susan B. Landau, who is not an actress but a producer, and participated (interestingly) in the production of the 1992 film, "Bram Stoker's Dracula." I think, by the way, that it's "Drusilla" (with an s). Mark - -- markwithak@mindspring.com keeper of Willow's diffidence - ------------------------------------ "it could be me...it's not, though." - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:33:49 -0600 (CST) From: nichole carrette Subject: BUFFY: canadians HAve I posted this already? Sorry, my computer sucks. (no pun intended). Okay, so some Canadian (I think it was you, Elizabeth) said that they got the show on mondays. Can you tell me what station? cuz in Winnipeg, we only get it on YTV. I didn't know that any other stations were carrying it. nichole - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:59:49 EST From: Iocaste Subject: Re: BUFFY: What's a 'hottie'? In a message dated 98-01-20 17:29:24 EST, you write: << Buffy said something like "wake up and smell the hottie", according to the recently posted quote list. What's a hottie? I thought she was saying 'haughty', but that doesn't make much sense either. If this is some new slang, I guess I'm showing my age. Thanks in advance for any helpful replies. >> A "hottie" is a very attractive person -- as in, someone who is "hot." I don't remember that quote, but I do remember Xander calling Buffy a "hottie" in Welcome to the Hellmouth. Ann iocaste@aol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:06:36 EST From: TS Bear Subject: BUFFY: Lair of Buffy's update.... The Lair of Buffy is growing significantly! With the new "Quote Keeping" addition, more and more people are visiting daily! I just wanna say thank you all for the wonderful support and responses that I have recieved throughout the production of this website... I. Quote Keeping~ Quote keeping is going to be on a first come, first serve basis. I have had no problem with this so far. I have gotten all quotes requested from over the weekend up on my site, but from today through friday the quotes will not be posted until the weekend. (Being a full time student sucks!) Anyhoo, check out the Lair of Buffy (http://members.aol.com/TSBear/buffy.html) and check and see if you recieved your quote! II. Webring~ Ive gotten so many requests for the webring joining, that the HTML codes will not be sent out until Friday. By personalizing each code beforehand and sending them out, it would require me sitting down with a ton of time on my hands. Right now, this isnt something I have. So please be patient, and everything will be done by Friday night (hopefully)! Well, thats it for now. Again, I thank you all very much for all of your comments and suggestions, and please stop by and visit the Lair of Buffy real soon! =) ~Christine~TSBear@aol.com, slayerette@geocities.com "I mean, when a guy whips it out just say 'Hey! Don't whip it out.'" ~SMG on SNL "If i had a clone, I'd make out with myself...it was a joke." ~SMG on SNL "I am the bug man...coo coo cachoo." ~Xander WMLP2 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:45:46 -0500 (EST) From: sah Subject: BUFFY: Request for missing digests If anyone has any BUFFYFIC digests from November and December could you please contact me (offlist, please)? I have some of them (47, 60, 61, 65, 67, 68, 69) but would like the rest between number 43 and 79. XMission wasn't archiving during that time. Come to think of it, if you have any regular BUFFY digests from that period, I'd appreciate receiving those as well. We're missing volume 1, number 401 to volume 1, number 517 for that. Thanks, - --sah - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:15:31 EST From: Jillium5 Subject: BUFFY: Monkey if someone can tell me what Willow said in the dream sequence in french(don't worry about your spelling) I can translate it Jillium - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:55:15 PST From: "Black Fire" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Angel? >Hi, I'm really new to all this so please bear with me. In Australia they >have just aired "Angel", and I was wondering, how can he just stop being a >vampire? And how does the tattoo fit into it all? Angel never stopped being a vampire. He just stopped feeding off humans. As far as the tattoo is concerned, it's probably just a distinguishing characteristic. Although, it could have something to do with the curse. The Black Fire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:57:13 PST From: "Black Fire" Subject: Re: BUFFY: More from Joss >> in a couple of eps we're bringing Amy back > >Who was Amy? The invisible girl is coming back to terrorize Sunnydale. And probably try to kill Cordy again. The Black Fire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:23:39 EST From: RbSayre Subject: Re: BUFFY: What's a 'hottie'? In a message dated 98-01-20 17:29:38 EST, you write: << Buffy said something like "wake up and smell the hottie", according to the recently posted quote list. What's a hottie? >> Hottie= Keanu Reeves, Drew Barrymore, Marlon Brando (then not now), Audrey Hepburn, Brad Pitt, Gwyneth Paltrow, Norma Shearer, Robert Redford, Lisa Nicole Carson (okay that's my ally mcbeal reference), Leo DiCaprio... and of course the entire cast of BtVS are hotties. ;) basically slang for a beee-yoooo-tee-ful human being. peace, rick *because- the ziti!* -willow rosenberg struggling whatever, pop culture junkie, indigo girls fan, :) emoticon abuser keeper of random thoughts & delirium, gay tripper, buffy addict for life http://members.aol.com/rbsayre/rick.html *just suck up and be nice...* -ani difranco - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:03:38 PST From: "Black Fire" Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nicky Brendon >I read somewhere(prob. on the web site) that Nicky Brendon has a twin >brother. Does anyone know if they're identical? Or whaat he does? Cuz if >they are identical, then that opens up a whole lot of possibilities for >Xander on the show (re: evil twins, cloning). It's cheaper than special >effects. I heard that too. It would be pretty cool if they were to do an episode with him. >"You are what you are, beautiful death" Tom Cruise as the Vampire >Lestat (ps: what do you guys think of his being replaced with Daniel >Day-Lewis for the sequel?) OT: No way! Ralph Finnes as Lestat. Or better yet, Julian Sands (see Warlock). (I have an almost complete Vampire Chronicles dream cast) But I wish they'd just hurry up and make the bloody thing. The Black Fire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:04:42 From: Jeff Rohaly Subject: Re: BUFFY: canadians >Okay, so some Canadian (I think it was you, Elizabeth) said that they got >the show on mondays. Can you tell me what station? cuz in Winnipeg, we >only get it on YTV. It's not on any other network but a couple of independent stations in Ontario carry it. One is CHRO in Ottawa and another is CKVR ("The New VR") in Barrie, which is available on cable throughout southern Ontario. Jeff Rohaly rohaly@iaw.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:06:12 -0500 From: Metkulu Subject: BUFFY: Dru Yes her parents are Martin and Barbara Bain. Yesterday's ep was GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:19:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catmandu Subject: BUFFY: Nick Brendon and Family Yes, Nick does have a twin brother, Kelly..they are identical and live together in LA. As far as I know, Kelly doesn't act. They also have younger siblings. - -Cat ___________________________________________________________________________ "Between two evils, I always choose the one I haven't tried before." -Mae West - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:24:18 -0500 From: twofangs/randi spiegel Subject: BUFFY: I've seen both parts - but I won't spoil it for anyone Hi, I live in Toronto, where the *entire two-parter* was shown Monday night. I'm going nuts not being able to talk about it to anyone. Let me just say though...it's worth the wait. If *I* would have had to wait a whole 23 hours until the conclusion...I wouldn't have been able to function as a normal person at work today. Looking soooooo forward to everyone having seen *part 2*...and all your comments... Randi Toronto, Ontario, Canada Keeper Of Angel's Telephone Proud Member Of The Buffy Crew *what scares you most will set you free that's what the 'Angel' said to me* - Robyn Hitchcock - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:26:24 EST From: RWCandSMG Subject: BUFFY: Sarah Michelle Gellar (Keeping it Real) Hey all, I just put up my SMG page and was hoping that some of you could go check it out and tell me what you think. I would really appreciate it. The "biography" section needs some work if you have any usefull information. Thanks so much. Rich Chapman http://members.aol.com/~rwcandsmg/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:16:36 EST From: RayneFire Subject: Re: BUFFY: More from Joss In a message dated 98-01-20 19:01:57 EST, blackfire42@hotmail.com writes: << >> in a couple of eps we're bringing Amy back > >Who was Amy? The invisible girl is coming back to terrorize Sunnydale. And probably try to kill Cordy again. >> No, Marcie was the invisible girl! Amy was the in "The Witch". She was the blond trying out for cheerleading! Mom was the Witch...remember? :-) Rayne Keeper of Willow's Animal Slippers Keeper of Buffy's Stuffed Pig, Mr. Gordo Keeper of Spike's Trench Coat - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:02:35 -0500 From: Susan Foster Subject: BUFFY: Ep. from 1/19 - Surprise Okay, I loved this ep, for all the reasons previously mentioned by everyone else, so I won't go into that territory. I will mention something that really preyed on my mind. To me, certain characters displayed a lot of changes since they first appeared on Buffy. Okay, obviously, Drucilla was different, and I loved her all the more for it. I loved her new outfits. What hit me the most though, was Spike. He had some interesting sideways glances at Dru going on, which to me looked like he was a little wary of the strength he brought to her. I also saw him weakened, not only physically, but also in his menace. I saw him as a bully who has been given a good beating for the first time, and is unsure how to take it. Very interesting. Willow, to me, made the most growth from Welcome to the H*mouth/Harvest. No surprise there, she was displaying her change in such ep's as Halloween and RB. Tonight, though, she was a far cry from the girl who said she couldn't talk to boys. "I can usually make a few vowel sounds, and then I have to go away.". Go girl! I loved Buffy's dream, especially the part with the monkey. I remember most of my dreams, and they are just as trippy. I do wish in a way that I could have seen the dream of Buffy and Giles opening the office supply store in Vegas. Oh well. Gotta go! Innocence is on. - -- Susan Foster compgeek@gyral.com | DestructoGirl@msn.com | DestructoGrl@geocities.com *** " She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come." - Proverbs 31:25 *** - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:11:09 EST From: RbSayre Subject: Re: BUFFY: Nicky Brendon In a message dated 98-01-20 17:34:20 EST, ncarrett@callisto.uwinnipeg.ca writes: << I read somewhere(prob. on the web site) that Nicky Brendon has a twin brother. Does anyone know if they're identical? Or whaat he does? Cuz if they are identical, then that opens up a whole lot of possibilities for Xander on the show (re: evil twins, cloning). It's cheaper than special effects. >> Nick does have an identical twin- Kelly Brendon. They share a home together & for a while Kelly worked as a set dresser on BtVS. peace, rick *because- the ziti!* -willow rosenberg struggling whatever, pop culture junkie, ani difranco fan, :) emoticon abuser keeper of random thoughts & delirium, gay tripper, buffy addict for life http://members.aol.com/rbsayre/xander.html *i'm a pixie, i'm a paper doll, i'm a cartoon...* -ani difranco - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:43:56 EST From: Kiwi84x Subject: BUFFY: Ms. Calendar/Oz/Sex (Spoiler if you haven't seen S) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1) Okay, about Ms. Calendar, I just wanted to say that I'm a little sad and scared knowing that it's possible that Ms. Calendar might be killed in Innocence. What a frightening thought! I love Jenny, and she's wonderful, and what a great person to have an evil thing going on with, but I really don't want her to be killed. Sorry, that was something I had to write. 2) A little note, but I think Willow is too good for Oz. Oz is a funny and kind guy, but I just think Willow deserves more. 3) Another thing I couldn't resist putting, but we can't really be sure that Buffy and Angel had sex.....when they showed them there was no indication that they had had sex, but I'm not the one who should be saying this, and I'll probably be proven wrong in Innocence (I can just see Willow and Buffy talking about it), but I thought it was worth mentioning. P.S. Xander really has to admit what's going on with Cordelia and he soon. I think that's correct English, Cordelia and I therefore Cordelia and he, okay I am going to stop babbling now. -Toby Kiwi84x@aol.com Keeper of Willow's Ghost in Halloween, Piano Playing, Eyelashes, and Sarcasm Keeper of Cordelia's "Sometimes people are so busy listening, they don't hear a word I say" speech in Invisible Girl <--------wasn't that a great speech??? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:56:09 -0500 From: twofangs/randi spiegel Subject: BUFFY: SPOILERS - 2parter - wow Okay...Angel's character has a hell of a lot more to it now...which I find kinda cool...but I guess it's really the demon's personality? Or does the demon kinda warp whatever was in there before into the exact opposite...'cause really...the amazingly sweet Angel turned into the incredibly nasty and devious Angelus... Boy...kinda creepy to think that now we *really* know how Angelus drove Dru insane...how he was all ready to start killing off Buffy's friends and loved ones. As I said his character is more rich...and DB's acting skills are better used when he is *Angelus*...but when Buffy fell down on her bed crying, I felt tears in my eyes...amazing...a 30 year old woman crying at a tv show...but SMG sobbing is so affecting it's hard to keep away from your heart. I can't even imagine what her character would have been going through...she finally makes love with the one she loves...and that act of pure and complete happiness for him lifts the curse... I guess if it was me I'd try to think that it's amazing that I'd been a part of giving someone such complete bliss...but then...that would be obliterated by the sorrow and guilt and anger...of being the one to lift the curse, to have put friends - and the world - in danger...and to have the one you *gave yourself to* turn into a real jerk. Funny, Joss (being a man) really understood the female's fears of *the morning after....will he still respect me...did he just use me for sex...* - his "I'll call you" comment smarted. I just can't stand it...how will Jenny, (Janna?, Yanna?)I can't think of her gypsy name right now...put the curse back on Angelus? I loved when Buffy grabbed her by the throat and threw her on the table though...go Buffy!!!! Oh, and Willow seeing Xander and Cordy kissing...how horrible. Oz seems sweet...does everyone still think he's a werewolf...I really hope not...loved the way he asked Willow out...love the way he said he'd love to kiss Willow but in his fantasy she was *really* kissing *him* back. How will I stand watching BtVS knowing that Angleus is back...that he was such a creep to Buffy...that he showed her true love and bliss and horrible feelings of humiliation and stupidity and a pain in her heart that will never go away (it'll fade, but even if Angelus reverts back to Angel the pain will never completely go away) - all these emotions in the space of 24 hours. Good thing our slayer is strong...or she would go crazy... And if I thought my boyfriend could turn into a demon...I'd never have sex again...no way...no how. Randi Toronto, Ontario, Cananda Keeper Of Angel's Telephone Proud Member Of The Buffy Crew *what scares you most will set you free that what the 'Angel' said to me* - Robyn Hitchcock *like a ghost through a fog...like a charmed hour and a haunted song... and the 'Angel' of my dreams* - Stevie Nicks - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:06:10 -0500 From: Metkulu Subject: BUFFY: Spoiler S P o i l e r Just watched the second part. So Miss Calender was the betrayer. The only way she is going to redeem herself is to figure out how to give angel back his soul. At first I could not believe they were going to leave Angel this way, but it does make it more interesting. Gives Angel a better part then just kissing Buffy. I guess he will stay that way for a while. This will probably bring more tension between Spike and him. Since Dru loves that Angel is back. If Angel is restored then Buffy and him can never have a physical relationship, since it breaks the curse. Maybe a different curse is needed. What are you thoughts????? Great episode. I hope it continues. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:06:57 -0500 From: Susan Foster Subject: BUFFY: Tonight's ep - Innocence *HUGE SPOILERS* Okay, so I expected this episode to be emotional. I did not expect to have my heart ripped out, stomped on, cut into pieces, and then cry over the end. Did I like this ep.? BIG, HUGE, HUMONGOUS YES! Am I nearly crying? YES! S P A C E Okay, I was so darn impressed with DB. He really got into the evil side of Angel. He ripped into the lines with a vengeance. Never have I loved his preformance more than I did tonight. I especially loved his reteaming with Spike and Dru. Spike was awesome beyond belief. Lovely jealousy bit. I still would love to have the good Angel back, but the bad one ain't half bad (he's all bad). SMG was ... perfect. Nothing more to be said. Every single person in tonight's ep was perfect. Giles. Hurting. Needs hug. Must find him. Okay, when they killed the first guy in the mall, was anyone else thinking "Beuller......Beuller"? He just reminded me of that teacher for some reason. Okay, that's all for now. Must wipe the tears away, and rewatch. - -- Susan Foster compgeek@gyral.com | DestructoGirl@msn.com | DestructoGrl@geocities.com *** " She is clothed with strength and dignity; she can laugh at the days to come." - Proverbs 31:25 *** - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:08:27 -0700 From: "Jason L. Rasmussen" Subject: BUFFY: Dang you Joss! S P O I L E R S P O I L E R S P O I L E R Man oh man, never have I been so crazed over an episode. By far this two part series is the best yet! I have seen all the episodes (except for the first season "Angel" episode) and this is the best written best acted episode combo yet! I loved that Willow finally found Oz and they are getting hooked up. He adds a lot to the show! And how she tells off Xander occassionally now. If he is so stupid to not realize how much Willow "loved" him then he deserves to be dumped on by her. And I wish that Cordy and Xander finally announced their feelings to the group. True, it was cute at first how they would bicker and then run off somewhere together but now it is getting old. I was freaked out when I found out that Angel had lost his soul. I did realize however that if Angel was the bad guy all along he would have been a cool bad guy (like he was in today's episode). And lastly, I am kinda glad that even Giles said for the other teacher (can't remember her name right off the top of my head) to get out when Buffy said to. It showed that he supports the slayer 100% and that after finding out that she was there to watch Buffy that she couldn't be trusted.. Anyhow, I must say, best episode yet! Keep up the good work!!! Jason Keeper of Giles perch at The Bronze Keeper of Willow's common sense - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:07:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Mike \"Nelson\"" Subject: BUFFY: Part 2 SPOILERS --- How long? S P O I L E R S P A C E Okay, here's a bit of a survey question. How many episodes does everyone think it will take for them to find a way to restore Angel's soul? And also, how will they do it? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 21:25:28 PST From: jphelan@radware.net (Jim Phelan) Subject: BUFFY: Innonence Oh man!! That episode was SO sad. I cried. I can't believe Angel's evil now? What do you think is gonna happen? I hope they turn him back. I can't stand him like that. Does anyone know if he will ever be good again? PLEASE tell me. THANKS!! Laura angel74365@hotmail.com or jphelan@radware.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Douglas McNeil <94mcneim@scar.utoronto.ca> Subject: BUFFY: *less odd than they used to be* [ Here follow more no doubt foolish thoughts on the relationships of the characters. Since both sides of the two-parter have now aired, spoiler protection should be unnecessary but I'll err on the side of courteous caution. :) ] More ramblings: I'm very glad to have watched both parts together, as we CKVR-positive Canadians had the chance to do. Thanks, guys! It added a lot to the drama of the story; you were swept up in it completely. (Although I remember nearly screaming at my fellow Buffy-watcher when the show ended at 10:52 by my clock. :) I can't resist the opportunity to take the two-parter as an excuse to write more musings on the relationships between the characters, as it confirmed (in my head, anyway!) my earlier approach. (See the archives, if any exist, for my recent post on "the odd couple" if you're interested.) The three relationships: Cordelia-Xander, Xander-Willow, and Willow-Oz. While I do think that there's much to be mined from Buffy and Angel's, for various reasons I'm more interested in the Xander-centred ones. ********* I had written that I thought that Xander and Cordelia made a pretty good couple despite many people's opinion that its only value was comedic relief -- which has already been mined. Others thought that the relationship was implausible: well, it's more common than we think. The 'opposites attract' phenomenon, or (as I recently read in some fanfic) the 'kind of hate where you want to kiss the other person' is all too real. If memory serves, Jeff posted a rather touching story about a relationship from his past a while back (if you're out there, Jeff, your contributions are missed); I can add two of my own from high school. Well, I think we've seen that their relationship is moving towards one that can stand on its own. I said that if Cordy can surrender her socially-imposed self-image, and Xander can realize that he doesn't need to define himself in terms of reaction to his "failures" to succeed by those same social standards, they'd do okay. I'm glad to say that's happening and in every way. Imagine all the time that Cordelia spends with those she considers 'losers'; considering the number of evenings she winds up with the gang, she must be sacrificing a vast amount of requisite status time. Can you imagine what she must say to Harmony and the like about where she was last night? Further, Cordelia _came to Buffy's birthday party_. I'm not sure how long it's been since the various listmembers have been to high school (although with Mia's recent confession of her age, I can bet that it's been several decades for some :) but surely everyone remembers that discrimination in attendance is a major status factor.. much less being in on the organising. Why is she doing this? Because she's finding something more rewarding about hanging with the Slayerettes than hanging with the shallow crowd she did before. She's delighting in finding friendship where she hadn't suspected -- and it's not all due to our favourite X-man. She's also discovering that accomplishment, having done something for the good, even if no one knows, is satisfying in a way that a good 'do isn't. If you doubt this, ask yourself: why does she hang around? Some (especially after part one) were wondering why Cordelia wasn't more open with Xander by now: well, change takes time, people! She's not just going to undo the habits, fears, and difficulties of a lifetime in a few minutes because a combination of fate and biology has brought her into Xander's life. But I'm sorry. The smile that Cordelia gave Xander when they kissed right before Willow showed is not the smile of someone using someone. It was affectionate, tender, and caring. That's what Xander needs. As well, Cordelia's simple comment about being sort-of impressed with Xander in the bunker meant more to him -- to both of them -- than you might figure. Don't ask me how I know. :) Their conversation while getting the weapon was also honest and open about fears. I'm not so sure about the common assumption of Cordelia's, er, experience anymore.. the tone of her comments goes against that. I suspect that we'll soon be seeing a development in their relationship not unlike the one in Buffy and Angel's, where Xander and Cordelia meet each other 'in body and in thought'. Now that their relationship is known by Willow, I can't imagine Buffy won't find out.. and I'm curious to see her response. Their relationship is an interesting one, and I may think about it more someday. I suspect, though, that given the new impossibility of a relationship with Angel (impermanent, obviously) we'll see that the affection she has for Xander may briefly flare up into the greenish part of the spectrum. Anyhow, it will be 'announced'; and I suspect that Cordy is secretly relieved that the decision to stop the hiding was taken from her, because she's definitely been weakening. (Did anyone else notice that it was Xander who really saved the day in this one? Well, I did. Wish he could've fired it himself.) ********** I admit to having initially disliked Oz. I realized after only a few lines why he was being introduced and resented the knowledge. After much thought, I've concluded that the reason was simple and all-too-Xanderish: jealousy. I associate a lot more with Xander than I do any of the other characters, and having been a strong Xander-Willow supporter, the thought of 'someone else' having Willow and poor Xander being left alone was too troubling. Oz has one major flaw: he doesn't have any. He's the anti-Cordelia. He's intelligent, sensitive, self-defined. He has Xander's wit without Xander's sometimes painful edge. He appreciates Willow for who she is and shows great coolness in the face of major weirdness.. and I wanted to beat him senseless. (I could take him, too.) Hopefully I'm over the need for physical violence against an imaginary character :), but I still think that powerful human characters are made when we see their lights, their darknesses, and the divisions and compromises they've made between them. This is a little unfair, I admit, as we've seen little Oz of yet. I'll refrain from discussing the much-rumoured development in the Willow-Oz arc (and the irony in this paragraph), which I'm hoping will fill this weakness.. But he'll be good for her, I think: the chemistry is remarkable, and he looks the perfect match. Paradoxically, I think it'll be better for Willow in the long run if something goes very wrong. She has an idealized view of relationships. Look at the way she's romantically swept up in the Angel-Buffy connection, and look at the way she's pined after Xander all these years, taking her pleasure from silent observation and not participation. Look further at Willow's revealing ambivalence. She's angry at Xander for preferring someone he hates to her; but *she had already asked Oz out!*. I tried to figure out who's right, which duties have been violated, and so on in earlier drafts of this paragraph :), but I've concluded it's just a mess. This Gordian knot of love and hurt will only be resolved now by, er, Alexander's sword. *grin* More seriously, Buffy loves Angel; and Willow loves Xander. But her age-old love for him, because of its impossibility, hasn't grown. But when challenges come to her and Oz, she'll know pain other than yearning; the purifying flame of love. Ever since Eden, the road to true and perfect happiness has come through struggle, which is why Willow's love for Xander can't be complete. Because she doesn't know what love in its fullness really is (sorry, Will) they can't be together. She doesn't know what she's asking of him, and doesn't know what she's offering. Soon she will. Random thoughts, Doug - - ------------------------------ End of buffy-digest V2 #45 ************************** To subscribe to buffy or buffy-digest, send the command subscribe buffy-digest or subscribe buffy to majordomo@xmission.com. You will need to go through a confirmation process, and the listowners have to manually approve your subscription request, so it may take some time. Back issues of this digest can be found at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/buffy/archive/ For help, contact Jill Kirby (jtkirby@mcs.com) or sah (romana@mindspring.com)