From: "Zorba the Hutt" Subject: Re: (fractint) No hard feelings Date: 01 May 2001 03:26:32 -0400 > >Zorba generated the hi-res images with UF instead of > >Fractint - they appeared differently (having a different texture)than > >Sylvie originally generated - and so she had them removed mainly for that > >reason - they were no longer her images, and so Zorba's saying that they > >were her images was inaccurate. Had he generated them with Fractint, she > >may have approved, assuming that her permission was obtained first. > > Why ask for permission? The images were different and "no longer her images"! > Zorba gave acknowledgement that the .par files had been produced by Sylvie > but he *did* feel that it was the right thing to delete them. I really don't want > to put Zorba on the spot over this, so Zorba, if you're listening I'm not asking > you to reply! I just don't understand; but then I'm probably being thick! I'm listening, and I don't mind replying :) Here's my basic take on it - I have a very liberal idea of open information. For example, IMHO the GPL license is TOO RESTRICTIVE because it forces any derivative libraries or anything that makes use of it to be GPL as well. Even LGPL is stretching things. The license I personally use for writing software is, as far as I know, called the libpng/zlib license, and basically comes down to "this is ours. Don't claim it's yours. Beyond that, though, go for it! It'd be nice if you mentioned us when you make ten billion dollars off it, but, hey, no worries." So now you know where I'm coming from :) Now, as for why ask permission/remove on request, it's because I didn't make those .par files. Sylvie Gallet did. And she might not (and clearly doesn't, actually) agree with my views. I don't feel right imposing my views on others, though due to the nature of the Internet doing such things would be basically unstoppable (yeah, I've got your images on a server in Russia. And I claim they're mine, too. Whatcha gonna do about it?). If anything, that makes it *worse*, because I don't have any measure of how much you care (since you really *wouldn't* be able to do anything about it.) So, yes, it might be my CPU cycles, it might be my time spent, it might even be my slight modifications, as I had to shift the viewport slightly to accomodate a different aspect ratio without stretching. But the base images were Sylvie's, and I don't feel right to put them up there if she doesn't want them up. Now, there *is* a point at which I say something like "well, tough", and that's when it's essentially no longer the creator's creation. For example, putting me in Sylvie's place, if Jim Muth had said "no, I don't want you using my original fractal to work off of" (remember, the fractals of Sylvie's in question were further explorations of one of the FOTD) I would have said something along the lines of "well, I respect that you might want them removed, but these aren't even remotely similar to yours and are only based off a mathematical formula that you happen to have discovered a particular permutation of. I'll happily give you credit, and I'm not going to make any money off them, but they're *my* art and I'll put them up if I want." So there you have it. This might also explain why the "oh, by the way, do you mind?" was tacked on to the original posting of mine - it's because it really didn't occur to me up until just before I hit "send" that she *might*. I mean, it's fanart, really - my CPU cycles and webspace (okay, Geocities's webspace) devoted to her work :) Anyway. On a slightly different note, it's pretty unlikely that I'll do the re-rendering with Fractint, for multiple reasons - no built-in antialiasing, for example, and it multitasks pretty badly with Windows. If I can figure out how to duplicate the exact images in Ultrafractal (I haven't even gone back to see the differences yet, actually) I might try, but considering that one complaint was the color banding (which I can't imagine how it could possibly be *worse* on UF than Fractint) and the antialiasing (which I consider totally incomprehensible from an artistic standpoint - if anything, it makes it *more* detailed, IMHO, but, hey, some people like abstract art too, so who am I to judge?) it's not very high on my list. Anyway, I'm curious about any replies people might have - if you don't want to spam the list with an age-old question, I'll cheerfully take private comments also. -Zorba (oh, and sorry for the delay, was out of town for an anime convention :D ) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zorba the Hutt" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 01 May 2001 03:30:40 -0400 > I am not an Ultra Fractal user, but doesn't it generate par files of > true-color images? (Perhaps some UF user could shed light on how this > might be implemented.) I'm not a UF expert by any means, but as I understand it UF bases its color maps off of curves - for example, you'd say "position 0 is rgb(0, 0, 0), position 128 is rgb(255, 255, 255), position 255 is rgb(0, 0, 0)", and it interpolates from there. UF can actually load Fractint pars, and it snags all the color values and sets them. I can't remember what it does from there - I *think* it discards redundant entries (i.e. "0 is (0, 0, 0), 1 is (1, 1, 1), 2 is (2, 2, 2)" - why not get rid of 1?) but I could be misremembering. IMHO, UF's method isn't even close to ideal, but it works, and I can't think of anything better right now :) -Zorba Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Linux Fractint Date: 30 Apr 2001 22:45:03 -1000 Where'd you get Fractint for Linux? Would love to see how it goes on my 700MHz Duron box ... David gnome@hawaii.rr.com On 30 Apr 01 at 14:50, Andrew Coppin wrote: > I don't know who did the Linux Fractint post, but HATS > OFF TO THEM! > > Yesterday, after wanting to have a Linux Fractint for > AGES, I got someone to download the source for me. I let > him compile it, thinking it would be a nightmare. The > guy typed "make", half a million lines of text flew > past, and an executable appeared. He executed it, and it > just worked. > > I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it for > myself! > > BTW, this was on an Athlon 1GHz machine. Once I reached > arbitary precition mode, it was *still* rapping off 2 > lines per second! Man, I *want* his machine!!! > > Once again, a big thanks to whoever it was who made this > thing! > > Thanks. > Andrew. > > ________________________________________________________ > _________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN > Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and > Fractint Discussion List Post Message: > fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: > majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: > twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: > majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Re: (fractint) Linux Fractint Date: 01 May 2001 07:30:36 -0500 David, Xfractint is available at the usual locations: The main Fractint website: http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html The Fractint DevelopmentTeam homepage: http://www.fractint.org and I offer a precompiled binary package of Xfractint 20.1.04 at my Website: http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/xfractint/xfractint.html On Tuesday 01 May 2001 03:45, David Jones wrote: > Where'd you get Fractint for Linux? Would love to see how > it goes on my 700MHz Duron box ... > Scott Boyd -- sdboyd56@swbell.net http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/ I always wanted to be a procrastinator, but I never got around to it. -- Unknown Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) Linux Fractint Date: 01 May 2001 14:05:29 -0000 The best part is that I can now *finally* run Fractint on my Amiga... Well, I can assuming 1) I can fix my floppy drive and 2) it compiles there as easily as it did on my associate's PC... Thanks. Andrew. PS. Maybe I'll wander though the source code some time... >From: "Scott D. Boyd" >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: (fractint) Linux Fractint >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 07:30:36 -0500 > >David, > >Xfractint is available at the usual locations: > >The main Fractint website: >http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html > >The Fractint DevelopmentTeam homepage: http://www.fractint.org > >and I offer a precompiled binary package of Xfractint 20.1.04 at my >Website: http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/xfractint/xfractint.html > >On Tuesday 01 May 2001 03:45, David Jones wrote: > > Where'd you get Fractint for Linux? Would love to see how > > it goes on my 700MHz Duron box ... > > >Scott Boyd >-- >sdboyd56@swbell.net >http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/ >--------------------------------------- >I always wanted to be a procrastinator, >but I never got around to it. > -- Unknown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 18-04-01 (Fractured Fractal [6]) Date: 01 May 2001 14:08:28 -0000 >From: "Morgan L. Owens" >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >To: fractint@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 18-04-01 (Fractured Fractal [6]) >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:07:15 +1200 > >At 23:51 25/04/2001, Andrew Coppin wrote: > >>PS. Hey Morgan... What the hell _are_ "sheets in the Riemann surface"? > >One of the hassles involved with many functions is that they are many- >valued (and hence, strictly speaking, not functions at all). I have another even more technical question... How do you pronounce "Riemann"?!?! Thanks. Andrew. Random Though of the Day: average(x, y, z) = (x+y+z)/3. What happens if you use average(x, y, z) = (x*y*z)^(1/3)? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Acknowledgments due? Date: 30 Apr 2001 09:05:32 -0400 Hi Chris, >> Poor old, (young), Zorba the Hutt who spent hours generating high resolution versions of fractals to delight others with slower machines, i= s then shamed into deleting them because they are the 'property' of the esteemed Sylvie Gallet, (may her .map files continue to delight us all). = << Fractint and Ultra Fractal do not always generate identical images from t= he same par file. In this case, Sylvie generated the images with Fractint an= d posted Fractint pars. Zorba generated the hi-res images with UF instead = of Fractint - they appeared differently (having a different texture)than Sylvie originally generated - and so she had them removed mainly for that= reason - they were no longer her images, and so Zorba's saying that they were her images was inaccurate. Had he generated them with Fractint, she= may have approved, assuming that her permission was obtained first. I don't think Zorba was aware of the differences when he posted them. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 22-04-01 (Minibrot with Aura [7]) Date: 01 May 2001 12:19:11 -0500 Jim Muth wrote: > If I can find a trashy enough old sci-fi movie to watch, the day will > be complete. Ever seen ZARDOZ ?? -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 01 May 2001 12:29:11 -0500 Jim Muth philosophized: > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. The problem is that > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating too fast to be caused > by the gravity created by the visible matter of the galaxies. To > account for this discrepancy, astronomers have hypothesized that > the galaxies are filled with large amounts of undetectable > material they have named dark matter, and this unseen material > is causing the excess gravitational acceleration. But this > explanation is not satisfactory, since if the matter cannot be > detected, it will be most difficult if not impossible to confirm > its existence. Just a note: we can't detect it only because it does not emit light that we can see. Dark matter *could* just be ordinary, cold matter, and we would never be able to see it...from earth. If we can ever get out into the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have no problem detecting it. > ...and this is to assume that, like so many other natural phenomena, > the Newtonian law of gravity is valid only within a limited range,... This is already known, established fact. For example, Newton's laws cannot quite account for the orbit of Mercury. You need to use Albert's GR (General Relativity) laws to precisely figure the orbit. This is because of the gravitational force from the nearby sun! So we *know* Newton is a 'special case' version of the full laws of motion. On the other hand, a great deal of modern physics is based on the fact (or more properly, assumption) that the laws of the universe are true throughout the universe. This assumption has been explored in a variety of ways, and largely seems to be taken as fact. But who knows what really lies across the dark void, eh? > Since this alternate explanation is so obvious, it must have > already been thought of by many astronomers, and probably > discarded because it contains a fatal flaw. 'Fraid so. ;-( -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 01 May 2001 12:32:49 -0500 Jonathan Osuch wrote: >> Given that you've GOT an image and that free PNG libraries exist, I'm >> curious why you can't save a t/c image? > > Memory. Because of the memory model we are using (medium), we can't fit > the PNG libraries into Fractint. Wow! You ARE up against the limit!! Wonder if it'd be worthwhile having the program start some sort of separate "image server" process you could hand off the t/c image to for saving? It could be a quick fix way to implement saving.... [shrug] But whaddo I know about the intricacies of FractInt. -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 22-04-01 Date: 01 May 2001 15:04:57 -0400 (EDT) At 12:19 PM 5/1/01 -0500, Programmer D. wrote: >Jim Muth wrote: > >> If I can find a trashy enough old sci-fi movie to watch, the day will >> be complete. > >Ever seen ZARDOZ ?? Yes! wiZARDofOZ is one of my favorites. I play it at least once a month. It's plenty trashy. Rambling story, flying heads, men in diapers, topless women -- it has everything. And Beethoven's 7th, the second movement of which serves as the main theme music, is one of my favorite symphonies. I also have spotted many fractal-like figures in the background, though I believe the film was produced before the awareness of fractals became widespread. BTW, have you ever seen the 1970 Soviet production of SOLARIS? Jim M. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Coppin" Subject: (fractint) Linux Fractint Date: 30 Apr 2001 14:50:31 -0000 I don't know who did the Linux Fractint post, but HATS OFF TO THEM! Yesterday, after wanting to have a Linux Fractint for AGES, I got someone to download the source for me. I let him compile it, thinking it would be a nightmare. The guy typed "make", half a million lines of text flew past, and an executable appeared. He executed it, and it just worked. I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself! BTW, this was on an Athlon 1GHz machine. Once I reached arbitary precition mode, it was *still* rapping off 2 lines per second! Man, I *want* his machine!!! Once again, a big thanks to whoever it was who made this thing! Thanks. Andrew. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 30-04-01 (A Ghostly Spectre [4]) Date: 30 Apr 2001 10:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Classic FOTD -- April 30, 2001 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Today's hasty fractal was created by the formula 2Z^(-2.1)-2Z^(-1.9)+(1/C). I named it "A Ghostly Spectre" when I noticed that the seahorse-like detail surrounding the midget is clearly visible only when certain broad color palettes are applied to the image. With a narrow color scheme such as F2, the detail vanishes and the image becomes a featureless screen full of fractal sand. The location of today's image is in an elephant trunk in the East Valley area of a larger midget, which is resting in a chaotic part of the parent fractal. I rated the image at a 4. This is all I could give to a fractal that I found and colored with so little effort. With a running time of exactly 15 minutes, the parameter file might not be the best way of viewing the image, which will be available for download and viewing in an hour or so at: and at: One of these days when things settle down, I'm going to gain convenient access to ABPF, and resume posting the images there. But so far I haven't had the chance to recover from the move of Fractal Central auxiliary. With sunny skies and a temperature of 68F (20C), the fractal weather today was so good that I took the day off. When I returned, the cats scolded me for not being there to let them out to enjoy the fine weather. To soothe them, I gave them a treat of tuna and promised to do better next time. And speaking of next time, it will come in about 13 hours. Until then, take care, and watch out for those fractal ghosts. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ A_Ghostly_Spectre { ; time=0:15:00.01--SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=recip passes=1 center-mag=+1.584484530091595/+1.150509782717139/7\ 774320/1/132.5 params=1/-2.1/-1/-1.9/1/300 float=y maxiter=1800 inside=0 logmap=205 periodicity=10 colors=000i_zg_zg_zfYzfYzdYzdYzbWzbWzbWzaWzaVz_Vz_\ VzYVzYTzXTzXTzSRzVTzVTzXTzXVzXVzYVzYVz_Wz_Wz_WzaWz\ aYzbYzbYzbYzd_zd_zf_zf_zf`zg`zg`zi`zibzibzkbzkbzlc\ zlczlczncznfznfzpfzphzqhzqhzqhzsizsizuizuizukzwkzw\ kzxkzxnzxnzznzzozzpzzpzzqzzqzzszztzztzztzzwzzwzzwz\ zxzzyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzxzzxzzvzzuzztzzszzpzzpzzpzzpzzn\ zxnzxnzwnxumwumwsmusmsqksqkqpjpshsqfqpdpnbplank`ni\ _lgZlfYkdXkbWiaVi_UgYTgXSfVRfSQdRPbPObONaMMaKL_JK_\ JJYHIYFHXEGXCFVAEV8DS7CS6BR4AP29P18O07O07M07M07K07\ K07J07J07H07H07F07H07F07F07F07F07E07E07E05E07C07C0\ 7C07C17C47A68A68A7BA8B8AD8CE8EE8FF7FF7HC7JE7KE7MG6\ OG6PH6RK6RL4SO4VQ4XR4YU1_V1aY1b_1b`1db0fb0gc0if0kf\ 0lh0lh0ni0pk0qk0sm0um0wn0xp0xp0zr0zr0zs0zu0zu0zw0z\ w0zx0zx0zx0zx0zx0zx0zx0zz0zz1zz1zz4zz4zz6zz6zz7zz7\ zz8zz8zzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzz\ AzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzAzzA } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 30 Apr 2001 09:05:33 -0400 Jonathan, >> Fractint version 20.1.08 is now available at the developer's web site.= >> Features in this patch: >> Added truecolor support to Fractint thanks to Bert Tyler. = I presume that there is no way to save a true-color par file yet either. Is there any mechanism yet for manipulating the true colors? Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 30 Apr 2001 09:05:33 -0400 Jonathan, >> Fractint version 20.1.08 is now available at the developer's web site.= >> Features in this patch: >> Added truecolor support to Fractint thanks to Bert Tyler. = I presume that there is no way to save a true-color par file yet either. Is there any mechanism yet for manipulating the true colors? Lee Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo M. Forno" Subject: RE: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 18-04-01 (Fractured Fractal [6]) Date: 01 May 2001 19:34:08 -0300 It is pronounced Reemahn. About averages: (x*y*z) ^(1/3) averages by the logarithms. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:08 AM > >From: "Morgan L. Owens" > >Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com > >To: fractint@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 18-04-01 (Fractured Fractal [6]) > >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 17:07:15 +1200 > > > >At 23:51 25/04/2001, Andrew Coppin wrote: > > > >>PS. Hey Morgan... What the hell _are_ "sheets in the Riemann surface"? > > > >One of the hassles involved with many functions is that they are many- > >valued (and hence, strictly speaking, not functions at all). > > I have another even more technical question... How do you pronounce > "Riemann"?!?! > > Thanks. > Andrew. > > Random Though of the Day: average(x, y, z) = (x+y+z)/3. What happens if you > use average(x, y, z) = (x*y*z)^(1/3)? > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kathy Roth Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 01 May 2001 17:57:15 -0700 Programmer Dude wrote: > > Jim Muth philosophized: > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. The problem is that > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating too fast to be caused ...................... > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it does not emit light that > we can see. Dark matter *could* just be ordinary, cold matter, and we > would never be able to see it...from earth. If we can ever get out into > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have no problem detecting it. > Aren't we IN the universe? Kathy Roth Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 01 May 2001 20:47:06 -0500 Shocking, iconoclastic suggestion. The Clintonian answer is :"it depends on who/what/where/when "we" be(is). Kathy Roth wrote: > Programmer Dude wrote: > > > > Jim Muth philosophized: > > > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. The problem is that > > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating too fast to be caused > ...................... > > > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it does not emit light that > > we can see. Dark matter *could* just be ordinary, cold matter, and we > > would never be able to see it...from earth. If we can ever get out into > > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have no problem detecting it. > > > > Aren't we IN the universe? > Kathy Roth > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lee Skinner Subject: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 01 May 2001 21:47:21 -0400 More duplicate messages from previous days are coming across again! Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 02-05-01 (Heads Up Mister Midget [7]) Date: 01 May 2001 22:55:28 -0400 (EDT) Classic FOTD -- May 02, 2001 (Rating 7) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: I rated today's image a 7 because of how well the colors turned out. Although it has only 256 colors, the bands are almost invisible, resulting in a GIF image as close to the appearance of true-color as one is likely to see. I named the picture "Heads Up Mister Midget" when I noticed that the sqrt(3) midget looks almost like a quadratic midget with its nose in the air. For today's image I once again chose the new MandelbrotBC1 formula and calculated the fractal produced by the square root of 3. But this time I set the function to , which unlike the and functions, draws images different from those drawn by the function. The parent of today's image is a Mandeloid shaped almost exactly like the midget in yesterday's "Decorative" FOTD. Today's midget, which is shaped exactly like its parent, lies rather deep in a seahorse tail in the Seahorse Valley area of its parent. The branch-cut discontinuities are quite pronounced in this image, making me wish that some way of eliminating them existed. But of course, the breaks are an unavoidable part of fractals with fractional exponents. After several of very fast parameter files, today's is a slow one, taking over 19 minutes to render on a 200mhz Pentium. For those who cannot spare the computer time, the GIF file of the rendered image will be available in an hour or so on the Web at: and at: The fractal weather today was absolutely perfect. The warm sun, cloudless sky, and temperature of 83F (28C) lured the cats into the yard for a full day of enjoyment. They saw no fox, though a raccoon barely escaped detection. And now I once again see that it's time to shut down the olde fractal shoppe and call this day ended but for the wind-down. I'll return in 24 hours however. Until then, take care, and I hear that an apple used to be known as a napple. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Heads_Up_Mr_Midget { ; time=0:19:07.17--SF5 on a p200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=branchct.frm formulaname=mandelbrotbc1 function=ceil passes=1 center-mag=+0.73481980084589390/+0.136649099636705\ 70/1.795448e+007/1/-172.499 params=1.73205080807569/0/0/0 float=y maxiter=25000 inside=0 logmap=411 periodicity=10 colors=000YbMZdN_fO`hPbjQclRdnScoSepSfpShqSiqSkqSl\ rSmrSorSpsSrsSssSusSvsSyrUwsSusQssOqsNosLmsJlsIjsG\ hsEfsDdsBbs9ar8`q9`p9_oA_mA_kBZiBZgCYeCYcDYaDX_EXY\ EWWFXVFYU4ZUF_SR`SPaRObRMcQLdQKePIgPHhOGjOElODnPBp\ QAqR9sS7uT6wT2vU5vW8vYBv_DubGudJugMuiOtlRtnUtqXtsY\ tsZtsZts_ts_ts`ts`tsatsatsbtsbtsctsctqcmpdfme_jfTg\ gMehGeiLfkPhlTkmXmnappesqitrmutfum`qiVlcPhWIdMC_G6\ W90S3jzcfvecrf_ngXjiUgjQckN`mJXnGUoCSpDQpDOmEMjEJf\ EHcFE`FBXG9UG6RC0KG4OK8ROCURGXVK`ZOcaSfeYiicmlhppm\ stpvwrywtuwrrwpownlwliwjfwhcwf`weYwdVwcSwcPrdTmdXh\ d`cdd_dgVdkQdoLdsIfzHdvHcsGaoGblFchFeeEgbEiZDkWDmS\ CmPCmLBmI1mGBmFLmFVmE_m0dmESmRFmd1mt2mq2mo2ml3mj3m\ h3me4mc4m`4mZ5oX5qU5sS6uP6wN6yL8zI9zFAzCBz9Ez8Hz8J\ z8Mz8Oz7Rz7Uz7Wz7Zz6`z6cz6fz6hz5kz5mz5pz5sz4uz4xz4\ zz4zz6zz8zzAzzCzzEzzFzzHzzJzzLzzNzzOzzQzzSzzUzzWzz\ XyzWxzWQzGRzHTzIUzJVzKWzL } frm:MandelbrotBC1 { ; by several Fractint users e=p1, a=imag(p2)+100 p=real(p2)+PI q=2*PI*fn1(p/(2*PI)) r=real(p2)-q Z=C=Pixel: Z=log(Z) IF(imag(Z)>r) Z=Z+flip(2*PI) ENDIF Z=exp(e*(Z+flip(q)))+C |Z| Subject: Re: (fractint) Linux Fractint Date: 01 May 2001 22:36:48 -1000 Thanks, I look forward to it! 8-) David gnome@hawaii.rr.com On 1 May 01 at 7:30, Scott D. Boyd wrote: > and I offer a precompiled binary package of Xfractint > 20.1.04 at my Website: > http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/xfractint/xfractint.htm > l Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 02 May 2001 09:26:33 -0500 Kathy Roth wrote: > Programmer Dude wrote: >> Jim Muth philosophized: >> >>> ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. >> >> Dark matter *could* just be ordinary, cold matter, and we >> would never be able to see it...from earth. If we can ever >> get out into the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably >> have no problem detecting it. > > Aren't we IN the universe? [grin] Touche! (But not OUT inTO [deep space]...) -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint version 20.1.08 Date: 02 May 2001 09:29:02 -0500 Lee Skinner wrote: > More duplicate messages from previous days are coming across again! Say what? Lee Skinner wrote: > More duplicate messages from previous days are coming across again! Say what? -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Covey" Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 02 May 2001 07:44:04 -0700 (PDT) --- Programmer Dude wrote: > This is already known, established fact. For > example, Newton's laws > cannot quite account for the orbit of Mercury. You > need to use Albert's > GR (General Relativity) laws to precisely figure the > orbit. This is > because of the gravitational force from the nearby > sun! > > So we *know* Newton is a 'special case' version of > the full laws of > motion. > Actually, the perihelion advance formula for the orbit of Mercury can be derived from classical, flat-space-time principles in a manner that is far simpler than Einstein's own derivation. This discovery completes an alternative interpretation for all GR's major effects. So the question is, "What the heck use is GR anyway?" Jim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Curnow" Subject: (fractint) Thanks for the input Date: 02 May 2001 19:22:22 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0D33D.363FF1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Enough said. =20 Thanks for all the responses about the 'ownership' issue. I'm still not = convinced but that's OK. I'm going back to writing a really stunning = .map=20 file generator; should get it done just in time for Version 21 when we=20 won't need one any more! Cheers, Chris ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0D33D.363FF1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Enough said.  =
 
Thanks for all the responses = about the=20 'ownership' issue.  I'm still not
convinced but that's = OK.  I'm going=20 back to writing a really stunning .map
file generator; should get it = done just=20 in time for Version 21 when we
won't need one any = more!
 
Cheers,
Chris
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0D33D.363FF1C0-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan L. Owens" Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 03 May 2001 12:26:16 +1200 At 02:44 03/05/2001, J. Covey wrote: >So the question is, "What the heck use is GR anyway?" Who knows? Making accurate use of GPS timing signals, perhaps? Morgan L. Owens "It's like reality, but over there!" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) evolver bug? Date: 02 May 2001 20:51:54 -0500 Guy, > in an .frm working with 4 functions (fn1-fn4) I need to play with fn1-fn3 > but not with fn4. Fn4 is set to 'sinh' and has to stay so. Starting the > Evolver with the 'fn4=no' option (but set to 'sinh' in the Z-screen) all > the pictures are generated with 'fn4=sin' except the first one.. I found the problem. We're trying to put a two byte value into a one byte space. As long as all the functions are getting evolved, the error doesn't show up. This is because the zero entered into the second byte gets overwritten by the value for the next function. I'll need to dig into the code some more to see if this affects the history routine and saved images. The fix will be in my next patch. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 Apr 2001 19:25:00 -0700 At 07:44 AM 5/2/01 -0700, Jim Covey wrote: >... >Actually, the perihelion advance formula for the orbit >of Mercury can be derived from classical, >flat-space-time principles in a manner that is far >simpler than Einstein's own derivation. This discovery >completes an alternative interpretation for all GR's >major effects. I would like to hear more about this! (Maybe off-list.) >So the question is, "What the heck use is GR anyway?" It would, among a great many other things, tell us how to generate the only physical force we currently can't (gravitation). Unfortunately the fact that physicists have built huge particle accelerators and don't have the answers suggests that the energies, and consequently the scale of hardware required, may prove too large to be of any practical use. We can only hope that God (or dumb luck, depending on your beliefs) permits a shortcut somehow. Otherwise we can forget our Sci-Fi dreams of gravitational propulsion, force fields, and artificial gravity :-( ... and "flying discs" ;-) Bud Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Christenson Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 Apr 2001 20:38:40 -0700 At 07:25 PM 4/4/01 -0700, I wrote: >At 07:44 AM 5/2/01 -0700, Jim Covey wrote: >>... >>So the question is, "What the heck use is GR anyway?" > >It would, among a great many other things, tell us how >to generate the only physical force we currently can't >(gravitation). >... Man, did I go off course. Thought you were talking GUT... Sorry... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 03-05-01 (Seahorse Minibrot [5]) Date: 03 May 2001 00:26:40 EDT Classic FOTD -- May 03, 2001 (Rating 5) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: All too often we forget the most basic of all fractals, the classic Mandelbrot set. We cast it aside with an attitude that everything of interest in the set has already been worked to death. Even I, a conservative fractal purist, tend to overlook the faithful old M-set, with its infinite nooks and crannies. Well, today, for at least one day, I have corrected my oversight by exploring the best-known area of the M-set -- Seahorse Valley. True, I did venture rather deep into the valley to find today's midget, but not so deep as to need arbitrary precision math. The midget at the center is shaped unusually perfect, unlike many midgets in Seahorse Valley, which, along with the midgets in East Valley, are some of the most distorted in the entire M-set. The midget is located on the filament of a bud, where the filament merges with one of the triple bottomless pits that characterize the deep Mandelbrot valleys. I named the image "Seahorse Minibrot" in recognition of the fact that the scene lies in Seahorse Valley. I rated it a perfectly average 5, admitting that this area has already been thoroughly explored. Lying so deep in Seahorse Valley, the image has an unusually high maxiter, which results in a render time from the parameter file of over 28 minutes. A better way to view the image is to give Paul and Scott a chance to render and post the GIF file to their web sites at: and at: and download the image from there. The fractal weather today was like mid-summer, with clear skies, hot sun, and a temperature of 86F (30C). The fractal cats spent over an hour outdoors, but when they returned, they complained that it was too hot. That's it for now. The philosophy is still building, and may soon burst forth in its full glory. But philosophy or not, I'll return tomorrow with another fractal and more fractal talk. Until then, take care, and be of stout heart but slim body. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START PARAMETER FILE======================================= Seahorse_Minibrot { ; time=0:28:38.08--SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=mandel passes=1 center-mag=-0.74997725991656570/+0.00836815652421319\ /3.939857e+008/1/-52.5 params=0/0 float=y maxiter=500000 inside=0 logmap=-17500 periodicity=10 colors=00009008404802D01G00L00O00V00_60dE0iN0nX0sd0x\ l0zt0zz0zw0zq1zl9zgJzbTzXazRkzVtzfzzrzzjzzdzzUnxKVtK\ DmG0mI0mJ0mJ0mL0mL0mN0mOAmOKmQRmQRmRRkTRgTRdVRaVR_XR\ XYRTYRQ_RN_RLbTOdVQgXTiYVl_Yna_pbasddtffxgizikzknzlp\ znqzptzqwzszztzztzzwzzxzzzxwzwqztlzsgzqbzqYzpTznOzlJ\ zkEzi9zg4zg8zf9zdBzbDzbEzaGz_IzYJzYLzXOzVQzTRzTTzRVz\ QXzOYzO_zNazLbzLazQazV_zY_zbYzgXzkXzpVztRzzTzzVzxXzp\ XzgYz__zR_zJazBbz2_z0bz0fz0gz0kz2nz4pz6sz8wzBxzDzzEz\ zIzzJzzLzzOzzNzzNzzNzzNxzNtzNqzNlzNizNdzLazLXzLTzLQz\ LLzLIzLDzL9zL8zI6zL6zN6zO6zQ6zR6zT6zV6zY6z_6za6zb6zd\ 6zf6zg4zf6zi6zk6zl6zn6zq6zs6zt6zw6zz6zz6zz6zz6zz9zzB\ zwDzqEzlIzgJzdLz_NzVQzQRzLTzGVzD_zBdz9iz8nz6sz4xz2zz\ 1zz0zz0zz0zz0zz0zz0zz1lzzkzzizzgzzfzzdzzazz_zzYzzXzz\ VzzTzzRzzTzxVztXzpXzlYzg_zdYzlYzt_zaazG_z0bz0dz0gz0i\ z0lz0nz0pz0nz0lz1lz8kzDkzJizOizVgz_gzdbzb_zaXza } END PARAMETER FILE========================================= Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 22-04-01 Date: 03 May 2001 10:15:46 -0500 Jim Muth wrote: >>> If I can find a trashy enough old sci-fi movie to watch, the day will >>> be complete. >> >> Ever seen ZARDOZ ?? > > Yes! wiZARDofOZ is one of my favorites. Oh, no!! You just gave away the secret! ;-) > I play it at least once a month. It's plenty trashy. And yet.... it's actually pretty good (I think). I think it's a brilliant example of British low-tech/hi-tech SF. By that I mean the use of simple, low tech things to suggest a technology so high that it doesn't resemble technology anymore (Dr Who does this too, but with more kitsch ). And it has so many interesting ideas in it: punishing immortals by aging them, the "mainframe-in-a-diamond" and many more. It's in my top twenty SF films ever (along with SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE, SILENT RUNNING, 2001, DARK CITY (outstanding recent SF film), FIFTH ELEMENT...). > I also have spotted many fractal-like figures in the background,... Yeah? Share with us?? Please??? > BTW, have you ever seen the 1970 Soviet production of SOLARIS? Wow. Not in 30 years, at least! Hmmmm, wonder where I could find one. -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 03 May 2001 10:21:48 -0500 "J. Covey" wrote: > Actually, the perihelion advance formula for the orbit > of Mercury can be derived from classical, > flat-space-time principles in a manner that is far > simpler than Einstein's own derivation. This discovery > completes an alternative interpretation for all GR's > major effects. To quote Mr. Spock, "Fascinating!" Can you provide a link or three? I'd like to pursue this. For one thing, I'd be interested in seeing how they account for the bending of light by gravity. -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thierry B." Subject: (fractint) Chaos and TCP/IP Date: 03 May 2001 15:35:14 +0000 http://razor.bindview.com/publish/papers/tcpseq.html -- Thierry Boudet http://la.buvette.org/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RENRAD1@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Chaos and TCP/IP Date: 03 May 2001 14:36:57 EDT In a message dated 01-05-03 11:35:46 EDT, you write: << http://razor.bindview.com/publish/papers/tcpseq.html >> Fascinating paper, thanks for posting the URL. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo M. Forno" Subject: RE: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 02 May 2001 21:41:21 -0300 Aren't we IN a galaxy? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 9:57 PM > > > Programmer Dude wrote: > > > > Jim Muth philosophized: > > > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. The problem is that > > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating too fast to be caused > ...................... > > > > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it does not emit light that > > we can see. Dark matter *could* just be ordinary, cold matter, and we > > would never be able to see it...from earth. If we can ever get out into > > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have no problem detecting it. > > > > > Aren't we IN the universe? > Kathy Roth > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 18-04-01 (Fractured Fractal [6]) Date: 04 May 2001 07:55:20 +0200 Hi Andrew, At 14:08 01/05/01 -0000, you wrote: >I have another even more technical question... How do you pronounce >"Riemann"?!?! Riemann is simply Riemann or in an english translation I say: REEMAN(n) = with double 'n' > >Thanks. >Andrew. But are you able to translate the following into a working .frm? > >Random Though of the Day: average(x, y, z) = (x+y+z)/3. What happens if you >use average(x, y, z) = (x*y*z)^(1/3)? > cheers, Guy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) evolver bug? Date: 04 May 2001 10:36:12 +0200 At 20:51 02/05/01 -0500, you wrote: >Guy, > >> in an .frm working with 4 functions (fn1-fn4) I need to play with fn1-fn3 >> but not with fn4. Fn4 is set to 'sinh' and has to stay so. Starting the >> Evolver with the 'fn4=no' option (but set to 'sinh' in the Z-screen) all >> the pictures are generated with 'fn4=sin' except the first one.. > >I found the problem. We're trying to put a two byte value into a one byte >space. As long as all the functions are getting evolved, the error doesn't >show up. that's right! >This is because the zero entered into the second byte gets >overwritten by the value for the next function. > >I'll need to dig into the code some more to see if this affects the history >routine and saved images. The fix will be in my next patch. > oh thanks a lot! So I'll wait with my tests until it's fixed! >Jonathan > > cheers, Guy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Bennett Subject: RE: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 05:20:12 -0700 (PDT) > > Programmer Dude wrote: > > > > > > Jim Muth philosophized: > > > > > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. > The problem is that > > > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating > too fast to be caused > > ...................... > > > > > > > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it > does not emit light that > > > we can see. Dark matter *could* just be > ordinary, cold matter, and we > > > would never be able to see it...from earth. If > we can ever get out into > > > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have > no problem detecting > it. > > > > > > > > > Aren't we IN the universe? > > Kathy Roth > > I, unfortunately, find these esoteric discussions somewhat off the point and containing little, if anything, relevant to the construction of fractals. Tom Peace and tranquility are within us all. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 04-05-01 (Fractal Number Nine [3]) Date: 04 May 2001 10:27:44 EDT Classic FOTD -- May 04, 2001 (Rating 3) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: An unexpected rush job came in today, preventing me from devoting time to a proper fractal search. And since the job is not yet finished, I will have little time to devote to today's fractal notes. The image was created by the formula Z+Z^5+C. With no time to think of a better name, I gave the image the descriptive name "Fractal Number Nine". Being both honest and conservative, I could rate the image no higher than a 3, which equals below average. With a render time of a little over 5 minutes, the parameter file is reasonably fast. An even faster way of seeing the underwhelming image is to download the GIF file from: or from: after giving Paul and Scott a chance to get the image posted. The fractal weather, (I guess weather is fractal), was continued summer-like today, with hot sun, polluted air, and a temperature of 89F (31.5C). All the heat and pollution kept the fractal cats hidden in the shade of the holly trees. It's now time to get busy on other things. Until the next FOTD in 12 hours or so, take care, and become one with your fractals. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Fractal_NumberNine { ; time=0:05:22.42--SF5 on a p200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=MandelbrotMix4 function=ident passes=1 center-mag=-0.213080088333/0.2385427746923/174167.\ 4/1/59.999 params=1/1/1/5/0/0 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 logmap=84 periodicity=10 colors=000n6lo7Zq8lt9pvBswCwyNwxXtzfmzqgzz`zzVzzXz\ zYvzYqwZms`hn`dja`gcXccSZdOVfJSfFOgBJh8HhBIjCJkELk\ FLmHMmJOnLInMIpOFqPJqSLsTOsVRtXStYUsYUrYTqXSmVQhVO\ dTMaTMYTOVTPXTRYTRZTS`TTaTVcTVdTXfTYgTZjT`kTamTcnP\ ahMZcIYYFXS8LS18S00S02O36J8BFCFBHJ6LO3JX8JdBJmEJtH\ EgBBa98X62L109000000s00d00R00E000w0qd0`M0J302qMzcF\ vR8cC1M003z0Ez9Cj35R00600B0w60k30a00S00H006000zavd\ LYE39O0z50Pz`gtSYfJOSBFE25000E0z30`00BS0OL0IF0C906\ 302000000zEnf3TE08R0kL0cH0XB0O60H109001000C0I80C30\ 8103000000000H0gC0`80T50M10F008001000fdaOaL5C3BEz3\ 6m00S006dEfY9ZR6SJ2LE0E606000000JhaBTP2FC010qIcJ2C\ 6Lzz00v00g00T00F00100X`0M`0EZ03J00200sn0gcgXTjLIk9\ 8n00sZfwIOz25zOPzIJzEFz99z55z01z30z60z9zzCqzFgzIYz\ LPzOFzR5zT0zX0zZ0za0zd0zgFzgRzg6zgazgLzg3zgRzgJzgC\ zg6zg0zg0zgFzg9zg3zg0zg0zg1zgLzgHzgCzg8zg3zg0zg0zg\ 0zg1zg0zg0zg0zg0zg0zg9zgI } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 10:29:17 -0500 Well I don't think it's all that off-point, and can think of several reasons to encourage such rare dialogues on this site:

    a) they're all too INfrequent, frequently stimulating, and *fun*;
    b) they make a great deal more sense, IMHO, than "similar" efforts by those who consider themselves to be philosophers/philosophers  of science, or philosopers AND scientists - who invariably are neither;
    c) the latter have their own philo-whatever discussion sites - have you ever read any of that garbage?.

DBF

Thomas Bennett wrote:

> > Programmer Dude wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim Muth philosophized:
> > >
> > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter.
> The problem is that
> > > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating
> too fast to be caused
> > ......................
> >
> >
> > > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it
> does not emit light that
> > > we can see.  Dark matter *could* just be
> ordinary, cold matter, and we
> > > would never be able to see it...from earth.  If
> we can ever get out into
> > > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have
> no problem detecting
> it.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Aren't we IN the universe?
> > Kathy Roth
> >
I, unfortunately, find these esoteric discussions
somewhat off the point and containing little, if
anything, relevant to the construction of fractals.

    Tom

Peace and tranquility are within us all.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------
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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Programmer Dude Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 10:49:45 -0500 Ricardo M. Forno wrote: > Kathy Roth wrote: >> Programmer Dude wrote: >>> Jim Muth philosophized: >>>> ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter. >>> >>> If we can ever get out into the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd >>> probably have no problem detecting it. >> >> Aren't we IN the universe? > > Aren't we IN a galaxy? "If we can ever get **OUT** **INTO** the galaxy and universe,..." On our little ball of rock, we're snug and safe beneath a protective, concealing blanket of atmosphere....which is encased in a magnetic planetary structure...which is inside the local solar environment. You have to go a long, long way to get **OUT** **INTO** the galactic environment before you can begin to look for dark matter. p.s. Some astronomers have suggested that dark matter might be located in (and I love this term) MACHOS (MAssive Cometary Halo ObjectS). That is, really, really big snowballs. With rocks in them. ;-) -- |_ CJSonnack _____________| How's my programming? | |_ http://www.Sonnack.com/ ___________________| Call: 1-800-DEV-NULL | |_____________________________________________|_______________________| Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 10:29:17 -0500 Well I don't think it's all that off-point, and can think of several reasons to encourage such rare dialogues on this site:

    a) they're all too INfrequent, frequently stimulating, and *fun*;
    b) they make a great deal more sense, IMHO, than "similar" efforts by those who consider themselves to be philosophers/philosophers  of science, or philosopers AND scientists - who invariably are neither;
    c) the latter have their own philo-whatever discussion sites - have you ever read any of that garbage?.

DBF

Thomas Bennett wrote:

> > Programmer Dude wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim Muth philosophized:
> > >
> > > > ...I pondered about gravity and dark matter.
> The problem is that
> > > > the outer parts of the galaxies are rotating
> too fast to be caused
> > ......................
> >
> >
> > > Just a note: we can't detect it only because it
> does not emit light that
> > > we can see.  Dark matter *could* just be
> ordinary, cold matter, and we
> > > would never be able to see it...from earth.  If
> we can ever get out into
> > > the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd probably have
> no problem detecting
> it.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Aren't we IN the universe?
> > Kathy Roth
> >
I, unfortunately, find these esoteric discussions
somewhat off the point and containing little, if
anything, relevant to the construction of fractals.

    Tom

Peace and tranquility are within us all.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List
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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) RE: C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 20:58:40 -0400 (EDT) At 05:20 AM 5/4/01 -0700, Thomas Bennett wrote: >I, unfortunately, find these esoteric discussions > somewhat off the point and >containing little, if anything, relevant to the >construction of fractals. True, the topic might be more appropriate on the philofractal list, but anyone interested in math and the mathematical aspect of fractals should be equally interested in how the rest of the world works. And, considering the way it has been popularized over the better part of the last century, relativity can hardly still be considered esoteric. FOTD now in work. Jim M. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 05-05-01 (Golden Terraces [6]) Date: 05 May 2001 00:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Classic FOTD -- May 05, 2001 (Rating 6) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: As far as I can recall, this is the first time I have needed to post a second version of the same fractal. But I had to do it. Another look at yesterday's pathetic effort convinced me that even the humble rating of 3 was too high. The picture rates closer to a 2, and perhaps even a 1. As stated, today's fractal was created by the same formula as yesterday's. In fact, it's the same image. The only change is that today's version was rendered with the outside=tdis option in effect, which gives the appearance of golden terraces. After minimal consideration, I named the picture "Golden Terraces" and rated it a 6. I chose the name because I saw terraces when I studied the image; I decided on the slightly above average rating of 6 because I kind of like the new version. The parameter file renders in 6-1/2 minutes. A download of the GIF image file is faster, and the GIF image will be available within the hour at: and at: While working with today's image, I discovered a new bug in the latest float-only release of Fractint. I'll track the critter down and post the details in the morning. The fractal weather today continued summer-like, with hot hazy sun and a temperature of 90F (32C). These conditions were a bit too extreme for the intrepid duo of fractal cats, who passed the afternoon lounging on the shaded porch, raising their heads only when they thought they heard a can of food being opened. As all things must eventually come to an end, so must the FOTD for 05-05-01 come to its end. But the 06-05-01 FOTD will appear in only 24 hours, and it is guaranteed to be an improvement. So until then, take care, and watch out for hit-and-run fractals. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Golden_Terraces { ; time=0:06:27.34--SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=mandelbrotmix4 function=ident passes=1 center-mag=-0.213080088333/0.2385427746923/174167.\ 4/1/59.999 params=1/1/1/5/0/0 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 outside=tdis periodicity=10 colors=000Q0ZO0dM0kL0qL0wO0qQ0mS2fU6aXBXYFS`KMaOId\ UDfYAic5kg1sn0ys0zw0zz0zy0yt0sn0mi0fc0`Z0UU0LQ0DK0\ AG06C0BD0FF1IG5MH8SICXIG`KKdLOkMSoOXtQ`yQdtOgqMinL\ kiKmfKncIqZHsXGtUFvQFwMDzKCzGBzDAzBAzHGwMMnUUfZ`Yf\ gQmoItwBzz5vw8ssComGmgIiaMfYRcSV`OYYIaVFfSAkQ6nM1s\ K0wH0zaMaytGwsHwsIwsKwsLvsMvsOvsQvsQtqRtqStqUtqVsq\ XsqYsqZsqZg0Hn5Kt8MzCQzGRzIUzKXzMZyOawQdvSgtUksXnq\ YqoZtnawmczkfzigzgiziczkZzmUznQzoKzoGzoIzqMzcd5aa2\ `Z0`Y0YX0VV0UU1RS2OR3MQ3KO5IM6GL7DK8CI8AHA7GB6FC3D\ D2CD0BF0AG08H07I07I0BL0DO0HR0KU0OX0RZ0Va0Yd0ag0dk0\ in0mq0qt0tw0yz0zz1zt8zkGzcOzVXzMdzGnz8wz1zz0zz0zz0\ zw1zv3ys6yo7wnAvkCtgDsdGscIq`KoYMnXQmURmRUkOXiMYgK\ `fHcfGddFfdDfcCgcBgaBiaAi`8k`7k`7kZ6mZ5mY3nY2nX2oX\ 1oV0qV0qV0qHGd5ZU0sK0tL0vL3wL6yL8yLCzLFzLIzLLzLOzL\ SzLVzLYzLVzISyHQtGMqDKmCHgBFcAC`7AX67S55Q33M73KB3H\ D2GH2DL2BO18S17VU0IS0OR0U } frm:MandelbrotMix4 {; Jim Muth a=real(p1), b=imag(p1), d=real(p2), f=imag(p2), g=1/f, h=1/d, j=1/(f-b), z=(-a*b*g*h)^j, k=real(p3)+1, l=imag(p3)+100, c=fn1(pixel): z=k*((a*(z^b))+(d*(z^f)))+c, |z| < l } END 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Lewis Subject: Re: (fractint) C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 04 May 2001 20:45:53 +0100 We have had from jim Muth >> ... I pondered about gravity and dark matter. And the following points were made > If we can ever get out into the galaxy and universe, THEN we'd= probably have no problem detecting it. > Aren't we IN the universe? > Aren't we IN a galaxy? >"If we can ever get **OUT** **INTO** the galaxy and= universe,..." >On our little ball of rock, we're snug and safe beneath a= protective, concealing blanket of atmosphere.... which is encased in a= magnetic planetary structure... which is inside the local solar= environment. >You have to go a long, long way to get **OUT** **INTO** the= galactic environment before you can begin to look for dark matter. The question then is if we got out of the solar system, how would= we know if we had bumped into some dark matter? Would we in fact= notice, or would it be too diffuse? John Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" Subject: (fractint) IFS and L-system anomations... Date: 05 May 2001 15:45:56 +0500 I am seeking a way to make copies of IFS and L-system files of, say, up to 10 lines each, with small changes in 1 or 2 numbers of up to 15 digits each. For instance, with a starting L-system file, ask for changes in the angle of 0.5 degrees (using d), growing larger in one place, smaller in another to compensate, a total of 360 times (= a set of L-system types from 0-180 degrees with all other considerations the same); titles numbered as well, e.g. adh001, adh002, etc. This would allow some kind of overlay of gradually varying output fractals, either into a 3-d set or as an animation of sorts. (Is that all clear?) I would like to be able to do this in either DOS or in a programme with macros like MSWord97. Any ideas...? Could the existing fractal animation programmes do this already or be adapted to do it? Tony Hanmer _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS and L-system anomations... Date: 05 May 2001 14:13:28 +0200 At 15:45 05/05/01 +0500, you wrote: >I am seeking a way to make copies of IFS and L-system files of, say, up to >10 lines each, with small changes in 1 or 2 numbers of up to 15 digits each. > For instance, with a starting L-system file, ask for changes in the angle >of 0.5 degrees (using d), growing larger in one place, smaller in another to >compensate, a total of 360 times (= a set of L-system types from 0-180 >degrees with all other considerations the same); titles numbered as well, >e.g. adh001, adh002, etc. This would allow some kind of overlay of >gradually varying output fractals, either into a 3-d set or as an animation >of sorts. (Is that all clear?) I would like to be able to do this in >either DOS or in a programme with macros like MSWord97. Any ideas...? >Could the existing fractal animation programmes do this already or be >adapted to do it? Hi Tony, Is it possible to save this angle in the parameter-File (B-command)? Cheers, Guy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Guy Marson Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 05 May 2001 15:51:31 +0200 At 20:58 04/05/01 -0400, you wrote: >At 05:20 AM 5/4/01 -0700, Thomas Bennett wrote: > >>I, unfortunately, find these esoteric discussions >> somewhat off the point and >>containing little, if anything, relevant to the >>construction of fractals. > >True, the topic might be more appropriate on the philofractal >list, but anyone interested in math and the mathematical aspect >of fractals should be equally interested in how the rest of the >world works. And, considering the way it has been popularized >over the better part of the last century, relativity can hardly >still be considered esoteric. > "Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel".... ... so let's fractalize this comedian tragedy. Guy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS and L-system anomations... Date: 05 May 2001 09:39:59 -0500 Tony-

There are two sources of code still in print and available from, for example, amazon.com, that I am aware of, that could be adapted as you wish:

1) Meinhardt, H., Prusinkiewicz,P. et al: The Algorithmic Beauty of Shells (2d Ed), c 1998, 248 pgs, .
has an updated CD-ROM enclosed with numerous L-system & branching process programs;

2) Prusinkiewicz, et al: L-Systems, Fractals and Branching Processes,
Springer Lecture Notes in Biomathematics #79, c 1980, 120pgs, ISBN 3-540-97092-4
ends with ~30pgs of straight code in it, but is not very easy going.

As Prusienkiewicz was apparently the popularizer of Lindenmayer systems, look up all his now out of print earlier books and articles, and you'll find many from the 90's with executable code;

Similarly for old Lindenmayer himself, and more recently Meinhardt & pals who has also done books with gorgeous graphics (and documented code) such as The Algorithmic Beauty of Plants w/ enclosed CD-ROMS;

The richest source of code for branching processes in general still lies in the Springer Series Lecture Notes in Biomathematics. Unfortunately, most are out of print - but should be in your Univ library.

Oh, most of the efficient IFS code is patented by and available for $ from a company associated with (I think) Barnsley at Georgia Tech, which may still maintain its website called "IFS, Inc".
 

Good luck.

DeBow Freed

"Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" wrote:

I am seeking a way to make copies of IFS and L-system files of, say, up to
10 lines each, with small changes in 1 or 2 numbers of up to 15 digits each.
  For instance, with a starting L-system file, ask for changes in the angle
of 0.5 degrees (using d), growing larger in one place, smaller in another to
compensate, a total of 360 times (= a set of L-system types  from 0-180
degrees with all other considerations the same); titles numbered as well,
e.g. adh001, adh002, etc.  This would allow some kind of overlay of
gradually varying output fractals, either into a 3-d set or as an animation
of sorts.  (Is that all clear?)  I would like to be able to do this in
either DOS or in a programme with macros like MSWord97.  Any ideas...?
Could the existing fractal animation programmes do this already or be
adapted to do it?

Tony Hanmer
_________________________________________________________________________
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Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Float-only bug report Date: 05 May 2001 10:51:54 EDT I have found an annoying bug in the float-only version of Fractint. The bug is demonstrated by the two attached parameter files. The two files are of the same image, but they were written by different versions of the program. The center coordinates in the first file, which was written by the float-only version, are rounded to 6 places, which at this magnitude causes the wrong image to be drawn. The second file, written by the standard version, draws the correct image. The bug is significant only in this particular magnitude range. At higher magnitudes, the float-only version does not round off the coordinates. At lesser magnitudes, the rounding is insignificant. ======================================================== float-only { ; written by float-only version ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 8 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=mandelbrotmix4 function=ident center-mag=-0.213078/0.238549/3905099/1/72.499 params=1/1/1/5/0/0 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 outside=tdis periodicity=10 colors=000Q0ZO0dM0kL0qL0wO0qQ0mS2fU6aXBXYFS`KMaOId\ UDfYAic5kg1sn0ys0zw0zz0zy0yt0sn0mi0fc0`Z0UU0LQ0DK0\ AG06C0BD0FF1IG5MH8SICXIG`KKdLOkMSoOXtQ`yQdtOgqMinL\ kiKmfKncIqZHsXGtUFvQFwMDzKCzGBzDAzBAzHGwMMnUUfZ`Yf\ gQmoItwBzz5vw8ssComGmgIiaMfYRcSV`OYYIaVFfSAkQ6nM1s\ K0wH0zaMaytGwsHwsIwsKwsLvsMvsOvsQvsQtqRtqStqUtqVsq\ XsqYsqZsqZg0Hn5Kt8MzCQzGRzIUzKXzMZyOawQdvSgtUksXnq\ YqoZtnawmczkfzigzgiziczkZzmUznQzoKzoGzoIzqMzcd5aa2\ `Z0`Y0YX0VV0UU1RS2OR3MQ3KO5IM6GL7DK8CI8AHA7GB6FC3D\ D2CD0BF0AG08H07I07I0BL0DO0HR0KU0OX0RZ0Va0Yd0ag0dk0\ in0mq0qt0tw0yz0zz1zt8zkGzcOzVXzMdzGnz8wz1zz0zz0zz0\ zw1zv3ys6yo7wnAvkCtgDsdGscIq`KoYMnXQmURmRUkOXiMYgK\ `fHcfGddFfdDfcCgcBgaBiaAi`8k`7k`7kZ6mZ5mY3nY2nX2oX\ 1oV0qV0qV0qHGd5ZU0sK0tL0vL3wL6yL8yLCzLFzLIzLLzLOzL\ SzLVzLYzLVzISyHQtGMqDKmCHgBFcAC`7AX67S55Q33M73KB3H\ D2GH2DL2BO18S17VU0IS0OR0U } standard { ; written by standard version ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=mandelbrotmix4 function=ident center-mag=-0.21307797051286860/+0.238549244665356\ 30/3905099/1/72.499 params=1/1/1/5/0/0 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 outside=tdis periodicity=10 colors=000Q0ZO0dM0kL0qL0wO0qQ0mS2fU6aXBXYFS`KMaOId\ UDfYAic5kg1sn0ys0zw0zz0zy0yt0sn0mi0fc0`Z0UU0LQ0DK0\ AG06C0BD0FF1IG5MH8SICXIG`KKdLOkMSoOXtQ`yQdtOgqMinL\ kiKmfKncIqZHsXGtUFvQFwMDzKCzGBzDAzBAzHGwMMnUUfZ`Yf\ gQmoItwBzz5vw8ssComGmgIiaMfYRcSV`OYYIaVFfSAkQ6nM1s\ K0wH0zaMaytGwsHwsIwsKwsLvsMvsOvsQvsQtqRtqStqUtqVsq\ XsqYsqZsqZg0Hn5Kt8MzCQzGRzIUzKXzMZyOawQdvSgtUksXnq\ YqoZtnawmczkfzigzgiziczkZzmUznQzoKzoGzoIzqMzcd5aa2\ `Z0`Y0YX0VV0UU1RS2OR3MQ3KO5IM6GL7DK8CI8AHA7GB6FC3D\ D2CD0BF0AG08H07I07I0BL0DO0HR0KU0OX0RZ0Va0Yd0ag0dk0\ in0mq0qt0tw0yz0zz1zt8zkGzcOzVXzMdzGnz8wz1zz0zz0zz0\ zw1zv3ys6yo7wnAvkCtgDsdGscIq`KoYMnXQmURmRUkOXiMYgK\ `fHcfGddFfdDfcCgcBgaBiaAi`8k`7k`7kZ6mZ5mY3nY2nX2oX\ 1oV0qV0qV0qHGd5ZU0sK0tL0vL3wL6yL8yLCzLFzLIzLLzLOzL\ SzLVzLYzLVzISyHQtGMqDKmCHgBFcAC`7AX67S55Q33M73KB3H\ D2GH2DL2BO18S17VU0IS0OR0U } ===================================================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Wegner Subject: (fractint) What is on topic or off topic Date: 05 May 2001 12:22:48 -0600 Recently several of you have been concerned about whether some of the recent discussion has been on or off topic for this list. It is important to keep messages on topic. The topic is fractals and fractint. Keeping messages on topic is a courtesy to all the list members who are receiving all the mail on this list, and who subscribed because they are interested in the topic. This is really an issue of mindfulness that is needed when posting. Before pressing the button, just ask yourself if your post is really appropriate for this list. I should add that the topic of fractals is indeed broad. It certainly covers some aspects of mathematics, philosophy, astronomy, and speculation about the physical world. I not want to suggest that some of the recent threads were necessarily inappropriate, though it is probably true that some of the posts in those threads had indeed wandered far off topic. I ask only that when you branch into those related fields, you be mindful to keep the discussion related somewhat to our topic, at least after a post or two. Here's an example of a related topic that I think is fine for this list. Here's an animated zoom made from NASA imagery that reminds me a lot of animated zooms I have made with fractint. You will need software that reads MPEG files to enjoythis (e.g. Windows Media Player). It's kind of a long URL, you might need to unwrap it. This one zooms from the whole planet to Fisherman's Wharf. www.gsfc.nasa.gov/GSFC/EARTH/imaging/SanFrancisco_zoom_in.mpeg Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DeBow Freed Subject: Addendum to: Re: (fractint) IFS and L-system anomations... Date: 05 May 2001 14:39:11 -0500 Tony-

The specific degree/branch-related question you ask is dealt with in C in the following book, whose in-print/outofprint status I don't know:

Rozenberg,G & Salomaa,A (Eds): The Book of L, Springer-Verlag, c1985, 492p,
    ISBN 3-540-16022-1 and 0-387-16022-1.

DBF

DeBow Freed wrote:

Tony-

There are two sources of code still in print and available from, for example, amazon.com, that I am aware of, that could be adapted as you wish:

1) Meinhardt, H., Prusinkiewicz,P. et al: The Algorithmic Beauty of Shells (2d Ed), c 1998, 248 pgs, .
has an updated CD-ROM enclosed with numerous L-system & branching process programs;

2) Prusinkiewicz, et al: L-Systems, Fractals and Branching Processes,
Springer Lecture Notes in Biomathematics #79, c 1980, 120pgs, ISBN 3-540-97092-4
ends with ~30pgs of straight code in it, but is not very easy going.

As Prusienkiewicz was apparently the popularizer of Lindenmayer systems, look up all his now out of print earlier books and articles, and you'll find many from the 90's with executable code;

Similarly for old Lindenmayer himself, and more recently Meinhardt & pals who has also done books with gorgeous graphics (and documented code) such as The Algorithmic Beauty of Plants w/ enclosed CD-ROMS;

The richest source of code for branching processes in general still lies in the Springer Series Lecture Notes in Biomathematics. Unfortunately, most are out of print - but should be in your Univ library.

Oh, most of the efficient IFS code is patented by and available for $ from a company associated with (I think) Barnsley at Georgia Tech, which may still maintain its website called "IFS, Inc".
 

Good luck.

DeBow Freed

"Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" wrote:

I am seeking a way to make copies of IFS and L-system files of, say, up to
10 lines each, with small changes in 1 or 2 numbers of up to 15 digits each.
  For instance, with a starting L-system file, ask for changes in the angle
of 0.5 degrees (using d), growing larger in one place, smaller in another to
compensate, a total of 360 times (= a set of L-system types  from 0-180
degrees with all other considerations the same); titles numbered as well,
e.g. adh001, adh002, etc.  This would allow some kind of overlay of
gradually varying output fractals, either into a 3-d set or as an animation
of sorts.  (Is that all clear?)  I would like to be able to do this in
either DOS or in a programme with macros like MSWord97.  Any ideas...?
Could the existing fractal animation programmes do this already or be
adapted to do it?

Tony Hanmer
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint"
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) Float-only bug report Date: 05 May 2001 16:56:56 -0500 Jim, > I have found an annoying bug in the float-only version of > Fractint. The bug is demonstrated by the two attached parameter > files. The two files are of the same image, but they were > written by different versions of the program. Can you recall the exact steps you took to get from the standard version image to the float only version image? I can't get there (using the float only version) from the standard version PAR or a GIF made from it. It may also help if you sent me your sstools.ini file used with the float only version. Thanks. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thomas Bennett Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: C-FOTD 28-04-01 (Semi-Chaos [4]) Date: 05 May 2001 15:57:30 -0700 (PDT) --- Guy Marson wrote: > >True, the topic might be more appropriate on the > philofractal > >list, but anyone interested in math and the > mathematical aspect > >of fractals should be equally interested in how the > rest of the > >world works. And, considering the way it has been > popularized > >over the better part of the last century, > relativity can hardly > >still be considered esoteric. I see no reason why an interest in fractals automatically condemns me to an interest in how the rest of the world works. Now I am posting off topic. Tom. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Re: Float-only bug report Date: 05 May 2001 20:11:20 EDT Johnathan wrote: >Can you recall the exact steps you took to get from the standard version >image to the float only version image? I can't get there (using the float >only version) from the standard version PAR or a GIF made from it. It may >also help if you sent me your sstools.ini file used with the float only >version. Thanks. I had to temporarily rename the two fractint.exe files to shift back and forth from float-only to standard. To reproduce the bug, boot the float-only version of Fractint and run the parameter file attached to the bottom of this letter. The file was written by the full version with integer math. Then, still using the float-only version, save a new parameter file of the just finished image. Next run the parameter file that you just saved and compare the two images. The new image will be offset by about half a screen width. The problem seems to be that the float-only version waits until too great a magnitude is reached before it stops rounding the center coordinates to 6 places. The bug is very subtle and affects only a small magnitude range, which is why I did not notice it until I began working with the "Golden Terraces" image, which happens to lie in that narrow range. Here is my sstools.ini file, which gets me into the MandelbrotMix4 formula and draws a blank black screen. I doubt that the .ini file is involved. I hope this info helps. Jim M. START SSTOOLS.INI FILE========================== TYPE=formula FLOAT=yes FORMULAFILE=critical.frm FORMULANAME=MandelbrotMix4 MAXITER=100 PASSES=g INSIDE=0 PERIODICITY=10 SYMMETRY=none PARAMS=1/999999999/1/1/1/99999 FUNCTION=recip ; BAILOUT=25 LOGMAP=yes FASTRESTORE=yes VIDEO=sf5 ASKVIDEO=no SAVETIME=25 MATHTOLERANCE=/0.18 DEBUGFLAG=920 TEXTSAFE=save END SSTOOLS.INI FILE============================ START PARAMETER FILE============================ standard { ; parameters by standard version ; Version 2001 Patchlevel 5 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=critical.frm formulaname=mandelbrotmix4 function=ident center-mag=-0.21307797051286860/+0.238549244665356\ 30/3905099/1/72.499 params=1/1/1/5/0/0 float=y maxiter=1200 inside=0 outside=tdis periodicity=10 colors=000Q0ZO0dM0kL0qL0wO0qQ0mS2fU6aXBXYFS`KMaOId\ UDfYAic5kg1sn0ys0zw0zz0zy0yt0sn0mi0fc0`Z0UU0LQ0DK0\ AG06C0BD0FF1IG5MH8SICXIG`KKdLOkMSoOXtQ`yQdtOgqMinL\ kiKmfKncIqZHsXGtUFvQFwMDzKCzGBzDAzBAzHGwMMnUUfZ`Yf\ gQmoItwBzz5vw8ssComGmgIiaMfYRcSV`OYYIaVFfSAkQ6nM1s\ K0wH0zaMaytGwsHwsIwsKwsLvsMvsOvsQvsQtqRtqStqUtqVsq\ XsqYsqZsqZg0Hn5Kt8MzCQzGRzIUzKXzMZyOawQdvSgtUksXnq\ YqoZtnawmczkfzigzgiziczkZzmUznQzoKzoGzoIzqMzcd5aa2\ `Z0`Y0YX0VV0UU1RS2OR3MQ3KO5IM6GL7DK8CI8AHA7GB6FC3D\ D2CD0BF0AG08H07I07I0BL0DO0HR0KU0OX0RZ0Va0Yd0ag0dk0\ in0mq0qt0tw0yz0zz1zt8zkGzcOzVXzMdzGnz8wz1zz0zz0zz0\ zw1zv3ys6yo7wnAvkCtgDsdGscIq`KoYMnXQmURmRUkOXiMYgK\ `fHcfGddFfdDfcCgcBgaBiaAi`8k`7k`7kZ6mZ5mY3nY2nX2oX\ 1oV0qV0qV0qHGd5ZU0sK0tL0vL3wL6yL8yLCzLFzLIzLLzLOzL\ SzLVzLYzLVzISyHQtGMqDKmCHgBFcAC`7AX67S55Q33M73KB3H\ D2GH2DL2BO18S17VU0IS0OR0U } END PARAMETER FILE============================== Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Re: C-FOTD 28-04-01 Date: 05 May 2001 20:17:18 EDT Tom Bennett wrote: >I see no reason why an interest in fractals >automatically condemns me to an interest in how the >rest of the world works. Being interested in fractals certainly does not condemn anyone to an interest in the world. But since when has an interest in the world around us been a condemnation? FOTD in 3 hours or so. Jim M. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) No hard feelings Date: 05 May 2001 22:30:14 -0400 Zorba, > Anyway. On a slightly different note, it's pretty unlikely that I'll do the > re-rendering with Fractint, for multiple reasons - no built-in antialiasing, > for example, and it multitasks pretty badly with Windows. If I can figure > out how to duplicate the exact images in Ultrafractal (I haven't even gone > back to see the differences yet, actually) I might try, but considering that > one complaint was the color banding (which I can't imagine how it could > possibly be *worse* on UF than Fractint) Why imagine? I did Swarm027 and Swarm018 in Fractint disk/video mode at 1600x1200 under W98 and they took about 35 and 18 minutes (PIII/600) respectively and didn't cause problems doing it. The differences are obvious. Having the benefit over you that I have actually seen the fractint images at 1600x1200, I'd say they don't need anti-aliasing and since it destroys the textures that are a feature of at least those two images, anti-aliasing isn't a benefit. You may or may not like the texture Sylvie has brought out, but to rely on your imagination when you could see for yourself in very little time is odd indeed. Try them. You might like them. > and the antialiasing (which I > consider totally incomprehensible from an artistic standpoint - if anything, > it makes it *more* detailed, IMHO It doesn't make an image more detailed. It smooths things out, so it actually removes detail - whether that detail is real or artifice and whether it is wanted or not are other matters. If you do the image in fractint you'll see that either UF or the anti-aliasing has removed the texture that is an interesting feature of Swarm027 and Swarm018. Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 06-05-01 (A Hazy Mandelbrot [4]) Date: 05 May 2001 23:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Classic FOTD -- May 06, 2001 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Though it takes over one hour to render, today's fractal was found with little effort. In fact, it was found with perhaps too little effort, which accounts for the inglorious rating of 4. The image shows a midget in a remote valley of a twisted minibrot, lying in the chaos near the western shoreline of a remote part of the Z^2.01+C Mandeloid. I named the image "A Hazy Mandelbrot". The name is fairly descriptive of the hazy appearance of the territory surrounding the center midget, especially when viewed from a distance. The texture of the haze reflects the nature of the chaos in the area of the parent fractal where today's image is located. As I watched the image slowly take shape, I wondered about the infinite logarithmic spiral, of which today's scene is an infinitesimal part. Of what dimension is it? My first guess would be that it is five-dimensional, since every twist is four- dimensional. But I'm not at all sure that my guess is right. In fact, the spiral might be of a fractional dimension. The render time of over one hour almost demands a download of the GIF image. But before going for the download, give Paul and Scott a chance to render and post the GIF image file. That file will be available on the Web at: and at: The fractal weather today was partly cloudy and pleasant. The temperature of 83F (28C) was judged purrfect by the cats, who lounged and purred in the intermittent sun for a good part of the afternoon. BTW, the time is getting closer when the fractal cats' pictures will be available, and perhaps my own as well. For now and until next time, take care, and it's interesting to be interested. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ A_Hazy_Mandelbrot { ; time=1:10:00.30--SF5 on a p200 reset=2001 type=formula formulafile=branchct.frm formulaname=MandelbrotBC1 function=floor passes=1 center-mag=-1.243321752587454/+0.01558682750444/1.\ 717303e+007/1/-67.5 params=2.01/0/-20/0 float=y maxiter=15000 inside=0 logmap=-1145 periodicity=10 colors=000jgZkeVkcRlbNm`JmZFnXBnV9nW8nX7nX7nY6nZ6n\ Z5n_5n`4n`4ykDvgJtdOraUpZZnVdlSijPohMtfJyeMxdOxcRx\ bTwaWw`Yw_`vZbvYevXguWjuVluUotTqtSttRvtVnvYfwaZydS\ zfNthJniFhkAbm6Xn2RcASUHTMMWKOUIPSGQQERPCSNATL8UJ6\ TE7VI7XL7ZP7`S7bW8dZ8fb8he8ji8ll8mo7hk7ch7_e7Va7RZ\ 7MW7IS7DP65G79M7DR8HW8L`9Pe9TjAXoA`tAcy9aa8`F9aE9b\ EAcDAdDAeCBfCBgBChBCiACjADk9Dl9Em8En8Bm6En8Gn9JnBL\ nCOnDQnFTnGVnHYnJ_nKbnLdnNgnOhrNinPijQifSibTiZViWW\ jSXjOZjK_jGajCbl6bj9ciCchFdgIdfLeeOedRfcUfbXga_g`a\ g_`hZ`hY_hY_hX_iWZiWZiVZiUYjUYjTXjSXjSXkRWkQWkQWkS\ ZeTa_VcUWfOYhIZkCcp6_m7Wj8Sg9Od9LaAHZBDWB9TC5QD0G1\ 2OD4WP6c`8kl9sw8pr8mn8jj7ge7da7aY7ZU6WP6TL6QH5NC5K\ 85H45F09E2CE3GE4JE5NE6QE8UE9XEA_DBcDCfDEjDFmDGqDHt\ DIwDJuGHsJFqMDoOBmR9kU7hX1jW5kW8lVBmVFnUIpULqTOrTS\ sSVtSYvR`wRdxQgyQjzQmvdWssFeTAdXGd_LdbRcbXdeWegVei\ VfkUgmTeyMgoTif_kXf`b_iib } frm:MandelbrotBC1 { ; by several Fractint users e=p1, a=imag(p2)+100 p=real(p2)+PI q=2*PI*fn1(p/(2*PI)) r=real(p2)-q Z=C=Pixel: Z=log(Z) IF(imag(Z)>r) Z=Z+flip(2*PI) ENDIF Z=exp(e*(Z+flip(q)))+C |Z| Subject: Re: (fractint) What is on topic or off topic Date: 05 May 2001 22:06:04 -0700 (PDT) i'd like to know (1) if there are more like this, (2) how they did it (a series of increasingly-focused photos taken within the same minute or two, or ?), and (3) if that's fisherman's wharf (pier 39?) underneath all that (i'm pretty sure that's where the zoom ends, with ghirardelli square just a bit south(west?) of the wharf... the clouds don't move, nor do the ships, so it has me wondering... you're right... the feel is similar to zooming animation with fractint, right down to some of the pixelation... :) --- Tim Wegner wrote: > Here's an animated zoom made from NASA imagery that reminds me a > lot of animated zooms I have made with fractint. You will need > software > that reads MPEG files to enjoythis (e.g. Windows Media Player). It's > kind > of a long URL, you might need to unwrap it. > > This one zooms from the whole planet to Fisherman's Wharf. > > www.gsfc.nasa.gov/GSFC/EARTH/imaging/SanFrancisco_zoom_in.mpeg > > Tim > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS and L-system anomations... Date: 06 May 2001 10:53:41 +0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_24fc_114b_403 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks for the advice so far. The L-system info is particularly interesting. But I'll now rephrase what I'm looking for: A way of copying and incrementing the digits of a small sample of TEXT, to a set degree, a set number of times. Forget the L-system or IFS formats; I'm concerned only with simple text files, as it is these - suffixed .l or .ifs - which will be interpreted by Fractint and produce the necessary fractals. (I will investigate the various books suggested, as I do want to know more about L-systems in general.) Any ideas? Tony Hanmer _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------=_NextPart_000_24fc_114b_403 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Sat May 05 12:27:09 2001 Received: from [198.60.22.7] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBCBD9EEF00A440043151C63C1607D1BD0; Sat May 05 12:26:42 2001 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14w7gm-00003d-00 for fractint-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 5 May 2001 13:26:00 -0600 Message-ID: <3AF456DF.C48E39B4@airmail.net> Organization: The BMC Group / USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-NSCPCD (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3AF410BF.C5D9E539@airmail.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-fractint@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fractint@lists.xmission.com Tony-

The specific degree/branch-related question you ask is dealt with in C in the following book, whose in-print/outofprint status I don't know:

Rozenberg,G & Salomaa,A (Eds): The Book of L, Springer-Verlag, c1985, 492p,
    ISBN 3-540-16022-1 and 0-387-16022-1.

DBF

DeBow Freed wrote:

Tony-

There are two sources of code still in print and available from, for example, amazon.com, that I am aware of, that could be adapted as you wish:

1) Meinhardt, H., Prusinkiewicz,P. et al: The Algorithmic Beauty of Shells (2d Ed), c 1998, 248 pgs, .
has an updated CD-ROM enclosed with numerous L-system & branching process programs;

2) Prusinkiewicz, et al: L-Systems, Fractals and Branching Processes,
Springer Lecture Notes in Biomathematics #79, c 1980, 120pgs, ISBN 3-540-97092-4
ends with ~30pgs of straight code in it, but is not very easy going.

As Prusienkiewicz was apparently the popularizer of Lindenmayer systems, look up all his now out of print earlier books and articles, and you'll find many from the 90's with executable code;

Similarly for old Lindenmayer himself, and more recently Meinhardt & pals who has also done books with gorgeous graphics (and documented code) such as The Algorithmic Beauty of Plants w/ enclosed CD-ROMS;

The richest source of code for branching processes in general still lies in the Springer Series Lecture Notes in Biomathematics. Unfortunately, most are out of print - but should be in your Univ library.

Oh, most of the efficient IFS code is patented by and available for $ from a company associated with (I think) Barnsley at Georgia Tech, which may still maintain its website called "IFS, Inc".
 

Good luck.

DeBow Freed

"Tony (Anthony) Hanmer" wrote:

I am seeking a way to make copies of IFS and L-system files of, say, up to
10 lines each, with small changes in 1 or 2 numbers of up to 15 digits each.
  For instance, with a starting L-system file, ask for changes in the angle
of 0.5 degrees (using d), growing larger in one place, smaller in another to
compensate, a total of 360 times (= a set of L-system types  from 0-180
degrees with all other considerations the same); titles numbered as well,
e.g. adh001, adh002, etc.  This would allow some kind of overlay of
gradually varying output fractals, either into a 3-d set or as an animation
of sorts.  (Is that all clear?)  I would like to be able to do this in
either DOS or in a programme with macros like MSWord97.  Any ideas...?
Could the existing fractal animation programmes do this already or be
adapted to do it?

Tony Hanmer
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint"
Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------=_NextPart_000_24fc_114b_403-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott D. Boyd" Subject: Re: (fractint) What is on topic or off topic Date: 06 May 2001 01:36:17 -0500 caren, For more of these types of animations and other satellite pictures of our planet, go to: http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/GSFC/EARTH/imaging/landsat.htm They also have a description on this page on how they do the zoom-ins. The home page for the site is at: http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/ The link for the first URL mentioned above is below the second picture down the middle column. It's a great site if you have a fast connection! Scott On Sunday 06 May 2001 00:06, caren wrote: > i'd like to know (1) if there are more like this, (2) how they did it > (a series of increasingly-focused photos taken within the same minute > or two, or ?), and (3) if that's fisherman's wharf (pier 39?) > underneath all that (i'm pretty sure that's where the zoom ends, with > ghirardelli square just a bit south(west?) of the wharf... > > the clouds don't move, nor do the ships, so it has me wondering... > > you're right... the feel is similar to zooming animation with > fractint, right down to some of the pixelation... :) > > --- Tim Wegner wrote: > > Here's an animated zoom made from NASA imagery that reminds me a > > lot of animated zooms I have made with fractint. You will need > > software > > that reads MPEG files to enjoythis (e.g. Windows Media Player). It's > > kind > > of a long URL, you might need to unwrap it. > > > > This one zooms from the whole planet to Fisherman's Wharf. > > > > www.gsfc.nasa.gov/GSFC/EARTH/imaging/SanFrancisco_zoom_in.mpeg > > > > Tim > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@fractint.org > Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" -- sdboyd56@swbell.net http://sdboyd.dyndns.org/~sdboyd/ I always wanted to be a procrastinator, but I never got around to it. -- Unknown Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Float-only bug report Date: 06 May 2001 12:27:33 -0500 Jim, > The problem seems to be that the float-only version waits until > too great a magnitude is reached before it stops rounding the > center coordinates to 6 places. The bug is very subtle and > affects only a small magnitude range, which is why I did not > notice it until I began working with the "Golden Terraces" > image, which happens to lie in that narrow range. The coordinates aren't being rounded until they are written to the PAR file. Without your sstools.ini file I never would have found this bug. I usually work at 1024x768 or 800x600. This bug only show up if you create the PAR entry at 640x480 (and probably lower). The interim solution is to create your PARs with the floating-only version using a higher screen resolution. I have a brute force fix, but I need to study the code more to understand why this only happens with the float-only version. Good catch, thanks. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonathan Osuch" Subject: (fractint) Fractint patch 20.1.09 Date: 06 May 2001 20:48:29 -0500 Patch 9 is now on the developer's web site. www.fractint.org What's new: Fixed evolver bug that occurred when some formula functions were evolved and others were not being evolved. Fixed a bug in the float-only version which truncated the image coordinates when saved to a PAR. The reason for the small patch is because the change for the float-only version has to be applied to the float-only source by hand. I didn't want it to get lost in a big patch. Jonathan Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint patch 20.1.09 Date: 07 May 2001 00:10:24 -0400 I have a problem with the latest Fractint patch and with 20.1.08. The SF4-SF-9 video modes work with 20.1.07 and earlier models but yield gobbledygook (like several superimposed images at the top of the screen) with the 08 and 09 versions. Anybody know what is wrong? Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Traynor Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint patch 20.1.09 Date: 07 May 2001 00:15:37 -0400 Mike Traynor wrote: Oops. > I have a problem with the latest Fractint patch and with 20.1.08. The SF4-SF-9 > video modes work with 20.1.07 and earlier models but yield gobbledygook (like > several superimposed images at the top of the screen) with the 08 and 09 versions. Those are the SF4-SF9 modes in the fractint.cfg that is in the distribution zip for 20.1.7 to 20.1.9 (and probably earlier). Anybody know what is wrong? Mike Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jean-Pierre Louvet" Subject: (fractint) New pages and new address Date: 07 May 2001 11:46:08 +0200 Hi all My web site was sleeping for a long time. There are now 4 new pages (p. 26, 27, 28, 29) of images made with Ultra Fractal. Please note the new address of my site below in the sig. Note also that the addresses of the mirrors for the fractal contests are now: http://fractals.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/contest98/ http://fractals.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/contest99/ http://fractals.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr/contest2k/ Thank you for all of you having links to my pages of to this mirrors to update them. And, if something is wrong (links which may not work...), let me informed. All the best. J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)05-56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux 1 | 33405 Talence CEDEX France | email : louvet@hse.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr Fractales sur serveur Web IUT Universite Bordeaux 1 : http://fractals.iuta.u-bordeaux.fr Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Zorba the Hutt" Subject: Re: (fractint) No hard feelings Date: 07 May 2001 08:25:56 -0700 > > Why imagine? I did Swarm027 and Swarm018 in Fractint disk/video mode at 1600x1200 > under W98 and they took about 35 and 18 minutes (PIII/600) respectively and > didn't cause problems doing it. The differences are obvious. Having the benefit > over you that I have actually seen the fractint images at 1600x1200, I'd say they > don't need anti-aliasing and since it destroys the textures that are a feature of > at least those two images, anti-aliasing isn't a benefit. You may or may not like > the texture Sylvie has brought out, but to rely on your imagination when you could > see for yourself in very little time is odd indeed. Try them. You might like > them. > possibly because I didn't actually have a copy of Fractint around due to a system reinstall, possibly because I don't have a PIII/600, I have a Celeron 266 running at 400, possibly because it's my main computer, Fractint doesn't time-share worth talking about, and I have other things I need to be doing. Really, I don't appreciate the tone of this one at all. > It doesn't make an image more detailed. It smooths things out, so it actually > removes detail - whether that detail is real or artifice and whether it is > wanted or not are other matters. If you do the image in fractint you'll see > that either UF or the anti-aliasing has removed the texture that is an interesting > feature of Swarm027 and Swarm018. I hate to sound condescending here, but I wasn't in a good mood *before* I read this e-mail, so, whatever. Do you actually know what anti-aliasing does? It doesn't remove detail, it doesn't smooth things out. It does more calculations on that pixel to determine more exactly what the color is. Yes, you could make a case for it "removing detail", but only if that precise point was important without caring what was around it. Which generally humans don't. It's equivalent to making a higher resolution picture and sampling it down, so the data of nine pixels is fit into one pixel - in fact, that's exactly what Fractint anti-aliasing is, rendering it at a really really high resolution and using something like Photoshop to make it smaller. UF has it built-in and has a far more intelligent algorithm it can use, which is why I like it for antialiased stuff. And so, okay, I went and got a copy of Fractint, and installed it, and found the formula and all, and, yes, there is a strange static on the side. Which I definitely don't understand, because, to me at least, it doesn't look like it's actually part of the fractal. It looks like a rounding error. (This is the same thing I noticed with Jim Muth's original, in fact.) Can anyone confirm or deny this? Zooming in, I notice that it stays pure static. The UF version doesn't have the static at all - it looks smooth. While I realize that fractals do degenerate into chaos, this isn't chaos, this is random-variation-around-a-center - it's quite clear that the top part of Swarm27 is basically-green while the middle part (for example) is basically-beige, with it shifting smoothly between them, except for a random color+-50 or so on every single pixel. This just plain doesn't look right to me, especially considering that UF generates the identical image minus the static . . . Well, anyone know what's going on here? -Zorba Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@lists.xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@fractint.org Unsubscribe: majordomo@lists.xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JimMuth@aol.com Subject: (fractint) C-FOTD 07-05-01 (Spiralesque [4]) Date: 07 May 2001 10:24:02 EDT Classic FOTD -- May 07, 2001 (Rating 4) Fractal visionaries and enthusiasts: Being forced into too much yard work, (Picking up one stick is too much.) I found little time for fractal fun. But in the end the yard work was worth it. The yard now looks better, and the fractal, which I eventually did get to, rates a 4, which is not too bad. The formula behind the image is -1.5(Z^1.2)+1.5(Z^1.3)+C, a modest expression that would be expected to do little, and indeed does but little. But that little that the formula does manage to do holds at least a few interesting things. Today's unusual spiral is one of those things. The spiral is unusual in that its 8 arms are unusually fragmented, and not at all the smoothly blended things that would be expected. While studying and trying to color the image, I felt the impression of something vaguely sinister, and considered a corresponding name, but being unable to pin down the cause of my impression, I settled on the neutral name, "Spiralesque". The parameter file renders in just over 9 minutes. The GIF file will be available for download in an hour or so at: and at: The fractal weather today, with its partly cloudy skies and temperature of 65F (18C), was perfect for yard work. It was also perfect for fractal cats, but the intrepid duo was annoyed by the activity, and spent most of the day indoors. I eased their frustration with a treat of tuna. It's now the middle of the morning and time for other work. Until next FOTD, which will appear in 12 hours or so, take care, and don't overwork. Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com START 20.0 PAR-FORMULA FILE================================ Spiralesque { ; time=0:09:10.69--SF5 on a P200 reset=2001 type=formula for