From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 Date: 01 Dec 2000 13:03:45 -0000 >From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >To: "INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com" >Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:16:21 -0500 > >Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com > >I've tried that. It seems to draw a different image in Mandelbrot mode, < > >Did you remember to change the starting value to the new critical point? > >Sincerely, > Collin Yep. If you use Z^3 - 3A^2Z + B, the critical points are +A and -A. If you use Z^3 + TZ + B, I presume the critical points would be +Sqrt(T/3) and -Sqrt(T/3). This still gives a different image. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 01-12-00 (4D-01 [NA]) Date: 01 Dec 2000 09:44:46 -0600 Jim Muth wrote: > I have not given today's image a name or rating because it not a > separate unit, but rather the first in a series of 12 images, > which must be considered as the unit. The 12 GIFs of Christmas, eh? ;-| Lookin' forward to it!! -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 Date: 01 Dec 2000 13:27:30 -0500 >I've tried that. It seems to draw a different image in Mandelbrot mode, >though the Julia sets are still the same (if you change parameters). That's because in one case the image is the A plane with 3A^2z the z term, and in the other case the image is in the same plane but using the coordinate T = 3A^2. Changing between A and 3A^2 enlarges the Mandelbrot in that plane by a factor of three and doubles it up radially about the origin, into two somewhat distorted symmetrical copies -- a change of the coordinates in which the plane is viewed. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 Date: 02 Dec 2000 14:22:35 +1300 At 13:03 01/12/2000 +0000, Andrew wrote: >>From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> >> >>Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >> >I've tried that. It seems to draw a different image in Mandelbrot mode, < >> >>Did you remember to change the starting value to the new critical point? >> >>Sincerely, >> Collin > >Yep. If you use Z^3 - 3A^2Z + B, the critical points are +A and -A. If you >use Z^3 + TZ + B, I presume the critical points would be +Sqrt(T/3) and >-Sqrt(T/3). This still gives a different image. Which would appear to be the rationale behind BoF's choice of parameterisation. You said as how "The BoF version gives less 'mangled' looking images.". Morgan L. Owens "Deeply disturbed by the fact that he'd forgotten what a critical point is." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 02-12-00 (4D-02 [NA]) Date: 01 Dec 2000 23:41:53 -0500 (EST) FOTD -- December 02, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: With today's image we begin the journey into the fourth dimension. The journey will not be an easy one to visualize, but by taking it one step at a time, we may come to at least a vague understanding of that next higher space. One of the best ways of understanding four-dimensional geometry is by breaking it down into three-dimensional sections and comparing it to the solid geometry of three dimensions. Keeping this in mind, today's image and discussion remains within the realm of three-dimensional space. I have given today's image a new color palette, which emphasizes the contrast between the low-iteration features that I call Julia stuff and the high-iteration features that I call Mandelbrot stuff. In today's image, as well as in the images to follow, the Julia stuff, which lies mostly in the foreground, is colored with a banded dark blue and red palette. By comparison, the Mandelbrot stuff, which lies mostly in the background, is colored a brilliant bluish-white. Today's image is a perturbed version of the period-4 northeast bud of the Mandelbrot set, which appeared in all its perfection in yesterday's FOTD. The scene has been perturbed by setting initial Z to 0.36775+0i. This perturbation moves the position of the illustrated slice 0.36775 along the real(Z) axis, while keeping the orientation of the slice unchanged. The most striking feature of the new image is the ghost of the original bud, which is still there in the same position, glowing a brilliant blue-white, partially obscured behind the broad but dull Julia-stuff arms in the foreground. In fact, unless the Julia stuff totally obscures the background, giving a blank screen, the remnants of the original bud are always visible in the same position regardless of the value of initial real(Z). Since changing the value of initial Z moves the illustrated slice without rotating it, and the ghost of the period-4 bud always retains the same circular shape, size and position, the three-dimensional shape of the Mandelbrot bud must be a cylinder. This cylinder is not continuous, but broken in many places by the low-iteration Julia stuff. Wherever it reappears however, the cylinder is always in the same location and of the same size and shape. The entire border of the classic Mandelbrot set (but not the filaments) behaves in the same manner, thus the Mandelbrot set can be taken as a three-dimensional collection of parallel tangent cylinders lying along the real(Z) axis. To keep things three-dimensional I have ignored the imag(Z) axis, but I will discuss this aspect when we shift to higher space in a few days. Today's image renders in 30 seconds from the parameter file, and downloads in a minute or so from the Usenet binary group: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals In an hour or so, the image will also be available on Paul Lee's web site at the URL: The fractal weather today was cloudy and cold, with a few flurries of snow, which amounted to little. The temperature of 37F (3C) was too chilly for the cats, who passed the day by the radiators of their choice. It's now time for me to shut down the fractal shoppe and call it a night. But I'll be back tomorrow with a most curious continuation of the 4-D saga. Until then, take care, and don't let hyperspace make you hyper. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-02 { ; time=0:00:30.34 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=0/0/0.36775/0/0.281/0.531 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 Date: 02 Dec 2000 01:19:34 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >Yep. If you use Z^3 - 3A^2Z + B, the critical points are +A and -A. If y= ou use Z^3 + TZ + B, I presume the critical points would be +Sqrt(T/3) and = -Sqrt(T/3). This still gives a different image.< That's +Sqrt(-T/3) and -Sqrt(-T/3) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed II PhD Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-11-00 Date: 02 Dec 2000 17:50:15 -0600 Please . . . . . "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: > Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com > >Yep. If you use Z^3 - 3A^2Z + B, the critical points are +A and -A. If you > > use Z^3 + TZ + B, I presume the critical points would be +Sqrt(T/3) and > -Sqrt(T/3). This still gives a different image.< > > That's +Sqrt(-T/3) and -Sqrt(-T/3) > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 02 Dec 2000 19:12:08 -0500 If you're going to explore the general cubic, why not do it in style? --- cubeg2.frm --- CubeG2_Ma { ; a-plane M-set ; p2 = b ; real(p3) affects coloring (outside=real); default is 64. ; imag(p3) affects periodicity checking -- smaller is less sensitive, negative disables; default is 0.001. ; Use periodicity=0 if you seem to be getting all blank screens. a = pixel, b = p2, c = real(p3), t = imag(p3), ta2 = 3*a*a IF(c==0) c = 64 ENDIF IF(t==0) t = 0.001 ENDIF z1 = a, z2 = -a, z1done = 0, z2done = 0, z1b = a, z2b = -a, even = 0, i = 0, m = maxit-1, done = 0: IF(z1done==0) z1 = (sqr(z1)-ta2)*z1+b IF(lastsqr>2000) z1done=1 ELSE IF(t>0) IF(even==1) z1b = (sqr(z1b)-ta2)*z1b+b ENDIF IF(|z1-z1b|2000) z2done=1 ELSE IF(t>0) IF(even==1) z2b = (sqr(z2b)-ta2)*z2b+b ENDIF IF(|z2-z2b|0 && z2done>0) done = 1 ci = z1done + z2done*2 - 3 z = c*ci-7 ENDIF done == 0 } CubeG2_Mb { ; b-plane M-set ; p1 = a ; real(p3) affects coloring (outside=real); default is 64. ; imag(p3) affects periodicity checking -- smaller is less sensitive, negative disables; default is 0.001. ; Use periodicity=0 if you seem to be getting all blank screens. a = p1, b = pixel, c = real(p3), t = imag(p3), ta2 = 3*a*a IF(c==0) c = 64 ENDIF IF(t==0) t = 0.001 ENDIF z1 = a, z2 = -a, z1done = 0, z2done = 0, z1b = a, z2b = -a, even = 0, i = 0, m = maxit-1, done = 0: IF(z1done==0) z1 = (sqr(z1)-ta2)*z1+b IF(lastsqr>2000) z1done=1 ELSE IF(t>0) IF(even==1) z1b = (sqr(z1b)-ta2)*z1b+b ENDIF IF(|z1-z1b|2000) z2done=1 ELSE IF(t>0) IF(even==1) z2b = (sqr(z2b)-ta2)*z2b+b ENDIF IF(|z2-z2b|0 && z2done>0) done = 1 ci = z1done + z2done*2 - 3 z = c*ci-7 ENDIF done == 0 } CubeG2_J { ; Julia sets ; p1 = a, p2 = b a = p1, b = p2, ta2 = 3*a*a, z = pixel: z = (sqr(z)-ta2)*z+b, lastsqr<2000 } --- cubeg2.frm --- Those iterate z^3 + 3a^2z + b. The first one slices the M-set in the a plane, with b fixed; the second slices the M-set in the b-plane (which interects the a-plane in only a point!) with a fixed; the third produces straightforwardly the Julia sets. (Want slices of other orientations through the 4D M-set? Write your own formula. :-)) The M-set images show four kinds of colored regions, and show the fate of both critical points. The regions are based on whether both, one, the other, or neither critical point escapes. Generally you see two Mandelbrot shapes overlapping -- the Mandelbrot images for each critical point -- but they influence one another, as will be shown by some of the images in the par to follow. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) General Cubic Exploration Par Date: 02 Dec 2000 19:14:46 -0500 27 pars. Some take a while, others are fast, all look good. Lines limited to 72 characters -- hope this stops Hotmail from mangling them. Use with formula in previous message -- no other formulas necessary, nor colormap files. --- cubeg2.par --- cg2_0001 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.492669/0.0664928/3.324822 params=0.7/-0.14/0.7/-0.14/0/0.0001 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000uh6<16>XE6VC6UB6<2>P56O46O57<37>OaRObSOcS<3>OfU<2>XtZ<63>rvBrv\ BrvBsvAsvAtw9<11>eWNcTObRQ<2>ZKTXHVYJY<2>_Pf`Ri`Ri<55>ertesuesuetuetufuv\ <28>uh6 } cg2_0002 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.36801/0.090021/14.45575 params=0.7/-0.14/0.7/-0.14/32/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000h6u<16>E6XC6VB6U<3>46O<38>aRObSOcSO<3>fUO<2>tZX<63>vBrvBrvBrvA\ svAsw9t<11>WNeTOcRQb<3>HVX<3>Pf_Ri`Ri`<55>rtesuesuetuetueuvf<28>h6u } cg2_0003 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.37432144208549200/+0.13168928634904300/62.85108 params=0.7/-0.14/0.7/-0.14/250/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<41>nChoCiqCj<2>tDmvEovEo<42>M7aL7aK7`J7`I6_<58>IVZIWZIWZ<3>JY\ YKYYLZY<38>tocuocvpc<3>zrd<8>aNHZJEWFB<3>K00<9>cMUeOXgR_<2>mXhp_lp`l<14>\ zzz } cg2_0004 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.38746883490456420/+0.13127440691215990/273.2656 params=0.7/-0.14/0.7/-0.14/250/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<41>CnhCoiCqj<2>DtmEvoEvo<42>7Ma7La7K`7J`6I_<58>VIZWIZWIZ<3>YJ\ YYKYZLY<38>otcoucpvc<3>rzd<8>NaHJZEFWB<3>0K0<9>McUOeXRg_<2>Xmh_pl`pl<14>\ zzz } cg2_0006 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma passes=t center-mag=-0.38901178721166680/+0.13304115025015490/109306.2 params=0.7/-0.14/0.7/-0.14/200/1e-010 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000945<3>211000000<87>odOpdOpeOqePqfPrfPsgQthR<58>WhSVhSVhS<3>TgT\ TfTSeT<38>B6NB5NA4N<3>80M<8>cPigSlkVo<3>zfz<9>dNXbLU_JR<2>UDIRAEQAE<8>B4\ 6 } cg2_0005 { ; 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Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0.02974/0.761922/10.27158 params=0.7/-0.14/-0.1/0.21/40/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>0A00C00F00H00K0<18>BU7CU7DV7<4>GYAHYAIZA<6>MaDMbDNbD<3>QdFR\ eGSeG<11>amMbnNcoN<3>fqPfrPgsQhtR<58>hWShVShVS<3>gTTfTTeST<38>6BN5BN4AN<\ 3>08M<8>PciSglVko<3>fzz<7>`tq`sp`ro<45>000 } cg2_0010 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=+0.02847108504398776/+0.83021059713168220/52.94629 params=0.7/-0.14/-0.1/0.21/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>0A00C00F00H00K0<18>7UB7UC7VD<4>AYGAYHAZI<6>DaMDbMDbN<3>FdQG\ eRGeS<11>MmaNnbNoc<3>PqfPrfQsgRth<58>SWhSVhSVh<3>TTgTTfTSe<38>NB6NB5NA4<\ 2>N91M80OB2<7>icPlgSokV<3>zzf<7>qt`ps`or`<45>000 } cg2_0011 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=+0.05207253958944227/+0.74872095958279040/65.01 params=0.7/-0.14/-0.1/0.21/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=zzz<3>zpzznzzkzzizzfz<18>oXsnXsmWs<4>jTpiTphSp<6>dPmdOmcOm<3>`Mk_\ LjZLj<11>PDdOCcNBc<3>K9aK8aJ7`I6_<58>IVZIWZIWZ<3>JYYKYYLZY<38>tocuocvpc<\ 3>zrd<8>aNHZJEWFB<3>K00<7>Q69Q7AQ8B<45>zzz } cg2_0012 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.05375333724340224/+0.74186669100391160/52.94629 params=0.7/-0.14/-0.1/0.21/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>00A00C00F00H00K<18>7BU7CU7DV<4>AGYAHYAIZ<6>DMaDMbDNb<3>FQdG\ ReGSe<11>MamNbnNco<3>PfqPfrQgsRht<58>ShWShVShV<3>TgTTfTTeS<38>N6BN5BN4A<\ 2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0013 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0.7/-0.14/0.05/0.023/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>00A00C00F00H00K<18>7BU7CU7DV<4>AGYAHYAIZ<6>DMaDMbDNb<3>FQdG\ ReGSe<11>MamNbnNco<3>PfqPfrQgsRht<58>ShWShVShV<3>TgTTfTTeS<38>N6BN5BN4A<\ 2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0014 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0.918866/-0.00391134/7.751938 params=0.7/-0.14/0.05/0.023/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>00A00C00F00H00K<18>7BU7CU7DV<4>AGYAHYAIZ<6>DMaDMbDNb<3>FQdG\ ReGSe<11>MamNbnNco<3>PfqPfrQgsRht<58>ShWShVShV<3>TgTTfTTeS<38>N6BN5BN4A<\ 2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0015 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0.0176735/0.73302/3.874419 params=0.7/-0.14/0.05/0.023/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>00A00C00F00H00K<18>7BU7CU7DV<4>AGYAHYAIZ<6>DMaDMbDNb<3>FQdG\ ReGSe<11>MamNbnNco<3>PfqPfrQgsRht<58>ShWShVShV<3>TgTTfTTeS<38>N6BN5BN4A<\ 2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0016 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=-0.10141222913000980/+0.55938089804432870/77.48838 params=0.7/-0.14/0.05/0.023/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>00A00C00F00H00K<18>7BU7CU7DV<4>AGYAHYAIZ<6>DMaDMbDNb<3>FQdG\ ReGSe<11>MamNbnNco<3>PfqPfrQgsRht<58>ShWShVShV<3>TgTTfTTeS<38>N6BN5BN4A<\ 2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0017 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=+0.30319401395425170/+0.50251070143415900/45.05139 params=0.7/-0.14/0.05/0.023/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>0A00C00F00H00K0<18>7UB7UC7VD<4>AYGAYHAZI<6>DaMDbMDbN<3>FdQG\ eRGeS<11>MmaNnbNoc<3>PqfPrfQsgRth<51>SZhSYhSYhSXhSXh<42>BPGAPFAPF<2>8OC7\ OC6NB5NB4NA<3>0M8<8>PicSlgVok<3>fzz<7>`qt`ps`or<45>000 } cg2_0018 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0.7/-0.14/0/0/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>0A00C00F00H00K0<18>7UB7UC7VD<4>AYGAYHAZI<6>DaMDbMDbN<3>FdQG\ eRGeS<11>MmaNnbNoc<3>PqfPrfQsgRth<51>SZhSYhSYhSXhSXh<42>BPGAPFAPF<2>8OC7\ OC6NB5NB4NA<3>0M8<8>PicSlgVok<3>fzz<7>`qt`ps`or<45>000 } cg2_0019 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=cubeg2_ma center-mag=0.453568/-0.477184/13.33333 params=0.7/-0.14/0/0/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<3>A00C00F00H00K00<18>U7BU7CV7D<4>YAGYAHZAI<6>aDMbDMbDN<3>dFQe\ GReGS<11>mManNboNc<3>qPfrPfsQgtRh<51>ZShYShYShXShXSh<42>PBGPAFPAF<2>O8CO\ 7CN6BN5BN4A<2>N19M08O2B<7>iPclSgoVk<3>zfz<7>q`tp`so`r<45>000 } cg2_0020 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_Mb center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.12/0.301/0/0/40/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=JDQDJQ<41>NRcNRcORcORdORdPSe<12>UXjVYjVYk<43>nwpowpoxppxppyp<10>v\ zvwzwxzx<2>zzzzzzzyy<8>zuuzttztt<2>yrryrrxrrxqrwqr<23>jhrjhrigr<22>bZoaZ\ naYn`Yn`Yn<3>_WmZVmZVm<21>SNbRMaRMaQL`QL`<6>NIXNIXNIXNIWMHW<11>JDQ } cg2_0021 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_Mb center-mag=0.168133/-1.2575/7.751938 params=-0.12/0.301/0/0/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=QJDQDJ<41>cNRcNRcORdORdORePS<12>jUXjVYkVY<43>pnwpowpoxppxppy<10>v\ vzwwzxxz<2>zzzzzzyzy<8>uzutzttzt<2>ryrryrrxrrxqrwq<23>rjhrjhrig<22>obZna\ ZnaYn`Yn`Y<3>m_WmZVmZV<21>bSNaRMaRM`QL`QL<6>XNIXNIXNIWNIWMH<11>QJD } cg2_0022 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_Mb center-mag=0.168133/-1.2575/7.751938 params=-0.41/-0.21/0/0/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=QJDQDJ<41>cNRcNRcORdORdORePS<12>jUXjVYkVY<43>pnwpowpoxppxppy<10>v\ vzwwzxxz<2>zzzzzzyzy<8>uzutzttzt<2>ryrryrrxrrxqrwq<23>rjhrjhrig<22>obZna\ ZnaYn`Yn`Y<3>m_WmZVmZV<21>bSNaRMaRM`QL`QL<6>XNIXNIXNIWNIWMH<11>QJD } cg2_0023 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_Mb center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.41/-0.21/0/0/40/1e-007 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 outside=real logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=JQDDQJ<41>NcRNcROcROdROdRPeS<12>UjXVjYVkY<43>npwopwopxppxppy<10>v\ vzwwzxxz<2>zzzzzzzyy<8>zuuzttztt<2>yrryrrxrrxrqwrq<23>jrhjrhirg<22>boZan\ ZanY`nY`nY<3>_mWZmVZmV<21>SbNRaMRaMQ`LQ`L<6>NXINXINXINWIMWH<11>JQD } cg2_0024 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_J center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.1652/0.36254/-0.06771000000000001/-0.643 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000UKK<6>iZUk`VnbW<3>wjazmczmc<25>oxvoxwnyx<2>mzzmzzlyy<72>34N33M\ 22M<2>00K00K10K<38>SFMTFMTFM<3>WHMXINXINXIN<77>zmU } cg2_0025 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_J center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.5216333017975402/0.2199346348460341/-0.3903440525528733/-0.222\ 4143192846462 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000UKK<6>iZUk`VnbW<3>wjazmczmc<25>oxvoxwnyx<2>mzzmzzlyy<72>34N33M\ 22M<2>00K00K10K<38>SFMTFMTFM<3>WHMXINXINXIN<77>zmU } cg2_0026 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_J center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0.0595487945188757/-0.5417644450209051/-0.1629477773369548/0.0682\ 2584459974969 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000KKU<6>ZUi`VkbWn<3>jawmczmcz<25>xvoxwoyxn<2>zzmzzmyyl<72>4N33M3\ 2M2<2>0K00K00K1<38>FMSFMTFMT<3>HMWINXINXINX<77>mUz } cg2_0028 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_J center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.1148559038056581/0.1194944053468429/-0.5459235990478225/0.1324\ 892422254096 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000UKK<6>iZUk`VnbW<3>wjazmczmc<25>oxvoxwnyx<2>mzzmzzlyy<72>34N33M\ 22M<2>00K00K10K<38>SFMTFMTFM<3>WHMXINXINXIN<77>zmU } --- cubeg2.par --- _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 03-12-00 (4D-03 [NA]) Date: 02 Dec 2000 20:18:33 -0500 (EST) FOTD -- December 03, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Yesterday's image demonstrated that the Northeast period-4 bud of the Mandelbrot set exists as an interrupted cylinder in the three-dimensional real(C)-imag(C)-real(Z) slice of the four- dimensional Julibrot. In today's image, which is centered on the same point as yesterday's, we'll rotate the view and observe what happens to the ghost of the bud. The orientation of today's image has been rotated 52 degrees around the Y-axis (imag[C]) toward the Rectangular direction. The slice of the image now cuts the cylinder at an oblique angle, causing the brilliant remnant of the bud to appear as an ellipse. I have done no stretching or skewing; the features of the image appear in their natural undistorted shapes. Though the Mandelbrot bud enlongates in an orderly manner, the banded Julia stuff stretches at random, with no apparent order at all. The same 4-armed spiral convergence still exists within the outline of the Mandelbrot bud, but the arms have undergone a complete change of appearance. In tomorrow's FOTD I'll rotate the image much further, leading to some totally unexpected results. Today's image is once again a very fast one from the parameter file. If the 30 seconds is still too slow, the GIF file of the image may be found at: and at: The fractal weather today was sunny but quite cold, with a temperature of 34F (1C) that kept the cats glued to their sources of heat. And speaking of being glued, I'm going to spend the rest of the evening glued to the TV, watching a junky old movie or two. Until tomorrow, take care, and see you in 24 hours. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-03 { ; time=0:00:37.54 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=0/52/0.36775/0/0.281/0.531 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 04-12-00 (4D-04 [NA]) Date: 03 Dec 2000 23:28:11 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 04, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Today brings us to the fourth in the series of 12 images illustrating a double rotation from the Mandelbrot orientation to the Julia orientation. We started with an everyday image of the period-4 bud on the northeast shore of the main bay of the Mandelbrot set. Then we shifted our view 0.36775 along the real(Z) axis, and saw that the bud was gone, but its ghost remained, showing that the bud is actually part of a cylinder. Next we rotated the view 45 degrees around the imag(C) axis, which caused the ghost of the bud to elongate into an ellipse. In today's image, which is rotated 80 degrees toward the Rectangular direction, we continue that rotation. When the plane of our view is rotated 80 degrees, it cuts the Mandelbrot bud-cylinder at such a sharp angle that the once circular bud is elongated almost beyond recognition. The low- iteration Julia material in the foreground is also elongated, in this case to an incredible degree. And whereas the ghost-bud is elongated in an orderly, predictable manner, the foreground material is stretched haphazardly, with no sense of order. This random stretching is characteristic of all Julibrot slices except those oriented in the Julia or Mandelbrot directions, or in certain equal double-rotations between the two. The parameter file of today's image once again renders in less than a minute. Also, the GIF image has been posted to: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and soon will be posted to: The fractal weather today was mostly sunny but very cold. The temperature of 30F (-1C) kept the cats snug indoors. I see by the wall clock that it's 11pm -- time to shut down. But I'll return in less than a day with the surprising fifth in the series of images. Until then, take care, and you'll rarely get dizzy from rotating a fractal. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-04 { ; time=0:00:55.04 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=0/80/0.36775/0/0.281/0.531 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: (fractint) General Cubic Exploration Date: 04 Dec 2000 13:37:51 -0000 I have a FRACTINT.EXE which identifies itself as 20.01.03 Float-Only. When I try to run cubeg2.par, I get Oops. I couldn't understand the argument: colors=000uh6<16>XE6VC6UB6<2>P56O46O57<37>OaRObSOcS<3>OfU<2>XtZ<63>rvB Any key to continue... Any ideas, anyone? _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: (fractint) General Cubic Exploration Date: 04 Dec 2000 14:20:10 -0000 Eh oh! What the heck... Oops. I couldn't understand the argument: params=-0.5216333017975402/0.2199346348460341/-0.3903440525528733/-0.2 Any key to continue... *now* I'm puzzelled. What's there not to understand? Hmmm... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 04 Dec 2000 14:30:06 -0000 >--- cubeg2.frm --- >--- cubeg2.frm --- > >Those iterate z^3 + 3a^2z + b. Funny. It looks more like z^3 - 3a^2z + b. 8-|] >The first one slices the M-set in the a >plane, with b fixed; the second slices the M-set in the b-plane (which >interects the a-plane in only a point!) with a fixed; the third produces >straightforwardly the Julia sets. (Want slices of other orientations >through >the 4D M-set? Write your own formula. :-)) The M-set images show four kinds >of colored regions, and show the fate of both critical points. The regions >are based on whether both, one, the other, or neither critical point >escapes. Generally you see two Mandelbrot shapes overlapping -- the >Mandelbrot images for each critical point -- but they influence one >another, >as will be shown by some of the images in the par to follow. G. I'm going to have to analyse these formulas. I really did some of those pars (8, 15, 20 especially). I love the way the finaments seem to join to each other. Like I say, I'll have to have a dam good goggle at those formulas and try to figure how they work. PS. I bet no-one can make a formula that will show the A or B plane *and* the Julia sets using the ismand variable! It kinda fudges up for 4D mandeloids... PPS. Oh how I wish I could visualise the 4D cubic Mandeloid with POV-Ray... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 04 Dec 2000 16:44:16 -0500 >Funny. It looks more like z^3 - 3a^2z + b. 8-|] Oops :-) You're right, of course. That's the form that gives +/-a as critical points. I am afraid I have no idea why the parameter file won't work with the float-only version. You'll just have to use a bona-fide fractINT to view them... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 04 Dec 2000 18:21:08 -0600 (Tim wakes up ...) Multiple Bogey's wrote: > I am afraid I have no idea why the parameter file won't work with the > float-only version. You'll just have to use a bona-fide fractINT to view > them... I am interested in anything that works in regular fractint but not in the float-only version (with float=yes of course). I'd appreciate your emailing me the formula and par that shows the problem. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BeyerTh@t-online.de (Thomas Beyer) Subject: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 05 Dec 2000 02:34:34 +0100 Hi everyone, Try the parameter-set below, or have a look at: http://www.freenet.de/beyerth/newbug.htm The star-shaped figure within the bud is obviously an artefact caused by a bug in the manzpower-integer-routines. Did anyone notice that before, or has anyone a clue, how that bug arises? manzpower-bug { reset=2000 type=manzpower passes=1 center-mag=-0.583134/0.751948/6.441843 params=0/0/8/0 maxiter=1000 logmap=yes colors=00000e0e00eee00e0eeL0eeeLLLLLzLzLLzzzLLzLzzzLzzz000555<3>HHHKKKOO\ O<3>ccchhhmmmssszzz00z<3>z0z<3>z00<3>zz0<3>0z0<3>0zz<2>0GzVVz<3>zVz<3>zV\ V<3>zzV<3>VzV<3>Vzz<2>Vbzhhz<3>zhz<3>zhh<3>zzh<3>hzh<3>hzz<2>hlz00S<3>S0\ S<3>S00<3>SS0<3>0S0<3>0SS<2>07SEES<3>SES<3>SEE<3>SSE<3>ESE<3>ESS<2>EHSKK\ S<2>QKSSKSSKQSKOSKMSKK<2>SQKSSKQSKOSKMSKKSK<2>KSQKSSKQSKOSKMS00G<3>G0G<3\ >G00<3>GG0<3>0G0<3>0GG<2>04G88G<2>E8GG8GG8EG8CG8AG88<2>GE8GG8EG8CG8AG88G\ 8<2>8GE8GG8EG8CG8AGBBG<2>FBGGBGGBFGBDGBCGBB<2>GFBGGBFGBDGBCGBBGB<2>BGFBG\ GBFGBDGBCG000<6>000 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 05-12-00 (4D-05 [NA]) Date: 04 Dec 2000 20:50:23 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 05, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: With today's Rectangular Plane image we enter new territory. In the previous images we saw that the shape of the Mandelbrot set, with all its buds, exists as an interrupted cylinder in the 3-D section of the Julibrot defined by real(C),imag(C),real(Z). In fact the cylinder shape exists in all 3-D slices of the Julibrot that contain the whole C-plane of the classic Mandelbrot set. In yesterday's 4D-04 image, we saw that by slicing this cylinder at an increasingly acute angle, the cross section becomes an increasingly eccentric ellipse. The limiting case comes in today's image, where the slice has been rotated a full 90 degrees from the Mandelbrot orientation, and cuts the cylinder along its length. In this case, we see the walls of the cylinder as straight edges. The lower wall appears as what I call a bridge. This bridge is actually a side view of the lower valley of the original period-4 bud, which has now stretched to its limit. Such bridges and straight-edged areas exist in all the odd planes, (Elliptic, Oblate, Parabolic, Rectangular), of the Julibrot, in all the rotations between the odd planes, and in all the simple rotations between the odd planes and the Julia plane. It is immediately apparent that Mandelbrot midgets are impossible in the images that contain these straight-edges and bridges, for in such images the Mandelbrot shape has been stretched to infinity, and therefore any midgets will also be stretched to infinity. I have attached the parameters for two versions of the same image. The second image is identical to the first except that the center around which the image rotates has been dropped so that it falls on the straight upper edge of the lower bridge. It is the center of this second image that we will use as the center of the rotation to the Julia orientation. Notice also in today's image that the banded Julia stuff does not stretch to infinity, but it does twist and distort in a most curious manner in the Rectangular plane. For tomorrow's image, the 6th of the series, we shall leave the comforting familiarity of 3-D objects and launch out into the fourth dimension. The surprises we will find will make the trip worth the effort. The parameter files of both of today's images render in well under one minute. To save bandwidth, I have posted only the first image to: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and to: The fractal weather today here at Fractal Central was sunny and not too cold. The afternoon temperature of 45F (7C) and warm sun lured the cats outdoors for a brief romp before that began worrying for their meal. That's it for another day, but I'll be back in 24 hours, when we'll take off on a trip to Julia land. Until then, take care, and keep those extra dimensions coming. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-05 { ; time=0:00:40.42 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=0/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.531 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4D-05a { ; time=0:00:44.46 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=0/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: (fractint) Wada basins (4 sphere fractals) Date: 04 Dec 2000 21:15:04 -0600 Paul Bourke has added a new page to his web site that has "rendering chaotic scattering": http://www.swin.edu.au/astronomy/pbourke/fractals/wada/ Some interesting images with plenty of information. Sincerely, P.N.L. http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 05 Dec 2000 13:56:14 -0000 >From: Tim Wegner >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration >Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 18:21:08 -0600 > >(Tim wakes up ...) > >Multiple Bogey's wrote: > > > I am afraid I have no idea why the parameter file won't work with the > > float-only version. You'll just have to use a bona-fide fractINT to view > > them... > >I am interested in anything that works in regular fractint but not in >the float-only version (with float=yes of course). I'd appreciate your >emailing me the formula and par that shows the problem. > >Tim No, I just downloaded FractInt 20.03.01 - the one *with* integer math - and I still get > Oops. I couldn't understand the argument: > >colors=000uh6<16>XE6VC6UB6<2>P56O46O57<37>OaRObSOcS<3>OfU<2>XtZ<63>rvB > > Any key to continue... This isn't a float-only problem. I see two posibilities. 1) the .par I'm using is somehow messed up, 2) it's a patch 3 thing. PS. The .pars all say they were made with 20.01 patchlevel 1. How do I get my hands on that? I can't seem to find the file on the fraction FTP site... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 05 Dec 2000 20:26:26 -0500 Hi Thomas, = An very unusual artifact of integer math. Set float=3Dyes and the artifa= cts = will go away. And put float=3Dyes in your sstools.ini file to keep such = artifacts from showing up in the future. >> manzpower-bug { reset=3D2000 type=3Dmanzpower passes=3D1 center-mag=3D-0.583134/0.751948/6.441843 params=3D0/0/8/0 maxiter=3D100= 0 logmap=3Dyes colors=3D00000e0e00eee00e0eeL0eeeLLLLLzLzLLzzzLLzLzzzLzzz000555<3>HHHKKKO= O\ O<3>ccchhhmmmssszzz00z<3>z0z<3>z00<3>zz0<3>0z0<3>0zz<2>0GzVVz<3>zVz<3>zV\= V<3>zzV<3>VzV<3>Vzz<2>Vbzhhz<3>zhz<3>zhh<3>zzh<3>hzh<3>hzz<2>hlz00S<3>S0\= S<3>S00<3>SS0<3>0S0<3>0SS<2>07SEES<3>SES<3>SEE<3>SSE<3>ESE<3>ESS<2>EHSKK\= S<2>QKSSKSSKQSKOSKMSKK<2>SQKSSKQSKOSKMSKKSK<2>KSQKSSKQSKOSKMS00G<3>G0G<3\= >G00<3>GG0<3>0G0<3>0GG<2>04G88G<2>E8GG8GG8EG8CG8AG88<2>GE8GG8EG8CG8AG88G\= 8<2>8GE8GG8EG8CG8AGBBG<2>FBGGBGGBFGBDGBCGBB<2>GFBGGBFGBDGBCGBBGB<2>BGFBG\= GBFGBDGBCG000<6>000 } << Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 06-12-00 (Minibrot Interlude [6]) Date: 05 Dec 2000 21:40:00 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 06, 2000 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Due to an unexpected rush, (these things happen), I was unable to complete the discussion for the sixth in the series of illustrations of a four-dimensional rotation. But all is not lost, for I substituted a nice, (there's that word again), minibrot from the M-Mix4 formula. And the 4-D series will continue one day behind schedule in tomorrow's FOTD. The expression that was iterated to produce today's fractal is 2Z^(-1.2)+0.4Z^(-12)+(1/C). I named the picture "Minibrot Interlude" because there is a Minibrot at the center and it is an interlude between the two parts of the 4-D rotation. I rated the image a 6, which seems about right. The parameter file is a slow one, requiring over 16 minutes to render, and making a download of the GIF image file the better choice. The image file may be found on Usenet at: and in an hour or so at: The fractal weather today was partly sunny, mild in the morning but turning cold in the afternoon. The fractal cats, unable to decide where to spend the day, passed the time indoors in a bad mood. That's it for today. I'll return tomorrow with more time and further discussion about rotation in four-dimensional space. Until then, take care, and see you soon. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Minibrot_Interlude { ; time=0:16:22.22 -- SF5 on a p200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+4.95915103552808600/-0.41325256410315570\ /1.798354e+007/1/-22.499 params=2/-1.2/0.4/-12/0/0 float=y maxiter=2400 inside=0 logmap=283 periodicity=9 colors=000gme<3>S`ROYOKVKGSGCPC3OA<3>QH7VF7`D6<2>q84\ w41<2>tD9<2>rLP<3>nXYnZ_maakdcieegcg<5>WSnUQoSOp<2>M\ IsKGtKHs<5>ONjPOiQPgQQfRRd<2>SSb<3>iD9<25>FW5DX5CY5<\ 3>8_5<15>hoEjpElqF<2>stGuuHyxI<18>Xb9Va9U`8<3>OX7<3>\ QT5RS4RR4<2>TO2TO2WQB<2>bVaM9ndWiyre<3>qqaop`mp_kpZw\ uPjpY_lj<3>ZjSZjOZjJ<2>Zi61om<10>NYpPWpRVq<3>ZPq<3>y\ oF<3>ujEthEsgErfEqeDpcD<4>kgDjhCiiC<3>emCamNeoC<3>ew\ OevRezUezXezZZzcTzhJzm<3>WzjZziazidzhkzl<2>_z`czc<6>\ czc } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 06 Dec 2000 15:48:58 +1300 Andrew Coppin said: > No, I just downloaded FractInt 20.03.01 - the one *with* integer math - and > I still get > > > Oops. I couldn't understand the argument: > > >colors0uh6<16>XE6VC6UB6<2>P56O46O57<37>OaRObSOcS<3>OfU<2>XtZ<63>rvB > > > > Any key to continue... > I don't have the pars on me right at the moment, but shouldn't that first '0' be an '='? Morgan L. Owens "And shouldn't it be 'colours'?" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 05 Dec 2000 22:02:25 -0600 Andrew asked: > PS. The .pars all say they were made with 20.01 patchlevel 1. How do I get > my hands on that? I can't seem to find the file on the fraction FTP site... We generally don't leave many old developer packages up. Check out http://www.fractint.org/ftp/old/dos/ The "fradev" packages have executables. Looks like the earliest one is 20.0.10. Not sure why you would want to try. However if you think there's a good reason, I could put up more old packages. They are mainly good for discovering when a bug started. I do a kind of binary search, trying old versions until I pin point when a bug started, and then it is easy to fix. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Wegner Subject: Re: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 05 Dec 2000 22:02:25 -0600 Date sent: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:34:34 +0100 BeyerTh wrote: > The star-shaped figure within the bud is obviously an artefact caused by > a bug in the manzpower-integer-routines. > > Did anyone notice that before, or has anyone a clue, how that bug > arises? Define "bug" :-) Integer math, by definition, has very limited dynamic range. Couple that with the manzpower type (clue: "power") and you see that you are coupling a datatype with limited dynamic range with a fractal type using exponentiation, which requires a lot of dynamic range. The star-shaped figure you found is a typical artifact of integer math, and a charming one at that. Some folks have made spectacular fractals images that depend on these artifacts, and have even complained when we made any change in integer math that changed the artifacts I suggest you leave the web page up (it's a nice image, though it could use something besides the default colors) but edit the text. It's not a bug and not a surprise to experienced fractint users. Just an interesting artifact of a software algorithm designed to exploit the very earliest, FPU-less computer CPUs of the late 1980's era. I don't expect integer math to survive many (if any) future fractint versions, unless we make an extra effort to keep it out of nostalgia. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 07-12-00 (4D-06 [NA]) Date: 07 Dec 2000 00:20:26 -0500 (EST) FOTD -- December 07, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: The previous image in the series of 4-D rotation images showed the period-4 northeast bud of the M-set as it appears when viewed from the side, with the Rectangular direction displayed. At this angle the displayed slice cuts through the length of the Mandelbrot cylinder, resulting in features with perfectly straight edges and narrow straight bands which I call bridges. In the previous 4D-05 image, the screen X-axis represents imag(Z), the Y-axis imag(C), and the Z-axis real(C). How then are we to rotate the image to bring the real(Z) axis, which is now the fourth dimension, onto the screen? To find the rotation, we must rotate the entire 4-D Julibrot around the image on the screen, until the image's Z axis represents real(Z). In such a rotation, the screen image will be the axis of rotation, and therefore will show no change as every point turns in place on itself, but the rest of the unseen 3-D slice will change dramatically. Now, as we rotate around the screen's X-axis, the screen's Y-axis will rotate toward real(Z) instead of real(C). We are rotating from the Rectangu- lar direction toward the Julia direction. As the 3-D slice rotates through the fourth dimension in this manner, the shape of the cylinders themselves changes. The originally circular cylinders gradually elongate into ever more eccentric elliptic cylinders, and finally into flat, plate-like features of varying thickness. In today's image, the illustrated slice has been rotated 60 degrees from the Rectangular direction toward the Julia direction. The bridge, which appears as the brilliant feature in the background, is actually part of a 3-D plate. Since the slice of the image is cutting through this plate at an angle of only 30 degrees, the apparent width of the bridge has broadened to twice its previous value. The banded Julia stuff continues to shift and change in an almost random manner, though there is an apparent tendency for it to spread out along the bridge. In tomorrow's image, we'll continue the rotation, showing the changes that take place at an ever-increasing rate as we approach the Julia direction. The parameter file of today's image renders in one minute, about the same time it takes to get to and download the GIF image file from: or from: The fractal weather today at Fractal Central was partly sunny but quite cold, with a temperature of 30F (-1C) that kept even the thoughts of the outdoors from the minds of the fractal cats. I'll return in 21 hours or so with further rotation of the image. Until then, take care, and practice fractal conservation. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-06 { ; time=0:01:00.92 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.4\ 1667 params=60/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 07 Dec 2000 13:16:35 -0000 >From: >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration >Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 15:48:58 +1300 > >Andrew Coppin said: > > > No, I just downloaded FractInt 20.03.01 - the one *with* integer math - >and > > I still get > > > > > Oops. I couldn't understand the argument: > > > > >colors0uh6<16>XE6VC6UB6<2>P56O46O57<37>OaRObSOcS<3>OfU<2>XtZ<63>rvB > > > > > > Any key to continue... > > >I don't have the pars on me right at the moment, but shouldn't that first >'0' >be an '='? Well, in my original message it *was* colors=000uh6<16>XE6... >Morgan L. Owens >"And shouldn't it be 'colours'?" Nope. The FractInt docs definitly say 'colors'! Maybe they should allow *both* spellings to be valid, like POV-Ray does... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) General cubic exploration [Solved!] Date: 07 Dec 2000 13:26:01 -0000 I tried using patch 1, and I still get the same problem. Ah ha! But I managed to fix it! I took the colors=... line and changed the wordwrapping to make all the lines a few charactors shorter, and hey presto! It now works. Odviously fractint can only recognise so many charactors per line or something... Andrew. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BeyerTh@t-online.de (Thomas Beyer) Subject: Re: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 07 Dec 2000 15:28:50 +0100 Tim Wegner schrieb: > > Define "bug" :-) > You mean: it's not a bug it's a feature :-) No, honestly. An artifact due to the limited _precision_, which is inherent in integer maths, is, of course, a feature. In this case, I think, it's a problem of the limited _range_, but that means, that an overflow wasn't handled correctly, therefore I call it a bug. (Note, that Lee Skinner called it at least "very unusual".) > I don't expect integer math to survive many (if any) future fractint > versions, unless we make an extra effort to keep it out of nostalgia. > I agree that integer arithmetics have become more or less obsolete. I think for that purpose, I'll keep my FI 20.0 (just as I still have a Version 15.xx for the square-looking finite attractor). Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 07 Dec 2000 19:05:53 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 08, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: We're in the middle of another rush today here at Fractal Central, so I'll have to keep the words to a minimum. Today's image has been rotated until it lies only 10 degrees from the Julia plane. When sliced at this angle, the bridges, which are made of Mandelbrot stuff and are actually plates, appear to have expanded to almost 6 times the width they have when sliced perpendicularly. In today's image, we see the entire lower half of the screen filled with the Mandel stuff that makes up the bridge. The straight edges of the bridge remain clearly visible. The banded Julia material in the lower half of the image has taken on a tortured, stretched, twisted look, which is not very attractive to look at. Also, the four arms in the upper right, which in yesterday's image converged in a vague spiral, have taken on a decidedly more spiral-like appearance. In the next FOTD, we'll rotate the view still closer to the Julia plane, and see what happens to the ever-broadening bridge of Mandel-stuff. Today's image renders in a quick 46 seconds, fast enough to make the download unnecessary. But for those who would still wish to download the finished GIF image file, the file is available at: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and at: The fractal weather today was partly sunny with occasional flurries of snow. With a temperature of 32F (0C), the fractal cats didn't even think of going outdoors. But I'm thinking of getting busy and finishing that job that's been fighting me most of the evening. I'll reappear tomorrow at about this same time, with the next in the series of rotation images. Until then, take care, and when working with fractals, don't get cold feet. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-07 { ; time=0:00:46.13 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.41\ 667 params=80/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) General cubic exploration Date: 07 Dec 2000 19:55:28 -0500 >> Nope. The FractInt docs definitly say 'colors'! Maybe they should allo= w *both* spellings to be valid, like POV-Ray does... << Occam's razor tells me to use "colors" - oops, I mean 'colors'. :-) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 01:37:14 -0500 404, and it's nearly two o'clock in the morning. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) Re: General Cubic Exploration Date: 08 Dec 2000 01:46:52 -0500 I now have enough information to solve the mystery of my PAR not working with some people here, and working fine for others (including myself). It's a little problem with rich text and with at least one email client program. The kicker was this line: Oops, couldn't understand the argument: colors0ublahblah when the input was colors=000ublahblah -- somehow, some people had an "=00" go missing. When I saw that, it all fell into place. Clearly, these people have an email client that can handle a certain enriched-text format called "quoted-printable", which I have seen before, and which has markup tags for some function or other taking the form of an "=" and a 2-digit code. In that markup, an "=" itself is represented using such a code (specifically, "=3d"). Moreover, these peoples' email software is clearly interpreting plain text messages as though they were in markup. As a result, when it viewed the par file, it interpreted the "=00" in the color line as a markup tag (though it wasn't intended as such) and it evidently collapsed away into an invisible character or change of format. This disappeared when the line was copied and pasted into a plain text editor that couldn't represent rich text formatting or special characters. This, then, is just the reverse of a problem we had on here once before, in which someone was posting par files with an email client and unwittingly posting quoted-printable markup instead of plain text -- the result was stuff like "center-mag=3d0.3632/-0.7616/0.00001283", which Fractint choked on. The devil of it is that quoted-printable looks enough like normal text that the problem isn't glaringly obvious, unlike when something shows up as HTML. Just Say No to weird markup-using mail readers. :-) _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 01:37:28 -0600 Multiple Bogeys wrote: > > 404, and it's nearly two o'clock in the morning. > Seems like it is only you that has this problem and keeps complaining regularly. The page has already been accessed at least 7 times. If you had a decent ISP then you might not have this problem and could get something other than a bogus email account through HotMail. I guess you've got nothing better to do with your existence, seeing how Jim wrote this: "Today's image renders in a quick 46 seconds, fast enough to make the download unnecessary." Or if you were too lazy to spend the few seconds render time, you could have taken a little longer time and gotten it from the Usenet or one of the web based Newsgroup archives. Sincerely, P.N.L. http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 07:20:10 -0500 "Paul N. Lee" wrote: > Multiple Bogeys wrote: > > > > 404, and it's nearly two o'clock in the morning. > > > > Seems like it is only you that has this problem and keeps complaining > regularly. Well, Paul, I think you and Jim should give this guy back his money! And there. Its done! There you go, Multiple! Now you're not out anything. Glad I could help sort this out! Mike P.S. #1: I have a hotmail account, as well as this one. It isn't the e-mail account's fault when its owner doesn't appreciate neat images and discussion and volunteerism on the net. P.S. #2: Neat series. Been playing around and getting some neat 'movies'. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Re: General Cubic Exploration Date: 08 Dec 2000 07:20:13 -0500 >> I now have enough information to solve the mystery of my PAR not worki= ng with some people here, and working fine for others (including myself). It= 's a little problem with rich text and with at least one email client progra= m. .. << (Explanation snipped) A very good explanation!! Thanks for sharing your detective work. I remember those '3d's quite well! Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: j8.brown@student.qut.edu.au Subject: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 23:12:00 +1000 (EST) Hey Everybody, I'm trying to make a large (A0) size poster of a fractal. However from what I can gather the larges fractal fractint can generate (with disk video mode) is 2048 x 2048 x 256 due to internal limits (says the documentation) but im gonna need better resolution to print a poster about 50cm by 75cm so I was just wondering if anybody had any ideas on the most accurate way of generating a large resolution fractal. Thanksalot, Jim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: General Cubic Exploration Date: 08 Dec 2000 09:22:20 -0600 Multiple Bogeys wrote: > ...which has markup tags for some function or other taking the form > of an "=" and a 2-digit code. Specifically, the hex value of a(n ASCII) "non-printable" character. In ASCII, 3D (aka 0x3D, aka &H3D, etc.) is the hex value of '='. In email posts like that, you also frequently see =0a (new line) and =20 (space). -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 09:47:56 -0600 Paul N. Lee wrote: > Multiple Bogeys wrote: > >> 404, and it's nearly two o'clock in the morning. > > Seems like it is only you that has this problem... I have--on very rare occasions--had trouble with your site. I have--on mostly rare occasions--had trouble with *all* sites that I access daily. Nothing as complex as the 'net works perfectly all the time. > ...and keeps complaining regularly. I donno. The 'net and I go back far enough that I still view it as a volunteer/amateur/academic/gummint deal rather than a taken-for-granted utility such as water and power. When it burps, I tend to wait and see...it's usually fine later. (This actually works well in many areas of life.) I'm impressed by the wealth, texture and richness of the web, and I'm constantly amazed by the contributions of the myriad authors of the content. I do have some idea how hard it is to create and maintain a website, both artistically and technically. I'm also very impressed by those that take on the pressure of a daily contribution. That is no small matter. (I can't begin to imagine how people like Scott Adams do it.) I ramble. The point is, this is supposed to be FUN. Relax, have an eggnog. The fractal will be there later. If not, and one is terribly concerned about it, perhaps direct email to the webspinner is a wise choice of action. -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 11:49:31 -0500 Dear Jim, You could try a multiple-image batch (with SIMPLGIF) in single-pa= ss mode, although I don't know how well this would work in terms of seamlessness. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) Evolver bug Date: 08 Dec 2000 13:12:32 -0500 Found this in 20.1.01, but since the changes posted here for 20.1.02 and 20.1.03 don't include any evolver bug fixes, I assume it is unfixed in 20.1.03. (What, by the way, does 20.1.03 have that 20.1.01 does not? It's yet to be adequately explained.) Generate the image, then enter the evolver with ctrl-e, and hit f6 to pick parameters to vary. p2 and p3 don't show up, even though both are used in the formula. You need my cubeg2 formula file, posted here last week. evolver_bug { ; version 20.01.1 ; generate image, then ctrl-e, f6. ; p2 and p3 should be displayed, but aren't. ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 1 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=cubeg2.frm formulaname=CubeG2_Ma center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0/0/0/0/0/1e-005 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=8O`8O`<14>Af`Ag`Ah`<3>Am`<3>hspqutyvw<18>ofWoeVndT<2>maPmaOn_N<9>\ uPKuOKvNK<2>xKJxJJwLI<23>gh5fi4ej4<2>cm2cn2dm3<16>ik8jj8jj8<2>kj9kj9ig8<\ 6>_N6YK5XH5<3>R64<7>kTInWKpZM<3>ziS<2>kaE<16>kQBkPAkOA<2>kMAkMAlOC<16>oj\ golipmk<2>pqqprrprs<7>tuvuvvzzzuvw<3>wxxxxyxyyyyyyzz<31>8O` } _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 13:25:28 -0500 >If you had a decent ISP then you might not have this problem... What have you been smoking? Either the page is there on home.att.net, or it is not; which ISP I happen to be on doesn't affect what home.att.net's Web server serves for a given URL. At least, it shouldn't; if home.att.net's Web server serves different stuff for the same URL depending on what the requester's IP address happens to be, then IMO that Web server is broken, and it's *your* ISP that ought to be changed. >and could get something other than a bogus email account through >HotMail. I have a working email via my ISP. I don't use it to post on Usenet or open mailing lists, for reasons that ought to be obvious. >...if you were too lazy to spend the few seconds render time... It may render in only a few seconds, but it's still more convenient to view it on the Web. It only takes a few seconds to download and display, and to view it on the Web involves three mouse clicks and a few seconds of time. To render it myself, on the other hand, involves * Painstakingly selecting all of the text and hitting ctrl-C to copy it. * Opening a text editor and hitting ctrl-V to paste it. * Saving it to some .par filename or another in the fractint directory. * Opening a DOS window, going to the fractint directory, and starting fractint. * '@', f6, enter the par name, enter, enter. * Wait for it to render. This is a fairly long and tedious sequence of steps that cannot be automated. I much prefer three mouse clicks, especially as the download is generally as fast on my 56k modem as the fastest FOTD renders at 1024x768. Usenet is even worse, of course: * Find abpf, if my ISP even carries binaries -- most don't. (If it doesn't, find it on deja news, assuming they carry binaries...) * Find the messages with the FOTD, somewhere amid all the spam. * Download and view each message with a part of the fractal, and hope they are all there. Paste them (careful to put them in order; they might have arrived on my news server out of order) in sequence into a file in a large-capacity text editor. Save it. * Search the Web for a uudecoder of some sort. * Scan the uudecoder for viruses, assuming I can even find one in this day and age. * Assuming it proves free of infections, use it on the saved text, thereby generating a gif. * Run an image viewer (or Fractint). * Open the gif. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 13:27:43 -0500 > I'm trying to make a large (A0) size >poster of a fractal. However from what I can gather >the larges fractal fractint can generate (with disk >video mode) is 2048 x 2048 x 256 due to internal limits >(says the documentation) but im gonna need better >resolution to print a poster about 50cm by 75cm so I >was just wondering if anybody had any ideas on the most >accurate way of generating a large resolution fractal. >Thanksalot, Jim Fractint has a feature for generating large images in parts. Also, the recent developer betas (get from http://www.fractint.org) can generate larger disk-video modes, but you have to hack fractint.cfg yourself to specify them, and they don't always work very well. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed II PhD Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 15:02:05 -0600 could some of MB's frustration arise from his 56.6kb (i.e., usu no better than 21.8, 28.8, or at best-in an urban area, 34) modem? I know mine did.

Does he have the ability to get an ext cable modem, or DSL from the phone co??

It's never the promised T1speed, but it's a heck of a lot faster than dial-ups are.

I know my general level of frustration w/ the world (in my case, governed almost entirely by download-intensive internet functions, for work and pleasure) almost vaporized as soon as I ceased having to spend 40-45s/online minute waiting.

Life became less irritating and more fun. Perhaps 100mg of T1 speed downloads, administered 2-3 times / day, would be just what the doctor ordered.

Just a thought . . . .

Multiple Bogeys wrote:

>If you had a decent ISP then you might not have this problem...

What have you been smoking? Either the page is there on home.att.net, or it
is not; which ISP I happen to be on doesn't affect what home.att.net's Web
server serves for a given URL. At least, it shouldn't; if home.att.net's Web
server serves different stuff for the same URL depending on what the
requester's IP address happens to be, then IMO that Web server is broken,
and it's *your* ISP that ought to be changed.

>and could get something other than a bogus email account through
>HotMail.

I have a working email via my ISP. I don't use it to post on Usenet or open
mailing lists, for reasons that ought to be obvious.

>...if you were too lazy to spend the few seconds render time...

It may render in only a few seconds, but it's still more convenient to view
it on the Web. It only takes a few seconds to download and display, and to
view it on the Web involves three mouse clicks and a few seconds of time. To
render it myself, on the other hand, involves

* Painstakingly selecting all of the text and hitting ctrl-C to copy
  it.
* Opening a text editor and hitting ctrl-V to paste it.
* Saving it to some .par filename or another in the fractint
  directory.
* Opening a DOS window, going to the fractint directory, and starting
  fractint.
* '@', f6, enter the par name, enter, enter.
* Wait for it to render.

This is a fairly long and tedious sequence of steps that cannot be
automated. I much prefer three mouse clicks, especially as the download is
generally as fast on my 56k modem as the fastest FOTD renders at 1024x768.

Usenet is even worse, of course:

* Find abpf, if my ISP even carries binaries -- most don't. (If it
  doesn't, find it on deja news, assuming they carry binaries...)
* Find the messages with the FOTD, somewhere amid all the spam.
* Download and view each message with a part of the fractal, and hope
  they are all there. Paste them (careful to put them in order; they
  might have arrived on my news server out of order) in sequence into
  a file in a large-capacity text editor. Save it.
* Search the Web for a uudecoder of some sort.
* Scan the uudecoder for viruses, assuming I can even find one in this
  day and age.
* Assuming it proves free of infections, use it on the saved text,
  thereby generating a gif.
* Run an image viewer (or Fractint).
* Open the gif.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 18:50:23 -0600 > I'm trying to make a large (A0) size > poster of a fractal. However from what I can gather > the larges fractal fractint can generate (with disk > video mode) is 2048 x 2048 x 256 due to internal limits > (says the documentation) but im gonna need better > resolution to print a poster about 50cm by 75cm so I > was just wondering if anybody had any ideas on the most > accurate way of generating a large resolution fractal. Oops! The limit for disk video in version 20.0 is 32767x32767. We forgot to update the discussion about disk video modes. I'll fix it in patch 5, since I'm uploading patch 4 this evening. If you use the latest developer's version, you can pick any disk video mode, start the fractal, and then go to the screen to set the resolution up to the limit of 32767x32767. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Jemison Subject: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 19:53:28 -0500 Jim, Version 20 and later can generate *very* large files, without = resorting to any stitching, etc. I have done = 16,000 x 12,000 x 256 for instance. Just copy one of the = lines for diskvideo mode in your Fractint.cfg and change the = relevant numbers. ie. .....2048,2048,256..... would be changed to .....16000,12000,256... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Date: 08 Dec 2000 20:03:21 -0500 Jim, The cuurent version of Fractint can generate disk video images up to 65535x65535 pixels without using SimpleGif. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 09-12-00 (4D-08 [NA]) Date: 08 Dec 2000 21:53:22 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 09, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: In today's two images, we continue rotating the view ever closer to the Julia orientation. In fact, we are only 4 degrees from the Julia orientation. At this angle, the Mandelbrot stuff, which has already expanded to infinity horizontally, has stretched to over 14 times its normal measure vertically. Only the top part of the Mandel-bridge now appears in the close-up 4D-08 image, while the emerging spiral toward the upper right has become quite well defined. A narrow band at the top of the main band of brilliant Mandel stuff is the side view of a sub-valley in the main valley. A careful examination will show the Mandel bridge beginning to lose its definition as the increasingly narrow angle emphasizes the irregularities along its edges. However, a high enough maxiter would smooth these irregularities. The bottom of the image has been overwhelmed by an intruding mass of banded, low-iteration Julia stuff. This mass will clear away as we rotate ever closer to the Julia direction in future FOTD's. The image is filled with spirals, all of which converge clockwise. But look carefully in the lower left corner, where one small spiral converges counter-clockwise. The spirals are like people -- there are some that just have to be different. As I mentioned at the start, two images are attached to this discussion, the second image being a view of the entire fractal. This image, 4D-08a, which is already taking the shape of a Julia set, is perhaps more striking than the first. In it we see a proto-Julia set, with a grossly enlarged band of Mandel stuff cutting straight through it. This band is still a side view of the lower valley of the northeast period-4 bud, though it has long since lost any resemblance to a Mandelbrot valley. The supernumerary bands at the edges of the brilliant band are sub-valleys of the main valley. The first image renders in one minute; the second takes 1/2 minute. These times do not include the cutting, pasting and renaming necessary to change this letter into an executable parameter file. Those who would rather not cut, paste and rename may find the GIF image files posted to Usenet at: and in an hour or so to the W.W.Web at: The fractal weather today was cloudy and a bit milder. But the temperature of 43F (6C) was still too cold for the pampered fractal cats, who spent the day by their radiators, wishing summer were here. Well, the day is done and I'm exhausted. It's time to shut down the fractal shoppe, call it a day, and watch the continuing election nonsense on TV. My guy has become as big a jerk as the other guy, so I've long since stopped caring who finally gets to be president. Until next time, take care, and have the patience of Job. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4D-08 { ; time=0:01:09.25 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.41\ 667 params=86/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4D-08a { ; time=0:00:29.50 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.55431e-015/-0.344718/0.8623068 params=86/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jean-Pierre Louvet" Subject: (fractint) Fractal Art FAQ Date: 09 Dec 2000 12:24:13 +0100 Hi all, Version 1.2 of the Fractal Art FAQ is at http://www.fractalus.com/fractal-art-faq/ http://www-hs.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/F-art-faq/ http://www.eclectasy.com/fractovia/faq/ Look at the "What's new" topic for more information. Best regards. J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)05-56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux 1 | 33405 Talence CEDEX France | email : louvet@hse.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr Fractales sur serveur Web Universite Bordeaux I : http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: robin Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD 08-12-00 (4D-07 [NA]) Date: 09 Dec 2000 13:02:01 +0000 Hi MB > To render it myself, on the other hand, involves > > * Painstakingly selecting all of the text and hitting ctrl-C to copy > it. >etc etc... Take a look at this little utility I threw together to make rendering from emailed pars easier.. it'll even get rid of =3D's (though not very intelligently) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/robin.b2/pastengo.htm Hope it helps you, Cheers, Robin. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) Evolver bug Date: 09 Dec 2000 07:36:38 -0600 > Found this in 20.1.01, but since the changes posted here for 20.1.02 and > 20.1.03 don't include any evolver bug fixes, I assume it is unfixed in > 20.1.03. Since this is the first I've heard of it, there's no need to be rude. It will be fixed in patch 5. In the mean time, try using p1 and p2 instead of p2 and p3. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph H. Guth, Ph.D." Subject: Re: (fractint) FOTD Data, Formula and Parameters Date: 09 Dec 2000 12:25:53 -0500 Dear Jim I am relatively new to the fractint program but have had long standing interest in chaos theory and fractal functions in general. Two of your FOTDs have struck me as very intrigueing from their similarities to physical phenomena and I would like to get more into exploring the underlying functions. I have looked on both your FOTD and Les St Clair's website for their full formulae and parameters but apparently you haven't gotten around to posting them yet. Could you send me or post that info for FOTD 11/15/2000 and FOTD 11/25/2000 at your earliest convenience? I would greatly appreciate it and will let you know what I do with them in return. Keep up the excellent work. I, for one, am enjoying this fascinating and artful endeavor. Joseph H. Guth, Ph.D. Scientific and Forensic Services, Inc. Norfolk, VA iri@iname.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 10 Dec 2000 00:32:38 +0100 At 15:28 07/12/00 +0100, you wrote: > > >Tim Wegner schrieb: > >> >> Define "bug" :-) >> >You mean: it's not a bug it's a feature :-) > >No, honestly. >An artifact due to the limited _precision_, which is inherent in integer >maths, is, of course, a feature. yes, thats right! try to get these b'ful 3d-Fractals (for crossed-eyes viewing) in "float=yes" mode.. so, it is a feature!! >In this case, I think, it's a problem of the limited _range_, but that >means, that an overflow wasn't handled correctly, therefore I call it a >bug. (Note, that Lee Skinner called it at least "very unusual".) > >> I don't expect integer math to survive many (if any) future fractint >> versions, unless we make an extra effort to keep it out of nostalgia. >> >I agree that integer arithmetics have become more or less obsolete. I >think for that purpose, I'll keep my FI 20.0 (just as I still have a >Version 15.xx for the square-looking finite attractor). some "integer-only" fractals: 3d-001 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-0.83/0.83/-0.25/-0.25 julibrot3d=200/1250/100/5/10/24 julibroteyes=-5.15 orbitname=julzpower 3dmode=lefteye center-mag=0.11126/0.030104/18.33513/1.0001 params=0/0/2/0 maxiter=20 bailout=122 bailoutest=or cyclerange=25/32 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } 3d-002 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=4/-4.7/-1.445/-7.3 julibrot3d=600/0/0/0/0/0 orbitname=hypercomplexj function=sin center-mag=-1.424/2.94209e-015/1.503206/0.6229 params=0/5/0/0/0/0 float=y maxiter=3 bailout=32000 colors=000Sk8Wan<26>jewkexkex<3>nfzlax<2>nQwoMvnMv<29>ICxHCxGCx<3>BAyICu\ <3>MChNCdOCa<2>RCSSDOTFO<7>hbSjeSlhT<3>ttVf_R<15>tVStVSuVS<3>yTTqWT<4>_c\ bWdcTfe<3>ElmNij<7>VprWqsXqt<2>_tw`ux_tw<26>fvwfvwfvw<3>hwvpmezdOguv<8>f\ flfekfcj<2>fZgeXecei<4>PdZMdXJdV<3>6cMCaP<3>MNNPJMRFM<3>a0JRGM<25>Sj9 } 3d-003 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=0.9/0/-1.4/0 julibrot3d=470/0/0/0/0/0 orbitname=hypercomplexj function=tan center-mag=0/-1.23235e-014/0.9247312/0.7209 params=0/0/0/2.31/0/0 float=y maxiter=10 bailout=6 colors=000ZTk<14>njcokbplb<3>uq_nic<5>p_`qZ`qX_<3>sQYm__<4>TgTPiSKjR<3>3\ qLReO<2>yKK<9>yF`yFbyEd<2>yDizCkxDd<3>pESnEPlEMjEJhFFpEV<3>sGgsHjtHmtIpu\ IsvJw<13>hCNgBLfBI<3>a87hEM<5>fWCeZAea8<2>dj3cm1eZA<26>hN4hN4iM3<3>iK4iJ\ 4hI4hI4oi_qhbfjM<20>MifLigKih<3>GhmMif<22>8vZ8vZ7wZ7wY6xY5yX<25>OMmPKnQJ\ o<2>SEqTCrRKo<6>YSk } 3d-004 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=10/-10/2/10 julibrot3d=250/0/0/0/0/0 orbitname=lambdafn function=cosxx center-mag=-1.77636e-015/-1.06581e-014/0.6666667 params=0/0 float=y maxiter=4 bailout=32000 colors=000fZr<16>FGpEFpCEp<3>59o9Do<20>MjDMkBNm9<3>Qt1Oo6<24>7Pg7Oi6Nj<3\ >3Iq5Mk<9>3aL3cI2dF<2>2i71k43fD<17>QXDRWDSWD<2>WUDYTE_RE<3>jJBlHBoFA<3>z\ 67rE9<29>pjDpkDplD<3>oqE<3>YiATg9Oe8Jb6YhB<10>cURcSSdRU<2>eNYfL_eNY<29>T\ eYTeYSfY<2>RhYQiZRfY<10>LV`LU`KT`<3>IPah_s } 3d-005 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1.6/0/4/0 julibrot3d=700/0/0/0/0/0 orbitname=hypercomplexj function=tan center-mag=-1.77636e-015/-8.88178e-015/0.6666667 params=0/0/0/-1.58/0/0 float=y maxiter=2 bailout=4 colors=000AMf<5>PHlRHmUGn<2>`DqcCrcCr<18>f7ag7`g7_<3>h5W<3>NJEHMABQ55U0<\ 3>NT2ST2WT3`T3eS4<13>kiEljFllFmmGmnHnpI<3>mkOmjPmhR<2>ldVvZm<3>wmjwqixuh\ <3>pinneplbrj_shXueTw<8>_eh_fgZhe<2>Xl`WnZXmY<14>oZIpYHrXGsWFtVEvTC<22>F\ WUDXVBXV<3>3YZ<7>SMNVKLZJK<3>kCD<15>gFkgFmgGp<3>eHy<24>OVFNWDMWB<2>KY5JZ\ 3L_6<8>ejbhkejmi<3>trx<8>FQh } 3d-006 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=3/0/1/2.5 julibrot3d=500/0/0/0/0/0 orbitname=lambdafn function=sin center-mag=7.88258e-015/-2.33147e-015/3.152818/0.3975 params=0/1 float=y maxiter=8 bailout=300 colors=000M9u<3>PIdPL`QNXRPTnjd<3>opjpqkprl<3>qxr<3>rQrsIrs9rt0q<5>l4hk5\ fj5dh6cg7ae8_<25>sBLtBKtBKuBJvBIwCH<37>mo3mp3mq3lr2ls2ku1<29>fdafcbfcc<2\ >eagd`ic`i<17>AdY8dX7dX<3>0eU<34>jEakEbmDbnCbpBc<35>r2rr2rr2r<3>r1ta4vL7\ y } 3d-007 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=0/-3/-3/4 julibrot3d=300/1250/100/5/10/24 julibroteyes=-5.15 orbitname=julzpower 3dmode=lefteye center-mag=6.3775e-006/0.0388801/8.406539/1.0001 params=0/0/2/-0.3 maxiter=8 bailout=2000 bailoutest=and colors=000zZ8<3>zX4zW3zW2zV1<27>z50z40z30z20z10z00<28>f00e00d00<26>JDDID\ DHEEGEEFFFFFFFFF<24>p33r33s22<2>x11z00z10<24>zn0zp0zr0<2>zx0zz0zz1<24>zz\ nzzpzzr<2>zzxzzzzzz<53>zZ9 } 3d-008 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-2/1/1/3 julibrot3d=428/660/85/7/10/24 julibroteyes=5.15 orbitname=lambdafn 3dmode=lefteye function=sin center-mag=-5e-008/9.05e-006/0.04167969 params=0/0 maxiter=7 bailout=62 colors=000Tzz<16>7zz6zz4zz3zz2zz0zz<42>07z06z04z03z02z00z<57>00500400300\ 2000000000<25>00d00f00h00i00k00m<26>0ew0fx0hx0iy0ky0mz<25>nwzpwzrxz<3>zz\ z<24>Vzz } paral-01 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1/5/-1/4 julibrot3d=200/2900/-150/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=lambda center-mag=-0.00009784105000000/+0.03008815650000000/62.05338/0.9997 params=0/0.7 maxiter=3 bailout=2600 bailoutest=imag colors=000l0E<60>40v30w20x<2>00z00z11y<77>vv4ww3xx2<2>zz0zz0zy0<77>z40z3\ 0z20z20z10z00<17>m0D } paral-02 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1/5/-1/4 julibrot3d=200/2900/-150/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=lambda center-mag=-8.41319e-005/0.0300726/36.36544/0.9997 params=0/0.7 maxiter=3 bailout=2600 bailoutest=imag colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-03 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1/7/-4/-5 julibrot3d=200/2900/-150/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=lambda center-mag=-0.000154615/0.0300856/7.680413 params=0/0.7 maxiter=2 bailout=260 bailoutest=and colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-04 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1/7/-4/2 julibrot3d=200/2900/-150/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=lambda center-mag=-0.000144959/0.0300856/7.680413 params=0/0.7 maxiter=2 bailout=20 bailoutest=and colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-05 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-4.83/-3.83/0.2/3.25 julibrot3d=256/2950/-220/10/10/24 julibroteyes=1.6 orbitname=lambda center-mag=+0.00012320279850000/-0.00292706489500000/1458.254/0.9997 params=0/0 maxiter=10 bailout=1000 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-06 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=0.83/-3.83/0.2/3.25 julibrot3d=256/2950/-120/10/10/24 julibroteyes=1.6 orbitname=lambda center-mag=0.685816/5.72205e-006/12.36507 params=0/0 maxiter=3 bailout=900 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-07 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-0.2/-2.83/0.25/-0.25 julibrot3d=100/2920/-200/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=julzpower center-mag=0.276539/0.535239/37.55161/1.0005 params=0/0/0/-2 maxiter=2 bailout=3 bailoutest=and colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } paral-08 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=0/-3/-3/4 julibrot3d=100/2900/-250/10/10/24 julibroteyes=5 orbitname=julzpower center-mag=7.68305e-005/0.0388801/8.406539/1.0001 params=0/0/2/0.3 maxiter=8 bailout=2000 bailoutest=and colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } All these fractals must be generated in "float=no" mode! If you got time, try them in float=yes modus. Then no true 3d effect is visible! I hope these are arguments for the intergermath. have fun, Guy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 10-12-00 (4D-09 [NA]) Date: 09 Dec 2000 21:32:59 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 10, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: We have another two-image FOTD today. The first image shows the local scene; the second image backs off far enough to reveal the entire almost-Julia set. Yes, we're almost there. Today's rotation takes us to within 3/4 degree of the Julia plane. At this angle the thickness of the brilliant Mandelbrot bridge has been increased to over 76 times its normal thickness. We see the straight edges of the bridge now becoming quite ragged and increasingly indistinct, but the increasingly well- developed spiral in the upper right corner is now fully formed. All spirals converge clockwise, except the brilliant blue spiral near the center, which to be different converges counter- clockwise. This first image is almost but not quite a Julia set. The second image of the day, which shows the entire fractal, reveals how the width of the bridge has increased until it fills almost the entire scene. Only the top 1/4 of the image and a tiny area near the bottom are not covered by the grossly enlarged projection of the lower valley of the period-4 northeast bud of the M-set. The first image renders in 3-1/2 minutes, the second in 23 seconds. For those who prefer their fractals pre-rendered, the rendered images are available on Usenet at: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and on the Web at: The fractal weather today was typical of this part of the world at this time of year. The partly sunny skies were fine, but the temperature of 41F (5C) was too chilly for the fractal cats. And it's now time to shutter the fractal shoppe and settle down for the evening. I'll return tomorrow with the next to last in the series of Mandelbrot to Julia rotations. Until then, take care, and I'd walk 100 kilometers to see a four-dimensional object that was not a projection into three dimensions. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4d-09 { ; time=0:03:25.07 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.41\ 667 params=89.25/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.487 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4D-09a { ; time=0:00:22.92 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=allinone.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.55431e-015/-0.36429/0.8757189 params=89.25/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 09 Dec 2000 22:25:01 -0500 Finally got around to trying it last night. Fractint animator has a bug -- it always looks for fractint in "c:\fractint" regardless of the setting on the "system" tab. (I changed it to "e:\fractint", which is its location on my system, and tried to do the first.par demo, and it balked complaining that it couldn't find fractint in "c:\fractint".) Unfortunately, this is a showstopper on my system, and for anyone else who has put fractint in a non-standard directory or on a different partition or drive. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Evolver bug Date: 09 Dec 2000 22:39:11 -0500 > > Found this in 20.1.01, but since the changes posted here for 20.1.02 and > > 20.1.03 don't include any evolver bug fixes, I assume it is unfixed in > > 20.1.03. > >Since this is the first I've heard of it, there's no need to be rude. Rude? I wasn't implying any laziness or anything -- just remarking that although I found it in a less-than-most-recent version I had reason to believe it existed in the most recent version as well, in case someone might otherwise think I was reporting an old, possibly fixed bug. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) Re:FOTD Data, Formula and Parameters Date: 09 Dec 2000 23:40:04 -0500 (EST) At 12:25 PM 12/9/00 -0500, you wrote: >Dear Jim >Two of your >FOTDs have struck me as very intrigueing from their similarities to physical >phenomena and I would like to get more into exploring the underlying >functions. I have looked on both your FOTD and Les St Clair's website for >their full formulae and parameters but apparently you haven't gotten around >to posting them yet. Could you send me or post that info for FOTD >11/15/2000 and FOTD 11/25/2000 at your earliest convenience? >Joseph H. Guth, Ph.D. Joseph: All the data necessary to reconstruct the FOTD images is included in every FOTD discussion, and on Paul Lee's web site. I have re-attached the data for the two FOTD's that you requested. FOTD 11-15-00 START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Infinite_Regress { ; time=0:11:05.96 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+1.90721041666091600/-0.77564195590960320\ /3.996636e+007/1/-97.5 params=10/-1.3/1/-13/-2/100 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=212 periodicity=9 colors=000U2fU2bN2YG2SG2OD2JD2FA29A25720720020022035\ 05705A05D25G35J55L73O93RA3UD3XF3ZG3aJ3dK3fL3iG0rN3lS\ 9fYFabJYhOSwUNsYJzbDzh7zm1zl3zi6zf7zbAz`CzYFzUGzRJyO\ LwKNvHPtFRsAUr7Vp5Yt0Zo2Zi6VeCR`GNVLJOU0RPFULdXJzVKy\ ULtSLrRNmPNkOOfNOdLP`LPYKRUJRRHSNGSKFUGDUDCV97S5CV6F\ Z7Hb7Kf9Nk9PoASsCVwCYzDZzC`zD`zD`yF<3>`lH`iH`eJ`bJ``\ J`XK`UK`PL`NL`KN<3>`6P`3Pa0R`1P`3OZ6NZ9LZCKYDJ<2>XLF\ XODVRCVSAUV9UY7U`6Sb5Se3Uh0Sf2<3>NdHLdLLdOKbSJbXHa`G\ abGaf<3>ffrmhtpiwskzrkzpkzpkzolzmlzllzllzklzimzhmzhm\ zfmzemzdozdozbozaoz`oz`pz<2>XpzZtz<2>UhzSdzP`zOXz<3>\ HGzGCzF7zD5zC7yA9v9As7Cr6Fo5Gl3Hk3Jh2Le1Nd0Oa0PZ0SY0\ UV0VS0XR2YU9ZXG`ZGa`GbbGdeGefGfiGhlGimGkfGla9mX7oX<3\ >6tX6vX6wX5yX5zX5zX5zX<4>DzPFzOHzNJzLKzKLzJNzHOzGRzF\ <3>Xz9Yz7`z6<3>ez1fz0ez3ez71zp0zl } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== FOTD 11-25-00 START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Heliosphere { ; time=0:14:13.55 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+0.4654990346770224/-3.884180985250454/61\ 65647/1/29.999 params=15/-1.15/1/-11.5/-2/500 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=227 periodicity=10 colors=000000000000<3>0000000000000000000200400840AA\ 0EE2GH6JNALREPXHR`LVdPXiT`mVboL`qPZr<2>`RudPqgRokVko\ Xgs`dvb`zc_<3>ohWliVijU<2>`mR<2>PsXLuZHvZEx`Azb6zd2z\ e0zg0zi0zk0zk0zg0ze0zd4zb8z`CxX<2>PsRTqPXoL<3>kgEdeC\ ZdARbAL`8EZ68X60V40T20R20T00V00X04X08Z0C`0E`0GV6HPGH\ LPJG`LAiL6sN0zP0zP0zV0z<3>i0zm0zq0xu0ux0qz0mz0iz0ez0\ bz0`<2>z0kv6oqGskNvgXzbdzXmzTuzNzzHzzEzzGzzHzzHzzJzz\ JuzLqvLksNgoNdkCTe0Jb08Z00V0CP8NLNZHbkEqvAzz6zzEzzJz\ zPzzXzzbzzgzzozwuzszzmzzmzzAzzAzxAzsismmigs`bxTXzJRz\ ALz2Gz0Az0Cz0Ez0Ez6GzCGzJHzPHzXJzbJziLzoLzuZiviNvv0x\ z0xz0qx0iu0b<3>dV8`b0Xi0Tq0Px0Lz0Nz0Pz0Pz0Rz0Tz0Tz0V\ z0Vz0Pz4JzCGzLAzT6zb0zi0zs0zz<2>0zz0zz0zx<2>0zN6zJEz\ HLzGTzE`zA<2>vz4zzzqzzgzzZzoPzd<2>0z60z0<2>0z00z60zN\ 4zdLzNbz8dzA<4>mzAozAqzC0zA0z8 } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fernando Bresslau" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 10 Dec 2000 09:28:34 -0200 I don´t have this problem. My fractint directory is at c:\fractal\fractint and FintAnim was installed (unzipped) into this directory. It works fine. Fernando Bresslau ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 1:25 AM > Finally got around to trying it last night. > > Fractint animator has a bug -- it always looks for fractint in "c:\fractint" > regardless of the setting on the "system" tab. > (I changed it to "e:\fractint", which is its location on my system, and > tried to do the first.par demo, and it balked > complaining that it couldn't find fractint in "c:\fractint".) > > Unfortunately, this is a showstopper on my system, and for anyone else who > has put fractint in a non-standard directory or on a different partition or > drive. > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 10 Dec 2000 13:02:25 -0500 Guy, Your 3d-002 through 3d-006 only give plain white screens. The others are= good though. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: (fractint) New e-mail address Date: 10 Dec 2000 16:00:13 -0800 My original ISP, Hooked.net, has been bought-out three times since I first joined in 1996. Under the auspices of the latest owners, ClearData.net, the wenet/hooked server went down hard early Monday morning (the 4th). I have finally re-joined cyberspace, almost a week later, as a member of Value.net (another part of ClearData.net). ClearData is attempting to recover mail and other data from the server, but is making no guarantees of success. If you have sent me any important messages since the 3rd, please send a copy to my new address, mchris@value.net and delete my old address mchris@hooked.net Thank you, Mark AKA Bud Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 11-12-00 (Fractal Diversion [4]) Date: 11 Dec 2000 01:01:52 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 11, 2000 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: I had intended to continue the 4D rotation series today, but just as I was ready to start writing the discussion, I was dragged to a concert of Christmas songs. The concert was acceptable, but by the time I got back to my desk, it was too late to give the FOTD discussion the attention it needs. I substituted an image I found and saved several weeks ago. The iterated formula, -9Z^(-1.5)-Z^(-13)+(1/C), is not exceptional, though like many M-Mix4 formulas, it draws some unexpected images. Perhaps the most unusual things about the image are the unusually long time it takes to render, and the unusually large size of the GIF file. The image itself is typical of midgets lying between buds very near the shore of the M-set. The scene lies in the East valley area of a larger midget. The parameter file drags unbearably, requiring over 1-1/2 hours on a Pentium 200mhz machine. The GIF file is available for download at: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and at: The fractal weather today was cloudy and cold, with a temperature of 37F (3C) and a mixture of rain and snow in the afternoon that kept the fractal cats snug indoors. And after an afternoon of sitting and listening, I'm ready to settle into my favorite chair for an hour or so of TV. Until tomorrow, when the rotation series definitely will continue, take care, and see you then. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Fractal_Diversion { ; time=1:39:18.32 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+1.545147334199108/-0.1066608549682611/19\ 13401/1/-174.999 params=9/-1.5/1/-13/-2/400 float=y maxiter=14400 inside=0 logmap=1335 periodicity=10 colors=000ZgT<3>caTe`Tf_TgYThXTjXS<51>ZOjZOjZNk<2>YN\ lYNlXOk<46>eBweBwfBw<3>fAxi9z<14>TFoSFnRGm<3>NHjPCl<\ 3>GUeEYdCbb<3>4sX1zX<37>GHIGGIHFH<2>IBGIAGH7F<36>TdG\ TeGUfG<3>VjGQpTQqTOsT<7>YhT } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jean-Pierre Louvet" Subject: (fractint) Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ (v. 1.21) Date: 11 Dec 2000 15:22:30 +0100 In spite of the fact that the html code was carefully checked with the validator html-Tidy (written by Dave Ragett, a gourou of the W3C) I was informed, thanks to Angela Wilczynski that there were problems with Netscape. It appears that this browser doesn't match with all the HTML standards because it doesn't understand several entities like “ or β The new version 1.21 is compatible with Netscape 4 and IE5 (don't use Netscape or Mozilla 6 wich have too much bugs). J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)05-56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux 1 | 33405 Talence CEDEX France | email : louvet@hse.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr Fractales sur serveur Web Universite Bordeaux I : http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 12-12-00 (4D-10 [NA]) Date: 11 Dec 2000 18:50:08 -0500 (EST) FOTD -- December 12, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: There's little to say about today's images, which have now been rotated all the way to the Julia orientation. The bridge has now broadened to infinity, so that the entire interior of the scene, and of the entire fractal as well, is in effect filled with a single point. The bridge is no longer visible because we have been skimming it just above the surface. The interior of the fractal is therefore filled with the point just barely above the bottom shoreline of the original period-4 bud. The second image illustrates the entire Julia set. If the real(p3) (or imaginary 'C') parameter were reduced just slightly, the image would fill in with the Mandel stuff of the lower valley of the bud. If it were raised, the spectacular spiral arms would straighten and lose their chaotic extensions. Raising the maxiter would also cause the image to fill in as even higher iteration Mandel stuff becomes visible. With a render time of 5 minutes and 3 minutes, today's images can be viewed more easily by downloading them from the internet. The images are available on Usenet (if you have it) at: and on the W.W.Web at: With a temperature of 36F (2C) and heavy clouds, today proved unfit for the delicate fractal cats to venture outdoors. They passed the day instead either stretched by the radiator or sitting on their window shelf, watching the birds fly by. We have but two more in the rotation series of images. These final two images will appear tomorrow along with a final few words about rotation in spaces of four dimensions. After that it's back to the wonderland of midgets. I've got a few pretty good ones backed up. Until tomorrow, take care, and know that a fractal at bedtime makes sleep come easier. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4d-10 { ; time=0:05:12.09 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.41\ 667 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4d-10a { ; time=0:02:53.35 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=0.00553216/-0.366921/0.896554 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) a fractint-manzpower-bug Date: 12 Dec 2000 09:39:23 +0100 Hi Lee, At 13:02 10/12/00 -0500, you wrote: >Guy, > > Your 3d-002 through 3d-006 only give plain white screens. The others are >good though. thanks for the warning! I got the picture-coordinates from *.gif's of an old Fractint (Ver. 18.2) but this version was not storing all of the coordinates into the .gif. Now, experimenting once more, here are the params again. Anyway, these julibrot fractals are 3d (for crossed-eyes viewing) but no arguments for the integer math.. the 003 is only at little bit different of the 002, so no reason to make a copy of it.. cheers, Guy 002 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=4/-4.7/-1.445/-7.3 julibrot3d=256/250/40/7/10/24 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=hypercomplexj function=sin center-mag=-1.424/2.9976e-015/1.503206/0.6229 params=0/5/0/0/0/0 float=y maxiter=3 bailout=32000 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } 004 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=10/-10/2/8 julibrot3d=512/55/10/7/10/24 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=lambdafn function=cosxx center-mag=-1.77636e-015/-1.06581e-014/0.6666667 params=0/0 float=y maxiter=4 bailout=32000 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } 005 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=1.6/0/4/0 julibrot3d=700/100/20/7/10/24 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=hypercomplexj function=tan center-mag=0/0/1 params=0/0/0/-1.58/0/0 float=y maxiter=2 bailout=4 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } 006 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 3 reset=2001 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=3/0/1/2.5 julibrot3d=500/100/20/7/10/24 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=lambdafn function=sin center-mag=7.99361e-015/-2.33147e-015/3.152818/0.3975 params=0/1 float=y maxiter=8 bailout=300 colors=000zzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 12-12-00 (4D-10 [NA]) Date: 11 Dec 2000 18:50:08 -0500 (EST) FOTD -- December 12, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: There's little to say about today's images, which have now been rotated all the way to the Julia orientation. The bridge has now broadened to infinity, so that the entire interior of the scene, and of the entire fractal as well, is in effect filled with a single point. The bridge is no longer visible because we have been skimming it just above the surface. The interior of the fractal is therefore filled with the point just barely above the bottom shoreline of the original period-4 bud. The second image illustrates the entire Julia set. If the real(p3) (or imaginary 'C') parameter were reduced just slightly, the image would fill in with the Mandel stuff of the lower valley of the bud. If it were raised, the spectacular spiral arms would straighten and lose their chaotic extensions. Raising the maxiter would also cause the image to fill in as even higher iteration Mandel stuff becomes visible. With a render time of 5 minutes and 3 minutes, today's images can be viewed more easily by downloading them from the internet. The images are available on Usenet (if you have it) at: and on the W.W.Web at: With a temperature of 36F (2C) and heavy clouds, today proved unfit for the delicate fractal cats to venture outdoors. They passed the day instead either stretched by the radiator or sitting on their window shelf, watching the birds fly by. We have but two more in the rotation series of images. These final two images will appear tomorrow along with a final few words about rotation in spaces of four dimensions. After that it's back to the wonderland of midgets. I've got a few pretty good ones backed up. Until tomorrow, take care, and know that a fractal at bedtime makes sleep come easier. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4d-10 { ; time=0:05:12.09 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=-1.11022e-016/8.32667e-017/10.41\ 667 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4d-10a { ; time=0:02:53.35 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=0.00553216/-0.366921/0.896554 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.4871 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) FOTD 13-12-00 (4D-11-12 [NA]) Date: 13 Dec 2000 00:02:57 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 13, 2000 (Rating NA) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Today we end the rotation series by viewing two additional Julia sets, which exist very close to the set illustrated in yesterday's FOTD. The first image, 4D-11, shows how rapidly the interior of yesterday's image fills in with brilliant Mandel stuff when imag(C) is lowered slightly from 0.4871 to 0.487. This value places imag(C) within the lower valley of the bud instead of skimming it as was the case in yesterday's Julia set. The second image, 4D-12, shows the undistorted Julia set associated with the center of the period-4 northeast bud. The elegant spirals have degenerated into straight arms, and the Mandel stuff has vanished. In this case, imag(C) has been increased to a value of 0.531, which corresponds to the center of the bud. Since it contains no high-iteration material and can therefore take advantage of periodicity checking, this second image renders in 1/20th the time of the first. The 4D-11 image renders in 2 minutes, the 4d-12 in 6-1/2 seconds. The download of the GIF images takes about the same time and is marginally less work. That download is available on Usenet at: and on the W.W.Web at: The fractal weather today featured very high winds, with gusts to 56mph (90kph), and a steadily falling temperature from 55F (13C) in the morning to below freezing in the evening. Disliking high winds, the fractal cats spent the day indoors. And I'm about ready to spend what remains of the evening relaxing. When I return tomorrow, I'll have some new M-Mix4 midgets to wonder about. Until then, take care, and stay happy. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ 4d-11 { ; time=0:01:59.70 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=0.00553216/-0.366921/0.896554 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.487 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } 4d-12 { ; time=0:00:06.67 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=multirot.frm formulaname=multirot-XY-ZW function=flip/ident passes=t center-mag=0.00553216/-0.366921/0.896554 params=90/90/0.36775/0/0.281/0.531 float=y maxiter=3600 inside=0 logmap=yes symmetry=none periodicity=10 colors=000BAABWfCAACVfDAAEVfEAAFUfFAAGUfGAAHUfHAAITf\ IAAJTfJAAKSfKAALSfLAAMSfNAANRgOAAORgPAAPQgQAAQQgRAAR\ QgSAASPgTAATPgUAAUOgV9AWOgW9AXOgX8AYNgY8AZNgZ8A_Mg_7\ A`Mg`7AaMga6AbLgb6AcLgc6AdMhd8AdNid9AdOjeAAeQjeCAeRk\ eEFeSlfGKfTmfJPfUnfLUgVngOZgWogRcgYpgShhZqhUjh_rhWlh\ `siZniasi`pibtibricujdtjev<6>kiykiykjz<11>nqznqznrz<\ 4>nsznsznsz<31>vzzwzzwzz<2>xzzxzzvyztwzruz<3>jmwhkwf\ iw<2>`cxZbxXbyVbyTby<9>NbzMbzMbz<2>KbzJbzKdz<4>PnzQp\ zRrz<2>UxzVzzWzz<3>Zzz_zz_zz<5>_zz_zz`zz<35>Nzz } frm:multirot-XY-ZW {; draws 6 planes and many rotations ;when fn1-2=i,f, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=O, 90,0=E, 90,90=J ;when fn1-2=f,i, then p1 0,0=M, 0,90=R, 90,0=P, 90,90=J a=real(p1)*.01745329251994, b=imag(p1)*.01745329251994, z=sin(b)*fn1(real(pixel))+sin(a)*fn2(imag(pixel))+p2, c=cos(b)*real(pixel)+cos(a)*flip(imag(pixel))+p3: z=sqr(z)+c, |z| <= 36 } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 13 Dec 2000 00:55:31 -0500 >I don´t have this problem. My fractint directory is at c:\fractal\fractint >and FintAnim was installed (unzipped) into this directory. It works fine. It must be unusual disk drives that it doesn't like then. It seems to be ignoring the drive letter on the system tab. I have fractint and unzipped the animator in e:\fractint, and can't get it to work -- it always looks in c:\fractint. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) New e-mail address Date: 13 Dec 2000 01:06:07 -0500 >My original ISP, Hooked.net, has been bought-out three >times since I first joined in 1996. Under the auspices of >the latest owners, ClearData.net, the wenet/hooked server >went down hard early Monday morning (the 4th). I have >finally re-joined cyberspace, almost a week later, as a >member of Value.net (another part of ClearData.net). >ClearData is attempting to recover mail and other data >from the server, but is making no guarantees of success. I suggest you drop ClearData like a hot potato and get an ISP unconnected with them. A sharp downturn in reliability when they took over, and then possible permanent data loss, tells you all you need to know about how much (or little) ClearData cares about its customers and their data. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thore Berntsen" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 13 Dec 2000 18:34:35 +0100 The problem is in the FANIM.PIF file. This can be fixed in two ways. 1. You could simply delete it, and a new one will be created. 2. You could rigthclick the file in Explorer, select Properties, click on the Program tab. There will You probably see that the Working directory is set to C:\fractint not e:\fractint as it should for You. Just change it! Thore Berntsen ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 4:25 AM > Finally got around to trying it last night. > > Fractint animator has a bug -- it always looks for fractint in "c:\fractint" > regardless of the setting on the "system" tab. > (I changed it to "e:\fractint", which is its location on my system, and > tried to do the first.par demo, and it balked > complaining that it couldn't find fractint in "c:\fractint".) > > Unfortunately, this is a showstopper on my system, and for anyone else who > has put fractint in a non-standard directory or on a different partition or > drive. > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ (v. 1.21) Date: 14 Dec 2000 23:40:59 +1300 At 15:22 11/12/2000 +0100, Jean-Pierre Louvet wrote: >In spite of the fact that the html code was carefully checked with the >validator html-Tidy (written by Dave Ragett, a gourou of the W3C) I was >informed, thanks to Angela Wilczynski that there were problems with >Netscape. You must have altered the page >http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ since writing the above. My copy of HTML-Tidy described it as "HTML Proprietary" and refused to attach a DOCTYPE imprimatur. That 'orrible marquee tag probably had something to do with it. >It appears that this browser doesn't match with all the HTML standards >because it doesn't understand several entities like “ or β Neither of which are ISO-8859-1 (ie. Latin-1) characters. Whether these render or not depend on whether you have a font which includes them (otherwise how's the browser supposed to know what a β looks like? And who want's to load their system down with a pile of Unicode font files at 13MB each?). >The new version 1.21 is compatible with Netscape 4 and IE5 (don't use >Netscape or Mozilla 6 wich have too much bugs). Well, Mozilla 0.6 is still in pre-1.0 development, so you can't expect perfection (though it's a lot more usable than Netscape 4.x). As for Netscape 6, which is worse, AOL doesn't have that excuse. Morgan L. Owens "Oh, why not?" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 14 Dec 2000 07:51:21 -0500 >The problem is in the FANIM.PIF file. This can be fixed in two ways. > >1. You could simply delete it, and a new one will be created. >2. You could rigthclick the file in Explorer, select Properties, click on >the Program tab. There will You probably see that the Working directory is >set to C:\fractint not e:\fractint as it should for You. Just change it! CMIIW, but isn't changing the directory on the system tab supposed to do this? If not, why require people to specify the directory in two places, but only document one of them? _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 14-12-00 (4D-11-12 [NA]) Date: 14 Dec 2000 08:10:38 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 14, 2000 (Rating 5) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: (Due to an unexpected telephone outage, today's C-FOTD is being posted 12 hours late. But better late than never.) Today's image returns us to the MandelbrotMix4 formula with its unlimited Minibrots. The expression Z^(-10)+10Z^(-2)+(1/C) was iterated to create the parent fractal, which consists of a roughly circular object. Small areas of scattered chaos line the perimeter of this fractal object, and a circular mass of chaos lies at the center. Today's midget lies on the perimeter, in the small area of chaos on the ENE border. This small chaotic area contains intact Mandel-buds. Today's midget lies near the end of the filament that extends from this bud. I named the picture "A Thorny Minibrot" after studying the image for several minutes and finding nothing better, and rated it an average 5. The render time of 26+ seconds from the parameter file is surprisingly fast. The download will take a few seconds longer. The choice is up to the viewer. The GIF file of the image may be found on Usenet at: and within 18 hours or so at: The fractal weather today was increasingly cloudy with a temperature of 33F (0.5C). Freezing rain is due to begin shortly, though nothing has appeared yet. The cats spent the day indoors, unhappy about the cold outdoors. It's time to shut things down and call it a night. Until tomorrow, take care, and see you in 15 hours. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ A_Thorny_Minibrot { ; time=0:00:26.47 -- SF5 on a p200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip center-mag=+1.36919600545343200/+0.37360798507764660\ /2337888/1/-127.499 params=1/-10/10/-2/0/900 float=y maxiter=3000 inside=0 logmap=14 periodicity=10 colors=000EYe<3>8MP7JL5GH<2>174vKDTC6yex<3>gVfbSbZPY\ as7<3>av4aw3aw3Vm2Pd2Jc19c0Cc16c0`cZ<3>IcHDcD9c84c4Z\ cp<3>LcVHcQEcLAmF7mA3m5dmK<3>TmEQwC<3>Ew7Bw58w45z22z\ 1fzr<2>AzDozA<6>Qz5Mz4Iz3<3>3z0yz_<7>SzGOzEKzC<3>4z2\ _zl<4>LzSIzOFzK<3>3z46zd3zKHz`<8>7zG6zD5zB<3>1z2Dzk<\ 2>3zCTzV<4>GzIEzFCzC<2>4z52z21zJ<3>0zB0z90z7<2>0z1Yz\ k<3>BzG5z8mzU<3>PzFIzBCz76z3Kzy<3>CzbAzX9zS<3>1z5dzC\ <6>Kz6Hz5Ez4<3>2z0szL<5>UzBPz9Lz8<3>4z1wzR<3>UzDMzAF\ z67z3Uzi<7>EzLCzIAzF<3>2z3dzS<3>RzINzGKzE<2>Az7ezd<3\ >_zjZzkjzivzg<3>wz7<4>Lz` } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 14-12-00 (A Thorny Minibrot [5]) Date: 14 Dec 2000 08:54:16 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 14, 2000 (Rating 5) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: (Due to an unexpected telephone outage, today's C-FOTD is being posted 12 hours late. But better late than never.) Today's image returns us to the MandelbrotMix4 formula with its unlimited Minibrots. The expression Z^(-10)+10Z^(-2)+(1/C) was iterated to create the parent fractal, which consists of a roughly circular object. Small areas of scattered chaos line the perimeter of this fractal object, and a circular mass of chaos lies at the center. Today's midget lies on the perimeter, in the small area of chaos on the ENE border. This small chaotic area contains intact Mandel-buds. Today's midget lies near the end of the filament that extends from this bud. I named the picture "A Thorny Minibrot" after studying the image for several minutes and finding nothing better, and rated it an average 5. The render time of 26+ seconds from the parameter file is surprisingly fast. The download will take a few seconds longer. The choice is up to the viewer. The GIF file of the image may be found on Usenet at: and within 18 hours or so at: The fractal weather today was increasingly cloudy with a temperature of 33F (0.5C). Freezing rain is due to begin shortly, though nothing has appeared yet. The cats spent the day indoors, unhappy about the cold outdoors. It's time to shut things down and call it a night. Until tomorrow, take care, and see you in 15 hours. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ A_Thorny_Minibrot { ; time=0:00:26.47 -- SF5 on a p200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip center-mag=+1.36919600545343200/+0.37360798507764660\ /2337888/1/-127.499 params=1/-10/10/-2/0/900 float=y maxiter=3000 inside=0 logmap=14 periodicity=10 colors=000EYe<3>8MP7JL5GH<2>174vKDTC6yex<3>gVfbSbZPY\ as7<3>av4aw3aw3Vm2Pd2Jc19c0Cc16c0`cZ<3>IcHDcD9c84c4Z\ cp<3>LcVHcQEcLAmF7mA3m5dmK<3>TmEQwC<3>Ew7Bw58w45z22z\ 1fzr<2>AzDozA<6>Qz5Mz4Iz3<3>3z0yz_<7>SzGOzEKzC<3>4z2\ _zl<4>LzSIzOFzK<3>3z46zd3zKHz`<8>7zG6zD5zB<3>1z2Dzk<\ 2>3zCTzV<4>GzIEzFCzC<2>4z52z21zJ<3>0zB0z90z7<2>0z1Yz\ k<3>BzG5z8mzU<3>PzFIzBCz76z3Kzy<3>CzbAzX9zS<3>1z5dzC\ <6>Kz6Hz5Ez4<3>2z0szL<5>UzBPz9Lz8<3>4z1wzR<3>UzDMzAF\ z67z3Uzi<7>EzLCzIAzF<3>2z3dzS<3>RzINzGKzE<2>Az7ezd<3\ >_zjZzkjzivzg<3>wz7<4>Lz` } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ (v. 1.21) Date: 14 Dec 2000 14:55:59 -0500 Instead of &beta, isn't there something like &ss or &doubles that represents the same character? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thore Berntsen" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bug in fractint animator. Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:39:03 +0100 We're talking about a betaversion here... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:51 PM > >The problem is in the FANIM.PIF file. This can be fixed in two ways. > > > >1. You could simply delete it, and a new one will be created. > >2. You could rigthclick the file in Explorer, select Properties, click on > >the Program tab. There will You probably see that the Working directory is > >set to C:\fractint not e:\fractint as it should for You. Just change it! > > CMIIW, but isn't changing the directory on the system tab supposed to do > this? If not, why require people to specify the directory in two places, but > only document one of them? > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: (fractint) Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ (v. 1.21) Date: 15 Dec 2000 13:00:13 +1300 "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> said: > Instead of &beta, isn't there something like &ss or &doubles that > represents the same character? > No, β refers to the lowercase Greek letter beta. The character you're referring to is the "ess-zed" or sharp-s character ß, which as far as I know is a peculiar to German. It's rendered as "ss" in English. Morgan L. Owens "Weierstrass, Weierstraß" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 15-12-00 (Silversmith [7]) Date: 15 Dec 2000 00:37:05 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 15, 2000 (Rating 7) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Another evening with telephone problems, and a C-FOTD to post. I wonder if I'll ever get it sent on its way. I'll cut the notes short just to be safe. It would be a shame if the picture doesn't make it, but that's the way it goes sometimes. The formula behind the image is -2(1/Z)-Z^(-2)+(1/C). Yes, I realize that it's whimsical -- almost all my fractals are. That's what makes finding fractals with M-Mix4 such fun. I named the picture, which rates a 7, "Silversmith". I have no idea why. I guess it has a bit of silver color in it. With a render time of 7-1/2 minutes on a 200mhz Pentium, the parameter file is a bit slow. The better choice is to download the GIF image file from the Usenet binary newsgroup: (if you have access to the group), or from the W.W.W. URL: if you don't. The fractal weather today started rainy but cleared in the afternoon. The temperature of 46F (8C) was mild enough, but due to the wetness, the fractal cats remained indoors. That's it for today. I'll return tomorrow with another interesting fractal. And one of these days I'm actually going to deliver some philosophy. Until next time, take care, and the longer it takes the philosophy to appear, the more profound it will be when it does. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Silversmith { ; time=0:07:36.66 -- SF5 on a P200 ; Version 2000 Patchlevel 14 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+2.35040398558577500/+4.09464078855104500\ /5749290/1/47.499 params=2/-1/1/-2/-2/400 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 logmap=120 periodicity=10 colors=00000Y00W00W<2>00P00M00L00I00H00E00C00F00H00K\ 00L00O10P20R40U60V<2>A0aC0cE0dF0gH0hI0kH0lL0oL0qL0rK\ 0oK0lI0jI0gI0eH2cH4`H6YF8VFAUFCREEOEGLEIK<8>c_heakhc\ nkeqngsqiwskywmzyozzqzzrzzrzzrzzrx<3>zrjzrgzrczs`zsW\ zuUzuRzjVzgYzdWzaWz_VzWVzVVzUUySUxSSwRSuPSsORrORqMPo\ LPnKPlKOkIOjHMhFMgFMeELdCLdCLcHOcKRcMUcPWcS_aW`a_caa\ eadhagkajlcnocqqcurcxsdzw<2>dzzczwaus`lo<2>WOeVFaU6_\ S0WM0`H0dA0h40l00q00u00y00z04z1Az4Hz9MzESzHYzLVxPUu\ <2>aLleIjjHghCde9ac6_a7W_AUYCRVFOSILRKIOMFLPFKREHUCF\ VCMSKSPP_OVdL`kIeqHkxEqzCwYjS`gVaeWddYec_ga`j`ck_dnW\ e<2>sSjuRlxPnyOozMqzKrzIszHw<3>zAzzFxzIszLoxOkqRkjUk\ cWlW_lP`lUanWcn`dncdneeojgolhoqjqsjqxkqzlrznrzorzorz\ qszruzsuzuwzwxzxxzxy<10>zxzzxzzxy<13>zxz } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) Repost C-FOTD 15-12-00 Date: 15 Dec 2000 19:52:55 -0500 (EST) Fractal enthusiasts: I inadvertently posted the wrong parameter file of yesterday's FOTD, which had an overall magenta cast. The correct parameter file is attached below. The difference is small but significant. Sorry about that. Jim M. START========================================================= Silversmith { ; time= 7-1/2 minutes reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+2.35040398558577500/+4.09464078855104500\ /5749290/1/47.499 params=2/-1/1/-2/-2/400 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 logmap=120 periodicity=10 colors=00003Y03W03W<2>03P03M03L03I03H03E03C03F03H03K\ 03L03O13P23R43U63V<2>A3aC3cE3dF3gH3hI3kH3lL3oL3qL3rK\ 3oK3lI3jI3gI3eH5cH7`H9YFBVFDUFFREHOEJLELK<8>cbhedkhf\ nkhqnjsqlwsnywpzyrzztzzuzzuzzuzzux<3>zujzugzuczv`zvW\ zxUzxRzmVzjYzgWzdWzbVzZVzYVzXUyVUxVSwUSuSSsRRrRRqPPo\ OPnNPlNOkLOjKMhIMgIMeHLdFLdFLcKOcNRcPUcSWcV_aZ`abcad\ eaghajkamlcqoctqcxrczsdzw<2>dzzczwaxs`oo<2>WReVIaU9_\ S3WM3`H3dA3h43l03q03u03y03z07z1Dz4Kz9PzEVzH`zLYxPXu<\ 2>aOleLjjKghFdeCac9_aAW_DUYFRVIOSLLRNIOPFLSFKUEHXCFY\ CMVKSSP_RVdO`kLeqKkxHqzFwYmS`jVahWdgYef_gd`jcckbdnZe\ <2>sVjuUlxSnyRozPqzNrzLszKw<3>zDzzIxzLszOoxRkqUkjXkc\ ZlWblPclUdnWfn`gncgnehojjolkoqmqsmqxnqzorzqrzrrzrrzt\ szuuzvuzxwzzxzzxzzy<10>zzzzzzzzy<13>zzz } END========================================================= Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 16-12-00 (Fractured Fractal [6]) Date: 15 Dec 2000 21:49:47 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 16, 2000 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: OK, so I made a mistake. I posted the wrong version of yesterday's fractal. To atone for my misdeed I offer humble apologies, and vow never to do it again. The difference is a mere three-step increase in the overall green level, but without the increase, the silvery effect just isn't there. Today's fractal is a fractured, disjointed affair. The unusual effect of bits and pieces of disconnected fractal stuff arranged into filaments and circles is created entirely by the coloring. The expression -6Z^(-2)-Z^(-8)+(1/C) was iterated by the MandelbrotMix4 formula to create the image, which renders in a speedy 1-minute, 10-seconds from the attached parameter file I named the picture, (if that's what it is), "Fractured Fractal". (This might be the second time I've used this name.) I then rated it a 6. The GIF image file downloads in about the same time from: or from: The fractal weather today was mostly sunny but chilly, with a temperature of 39F (+4C) that was just a bit too cold for the dynamic duo of lazy cats. They spent the day inside, studying the half-decorated Christmas tree. I'm about out of steam, so I'll call it a night and shut things down. Until tomorrow, take care, and when you discover the secret of the universe, let me in on it. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Fractured_Fractal { ; time=0:01:10.20 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=-1.35635474669948800/+0.33386541040661780\ /1.052043e+009/1/-119.999 params=6/-2/1/-8/-2/325 float=y maxiter=350 inside=0 logmap=19 periodicity=10 colors=000AAK<4>AAK<4>AAKcUKzAOzzzGzNzz0zc0zm0zm0LBI\ <3>OCEPCDQCCRCBfZL<7>YMFXLFWJE<2>TFCSDBPmk<11>RQOROM\ RMK<3>RECIbdJ_aKXZLWW<4>QoHRsEwwClwBawBcw1<8>Ww7Vw8V\ w8<3>RwBVwG<3>SwDSwCRwBGwk<2>PwKewV<7>YwKXwJWwH<3>Sw\ C4wD<3>EwCGwCIwB<2>PwBYwY<4>VwOUwMTwK<3>RwClwT<2>WwF\ CwN<3>OwD_ww<8>UwWUwTTwQ<3>RwERwW<3>RwLRwIRwGRwDpwS\ <3>WwEYwU<12>TwHTwGSwF<3>RwB6wx<6>Hw_IwWKwS<3>QwEJwL\ <9>OwFPwEPwD<3>RwB0wo9waIwO4wN<3>IwGLwEOwCSw0<3>Rw8R\ wAuwp<3>`wPWwIDwABwI9wP<2>AwR } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 17-12-00 (The Undecided One [?]) Date: 16 Dec 2000 21:34:45 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 17, 2000 (Rating ?) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: I can't decide how to rate today's fractal -- this is why I named it "The Undecided One". I'm uncertain whether I like it or not. One glance pleases me, another displeases me. The striking reds and greens, which sometimes appear just right, at other times appear discordant and downright muddy. As a result of my indecision, I have not rated the image at all. I leave it to the viewer to rate the image as they see fit. To produce the image, the expression Z^(1.2)-0.9Z^(-1.3)+(1/C) was iterated by that most prolific of all my formulae, MandelbrotMix4. The parameter file renders in 5 minutes; the GIF image downloads in 1/5 the time. The image may be found at: and at: The fractal weather here at Fractal Central today was cold and wet. The temperature topped out at 41F (+5C), which is too cold for the sensitive fractal cats, who got no closer to the outdoors than the window. I'll return tomorrow. Until then, take care. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ The_Undecided_One { ; time=0:05:03.78 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+0.79542147989313690/+1.33561358576373700\ /5.13581e+008/1/9.999 params=-1/1.2/0.9/-1.3/-2/900 float=y maxiter=900 inside=0 logmap=109 periodicity=9 colors=000C03C04D16F47G79P96YA3dC1mD0uF0zF0zF0zG0zI1\ xJ6uJApLFlMJiMOdOS`PXYP`TQdPSiMSlPVmQYoS`pTcpVdrYgs_\ js`muaptcpr_llXecT`VPWLMQCJM3GJ0II0JI0LL1MP4MV6U`9Zd\ AciDhlFmoIrsJrvMrzOozQlzSizO<3>Xc6TY1MS0IR0FQ07T0AX0\ C_0Dc0Gf1Ii3Ll4<3>SyATzAQz9<2>Mx4Lx3Jv1Iv0Gu0Fu0Ds0C\ s0Ar09r07p06p03i01a30VA0OG0GO09T01`00f00i00j01m03o04\ r07s09v0Ax0Cy0Dz0Gz<3>0Mz0Oz0Xz0ds0mi0v_0zP7yQLuQYoQ\ ljSydSz`SzcV<3>zoczrfzugyxjxzlvzouzpdzlPziQz`<2>VzFX\ z7Xz0`i9dQIi7PfAScDV`FYYI_VLaSMdQPfOQiLTlIXmFYpC`sAa\ u9Vu9Pu7Iu7Cu64u60u`fzQdlGdY6dL0d60d00g30iC0jL0lT0oc\ 0pl0ru0sz<3>0az0Yz0Tz<3>0Cy07x03x00x00x01v07u0Du0Js0\ Pr0Tr0_p0do0jo0pm0um4rg7pcCoYFmTJlOMjJQgFTi9Yj4`l0dm\ 0go0cp0`r1Ys6VuCSvGPxMMyS<2>DzfAzl7zpDzjIzfMzaSzY<2>\ dzLfzJgzIgzIizGizFjzFjzDlzClzCQzCTzAXz7<3>gz1 } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: (fractint) [Fwd: Complete Archive of Fractal-Art] Date: 18 Dec 2000 00:37:24 -0600 Hello, I just finished assembling the complete archive of the Fractal-Art mailing list from its inception in February 1997 until the present. There's currently a total of 6200 messages in the archive, and the archive will be periodically updated. The text file describing the structure of the archive is appended below. You can retrieve the archive files from the anonymous ftp directory at the following URL: ftp://ftp.aros.net/pub/users/noring/fractal-art/ Obviously, the current archive is not in a nice, web-convenient form, but it certainly can be converted into something web-friendly (there are tools out there to do it), and I intend at some future time to do so. In the meantime, I encourage those interested in the archive to download and separately archive the files for safe-keeping. There's a lot of interesting information in the archive, and *lots* of Fractint parameter/formula files in the early years. I especially want to thank Paul N. Lee who supplied to me the complete Fractal-Art archive in the mbox form I needed from May 1998 until March 2000, a time period I was missing. Enjoy! Jon Noring *********************************************************************** file 'archive.txt' at ftp://ftp.aros.net/pub/users/noring/fractal-art/ ==================================== Fractal-Art Archive Information File ==================================== --------------------------- Important Copyright Notice: --------------------------- Each message in this archive is copyrighted, owned by the writer of the message. This archive is for personal use only -- you may NOT republish or redistribute any message (or any portion thereof in excess of Fair Use) without the consent of its writer. Most fractal image parameters, formulas, color maps, etc., contained within the messages are also separately protected under copyright law. ---------------- Acknowledgement: ---------------- I thank Paul N. Lee, who generously forwarded to me his archive of Fractal-Art messages from May 1998 to March 2000, a time period I was missing. His fractal-related web sites are: http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Software.html http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Links.txt http://home.att.net/~Paul.N.Lee/Fractal_Census.html -------------------- Archive Description: -------------------- This anonymous ftp directory contains nearly all of the unfiltered messages posted to the Fractal-Art mailing list from its inception in February 1997. Unfiltered means that off-topic, administrative, and "fluff-only" messages (e.g., "me too", "I agree", etc.) have largely not been culled out. Fortunately, these unwanted messages comprise only a small percentage of the archive. Each file contains 100 messages in unix mbox format and readable as ASCII text. To save on storage space and download time, each file has been zip compressed. Do note that each file uses Windows/DOS type EOL (end-of-lines) and under unix the file may require deleting the last character in each line (a CR, or a "^M") in order to properly read the file. Each file is given the name 'faxxxxx', where 'xxxxx' is the starting message number. For example, file 'fa00001' contains messages 1 through 100; file 'fa03801' contains messages 3801 to 3900. Following is a date summary for the archive files, followed by the host domain history. File | Start Date | End Date ---------+---------------+-------------- fa00001 | 26-Feb-1997 | 04-Mar-1997 fa00101 | 05-Mar-1997 | 13-Mar-1997 fa00201 | 13-Mar-1997 | 21-Mar-1997 fa00301 | 21-Mar-1997 | 03-Apr-1997 fa00401 | 04-Apr-1997 | 15-Apr-1997 fa00501 | 15-Apr-1997 | 24-Apr-1997 fa00601 | 24-Apr-1997 | 04-May-1997 fa00701 | 05-May-1997 | 13-May-1997 fa00801 | 13-May-1997 | 20-May-1997 fa00901 | 20-May-1997 | 03-Jun-1997 fa01001 | 03-Jun-1997 | 18-Jun-1997 fa01101 | 17-Jun-1997 | 30-Jun-1997 fa01201 | 30-Jun-1997 | 31-Jul-1997 fa01301 | 01-Aug-1997 | 29-Aug-1997 fa01401 | 29-Aug-1997 | 17-Sep-1997 fa01501 | 17-Sep-1997 | 13-Oct-1997 fa01601 | 13-Oct-1997 | 30-Oct-1997 fa01701 | 30-Oct-1997 | 14-Nov-1997 fa01801 | 14-Nov-1997 | 07-Dec-1997 fa01901 | 07-Dec-1997 | 01-Jan-1998 fa02001 | 01-Jan-1998 | 21-Jan-1998 fa02101 | 21-Jan-1998 | 29-Jan-1998 fa02201 | 29-Jan-1998 | 21-Feb-1998 fa02301 | 21-Feb-1998 | 16-Mar-1998 fa02401 | 16-Mar-1998 | 01-Apr-1998 fa02501 | 01-Apr-1998 | 22-Apr-1998 fa02601 | 22-Apr-1998 | 12-May-1998 fa02701 | 12-May-1998 | 07-Jun-1998 fa02801 | 07-Jun-1998 | 24-Jun-1998 fa02901 | 24-Jun-1998 | 11-Jul-1998 fa03001 | 11-Jul-1998 | 20-Jul-1998 fa03101 | 20-Jul-1998 | 26-Jul-1998 fa03201 | 26-Jul-1998 | 11-Aug-1998 fa03301 | 11-Aug-1998 | 09-Sep-1998 fa03401 | 09-Sep-1998 | 17-Sep-1998 fa03501 | 17-Sep-1998 | 02-Oct-1998 fa03601 | 02-Oct-1998 | 27-Oct-1998 fa03701 | 27-Oct-1998 | 18-Nov-1998 fa03801 | 18-Nov-1998 | 17-Dec-1998 fa03901 | 18-Dec-1998 | 21-Jan-1999 fa04001 | 20-Jan-1999 | 17-Mar-1999 fa04101 | 17-Mar-1999 | 23-Apr-1999 fa04201 | 23-Apr-1999 | 25-May-1999 fa04301 | 25-May-1999 | 13-Jun-1999 fa04401 | 12-Jun-1999 | 17-Jun-1999 fa04501 | 17-Jun-1999 | 29-Jun-1999 fa04601 | 29-Jun-1999 | 09-Jul-1999 fa04701 | 09-Jul-1999 | 10-Aug-1999 fa04801 | 10-Aug-1999 | 07-Sep-1999 fa04901 | 07-Sep-1999 | 05-Oct-1999 fa05001 | 05-Oct-1999 | 31-Oct-1999 fa05101 | 01-Nov-1999 | 19-Nov-1999 fa05201 | 20-Nov-1999 | 19-Feb-2000 fa05301 | 19-Feb-2000 | 19-Apr-2000 fa05401 | 23-Apr-2000 | 03-Jul-2000 fa05501 | 03-Jul-2000 | 06-Sep-2000 fa05601 | 06-Sep-2000 | 23-Oct-2000 fa05701 | 23-Oct-2000 | 25-Oct-2000 fa05801 | 25-Oct-2000 | 26-Oct-2000 fa05901 | 26-Oct-2000 | 01-Nov-2000 fa06001 | 01-Nov-2000 | 04-Nov-2000 fa06101 | 04-Nov-2000 | 16-Nov-2000 Fractal-Art Domain Host History: Posts 1-2734: aros.net (Commercial Internet Service Provider) Posts 2735-4979: icd.com (ICD, Inc.) Posts 4980- : fractalus.com (Fractal Art Web Site) For further information, or to suggest improvements to this archive, contact Jon E. Noring (noring@olagrande.net) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jean-Pierre Louvet" Subject: Re: (fractint) Off topic (was: Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ) Date: 18 Dec 2000 12:09:56 +0100 Morgan and all who are interested, I have made a little page (sorry, in French, but it is not difficult to understand it) with several coding options for the same characters. You can test it with your browser and say me what you see. I observe that IE5 has not problem whatever the code used and that Netscape has problems on the same computer. http://www-hs.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/test/caracteres-speciaux.html I know that alpha, beta, gamma are not ISO latin-1 characters but it is strange that Netscape shows problem, for example with English quotation marks when translated into entities. The entities where introduced in HTML to code characters which are not standards in US ASCII. I emphasize on the point that HTML-TIDY is supported by the W3C and conversions made by this programs are expected to meet with the HTML rules. J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)05-56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux 1 | 33405 Talence CEDEX France | email : louvet@hse.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr Fractales sur serveur Web Universite Bordeaux I : http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:40 AM > At 15:22 11/12/2000 +0100, Jean-Pierre Louvet wrote: > >In spite of the fact that the html code was carefully checked with the > >validator html-Tidy (written by Dave Ragett, a gourou of the W3C) I was > >informed, thanks to Angela Wilczynski that there were problems with > >Netscape. > > You must have altered the page > > >http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ > since writing the above. My copy of HTML-Tidy described it as "HTML > Proprietary" > and refused to attach a DOCTYPE imprimatur. That 'orrible marquee tag > probably had something to do with it. > > >It appears that this browser doesn't match with all the HTML standards > >because it doesn't understand several entities like “ or β > Neither of which are ISO-8859-1 (ie. Latin-1) characters. Whether these > render or not depend on whether you have a font which includes them > (otherwise how's the browser supposed to know what a β looks like? And > who want's to load their system down with a pile of Unicode font files at > 13MB each?). > > >The new version 1.21 is compatible with Netscape 4 and IE5 (don't use > >Netscape or Mozilla 6 wich have too much bugs). > Well, Mozilla 0.6 is still in pre-1.0 development, so you can't expect > perfection (though it's a lot more usable than Netscape 4.x). As for > Netscape 6, which is worse, AOL doesn't have that excuse. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 18-12-00 (Glowing [6]) Date: 18 Dec 2000 08:16:25 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 18, 2000 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Today's C-FOTD is being posted the next morning due to a power failure. The discussion is short because I lost it when the power went off. The image itself, which I named "Glowing" and which rates a 6, survived. The iterated formula behind the image is quite a strange one -- 0.0005*Z^(1234)+0.05*Z^(-12.34)+(1/C). I chose the parameters by shutting off my mind (an easy task) and putting my fingers on 'random'. The result speaks for itself. The parameter file runs rather slowly, requiring 14 minutes on an outdated Pentium 200mhz. But a faster way of viewing the image is available. The pre-rendered image file is posted to the Usenet binary newsgroup: and as soon as Paul can get the image file on his site, it will be available on the Web at the URL: The fractal weather today (now yesterday) was most active. The day started with heavy thunder-storms, which gave way to warm midday sunshine and a summer-like temperature of 62F (17C). The fractal cats took advantage of the pleasant conditions by spending several hours outdoors. But later in the afternoon the clouds returned, with high winds near 60mph (90kph), more rain and rapidly falling temperatures, which changed the rain to snow before it ended. I assume the high winds caused the power outage. And now I've got a day's work to finish. Until next time, which will arrive in only 12 hours or so, take care, and don't be left in the dark about fractals. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Glowing { ; time=0:13:58.88 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2000 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+1.135217862681659/+0.00308863354269522/3\ .369515e+008/1/-70 params=1/1234/100/-12.34/-0.9995/0 float=y maxiter=1800 inside=0 logmap=274 periodicity=9 colors=000KJP<8>KJP<3>KJPKJOMJQOJSQIUSIRUITWAVYCX_CZ\ aC_<2>gCWiCYkG_mK`oPcsUdvYfwbgyihznjzukzzqzymzuhzqfz\ mayk_yhWweTvbOt_KsYIsVE<2>nN5mL1kK0mI0<3>sIJtIOvIUwI\ YyIc<3>zIzzIzzIzzKz<3>zKzzKzzKzzKzzKzzKyzKwzKwzIszHn\ zHjwGftEaqEYpDW<3>dCFaCB_C8YC5XC0XC0<2>TD0RH0QL0QP0O\ T0NW0Ma0Ke1Ki1<2>Hv5Fv6Fv6HvEHrMHkUHeaEWkH_hJdfKgcNk\ `OoYRrWTvUWvRXvO_vM`vJcvHdvFcvEcvEavE<3>_vD_sD_oDYlD\ YiB<3>WZBWWB_V`aVz`Yt<3>WhaUkYTmTTpORsKQvFOvBNv8Mv2K\ v0Kv0Ev08v11s50m80hA0l80o60r50t20v10v00c00c00c00c01c\ 02c00c0mz0mz0mz0mz4mz8mzAmzEmzIWtM_rQaoTflXhi`mgdpdh\ sakzQMzPRyPXtN`nNfjMjfMpaMtjWYseDzo0pd6fUKWK_MCmKNaJ\ _RIoHHv6Gv0Iv0<3>QvASvDUvEWvFYvF_vH<5>kvKmvKovMqvMsv\ NuvNwvMyvK<4>zvIzvHzvF<4>zvDzvjzvm } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.P. Louvet" Subject: Re: (fractint) Corrections to the Fractal Art FAQ (v. 1.21) Date: 19 Dec 2000 00:14:09 +0100 Sorry, always off topic. Morgan, Yes, marquee is a proprietary tag but it doesn't introduce any drawback: Netscape shows it as static text. It is not the case when Netscape can't understand entities which are part of the HTML standard. I have just checked my test page with Mozilla on a Linux box and it display without problem all the special characters, including Greek ones (I don't think that the GNU distribution of Mandrake 7.2 has many Unicode fonts included). But I don't recommend Mozilla or Netscape 6 for now because there are many problems unsolved in these releases. Wait and see. IE 5.5 is the best for a (few?) time. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)05-56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux I | 33405 Talence CEDEX France | email : louvet@hse.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:40 AM > At 15:22 11/12/2000 +0100, Jean-Pierre Louvet wrote: > >In spite of the fact that the html code was carefully checked with the > >validator html-Tidy (written by Dave Ragett, a gourou of the W3C) I was > >informed, thanks to Angela Wilczynski that there were problems with > >Netscape. > > You must have altered the page > > >http://www.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/fractals/ > since writing the above. My copy of HTML-Tidy described it as "HTML > Proprietary" > and refused to attach a DOCTYPE imprimatur. That 'orrible marquee tag > probably had something to do with it. > > >It appears that this browser doesn't match with all the HTML standards > >because it doesn't understand several entities like “ or β > Neither of which are ISO-8859-1 (ie. Latin-1) characters. Whether these > render or not depend on whether you have a font which includes them > (otherwise how's the browser supposed to know what a β looks like? And > who want's to load their system down with a pile of Unicode font files at > 13MB each?). > > >The new version 1.21 is compatible with Netscape 4 and IE5 (don't use > >Netscape or Mozilla 6 wich have too much bugs). > Well, Mozilla 0.6 is still in pre-1.0 development, so you can't expect > perfection (though it's a lot more usable than Netscape 4.x). As for > Netscape 6, which is worse, AOL doesn't have that excuse. > > Morgan L. Owens > "Oh, why not?" > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 19-12-00 (The Mandelbrot Blues [4]) Date: 18 Dec 2000 20:43:01 -0500 (EST) Classic FOTD -- December 19, 2000 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: I think I'm growing bored with Mandelbrot midgets. It seems that almost every FOTD for the past year has featured a Mandelbrot midget. It's not that anything is wrong with midgets, it's that fractals with midgets are but an infinitesimal part of the fractals that exist. Perhaps starting in January I'll concentrate on the non-critical parts of fractals created by the M-Mix4 formula -- the parts that I've been ignoring until now. But January is still 2 weeks away, and today's fractal features another midget. The formula that drew today's midget is -15Z^(-1.15)-Z^(-11.5)+(1/C). It's a simple formula, whose potential belies its simplicity. The name I gave the image -- "The Mandelbrot Blues" -- is a reflection of my increasing dis-satisfaction with the seemingly unending string of Minibrots, as well as the blue area surrounding the midget. The rating of 4, which equals a little below average, also reflects my dis-satisfaction. At 11 minutes, the parameter file is slow. The download however is fast. The download may be found by going to the Usenet group: alt.binaries.pictures.fractals and searching for the header 'Fractal for Today, 19-12-00' The image also will soon be available on Paul Lee's web site at the URL: The fractal weather today was sunny but quite cold, with a temperature of 34F (+1C), which kept the sensitive fractal cats indoors. The philosophy is yet simmering, as it has been for several months. I hope to again find my muse once the holiday rush has passed. But of course, there's no guarantee of anything except that it's now time to shut down the fractal shoppe, comfort the fractal cats, and call it an evening. Until next time, take care, and give a gift of a fractal -- not a print but an actual fractal. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ TheMandelbrotBlues { ; time=0:10:51.87 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+3.092624493671836/-1.329957489597437/639\ 706.4/1/-110 params=15/-1.15/1/-11.5/-2/500 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 logmap=187 periodicity=10 colors=000Mxe<22>ebMeaLf`K<2>iYHjXGi_E<8>rEPsCQt9R<3\ >x0V<5>`5LX6JT6I<3>D9C<6>BW_BZcBbf<3>Bns<3>9lo9kn9km\ <18>8Ui8Ti8Si<3>8Oh7Mj<18>ISMITKJTJ<3>LUEGQE<12>hk9j\ l8mn8<3>tu6<24>vfHveIvdI<3>vbKycJ<3>saKqaLp`Ln`Lm`L<\ 3>qZMrZNsZNtYNuYNr_OmaOhcOchOZhPThPShP<3>NaQL_QKZR<2\ >GURISS<3>OSSPRTRRT<2>VRTWQUYSU<2>aYUf_Q<5>Xk`VmbTod\ SqfQsh<3>JxoIyqGzsFzt<8>UzqLzf } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Classic FOTD 20-12-00 (Cerulean Microbrot [6]) Date: 19 Dec 2000 23:35:29 EST Classic FOTD, December 20, 2000 -- Rating 6 Fractal enthusiasts and visionaries: I hate computer crashes. This morning, the computer with all my FOTD files crashed. Its hard drive is dead as a flock of dodos. Luckily I had all the important files backed up -- all that is except the program files that connect me to Mindspring, or Earthlink as it is now called. I downloaded the files and never thought to back them up. As a result, I'll be posting through AOL for a few days, until I can replace the Mindspring programs. In the meantime, the fractals will continue unabated. Today's effort, which I named "Cerulean Microbrot" and rated a 6, features an unusually well-defined Mandelbrot midget in shades of tan and blue. The expression -1.76Z^(-1.1)+1.44Z^(0.9)+(1/C) created the image, and of course the MandelbrotMix4 formula did the calculating. The parameter file renders in 11 minutes on a 200mhz Pentium. Unfortunately, since I have no access to Mindspring and it is very awkward to post binaries through AOL, the GIF image is not available on the usual newsgroup. But it is available on Paul Lee's web site at the URL: At least it will be available as soon as Paul has a chance to render the image and put it on the site. The fractal weather today was cloudy and cold, with a temperature of freezing, which kept the two fractal cats snug indoors. In the afternoon, a light snow began falling. The snow became heavier as night fell, with about 3cm now covering the ground. And that's it for today. I'll return tomorrow with another fractal. Until then, take care, and become one with the world of fractals. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com jimmuth@aol.com START PARAMETER FILE=================================== Cerulean_Microbrot { ; time=0:10:58.83 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=-0.18709960624948350/+0.78487204294931570\ /9.299194e+011 params=-1.1/-1.1/0.9/0.9/0.6/400 float=y maxiter=1500 inside=0 logmap=197 periodicity=9 colors=000LwJJwI<2>HwGGwGEwEEwEGqGGlGGhGGbGGZGGVGGQG\ <3>G8GG4GG0GG0G`IMxcgubh<11>cbtbbu`bv<3>WbzPQGIGPC5I\ A7M<2>9AV9AX9C_8Db8Ee8Eh7Gk7Hl7In5Jo5Jq5Lq4Mr4Nt4Nu3\ Pw3Qx3Sz3Sz7VzAXzD_zHbzLezNhzSkzVlz<2>euzixznzzqzzuz\ zxzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxxzuuzttzrrzooznnzllziizhhzffzcc<3>\ zXXzWW2ut4tq5to7rl9rkAqhCqfEocGobHo`GnVGnPGlJGlEGk8G\ k3Gi0Gi0Ih0Jh0Mf4Nf8QeASeEVcIWcMZbQ_bTb`Xc``f_eh_ikZ\ llZqoXuqXztWzuWzwSuwPiwM_uLZtLZtLXrJXrJWqJWqIVoIVoIT\ nITnHSlHSkHSkGQiGQiGPhGPhENfENfEMeDMeDLcDLcDLcDJcDHc\ DGcDDcDCfCAhC9iC8kA7<3>q92r90t80<2>x80qC7kGIcJVZNf<2\ >PWWMZSJ`NHcLEfH<3>4r47o39l2Ak2Dh0Ef0Hc0J`0M_0PX0SW0\ VT0XQ0_P0bM0eL0hI0kH0nJ0<3>zP0zQ0zS0zV0<3>z_0z`0zb0z\ c0zf0zh0zi0zk0zl2<2>zq2znNzoMzqLzrLztJ<2>zxIzzMzzMzz\ LzzLzzJ } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END PARAMETER FILE===================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 21-12-00 (Cobwebs [4]) Date: 20 Dec 2000 23:47:57 EST Classic FOTD -- December 21, 2000 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: It was another busy day as I fought with a stubborn computer, but as always I did manage to find a quick fractal. I named the image "Cobwebs" because that's what came to mind as I studied the scene. I rated it a below-average 4, mostly because I've seen and rejected too many similar images in my fractal travels. The formula 0.2Z^(4)-0.2Z^(-6)+(1/C) is responsible for the image. The render time from the parameter file is a fast 2 minutes. Since I still have not regained access to Mindspring, the image file will not be posted to Usenet, though it will be posted to Paul Lee's Web site at the URL: The fractal weather today was sunny but very cold, with a morning temperature of 14F (-10C) and an afternoon high of 26F (-3C). Such temperatures keep all fractal cats including Thomas and Tippy snug indoors. I'd write more, but I'm exhausted after fighting most of the day with a crashed computer. Hopefully, tomorrow will bring a better mood and a better fractal. Until then, take care, and we'll never run out of fractals. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Cobwebs { ; time=0:01:52.08 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+1.86091016607515800/-0.07077892494265253\ /5.488914e+008/1/72.5 params=-1/-6/1/4/-0.8/0 float=y maxiter=225 inside=0 logmap=37 periodicity=10 colors=000ADCAEABF9N`i<3>G15<3>DQ4KW4<3>ws3zy3rs7<2>\ PaGJWJKRM<6>PEAPC8QB6<3>S40<2>4M2<2>evb<3>mriorjqql<\ 2>wopvlovio<3>yZmzXmzUl<3>zJjzGjzEj<3>zGUzGQzGMzGI<3\ >zOXzP_zLVzSV<2>zKDzI8zD9z8Az4B<2>z8izAqzCx<3>zKxzMs\ zOn<3>wWVvYQu_L<3>pgSoiTokV<3>osaoucoveowfpxdpyb<7>p\ zQpzPpzN<3>pzHhz9<6>TzQRzTOzV<3>Gzc<8>9zP8zO7zM<3>5z\ G<7>WzIZzIazI<3>nzI<3>pz6pz3fzIXzXNzj<3>IztHzvazVuz4\ <9>uz2uz2uz2<3>uz2nz1kz2hz1<3>Jz0Cz06z0sz6<4>Gz18z0l\ zP<3>TzFOzCJzA<2>4z2TzN<3>HzDEzBBz9<2>2z2LzX<3>9zE6z\ 93z4MzJ<3>FzD } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 22-12-00 (Church Window [6]) Date: 21 Dec 2000 20:30:58 EST Classic FOTD -- December 22, 2000 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Today I am still grumpy. A combination of a broken computer, too much work, and too much seasonal rush has me out of sorts. I'll probably be grumpy all day, but luckily my grumpiness won't last too long, since this is the shortest day of the year. A bad mood however never deters me from the world of fractals, so despite my foul mood, I went searching. I found the FOTD after a 20-minute search. Today's fractal reminded me at once of a stained-glass window in a church. The name "Church Window" soon followed. The totally whimsical expression 21Z^(-1.21)+1.2Z^(-12.1)+(1/C) was iterated with an escape radius of 5000 to create the fractal, which I have graciously rated a 6. The render time from the parameter file is a nominal and exact 6 minutes. This is slow enough that I recommend going to the Web and downloading the GIF image from Paul Lee's web site at the URL: I will not be posting the FOTD images to Usenet until I get access to my Earthlink ISP, which with all the rush may be a matter of several weeks. The fractal weather today was partly sunny and cold, with a high temperature of only freezing, which was far too chilly for the dynamic duo of cats, who spent the day getting into trouble around the unfinished tree. (That's another job I've got to do.) Right now I'm going to shut down the fractal shoppe and eagerly call it a night. Until tomorrow, take care, and fractals, like rabbits, have the ability to multiply beyond all limits. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Church_Window { ; time=0:06:00.00 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+0.50906377629614/+0.665496317395552/7.42\ 1096e+007/1/-7.499 params=21/-1.21/1.2/-12.1/0/4900 float=y maxiter=1400 inside=0 logmap=82 periodicity=9 colors=000B00EB0D80D70D40D30D00D00A00<2>E00F00F00H22\ I32J33J43K63M74N74N86OA6QB6RB7RD7SE8UF8VF8VHAXIAYJBZ\ JBZKB_MDaNDbNEbOEcQEeQFfRFgSHgUHiUHjVIkXIkYJmYJnZJo_\ KoaKqaMrbMscMseNueNvfOwgOwiOyiQzjQzkRzmR<2>zuSzwMzuS\ zoYzgbyVgvNnuHsr8yo2zm0z<3>n0zn0zo2zo3zo3zo4zo6zo7zq\ 8zqAzqBzqBz<4>rIzrJzrJz<3>sOzsQzsRzuSzuSz<2>uXzuYzvZ\ zv_zv_z<4>wfzwgzwgzwizyjz<3>yozzqzyoz<3>sjzrizqgz<2>\ mczkbzjbziazg_zgZz<3>bUzaSz_RzZQzYQz<4>RJzQIzQHzOFzN\ EzMDz<3>HFzFFzEHz<3>8Jz7Jz6Kz7Kz7Mz<3>7Oz8Oz8Qz<2>8R\ z8SzASzAUzAUzAVzAVzAXz<4>BZzB_zB_zDaz<3>DczDczEez<3>\ EgzEgzEiz<3>EkzEkzEmz<3>EozEozEqz<2>ErzEszEuz<2>EyzE\ zzEzz<10>DzzDzzDzzDzzDzzDzzBzz<3>BzzEzzEzz } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 23-12-00 (Astara [6]) Date: 22 Dec 2000 20:35:15 EST Classic FOTD -- December 23, 2000 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: I have bad news and good news. The bad news is that due to a lack of time to do all that needs to be done at this busiest time of year, today's FOTD will be the last until January 3, 2001. The good news is that I will most certainly return in 11 days, and when I do, I will most likely have my philosophical batteries recharged. Today's FOTD will not only be the last until January 3, 2001. It will be the last of this week, the last of December, the last of the year 2000, the last of the 20th century, and the last of the 2nd millennium. The new millennium actually begins this year at midnight December 31. We're a year late because the Romans had no symbol for the number zero, and the first year A.D. was therefore called the year 1. The fractal of today was created by iterating the expression 0.33Z^(1.1)+0.03Z^(11)+(1/C), another of those totally whimsical expressions I so enjoy tapping out at random, then sitting back to see what happens. It is a particularly soft image, highlighted by arcing streaks of star-stuff. What else could I name the image but "Astara"? I rated the image a 6, mostly because it's pleasant to look at. With a run time of about 4-1/2 minutes on a Pentium 200mhz machine, the parameter file is a bit slow. Unfortunately, I still have not found the time to re-install and re-configure my backup FOTD computer to connect with Earthlink. Hopefully, when I return from my well-earned frenzy, I will have re-established my link with Earthlink. With Usenet eliminated, the easiest way to view today's image is to wait an hour or so to give Paul the time to post the image to his web site at the URL: and download it from there. The fractal weather today featured light snow in the morning and biting cold in the afternoon. The temperature of 26F (-3C) was far too chilly for any cats, fractal or otherwise, to be outdoors. The dynamic duo therefore spent the day stretched on the floor at the foot of the tree. And speaking of the tree, I've still got to place the final few ornaments. Until the 3rd of January, take care, and see you in 11 days. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Astara { ; time=0:04:21.78 -- SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=-5.159415014620404/-12.6983607282438/6680\ 644/1/52.499 params=11/1.1/1/11/-0.87/0 float=y maxiter=500 inside=0 logmap=82 periodicity=10 colors=000C0PA0MC0QC2SC3VC4ZC5`D7cD8gD9iDAlDCpFDrFFu\ FGyFHzFHzILvMPnQSgSW_WZSZ_LbbDdcCifD<2>tkKwmMznNzqQz\ rRzqVwpYrn_mnchlfcih_flWdnS`qPZuKVwGUzCQz8MzNNzUNz_P\ zfQylRvrSrySpzSlzSizPnrKrfFvW9zH4z90zC5zDCwFIrHNmIUh\ K_bMdYNkSPqNQvIRrK<3>WhNYfNZgLZhI<2>ff5hf0kd0ld0hh2f\ lAcnK<2>WyhUzqRzzPzzUzzYrzbkzfcyiWwnPurHrw9qz2nz0mz0\ ny0pu0qr0rn0tl0uh0vf0wb0y_0zW0zU0zS3z<2>RGvRLuRPr<3>\ QfmUifWl__ib<4>l`hnZiqYktVlvUmyRnzQpzNqzMrzLtzKkvIb<\ 2>cHCdFAdD9fC8fA7g95<2>h53i42i30i20k50<3>kK0kN0kQ0kU\ 0kY0k_0cb0Wd0Pg2Hi49l72n8<2>AnLDnPGnSKnW<2>RngUnkYnn\ <2>dnzgnzfizdfz<2>cVvbRu`Nt`Iq_Fp_AnZ7mY3lY0kW0iW0hS\ 0fP9dLIcHRbDZ_9gZ5pY2yW0zV0zY5zSDzNLzKSzF_zAgz5nz2vz\ 0zz0zz0yz0<3>pz0mz0kz0hz0gz0<3>Yz0Wz0Sz3<2>LzAIzFGzH\ DzK9zM<2>2zV0zY0z_0zbDzR } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Osher Doctorow" Subject: (fractint) Comments on Fractal Geometry and Number Theory - Doctorow Date: 22 Dec 2000 22:55:05 -0800 I have a few comments on M. L. Lapidus (U.C. Riverside) and M. van Frankenhuysen (U.C. Riverside) (Editors) Fractal Geometry and Number Theory - Complex dimensions of fractal strings and zeros of zeta functions, Birkhauser: Boston 2000. Lapidus in particular has numerous publications (some of which were developed in Vienna and the University of Cambridge and Institute des Hautes Etudes Scientifiues (IHES) in France) in this extremely innovative field which ties in with Gutzwiller's well-known work on quantum and classical chaos (e.g., Gutzwiller's 1989 book published by Springer). I am especially interested in their use of the Poisson summation formula for spectrum and periodic orbits of fractal strings, which involves infinite sums of simple exponentials of type exp(ks) or exp(kt). Fourier sums and integrals/transforms and Laplace transforms are of similar type, which means that most commonly encountered functions both in lower dimensional fractal strings/zeta functions and outside fractals can be approximated by generalized maximum entropy functions of LBP (logic-based probability) type. An open problem (page 218) is generalization to higher-dimensional fractal sets. Furthermore, a conjecture of the authors for self-similar fractal drums and fractal billiards is that an analogue of the Gutzwiller Trace Formula should hold for a suitable self-similar drum viewed, e.g., as a billiard table and that for the nonlattice case there exists an invariant ergodic measure with respect to which periodic orbits belonging to fractal billiard are equidistributed while in the lattice case the distribution of periodic orbits with regard to some suitable measure would describe their oscillatory behavior of particular order(s) and their concentration. In addition, this would explain whether oscillations of a particular order exist or do not exist in the spectrum of self-similar drums in the two types of case (p. 219). Note that a fractal drum is an open bounded subset of some Euclidean space with a fractal boundary and that the book studies the relationship between the shape or geometry of the drum and its sound (spectrum) especially for one-dimensional case of fractal strings and higher dimensional analogues of fractal sprays. LBP generalized maximum entropy is already known to select uniform/equidistributed cases as among the best type of probability distributions, and in the non-lattice case would indicate an ordering from best to worst (symbol >) as finite interval > nonnegative real line > symmetric graph distributions. Thus, the uniform or beta distribution would be candidates for best probability distributions in the conjecture, the gamma (including exponential and chi-square) distribution would be intermediate in optimality, and the normal/Gaussian or Student's t distributions would be least optimal. A similar generalization to arbitrary functions (whether deterministic or not) by LBP involves the ordering linear/quadratic/conic/simple exponential > inverse function (other than subtraction type) > integral type not covered by the above > composite function. See abstracts of 49 of my papers at http://www.logic.univie.ac.at (Institute for Logic of University of Vienna - select ABSTRACTS, then BY AUTHOR, then my name). Osher Doctorow Doctorow Consultants, West Los Angeles College, etc. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: (fractint) Request for Black and White Fractals Date: 23 Dec 2000 01:22:52 -0600 If anybody wishes to assist and individual with a special request, then here is what I received by email (along with a followup email allowing it to be posted): ______________________________________________________________________ Sandy Matrai wrote: > > What I am really seeking is Black and White imagery of > fractals for my baby. He is 8 weeks old and I have been > told black and white images are ideal at this age. Know > where I might find some B&W Fractal art?? Thanks so much > ______________________________________________________________________ Sandy Matrai wrote: > > I am more than happy for you to pass my email address to > those you think may be able to help me, so mail away! ______________________________________________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 07:22:05 -0600 What annoys me the most about posting fractal-art pictures or parameter files to either these discussion groups or to the fractal-art newsgroups is the nerve of some people who download those pictures and files that were created by, make use of it in some way that benefits them, and then ask for my permission to do what they have already done. This has happened to me several times in the past five years I've ve been on the Internet and I'm sure it has happened to some of you people too. Case in point: I just received this e-mail: Dear Mr. Margolis, A while back, I saved some of your fractals from alt.binaries.pictures.fractalsto make covers for the live Grateful Dead CD-Rs I collect. I've set up a website to offer covers from my collection for other folks to download. May I use a piece of your artwork? http://www.angelfire.com/rock/gdcdrcovers/demonstration.html is my dummy page with thumbnails of the covers. If you scroll down to 9-02-68, you'll see how I used your picture "Sierpinski Starpinski" and listed your copyright as the artist. The Grateful Dead allow people to trade their music as long as the discs or tapes aren't sold. The covers on the site are available for others to download free, so this would be a totally non-profit use of your image. Please let me know if I may use it! Many thanks, Jon Why do people such as Jonathan Miller take possession first and ask permission to do so afterward? It never made any sense to me. It seems as if people such as Mr. Miller have no concept of what copyright or copyright violations mean. They continue to take and take and feel that some of us should be honored that they cared enough about our artwork to steal it. Then they absurdly ask, "Now that we have it may we keep it?" Not only is Mr. Miller taking my artwork without getting my permission first, he's using it in a manner that may not be suitable to me. Shouldn't it be up to me, the artist, as to how my artwork is used? What if I don't want my artwork to appear on his covers for his Grateful Dead CDs? Don't I have the right to express that opinion before Mr. Miller creates his covers, especially since he's not paying for the privilege? I'm not the only victim of Mr. Miller's take first and ask permission second ways. I went to his Website and found names of other fractal artists whom I recognize from my participation in the Ultra Fractal discussion group. The artists and their artwork are: Rear image "Rainbow Tangles" copyright 1999 by Damien M. Jones. Front fractal "99101603m" copyright 1999 by G.W.F. Albrecht. Rear image "Futterbly2" copyright 2000 by Ray Dix. Other artists' names that I'm not familiar with who may be subscribed any of these three discussion groups are: Georg Carlson, Phillip Brown, Matthew "Schizo" Kost, Craig Blair, Stu Haluski, Aladrin Faehan, Karen McCormack, Estate of the late, great Rick Griffin, et al. If any of your names are here, you may want to contact Mr. Miller about his using your artwork. I have contacted Mr. Miller and have given him an emphatic "NO" for his use of my artwork and I have insisted that he remove the depicted CD cover in question from his Web site. I hope he has sense enough to honor my request. Bob Margolis Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 11:36:10 -0500 Bob, > Not only is Mr. Miller taking my artwork without getting my permission > first, he's using it in a manner that may not be suitable to me. > Shouldn't it be up to me, the artist, as to how my artwork is used? Maybe he set it up so you could see the use he'd make should you have given permission and just didn't understand that someone might be bothered by his doing so. Could be stupidity/insensitivity rather than theft. How quickly he removes your images from his site may be a good indicator. Still there at the moment. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 11:19:36 -0600 Mike Traynor wrote: > > Bob, > > > Maybe he ... just didn't understand that someone might be > bothered by his doing so. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. > Could be stupidity/insensitivity rather > than theft. There are no laws that I know of charging someone with being stupid or insensitive. There are plenty of laws regarding theft, which is the taking of another person's property without that person's consent. If I were to pick your pocket of your wallet and later write to you saying that I have your wallet and I've altered its contents--say by defacing the pictures in it of your family--and then I ask you if it's okay for what I have done, would you tell me that it's all right to keep the wallet and you don't mind if I defaced those pictures? Would you think that I was just being stupid or insensitive, rather than a thief? I don't see any difference between physical property and intellectual property in the cases referred to here. One doesn't take another's property without permission and then ask for permission to keep it afterward. Period. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevdog" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 11:02:48 -0800 You know, it's just a fractal. It existed before you came along and = will continue to exist after you leave. If I, on a fractal-making = excursion, were to somehow come up with the exact same parameters and = create the fractal you're speaking of, would I be somehow infringing on = your property? No. And even besides that, you won't be affected = either way by his using "your" fractal images on his CD covers. The = only people this affects are him and those that download his CD covers, = and it will only make them happy if you let them use "your" images.=20 He did more than was necessary when he listed your copyright and asked = permission. I think you need to get off of your "intellectual property" = highchair and think about whether this is really worth ranting about. =20 kevin What annoys me the most about posting fractal-art pictures or parameter files to either these discussion groups or to the fractal-art newsgroups is the nerve of some people who download those pictures and files that were created by, make use of it in some way that benefits them, and then ask for my permission to do what they have already done. This has happened to me several times in the past five years I've ve been on the Internet and I'm sure it has happened to some of you people too. Case in point: I just received this e-mail: Dear Mr. Margolis, A while back, I saved some of your fractals from=20 alt.binaries.pictures.fractalsto make covers for the live Grateful Dead=20 CD-Rs I collect. I've set up a website to offer covers from my collection=20 for other folks to download. May I use a piece of your artwork? http://www.angelfire.com/rock/gdcdrcovers/demonstration.html is my dummy = page with thumbnails of the covers. If you scroll down to 9-02-68, you'll=20 see how I used your picture "Sierpinski Starpinski" and listed your=20 copyright as the artist. The Grateful Dead allow people to trade their music as long as the discs or=20 tapes aren't sold. The covers on the site are available for others to=20 download free, so this would be a totally non-profit use of your image.=20 Please let me know if I may use it! Many thanks, Jon Why do people such as Jonathan Miller take possession first and ask permission to do so afterward? It never made any sense to me. It seems as if people such as Mr. Miller have no concept of what copyright or copyright violations mean. They continue to take and take and feel that some of us should be honored that they cared enough about our artwork to steal it. Then they absurdly ask, "Now that we have it may we keep it?" Not only is Mr. Miller taking my artwork without getting my permission first, he's using it in a manner that may not be suitable to me. Shouldn't it be up to me, the artist, as to how my artwork is used? What if I don't want my artwork to appear on his covers for his Grateful Dead CDs? Don't I have the right to express that opinion before Mr. Miller creates his covers, especially since he's not paying for the privilege? I'm not the only victim of Mr. Miller's take first and ask permission second ways. I went to his Website and found names of other fractal artists whom I recognize from my participation in the Ultra Fractal discussion group. The artists and their artwork are: Rear image "Rainbow Tangles" copyright 1999 by Damien M. Jones. Front fractal "99101603m" copyright 1999 by G.W.F. Albrecht. Rear image "Futterbly2" copyright 2000 by Ray Dix. Other artists' names that I'm not familiar with who may be subscribed any of these three discussion groups are: Georg Carlson, Phillip Brown, Matthew "Schizo" Kost, Craig Blair, Stu Haluski, Aladrin Faehan, Karen McCormack, Estate of the late, great Rick Griffin, et al.=20 If any of your names are here, you may want to contact Mr. Miller about his using your artwork. I have contacted Mr. Miller and have given him an emphatic "NO" for his use of my artwork and I have insisted that he remove the depicted CD cover in question from his Web site. I hope he has sense enough to honor my request. Bob Margolis Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:09:17 -0500 Bob, > Mike Traynor wrote: > > > > Bob, > > > > Maybe he ... just didn't understand that someone might be > > bothered by his doing so. > > Ignorance of the law is no excuse. No, but going by what you yourself post when you post a upr, it is not necessarily clear what implied rights you are granting, and you are granting an implied licence to at least generate the image. Expecting a person to understand the limits of implied licences is going beyond expecting someone not to walk off with your tangible personal property. I'm not sure whether the implied licence to one of your uprs on the UF list includes the right to save a copy to view later. Are you? > > Could be stupidity/insensitivity rather > > than theft. > ... > I don't see any difference between physical property and intellectual > property in the cases referred to here. Apparently American and Canadian legislators do. Before anyone cavils at citing these folk as paragons of wisdom, one should bear in mind that criminal sanctions for copyright violations are a creation of legislation. Criminal sanctions for copyright violation generally require something beyond mere infringement, such as use in business or actual interference in the business of the copyright holder. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:00:19 -0600 Kevdog wrote: > > I think you need to get off of your "intellectual property" highchair and think about whether this is really worth ranting about. > Yes, it is worth my "ranting." Not because it's a fractal picture, but because it's a copyrighted image. All copyrights should be respected no matter to what they are applied. If no respect is shown toward the copyright of one thing, then one can expect copyrights to be ignored on all things. You say, "If I, on a fractal-making excursion, were to somehow come up with the exact same parameters and create the fractal you're speaking of, would I be somehow infringing on your property? No." This is not what happened, and you know it. You're making a ridiculous argument that is nowhere close to what I was discussing. Stick to the point. You say, "And even besides that, you won't be affected either way by his using "your" fractal images on his CD covers." How do you know this? You sure make assumptions which show your lack of understanding about copyright infringement. If I create them then they are "my" fractal images. Not yours or anyone else's to do with in a public manner without my consent. Period. if you download them to your computer to enjoy them privately, that's not copyright infringement. But if you show them in a public forum such as a Website without obtaining permission first, then you are in violation of copyright law. Read copyright laws before you take a stance about which you know nothing. There are Websites where those laws can be reviewed. If you think I'm wrong then put up a Website showing Mickey Mouse and other Disney characters without asking permission first from the Walt Disney Company to do so. Then send e-mail to the company telling them what you've done and you want to use the characters on CD covers you designed. Then tell them to get off their "'intellectual property' highchair" (as you expressed it) and see how long it takes before their attorneys come knocking at your door. If you don't respect the copyright I hold on my artwork, then you probably don't respect copyrights held by anyone else either. So, there's no use reading about your ignorance of copyright laws any further. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:05:15 -0600 Mr. Miller has sent me e-mail saying he has removed my artwork from his Website and will not use it as his CD covers. The case is now closed. Merry Christmas. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 25 Dec 2000 14:34:53 +1300 At 11:02 24/12/2000 -0800, kevin wrote: >... It existed before you came along and will continue to exist after you >leave. So Ansel Adams' photos aren't worth anything? > If I, on a fractal-making excursion, were to somehow come up with the > exact same parameters and create the fractal you're speaking of... And the odds of that being...? Come on; you do have the _faintest idea_ how unlikely that scenario is? You could compare it to two authors independently writing the exact same novel - word for word. Morgan L. Owens "If I, on a fractal-making excursion, were to recreate an Ansel Adams photograph..." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 24 Dec 2000 20:44:38 -0500 "Morgan L. Owens" wrote: > "If I, on a fractal-making excursion, were to recreate an Ansel Adams > photograph..." We would elect you our King !!! H^) harry > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1 patch 5 Date: 24 Dec 2000 20:16:31 -0600 Patch 5 and its associated executable is now available at www.fractint.org. What's new: Updated the disk video help docs. The limit of disk video has been 32767x32767 since version 20.0. Fixed the tab and evolver screens so that not using formula parameters consecutively starting with p1 now displays the parameters properly. The p4 and p5 parameters have still not been added to the evolver. Setting directories in sstools.ini can now be done relative to the current directory. For example: .\frm\fract200.frm Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Khemyst@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 25 Dec 2000 05:33:15 EST --part1_ad.4b4faa3.27787c6b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/24/2000 12:03:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, rttyman@wwa.com writes: > You say, "And even besides that, you won't be affected either way by his > using "your" fractal images on his CD covers." > > Actors and athletes often get upset when their name is associated with something they do not approve of. It can interfere with the future value of their ability to market themselves (Unless you are a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods). This is no different. Mr Margolis may not want his art reduced to the level of "dead head" home-burned CD's which may also be of questionable legality. This may also interfere with his overall grand scheme of marketing his artwork and its perceived value either today or in the future, particularly if its reduced to market oversaturation. I don't think I'd be likely to grant permission to use my own copyrighted artwork with such a fuzzy sounding enterprise either. I'd also think that if my work were to be blatantly borrowed to then be asked for permission later, I'd be upset too. In fact, someone sent me a link to their greeting card site, with all my artwork and not so much as a copyright notice or credit. All the images were credited to them and not me, so this was even more offensive. I sent this person a license agreement and they refused to sign it, despite several follow up attempts. The agreement simply stated that they would not make money off my commercial images, and they would replace the images with ones with copyrighted watermarks in them. I have records of doing this repeatedly, so I can imagine should one day they hit the big time, and I pursue damages will be trebled. (I am lucky that no UPR's or fractal file information was provided, so this person was stuck with rather low resolution images). I now understand why some artists only publish pictures and do not provide the means for us to recreat images with fractal software, while others are more trusting and use copyrighted notices in their UPR or frm files. All I can say is we probably need to be more upfront in our web pages about license and restrictions for use, much like a video tape or DVD is for personal home private use only.... and that any other such use requires additional licensing agreement. This forum might be a place to help standardize such a format for all of us to prevent this type of intellectual property "seizure" Paul --part1_ad.4b4faa3.27787c6b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/24/2000 12:03:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rttyman@wwa.com writes:


You say, "And even besides that, you won't be affected either way by his
using "your" fractal images on his CD covers."





Actors and athletes often get upset when their name is associated with
something they do not approve of.

It can interfere with the future value of their ability to market themselves
(Unless you are a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods).  

This is no different.   

Mr Margolis may not want his art reduced to the level of "dead head"
home-burned CD's which may also be of questionable legality.  This may also
interfere with his overall grand scheme of marketing his artwork and its
perceived value either today or in the future, particularly if its reduced to
market oversaturation.

I don't think I'd be likely to grant permission to use my own copyrighted
artwork with such a fuzzy sounding enterprise either.

I'd also think that if my work were to be blatantly borrowed to then be asked
for permission later, I'd be upset too.  In fact, someone sent me a link to
their greeting card site, with all my artwork and not so much as a copyright
notice or credit.  All the images were credited to them and not me, so this
was even more offensive.  I sent this person a license agreement and they
refused to sign it, despite several follow up attempts.  The agreement simply
stated that they would not make money off my commercial images, and they
would replace the images with ones with copyrighted watermarks in them.  I
have records of doing this repeatedly, so I can imagine should one day they
hit the big time, and I pursue  damages will be trebled.
(I am lucky that no UPR's or fractal file information was provided, so this
person was stuck with rather low resolution images).  I now understand why
some artists only publish pictures and do not provide the means for us to
recreat images with fractal software, while others are more trusting and use
copyrighted notices in their UPR or frm files.

All I can say is we probably need to be more upfront in our web pages about
license and restrictions for use, much like a video tape or DVD is for
personal home private use only....
and that any other such use requires additional licensing agreement.

This forum might be a place to help standardize such a format for all of us
to prevent this type of  intellectual property "seizure"

Paul --part1_ad.4b4faa3.27787c6b_boundary-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1 patch 5 Date: 25 Dec 2000 15:42:27 -0500 >Patch 5 and its associated executable is now available at www.fractint.org. Naturally, this occurs the very day after I download patchlevel 4. ;-) > Fixed the tab and evolver screens so that not using formula parameters > consecutively starting with p1 now displays the parameters properly. And it fixes an irksome bug... (thanks) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael C. Hughes" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 25 Dec 2000 17:19:45 -0500 Bob: Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site: it made continuous attempts to breach my system through a number of different ports while I was checking the site. Unless you are protected, watch out. Mike Hughes Bob Margolis wrote: > What annoys me the most about posting fractal-art pictures or parameter > files to either these discussion groups or to the fractal-art newsgroups > is the nerve of some people who download those pictures and files that > were created by, make use of it in some way that benefits them, and then > ask for my permission to do what they have already done. > > This has happened to me several times in the past five years I've > ve been on the Internet and I'm sure it has happened to some of you > people too. > > Case in point: > > I just received this e-mail: > > Subject: Seeking Fractal Permissions > Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:01:39 -0500 > From: Jonathan Miller > To: rttyman@verio.net, rttyman@wwa.com > > Dear Mr. Margolis, > > A while back, I saved some of your fractals from > alt.binaries.pictures.fractalsto make covers for the live Grateful Dead > CD-Rs I collect. I've set up a website to offer covers from my > collection > for other folks to download. May I use a piece of your artwork? > > http://www.angelfire.com/rock/gdcdrcovers/demonstration.html is my dummy > page with thumbnails of the covers. If you scroll down to 9-02-68, > you'll > see how I used your picture "Sierpinski Starpinski" and listed your > copyright as the artist. > > The Grateful Dead allow people to trade their music as long as the discs > or > tapes aren't sold. The covers on the site are available for others to > download free, so this would be a totally non-profit use of your image. > Please let me know if I may use it! > > Many thanks, > > Jon > > Why do people such as Jonathan Miller take possession first and ask > permission to do so afterward? It never made any sense to me. It seems > as if people such as Mr. Miller have no concept of what copyright or > copyright violations mean. They continue to take and take and feel that > some of us should be honored that they cared enough about our artwork to > steal it. Then they absurdly ask, "Now that we have it may we keep it?" > > Not only is Mr. Miller taking my artwork without getting my permission > first, he's using it in a manner that may not be suitable to me. > Shouldn't it be up to me, the artist, as to how my artwork is used? What > if I don't want my artwork to appear on his covers for his Grateful Dead > CDs? Don't I have the right to express that opinion before Mr. Miller > creates his covers, especially since he's not paying for the privilege? > > I'm not the only victim of Mr. Miller's take first and ask permission > second ways. I went to his Website and found names of other fractal > artists whom I recognize from my participation in the Ultra Fractal > discussion group. > > The artists and their artwork are: > > Rear image "Rainbow Tangles" copyright 1999 by Damien M. Jones. > > Front fractal "99101603m" copyright 1999 by G.W.F. Albrecht. > > Rear image "Futterbly2" copyright 2000 by Ray Dix. > > Other artists' names that I'm not familiar with who may be subscribed > any of these three discussion groups are: > > Georg Carlson, Phillip Brown, Matthew "Schizo" Kost, Craig Blair, Stu > Haluski, Aladrin Faehan, Karen McCormack, Estate of the late, great Rick > Griffin, et al. > > If any of your names are here, you may want to contact Mr. Miller about > his using your artwork. > > I have contacted Mr. Miller and have given him an emphatic "NO" for his > use of my artwork and I have insisted that he remove the depicted CD > cover in question from his Web site. I hope he has sense enough to honor > my request. > > Bob Margolis > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 25 Dec 2000 20:35:01 -0500 Hi yall I read Jon's post. He is correct about his statements regarding the policy of the Grateful Dead regarding the use of concert tapes. They permitted audio amatures to tape each performance, within the restriction of limiting the seating to a particular section (so there would not be disturbances to other concert-goers). The strategy was very effective in promoting their music... every fan bought ALL their commercial albums... and a lot of the concert tapes were traded. So there is no question here legality (as far as the GD are concerned). Unfortunatly this attitude carries over into other realms... such as the fractal art we are referring to. Not everyone is happy with "Communism" (er... Socialism???) If it was MY art... I'd say go ahead but I need you to burn me a couple of CD's of your best concert tapes as trade... ;^) But you are right... the art IS your property. I'd suggest just putting lo-res pictures on your web sites... because by hoisting this stuff in machine readable form at high res... you are publishing it and others may not ask your permission even AFTER they steal it! BTW. I suggested to Jon (offlist) that he get his own copy af Fractint and play with it himself. He's missing a whole lot of fun... And I have chosen for MY motto the payment policy of the Stone Soup Group... "Don't want money... GOT money.... want RECOGNITION". I do acknowledge the stone soup group everytime I say or write this phrase. They DO deserve recognition! Thanks all for the neat flamewars!!! It gets too boring in these intellectual groups sometimes... H^) harry Khemyst@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/24/2000 12:03:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, > rttyman@wwa.com writes: > > > >> You say, "And even besides that, you won't be affected either way by >> his >> using "your" fractal images on his CD covers." >> > > > > > > Actors and athletes often get upset when their name is associated with > > something they do not approve of. > > It can interfere with the future value of their ability to market > themselves > (Unless you are a Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods). > > This is no different. > > Mr Margolis may not want his art reduced to the level of "dead head" > home-burned CD's which may also be of questionable legality. This may > also > interfere with his overall grand scheme of marketing his artwork and > its > perceived value either today or in the future, particularly if its > reduced to > market oversaturation. > > I don't think I'd be likely to grant permission to use my own > copyrighted > artwork with such a fuzzy sounding enterprise either. > > I'd also think that if my work were to be blatantly borrowed to then > be asked > for permission later, I'd be upset too. In fact, someone sent me a > link to > their greeting card site, with all my artwork and not so much as a > copyright > notice or credit. All the images were credited to them and not me, so > this > was even more offensive. I sent this person a license agreement and > they > refused to sign it, despite several follow up attempts. The agreement > simply > stated that they would not make money off my commercial images, and > they > would replace the images with ones with copyrighted watermarks in > them. I > have records of doing this repeatedly, so I can imagine should one day > they > hit the big time, and I pursue damages will be trebled. > (I am lucky that no UPR's or fractal file information was provided, so > this > person was stuck with rather low resolution images). I now understand > why > some artists only publish pictures and do not provide the means for us > to > recreat images with fractal software, while others are more trusting > and use > copyrighted notices in their UPR or frm files. > > All I can say is we probably need to be more upfront in our web pages > about > license and restrictions for use, much like a video tape or DVD is for > > personal home private use only.... > and that any other such use requires additional licensing agreement. > > This forum might be a place to help standardize such a format for all > of us > to prevent this type of intellectual property "seizure" > > Paul Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: (fractint) Fractint bug. Date: 26 Dec 2000 00:41:20 -0500 Severity: Moderate Data Loss: Insignificant-None Reported Against: Fractint 20.01.4 Description: Video key assignments are no longer remembered. To Reproduce: Start it up, hit del, go to some unassigned mode, hit numpad +, hit an unassigned key, select the video mode, hit del again, key is no longer bound. With a default install and fractint.cfg: Start up, del, select 1024x768x256 disk video, numpad +, alt-F7, select 1024x768x256 disk video, enter, del, alt-F7 will be unbound. Additional Notes: * This bug was most likely introduced in fixing the earlier bug that overwrite the "colors" column of fractint.cfg with all "256"s, causing strange behavior and (with passes=b and certain orbit/ special types) hangs with 16-color video modes. * The latest version as of this writing is 20.01.5, but there is no mention in 20.01.5 that the bug was fixed in that version, and I don't think anyone else has reported it, so it is probably in version 20.01.5 as well. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Khemyst@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 00:54:04 EST --part1_15.da764af.27798c7c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What kind of breaches and how does one protect one's self? Thanks In a message dated 12/25/2000 2:21:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, mhughes@fast.net writes: > Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site: it made continuous > attempts to breach my system through a number of different ports while I was > checking the site. Unless you are protected, watch out. > > --part1_15.da764af.27798c7c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What kind of breaches and how does one protect one's self?
Thanks

In a message dated 12/25/2000 2:21:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mhughes@fast.net writes:


Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site:  it made continuous
attempts to breach my system through a number of different ports while I was
checking the site.  Unless you are protected, watch out.

                                                             


 --part1_15.da764af.27798c7c_boundary-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 01:37:17 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >I'd suggest just putting lo-res pictures on your web sites...< I'd suggest not using the web at all. Get some hard copies laminated, and= sell them at an art show. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 00:38:22 -0600 Khemyst@aol.com wrote: > > What kind of breaches and how does one protect > one's self? Thanks > > mhughes@fast.net writes: > > > > Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site: > > it made continuous attempts to breach my system > > through a number of different ports while I was > > checking the site. Unless you are protected, > > watch out. > You might try the freeware from ZoneLabs, called "ZoneAlarm": http://www.zonelabs.com/ Sincerely, P.N.L. http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: comdotatdotcom@csi.com Subject: (fractint) reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 1:03 0000 Bob, I agree with all the points about intellectual property and your right to protect yours but when I first read your post my immediate reaction was amazement that you'd posted parameters to usenet and then got annoyed when they were poached, you get what you pay for here in some senses and for free broadcast of your images to people all over the world you have to expect some tradeoff in loss of control over the images. You can put as much legalese as you like in the bumf but there's nothing you can do abou some guy in Taiwan (for example) running off posters. I feel I have to leap to the defence of the guy who took the trouble to write to you asking permssion and (so to speak) enclosing a rough draft of the way in which he was to use you image. The main point here is that just because he sent you a url which had a web page on the end of it doesn't mean he has published your work. He stated that it was a dummy page and, until you distributed the url by publishing it to two mailing lists, you might have been the only other person able to access the page. I think you were very unfair to the author in your comments to the list and may even have made yourself liable to libel by publlically denouncing him as having already stolen your work. It's a brave new world out there in the net and it's attempts to hold on to the old style of information control thats causing all sorts of unworkable legistlation to pop up and fatten the wallets of lawyers and corporations. To illustrate this there is a possibility that I have taken some of your images and put them on a web page of mine accompanied by derogatory captions. I could have disttributed the url to "dead heads" via an anonymous email account so they can have a good chuckle at your expense, they are scattered across the world, and I'm not about to tell you or anyone here either the URL or who I might have sent it to. To further complicate things the page was stored on the freenet system and is thus stored on a distributed file system in untraceable encrypted form accessable only by knowing a large key value which I sent out with the invites. By all means sue me for possibly perpetrating the above conceivable event but good luck proving whether this happened or not, hope you've got deep pockets, I'm innocent until proven guilty in this country :-) Now the above paragraph may well have got peoples blood up if so, stop and calm down, you can do nothing about it, if you think that you should be able to then just sit back and think through the implications, think about what freedom means. Sorry for the inflammatory style folks but Bob started it IMHO :-) You *cannot* say that someone has stolen your images simply by downloading them from a public forum, admiring them and putting them in their scrapbook. Save such downright rudeness for those who download images then publish a cdrom or open an exhibition claiming the work as their own, that's deserving of the title, I hope you apologised to him and thanked him for showing integrity and respect by not using images when asked not to. Don't forget this is the fractint list, one which exists purely because a bunch of people gave freely of their work at a time when others were cashing in and overcharging for what were often shoddy works. Cheers, Robin. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael C. Hughes" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 20:35:33 -0500 --------------2DC87A3E5A4A4A6524029D51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Khemyst: I'm not an expert in this area, but most PC's have the software equivalent of thousands of "Ports" open when they are connected to the net. Most viruses and worms are set to attack specific ports once they are activated. In this case, the ports being attacked are not ones specific to any viruses, but just ports that are open and through which someone can gain entrance into your system, usually just for a look around. Go to zonelabs.com for the basic firewall system (it's free, even; their higher level system is $29.95). Also get Norton Systemworks. Among other things it comes with a firewall which doesn't stop everything from getting in, but will warn you when any site, including Symantek's, is trying to take any information out of your system via your net connection. Even the two of these don't offer perfect protection, but if you have the Zone Labs system you will be in for a big surprise when you find out how many sites try to zing something into your system even before the cookies start coming at you. (Also, see a site, anonymizer.com, which will shock you if you are not already aware of just how vulnerable you are.) Mike Hughes Khemyst@aol.com wrote: > What kind of breaches and how does one protect one's self? > Thanks > > In a message dated 12/25/2000 2:21:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, > mhughes@fast.net writes: > > > >> Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site: it made continuous >> attempts to breach my system through a number of different ports >> while I was >> checking the site. Unless you are protected, watch out. >> >> > > > --------------2DC87A3E5A4A4A6524029D51 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Khemyst:

     I'm not an expert in this area, but most PC's have the software equivalent of thousands of "Ports" open when they are connected to the net.  Most viruses and worms are set to attack specific ports once they are activated.  In this case, the ports being attacked are not ones specific to any viruses, but just ports that are open and through which someone can gain entrance into your system, usually just for a look around.  Go to zonelabs.com for the basic firewall system (it's free, even; their higher level system is $29.95).  Also get Norton Systemworks.  Among other things it comes with a firewall which doesn't stop everything from getting in, but will warn you when any site, including Symantek's, is trying to take any information out of your system via your net connection.  Even the two of these don't offer perfect protection, but if you have the Zone Labs system you will be in for a big surprise when you find out how many sites try to zing something into your system even before the cookies start coming at you.
     (Also, see a site, anonymizer.com, which will shock you if you are not already aware of just how vulnerable you are.)

                                                               Mike Hughes
 

Khemyst@aol.com wrote:

What kind of breaches and how does one protect one's self?
Thanks

In a message dated 12/25/2000 2:21:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mhughes@fast.net writes:
 
 

Another warning vis-a-vis Mr. Miller's site:  it made continuous
attempts to breach my system through a number of different ports while I was
checking the site.  Unless you are protected, watch out.
 
 

 
--------------2DC87A3E5A4A4A6524029D51-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 21:18:43 -0600 harry wrote: > > But you are right... the art IS your property. I'd suggest just putting > lo-res pictures on > your web sites... because by hoisting this stuff in machine readable > form at high res... > you are publishing it and others may not ask your permission even AFTER > they steal it! Better yet, I've decided that from now I put the © symbol, the current year, and my name atop each design I upload to the fractal-picture newsgroups, where a lot of fractal art is pilfered by unscrupulous persons for their personal or financial gain, to the detriment of the original artist. The copyright noticed atop the design is on a duplicate one meant for newsgroup viewing. The original design, meant for art shows and the like, will not have this interfering notice. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Priest" Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 20:02:30 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C06F76.C74229C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This Fractal copyright business has always been a matter of interest to = me. What is copyrighted: the image; the par; the frm? What happens = if, using one of the common formulae, I come up with an image that is = substantially similar to a copyrighted image? I admit this is pretty = unlikely; on the other hand, is there any form of the ubiquitous = Mandelbrot set that would be copyrightable; can there be a copyright for = the image of the Mandelbrot set; who would own it -- Benoit Mandelbrot. To put all this another way, it seems clear that Ansel Adams has a = copyright on his photographs. But if I go to the same location, using = the same kind of camera and try to duplicate one of his photographs, do = I violate his copyright? George Priest geopriest@raincity.com ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C06F76.C74229C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This Fractal copyright business has = always been a=20 matter of interest to me.  What is copyrighted:  the image; = the par;=20 the frm?  What happens if, using one of the common formulae, I come = up with=20 an image that is substantially similar to a copyrighted = image?  I=20 admit this is pretty unlikely; on the other hand, is there any form of = the=20 ubiquitous Mandelbrot set that would be copyrightable; can there be = a copyright for the image of the Mandelbrot set; who would own it = -- Benoit=20 Mandelbrot.
 
To put all this another way, it seems = clear that=20 Ansel Adams has a copyright on his photographs.  But if I go to the = same=20 location, using the same kind of camera and try to duplicate one of his=20 photographs, do I violate his copyright?
 
George Priest
geopriest@raincity.com<= /DIV>
 
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C06F76.C74229C0-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 26 Dec 2000 22:22:41 -0600 Robin (comdotatdotcom@csi.com) wrote: > > I think you were very > unfair to the author in your comments to the list and may even > have made yourself liable to libel by publlically denouncing him > as > having already stolen your work. Wouldn't you agree that taking someone's property without permission, then using that property to benefit his personal or financial gain without recompense in any manner to the original property owner constitutes theft? It doesn't matter if he later told me of his misdeed, theft is theft. He gained by using my artwork and that of other artists to create pretty (?) covers for his CD cases. He could have designed his own covers, couldn't he? Am I supposed to be delighted that the recompense he did offer me was in the form of saying, "Bob, I like liked your artwork so much that I've decided to use it as a cover for one of my CDs. You should be happy that I honor you in this manner."? Am I supposed to trust the man when he says he's making covers for his personal collection of CDs? What if he's making covers for other people and collecting money in return? Do you expect him to be straightforward about it with me? If he took without permission in the first place, he, IMHO, cannot be trusted to be honest with how he is using the artwork now. If this ever happens to you in the future, just remember that you condoned those acts when they happened to someone else, and you won't have reason to cry "foul" when you are the victim. > > You *cannot* say that someone has stolen your images simply > by downloading them from a public forum, admiring them and > putting them in > their scrapbook. You are correct in that respect, only if Mr. Miller kept the download private.. But he did not do so. He created a Web site, albeit a supposed "dummy" one, where he displayed fractal artwork of mine and other people's as CD covers, then he announced his deed to me and others, asking permission only after the fact. The Web site was open to all to see. There was no lockout device that prevented anybody from entering the site and viewing the CD covers. That, Robin, is not making private use of what he downloaded, and that, sir, is where copyright infringement begins. Please read the laws concerning copyrights pertaining to artwork. Those laws can be read over the Internet. I am well versed in them and you should be too, if you want to engage in discourse with me about Mr. Miller's actions. > Save such downright rudeness I'm being rude? Robin, Robin. Have you been drinking a little too much of the eggnog this season? ;-) > for those > who download images then publish a cdrom or open an exhibition > claiming the work as their own, that's deserving of the title, I > hope you apologised to him and thanked him for showing > integrity and respect by not using images when asked not to. > Gee, Robin, I hope you never get held up by a stickup guy. You're liable to apologize to him for allowing yourself to become his target. "I'm sorry," Robin tells the mugger. "Thank you for choosing me to rob. I am deeply honored. Now go spend my hard-earned money and enjoy yourself." Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 22:42:45 -0600 > George Priest wrote: > > This Fractal copyright business has always been a matter of interest > to me. What is copyrighted: the image; the par; the frm? Under the laws of copyright, formulas cannot be copyrighted. A parameter file and its resulting image are copyrighted since it is intellectual property. > What > happens if, using one of the common formulae, I come up with an image > that is substantially similar to a copyrighted image? I admit this is > pretty unlikely; on the other hand, is there any form of the > ubiquitous Mandelbrot set that would be copyrightable; can there be > a copyright for the image of the Mandelbrot set; who would own it -- > Benoit Mandelbrot. The Mandelbrot set is an image derived from the formula and cannot be copyrighted, just as a sine curve that is derived from a formula cannot be copyrighted. What we're talking about here in regards to images is artwork or designs created from using formulas. The artwork is a manipulation in a pictorial fashion, and, hence, intellectual property. > > To put all this another way, it seems clear that Ansel Adams has a > copyright on his photographs. But if I go to the same location, using > the same kind of camera and try to duplicate one of his photographs, > do I violate his copyright? Now you won't violate the copyright, because you would not be able to make an *exact* duplicate of what he did. You would be taking your picture at a different time and the scene would surely have changed from when he took his picture. Let's rephrase your question. Hypothetically, if you and Ansel Adams each had the same model camera and stood next to each other taking pictures of the same scenery, would each person's picture be copyrighted? The answer is yes. It still won't be the same picture, however, because the two of you are not standing in the *same* place at the same time. There would be a small difference in how each picture looked. I won't get into discussion here as to whether Adams would allow you to stand next to him as he goes about his job. :-) Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 00:21:44 -0500 George Priest wrote: > To put all this another way, it seems clear that Ansel Adams has a > copyright on his photographs. But if I go to the same location, using > the same kind of camera and try to duplicate one of his photographs, > do I violate his copyright? > > Absolutely not !!! > > H^) harry (good luck BTW....) > > > > George Priestgeopriest@raincity.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: (fractint) Re: Request for Black and White Fractals Date: 26 Dec 2000 23:29:28 -0600 Paul N. Lee wrote: > > ....a special request..... > __________________________________________________________________ > Sandy Matrai wrote: > > > > What I am really seeking is Black and White imagery of > > fractals for my baby. From those that replied to the discussion lists and/or privately, I forwarded the information on to Sandy. And received an email back just a matter of minutes ago. Sandy sent thanks for jumping to to aid in the search, also appreciated the time and effort in helping. And says, "I will be putting all the sites refered to to good use." My thanks to those that responded to the request. Sincerely, P.N.L. http://www.fractalus.com/cgi-bin/theway?ring=fractals&id=43&go Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy Roth Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 26 Dec 2000 21:41:52 -0800 Hi Bob You are entirely right in your interpretation of copyright law and I understand why you are angry after your experiences in the last year. But there is a whole world out there of music taping going on, largely with the approval of the musicians concerned. It started with the Grateful Dead allowing large scale taping and trading of their music, as long as no money traded hands. Now there is a whole movement of small and medium sized bands (in popularity) and music festivals where people openly tape and even hook into the sounboard, and with digital taping these can be copied and put on CD without loss of clarity. I have been following a small band when I am on vacation and people make tape trees to trade their CD's and spread the word. There are a couple of these floating around with CD covers with photos I have taken at festivals and posted to the e-mail lists concerned. I took a picture of a couple where a man proposed to a woman at a music festival in Florida- they were standing in the crowd in a ray of sunlight- and someone put a copy of that pic on a CD cover for that festival. So I think that is the world that the guy who used your fractal is operating in, and he probably didn't realize you would mind- which doesn't mean you are wrong about copyright law or not entitled to your feelings. Now he knows. Most people involved with this are very, very ethical but in an alternative way. I'm sure he is not making money on the CD's. The Grateful Dead organisation and lawyers have been very aggressive in pursuing people who used thier music or images for money. (In fact the remaining members have had a major rift about whether to let the music in the "vault" go out on the internet for free.) Fractals ARE different from music though (and I'm not talking legally) in that someone could claim your fractal as his own, while most of the music is instantly recognizable. Kathy Bob Margolis wrote: > > Robin (comdotatdotcom@csi.com) wrote: > > > > I think you were very > > unfair to the author in your comments to the list and may even > > have made yourself liable to libel by publlically denouncing him > > as > > having already stolen your work. > > Wouldn't you agree that taking someone's property without permission, > then using that property to benefit his personal or financial gain > without recompense in any manner to the original property owner > constitutes theft? It doesn't matter if he later told me of his misdeed, > theft is theft. He gained by using my artwork and that of other artists > to create pretty (?) covers for his CD cases. He could have designed his > own covers, couldn't he? > > Am I supposed to be delighted that the recompense he did offer me was in > the form of saying, "Bob, I like liked your artwork so much that I've > decided to use it as a cover for one of my CDs. You should be happy that > I honor you in this manner."? > > Am I supposed to trust the man when he says he's making covers for his > personal collection of CDs? What if he's making covers for other people > and collecting money in return? Do you expect him to be straightforward > about it with me? If he took without permission in the first place, he, > IMHO, cannot be trusted to be honest with how he is using the artwork > now. > > If this ever happens to you in the future, just remember that you > condoned those acts when they happened to someone else, and you won't > have reason to cry "foul" when you are the victim. > > > > > You *cannot* say that someone has stolen your images simply > > by downloading them from a public forum, admiring them and > > putting them in > > their scrapbook. > > You are correct in that respect, only if Mr. Miller kept the download > private.. But he did not do so. He created a Web site, albeit a supposed > "dummy" one, where he displayed fractal artwork of mine and other > people's as CD covers, then he announced his deed to me and others, > asking permission only after the fact. The Web site was open to all to > see. There was no lockout device that prevented anybody from entering > the site and viewing the CD covers. That, Robin, is not making private > use of what he downloaded, and that, sir, is where copyright > infringement begins. Please read the laws concerning copyrights > pertaining to artwork. Those laws can be read over the Internet. I am > well versed in them and you should be too, if you want to engage in > discourse with me about Mr. Miller's actions. > > > Save such downright rudeness > > I'm being rude? Robin, Robin. Have you been drinking a little too much > of the eggnog this season? ;-) > > > for those > > who download images then publish a cdrom or open an exhibition > > claiming the work as their own, that's deserving of the title, I > > hope you apologised to him and thanked him for showing > > integrity and respect by not using images when asked not to. > > > > Gee, Robin, I hope you never get held up by a stickup guy. You're liable > to apologize to him for allowing yourself to become his target. "I'm > sorry," Robin tells the mugger. "Thank you for choosing me to rob. I am > deeply honored. Now go spend my hard-earned money and enjoy yourself." > > Bob > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kevdog" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 26 Dec 2000 22:47:45 -0800 > To put all this another way, it seems clear that Ansel Adams has a > copyright on his photographs. But if I go to the same location, using > the same kind of camera and try to duplicate one of his photographs, > do I violate his copyright? Now you won't violate the copyright, because you would not be able to make an *exact* duplicate of what he did. You would be taking your picture at a different time and the scene would surely have changed from when he took his picture. Let's rephrase your question. Hypothetically, if you and Ansel Adams each had the same model camera and stood next to each other taking pictures of the same scenery, would each person's picture be copyrighted? The answer is yes. It still won't be the same picture, however, because the two of you are not standing in the *same* place at the same time. There would be a small difference in how each picture looked. I won't get into discussion here as to whether Adams would allow you to stand next to him as he goes about his job.=20 So say he downloads your parameter file and shifts the viewport left by = .000000001. That is much the same as following Mr. Adams out to a spot = and taking pictures 6 inches to his side, which you don't seem to mind. = So what then? :) All I'm saying is that there are going to be lots and lots of ways to = get around this if he so wishes. You should stop worrying about all of = this. I personally am fascinated by the theory behind fractals, but the = majority of people enjoy them simply for their aesthetic beauty. That = man was not using anything for his personal gain - if he was going to = lie to you about that, why would he email you in the first place? It's = a *very* rare percentage of the population that would have had the = decency to even send you an email telling you of their intended = non-profit use of your fractals.. and I think it's a very sad thing when = you can't bring yourself to trust even that small fraction.=20 Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 01:51:10 -0600 Kevdog wrote: > > So say he downloads your parameter file and shifts the viewport left by .000000001. That is much the same as following Mr. Adams out to a spot and taking pictures 6 inches to his side, which you don't seem to mind. > So what then? :) You don't seem to understand anything about copyrights. The parameter file is copyrighted, as I explained earlier. If you physically change that parameter file, you are violating copyright law. It is not the same as taking a picture six inches away from Adams. He's taking his picture, you're taking yours. They are separate events and separate copyrights. If you took Adams' picture and cropped it just a wee bit, you would be violating his copyright because you altered his picture. That picture suddenly does not become yours because you altered it by the cropping. > All I'm saying is that there are going to be lots and lots of ways to get around this if he so wishes. You should stop worrying about all of this. Instead of standing up for the rights of the violators, you should be standing up for the rights of the abused. There are many great fractal artists who have refused to post their pictures anymore on the Internet because of copyright abuse. It's our loss when we can no longer view the artwork of such talented people. If I don't stop worrying about copyright abuse, then who will? Someone has to be a watchdog otherwise everything becomes free for the taking and no one will be able to claim ownership of any piece of art or music they create. It seems that in your viewpoint, works of art and music belong to the people and not to the individuals who make them. No, there are not lots of ways to get around the copyright issue. Read the laws, as I've instructed others to do. After you read it thoroughly, then come back and argue your point. Don't argue beforehand from the point of ignorance. > That man was not using anything for his personal gain He made covers for his CDs by using the artwork of other people. He did not create his own artwork and then make covers using them. Using other people's artwork did become his personal gain. Why can't you understand that? > - if he was going to lie to you about that, why would he email you in the first place? Because, as someone else contributed to this thread, Mr. Miller apparently was ignorant about copyright law, and did not realize that he had to get permission first before using my artwork to create covers for his CDs. Had he just downloaded my artwork for viewing on his computer screen, there's no violation of any laws. But, he downloaded the artwork apparently with another purpose in mind other than viewing them periodically for his own enjoyment. Had he said nothing, then obviously I would not have known about. But he did write to me about it to see if I would object to his using my artwork. I did object and so he removed it from his Web site. Whether he thought I would or wouldn't object doesn't matter. He may have thought he would feel better if he had gotten an okay from me rather then acting clandestine about it. I can't speak for him; I'm not inside his brain thoughts. But neither should others be sticking up for his actions because they really don't know his intent. They can only *assume* what his purpose is, and remember what Judge Wapner said about that word *assume*. It's meaningless in a court of law. > It's a *very* rare percentage of the population that would have > had the decency to even send you an email telling you of their > intended non-profit use of your fractals.. and I think it's a > very sad thing when you can't bring yourself to trust even that > small fraction. This has happened to me (and other people) more times than you can imagine. I have had my artwork used for commercial purposes without my consent. The notion out there by copyright violators is "try and sue me, it'll be more trouble for you than you think it's worth." No, I'm not a corporation with deep pockets that can go after such violators and haul them into court. But when you buy products from that corporation, part of the retail price you pay goes toward paying for the retaining of the corporation's attorneys. I'm just a little guy, who has to sit back and watch this abuse of my talent or skills, while people such as you seem to condemn me for being protective of what's mine. When any of your rights are ever taken away in the future, don't come crying to me for support, when you were unwilling to give me yours when my right to control my property was being abused. In the end, I suppose the only thing I can do to avoid this problem in the future is to not post any parameter files to this discussion group or the artwork resulting from it to the newsgroups. But, then I suppose someone will jump all over me for not wanting to share what I create. It's a no-win situation. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fernando Bresslau" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint bug. Date: 27 Dec 2000 10:48:37 -0200 I have to say that I noticed it too, but didn´t think it was a bug, thought the problem was that part sitting in front of the computer ...(grin) I just checked it with 20.01.5, and the problem persists. That´s it. Fernando Bresslau _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: davides Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah Humbug (For Bob) Date: 27 Dec 2000 10:02:21 -0500 At 01:51 AM 12/27/2000 -0600, you wrote: (snips) >The parameter >file is copyrighted, as I explained earlier. If you physically change >that parameter file, you are violating copyright law.=20 (big snippage) Bob - please discuss, in your opinion. the above a bit more extensively. For example: A: Mr. X creates a very nice piece of art from x.frm and titles it "Z.par I see this image, having the .frm and having loaded the .par. I think I would like to change it a wee bit, say by changing x from .5 to 1.75 and changing Y from .5 to .025. I also change the zoom a bit from say .025 to .00375 centered. This will result in a significant change to the image. I also want to change the colors some and do so using my color map ds3. The changes I have made render the image completely different and more to my liking, and is now part of my private collection. Yet, according to the above, I have violated copyright law. B: Mr. X creates a very nice piece of art from x.frm and titles it "Z.par I have not seen this particular par although I do have the .frm. Serendipitously I decide to use x.frm for a fractal, and set x=3D1.75, Y=3D.025, and use my color map ds3. I have zoomed .00375 center. This brings me to the same fractal as in "A".=20 Oh yes, in both cases the area was the same - say a julia out of elephant valley. Would you please discuss the above?=20 Best Regards, David davides@pipeline.com http://www.mbfractals.com/usergal/davides.html http://home.pipeline.com/~davides ^ ^ 0=BF0 _ New Windows Message: This will end your Windows session. Do you want to play another game? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 09:35:28 -0600 Bob Margolis wrote: > Hypothetically, if you and Ansel Adams each had the same model camera > and stood next to each other taking pictures of the same scenery, would > each person's picture be copyrighted? The answer is yes. It still won't > be the same picture, however, because the two of you are not standing > in the *same* place at the same time. Even if you moved your camera into the same position the instant Adams finished his picture, it wouldn't matter. The art of a photographer is the work done to make and process the picture. The 'effort' made by the artist is as much a part of the (copyrightable) art as the final product itself. You could likely make darn near the same picture Adams made, but only by doing the same work. With fractal artists, the work done to find the image, select a palette, tweak the parameters and do any post processing is (to my mind) what is being protected. If you copy those parameters, you're stealing. If you stumble on the same set up, you've done the work yourself and are not. *That* said, Bob, I think you're being kinda Grinchlike about this. ;-\ I no longer have your original message, but the impression I got was that this guy wasn't doing this for person gain (making any copyright violation questionable) and the web *page* (not site) he set up sounded like a free standing page with no links to it (yet). Only access was by giving you the URL presumably for the exact purpose he stated: so you could see and (hopefully) approve. I may be wrong about all that, but I like to ascribe the best motives to my fellow man, especially at this time of year. (And generally, Dead Heads are pretty decent people.) You had an opportunity to handle this more kindly, and your attitude (at this time of year) grieves me. Shame on you. Just my 1/50th of a buck's worth....YMMV -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 09:44:56 -0600 comdotatdotcom@csi.com wrote: > Don't forget this is the fractint list, one which exists > purely because a bunch of people gave freely of their work at > a time when others were cashing in and overcharging for > what were often shoddy works. Hear! Hear!! Maybe some kind soul should generate some nice *free* fractals to send to the Dead Head to use on his CDs, and we can let Bob go the way .ARC files went (and .GIF files are soon to go). -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 09:50:30 -0600 Bob Margolis wrote: > Wouldn't you agree that taking someone's property without permission, > then using that property to benefit his personal or financial gain > without recompense in any manner to the original property owner > constitutes theft? Yes, of course. What you can't seem to grasp is that that doesn't seem to be what happened here. And if no personal gain is involved, it's questionable whether there's any copyright violation at all. > The Web site was open to all to see. If there were no links to it, then *only* people who had the URL can get to it. I do this frequently on my own website: create a page for a small audience (sometimes just one person). No robot or search engine in the world can stumble on the page. If someone posts an artist's work on their personal website, and no financial gain is involved, it may well fall under fair use rules so long as the artist is credited (which appears to be the case here). -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 12:10:48 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >I put the =A9 symbol, the current year, and my name atop each design< Actually, you could put them IN the design. Perhaps you could even make them literally part of the fractal. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 12:15:55 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >But if I go to the same location, using the same kind of camera and try = to duplicate one of his photographs, do I violate his copyright?< =46rom what I've read, this person wasn't merely "trying to duplicate" Bo= b's fractals. He was actually copying the image. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 12:32:47 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >and the web *page* (not site) he set up sounded like a free standing page with no links to it (yet).< Actually, a search engine will eventually stumble upon it through a rando= m search of IP numbers. Unless the page has a Robot Exclusion Header, the search engine will enter the page into its database. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 12:03:49 -0600 "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: >> and the web *page* (not site) he set up sounded like a free >> standing page with no links to it (yet). > > Actually, a search engine will eventually stumble upon it through a > random search of IP numbers. Unless the page has a Robot Exclusion > Header, the search engine will enter the page into its database. Nope. Individual *pages* don't have their own IP numbers; only the server for a site does. The *pages* are referenced by *text* strings sent to the http server once a connection is established. There is NO WAY for any robot or search engine to find a page EXCEPT the index.html (or equiv) on the *root* of a DNS entity UNLESS there exists somewhere a link to that page. For instance, my root page at www.Sonnack.com could be discovered by making an http request to the IP which *can* be discovered by doing the equivalent of "war dialing". But once there, further pages can only be discovered by following links. I have a number of "free standing" pages for friends, family and others. I'll even give you a clue: they're at http://www.Sonnack.com/Special/ But good luck figuring out the pages! -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Drunken Piper" Subject: (fractint) About copyrights Date: 27 Dec 2000 13:52:57 -0500 I entirely agree with Bob, sorry guys, he is right for sticking to principles. Case in point for myself: I am releasing a screen saver "for profit" and had a consultant create part of my initial code. Oops I found out *much* later (he's long gone now) that he used a chunk of fractint source code line-for-line for underlying fractal generation. Any of you old fractinters would have recognized it in a flash. Yanked that outta there. Y'all are real clear in the source code ... not for commercial use. Thanks for sharing Bob -- I hear yah loud and clear flame on jonnie :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 15:29:01 -0500 I could not agree more! H^) harry (likes fractals and the Dead !) Programmer Dude wrote: > Bob Margolis wrote: > > > Hypothetically, if you and Ansel Adams each had the same model camera > > and stood next to each other taking pictures of the same scenery, would > > each person's picture be copyrighted? The answer is yes. It still won't > > be the same picture, however, because the two of you are not standing > > in the *same* place at the same time. > > Even if you moved your camera into the same position the instant Adams > finished his picture, it wouldn't matter. The art of a photographer is > the work done to make and process the picture. The 'effort' made by the > artist is as much a part of the (copyrightable) art as the final product > itself. You could likely make darn near the same picture Adams made, > but only by doing the same work. > > With fractal artists, the work done to find the image, select a palette, > tweak the parameters and do any post processing is (to my mind) what is > being protected. If you copy those parameters, you're stealing. If you > stumble on the same set up, you've done the work yourself and are not. > > *That* said, Bob, I think you're being kinda Grinchlike about this. ;-\ > > I no longer have your original message, but the impression I got was that > this guy wasn't doing this for person gain (making any copyright violation > questionable) and the web *page* (not site) he set up sounded like a free > standing page with no links to it (yet). Only access was by giving you > the URL presumably for the exact purpose he stated: so you could see and > (hopefully) approve. I may be wrong about all that, but I like to ascribe > the best motives to my fellow man, especially at this time of year. (And > generally, Dead Heads are pretty decent people.) > > You had an opportunity to handle this more kindly, and your attitude (at > this time of year) grieves me. Shame on you. > > Just my 1/50th of a buck's worth....YMMV > > -- > |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | > |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | > |_____________________________________________|_______________________| > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwydion" Subject: (fractint) Re:humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 23:40:29 -0000 I think that bob just likes to cause ripples ,he played the same kind of games on the Ultrafrac list. Gwydion. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo M. Forno" Subject: RE: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1 patch 5 Date: 27 Dec 2000 20:43:16 -0300 Please, which is the version of fractint that still uses integer arithmetic and which not? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 11:16 PM > Patch 5 and its associated executable is now available at www.fractint.org. > > What's new: > > Updated the disk video help docs. The limit of disk video has been > 32767x32767 since version 20.0. > > Fixed the tab and evolver screens so that not using formula parameters > consecutively starting with p1 now displays the parameters properly. > The p4 and p5 parameters have still not been added to the evolver. > > Setting directories in sstools.ini can now be done relative to the > current directory. For example: .\frm\fract200.frm > > Jonathan > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 20:22:12 -0500 Bob, > Please read the laws concerning copyrights > pertaining to artwork. Those laws can be read over the Internet. I am > well versed in them Could you tell us which laws (specifically) you are referring to, being well versed in them and all. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 20:22:12 -0500 Bob, > Please read the laws concerning copyrights > pertaining to artwork. Those laws can be read over the Internet. I am > well versed in them Could you tell us which laws (specifically) you are referring to, being well versed in them and all. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah Humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 18:59:16 -0800 Bob is entitled to control use of his images as he sees fit. Others are likewise entitled to permit others to use their images for non-profit applications if they wish, or not. I have always been flattered when folks have wanted to use my images for academic, artistic, or other non-profit purposes, but that's just me. (I have always considered exposure of my work to new audiences to be a positive.) Fifteen messages (on the Fractint list) in one day, all debating Bob's right to control use of his work, or admonishing him as to how he should approach such issues? Is this what we're reduced to as we wait for FA2K to become FA2K+1? Save us, Damien! ;-) Aloha, Bud Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 27 Dec 2000 21:54:23 -0600 Mike Traynor wrote: > > > Could you tell us which laws (specifically) you are referring to, being well > versed in them and all. > Instead of having you read entire legalese in the U.S. Code pertaining to copyrights of art and music, which is online at Cornell University's Web site, I'll post this snippet here from The Copyright Act of 1976: By definition, digital transmission involves multiple acts of reproduction and distribution not covered by Section 110(2). Therefore, digital transmissions of copyrighted materials would result in an infringement unless the accompanying acts of reproduction and distribution were otherwise authorized." [2, p. 83] Posting to a Web site constitutes a public performance or display or both as well as reproduction and distribution. Therefore, the unauthorized posting of information to a Web site is an infringement on the copyright owner’s rights. Notice the words, "the unauthorized posting of information to a Web site is an infringement on the copyright owner’s rights." That's what Mr. Miller did--posted my artwork to his Web site without authorization--hence, he infringed on my copyright ownership. Even if you argue that his Web site is private, which cannot be if he's on a public server, he still "reproduced" my artwork at his Web site with the purpose of distributing it by way of making CD covers containing my creation. The entire document from which the above portion was clipped is titled, "Copyright Law and Recent Changes: An Overview" and is at http://www.umass.edu/acco/mrs/copyright.html . Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 27 Dec 2000 21:55:15 -0600 What is protected by copyright law? Your artwork is your intellectual property, and it is protected by copyright law. Your art (graphics, photos, music, etc.) becomes protected by copyright when you take it from an idea or concept and make it into something fixed and tangible. The basic requirements that a work of art must meet to qualify for copyright protection are: It must be original. The artwork must be original, not copied from anything else. It must be creative. The artwork must show at least a minimum amount of creativity. It must be fixed in a tangible medium. The artwork must be fixed in one of these tangible mediums—in its digital state as 1s and 0s; paintings and drawings; original music; your original artworks scanned into your computer; artwork you have created using bit-mapped or vector drawing, painting, or photo-manipulation programs or any combination of these digital media; buttons and graphics, cartoons, illustrations, and original writing that you have created for your Web site and that reside on your Web site. The list is extensive, though not complete. If you can see or touch your artwork, with or without the aid of a machine or device, no matter what its medium, it qualifies as being fixed in a tangible medium of expression. And you own it and the copyrights to it. Unless it's been pre-empted by the Frumious Bandersnatch; see the section further on for due warning! And that goes for the other guy's work, too. Buttons and graphics, cartoons, illustrations, and original writing found on other people's Web sites—as well as the myriad other fixed, tangible creations out there in the "real" world—it's all owned and copyrighted by someone. Always assume these things are copyrighted by their creators. They are not just there for the taking. If you wouldn't take it from a gallery without paying for it, you shouldn't take it from a Web site. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re:humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 21:58:33 -0600 gwydion wrote: > > I think that bob just likes to cause ripples ,he played the same kind of > games on > the Ultrafrac list. I assure you that copyright infringement is not a "game." I am not playing games here. I am very serious about this topic and you should be the same too, if you want to protect yourself from similar deeds. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: Bah humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 22:01:12 -0600 Mark Christenson wrote: > > Save us, Damien! ;-) > Um, it's not Damien for this discussion group. It's the honorable and beloved Tim Wegner. :-) Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Bah Humbug (For Bob) Date: 27 Dec 2000 22:08:51 -0600 davides wrote: > > > Bob - please discuss, in your opinion. the above a bit more extensively. > For example: > Since this is a discussion group about FractInt and fractal art created with FractInt, I think it's best not to go into a lengthy discourse here about copyright law and the examples you posed. I've sent some copyright law tidbits in a couple of other postings that should suffice as to what copyright law protects. I love a good argument, but even I feel that this discussion is getting out of hand, even though I started it, and must be boring to tears the majority of those who subscribe to this forum. I'm now going to do some designs with FractInt and make sure they all contain the © symbol. :-) Cheers, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) U.S. Code pertaining to copyrights is at Date: 27 Dec 2000 22:12:39 -0600 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah Humbug (For Bob) Date: 27 Dec 2000 23:30:48 -0500 >Would you please discuss the above? Certainly. I think this thread is quite appropriately named -- the lot of you who are getting so concerned about copyright law are acting an awful lot like Ebeneezer Scrooge. I think the Grateful Dead have a much more enlightened approach to things... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Bah humbug Date: 27 Dec 2000 23:31:27 -0500 Er....OK "Save us Honorable and Beloved Tim..." ??? ;^) H^) harry Bob Margolis wrote: > Mark Christenson wrote: > > > > > Save us, Damien! ;-) > > > > Um, it's not Damien for this discussion group. It's the honorable and > beloved Tim Wegner. :-) > > Bob > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerome schatten Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 27 Dec 2000 21:47:21 -0800 Bob Margolis wrote: > > What is protected by copyright law? > > Your artwork is your intellectual property, and it is protected by > copyright law. > > Your art (graphics, photos, music, etc.) becomes protected by > copyright when you take it from an idea or concept and make it into > something fixed and tangible. The basic requirements that a work of art > must meet to qualify for copyright protection are: > > It must be original. The artwork must be original, not copied > from anything else. > It must be creative. The artwork must show at least a minimum > amount of creativity. > Err... and just who is the arbiter of creativity? If I don't think your work creative, can I use it, reproduce it, sell it? No? Then how to test it for creativity? Simple Jerome Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 27 Dec 2000 23:57:36 -0600 jerome schatten wrote: > > > Err... and just who is the arbiter of creativity? If I don't think your > work > creative, can I use it, reproduce it, sell it? No? Then how to test it > for > creativity? > > Simple Jerome > Dear Simple; It's a good thing you don't work in the copyright office. With your standards, it'll be difficult for one to get a copyright. :-) Notice the words "minimum amount of creativity." It has to show *some* creativeness. Let's not get philosophical here. If you want to argue about the copyright law and it's legal interpretations, this is not the forum to do so, and I'm not about to bore others here nit-picking every sentence of the Copyright Law as you seek to complicate matters. Consult an attorney dealing in copyright law with your questions. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Childress Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah Humbug (For Bob) Date: 27 Dec 2000 22:24:23 -0800 At 08:30 PM 12/27/00, you wrote: >>Would you please discuss the above? > >Certainly. I think this thread is quite appropriately named -- the lot of >you who are getting so concerned about copyright law are acting an awful >lot like Ebeneezer Scrooge. I think the Grateful Dead have a much more >enlightened approach to things... But then, you've publicly promoted theft of programs like UltraFractal, so I wouldn't expect you to respect Bob's position. While I've disagreed with Bob on some points about posting parameters, I fully agree with his position regarding the use of his images. Ken... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jerome schatten Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 27 Dec 2000 22:33:04 -0800 Bob Margolis wrote: > > jerome schatten wrote: > > > > > > > Err... and just who is the arbiter of creativity? If I don't think your > > work > > creative, can I use it, reproduce it, sell it? No? Then how to test it > > for > > creativity? > > > > Simple Jerome > > > > Dear Simple; > > It's a good thing you don't work in the copyright office. With your > standards, it'll be difficult for one to get a copyright. > :-) > > Notice the words "minimum amount of creativity." It has to show *some* > creativeness. Let's not get philosophical here. If you want to argue > about the copyright law and it's legal interpretations, this is not the > forum to do so, and I'm not about to bore others here nit-picking every > sentence of the Copyright Law as you seek to complicate matters. Consult > an attorney dealing in copyright law with your questions. > > Bob > Yeah... and just what is the 'minimum' standard? Law, my man, is philosophy carved in stone. I'm sorry you think this topic boring. I can't imagine that someone wrote copywrite law with the phrase 'minimum amount of creativity' embedded in it. But who knows... I'm just a dairy farmer. Simple Jerome Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: davides Subject: Re: (fractint) Bah Humbug (For Bob) Date: 28 Dec 2000 10:23:47 -0500 At 11:30 PM 12/27/2000 -0500, you wrote: >>Would you please discuss the above? > >Certainly. I think this thread is quite appropriately named -- the lot of= =20 >you who are getting so concerned about copyright law are acting an awful= lot=20 >like Ebeneezer Scrooge. I think the Grateful Dead have a much more=20 >enlightened approach to things... I wasn't aware you were named Bob. davides@pipeline.com http://www.mbfractals.com/usergal/davides.html http://home.pipeline.com/~davides ^ ^ 0=BF0 _ New Windows Message: Press any key except... no, No, NO, NOT THAT ONE! Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 28 Dec 2000 10:34:05 EST I've been reading a lot on the list lately about the always- interesting topic of copyright infringement. Perhaps I should tell of my experience in this area. About five years ago I had the idea of designing and marketing a set of twelve birthday cards with an Astrological theme. To create some rough designs I scanned some published art of others and combined it with art of my own creation. I originally had not intended on using the borrowed art, but some of the designs were so successful that I decided to send samples of my designs to those whose art I had borrowed, asking for permission to use their art, and offering of course a percentage of any profits. I sent out twelve samples to twelve different artists. Of these twelve artists, only nine replied. Of these nine, one approved strongly, four gave simple permission, three tersely denied permission, and one was so outraged that I had dared to violate her art that she gave a personal phone call not only to deny permission, but to vigorously scold me for my infringement. The crux of her argument was that I had not first consulted her before changing and using her art. Having been subjected to such an attack, I assumed that the artist had been taken advantage of in the past, and wanted no further use made of her published art. But what was I to make of the whole experience? Is it proper to borrow the work of others and use it in one's own work before consulting the owner? There is no objective answer. In my case, out of nine respondents, five said it is proper and four said it is wrong. It depends on the feelings of the artist whose work is being borrowed. I can only conclude that Bob has every right to feel as he does, and those contradicting him have every right to feel as they do. Every month I receive a couple requests to use my FOTD fractal images on a web page or CD cover, etc. I usually give permission. If someone manages to make some money in the process, so be it. It would be them who exerted the effort to market their product and make the money. I put very little effort into the creation of the images, and I make no effort to market them. To me, creating fractals is an exploration of the world of numbers rather than an expression of art. However I do put effort into the FOTD discussions, which I still plan to collect some day and edit into a book. If I saw someone blatantly profiting from my literary work, I would most likely take action. IMO, in this debate, both sides are partly right and both sides are partly wrong. This having been said, the C-FOTD will return on January 3, 2001. Jim Muth temporarily Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Khemyst@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 28 Dec 2000 21:40:26 EST --part1_e6.f65911e.277d539a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/27/2000 10:35:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, romers@home.com writes: > I can't imagine that someone wrote copywrite law with the phrase > Lawyers put enough "vaguery" in their wording so it can be subject to interpretation and thus create continuing income for themselves! As we've all seen in the past few years, if you pay the right lawyer the right amount of money, even the most incriminating evidence can be overturned (with the right media soundbytes). Its a simple concept. Guaranteed source of income............provided its 'minimally' clear and concise..... --part1_e6.f65911e.277d539a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/27/2000 10:35:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
romers@home.com writes:


I can't imagine that someone wrote copywrite law with the phrase
'minimum amount of creativity' embedded in it.



Lawyers put enough "vaguery" in their wording so it can be subject to
interpretation and thus create continuing income for themselves!  As  we've
all seen in the past few years, if you pay the right lawyer the right amount
of money, even the most incriminating evidence can be overturned (with the
right media soundbytes).

Its a simple concept.  Guaranteed source of income............provided its
'minimally' clear and concise..... --part1_e6.f65911e.277d539a_boundary-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 16:15:12 +1300 At 21:40 28/12/2000 -0500, Khemyst wrote: >In a message dated 12/27/2000 10:35:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, >romers@home.com writes: > > >>I can't imagine that someone wrote copywrite law with the phrase >>'minimum amount of creativity' embedded in it. > > > >Lawyers put enough "vaguery" in their wording so it can be subject to >interpretation and thus create continuing income for themselves! As we've >all seen in the past few years, if you pay the right lawyer the right amount >of money, even the most incriminating evidence can be overturned (with the >right media soundbytes). > >Its a simple concept. Guaranteed source of income............provided its >'minimally' clear and concise..... And I thought legislation was made by politicians, well - you live and learn. Because I was interested, and capable of making such a search on my own, I looked up my country's copyright law. It was interesting that fractal art - unless it's printed - somehow manages to slip through, apparently not qualifying as neither "computer-generated" nor as a "graphic work" by the definitions given of those phrases. But then, I'm neither a lawyer nor a politician. "Creativity" gets only a very small mention, and "minimum creativity" is not used, but the defintiion of "artistic work" _does_ state that it holds regardless of artistic quality. Morgan L. Owens "And it took me all of quarter of an hour." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 00:45:15 -0600 jerome schatten wrote: > > I'm sorry you think this topic boring. I never said *I* found it boring. I indicated that others may be bored about the constant chatter here that is becoming off topic in may ways. > I can't imagine that someone wrote copywrite law with the phrase > 'minimum amount of creativity' embedded in it. But who knows... > I'm just a dairy farmer. I can tell by the way you spell copyright "copywrite" after this subject has been pounded for several days on the keyboards. :-D Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 29 Dec 2000 01:17:23 -0600 JimMuth@aol.com wrote: > > There is no objective answer. In my case, out of nine > respondents, five said it is proper and four said it is wrong. > It depends on the feelings of the artist whose work is being > borrowed. I can only conclude that Bob has every right to feel > as he does, and those contradicting him have every right to feel > as they do. Sorry to disagree with you, Jim, there is an objective answer and it's called copyright law. Those artists who allowed you to use their artwork in your birthday card project, and did not which to receive compensation, gave you permission *before* you made the set of cards. Those who denied you permission had every right to do so since some of the designs you wanted to use in your set of cards belonged to them. The discussion here has centered on my artwork being taken and displayed at a Web site before permission was asked of me to do so. That's what's in complete violation of the 24-year-old American Copyright Law, and international copyright law, too. Please read the thread I wrote yesterday showing that portion of copyright law that pertains directly with this discussion. It's not a matter here of whether people here agree with my position or not. It's whether they agree with what's stipulated in copyright law. If artwork is taken and used without permission of the original artist, that is not violating *Bob's Law* but that of copyright convention. I stand by my principles because I'm supported by case law, If I didn't have that support, then I would be less outspoken about it, I suppose, but I would work to get such law enacted. You, Jim, have principles, which you've cited here. You asked the artists if it's okay to use their designs *before* making your cards, not afterwards. You showed respect toward those artists in the way you handled the situation. I was shown disrespect by Mr. Miller, who displayed his CD covers at his Web site using my artwork on one of the covers, who told me what he had done *after* doing it. Had I been one of those you contacted beforehand to use my artwork, I would have given a polite *no.* I wouldn't have flown off the handle like some of those who turned down your request. After all, you were simply asking a question of them, nothing more. Why they became irate, I don't understand, because you did not violate their copyright holding at that point in your project. There is a big difference in these two cases discussed here. You sought permission beforehand, Mr. Miller sought it after the fact. And it was Mr. Miller who broke copyright law, not you. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 29 Dec 2000 01:33:19 -0600 Bob Margolis wrote: > > Sorry to disagree with you, Jim, there is an objective answer and it's > called copyright law. Those artists who allowed you to use their artwork > in your birthday card project, and did not which to receive... He meant to write: Sorry to disagree with you, Jim, there is an objective answer and it's called copyright law. Those artists who allowed you to use their artwork in your birthday card project, and did not wish to receive... ^^^^ Looks as if the copyreading key on my keyboard is broken. :-D Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 29 Dec 2000 03:39:25 -0600 Programmer Dude wrote: > > > Maybe some kind soul should generate some nice *free* fractals to send > to the Dead Head to use on his CDs, and we can let Bob go the way .ARC > files went (and .GIF files are soon to go). > Dear Dude; What would your position be if the person who wanted to use your *free* fractal on his CD cover was a neo-Nazi, a White Supremicist, or the KKK's Grand Dragon (if you detest these groups, of course)? Or a Pro Lifer (if you're pro abortion) or a Pro Abortionist (if you're pro life)? Or some other group that espouses opinions 180 degrees from yours? Would you adopt this same "free-for-all" attitude then? What if you don't particularly want to associate yourself with a certain group even though your opinions were similar but you didn't care for them on other grounds? Would you feel then that it is okay for them to use your artwork without seeking permission from you? Is all artwork posted on the Internet supposed to be *free* for the taking, no questions asked? Is it *toughies* for any artist who chooses to make a living by selling artwork over the Internet, because people such as you believe things in life should be *free* to them? Do you believe that all people who honor and respect copyright laws should join me in going the way .ARC files went? Do you find copyright laws silly and an inconvenience to you? If any of your rights would be violated, would that be okay with you? I'd like to read your answers to these questions? Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 29 Dec 2000 10:41:12 -0500 Dear Bob, I have an idea for a fractal algorithm that, as far as I know, uses original concepts. I would be capable of writing my own C++ or Visual Bas= ic source code for it, but I haven't done so yet. The resulting fractal migh= t look like something I've seen on a web site. However, I cannot be sure, because I haven't made it yet. If I were to take on this project, would I= be obliged to inform the author of that web site of my algorithm, so he could compare it with his own? If I did so, wouldn't he then be able to u= se it for fractals of his own? Does not putting fractals on a web site prevent such issues? If so, wouldn't people be afraid to put fractals on a web site because they'd be= worried about what you, as an enforcer of copyright law, would think of their doing so? Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 29 Dec 2000 10:44:58 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >Or some other group that espouses opinions 180 degrees from yours?< Then why don't you just be honest and admit that the reason you don't wan= t Mr. Miller to use your work is that you don't like the Grateful Dead? (Th= is seems to be what you're implying.) Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 09:55:06 -0600 "Morgan L. Owens" wrote: >> Lawyers put enough "vaguery" in their wording so it can be subject to >> interpretation and thus create continuing income for themselves! > > And I thought legislation was made by politicians, well - you live and > learn. Heh. Where do you think most politicians come from? Many of them used to *be* lawyers! -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 29 Dec 2000 10:50:43 -0600 Bob Margolis wrote: > What would your position be if the person who wanted to use your *free* > fractal on his CD cover was a neo-Nazi, a White Supremicist, or the > KKK's Grand Dragon (if you detest these groups, of course)? Are you comparing Dead Heads to neo-Nazis or White Supremicists or KKKs? Are you saying that the *real* reason for your attitude is that you detest Dead Heads or what they stand for? Hmmmm. These comparisons are specious. It was an *individual* who liked your art work and thought it was worth honoring by using. Your response, no matter how *legally* justified it may (or may not) have been, was unkind to that individual. He may have been well-meaning but ignorant. > Or some other group that espouses opinions 180 degrees from yours? If I posted artwork on my website, and if someone else contacted me and actually asked permission, and if I had reasonable perception that they were not using my artwork for financial gain, and *most importantly* if they were doing this on a *personal* level rather than a corporate or organizational level..... Yes, almost certainly. My world's big enough for people with opinions 180 degrees different from mine, and I don't feel the need to attempt to control or thwart them just because I don't agree with them. Further, if I had art work which I considered sellable, from which *I* expected personal, financial gain, I sure wouldn't post it on my web site for the whole world to see. Not in hi-rez format, anyway. What I *do* (or will someday) post on my web site *is* free for personal use. I happen to like the freeware attitude of Fractint, Irfan View, vim and many, many others. That we are given life, that our presence here in this group implies we are granted a pretty darned good life filled with shelter, food, friends.... to me that calls for giving something back, and if someone thinks enough of my work (considering the available ocean of work out there) to want to use it.... I think that's great. > What if you don't particularly want to associate yourself with a > certain group even though your opinions were similar but you didn't > care for them on other grounds? I don't think that way, nor live my life that way. > Would you feel then that it is okay for them to use your artwork > without seeking permission from you? But that's not what happened, is it, Bob. He *sought* your permission, and, AIUI, removed your art after your reply. > Is all artwork posted on the Internet supposed to be *free* for the > taking, no questions asked? Regardless of the legal issues, that's pretty much the way it works out. If you don't like it, tough, that's life. Deal with it. Incorporate your copyright *into* the image as many others do. Add a watermark to the image. Use the image comment capability. Don't post hi-rez work on a *public*, international internet. > Is it *toughies* for any artist who chooses to make a living by selling > artwork over the Internet, because people such as you believe things in > life should be *free* to them? Yes. ;-) Sorry, you deserved that reply, since you've mis-represented my position. For genuine answer, see previous paragraph. Here's a comparison for you. Certain drugs are illegal, but that doesn't stop them from being widely available to those that want'm. The law alone isn't enough to protect your precious artwork from use by others. It's up to YOU to do that. If Mr. Miller had never contacted you, you'd never have known. For all you know, there's a dozen people out there who *are* using your artwork. > Do you believe that all people who honor and respect copyright laws > should join me in going the way .ARC files went? Again, you're mis-representin'. I *do* think people with attitudes like yours are *doomed* to go the way of .ARC files. And, perhaps, rightfully so. The digital age is changing many aspects of life we previously took for granted. It calls for a new mind set. > Do you find copyright laws silly and an inconvenience to you? > If any of your rights would be violated, would that be okay with you? Sheeze, talk about mis-representing. Not worth answering. > I'd like to read your answers to these questions? [grin] What does the question mark at the end mean? You're not sure if you'd like to read my answers? -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) U.S. Code pertaining to copyrights is at Date: 29 Dec 2000 11:54:24 -0500 Bob Margolis wrote: > > http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ (BTW, the same info is available at http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/ in a less annoying format.) A quick read of Sec. 506 - Criminal offenses doesn't seem to support a characterization of Mr Miller's actions as criminal (use of "theft" and analogy with taking tangible personal property). I'm trying to make the point that there is a difference, and one the law makes, between infringement and infringement that rises to the level of the criminal. A distinction you are not making. It would take case law research to figure out whether using a copyright work to illustrate a proposed use for the purpose of seeking the copyright holder's permission for that use would constitute fair use. > One side respects copyright law, the other pooh-poohs it and regards such > law as nonsense, or money-hungry attorney "legalese." How about the third side (there are at least that many) that respects copyright law but understands that infringement is not treated as theft by copyright law and objects to seeing a person characterized as a thief because of the method used to ask permission. > It's the latter group who have taken me to task for defending my position > that permission must be sought *before* using someone else's artwork, and > not to request that permission after the fact. Not accurate. I've taken you to task for your characterization of Mr Miller's actions as "theft". Especially since, on such evidence as we have, it appears he was acting in good faith, simply showed you what he wanted to do and dropped it when told he couldn't. Now, despite my thinking your reaction is over the top, I don't question your right to decide how your image will be used, nor your decision not to allow Mr Miller to use your images. Whatever your reasons and even if you have none at all but pique at his mocking up the CD covers before asking you. One of the rights the artist has is the right to be arbitrary in deciding how his image will be used. > I don't like placing a copyright notice in my design for I feel it > detracts from the picture I want to show, but I'm forced to do so > because of copyright violators. What is really needed is not the copyright notice but something to tell recipients what they can do with the image1. The fact that some folk here think you go too far in describing what Mr Miller did as "theft" and that some don't even think he did anything wrong (I'm not sure it wasn't fair use - as long as it only served to illustrate the use so you'd know exactly what was being asked and he desisted on your refusing) shows that a mere copyright notice fails to clearly communicate what it is you will allow a person to do. When you post a upr you are granting the recipients in the forum you post to an implied licence for some use, but is it clear what the limits of that implied licence are? Will you allow the image to be generated from the upr? [probably part of the implied licence when posting] Will you allow the image to be saved to some permanent medium (hard drive, floppy, etc)? [likely not part of an implied licence] Will you allow personal use, such as windows wallpaper, printing for personal use? [not part of an implied licence] As with Damien's post about what to do when there is a problem, I'm trying to point out something practical to prevent problems in the future. Because of its nature, copyright is not exactly the same as other forms of property and what folk other than the owner can do with it is less clear, particularly when the owner is clearly giving permission for some use (as you are when posting a upr). Instead of relying on others having the same view of a complex and rapidly changing area of law as you do, spell it out. If you are worried about detracting from the image with legalese, put it like: "Feel free to generate the image and save it for future viewing. Please ask me before doing something else with it." just as an example of a fairly narrow licence. Clear licence terms make for good relations between copyright holders and users. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Genealogy1@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 11:57:04 EST I find it hard to believe that this list has degenerated so with it's writings. --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) U.S. Code pertaining to copyrights is at Date: 29 Dec 2000 11:07:36 -0600 Mike Traynor wrote: > Especially since, on such evidence as we have, it appears he was acting > in good faith, simply showed you what he wanted to do and dropped it > when told he couldn't. Good post! Well said!! -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed II PhD Subject: (fractint) Traynor's contribution Date: 29 Dec 2000 11:26:08 -0600 Congrats from the peanut gallery for some legally informed and moderate commentary. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: caren Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 10:36:18 -0800 (PST) --0-1432795212-978114978=:54530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii it does this every once in a while, and 'tis one of the reasons i keep the delete button handy... of course, i had decades of practice on the old bulletin board systems where "conversations" similar to this would go on and on and on, until all respondents realized they'd said all they could and that the others were either gone, dead, or had realized the same thing... and six months later, it would start again... usually different topic, but same result... the topic is important, but it's being beaten to death by people (on both sides of the issue) who aren't listening with an open ear... it can easily be solved: if the infringed believes in his case, he should take it to court and let the court decide... you and i did this (with a number of others) a few years ago and prevailed... what is important to remember is that no amount of conversation *here* is going to change long-held opinions... if the infringed isn't going to take the case to court, the conversation should have ended quite some time ago, as an exercise in moot... -- caren park, monroe, washington state Genealogy1@aol.com wrote: I find it hard to believe that this list has degenerated so with it's writings. --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! --0-1432795212-978114978=:54530 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

it does this every once in a while, and 'tis one of the reasons i keep the delete button handy...  of course, i had decades of practice on the old bulletin board systems where "conversations" similar to this would go on and on and on, until all respondents realized they'd said all they could and that the others were either gone, dead, or had realized the same thing...

and six months later, it would start again...  usually different topic, but same result...

the topic is important, but it's being beaten to death by people (on both sides of the issue) who aren't listening with an open ear...  it can easily be solved:  if the infringed believes in his case, he should take it to court and let the court decide...  you and i did this (with a number of others) a few years ago and prevailed...  what is important to remember is that no amount of conversation *here* is going to change long-held opinions...  if the infringed isn't going to take the case to court, the conversation should have ended quite some time ago, as an exercise in moot...

-- caren park, monroe, washington state

  Genealogy1@aol.com wrote:

I find it hard to believe that this list has degenerated so with it's
writings.

--Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL)


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! --0-1432795212-978114978=:54530-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed II PhD Subject: Deliverance? [Fwd: (fractint) Re: Bah humbug] Date: 29 Dec 2000 13:49:34 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------17CD102BAE67C1ED1DE9756F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sweet relief. --------------17CD102BAE67C1ED1DE9756F Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mx3.airmail.net from [209.196.77.100] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.25) with esmtp for sender: id ; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:08:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists.xmission.com ([198.60.22.7]) by mx3.airmail.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14AHRR-000HwM-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:08:25 -0600 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14AHQj-0000iQ-00 for fractint-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:07:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3A4656FB.302086E@wwa.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 FractInt , UltraFractal References: <3A45F87D.F16D2790@wwa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com X-Airmail-Delivered: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:08:24 -0600 (CST) X-Airmail-Spooled: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:08:24 -0600 (CST) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Mr. Miller has sent me e-mail saying he has removed my artwork from his Website and will not use it as his CD covers. The case is now closed. Merry Christmas. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" --------------17CD102BAE67C1ED1DE9756F-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Genealogy1@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Use formulas to mark your images Date: 29 Dec 2000 16:07:27 EST There are formulas out there that were created by Sylvie Gallet and others that will leave your initials on every fractal image that you create. I've found it to be a good way to discourage piracy when I was more active with fractals. --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Khemyst@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 16:42:05 EST --part1_a9.fadd813.277e5f2d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/28/2000 7:21:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, packrat@nznet.gen.nz writes: > Most politicians are lawyers....sorry I didnt make that point clear enough......... --part1_a9.fadd813.277e5f2d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/28/2000 7:21:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
packrat@nznet.gen.nz writes:


And I thought legislation was made by politicians, well - you live and learn



Most politicians are lawyers....sorry I didnt make that point clear
enough......... --part1_a9.fadd813.277e5f2d_boundary-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ron Barnett Subject: RE: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 29 Dec 2000 18:34:26 -0500 Hi caren, Long time no year from! I agree with you completely (as one of those who was part of that ancient copyright case you speak of). The thieves did have to pay. Some of us do make some money from our fractal art. Unfortunately, many users of the internet have no respect at all for the property of others and feel free to steal it. Since the law suit several years ago, I post very little to the internet. I am also on the ultrafractal list, and I rarely post what I think is my best work there because of the risk of having work stolen. As a case in point, I sold an image from the 1999 contest for a book cover for a major publisher. That sale was temporarily put in jeopardy because the image had also been STOLEN off the contest site and was on a so-called free site. Ron Barnett -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 1:36 PM it does this every once in a while, and 'tis one of the reasons i keep the delete button handy... of course, i had decades of practice on the old bulletin board systems where "conversations" similar to this would go on and on and on, until all respondents realized they'd said all they could and that the others were either gone, dead, or had realized the same thing... and six months later, it would start again... usually different topic, but same result... the topic is important, but it's being beaten to death by people (on both sides of the issue) who aren't listening with an open ear... it can easily be solved: if the infringed believes in his case, he should take it to court and let the court decide... you and i did this (with a number of others) a few years ago and prevailed... what is important to remember is that no amount of conversation *here* is going to change long-held opinions... if the infringed isn't going to take the case to court, the conversation should have ended quite some time ago, as an exercise in moot... -- caren park, monroe, washington state Genealogy1@aol.com wrote: I find it hard to believe that this list has degenerated so with it's writings. --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! << File: ATT00001.html >> Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 29 Dec 2000 20:22:04 -0500 OH.... i have to THINK (again) "so.... you despise DEADHEADS ???" ;^) H^) harry Bob Margolis wrote: > Programmer Dude wrote: > > > > > > Maybe some kind soul should generate some nice *free* fractals to send > > to the Dead Head to use on his CDs, and we can let Bob go the way .ARC > > files went (and .GIF files are soon to go). > > > > Dear Dude; > > What would your position be if the person who wanted to use your *free* > fractal on his CD cover was a neo-Nazi, a White Supremicist, or the > KKK's Grand Dragon (if you detest these groups, of course)? Or a Pro > Lifer (if you're pro abortion) or a Pro Abortionist (if you're pro > life)? Or some other group that espouses opinions 180 degrees from > yours? Would you adopt this same "free-for-all" attitude then? What if > you don't particularly want to associate yourself with a certain group > even though your opinions were similar but you didn't care for them on > other grounds? Would you feel then that it is okay for them to use your > artwork without seeking permission from you? > > Is all artwork posted on the Internet supposed to be *free* for the > taking, no questions asked? > > Is it *toughies* for any artist who chooses to make a living by selling > artwork over the Internet, because people such as you believe things in > life should be *free* to them? > > Do you believe that all people who honor and respect copyright laws > should join me in going the way .ARC files went? > > Do you find copyright laws silly and an inconvenience to you? > > If any of your rights would be violated, would that be okay with you? > > I'd like to read your answers to these questions? > > Bob > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) What is protected by copyright law? Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:29:42 +1300 At 09:55 29/12/2000 -0600, Chris Sonnak wrote: >"Morgan L. Owens" wrote: > > >> Lawyers put enough "vaguery" in their wording so it can be subject to > >> interpretation and thus create continuing income for themselves! > > > > And I thought legislation was made by politicians, well - you live and > > learn. > >Heh. Where do you think most politicians come from? Many of them used >to *be* lawyers! Well, around here they're usually farmers, bankers, corporate executives, policemen and the occasional primary-school teacher. Besides, lawyers make more money than politicians. Morgan L. Owens "We now return you to your regularly-scheduled argument..." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Priest" Subject: (fractint) What is covered by copyright? Date: 29 Dec 2000 19:04:28 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C071CA.2B3993A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I apologize for continuing to flog this particular dead horse, but I am = still interested in the precise question of what is covered by = copyright. Bob Carr writes: "There are formulas out there that were created by Sylvie Gallet and = others that will leave your initials on every fractal image that you = create. I've found it to be a good way to discourage piracy when I was = more active with fractals" Can formula files be copyrighted?? Can PAR files be copyrighted? I = assume that this would be the case. But, does the copyright prevent me = from using that PAR file as a starting point for generating a new and = different fractal image. I am still trying to grasp the basic concept of = what is covered by copyright. Thanks George Priest geopriest@raincity.com P.S. Nice to hear from caren whose work I have enjoyed very much. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C071CA.2B3993A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I apologize for continuing to flog this = particular=20 dead horse, but I am still interested in the precise question of what is = covered=20 by copyright.  Bob Carr writes:
 
"There are formulas out there that were created by Sylvie Gallet = and others=20 that will leave your initials on every fractal image that you create. = I've found=20 it to be a good way to discourage piracy when I was more = active with=20 fractals"
 
Can formula files be = copyrighted??  Can PAR=20 files be copyrighted?  I assume that this would be the case.  = But,=20 does the copyright prevent me from using that PAR file as a starting = point for=20 generating a new and different fractal image. I am still trying to grasp = the=20 basic concept of what is covered by copyright.
 
Thanks
 
George Priest
geopriest@raincity.com<= /DIV>
 
P.S.  Nice to hear from caren = whose work I=20 have enjoyed very much.
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C071CA.2B3993A0-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1 patch 5 Date: 29 Dec 2000 21:14:38 -0600 Ricardo, > Please, which is the version of fractint that still uses integer arithmetic > and which not? The version with integer math still in it is in fradev20.1.05.zip. Notice that this is not a full release. You still need to have the version 20.0 release to get all the associated files. The float only version is in fradevfo20.1.05.zip. If having them both in the same directory is confusing, I can put the float only into a subdirectory. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint bug. Date: 29 Dec 2000 21:07:34 -0600 > Severity: Moderate > Data Loss: Insignificant-None > Reported Against: Fractint 20.01.4 > Description: Video key assignments are no longer remembered. > To Reproduce: Start it up, hit del, go to some unassigned mode, > hit numpad +, hit an unassigned key, select the video > mode, hit del again, key is no longer bound. > With a default install and fractint.cfg: > Start up, del, select 1024x768x256 disk video, > numpad +, alt-F7, select 1024x768x256 disk video, > enter, del, alt-F7 will be unbound. It's curious that sometimes it works fine (for me). I did notice that some of the VESA True-color entries in fractint.cfg are getting trashed. Thanks. I'll fix it. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin / Susan Krikorian Subject: (fractint) Copyrights and Ethics Date: 29 Dec 2000 21:22:35 -0800 We sure have a lot of opinions here (and a lot of talking without listening, it would seem.) I have a question of ethics, rather than rules of law. At least that is what I am interested in. Specifically: I see a FOTD that I like - I grab the formula / par and I render it - then print it and give it to a friend as a gift. Now it would certainly be wrong of me to do this, and illegal as well, as Jim Muth clearly marks his images as copyrighted. Now scenario two: I grab the formula / par and start exploring - visit different parts of the plane, turn on evolver, and find something I like. What I find is not Jim's image, but it might have some details that are similar (considering that it came from the same formula!) Now I print the image for my friend. Is this wrong? Is it illegal? Marty Krikorian Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: harry Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyrights and Ethics Date: 30 Dec 2000 00:52:39 -0500 Let the court decide. How many TV commercials do you see with "sound alike" bites... You know it sounds EXACTLY like (lets say) the Beatles... but it is not. This is legal. It may or may not be Moral. I advertise my band with tye-dye shirts, flowers, etc. You should "think" Grateful Dead ( ;^P pffftttt............ if you don't like 'em). But I am not infringing on the trademarks of the band... for instance by using an actual image or other "property". The picture of the Skull and Roses is an example of actual property. I could take a skull and some roses and photograph it... but that might cut a little to close... OTOH I know that "deadheads" like to hear our music... so I want to reach that market with my posters. The question of ethics comes when the copyright owner is materially harmed, by either making people think they are GOING to hear the Grateful Dead, or buying a product they think is made my the Grateful Dead... not just someone who will "remind" you of the Grateful Dead. My band plays coffeehouses... 50 people max. I am not worried here... Another example (even less moral, but legal...) Look at the store brands in the Drug stores... "Compare to Prepration H......." (BTW a fitting example for this old thread... don'cha think ;^) H^) harry Martin / Susan Krikorian wrote: > We sure have a lot of opinions here (and a lot of talking without > listening, it would seem.) I have a question of ethics, rather than > rules of law. At least that is what I am interested in. > > Specifically: I see a FOTD that I like - I grab the formula / par and I > render it - then print it and give it to a friend as a gift. Now it > would certainly be wrong of me to do this, and illegal as well, as Jim > Muth clearly marks his images as copyrighted. > > Now scenario two: I grab the formula / par and start exploring - visit > different parts of the plane, turn on evolver, and find something I > like. What I find is not Jim's image, but it might have some details > that are similar (considering that it came from the same formula!) Now > I print the image for my friend. Is this wrong? Is it illegal? > > Marty Krikorian > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyrights and Ethics Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:53:59 +1300 At 21:22 29/12/2000 -0800, Marty Krikorian wrote: >Now scenario two: I grab the formula / par and start exploring - visit >different parts of the plane, turn on evolver, and find something I >like. What I find is not Jim's image, but it might have some details >that are similar (considering that it came from the same formula!) Now >I print the image for my friend. Is this wrong? Is it illegal? Since the formula hasn't changed, and the pars (yours and Jim's) are (almost certainly) very different, then I certainly don't see anything wrong about this scenario - the formula itself is uncopyrightable. Being something of a Platonist (and if this is followed up it should be done on the Philofractal list), I think the scenario you describe is analogous to the following: I see a photograph by Ansel Adams and am captivated by the scene. I go to the place depicted, start wandering around with my camera, watching the light change, and snap something I like. It's not Ansel Adams' photograph, but it might have some details that are similar (considering that both were taken in about the same place). No jury in any land I can think of would convict me of infringing Adams' copyright! Morgan L. Owens "They want to own the light!" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) What is covered by copyright? Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:55:13 +1300 At 19:04 29/12/2000 -0800, George Priest wrote: > >Can formula files be copyrighted?? Can PAR files be copyrighted? I >assume that this would be the case. But, does the copyright prevent me >from using that PAR file as a starting point for generating a new and >different fractal image. I am still trying to grasp the basic concept of >what is covered by copyright. Try looking up what the law says. Copyright Act 1973, wasn't it, Bob? Morgan L. Owens "1994 for me." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 30 Dec 2000 08:03:56 -0600 "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: > > Dear Bob, > > I have an idea for a fractal algorithm that, as far as I know, uses > original concepts. I would be capable of writing my own C++ or Visual Basic > source code for it, but I haven't done so yet. The resulting fractal might > look like something I've seen on a web site. However, I cannot be sure, > because I haven't made it yet. If I were to take on this project, would I > be obliged to inform the author of that web site of my algorithm, so he > could compare it with his own? If I did so, wouldn't he then be able to use > it for fractals of his own? Hi Collin; Some people have replied either here on on the FractInt discussion group with hypotheticals such as yours. A lot of "what ifs." It's like asking what if a trained monkey sat down at a trpewriter and pounded out "Gone With the Wind?" There's a chance it could happen, but that chance is so slim to no warrant it ever occuring. The same with your possible algorithm. The chances of your algorithm creating the same, or even nearly the ame, image as a fractal-art picture I made would be virtually none at all. If that ever happened, let me know, and maybe we can start a new business together whereby your fractal-art alorithm would do the labor that I did until your program came along. Then I can retire as a fractal artist. On the other hand, I think I'll keep my daytime job, thank you. > > Does not putting fractals on a web site prevent such issues? If so, > wouldn't people be afraid to put fractals on a web site because they'd be > worried about what you, as an enforcer of copyright law, would think of > their doing so? > I am an enforcer of copyright law as it pertains to what I create. I don't enforce the law as it concerns other fractal artists. It is their perogative if they want to go after the copyright violators. I'll give my moral support to the artist-victim, just as some gave theirs to me during these discussions. People should be afraid to post artwork to their Web sites only if the artwork was not originally done by them, but was done by someone else and posted to the Web site without prior consent of the originating artist. Permission must be sought *before* posting the artwork, not afterward, when it then has become a copyright infringement. Happy New Millennium and Year, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 08:25:24 -0600 "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: > > > Then why don't you just be honest and admit that the reason you don't want > Mr. Miller to use your work is that you don't like the Grateful Dead? (This > seems to be what you're implying.) > Hi Collin; I never heard the Grateful Dead's music. Heck, I never even heard of them until they were mentioned in this discussion. While my first love is classical music, I don't hate rock music either. I listen occasionally to MTV and VH1 to hear what is being created in the popular genre. I listen to hear innovative compostions and instrumentations. I listen to jazz and enjoy it. I listen to blues music and also like it. Speaking solely for myself, I don't want my artwork taken without my consent and used for any purpose, whether or not I agree with that purpose. Is it too much to ask that if someone enjoyed my artwork and thought it would look nice on a CD cover to come to me first with the idea and ask me if I would be willing to support the venture? Isn't that the courteous and decent thing to do? I may agree to allow my artwork to be used that way, I many not agree. But shouldn't that decision be mine since I own what I have created until such time when I give up my ownership and place the artwork in the public domain? What right did Mr. Miller have to make that decision for me before coming to me about it? That question still has not been answered with satisfaction by anyone here who is opposed to my viewpoint. What I seem to hear from those whose opinions differ from mine is that whatever is on the Internet is "free for the taking." And that simply is not true. If you think it's true, try to alter FractInt, a copyrighted program, and place it for downloading on the Internet without seeking permission first from those who hold the copyright to the fractal program. Try to take news articles, which are copyrighted, from the Associated Press and put them on your Web site without permission of the AP. I'm sure you wouldn't do so, unless you were a fool, because you know the AP would come after you and haul your fanny into court. You also know that you would be refused permission by them to post their news articles if you asked them beforehand. Simply put, you have no right to use anything that is copyrighted without getting permssion in writing first. Clear and simple, don't you agree? Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 09:17:23 -0600 Programmer Dude wrote: > > Are you comparing Dead Heads to neo-Nazis or White Supremicists or KKKs? > Are you saying that the *real* reason for your attitude is that you detest > Dead Heads or what they stand for? I never made such a comparison. See my reply to Collin sent to the list several minutes ago. You answered my question later on in your reply. > > It was an *individual* who liked your > art work and thought it was worth honoring by using... He may have been well-meaning but ignorant. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. At least he's no so ignorant of copyright law anymore. I've been told he's recontacted all the artists who works he "borrowed" and asked them again for permission in light of the copyrights being held to each image. So, some progress has been made. > > > Or some other group that espouses opinions 180 degrees from yours? > > > Yes, almost certainly. My world's big enough for people with opinions > 180 degrees different from mine, and I don't feel the need to attempt > to control or thwart them just because I don't agree with them. That's most liberal of you. :-) What would go through your mind then if the public associates you with those groups holding opposing viewpoints because you willingly allowed those groups to use your artwork in support of their cause? > > > What if you don't particularly want to associate yourself with a > > certain group even though your opinions were similar but you didn't > > care for them on other grounds? > I don't think that way, nor live my life that way. So, because you chose to be that way, do you believe that I should model my life after yours? :-) > > > Would you feel then that it is okay for them to use your artwork > > without seeking permission from you? > > But that's not what happened, is it, Bob. He *sought* your permission, > and, AIUI, removed your art after your reply. You didn't answer my question. Put aside the discussion concerning Mr. Miller. The question is a general one. What say you is your answer then? > > > Is all artwork posted on the Internet supposed to be *free* for the > > taking, no questions asked? > > Regardless of the legal issues, that's pretty much the way it works out. You didn't answer the question again. I asked if it was supposed to be "free." Answer the question yes or no, please, without the song and dance. :-) > > If you don't like it, tough, that's life. Deal with it. So we should be anarchists and not live in a nation with laws? It's to be a dog-eat-dog world with every person fending for himself with no law whatsoever? I would have no right to call a cop if a mugger held me up at gunpoint on the street? That's just the way life is, and I should deal with it? > > > Is it *toughies* for any artist who chooses to make a living by selling > > artwork over the Internet, because people such as you believe things in > > life should be *free* to them? > > Yes. ;-) At least your honest. :-) > > Sorry, you deserved that reply, since you've mis-represented my position. > For genuine answer, see previous paragraph. I was just asking a question in general without considering your position. Your "yes" is what I expected to read. :-) > >The law alone > isn't enough to protect your precious artwork from use by others. It's > up to YOU to do that. That's why I contacted Mr. Miller. No one else contacted him on my behalf. > If Mr. Miller had never contacted you, you'd never > have known. For all you know, there's a dozen people out there who *are* > using your artwork. Yes, I'm sure there are. That doesn't make it any more legal. It can't be prevented, I know, but, as I said elsewhere, it's the unscrupulous people on the Internet that have caused some talented fractal artists to not display their artwork any more on that medium. And, we in the fractal-art community lose by not being able to see and study what they've created. Nor can many of us get around to the art shows where there works are displayed. But, as you said, it's tough life and we must deal with it. :-( > > I *do* think people with attitudes like yours are *doomed* to go the way > of .ARC files. And, perhaps, rightfully so. How am I *doomed*? How will I meet my demise holding the attitudes I do? > The digital age is changing > many aspects of life we previously took for granted. It calls for a new > mind set. And everthing on the Internet should be "free for the taking" according to that "new mind set?" > > > Do you find copyright laws silly and an inconvenience to you? > > If any of your rights would be violated, would that be okay with you? > > Sheeze, talk about mis-representing. Not worth answering. Not misrepresentation, Dude. Just wanting to get your viewpoint regarding copyright law, that's all. Would you please answer the question? > > > I'd like to read your answers to these questions? > > [grin] What does the question mark at the end mean? No, it was meant to be a period, but I got so used to typing question marks, that I didn't notice the typo until after sending the e-mail off to the group. But, at least it's *free* and takes up just as much space as a period. You're getting more for *free* than just a measly period. :-) > You're not sure if > you'd like to read my answers? Oh, I did like reading your answers. I may not like your responses to some of the questions, but at least you were being honest and open about them. You're okay, Dude, even if you are too liberal for my conservative taste. :-) Happy New Millennium and New Year to you also, Dude. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re; What is protected by copyright law? Date: 30 Dec 2000 09:21:05 -0600 Genealogy1@aol.com wrote: > > I find it hard to believe that this list has degenerated so with it's > writings. > > --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) > Hi Doc; Nice to hear from you. Have you written any more formulas for FractInt lately? I haven't seen new formulas since Carr 3699, and wondered what, if anything, has been in the works. Cheers, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Stolen? Artwork Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:55:39 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >Some people have replied either here on on the FractInt discussion group= with hypotheticals such as yours. A lot of "what ifs." It's like asking what if a trained monkey sat down at a trpewriter and pounded out "Gone With the Wind?" There's a chance it could happen, but that chance is so slim to no warrant it ever occuring. The same with your possible algorithm. < I'm not referring to a duplication of the image. Beethoven's 2nd Symphony= , for example, was (presumably) constructed using the same "algorithms" tha= t he perceived Mozart as having used for most of his symphonies. Now obviously, it would be almost impossible for Beethoven to invent a sympho= ny identical to a Mozart symphony. However, it was quite likely, and in fact= happened, that the fact that he was inspired by Mozart was apparent in hi= s work; that there is a *connotation* of "Mozart, this is an example of wha= t you wrote". The question is whether this act of being inspired overshadow= s the originality of the work so produced. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Copyrights and Ethics Date: 30 Dec 2000 11:07:26 -0500 >> Now scenario two: I grab the formula / par and start exploring - vis= it different parts of the plane, turn on evolver, and find something I like.= = What I find is not Jim's image, but it might have some details that are similar (considering that it came from the same formula!) Now I print th= e image for my friend. Is this wrong? Is it illegal? << Of course not! Exploring is what Fractint is all about! I always zoom into or out of Jim's FOTD, play with the colors, etc. I encourage other fractaholics and artists to do the same with mine - that is why I've alwa= ys supplied par files with all of my images on all 4 fractal CDs that I've published. Fractint is fun - pure fun! - and there's a lifetime of exploration involved in exploring details in almost any one image! = Fractals are God's gift to mathematicians - they can create awe and euphoria from finding unexpected forms and beauty not unlike early explorers of the new world felt when coming across for the first time places like the Grand Canyon, Yosemite and Yellowstone. If we weren't supposed to share images and pars for others to build upon and explore further, then we might as well stamp "Top Secret" on Fractint Distributio= n, put our computers in security vaults, shut down this list, make pars and images controlled substances, and throw Jim in jail for distributing them= . Lee Skinner Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 11:10:13 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >And, we in the fractal-art community lose by not being able to see and study what they've created.< I agree that we lose. But I'd like to hear you explain what it is that we're losing, so we know why that wasn't what Mr. Miller was trying to ge= t. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: What is protected by copyright law? Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:15:08 -0600 caren wrote: > > and six months later, it would start again... usually different > topic, but same result... > Hi Caren; Yes, the same topic pops up periodically in all the fractal discussion groups. You know it, I know it, and all the old-times know it. But, it should be remembered that these discussion groups get new subscribers continually and they may not know anything about the issues that were discussed here in the past. It is also nice to get *fresh* viewpoints, although I admit guilt in either starting or joining in conversations in the past that concern copyright law. So, my viewpoint isn't *fresh*, but it leads to conversation amongst the rank and file, which is the purpose, I feel, of a discussion group. While I didn't agree with much of what "Programmer Dude" answered in reply to my questions, it was most interesting to read his thoughts on the matter. I found the discussion stimulating. Sure, I could have hit the delete key and not have replied to anyone, but I like discussions and debates. It reminds me of those years in college when some of us would suck coffee the remainder of many an afternoon while talking about issues in vogue at the time. I delight in being informed, even if the topic becomes old hat. Hopefully, some newbies learned something the past several days by reading our mail. Cheers, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: Stolen? Artwork Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:27:24 -0600 "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: > > I'm not referring to a duplication of the image. Beethoven's 2nd Symphony, > for example, was (presumably) constructed using the same "algorithms" that > he perceived Mozart as having used for most of his symphonies. Now > obviously, it would be almost impossible for Beethoven to invent a symphony > identical to a Mozart symphony. However, it was quite likely, and in fact > happened, that the fact that he was inspired by Mozart was apparent in his > work; that there is a *connotation* of "Mozart, this is an example of what > you wrote". The question is whether this act of being inspired overshadows > the originality of the work so produced. > No, I don't think so. Stepping away from the music scene and confining the discussion to fractal art, many of us are influenced by famous artists. Me, for instance? It's Escher and Dali. Sometimes I have produced images that vaguely resemble Escher's tilings, and have received favorable comments from those who know Escher's works. I am also inspired by fellow fractal artists, many of them, such as Sylvie Gallet, who may be familiar to you. If I like a certain technique, I study the artists' methods of construction by reading their parameter files. Then I design a picture based upon what I learned from my studies. At the same time, I try to add some of my own originality to the piece so that it doesn't look as if I'm trying to copy someone else's style. The combination of the two create a work that is similar and, at the same time, different from the work of the artist I'm trying to emulate. The result is a *fresh* composition and not a duplication of the other person's. Cheers, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwydion" Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyrights and Ethics Date: 30 Dec 2000 16:28:45 -0000 Maybe we should rename this list copyright Q & A Gwydion Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:42:23 -0600 "Barry N. Merenoff" wrote: > > I agree that we lose. But I'd like to hear you explain what it is that > we're losing, so we know why that wasn't what Mr. Miller was trying to get. > We're losing of the enjoyment of seeing the accomplishments of the talented fractal artists. That has nothing to do with Mr. Miller. But, bringing him into the equation, I saw what was done with my design. On the CD cover he made, my artwork became background while most of the image was covered by text he placed atop of it. I don't create fractal artwork as background designs for someone else's "Wheaties box" so to speak. Would any of you enjoy seeing the Mona Lisa after someone else covered it with text? I felt that what I labored to design became quite pedestrian when it the background for Mr. Miller's CD. The important thing on his CD was the text because it told people its contents. Since the text was the important item and my artwork secondary, my artwork wasn't needed to promote his CD. A white background would have sufficed. I have pride as an artist, and detest seeing my accomplishments cheapened in such a manner. Should you fault me for having pride in what I design and becoming protective of it when it is used in a manner which I had not intended for it? bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:49:48 -0600 harry wrote: > > > > "so.... you despise DEADHEADS ???" > I've answered this question twice this morning. I never heard of them until this discussion started. If you asked me a week ago, I would have thought a 'deadhead" is where my letters wound up at the post office. :-D Happy whatever, Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: What is covered by copyright? Date: 30 Dec 2000 11:14:55 -0600 > George Priest wrote: > > > Can formula files be copyrighted?? Can PAR files be copyrighted? I > assume that this would be the case. But, does the copyright prevent > me from using that PAR file as a starting point for generating a new > and different fractal image. I am still trying to grasp the basic > concept of what is covered by copyright. I answered this the other day, George. Formulas cannot be copyrighted. Parameter files are copyrightable because they contain the information that creates the designs. There could not be the design without parameters. The design IS the parameters. A different viewpoint was taken as to formulas. I don't remember the specifics as to why, but I suppose if formulas were copyrightable that would stifle creativity and scientific advancement. If Benoit Mandelbrot was able to copyright the formula that led to the study of fractals, then we would have none of the formulas written by others that are used every day in FractInt. If Gaston Julia had his formula copyrighted, and the copyright was renewed before every expiration date, then Benoit would not have been able to use it to derive his own formula. A parameter file would have to be significantly altered so that the original source could not be recognized by any backward manipulation. A simple zoom-in would still be considered copyright infringement, since the original source could be ascertained in a zoom-out. I wish I could explain this better, but my mind right now is thinking more about shoveling the several inches of snow that fell overnight and continues to fall this moment. My wife is getting after me to clear the sidewalk. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: Re: (fractint) What is covered by copyright? Date: 30 Dec 2000 11:20:04 -0600 "Morgan L. Owens" wrote: > > > Try looking up what the law says. Copyright Act 1973, wasn't it, Bob? > 1976. Here's a handy URL that I posted Wednesday: http://www.umass.edu/acco/mrs/copyright.html . Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:59:46 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >Should you fault me for having pride in what I design and becoming protective of it when it is used in a manner which I had not intended for it?< No. The answers you gave to my last two posts explain everything. You've redeemed yourself. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed II PhD Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:30:55 -0600 Fellow Fractaliers-

Interesting that in 10 posts from one Discussant in less than 4 hours, we "newbies" are allegedly being "enlightened" about copyright law as it pertains to visual and aural art (music) by someone who admits he doesn't even know who The Grateful Dead are (let alone one iota of the law).

I'm no great fan of the Dead but at least know that they pioneered combining cover art and musical content, and maintained almost complete control of their "intellectual property" - and their profit margin - maintaining control of the entire process from neuron to Net by marketing and selling it themselves, in accordance with existing Patent and Trademark ("PAT") Law, and relevant copyright statutes which have governed the music industry for years.

Much could be learned, as opposed to pronounced or "enforced"(!), by our prolific "shade tree lawyer" Discussants should they elect to:
1) make a quick trip to their local (i.e., city, county, State) public Law Library, or lacking such a facility,
2) perform a few quick online searches of:
    a) WestLaw or Lexis, or should all else fail, of
    b) the already-referenced (by others, earlier in the week) web sites maintained
by virtually every accredited Law School in the US.

Your local or regional university's Law School will almost certainly have extensive, easily-searchable online legal resources.

For example, a quick search of a local Law School Library's online resources and Catalog revealed:
1) at least 10 monthly or bi-monthly Law Journals currently devoted almost exclusively to the issues being discussed;
2) 4 "Special Issues" of Law Reviews (student-edited, school-sponsored periodicals) devoted exclusively to the topic;
3) an average of 5 monographs(books) being published every month,
4) at least 3 Proceedings of national/international Legal Conferences published in the year 2000 alone, as well as
3) numerous (>15) "Reporters", which are subscription-only syntheses of even narrower niches of relevant statute and case law in every US and international jurisdiction.

I'm unaware of a legal Journal, Law Review, monograph, Conference Proceeding, or Reporter devoted exclusively to fractal-based art/music-related intellectual property law and/or copyright/patent/trademark infringement law.

Nevertheless, one will undoubtedly appear soon given the increasing frequency and circularity of such discussions on this site and their even greater frequency and emotionalism on the UltraFract- and other-related sites where users of one or more of the various free-/shareware packages who think of themselves as (and in some cases actually are) "artists" daily bemoan their foreseeable "victimization" by "theft" of PARS, etc which they themselves continue to post without taking precautions.

I still think Mike Traynor's recent comments (his Fri, 12/29/00, 10:54am post) are  the best point of departure for anyone really interested in ascertaining his/her rights under existing statutory and case law.

freed
 
 

Bob Margolis wrote:

harry wrote:
>
>
>
> "so....  you despise DEADHEADS ???"
>

I've answered this question twice this morning. I never heard of them
until this discussion started. If you asked me a week ago, I would have
thought a 'deadhead" is where my letters wound up at the post office.
:-D

Happy whatever,

Bob

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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:19:07 -0600 DeBow Freed II PhD wrote: > > Fellow Fractaliers- > > Interesting that in 10 posts from one Discussant in less than 4 hours, > we "newbies" are allegedly being "enlightened" about copyright law as > it pertains to visual and aural art (music) by someone who admits he > doesn't even know who The Grateful Dead are (let alone one iota of the > law). Why am I being criticized for not knowing The Grateful Dead? What bearing does that have I what I've learned about copyright law? In all that I've read about copyright law, I've never come across the name The Grateful Dead. Would knowing about The Grateful Dead make me more knowledgeable about copyright law? Or don't you have better things to do than to criticize me for my lack of knowledge regarding the rock scene? > > I'm no great fan of the Dead but at least know that they pioneered > combining cover art and musical content, and maintained almost > complete control of their "intellectual property" - and their profit > margin - maintaining control of the entire process from neuron to Net > by marketing and selling it themselves, in accordance with existing > Patent and Trademark ("PAT") Law, and relevant copyright statutes > which have governed the music industry for years. Hooray for you, DeBow Freed II! You are so much better than I am because of your knowledge of The Grateful Dead. Since you see fit to put me down a notch or two, why don't you get up in front of the class and tell us all you know about copyright law, without telling us all the places we should go to research the topic? I'm willing to listen. Maybe I could learn something from you since you find yourself so superior to me. It would be more appropriate if you tell the others what you personally know about copyright law instead of showing them how you can make a personal attack on. Your attacking me does nothing to show that you're learned about copyright law. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:31:42 -0600 Bob Margolis wrote: > It would be more appropriate if you tell the others what you personally know about copyright law instead of showing them how you can make a personal attack on. I left off the word "me" at the end of the sentence. Sorry. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ron Barnett Subject: (fractint) A smoothly colored PTC fractint image Date: 30 Dec 2000 16:25:18 -0500 Happy New Year to the Fractint list. I haven't posted a new image generated with Fractint in a while. The Fractal of the Week on my web site is a PTC Fractint image with smooth coloring. The only post processing was to anti-alias the image. The par and formula are below: Ron Barnett Hidden Dimension A fractal art and music site in the Adirondacks http://www.hiddendimension.com pinwheels { ; Copyright Ron Barnett Dec 2000 t= 0:02:16.22 ; www.hiddendimension.com fractals@hiddendimension.com ; On a Pentium III(667 at 1280 x 1024 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=layers.frm formulaname=MandExpLayers1 passes=1 center-mag=-0.82763882815902180/+0.23035175124369770/4506.941 params=10000/10/0/100/128/65 float=y maxiter=1024 inside=0 decomp=256 periodicity=0 sound=off colors=ZAc<2>XAaWA`VAZ<19>A5A959848<2>544332343<25>GXnHYpHZr<2>JaxKczKby\ <23>8CG8BE7AC<2>676554654<25>lPLmQLoQM<3>vUP<24>D87B76965<3>122<26>WnXYp\ YZrZ<2>axaczcbyb<23>BF8AD79B6<2>652430431<30>ZAc } MandExpLayers1 = { ; Ron Barnett, 2000 ; ; colors Mandelbrot set by combining the smoothed iteration ; with a plain background ; and adds a second layer with an orbit trap ; ; use decomp=256 ; real(p1) = bailout ; imag(p1) = color spread adjustment layer 1 ; real(p2) = background ; imag(p2) = color spread adjustment layer 2 ; real(p3) = palette offset for layer 1 ; imag(p3) = palette offset for layer 2 ; calculation performed on variable zc, z used for coloring ; closest = 1e+38 maxr = real(p1) scale1 = imag(p1)*pi/128 scale2 = imag(p2)*pi/128 offset1 = real(p3)*pi/128 offset2 = imag(p3)*pi/128 iterexp = 0 iter = 1 zc = 0 c = pixel background = real(p2): iterexp = iterexp + exp(-cabs(zc)) iter = iter + 1 zc = sqr(zc)+c d = abs(real(zc)+imag(zc)) IF (d < closest) closest = d ENDIF IF ((|zc| > maxr) || (iter == maxit)) smooth1 = iterexp*scale1+offset1 ang1 = cos(smooth1)+flip(sin(smooth1)) smooth2 = closest*scale2+offset2 ang2 = cos(smooth2)+flip(sin(smooth2)) z = (whitesq)*ang1*128/pi+(whitesq == 0)*ang2*128/pi IF (iter == maxit) z = background ENDIF iter = -1 ENDIF iter > 0 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Genealogy1@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Jim Muth formulas Date: 30 Dec 2000 16:54:38 EST Is there a site or a location where I can download all of the formulas Jim Muth has posted? TIA --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: (fractint) Happy New Year 2001 Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:48:45 +0100 with my best wishes for 2001! Guy *************************** ny2001-1 { ; no copyright.. :-) ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=ny2001.frm formulaname=ny2001-1 function=recip/ident passes=1 center-mag=0.0106685/-1.05838/20/1/90 params=-40/-56/1/1/-0.005/0.9 float=y maxiter=200 inside=fmod proximity=1.3 outside=fmod invert=0.02/0/0 periodicity=0 cyclerange=1/1 colors=zzzzzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } ny2001-2 { ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=ny2001.frm formulaname=ny2001-2 function=recip/ident passes=1 center-mag=0.849796/0.00681771/41.85026 params=-2/12/1.3/-1.43/-0.5/-1.2 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=fmod proximity=0.7 outside=fmod invert=0.02/0/0 periodicity=0 cyclerange=1/1 colors=zzzzzzyzzzyzzyyyyyxyyyxzyxxxxxwxxxwyxwwwwwvwwwvxwvvvvvuvvvuwvuuuu\ utuuutvutttttstttsutsssssrsssrtsrrrrrqrrrqsrqqqqqpqqqprqpppppopppoqpoooo\ onooonponnnnnmnnnmonmmmmmlmmmlnmlllllklllkmlkkkkkjkkkjlkjjjjjijjjikjiiii\ ihiiihjihhhhhghhhgihgggggfgggfhgfffffefffegfeeeeedeeedfedddddcdddcedcccc\ cbcccbdcbbbbbabbbacbaaaaa`aaa`ba`````_```_a`_____Z___Z`_ZZZZZYZZZY_ZYYYY\ YXYYYXZYXXXXXWXXXWYXWWWWWVWWWVXWVVVVVUVVVUWVUUUUUTUUUTVUTTTTTSTTTSUTSSSS\ SRSSSRTSRRRRRQRRRQSRQQQQQPQQQPRQPPPPPOPPPOQPOOOOONOOONPONNNNNMNNNMONMMMM\ MLMMMLNMLLLLLKLLLKMLKKKKKJKKKJLKJJJJJIJJJIKJIIIIIHIIIHJIHHHHHGHHHGIHGGGG\ GFGGGFHGFFFFFEFFFEGFEEEEEDEEEDFEDDDDDCDDDCEDCCCCCBCCCBDCBBBBBABBBACBAAAA\ A9AAA9BA9999989998A98888878887987777767776876666656665765555545554654444\ 4344435433333233324322222122213211111011102100<2>000 } frm:ny2001-1 { ; using modified .frm's from Jim Muth and Sylvie Gallet ; Try fn1=recip, fn2=ident.. ; If (B=A*C) then the text is invisible, else=visible! ; A = real(P2), B = imag(P2), C = imag(P3) ; 'periodicity=0' and 'passes=1' recommended x=real(scrnpix)/real(scrnmax), y=(imag(scrnmax)-imag(scrnpix))/(rea\ l(scrnmax)*0.75), z=x+flip(y) chrH1 = x<0.12495||x>0.13845||(y<0.84498&&y>0.84002)&&x>0.12&&x<0.1\ 434 xCA=3*x chrA2 = y>xCA+0.36065||y>-xCA+1.3537||(y<0.838&&y>0.83305)&&y0.84002||y>0.86005||x<0.19257&&x>0.18762&&x<0.\ 20157||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.20157,-0.85251))-0.01001)<0.00248&&x>=0.2015\ 7) chrP4 = y<0.84498&&y>0.84002||y>0.86005||x<0.22351&&x>0.21856&&x<0.\ 23251||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.23251,-0.85251))-0.01001)<0.00248&&x>=0.2325\ 1) xCY=2*x chrY5 = yxCY+0.30095||(y>-xCY+1.36399&&y<-xCY+1.375\ 05)&&y>xCY+0.30095 test1 = chrH1||chrA2||chrP3||chrP4||chrY5&&y>0.82&&y<0.865 xCN=2.5*x chrN6 = x>0.1&&x<0.10495||(x>0.118&&x<0.12333)||(y>-xCN+1.045&&y<-x\ CN+1.05833) chrE7 = x<0.13278||y<0.75495||(y<0.77498&&y>0.77002)||y>0.79005&&x>\ 0.12783&&x<0.15078 xCW=4*x chrW8 = yxCW+0.06347||(y>-xCW+1.47613&&y<-xCW+1.496\ 53)&&y<0.78||(y>-xCW+1.41613&&y<-xCW+1.43653)||(yxC\ W+0.00347) chrY10 = yxCY+0.29816||(y>-xCY+1.22677&&y<-xCY+1.23\ 784)&&y>xCY+0.29816 chrE11 = x<0.25787||y<0.75495||(y<0.77498&&y>0.77002)||y>0.79005&&x\ >0.25292&&x<0.27587 chrA12 = y>xCA-0.10676||y>-xCA+1.6811||(y<0.768&&y>0.76305)&&y0.77002||y>0.79005||x<0.32504&&x>0.32009&&x<0\ .33404||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.33404,-0.78251))-0.01001)<0.00248&&x>=0.334\ 04)||(y<0.7725&&y<-xCR+1.44305&&y>-xCR+1.43198) test2 = chrN6||chrE7||chrW8||chrY10||chrE11||chrA12||chrR13&&y>0.75\ &&y<0.795 x2=2.5*x chr214 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.1696,-0.7004))-0.0154)<0.0042&&(y>0.7004||y\ >-x/1.23486+0.83774)||(y<1.23486*x+0.47317&&y>1.23486*x+0.45982&&y<\ -x/1.23486+0.83774)||y<0.6584&&x>0.15&&x<0.1892 chr015 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.2158,-0.7004))-0.0154)<0.0042&&y>0.7004||(a\ bs(cabs(z+(-0.2158,-0.6696))-0.0154)<0.0042&&y<0.6696)||(((x>0.1962\ &&x<0.2046)||(x>0.227&&x<0.2354))&&y>0.6696&&y<0.7004) chr016 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.262,-0.7004))-0.0154)<0.0042&&y>0.7004||(ab\ s(cabs(z+(-0.262,-0.6696))-0.0154)<0.0042&&y<0.6696)||(((x>0.2424&&\ x<0.2508)||(x>0.2732&&x<0.2816))&&y>0.6696&&y<0.7004) x1=1.5*x chr117 = yx1+0.24862&&y>-x/1.5+0.88907||(x>0.30585&&\ x<0.31425) test3 = chr214||chr015||chr016||chr117&&y>0.65&&y<0.72 xt=1*x chrt18 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.16625,-0.50454))-0.00343)<0.0011&&y<0.50454\ ||(x>0.16172&&x<0.16393&&y>0.50454)||(x>0.16&&x<0.16736&&y>0.51054&\ &y<0.51275) chrn19 = x>0.17249&&x<0.1747&&y<0.51275||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.17703,-0.5\ 0821))-0.00343)<0.0011&&y>0.50821)||(x>0.17935&&x<0.18156&&y<0.5082\ 1) xx=2*x chrx20 = yxx+0.12853||(y>-xx+0.87928&&y<-xx+0.88422)\ &&y<0.51275 test4 = chrt18||chrn19||chrx20&&y>0.5&&y<0.517 chrt21 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.17623,-0.48449))-0.00347)<0.00102&&y<0.4844\ 9||(x>0.17174&&x<0.17378&&y>0.48449)||(x>0.17&&x<0.17725&&y>0.49071\ &&y<0.49275) chro22 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.1888,-0.48638))-0.00536)<0.00102 test5 = chrt21||chro22&&y>0.48&&y<0.497 chrS23 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.34565,-0.57435))-0.00435)<0.0013&&(x<=0.345\ 65||y>0.57435)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.34565,-0.56565))-0.00435)<0.0013&&(\ x>0.34565||y<0.56565)) xy=2.5*x chry24 = yxy-0.34525||(y>-xy+1.45825&&y<-xy+1.46525)\ &&y>xy-0.34525&&y<0.575&&y>0.55 chrl25 = x<0.3727&&x>0.3701 xv=3*x chrv26 = y>-xv+1.6991&&y<-xv+1.70732||yxv-0.58732&&y<\ 0.575 chri27 = x>0.38944&&x<0.39204&&(y<0.5748||y>0.5774) chre28 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.40154,-0.5675))-0.0062)<0.0013&&(x<0.40154|\ |y>0.56707||y<0.56577)||(y>0.56707&&y<0.56967&&x>0.39534&&x<0.40774\ ) test6 = chrS23||chrl25||chrv26||chri27||chre28&&y>0.56||chry24&&y<0\ .58 chrJ29 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.4656,-0.5056))-0.0044)<0.0012&&y<=0.505||(x\ >0.4688&&y>0.505)&&x<0.4712 chri30 = x>0.4732&&x<0.4756&&(y<0.5152||y>0.5176) chrm31 = x>0.4776&&x<0.48&&y<0.515||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.48289,-0.50971)\ )-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.50971)||(x>0.48578&&x<0.48818&&y<0.50971)||(\ abs(cabs(z+(-0.49106,-0.50971))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.50971)||(x>0.4\ 9395&&x<0.49635&&y<0.50971) test7 = chrJ29||chri30||chrm31&&y>0.5&&y<0.52 chrT32 = y>0.4976&&x>0.54&&x<0.5524||(x>0.545&&x<0.5474) chri33 = x>0.5544&&x<0.5568&&(y<0.4952||y>0.4976) chrm34 = x>0.5588&&x<0.5612&&y<0.495||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.56409,-0.4897\ 1))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.48971)||(x>0.56697&&x<0.56937&&y<0.48971)|\ |(abs(cabs(z+(-0.57226,-0.48971))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.48971)||(x>0\ .57515&&x<0.57755&&y<0.48971) test8 = chrT32||chri33||chrm34&&y>0.48&&y<0.5 chrJ35 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.6056,-0.4656))-0.0044)<0.0012&&y<=0.465||(x\ >0.6088&&y>0.465)&&x<0.6112 chra36 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.61755,-0.47065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.61755\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.61955,-0.47065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.61955)&&y>0\ .47065||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.61755,-0.46435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.6175\ 5)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.61955,-0.46435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.61955))||\ (x>0.61755&&x<0.61955&&(y<0.4624||(y>0.4726&&y<0.475)||(y>0.4663&&y\ <0.4687)))||(x>0.6215&&x<0.6239&&y<0.47065) chrn37 = x>0.6259&&x<0.6283&&y<0.475||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.63119,-0.4697\ 1))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.46971)||(x>0.63408&&x<0.63647&&y<0.46971) chrDS38 = y<0.4692&&y>0.4668&&x>0.63847&&x<0.64987 xCM=2.5*x chrM39 = y>-xCM+2.10969&&y<-xCM+2.11615||(yxCM-1.18\ 282)&&y>0.46667||(x>0.65187&&x<0.65427)||(x>0.66273&&x<0.66513) chrDT40 = y<0.4624&&x>0.66713&&x<0.66953 test9 = chrJ35||chra36||chrn37||chrDS38||chrM39||chrDT40&&y>0.46&&y\ <0.48 chrJ41 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.7956,-0.4156))-0.0044)<0.0012&&y<=0.415||(x\ >0.7988&&y>0.415)&&x<0.8012 chro42 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.8107,-0.4175))-0.0063)<0.0012 chrn43 = x>0.8202&&x<0.8226&&y<0.425||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.82549,-0.4197\ 1))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.41971)||(x>0.82838&&x<0.83078&&y<0.41971) chra44 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.83712,-0.42065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.83712\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.83912,-0.42065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.83912)&&y>0\ .42065||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.83712,-0.41435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.8371\ 2)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.83912,-0.41435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.83912))||\ (x>0.83712&&x<0.83912&&(y<0.4124||(y>0.4226&&y<0.425)||(y>0.4163&&y\ <0.4187)))||(x>0.84107&&x<0.84347&&y<0.42065) chrt45 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.85281,-0.41529))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y<0.41529\ ||(x>0.84752&&x<0.84992&&y>0.41529)||(x>0.84547&&x<0.85401&&y>0.422\ 6&&y<0.425) chrh46 = x>0.86009&&x<0.86249||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.86538,-0.4175))-0.00\ 409)<0.0012&&y>0.4175)||(x>0.86827&&x<0.87067&&y<0.4175) chra47 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.87702,-0.42065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.87702\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.87902,-0.42065))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.87902)&&y>0\ .42065||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.87702,-0.41435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x<0.8770\ 2)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.87902,-0.41435))-0.00315)<0.0012&&x>0.87902))||\ (x>0.87702&&x<0.87902&&(y<0.4124||(y>0.4226&&y<0.425)||(y>0.4163&&y\ <0.4187)))||(x>0.88097&&x<0.88337&&y<0.42065) chrn48 = x>0.88537&&x<0.88777&&y<0.425||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.89066,-0.41\ 971))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y>0.41971)||(x>0.89354&&x<0.89594&&y<0.41971\ ) test10 = chrJ41||chro42||chrn43||chra44||chrt45||chrh46||chra47||ch\ rn48&&y>0.41&&y<0.43 chre49 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.8175,-0.3575))-0.0063)<0.0012&&(x<0.8175||y\ >0.3571||y<0.3559)||(y>0.3571&&y<0.3595&&x>0.8112&&x<0.8238) chrt50 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.83433,-0.35529))-0.00409)<0.0012&&y<0.35529\ ||(x>0.82904&&x<0.83144&&y>0.35529)||(x>0.827&&x<0.83553&&y>0.3626&\ &y<0.365) xc=1*x chrc51 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.84912,-0.3575))-0.0063)<0.0012&&(x<0.84912|\ |y>xc-0.49162||y<-xc+1.20662) chrDT52 = y<0.3524&&x>0.85642&&x<0.85882 chrDT53 = y<0.3524&&x>0.86082&&x<0.86322 test11 = chre49||chrt50||chrc51||chrDT52||chrDT53&&y>0.35&&y<0.37 test=test1||test2||test3||test4||test5||test6||test7||test8||test9|\ |test10||test11 test0=test0&&whitesq test0=((test0||test)==0) f1=fn1(imag(p3)*fn2(real(p2)*pixel)) f2=1/(imag(p2)*pixel) pixel=(test==0)*f1+test*f2 ; Import of formula 'defini50' from file DEFINIT.FRM ; MandelbrotMix4 parameters (hard-coded): ; ------------------------- vun mir GM veraennert! p_p1 = (1,-0.5) p_p2 = (50,0) p_p3 = (0.3,250) ; Function: r ; User-selectable Lake parameters: ; ------------------------------- ; real part of p2: 0 = lake transform disabled ; any value between 0 and 100: water level in % of ; the screen height (0 = bottom, 100 = top) ; imag part of p2: phase ; real part of p3: amplitude of the wave (try 0.2) ; imag part of p3: frequency (try 300) ; Lake transformation (Sylvie Gallet) ; ------------------- if (real(p_p2) > 0 && real(p_p2) <= 100) level = real(p_p2) / 100 ; water level phase = imag(p_p2) ; phase ampl = real(p_p3) ; amplitude of the wave freq = imag(p_p3) ; frequency angle = real(rotskew * pi / 180) exp_irot = exp(-flip(angle)) h = 1 / real(magxmag) w = h / 0.75 * imag(magxmag) tanskew = tan(imag(rotskew * pi / 180)) u = 2 * w * exp_irot v = 2 * h * (tanskew + flip(1)) * exp_irot z3rd = center + (-w-h*tanskew - flip(h)) * exp_irot z = pixel - z3rd b = imag(conj(u)*z) / imag(conj(u)*v) if (b <= level) dy = level - b z = z + 2*dy * (1+ampl*sin(freq*dy^0.2 + phase)) * v endif pixel = z + z3rd endif ; Modified MandelbrotMix4 formula (Jim Muth) ; ------------------------------- a = real(p1) , b = imag(p1) , d = real(p2) , f = imag(p2) g = 1/f , h = 1/d , j = 1/(f-b) , z = (-a*b*g*h)^j k = real(p3) + 1 , l = imag(p3) + 100 , c = fn1(pixel) : z = k*(a*(z^b) + d*(z^f)) + c |z| < l } frm:ny2001-2 { ; using modified .frm's from Jim Muth and Sylvie Gallet ; Try fn1=recip, fn2=ident.. ; If (B=A*C) then the text is invisible, else=visible! ; A = real(P2), B = imag(P2), C = imag(P3) ; 'periodicity=0' and 'passes=1' recommended x=real(scrnpix)/real(scrnmax), y=(imag(scrnmax)-imag(scrnpix))/(rea\ l(scrnmax)*0.75), z=x+flip(y) chrP1 = y<0.8426&&y>0.8374||y>0.8548||x<0.1052&&x>0.1&&x<0.1132||(a\ bs(cabs(z+(-0.1132,-0.8487))-0.0087)<0.0026&&x>=0.1132) chrl2 = x<0.1337&&x>0.1285 chre3 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.1527,-0.835))-0.0124)<0.0026&&(x<0.1527||y>0\ .83413||y<0.83153)||(y>0.83413&&y<0.83933&&x>0.1403&&x<0.1651) chra4 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.1805,-0.8412))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.1805||(ab\ s(cabs(z+(-0.1845,-0.8412))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.1845)&&y>0.8412||((\ abs(cabs(z+(-0.1805,-0.8288))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.1805)||(abs(cabs(\ z+(-0.1845,-0.8288))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.1845))||(x>0.1805&&x<0.184\ 5&&(y<0.8252||(y>0.8448&&y<0.85)||(y>0.8324&&y<0.8376)))||(x>0.1881\ &&x<0.1933&&y<0.8412) chrs5 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.2061,-0.8412))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.2061||(ab\ s(cabs(z+(-0.2101,-0.8412))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.2101)&&(x<0.2061||y\ >0.8412)||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.2061,-0.8288))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.2061)\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.2101,-0.8288))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.2101)&&(x>0.21\ 01||y<0.8288))||(x>0.2061&&x<0.2101&&(y<0.8252||(y>0.8448&&y<0.85)|\ |(y>0.8324&&y<0.8376))) chre6 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.2379,-0.835))-0.0124)<0.0026&&(x<0.2379||y>0\ .83413||y<0.83153)||(y>0.83413&&y<0.83933&&x>0.2255&&x<0.2503) test1 = chrP1||chrl2||chre3||chra4||chrs5||chre6&&y>0.82&&y<0.86 chri7 = x>0.08&&x<0.0852&&(y<0.7396||y>0.7448) chrm8 = x>0.0892&&x<0.0944&&y<0.74||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.09988,-0.72932)\ )-0.00808)<0.0026&&y>0.72932)||(x>0.10535&&x<0.11055&&y<0.72932)||(\ abs(cabs(z+(-0.11602,-0.72932))-0.00808)<0.0026&&y>0.72932)||(x>0.1\ 215&&x<0.1267&&y<0.72932) chrp9 = x>0.1307&&x<0.1359&&y<0.74&&y>0.695||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.1434,-\ 0.725))-0.0124)<0.0026&&x>0.1359) chrl10 = x<0.1676&&x>0.1624 chre11 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.1866,-0.725))-0.0124)<0.0026&&(x<0.1866||y>\ 0.72413||y<0.72153)||(y>0.72413&&y<0.72933&&x>0.1742&&x<0.199) chrm12 = x>0.2056&&x<0.2108&&y<0.74||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.21627,-0.72932\ ))-0.00808)<0.0026&&y>0.72932)||(x>0.22175&&x<0.22695&&y<0.72932)||\ (abs(cabs(z+(-0.23242,-0.72932))-0.00808)<0.0026&&y>0.72932)||(x>0.\ 2379&&x<0.2431&&y<0.72932) chre13 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.2621,-0.725))-0.0124)<0.0026&&(x<0.2621||y>\ 0.72413||y<0.72153)||(y>0.72413&&y<0.72933&&x>0.2497&&x<0.2745) chrn14 = x>0.2811&&x<0.2863&&y<0.74||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.29177,-0.72932\ ))-0.00808)<0.0026&&y>0.72932)||(x>0.29725&&x<0.30245&&y<0.72932) xt=1*x chrt15 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.32116,-0.72068))-0.00808)<0.0026&&y<0.72068\ ||(x>0.31049&&x<0.31569&&y>0.72068)||(x>0.30645&&x<0.32376&&y>0.734\ 8&&y<0.74) test2 = chri7||chrm8||chrl10||chre11||chrm12||chre13||chrn14||chrt1\ 5&&y>0.71||chrp9&&y<0.75 chrt16 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.64916,-0.50661))-0.00511)<0.0015&&y<0.50661\ ||(x>0.64255&&x<0.64555&&y>0.50661)||(x>0.64&&x<0.65066&&y>0.51575&\ &y<0.51875) chrh17 = x>0.65827&&x<0.66127||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.66488,-0.50937))-0.0\ 0511)<0.0015&&y>0.50937)||(x>0.66849&&x<0.67149&&y<0.50937) chre18 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.68337,-0.50937))-0.00788)<0.0015&&(x<0.6833\ 7||y>0.50888||y<0.50738)||(y>0.50888&&y<0.51187&&x>0.67549&&x<0.691\ 24) test3 = chrt16||chrh17||chre18&&y>0.5&&y<0.525 chrL19 = x<0.6552||y<0.3952&&x>0.65&&x<0.6712 chra20 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.684,-0.4112))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.684||(abs\ (cabs(z+(-0.688,-0.4112))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.688)&&y>0.4112||((abs\ (cabs(z+(-0.684,-0.3988))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x<0.684)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0\ .688,-0.3988))-0.0062)<0.0026&&x>0.688))||(x>0.684&&x<0.688&&(y<0.3\ 952||(y>0.4148&&y<0.42)||(y>0.4024&&y<0.4076)))||(x>0.6916&&x<0.696\ 8&&y<0.4112) xk=1.25*x chrk21 = x<0.706||(yxk-0.48432&&y<0.42)||(y>-xk+1.286&\ &y<-xk+1.29432&&y0.7008 chre22 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.74246,-0.405))-0.0124)<0.0026&&(x<0.74246||\ y>0.40413||y<0.40153)||(y>0.40413&&y<0.40933&&x>0.73006&&x<0.75486) test4 = chrL19||chra20||chrk21||chre22&&y>0.39&&y<0.43 chrt23 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.591,-0.35793))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y<0.35793||\ (x>0.58307&&x<0.58667&&y>0.35793)||(x>0.58&&x<0.5928&&y>0.3689&&y<0\ .3725) chrr24 = x>0.60193&&x<0.60553&&y<0.3725||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.60986,-0.3\ 6457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457) chra25 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.62732,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x<0.62732\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.63032,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x>0.63032)&&y>0\ .36598||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.62732,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x<0.6273\ 2)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.63032,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x>0.63032))||\ (x>0.62732&&x<0.63032&&(y<0.3536||(y>0.3689&&y<0.3725)||(y>0.35945&\ &y<0.36305)))||(x>0.63324&&x<0.63684&&y<0.36598) chrn26 = x>0.63984&&x<0.64344&&y<0.3725||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.64777,-0.3\ 6457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457)||(x>0.6521&&x<0.6557&&y<0.36457) chrs27 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.66523,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x<0.66523\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.66823,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x>0.66823)&&(x<\ 0.66523||y>0.36598)||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.66523,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0\ 018&&x<0.66523)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.66823,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0018&&\ x>0.66823)&&(x>0.66823||y<0.35652))||(x>0.66523&&x<0.66823&&(y<0.35\ 36||(y>0.3689&&y<0.3725)||(y>0.35945&&y<0.36305))) chrf28 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.68875,-0.37019))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.37019\ ||(x>0.68082&&x<0.68442&&y<0.37019)||(x>0.67775&&x<0.69055&&y>0.363\ 2&&y<0.3668) chro29 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.71093,-0.36125))-0.00945)<0.0018 chrr30 = x>0.72518&&x<0.72878&&y<0.3725||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.73311,-0.3\ 6457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457) chrm31 = x>0.74404&&x<0.74764&&y<0.3725||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.75198,-0.3\ 6457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457)||(x>0.75631&&x<0.75991&&y<0.3645\ 7)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.76424,-0.36457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457)||(\ x>0.76857&&x<0.77217&&y<0.36457) chra32 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.78169,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x<0.78169\ ||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.78469,-0.36598))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x>0.78469)&&y>0\ .36598||((abs(cabs(z+(-0.78169,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x<0.7816\ 9)||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.78469,-0.35652))-0.00472)<0.0018&&x>0.78469))||\ (x>0.78169&&x<0.78469&&(y<0.3536||(y>0.3689&&y<0.3725)||(y>0.35945&\ &y<0.36305)))||(x>0.78762&&x<0.79122&&y<0.36598) chrt33 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.80522,-0.35793))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y<0.35793\ ||(x>0.79728&&x<0.80088&&y>0.35793)||(x>0.79422&&x<0.80702&&y>0.368\ 9&&y<0.3725) chri34 = x>0.81615&&x<0.81975&&(y<0.3728||y>0.3764) chro35 = abs(cabs(z+(-0.834,-0.36125))-0.00945)<0.0018 chrn36 = x>0.84825&&x<0.85185&&y<0.3725||(abs(cabs(z+(-0.85618,-0.3\ 6457))-0.00613)<0.0018&&y>0.36457)||(x>0.86051&&x<0.86411&&y<0.3645\ 7) chrDT37 = y<0.3536&&x>0.86711&&x<0.87071 chrDT38 = y<0.3536&&x>0.87371&&x<0.87731 test5 = chrt23||chrr24||chra25||chrn26||chrs27||chrf28||chro29||chr\ r30||chrm31||chra32||chrt33||chri34||chro35||chrn36||chrDT37||chrDT\ 38&&y>0.35&&y<0.38 test=test1||test2||test3||test4||test5 test0=test0&&whitesq test0=((test0||test)==0) f1=fn1(imag(p3)*fn2(real(p2)*pixel)) f2=1/(imag(p2)*pixel) pixel=(test==0)*f1+test*f2 ; Import of formula 'defini50' from file DEFINIT.FRM ; MandelbrotMix4 parameters (hard-coded): ; ------------------------- vun mir GM veraennert! p_p1 = (1,-0.5) p_p2 = (50,0) p_p3 = (0.3,250) ; Function: r ; User-selectable Lake parameters: ; ------------------------------- ; real part of p2: 0 = lake transform disabled ; any value between 0 and 100: water level in % of ; the screen height (0 = bottom, 100 = top) ; imag part of p2: phase ; real part of p3: amplitude of the wave (try 0.2) ; imag part of p3: frequency (try 300) ; Lake transformation (Sylvie Gallet) ; ------------------- if (real(p_p2) > 0 && real(p_p2) <= 100) level = real(p_p2) / 100 ; water level phase = imag(p_p2) ; phase ampl = real(p_p3) ; amplitude of the wave freq = imag(p_p3) ; frequency angle = real(rotskew * pi / 180) exp_irot = exp(-flip(angle)) h = 1 / real(magxmag) w = h / 0.75 * imag(magxmag) tanskew = tan(imag(rotskew * pi / 180)) u = 2 * w * exp_irot v = 2 * h * (tanskew + flip(1)) * exp_irot z3rd = center + (-w-h*tanskew - flip(h)) * exp_irot z = pixel - z3rd b = imag(conj(u)*z) / imag(conj(u)*v) if (b <= level) dy = level - b z = z + 2*dy * (1+ampl*sin(freq*dy^0.2 + phase)) * v endif pixel = z + z3rd endif ; Modified MandelbrotMix4 formula (Jim Muth) ; ------------------------------- a = real(p1) , b = imag(p1) , d = real(p2) , f = imag(p2) g = 1/f , h = 1/d , j = 1/(f-b) , z = (-a*b*g*h)^j k = real(p3) + 1 , l = imag(p3) + 100 , c = fn1(pixel) : z = k*(a*(z^b) + d*(z^f)) + c |z| < l } Thanks to Jan Maarten v.d.Valk & Sylvie Gallet for the great FRACTEXT.EXE!! Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 17:07:00 -0600 Bobster-

Chill out and grow up.

You are being good-naturedly teased (by all, as far as I can tell) for your apparently age-related ignorance of The Grateful Dead (who cares? - certainly not them or any of their fans).

You are also being - IMHO - legitimately taken to task for your irritatingly puerile habit of subjecting others to your gratuitous commentary about subjects you not only know nothing about, but haven't even bothered to do the most basic kind of research on: going to the library. In my post, I told you exactly where in a law library you could locate the information you claim to seek.

And in your latest post you confirm that you are too lazy to educate yourself. It's one thing to be ignorant of the law - it's another to be totally unwilling to go to a law library - or to get on-line - and to read it for yourself. Even more revealing is your demand that you be spoon-fed.

Sorry, Bob, but no - I won't waste further of my time to spoon-feed you whatever it is you think you want to know about PAT and copyright law. Traynor and others tried, too, apparently to no avail.

I can only imagine what invective any further good-faith attempt to provide you a digest of relevant statutory and case law would provoke. Hence Traynor's, my own, and others' effort to point you to the references - which remain accessible to you on-line. All you have to do is to quit whining and read a recent review article in the legal literature. For some reason, you appear to be blocked here.

It shouldn't provoke feelings of inferiority, just embarrassment (having previously placed not one but both of my feet in my own mouth in front of this audience, I assure you that it is surgically correctable).

Finally, a personal request: kindly re-read my post and - for a change - do me the favor of completely and accurately quoting me: as usual, you selectively quoted my post to make yourself appear to have been unfairly attacked. You weren't.

That portion of my post you failed to quote (the very next line) stated with respect to the Grateful Dead: "I'm no fan of their music either". Either go to law school, hire an attorney, or go to the library (online or off). Don't expect people to continue to spoonfeed you when you haven't even expressed the slightest modicum of gratitude for the help you've already been given.
 

DeBow

PS - Any time you want to pay the going rate for legal consulting, let me know. Otherwise, don't expect those who have done their homework to do yours for you at no charge.
        Happy New Year.
 
 
 
 

Bob Margolis wrote:

DeBow Freed II PhD wrote:
>
> Fellow Fractaliers-
>
> Interesting that in 10 posts from one Discussant in less than 4 hours,
> we "newbies" are allegedly being "enlightened" about copyright law as
> it pertains to visual and aural art (music) by someone who admits he
> doesn't even know who The Grateful Dead are (let alone one iota of the
> law).

Why am I being criticized for not knowing The Grateful Dead? What
bearing does that have I what I've learned about copyright law? In all
that I've read about copyright law, I've never come across the name The
Grateful Dead. Would knowing about The Grateful Dead make me more
knowledgeable about copyright law?

Or don't you have better things to do than to criticize me for my lack
of knowledge regarding the rock scene?

>
> I'm no great fan of the Dead but at least know that they pioneered
> combining cover art and musical content, and maintained almost
> complete control of their "intellectual property" - and their profit
> margin - maintaining control of the entire process from neuron to Net
> by marketing and selling it themselves, in accordance with existing
> Patent and Trademark ("PAT") Law, and relevant copyright statutes
> which have governed the music industry for years.

Hooray for you, DeBow Freed II! You are so much better than I am because
of your knowledge of The Grateful Dead.

Since you see fit to put me down a notch or two, why don't you get up in
front of the class and tell us all you know about copyright law, without
telling us all the places we should go to research the topic? I'm
willing to listen. Maybe I could learn something from you since you find
yourself so superior to me.

It would be more appropriate if you tell the others what you personally
know about copyright law instead of showing them how you can make a
personal attack on. Your attacking me does nothing to show that you're
learned about copyright law.

Bob

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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Melton Voelkel" Subject: Re: (fractint) Jim Muth formulas Date: 30 Dec 2000 17:15:50 -0600 Yes. Go to Les St Clair's site. You will find a link at the bottom of the page that will take you to the page where you can download all pars and frms. There are also many other pars and frms that can be downloaded here as well. A link to his site is included below. Melton http://www.les.stclair.btinternet.co.uk/fractals/fracindex.htm - St. Clair's web site. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 3:54 PM > Is there a site or a location where I can download all of the formulas Jim > Muth has posted? > > TIA > > --Bob Carr--(Ocala, FL) > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) A smoothly colored PTC fractint image Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:45:26 -0500 Hi Ron, Nice pinwheels. Now here is a very different effect that can be obtained= from PHCs. I zoomed out a bit, rezoomed into a different area, and tweaked a different palette to get this: Pick_up_sticks { ; t=3D 0:07:3= 5.51 ; on a P233 at 1600x1200 Dec 30, 2000 16:42:26 ; Image Copyright 2000 by Lee H. Skinner ver=3D2001 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=3D2001 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Dfractint.frm formulaname=3Dmandexplayers1 passes=3D1 center-mag=3D-0.26522306514257030/+0.85440422535186790/4790.782 params=3D10000/10/0/100/128/65 float=3Dy maxiter=3D1024 inside=3D0 decomp=3D256 periodicity=3D0 cyclerange=3D0/255 colors=3DX00<32>s00s00t00<2>v00w00z99<2>yF9xG9xI9xJ8xL8<5>xU5xW5xX4xY4<= 3>x\ d4xf4xh3xi3xk3z00000yo2yq2ys20zzyv1yx1zz0zz0zy0zx0zx0<10>js1hs2gr2<2>bq= 2\ `p3Yp3<3>Mo6Jo7Fn8<3>BnCAnD9nE7nF<8>7qZ7q`7qc7re7rg6sj<8>7rs7rt7ru<2>8r= x\ 8ry8px<5>9bq9`p9Zo<3>9QjANhALh<3>BDfBBfC9eC7eC5dD2c<13>P0`Q0`R0_<3>V0_V= 0\ _W0_W0_X0_<3>_0`<9>F0GD0EB0C<3>303000000<47>X00 } Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:55:21 -0600 DeBow Freed wrote: > > Bobster- > > Chill out and grow up. > As stated in my previous posting, this is how you try to show me and others here who are interested in copyright law and fractal art how I am in wrong in what is copyrightable and what the *correct* interpretation should be. I have already provided references here to the Copyright Law of 1976 and have quoted a couple of significant paragraphs from it. If I am wrong, I can accept that. I'm not afraid one bit to admit I've been mistaken. Why can't you just come out and tell all of us what the real facts are. There are others here, as I said, who also want to know what's what. I'm sure it wouldn't take that many sentences for you to set the record straight. Instead. you tell me, "I won't waste further of my time to spoon-feed you whatever it is you think you want to know about PAT and copyright law." Providing me with a list of law tomes and telling me to research the topic is not a way to have discourse. It doesn't prove you know anything about copyright law, either, or that you even opened the books you mentioned. It's easy for you to say, "Any time you want to pay the going rate for legal consulting, let me know. Otherwise, don't expect those who have done their homework to do yours for you at no charge." But it doesn't prove you're an authority of any kind, either. You come across as telling not only me, but everyone else who may be interested in the copyrighting of fractal art and have questions to ask about it, that you're not willing to discuss the matter with us other than to provide a list of legal reference books. If you set me straight, you're setting everyone else straight at the same time. That's what discussion is about. That's one of the reasons for this *discussion* group. It's to talk about things of interest to users of FractInt. So far, your contribution to this discussion has shown your arrogance and pompousness, and an unfriendly demeanor, traits which has turned off some people toward you in the past in the Ultra Fractal discussion group. I certainly did read Mike Traynor's post, "Subject: Re: (fractint) U.S. Code pertaining to copyrights is at Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:54:24 -050. I understood fully what he talked about. It concerned my use of the word "theft." It also concerned the difference between copyright infringement and "fair use." I didn't respond to his post because I had no quarrel with what he had to say. Since then, I have not used the word "theft" in my discussions. As for the phrase "fair use," earlier today, I posted this to the fractal-art discussion group: ------------------- Re: Fair Use 2.Nature of the copyrighted work–This factor is concerned with whether the work is creative (art, music, novels, films, plays) or factual or nonfiction based, and whether it is unpublished or published. Creative works are more likely to fall under copyright protection and factual works subject to fair use. Unpublished works are less subject to fair use than published ones because of the impact on the author’s right to determine the "first public appearance" of his/her undisseminated expression. [2, p. 88] This is from http://www.umass.edu/acco/mrs/copyright.html . --------------------- So, I have done some homework, contrary to what you want people here to believe. My basic premise has always been that fractal artwork is copyrightable under provisions of copyright law, and that no one outside its creator has the right to make use of it in a public manner without obtaining consent first from its owner. I'm not talking about someone who downloads a picture or parameter file and works with it in private. I'm talking about someone who altered my artwork (by placing text over it) and then displayed it at his Web site *before* he came to me and asked me to grant him permission for what he had done. That's all the issue has really been. If I used the word "theft," then I was in error, according to Mr. Traynor's Section 506 citation and I duly note my mistake. Was Mr. Miller making "fair use" of my artwork? Not according to the already cited, "Creative works are more likely to fall under copyright protection and factual works subject to fair use." I learned from what Mr. Traynor had to say. He didn't get irate and spew venom at me in the manner in which you did. He didn't tell me to go either online or to a public library and read Section 506 in the law books. He was a gentleman in explaining what it was all about and I thank him for it. You also can learn from him in how to treat others with decency, and not resort to telling people to "chill out and grow up," after they react to your verbal attacks. Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) What is covered by copyright? Date: 31 Dec 2000 16:39:08 +1300 At 11:20 30/12/2000 -0600, Bob Margolis wrote: >"Morgan L. Owens" wrote: > > > > > > Try looking up what the law says. Copyright Act 1973, wasn't it, Bob? > > > >1976. > >Here's a handy URL that I posted Wednesday: > >http://www.umass.edu/acco/mrs/copyright.html . Oh, yes; I'd gone back to your posts of Wednesday to check that reference - guess who uses the numeric keypad to type years :-) Morgan L. Owens "With amendments through to 1999" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: reality check Date: 30 Dec 2000 19:55:27 -0800 At 10:49 AM 12/30/00 -0600, Bob wrote: >if you asked me a week ago, I would have >thought a 'deadhead" is where my letters wound up at the post office. \>:-D In truckers'/cabbies' parlance, a leg of the trip's/day's travel without cargo/passengers (and, consequently, compensation). :-) Bud P.S.: I happen to enjoy the Dead's music, as I enjoy well-executed work from various musical genres (theirs being a folk/hippie-type thing). But if you have issues with social and neurochemical experimentation, you might have problems with the subtext of the Deadhead phenomenon. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check/respect for the Dead Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:03:46 -0500 Message text written by INTERNET:fractint@lists.xmission.com >Was Mr. Miller making "fair use" of my artwork? Not according to the already cited, "Creative works are more likely to fall under copyright protection and factual works subject to fair use."< In other words, putting the fractal on the CD cover is not fair use becau= se then the fractal no longer "falls under [the] factual work" of illustrati= ng a mathematical formula. Right? Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: marcus de almeida rezende Subject: Re: (fractint) Request for Black and White Fractals Date: 31 Dec 2000 10:28:13 -0200 You can have two different ways: 1a. use map=gamma1 or map=gamma2 or map=gamma3 in "sstools.ini" 1b. draw any normal fractal. Push "c" for color and "L" to choose a color map, than chose one of those above nominated. This way you will have fractals draw only in gray tones (and black and white too). 2. push "del" to select a video mode then press F6 or F7 or F8 You will have any fractal draw in only two colors: Black and white. Good luck and a happy new year for your bigger family Marcus Rezende "Paul N. Lee" wrote: > If anybody wishes to assist and individual with a special request, then > here is what I received by email (along with a followup email allowing > it to be posted): > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Sandy Matrai wrote: > > > > What I am really seeking is Black and White imagery of > > fractals for my baby. He is 8 weeks old and I have been > > told black and white images are ideal at this age. Know > > where I might find some B&W Fractal art?? Thanks so much > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Sandy Matrai wrote: > > > > I am more than happy for you to pass my email address to > > those you think may be able to help me, so mail away! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Margolis Subject: (fractint) Re: reality check... Date: 31 Dec 2000 08:19:12 -0600 > In other words, putting the fractal on the CD cover is not fair use because > then the fractal no longer "falls under [the] factual work" of illustrating > a mathematical formula. Right? > As has been pointed out, I'm just a "shade tree lawyer." I found something that mentioned "fair use" of copyrighted material and quoted it. Since I never went to law school, I hope you don't expect me to interpret what was meant by "fair use" in the document I pointed to here. But let's look at it a different way, Collin. Let's say you loaned me your car for a brief spell. I drove it around town doing some errands, and filled it with gas before returning it to you. You would consider that "fair use" of your car, wouldn't you? Now let's say that I drove it around town, hot rodding down side streeets, driving on the neighbors' lawns, and then returned it to you with a dent in it received from hitting a garbage can. Would you consider that "fair use" of your car? Putting the copyright issue aside for sake of this discussion, here's how I would view "fair use" of my artwork. Johnny Jones likes my fractal artwork. He wants to show it at his Web site along with other fractal artworks that he likes. He displays thumbnail images of all the pretty pictures and allows the viewer to click on any image to view it at full resolution. That seems to be "fair use" of other people's artwork, doesn't it? But Jimmy Jones, Johnny's brother, also likes my artwork along with that of other people's, and he, too, wants to display them at his Web site. But, before he puts the pictures up for display, he places text atop each picture so that the underlying pictures are obscurred by the lines of text. Therefore, he's not really displaying the artwork for its loveliness; he's using it as background for his text, be it a quote from the Bible, contents of a CD, or Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. The texts become the important item, not the pictures. The pictures, then, become altered from their original states because of the added text. Would that alteration be considered "fair use" of the fractal-art pictures? I'd like to read comments on my questions without being told to comb legal tomes for the answers. I want to know what you people think, not what is opined by legal minds. This is a discussion group devoted to FractInt and its use in creating fractal art. It is not one set up for discussions amongst judges and attorneys over legal issues. BTW, all the hypothetical pictures displayed at the two imagines Web sites were created by using the not-hypothetical FractInt. :-) Bob Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Wegner Subject: (fractint) A pragmatic view of copyright Date: 31 Dec 2000 11:03:37 -0600 Bob wrote: > As has been pointed out, I'm just a "shade tree lawyer." I found > something that mentioned "fair use" of copyrighted material and quoted > it. Since I never went to law school, I hope you don't expect me to > interpret what was meant by "fair use" in the document I pointed to > here. I am jumping in to the copyright discussion with some misgivings, since it has probably already strained the patience of list members. I hope this contribution will be useful. I was involved in spearheading an effort to find a legal remedy for blatant plagiarism of fractal images in a publication. Some of the artists involved are list members. It was settled out of court, and I can't give details. We got a few thousand dollars or so (I've forgotten exactly) for each of the artists from a book publisher, but the real culprit, who put the images unchanged on the CD that came with the book, just changed his business name and disappeared scot free. We couldn't touch him because he had no assets. I learned several things. All this pseudo-legal discussion is pretty meaningless. When one gets in a real legal situation, the technical level is pretty crude. Judges, juries, and lawyers have no clue about parameters, zoom boxes, and the like. In such a situation most of the armchair opinions expressed here (not singling anyone out) are irrelevent. A case gets put together, and depending on many factors, wins or loses. It's not at all rational. You could really have had your images stolen in a way we would all agree is plagiarism and not be be able to do anything about it, or conversely, you could have used and modified images in a way we would all agree is OK, publish them in a book, and be ruined in a lawsuit. I believe we should create a climate of reasonable (but not naive) trust in our fractal subculture. The best way to do this is to credit sources profusely when modifying a PAR, and when in doub t, ask permission. If you really want to publish images in a for-pay setting, my advice would be modify EVERYTHING. Change the formula, the colors, the zoom box, the options, so no one could possibly claim the image is theirs. It's actually easy to do this, and to make the image truly yours. That is why the case I was involved with was so weird. The guy ONLY changed the names of the images. He even left them sorted on the CD so that the images (with his new names) were grouped so all the images stolen from the same artist were sorted together! He didn't even bother to change any parameters or any color palette. Because of this the publisher (who was really an innocent victim) ended up paying us some money. I doubt the culprit did any more business with that publisher or book author, but he may well have sold more stolen images to someone else. Even though we "won", I can't say justice was done. I personally enjoy the creative frenzy of artists making images and modifying each other's works and republishing PARs. I hope this continues. But I understand when artists say they won't publish the parameters for their best images. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" Subject: (fractint) A New Topic Date: 31 Dec 2000 23:53:07 +0500 I've been following the discussion of copyright with great interest. Maybe it's not over yet, but here's a totally different thread. My main area of fractal exploration over the last 2 years has been L-systems, those linear, usually monochrome types. Most of my work I've yet to post to Fractint or elsewhere. I've checked out the website for the Fractal-Art 2000 Contest and was impressed indeed. One addition I'd like to suggest would be a separate category for L-systems (and maybe one for IFS types as well); these may be better judged on their own rather than against the more "spectacular" types with their delicate colours and possible layers. What do people think? Tony Hanmer _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) A New Topic Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:42:33 -0800 At 11:53 PM 12/31/00 +0500, Tony wrote: >... >I've checked out the website for the Fractal-Art 2000 Contest and was >impressed indeed. Have I missed something? I have been waiting for the test (view only) release, but every time I go to the site I get referred to the same page leading to the "Enter" and "Order CD" sections which still indicate that nothing is ready. I should note two things: 1) my e-mail was out from Dec 3 to Dec 10, and 2) I am not running Java. Bud Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) A New Topic Date: 31 Dec 2000 19:16:55 -0500 I've always been fascinated by quadric Koch curves (which are a type of L-system). Unlike Mandelbrot, who chose ones that do not self-intersect, = I choose ones that do. I color each point by the number of times and direction that the curve rotates around it. (This can be done quite simpl= y with a technique similar to flood-filling.) In some cases this produces very intricate and fascinating patterns. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "knife31a@micron.net" Subject: (fractint) Color Cycling Date: 31 Dec 2000 17:51:07 -0700 I have a Micron Millenium PII 400, and every time I try to color cycle it goes at warp speed. Can anyone help? Randy Hoffmaster Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ron Barnett Subject: RE: (fractint) A smoothly colored PTC fractint image Date: 31 Dec 2000 20:57:00 -0500 Hi Lee, Its good to hear from you again. Your variant has some very interesting looking lattice work. Here is another smooth one using the same formula. SummerGarden { ; Copyright Ron Barnett Dec 2000 t= 0:02:04.20 ; www.hiddendimension.com fractals@hiddendimension.com ; On a Pentium III(667) at 1280 x 1024 ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=rebexp01.frm formulaname=MandExpLayers1 passes=1 center-mag=-1.74527350594931300/+0.00333036955515027/20061.09/1/-87.499 params=10000/10/0/500/64/194 float=y maxiter=1024 inside=0 decomp=256 periodicity=0 cyclerange=0/255 sound=off colors=ssn<3>VVUPPPJJK<2>004<20>00D00E00E00E00F<20>00q00r00t00v00x00z<23\ >KizLkzLmz<2>OszPuzOty<24>5KY5IX4HW<3>1BR09P19Q<8>FHbGIcIJe<2>MMiONkQPk<\ 8>kktmmuppv<2>wwyzzzzwx<8>zOazK_zGX<3>z0N<3>m2Kj2Jh3I<7>M8CJ8BG9A<3>4B7<\ 3>8KD9MEAOF<3>EXLCYLA_K<8>eohhpklrn<3>zyyzzz<13>wwJvvGvvD<3>uu0<15>yys } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Cycling Date: 01 Jan 2000 16:41:19 +1300 At 17:51 31/12/2000 -0700, Randy Hoffmaster wrote: >I have a Micron Millenium PII 400, and every time I try to color cycle it >goes at warp speed. Can anyone help? There are two or three ways you can alter the speed of colour cycling. 1) The one that is least likely to be useful is to note that hitting '1' .. '9' while cycling will cause Fractint to "skip" frames. '2' will cause Fractint to display only every second frame in a cycle, '3' every third, and so on. The default is '1' (show every frame), and is already the slowest of these options. 2) While cycling, hitting the () key will slow down () the frame rate at which Fractint runs. If your cycling is going way too fast, try holding down to tell Fractint "slower ... slower ... a bit slower still ...". 3) You don't want to do (2) every time - or at least, you oughtn't need to. If, in your Fractint directory you have an 'sstools.ini' file, you can add the following line to the [Fractint] section. If you don't have such a file, it's just a text file where the first line is "[Fractint]". The line for adjusting the speed of colour cycling is: CYCLELIMIT = nnn where nnn is a number between 1 and 256. The default is 55, lower numbers make for slower cycling. Morgan L. Owens "Ooh, my hangover's making me regret helping..." Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Multiple Bogeys" Subject: Re: (fractint) A pragmatic view of copyright Date: 31 Dec 2000 23:29:36 -0500 >I am jumping in to the copyright discussion with some misgivings, >since it has probably already strained the patience of list members. Try "folded, spindled, and mutilated". ObCopyright: CMIIW, but doesn't putting an image you created on a Web site grant an implied license to duplicate it? After all, files placed on Web sites are copied by routers and other automated stuff when someone downloads them to view the page; they may also be duplicated into caches, at ISPs, at various routing nodes, or on the machine from which the site is being browsed... Caching suggests there must also be an implied license to redistribute it! (Of course, one issue that has surfaced was that Bob's image was *modified*, which is another kettle of fish altogether...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Barry N. Merenoff" <110144.2274@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) A pragmatic view of copyright Date: 01 Jan 2000 01:24:39 -0500 Dear Multiple, The real issue that Bob found fault with was that Mr. Miller had taken his fractals out of the hobby and put them to a purpose that no longer inspired mathematical creativity. He felt that, by using his fractals in a non-mathematical way, Mr. Miller had trivialized the work h= e had done in obtaining beauty from the formulas. What you have to understand is that being able to express yoursel= f rationally despite anger is a rare gift; one that Bob doesn't have. He probably didn't even realize that copyright law wasn't what he was really= upset about. Sincerely, Collin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint"