From: "Randall Britten" Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params Date: 01 Apr 1999 10:57:50 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE7C2E.7D500A90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In short, MiniSanMarco1: Re: -0.1613432317972183 Im: 1.036044612526894 Why? See the description below: The San Marco Fractal (as Mandelbrot himself called it) is probably a well known Julia set: Re: -0.7498431447893381 (approx) Im: 0 It corresponds to the intersection of the cardioid and circle of the Mandelbrot set. The space bar feature in fractint 19.6 helps you discover Julia's for each point in Mandelbrot space (allow me to call this the MainJulia), so I wondered what happened when one found a MiniBrot and picked the corresponding point to the MainBrot to be the Julia Param. The results are quite exciting. The Julia set as a whole looks quite different, but will contain the MainJulia, and repeat it over and over (similar to discovering MiniBrots allover the place, one discovers MiniJulias allover the place). As an example, for the minibrot given by the following parameters: Minibrot1 { reset=1960 type=mandel center-mag=-0.158547/1.03401/99.7004 params=0/0 maxiter=2000 } Has a Mini-SanMarco with the Julia params (this is the one I mentioned right at the top): Re: -0.1613432317972183 Im: 1.036044612526894 The zoom in to show the MiniSanMarco is shown below : MiniSanMarco1 { reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=0.00635933/-0.00909876/10.35182 params=-0.1613432317972183/1.036044612526894 maxiter=2000 } (OK, I know Jeff said that it must be the whole Julia, but this is only a 10 times zoom in, so let me get away with it.) And so on, for every MainJulia, use the MiniBrots to find MiniJulias, here is another example circle_MiniJulia1: MainJulia: Re=0, Im=0 (boring circle?) Circle_MiniJulia1: Re: -0.1556614693254232(approx), Im=1.03176917694509(approx) Below shows a zoom in (sorry, that it is not exact, but I need to get back to work, so I had better rush a bit). circle_MiniJulia1 { reset=1960 type=julia center-mag=1.095e-007/1.005e-007/4.901962 params=-0.1556614693254232/1.03176917694509 maxiter=2000 } ------------------------- Randall Britten The Internet Solution +27 (11) 283-5616 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Field Sent: Thursday 01 April 1999 04:59 Do you have some favorite Julia params? For example, I found the following on someone's web site: "m_juleye": (-0.7910322074096 , -0.1502158760371). If you enter these numbers as the real and imaginary parts of the Julia parameters in Fractint, you get a form with two interlocking spiral arms on either side of the central part of the fractal. This pattern repeats itself laterally. What interesting Julia's have you found? I am looking at the set as a whole, rather than at a zoom into the set. --Jeff Field jfield@clark.net Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE7C2E.7D500A90 Content-Type: image/gif; name="FRACT001.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="FRACT001.GIF" R0lGODlhQAHIANcAJgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAEAAAMAAAUAAAcAAAkAAAsAAA0AAA8AABFAABNAABVAABdAABlAABtAAB1AAB9AACG AACOAACWAACeAACmAACuAAC2AAC+AADHAADPAADXAADfAADnAADvAAD3AAD/AAD7AADzAADrAADj AADbAADTAADLAADDAAC6AACyAACqAACiAACaAACSAACKAACCAAB5AABxAABpAABhAABZAABRAABJ AABBAAA4AAAwAAAoAAAgAAAYAAAQAAAIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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AAAAAAAAAM2GAAD//wEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA5wMAADwAHgAAAFoAWgAeAAAAAAAAAAAA AAABAP//AQAAABQAAAAAAAQAAAAAAAQAUABkAAAAAAAAAP//kW1BOGRYv7+uPy4WKw+7v2cABAAJ AgAAAAAAAAAAoAAAAAAGAgMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAABAPwAAqAcAAAD5AAAAFAAA AAAAAQD/AEcAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP//j8L1KFyP6r+PwvUoXI/qvwAAAAAAANA/AAAAAAAA 0L+AAAAAAEEAAABBAADgQAAAIEEAAMBBAAAgQAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0AcAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BE7C2E.7D500A90-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ian.ent@argonet.co.uk (Dr I D Entwistle) Subject: RE: (fractint) Julia set params Date: 01 Apr 1999 15:01:22 On Thu 1 Apr 99 (10:57:50 +0200), randall@is.co.za wrote: > > > In short, MiniSanMarco1: > Re: -0.1613432317972183 > Im: 1.036044612526894 > > Why? See the description below: > > The San Marco Fractal (as Mandelbrot himself called it) is probably a > well known Julia set: > Re: -0.7498431447893381 (approx) > Im: 0 > > It corresponds to the intersection of the cardioid and circle of the > Mandelbrot set. Jeff Yuo should be aware that image attachments are not acceptable on this list.It is 15 years since I first generated the San Marco fractal and the .par file is quite adequate for everyone to generate it again. Ian Entwistle -- See fractal Galleries at http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ian.ent Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Cole Subject: Re: (fractint) need help for Winfract Date: 01 Apr 1999 11:15:23 -0600 Patrick, As far as I know, you have the newest version of Winfract, 18.21. It is very limited when it comes to deep zooming. I use it to teach about fractals and image creation to my middle school students (ages 11-14). You need Fractint 19.6 for the features you want. Kenneth Cole http://www.kencole.org/ Patyves@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > My name is Patrick and I'm French. > So at first I would like to apologize to you for my approximate English. > I'm a beginner with Fractint and I use to work with Winfract for Windows95(the > 18.21 version). > I'm frustrate to be limited with the zooming and the iteration possibilities > of this version. > Can you help me and tell me if there is a new version available with high > iteration and deep zooming? > If it doesn't exist, is it possible to upgrade those possibilities from my own > version? > Thank you very much for your help. > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PKyleCA@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Easter Egg Par Date: 03 Apr 1999 11:08:30 EST Here is an easter egg, moire style along with a few others ........... Easteregg { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle ; Easter Egg reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08 center-mag=-7455.29/-7455.39/0.0001798271/1/44.999 params=0.1300804/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647 inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0 invert=6/0/0 colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\ 6>zz0 } Gremlin { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle Mod of Moire Mask ; Gremlin reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08 center-mag=1359.77/1359.98/8.336354e-005/1/44.999 params=0.13081/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647 inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0 invert=6/0/0 colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\ 6>zz0 } pleased { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle Mod of Moire Mask ; pleased reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08 center-mag=1359.77/1359.98/8.336354e-005/1/44.999 params=0.130789/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647 inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0 invert=6/0/0 colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\ 6>zz0 } SonicSpider { ; (C) 1999 P. Kyle Mod of Moire Mask ; Sonic Spider reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=frac_ml.frm formulaname=ca10-08 center-mag=2.27374e-012/0.163402/5.035158e-005/1/44.998 params=0.130901/0/2.71828182845905/0.01 float=y maxiter=647 inside=maxiter outside=real logmode=fly potential=255/334/0 invert=6/0/0 colors=110<46>00z<30>112110332<30>zzz<30>222000002<30>00z<30>002000110<4\ 6>zz0 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Les St Clair" Subject: (fractint) March '99 par collection Date: 04 Apr 1999 10:34:29 +0100 Hi folks, The March par collection of postings to this mail list is now available at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Les_StClair/fml.htm (just the parameters) or, if you prefer the pars with their original messages left intact you can get this version: http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/crosstrees/fml.htm The updated formula collection (frac_ml.frm) is available from both sites. cheers, Les Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Luc-Andre Rey" Subject: (fractint) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:40:11 +0200 Date: 05 Apr 1999 04:50:05 -0600 A new update of my site, pages 15 and 16. The site http://www.multimania.com/warey/fract/ Enjoy Luc-Andre Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) new images on web site Date: 05 Apr 1999 15:19:57 -0400 I have replaced the old images with new ones on two of my pages at my Geocities web site: Euler - Page 2 and Curves - Page 1. There is also a new formula in the curves collection, both Fractint and Ultrafractal versions. Please download the appropriate files to replace your current ones. It has been called to my attention that some of my pages did not load properly. The reason for this is that in order to put some order into my large number of files, I created subdirectories for each page. Consequently the addresses have changed by the inclusion of the name of the respective subdirectories. If you have visited my page recently, or have bookmarked individual pages therein, please access my index.html again, and hit your reload button. Then access the individual pages from there, hit reload again, and change you bookmarks. Sorry for the inconvenience. I hope you'll enjoy your visit. Gedeon. -- Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html Member Infinite Fractal Loop Last updated: April 5, 1999 - new images - Euler2 & Curves1 Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html Last updated: February 23, 1999 - three new pages Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Wilczynski" Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection Date: 06 Apr 1999 20:54:46 -0700 Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the monthly pars. I've had an enforced hiatus from the list due to health and puter problems but feel back in touch thanks to Les' collections. I downloaded them all!!! Thanks again....just can't be said too many times. Angela aka wizzle Les St Clair wrote: > > Hi folks, > > The March par collection of postings to this mail list is now available at: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Les_StClair/fml.htm > (just the parameters) > > or, if you prefer the pars with their original messages left intact you can get > this version: > > http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/crosstrees/fml.htm > > The updated formula collection (frac_ml.frm) is available from both sites. > > cheers, > Les > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kathy roth Subject: (fractint) March '99 Par Collection Date: 07 Apr 1999 01:10:51 -0700 Angela aka Wizzle wrote > Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the > monthly pars...... > Hi. Nice to have you back! Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Les St Clair" Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection Date: 08 Apr 1999 00:11:55 +0100 >Many many thanks to Les for keeping up with the discussion list and posting the >monthly pars. Thanks Angela! Actually it's not that hard to keep up with at the moment. If you look at the number of postings they have declined sharply in recent months. What we need is some good ol' Wizzle images again ;-) - Les Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Genealogy1@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 08 Apr 1999 12:10:25 EDT Hi Tim, Do you think layering, as in Ultrafractal, could ever be added to FRACTINT? --Bob Carr-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike and Linda Allison" Subject: Re: (fractint) March '99 par collection Date: 08 Apr 1999 16:55:57 -0700 Hey! We missed you, Angela! Glad to you are up and about! Linda Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 08 Apr 1999 22:26:46 -0600 > Do you think layering, as in Ultrafractal, could ever be added to FRACTINT? I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I understand it is not freeware so I don't use it. I'm not sure what you mean by layering, but it sounds like it requires true color support, so yes fractint will do this after we have full truecolor support. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:47:42 -0500 Tim, Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods. You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference (my favorites). The layering features of Ultra Fractal are similar to those in Photoshop and many other graphics programs. - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it. Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are most of the applications you probably run. I understand why you're unhappy that UF isn't free, I know we've covered that before. But I don't understand why you're blinding yourself. Does it matter if you look at it yourself for ideas, or have me or someone else tell you about them? (It does--you'll get a better understanding of what people are asking for if you've at least *looked* at other programs).) Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:56:46 -0500 Tim, Another follow-up to this thread. In February I posted a formula and parameter set that demonstrated both layering and true color in FractInt. Nobody commented on it, as I recall. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 09 Apr 1999 11:47:42 -0500 Tim, Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods. You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference (my favorites). The layering features of Ultra Fractal are similar to those in Photoshop and many other graphics programs. - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it. Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are most of the applications you probably run. I understand why you're unhappy that UF isn't free, I know we've covered that before. But I don't understand why you're blinding yourself. Does it matter if you look at it yourself for ideas, or have me or someone else tell you about them? (It does--you'll get a better understanding of what people are asking for if you've at least *looked* at other programs).) Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Tim: Layering with Fractint... Date: 09 Apr 1999 17:01:52 -0600 Damien wrote: > Layering is the ability to take several fractal images and merge them > together, with adjustable transparency and different combination methods. > You can do a limited form of this with PHC and PTC methods, but with true > layering capability your control is much finer. Instead of being restricted > to mixing each fractal equally, you have fine control over blending, and > the ability to use a variety of merge modes like Hard Light and Difference > (my favorites). Ah so, thanks for the explanation! > - I haven't looked at ultrafractal so I don't know about its features. I > - understand it is not freeware so I don't use it. > > Tim, it's Shareware. That means you can try it for thirty > days, and if you don't like it, and don't intend paying for it, you can > remove it. I think you should at least *look* at it. Not being free isn't > this huge sin, you know; your operating system isn't free and neither are > most of the applications you probably run. Sorry, I won't, my decision, I don't expect you to understand or like it. I have no interest in commercial or shareware fractal programs, and won't spend any time looking at them. I have always had far more of just my own ideas about what to implement than I had time to work, and that is more true now than ever. I have never looked at other programs to get ideas for fractint, with the possible exception of fractal witchcraft/SOI. However, there is nothing stopping other people from looking at Ultrafractal and contributing new features. Fractint is an open source, community project, and it is not that hard to contribute. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 11 Apr 1999 16:34:02 -0600 Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI all-in-wonder board's 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd like to know the fractint.cfg settings. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 11 Apr 1999 11:56:05 -1000 Sorry, can't help with the ATI, but had it working with an S3 chipset at the office. Using the ones that already existed in Fractint 19.6. Unfortunately, haven't been able to make it run anything higher than 640x480 with our ELSA GLoria Synergy. On 11 Apr 99 at 16:34, Tim Wegner wrote: > Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI > all-in-wonder board's 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd > like to know the fractint.cfg settings. Another blast of bits from David http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/ http://www.hawastsoc.org/ For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com Random Thought for this Nanosecond If luck smite thee on one cheek, offer thou also the other. (D.Jones) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 12 Apr 1999 12:02:21 -0400 Hi Tim, >> Has anyone gotten Fractint to work with the ATI all-in-wonder board's= >> 1600x1200 mode? If you have, I'd like to know the fractint.cfg >> settings. Try the following entries: ,Diamond Stealth 64 V mode,4f02, 120, 0, 0, 28,1600,1200,256,OK:= Dan Paccaloni - HBT ,nVidia Riva TNT mode ,4f02,0145, 0, 0, 28,1600,1200,256,OK:= Phil DiGiorgi ,Millennium VESA mode ,4f02, 11C, 0, 0, 28,1600,1200,256,OK:= Sylvie Gallet ,STB Pegasus VESA mode ,4f02, 45, 0, 0, 28,1600,1200,256,OK:= Lee Skinner ,ATI MACH64 VESA mode ,4f02, 302, 0, 0, 28,1600,1200,256,OK:= Don Archer If none of them works with your ATI all-inwonder, you can use vesa2cfg.exe to detect the 1600x1200 mode (download vesa2cfg.zip from my web site: ) Cheers, - Sylvie E-mail: Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com Visit my exhibit at Museum of Computer Art: http://www.donarcher.com/moca My Fractal Galleries: http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Baker" Subject: (fractint) video configuration Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:13:35 GMT I am attempting to use Fractint 19.2 on a Compaq Prolinea 4/25s atg work. This machine has a Tseng Labs ET 4000/W32 video chipset, but I cannot get the video cofigurator to work in anything other than monochrome. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Jack Baker griffin2020@hotmail.com PS- am using Fractint at home on my PII/350, and it screams! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) video configuration Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:11:11 -0400 Hi Jack, >> I am attempting to use Fractint 19.2 on a Compaq Prolinea 4/25s atg = >> work. This machine has a Tseng Labs ET 4000/W32 video chipset, but I = >> cannot get the video cofigurator to work in anything other than = >> monochrome. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Download vesa2cfg.zip from my web site: = Run vesa1cfg.exe and email me the text file it creates (qpv.cfg). - Sylvie E-mail: Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com Visit my exhibit at Museum of Computer Art: http://www.donarcher.com/moca My Fractal Galleries: http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Genealogy1@aol.com Subject: (fractint) An interesting effect... Date: 12 Apr 1999 18:25:59 EDT I thought this image had a most interesting effect. View at your highest resolution. --Bob Carr-- Carr3416(YAXIS){;Modified Sylvie Gallet frm.1996 ;passes=1 needs to be used with this PHC formula pixel=-abs(real(pixel))+flip(imag(pixel)) b3=(1.224*cabs(pixel^5)-flip(conj(pixel))) b5=(((conj(b3/2))*abs(b3)*(b3)^3-conj(0.01/b3))/(tanh(0.6/pixel)))+0.37 z=whitesq*b5^0.8456-(whitesq==0)*b5 c1=1.5*z^1.2,c2=2.25*z,c3=3.375*z,c4=5.0625*z l1=real(p1),l2=imag(p1),l3=real(p2),l4=imag(p2) bailout=16,iter=0: t1=(iter==l1),t2=(iter==l2),t3=(iter==l3),t4=(iter==l4) t=1-(t1||t2||t3||t4),z=z*t,c=c*t+c1*t1+c2*t2+c3*t3+c4*t4 z=z^2+(-0.7626073214,0.084796112) iter=iter+1 imag(flip(z))<=bailout } Carr3416 { ; A most interesting effect. ; Copyright 1999 Robert W. Carr reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=43hCarr.frm formulaname=Carr3416 passes=1 center-mag=0.0010622/-0.169487/0.8293096/1/180 params=200/300/400/550 float=y maxiter=647 periodicity=0 colors=000000<13>AFHBGMEJPIMR000OSW<11>zzz<14>WWWUUUTTT<14>000<15>apz<12\ >000<10>zpa<6>_SMWPKTKNPGPMBSI7U<10>102000000<14>wo`<15>`00<15>000WOG<13\ >zo`<15>UMFWLE<13>`Ft`Fw_Et<12>L7UK7SH7UGBVFFW<13>2fx } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 13 Apr 1999 00:10:58 -0600 Sylvie wrote: > If none of them works with your ATI all-inwonder, you can use > vesa2cfg.exe to detect the 1600x1200 mode (download vesa2cfg.zip from my > web site: > ) No dice with ATI All-In-Wonder, although it looks like a VERY interesting board. All-In-Wonder has these modes (just listing above 800x600 to save space; up to 800x600 is pretty standard): 1024 768 256 1024 $4f02 $0105 1280 1024 256 1280 $4f02 $0107 1024 768 32k 2048 $4f02 $0116 1280 1024 32k 2560 $4f02 $0119 1024 768 64k 2048 $4f02 $0117 1280 1024 64k 2560 $4f02 $011a 1024 768 16m 3072 $4f02 $0118 R 1280 1024 16m 3840 $4f02 $011b R With ATI-supplied TSR (no change!): 1024 768 256 1024 $4f02 $0105 1280 1024 256 1280 $4f02 $0107 1024 768 32k 2048 $4f02 $0116 1280 1024 32k 2560 $4f02 $0119 1024 768 64k 2048 $4f02 $0117 1280 1024 64k 2560 $4f02 $011a 1024 768 16m 3072 $4f02 $0118 R 1280 1024 16m 3840 $4f02 $011b R With sci-tech UNI-VBE 1024 768 256 1024 $4f02 $0105 1152 864 256 1152 $4f02 $01ef 1024 768 32k 2048 $4f02 $0116 1152 864 32k 2304 $4f02 $01df 1024 768 64k 2048 $4f02 $0117 1152 864 64k 2304 $4f02 $01cf 1024 768 16m 4096 $4f02 $01ac R 1152 864 16m 4608 $4f02 $01ab R Here's the result for Diamond Monster Fusion - Scitech doesn't know about this board. 1024 768 256 1024 $4f02 $0105 1280 1024 256 1280 $4f02 $0107 1024 768 64k 2048 $4f02 $0117 1280 1024 64k 2560 $4f02 $011a 1024 768 16m 4096 $4f02 $0118 R 1280 1024 16m 4096 $4f02 $011b R Thank goodness for liberal return policies at the local stores, but this is getting tiresome. I'll give my requirements in the next message. Thanks for reminding me about ves2cfg - it is exactly the right tool for configuring Fractint. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 00:10:58 -0600 Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this board exists :-) Sadly, VESA support is getting worse. 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes up to 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means an 4 mb board at least, though I prefer 8 mb. 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I don't want to get a headache using Fractint! 3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly (preferred) or via a TSR. 4. Must have good Linux support. It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions? Tim Wegner Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) An interestin Date: 13 Apr 1999 09:35:19 -0400 Nice image Bob! Here's an interesting zoom into it. Carr3416_5 { ; t=3D 0:28:0= 1.07 ; on a P233 at 1600x1200 Apr 13, 1999 07:33:37 ; Image Copyright 1999 by Lee H. Skinner ver=3D1960 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Dfractint.frm formulaname=3Dcarr3416 passes=3D1 center-mag=3D-0.00000319254152692/+0.08639684897955899/67.0551/1/180 params=3D200/300/400/550 float=3Dy maxiter=3D647 symmetry=3Dnone periodicity=3D0 colors=3D0000Tp<5>z80<2>b50V30N20F00A00500000023057kbs<7>000220457<12>X= cr<\ 14>33400000500A<4>07D08E2BD<9>We0<8>9E96AB47A1490004409NWCHRDHJEHAGH1GQ= 1\ GZ2<2>Xh0bkA<3>zzz<3>lprhmoeln<10>0ch0ae0Zb<3>22R<2>33I44F45C5693350000= 0\ 0400<2>A00C00C00D00000F00<4>J00<2>c30k50r60z80yA0<2>uJ0<4>07A<2>0FM<8>g= l\ 6lo5ps3uv2zz0<10>`00<7>zyn<8>yUF<7>x4R<9>K7TG7UC5M83F42763A00G022<4>0GG= 0\ JY0MM0P00M24L0<4>OXe<3>5Um } Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:35:31 -0400 Hi Tim, >> Thank goodness for liberal return policies at the local stores, but = >> this is getting tiresome. Sure! When I ordered my P300, I asked them to run vesa2cfg with the video card they were trying to sell me, and the Millennium G200 was the only one that worked fine. >> Thanks for reminding me about ves2cfg - it is exactly the right tool = >> for configuring Fractint. This is the only thing I can do! Cheers, - Sylvie Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:35:30 -0400 Tim, >> Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this board= >> exists :-) Me neither! >> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes up = to >> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means an 4 = mb >> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb. The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz, 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M. >> 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not = >> good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I = >> don't want to get a headache using Fractint! I've never tried to control vertical refresh under DOS. 3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly = (preferred) or via a TSR. No problem. 4. Must have good Linux support. It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for Dos, OS2,= Win 3.1/95/NT). >> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions? A visit to the site of Matrox? Cheers, - Sylvie Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Phil DiGiorgi" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:15:27 -0400 Hi Tim, The Viper 550 from Diamond satisfies most, if not all, of your requirements, I believe. According to the specs, it will support up to 1920x1200 in 24 bit at a refresh rate of 85 hz. Vesa 3.0 support for 1600x1200x256 is built in, and fractint runs fine either in plain DOS or windows 9x. The board is supported in Linux starting with XFree86-3.3.3. I've experimented with it under SUSE 6.0 and Mandrake 5.3 with zero problems. (I haven't succeeded in getting xfract to work yet, but that's another story.) I'm not sure about controling refresh rates under DOS, but I think there is a small utility available from Diamond to do that. I will check into it. Phil D. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:10 AM > Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this > board exists :-) Sadly, VESA support is getting worse. > > 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes > up to 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means > an 4 mb board at least, though I prefer 8 mb. > > 2. Must have a way to control vertical refresh under DOS. It is not > good enough to control the vertical refresh via Windows drivers - I > don't want to get a headache using Fractint! > > 3. Must have a 1600x1200x256 VESA BIOS mode, either directly > (preferred) or via a TSR. > > 4. Must have good Linux support. > > It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions? > > Tim Wegner > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:08:51 -0600 Sylvie wrote: > Sure! When I ordered my P300, I asked them to run vesa2cfg with the > video card they were trying to sell me, and the Millennium G200 was the > only one that worked fine. This is kind of embarressing, because someone (probably Lee Skinner) suggested a long time ago that Fractint do the work of ves2cfg and figure out the settings. I tnink this is a real possibility. Since software can detect the VESA settings, it doesn't make sense for the user to have to run vesa2cfg and copy the numbers to fractint.cfg. I'm always mad at computer systems that tell me exactly what I did wrong and exactly what I should do - like the phone telling me I forgot to dial "1" - if the computser system knows, it should just DO it. :-) I'll look into this. I'm not a video expert like Bert Tyler, but it might be easy. Thanks to those who posted the various messages about video boards. I'm wondering if a Creative Labs RIVA TNT is another candidate. Perhaps we should compile a list of the max VESA resolution for various boards. If a number of people emailed scitech about adding higher resolutions to univbe, maybe they would do it. I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower resolutions, probably because there aren't any 1600x1200 games. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 19:08:51 -0600 > The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz, > 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M. This is good except for the 60 Hz. > It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for Dos, OS2, > Win 3.1/95/NT). Manufacturers don't generally provide Linux support - but the army of open source developers do. I checked at www.xfree86.org, and the Millenium is definitely supported. Most boards are except the very newest ones. > >> It is really hard to get good technical information. Any suggestions? > > A visit to the site of Matrox? Amazingly, VERY few manufacturer web sites list VESA modes. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Fargher Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 17:17:03 -0700 (PDT) On 13-Apr-99 Sylvie Gallet wrote: > The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors > at 60 Hz, > 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M. In OS/2 + Win98, I run my G200 at 1600 x1200, 24 bit colour at 65 Hz. Haven't yet figured out how to do it in Linux yet. > 4. Must have good Linux support. > > It doesn't seem to have Linux support (the CD has drivers for > Dos, OS2,> Win 3.1/95/NT). It has excellent Linux support in XFree86 3.3.3.1. Matrox released the specs for the G200; I expect that very shortly it will be *the* best supported card in Linux. Matox announced the G400 chip recently. It's gonna be a killer! :-) Cheers, Rob E-Mail: Rob Fargher Time: 17:14:04 This message was sent by XFMail Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Jemison Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 20:50:17 -0400 Tim, The specs that I have on the Matrox Millenium G200 8M AGP card list 1600x1200 @ 75 - 113 hz. I have one, but have only used it about two week= s between the first and (now) second RMA's. While it was working, it was really nice, and I can't wait to get it back. I think the refresh rate is= partially dependant on your monitor capabilities. My NOKIA 21" used something in the upper 70's at 1600x1200x24bit, and it was not at all har= d on the eyes, flicker-wise. (Sylvie - is the 60hz @ 1600x you mentioned th= e best for your monitor, or the card?). The docs also mention a dos utility on the install CD for adjusting the refresh rate for the VESA modes. In 1600x1200 it supports VESA modes 11C (256), 11D (32K), and 11E (65K). Are you getting or have an AGP capable mb? Bill Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:50:02 -1000 On 13 Apr 99 at 19:08, Tim Wegner wrote: > I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower > resolutions, probably because there aren't any 1600x1200 > games. Maybe when intel comes out with their 1GHZ+ chip, they'll finally have a processor fast enough to *run* a game at that resolution. 8-) Another blast of bits from David http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/ http://www.hawastsoc.org/ For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com Random Thought for this Nanosecond There once was a man named Lum Who always had flies on his thumb. When people asked why, He said, 'I'm so sly: They like the sweet music I hum.' (D.Jones) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 13 Apr 1999 22:50:03 -1000 On 13 Apr 99 at 17:35, Sylvie Gallet wrote: > >> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes up to > >> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means an 4 mb > >> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb. > > The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k > colors at 60 Hz, 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M. Our ELSA GLoria Synergy supports up to 1920x1536 at 256 colors at 75Hz refresh, which would finally let me see something close to Fractint's max image size. Unfortunately, the best Fractint can do with the board is 640x480x256 (We tried VESA2CFG on it, and it doesn't find any VESA modes higher than that). Of course, the board would quite happily run that rez at a 300Hz refresh rate - if I had a monitor that could handle it! Another blast of bits from David http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/ http://www.hawastsoc.org/ For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com Random Thought for this Nanosecond Did you file an EIR before taking off that shoe? (D.Jones) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 14 Apr 1999 06:20:07 -0400 Hi Bill, >> Sylvie - is the 60hz @ 1600x you mentioned the best for your monitor, = or >> the card? I don't know. I never bothered to read the docs!!!!!! Cheers, - Sylvie Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Litwak" Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 14 Apr 1999 08:41:56 -0400 While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a dos utility to control the refresh rate of a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee in dos? Except for that I believe the Banshee meets all your criteria for a video card, 16Mb memory, built in VESA support, refresh rates to 120 MHz, resolution to 1600 x 1200, true color, etc., and its inexpensive! I love this card. Eric Litwak Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 14 Apr 1999 09:47:14 -0400 Hi Tim, Regarding your search for a video board, I would recommend a Matrox. They are widely respected for their rock-solid drivers. I have been using the original Millenium in DOS, NT, and OS/2 and it is the most solid card I've ever used. However, I don't know if it meets all your requirements. The following web site has lots of Matrox technical info: http://grafi.ii.pw.edu.pl/gbm/matrox/ Go there and click on InDepth tech info. You can also look at http://www.matroxusers.com which is another site run by Matrox users (not affiliation with Matrox). Nick Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Baker" Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 14 Apr 1999 15:17:52 GMT You should be able to get the DOS utilities from the manufacturer's website, assuming that they (like diamond) choose to support DOS. It is sometime possible to get another manufacturers drivers for the same chipset to work, but that is not guaranteed. -Jack ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Wed Apr 14 05:50:36 1999 Received: from [198.60.22.7] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id MHotMailB8DDDA1A005ED1017097C63C1607CDB90; Wed Apr 14 05:50:36 1999 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1)id 10XP2X-0002sY-00for fractint-goout@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:45:13 -0600 Message-ID: <000001be8674$2e7991c0$623a8318@iggy.mw.mediaone.net> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 In-reply-to: <199904130511.AAA17109@voyager.c-com.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk While we're on the subject, does anyone know of a dos utility to control the refresh rate of a 3DFX Voodoo Banshee in dos? Except for that I believe the Banshee meets all your criteria for a video card, 16Mb memory, built in VESA support, refresh rates to 120 MHz, resolution to 1600 x 1200, true color, etc., and its inexpensive! I love this card. Eric Litwak Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 14 Apr 1999 17:41:33 -0600 Phil and everybody, > The Viper 550 from Diamond satisfies most, if not all, of your requirements, I > believe. According to the specs, it will support up to 1920x1200 in 24 bit > at a refresh rate of 85 hz. Vesa 3.0 support for 1600x1200x256 is built in, > and fractint runs fine either in plain DOS or windows 9x. The Viper 550 is what I got. As you said, support for 1600x1200 for Fractint is great. Thanks for the advice! I am now (finally!) a member of the 1600x1200 club. I'll bet it cost me a bit less than it cost those who did this several years ago. Now I need to dig out the CDs various folks have sent me full of 1600x1200 images :-) As with other Diamond boards, the documentation for the Viper 550 is very slim. I had a very frustrating time installing the board, because my system refused to abandon 640x480x16. Finally I read the FAQ at the Diamond website, and discovered that an IRQ is needed for this board. My BIOS has a setting for enabling or disabling an IRQ fotr VGA. Once I enabled it, all was well. The documentation indicates that the control software is supposed to have a way to set the vertical refresh. This dialogue box does not exist for my system. Fortunately, the software appears to have detected my monitor (an Optiquest V95 19 inch monitor which I bought for $440 from NECX), and automatically chose a reasonably high refresh. Under DOS I can see the flicker, but it's not TOO bad. I'll investigate ways to set the refresh under both Windows and DOS. Now that I have gone through this experience I have learned a lot, and we should be able to support your video configurations beytter in the future. As I wrote earlier, I will try to add automatic configuration for non-standard VESA modes such as 1600x1200. But it will still be up to users to get hardware that supports VESA. As I discovered, accurate technical information is hard to find. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: (fractint) Benchmark Date: 15 Apr 1999 14:20:50 GMT I've been using a program called "NBench" to do some benchmarking for an assignment I've got from Uni. I tried running NBench on its own, and then again with FractInt running disk video in a DOS shell. The image it was generating is given below. FractInt caused about an 83% speed decrease in the integer speed of the processor. On a Pentium 90MHz, it caused a 90% decrease in floating point speed. However, on a Pentium II 400MHz it only caused a 78% speed decrease for floating point. I don't suppose this is of the slightest interest to anyone, but the image takes over an hour to generate on a P400 (it's not really that good either). "AF6" is supposed to be that 2048x0248 disk video mode (in case you've changed your keys). ArbTest1 { ; Major M-Set Zoom ; Arbitrary Precision: 17 decimals! ; Use it to test CPU usage! reset=1960 type=mandel center-mag=-1.76863032411305468/0.001309533846159061/2.095308e+013 params=0/0 float=y maxiter=65536 inside=255 colors=@volcano.map passes=g video=AF6 } Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est! (Sir Francis Bacon) Andrew Orphi Coppin DMU MK. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 16:55:17 -0500 > > I'm going to ask. UNIVBE seems oriented to lower > > resolutions, probably because there aren't any 1600x1200 > > games. > > Maybe when intel comes out with their 1GHZ+ chip, they'll > finally have a processor fast enough to *run* a game at > that resolution. 8-) There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run on DOS. Neither should fractint :>. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 20:26:02 -0400 Adam wrote: >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run on DOS. Neither should fractint :>. << On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating systems as possible. Fractint was created and evolved under DOS. It sti= ll runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of. And Fractint runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the aesthetic capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my screen with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet possib= le with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. Lee Skinner Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 20:48:04 -0400 Lee Skinner wrote: > ...I certainly appreciate the aesthetic capability of being able to view an > entire 1600x1200 image on my screen with no other Window-type clutter. I > don't think that this is yet possible with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love > someone to prove me wrong. > > Lee Skinner On the menu go to Fractal > Full Screen. Gedeon -- Fractals: http://www.geocities.com/~gedeonp/index.html Member Infinite Fractal Loop Last updated: April 5, 1999 - new images - Euler2 & Curves1 Photography: http://members.xoom.com/gedeonp/index.html Last updated: February 23, 1999 - three new pages Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Baker" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 16 Apr 1999 00:54:33 GMT I do not believe that it is possible under Ultra Fractal, but it is possible under Fractal Extreme, and zooming at very high iterations is almost, but not quite as fast as in Fractint. -Jack Baker ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Thu Apr 15 17:30:06 1999 Received: from [198.60.22.7] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id MHotMailB8DFCF8900BCD1017077C63C160784B40; Thu Apr 15 17:30:06 1999 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1)id 10XwU4-0007Sc-00for fractint-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:27:52 -0600 Message-ID: <199904152026_MC2-7233-3DC7@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Adam wrote: >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run on DOS. Neither should fractint :>. << On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating systems as possible. Fractint was created and evolved under DOS. It still runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of. And Fractint runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the aesthetic capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my screen with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet possible with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. Lee Skinner Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Critzygal@aol.com Subject: (fractint) beginner Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:25:30 EDT Is there a list or web page that deals with fractint and/or winfract that is in plain english? I would like to learn more about it but do not know the lingo. How about a fractals for dummys? :o) Thank you. Chris Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:41:08 -0400 >> On the menu go to Fractal > Full Screen. << Thank you, Gedeon! Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:05:48 -0500 >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run on DOS. Neither should fractint :>. << On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating systems as possible. Fractint was created and evolved under DOS. It still runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of. And Fractint runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the aesthetic capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my screen with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet possible with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible. I didn't mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's completely silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only. It would make more sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server somewhere, and binaries available simultaneously for all platforms. A lot of stuff can't be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running DOS programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow. More reliable for it to run natively. And every GUI based operating system (yes, all of them) allow programs to run as full screen. I just think that it would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE and such crap. It also discourages the nubies. And I know I mentioned this before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL accelerated 3D, multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run under DOS. Adam Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:56:42 -0600 Jack wrote: > Excellent ideas, all, Adam. Probably be easier to implement in Linux > than in any other OS. As the source code to Fractint is available, > what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program? > (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...) Fractint has had a Linux port for years. It is called Xfractint. We are actively improving it now. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:31:38 -0500 Uh, I don't see any reason why implementing it would be any more or less difficult on Windows, Linux, Be, Mac OS X, whatever.. I think the entire codebase needs a big overhaul. That would be the hardest part. On the bright side there would be a hell of a lot more deleting than writing. I can't believe they're still compiling 19.6 with Turbo C++. Christ, does anybody even care about Fractint anymore? Obviously the people on this list do but I don't know about the people who are supposed to be maintaining the thing. I wouldn't even touch it unless I thought I could get rid of the 16 bit crap. As far as GUIs go, that stuff would all have to be abstracted (second hardest part). Still no big deal, even I could probably find the time to do that. For DOS either the default textmode GUI or some hacked up window manager would have to be used. For Windows you'd probably want to write straight to the Win32 API since MFC sucks and most of the Fractint code is already in C (good thing) anyhow, you want to stay consistent and not start farting around with C++ unless there's a good reason. There is a GTK+ implementation for Win32 that is kind of interesting but it looks all weird and unixy unless you package a "theme" with the app (that would actually be cool). For X Windows you'd want to use GTK+ (with or without gnome), it's becoming kind of a "standard" toolkit. For Mac OS X, NeXTStep, etc. you would write to OpenStep (you could also use this on X Windows I guess); you have to learn to code in Objective C for that. As far as video, you'd want SciTech MGL for DOS and Linux without a doubt. No more hacking video mode settings and all that ridiculous shit. I know it means using a library, but it's a free library with source code. For Windows there's SciTech MGL, DirectDraw, or DIBSections. As of Windows 98 there is multimonitor support in the OS, there are a lot of ways to take advantage of that (if you have the right combination of video cards). For graphics files, am I correct in assuming there is still no PNG support? The time is pretty ripe for that. Also like I said before, the code should be put on a CVS server somewhere so people can synchronize whatever stuff they're doing to it. Anyway, the bottom line on why hardly anybody is hacking Fractint is that the code has been allowed to rot and code rots just like a dead animal on the desert pavement if you don't keep it up to date. If someone does what I said above, and then some, fractint will kick ass again just like when it was new. That's the biggest e-mail I've ever written. Time to breathe. cya Adam ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:12 PM > Excellent ideas, all, Adam. Probably be easier to implement in Linux > than in any other OS. As the source code to Fractint is available, > what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program? > (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...) > > Jack > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run > on > DOS. Neither should fractint :>. << > > On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating > systems as possible. Fractint was created and evolved under DOS. It > still > runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of. And > Fractint > runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the > aesthetic > capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my > screen > with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet > possible > with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. > > > Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible. I > didn't > mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's > completely > silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only. It would > make more > sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server > somewhere, and > binaries available simultaneously for all platforms. A lot of stuff > can't > be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running DOS > programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow. More > reliable for it to run natively. And every GUI based operating system > (yes, > all of them) allow programs to run as full screen. I just think that > it > would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE > and > such crap. It also discourages the nubies. And I know I mentioned > this > before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL accelerated > 3D, > multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run > under DOS. > > Adam > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:36:37 -0500 > Jack wrote: > > > Excellent ideas, all, Adam. Probably be easier to implement in Linux > > than in any other OS. As the source code to Fractint is available, > > what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program? > > (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...) > > Fractint has had a Linux port for years. It is called Xfractint. We are > actively improving it now. Yeah, maybe it's high time to improve everything. It's not just about porting to Linux and making that version cool. Adam Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Childress Subject: (fractint) UF 1600 x 1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:31:05 -0700 (PDT) > with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet > possible > with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can support 1600x1200, you can view an image without window clutter. You can't currently zoom, etc. in that mode, but the viewing capability is there. Ken... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike and Linda Allison" Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 00:06:11 -0700 Hi, Chris! Welcome! Try: http://www.geocities.com/~gumbycat/mirror.html Hope that helps! Linda Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: (fractint) FractInt source Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:07:13 GMT I know I've probably said this before, but has anyone thought of porting FractInt to Java? It would then run on most systems. On the down side, I've now got over my initial excitement about using Java (it's the first OOP language I ever used), and I'm beginning to see its limitations. The JDK, as it arrives from Sun, contains no "developement" tools at all, just a compiler. Java is based on C syntax (which I *HATE*... why the hell do I have to put brackets around the expressing in an 'if' statment?). The compiler only runs from DOS, and Java programs can only be started from DOS, but even DOS-based Java programs require that Windows is running (some garbage about long filenames or something). And you seem to spend the whole time writing empty error-trapping blocks. Oh, and the graphics library sucks. Maybe this is why no one has ported it yet. Mmm. I certainly think that writing a fractal generator in an object-oriented language would be extreamly cool. FractInt's stuff about the built-in fractal types having tree method pointers is basically a simulation of object orientation. You could perhaps do the same thing with many other aspects of FractInt (bailout tests, symmetry, passes options, new inside/outside options, file formats...). At one point I was trying to do all this myself, but it seems I am too poor a programmer to do it with Java (and I've been programming day and night, every waking hour since I was 9 years old... no wonder no-one uses Java!). Having bored you all with that mound of rubbish, I was wondering if someone could make it so that FractInt can superimpose a fractal orbit over a finished fractal. Currently (v19.6) you can put the orbit in a window, or you can have it fullscreen and put the fractal in a window. Annoying/unnessesary. And if anyone is interested in MIDI support (I can't imagine what for in a graphics program but there we are) then let me know. I'm into that stuff. khcm8ac@dmu.ac.uk Nam et ipsa scientia potestus est! (Sir Francis Bacon) Andrew Orphi Coppin DMU MK. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Taiyo Takusagawa Subject: (fractint) bug in Xfractint Date: 16 Apr 1999 02:11:38 -0700 I found a bug in Xfractint (3.04): in realdos.c (line 1622), "suffix" is declared as a 4096 byte array. in cmdfiles.c (lines 804, 805, 813, 822), suffix is treated as a 10000 byte array. This ends up clobbering memory and overwriting the color table and the xxmin variable. (At least on my system.) -ken Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) UF 1600 x 1200 Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:56:53 -1000 On 15 Apr 99 at 22:31, Kenneth Childress wrote: > > with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet > > possible > > with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. > > UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can > support 1600x1200, you can view an image without window > clutter. You can't currently zoom, etc. in that mode, > but the viewing capability is there. Boo, hiss! You should be able to do everything on the full screen that you could with it cluttered up with menu bars and dumb graphic doohickies like toolbars and buttons. David the nostalgic missing the Targa TIPS graphics program! Random quote for this nanosecond: May the Great God of Databases always maintain a proper relationship with you. (D.Jones) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) FractInt source Date: 15 Apr 1999 23:56:54 -1000 On 16 Apr 99 at 9:07, Andrew Coppin wrote: > it with Java (and I've been programming day and night, > every waking hour since I was 9 years old... no wonder > no-one uses Java!). Sorry, but that just means you've picked up too many bad programming habits to adapt to the OOP mindset. Part of the problem with updating Fractint seems to me that the user interface is interwoven with the processing backend. Oh, yeah, for Tim - FWIW, I think awhile back you mentioned something about difficulties in making the switch to event-driven programming. Well, if you consider Fractint a fractal-generating engine that responds to keyboard events, you're already doing event-driven programming. Or was that someone else who mentioned that? Just curious, how about packaging the Fractint processing end as a DLL? Then different people could write front ends to it - a clean screen one for some, a clutter of GUI elements for others, heck! even a command line interface for those who want to kick off a long imaging session in the background without wasting memory and resources on an unnecessary display. Another blast of bits from David http://www.aloha.net/~shauna/ http://www.hawastsoc.org/ For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: http://www.surfreporthawaii.com Random Thought for this Nanosecond Abort, Retry, Format c: /u ? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patyves@aol.com Subject: (fractint) thanks to Kenneth Cole and Leon Duych Date: 16 Apr 1999 07:59:33 EDT Patrick Lourde Patyves@aol.com Thanks for Kenneth Cole and Leon Dutch for their help. As you said I download the 19.6 version of fractint but it's very difficult for me to understand how to work with it under dos. It is very different from my winfract version, and I'm not able to translate the English lingo into French. Do you know if their is some French web pages who can explain me all the features of the 19.6 fractint? For Kenneth Cole: you tell me you use winfract to teach about fractals creation to your middle school students (ages 11, 14). What about me, (I'm 36 years old!!! ) , is it hopeless ;-) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Critzygal@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 08:13:03 EDT Thank you for the information. Chris Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Baker" Subject: Re: (fractint) 1600x1200(GUI's and ports) Date: 16 Apr 1999 12:28:47 GMT As most of us know, Tim is one of the main parties responsible for the current version of Fractint. He is the only one that I see active on this list. Perhaps it would be possible to strip down the source code and attempt an implementation of your ideas. Who is responsible for approving what actually gets released in an upgrade? Just some thoughts, maybe if several of us took the time to do it.... Jack ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Thu Apr 15 21:31:25 1999 Received: from [198.60.22.7] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id MHotMailB8E0081300FAD1017079C63C1607F1AA0; Thu Apr 15 21:31:25 1999 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1)id 10Y0FG-0001Pp-00for fractint-goout@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:28:50 -0600 Message-ID: <001101be87c2$074f5f40$c471cfa9@mrob> References: <19990416031211.97621.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Uh, I don't see any reason why implementing it would be any more or less difficult on Windows, Linux, Be, Mac OS X, whatever.. I think the entire codebase needs a big overhaul. That would be the hardest part. On the bright side there would be a hell of a lot more deleting than writing. I can't believe they're still compiling 19.6 with Turbo C++. Christ, does anybody even care about Fractint anymore? Obviously the people on this list do but I don't know about the people who are supposed to be maintaining the thing. I wouldn't even touch it unless I thought I could get rid of the 16 bit crap. As far as GUIs go, that stuff would all have to be abstracted (second hardest part). Still no big deal, even I could probably find the time to do that. For DOS either the default textmode GUI or some hacked up window manager would have to be used. For Windows you'd probably want to write straight to the Win32 API since MFC sucks and most of the Fractint code is already in C (good thing) anyhow, you want to stay consistent and not start farting around with C++ unless there's a good reason. There is a GTK+ implementation for Win32 that is kind of interesting but it looks all weird and unixy unless you package a "theme" with the app (that would actually be cool). For X Windows you'd want to use GTK+ (with or without gnome), it's becoming kind of a "standard" toolkit. For Mac OS X, NeXTStep, etc. you would write to OpenStep (you could also use this on X Windows I guess); you have to learn to code in Objective C for that. As far as video, you'd want SciTech MGL for DOS and Linux without a doubt. No more hacking video mode settings and all that ridiculous shit. I know it means using a library, but it's a free library with source code. For Windows there's SciTech MGL, DirectDraw, or DIBSections. As of Windows 98 there is multimonitor support in the OS, there are a lot of ways to take advantage of that (if you have the right combination of video cards). For graphics files, am I correct in assuming there is still no PNG support? The time is pretty ripe for that. Also like I said before, the code should be put on a CVS server somewhere so people can synchronize whatever stuff they're doing to it. Anyway, the bottom line on why hardly anybody is hacking Fractint is that the code has been allowed to rot and code rots just like a dead animal on the desert pavement if you don't keep it up to date. If someone does what I said above, and then some, fractint will kick ass again just like when it was new. That's the biggest e-mail I've ever written. Time to breathe. cya Adam ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 10:12 PM > Excellent ideas, all, Adam. Probably be easier to implement in Linux > than in any other OS. As the source code to Fractint is available, > what is keeping the hackers from working their magic on the program? > (Maybe just to busy "playing" with the software to adapt it...) > > Jack > -------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >> There are plenty of games that run at 1600x1200. None of them run > on > DOS. Neither should fractint :>. << > > On the contrary, Fractint should run under as many different operating > systems as possible. Fractint was created and evolved under DOS. It > still > runs faster under DOS than any GUI system that I know of. And > Fractint > runs 1600x1200 just fine under DOS. I certainly appreciate the > aesthetic > capability of being able to view an entire 1600x1200 image on my > screen > with no other Window-type clutter. I don't think that this is yet > possible > with Ultra Fractal, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. > > > Of course Fractint should run on as many platforms as possible. I > didn't > mean it the way I said it, what I really meant was that it's > completely > silly for the base Fractint distribution to be DOS-only. It would > make more > sense to have one portable set of source code on a CVS server > somewhere, and > binaries available simultaneously for all platforms. A lot of stuff > can't > be trusted to run just fine under DOS - I tend to consider running DOS > programs under modern operating systems kind of a hack anyhow. More > reliable for it to run natively. And every GUI based operating system > (yes, > all of them) allow programs to run as full screen. I just think that > it > would save a lot of headaches to not have to mess around with UniVBE > and > such crap. It also discourages the nubies. And I know I mentioned > this > before but it would kick ass if Fractint supported OpenGL accelerated > 3D, > multimonitor, and other stuff that would have to be hacked to run > under DOS. > > Adam > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) UF 1600 x 120 Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:33:57 -0400 >> UF has a full screen viewing mode, so if your system can support 1600x1200, you can view an image without window clutter. You can't currently zoom, etc. in that mode, but the viewing capability is there. <= < Ah, but I would like to zoom, manipulate color palettes, generate images,= etc. in that mode, just like I do in Fractint. That is what I meant - I= may not have communicated that fully after all. I like to be able to vie= w the entire image when I'm doing any of those things. And the Fractint browser is a very significant tool that I miss in other fractal programs.= Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Critzygal@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:43:05 EDT Thank you Linda. Will check it out. :o) Chris Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry N Merenoff <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: Source Code Date: 16 Apr 1999 10:19:38 -0400 Let's stop all this swearing, especially Adam. And C++ is a wonderful language, and I think it is rather necessary to use it, rather than C, fo= r Windows programming. I don't know about Java, but it would probably be a good idea also. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:14:41 -0500 > Let's stop all this swearing, especially Adam. Ok, sorry. > And C++ is a wonderful > language, and I think it is rather necessary to use it, rather than C, for > Windows programming. I don't know about Java, but it would probably be a > good idea also. I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC. It's all a matter of programming style and isn't tied to a particular operating system. The trouble with Java is (a) all the code is already in C and asm and there's a lot of it, (b) it's really not cross platform unless you're planning on hacking, and (c) it's generally slow unless you're planning on hacking. There are reasons why no mainstream applications written in Java have taken off. Since Fractint is a fractal generation program, I seriously doubt users would welcome the speed hit in the backend. I can probably be more efficient and portable in C or C++ than I can in Java. But Java is good for some things - for example if Fractint had a plugin architecture of some kind Java could probably benefit that. cya Adam Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:42:09 -0500 Adam, - I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even - beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC. You mean aside from the general program design benefits OOP provides; the better isolation of program components from each other, the reduced maintenance time, etc. Whether you use MFC, OWL, or a class library of your own making, C++ (and OOP in general) provide plenty of benefits to creating GUI programs because of the large degree of shared code, and the ease with which you can structure that code into a sensible hierarchy. As someone who learned Windows programming in the days of Windows 3.1, I can honestly tell you that a class library takes a lot of the grunt work out of writing Windows code. Yes, you can write libraries in C... but this is exactly the sort of thing C++ is good at, and doing it in C just because you want to avoid C++ is (in my opinion) a little silly. To me, it certainly seems that the best progression for FractInt--to ensure that it runs on multiple platforms--is to go ahead and separate the fractal engine from the interface code, quite possibly in the form of classes for each, and then allow the interface code to be customized for each platform. Given how similar the fractal generating code is, I think it too would benefit from being OOPified. - The trouble with Java is [...] I agree with you completely here. Java is nice in concept, a pain in the neck in reality. And slow. Damien M. Jones \\ dmj@fractalus.com \\ Fractalus Galleries & Info: \\ http://www.fractalus.com/ Please do not post my e-mail address on a web site or in a newsgroup. Thank you. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Leggett" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Source Code Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:53:39 -0500 > - I can't think of a single reason why C++ is necessary or even > - beneficial to Windows unless you're using MFC. > > You mean aside from the general program design benefits OOP provides; the > better isolation of program components from each other, the reduced > maintenance time, etc. Whether you use MFC, OWL, or a class library of your > own making, C++ (and OOP in general) provide plenty of benefits to creating > GUI programs because of the large degree of shared code, and the ease with > which you can structure that code into a sensible hierarchy. > > As someone who learned Windows programming in the days of Windows 3.1, I > can honestly tell you that a class library takes a lot of the grunt work > out of writing Windows code. Yes, you can write libraries in C... but this > is exactly the sort of thing C++ is good at, and doing it in C just because > you want to avoid C++ is (in my opinion) a little silly. Yeah, I know. I was only thinking of staying consistent with the code that's already there, but I guess it doesn't matter because the whole thing needs to be ripped apart anyhow. It would be good to see the backend separated into its own completely independent library. I just hope that if that happens all the xfractint, winfract, etc. become one portable project, it's ridiculous the way things are right now. Adam p.s. I wrote for Windows 2.0 :) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Fargher" Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 11:38:07 +0700 On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote: >>There are a couple of pages. Try >WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error. -Rob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wdecker@csc.com Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400 Probably because of all upper case. Try http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm Bill Decker fargher@poboxes.com on 04/16/99 12:38:07 AM Please respond to fractint@lists.xmission.com cc: (bcc: William J Decker/SSD/CSC) On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote: >>There are a couple of pages. Try >WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error. -Rob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mitchell Berger" Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 15:20:31 -0400 http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/fractalintro.htm and follow your nose. There are lots of good instructions out there. Mitch -----Original Message----- >On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote: > >>>There are a couple of pages. Try >>WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML > > Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error. > >-Rob > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Baker" Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 19:39:29 GMT Sorry. Try http//wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/graphics_hints.htm If that does not work, drop everything after '.com', and go to the link at the bottom of the page. Jack On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 03:06:50 GMT, Jack Baker wrote: >>There are a couple of pages. Try >WIZZLE.SIMPLENET.COM/FRACTALS/HINTS/TIPS-FRACTINT.HTML Hmm, this URL threw a 404 page not found error. -Rob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rob Fargher" Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 13:45:32 +0700 On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400, wdecker@csc.com wrote: >Probably because of all upper case. Try > >http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm > >Bill Decker Thanks, Bill. That worked. Cheers, Rob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Critzygal@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) beginner Date: 16 Apr 1999 18:47:12 EDT In a message dated 4/16/99 4:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fargher@POBoxes.com writes: << On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:48:32 -0400, wdecker@csc.com wrote: >Probably because of all upper case. Try > >http://wizzle.simplenet.com/fractals/hints/tips-fractint.htm > >Bill Decker Thanks, Bill. That worked. Cheers, Rob >> it worked for me also....thank all of you good people for the help. :o) Chris Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Wilczynski" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint video board Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:20:41 -0700 I'm very pleased with my Matrox board. Although a real dunce when it comes to hardware and installation, I had absolutely no probs using Sylvie's driver. The result is great on my 19" monitor. Angela aka wizzle Sylvie Gallet wrote: > > Tim, > > >> Here are my requirements for a video board. I don't know if this board > >> exists :-) > > Me neither! > > >> 1. Must support 1600x1200 up to 15 bit color, and lower rez modes up to > >> 24 bit color, with vertical refresh 75 hz or better. This means an 4 mb > >> board at least, though I prefer 8 mb. > > The Millennium G200 AGP (8mb) supports 1600x1200x64k colors at 60 Hz, > 1280x1024x64k, 1024x768x16.8M. > > >> 2. Must have a way to contro