From: Roelf Renkema Subject: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 01 Oct 1997 09:15:40 +0100 Still can't get 9.6 up and running on my machine. I installed a new graphics card but it still won't go. Is does run an older machine but this baby here says no and: I'm using the dos version 19.6. Now under DOS it just won't startup and crashes my system (a Cyrix 486-dx2 66Mhz) Under Win95 I get the message that it's using a wrong instruction and halts on 391D:0BE0 interupts used none BTW I Got the right archive I followed Noels messies on that So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. So I now give you Fractint programmers the option: Turn the code upside down or Deliver a new window version or else I will go play somewhere else. Ha must be a hard choice for you guys and girls &8-D Greetz Grey -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cindy mitchell Subject: (fractint) 3D Formula Date: 01 Oct 1997 01:28:32 -0700 Both Linda and Rich were correct. My 3D comes after each and every " = " sign, also at the end of each line in the color section. So along with deleting I have to reformat. I am so glad for this forum. It is nice to know there are so many fractint enthusiast out there. Thank You, Cindy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 01 Oct 1997 09:39:13 -0400 (EDT) If you try some guy's frm file and see nothing/garbage, try: * maxiter=2000 * float=y * zooming out, zooming in * outside=iter/viewwindows=n/inside=0/color cycle (just in case your palette is goofed up or you set inside=outside=0 or something!) * Check the z screen. Some formulas use a parameter as a bailout. If you use the default 0 you'll get nothing. Look for a comment saying "use small nonzero number for p2" or large number or whatever, and look for the formula ending with something like lastsqr<=p2 or something. Try a big real number for p1 or p2, then the other, then small numbers like 0.001. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 01 Oct 1997 10:26:06 -0700 Greetz Grey wrote: >So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over speed or getting too hot. On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel chips (specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on mathematical processes. The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are used by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors. Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 01 Oct 1997 11:19:44 -0700 Charles wrote: >Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a count of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9. But the edge moved in a little. Strange.... Jay Fig3 { ; raise count and zoom to edge ; looks like smooth lines still reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.11277288466532970/+0.22362335945091970/1525879 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=1023000000 colors=0D0000<15>9Tx<24>24N13M12K00I00H<14>001000000<2>800B00F10I10<4>W4\ 0Z50a60c70e80g90jB0<2>oE0qF0sH0tJ0vK0wM0xN0<4>zV0zW0yT0<2>sJ0qF0nE0mE0<4\ >Z80W60T50Q30O30<3>E10C00B00<10>100000100200<5>B0AD0CE0F<20>k0w<7>N0QK0M\ J0L<17>401000<2>010020040<26>0d00f00e0<25>080060050030020000000 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 02 Oct 1997 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) >>Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a >count >of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. > > >Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9. But the edge moved >in a little. Could you resend that Charles? Some copies of it got garbled in the mail system. Mine for instance came out "1e9" :-) -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dewey@mipg.upenn.edu (Dewey Odhner) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 02 Oct 1997 10:21:52 EDT > From: VRCH78B@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES F CROCKER) > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:35:18, -0500 ... > Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a count > of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. But if we go down closer > to the chaotic appearing area and raise the count we see high count > filaments creeping twords the center. I suspect that at high enough counts > and magnification the apparently smooth side will break up everywhere. You are probably right. I retract my conjecture that there is a neighborhood where the boundary has fractal dimension 1. But those filaments that cluster against the smooth part of the boundary do not attach to the smooth part, but around the ends. Thus I still conjecture that it is non-locally connected. --Dewey Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 02 Oct 1997 17:51:42 +0100 Op 10:26 1-10-97 -0700 schreef Jay Hill zoiets als: > >Greetz Grey wrote: > >>So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. > >There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over >speed or getting too hot. Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only Fractint troubles me. But I will check. Tomorow I will try the proccessor from my other computer on which Fractint runs without problems,in this one. Talk about debugging &8-) >On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel >chips >(specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on >mathematical processes. > >The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are >used >by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors. > > >Jay Thanx for the tip anyway, we will see I keep you folks posted. Gray. Greetz Grey -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: A M Kelley Subject: (fractint) Centering problem Date: 02 Oct 1997 15:34:40 -0400 (EDT) --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="center.par" Content-ID: Content-Description: Flying_squirrel { ; amkelley@freenet.columbus.oh.us reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1 center-mag=-0.42372894500000010/-0.00009917999999998/0.7528158/0.9997 params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300 bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<6>iVG<\ 14>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<9>ZEBXCAXCA<29>mZEn_FmZFlYF\ kXF<2>jVEjUEiTDiSC<5>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEjWFiVG<\ 14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl } --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem Date: 02 Oct 1997 15:58:52 -0400 Alice, - Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice Sure. Press "z", F6, enter "0" for Center X. Hit return twice. Unless this is not what you mean... Neat picture. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem Date: 02 Oct 1997 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-02 15:43:50 EDT, you write: << Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice >> Alice, This fractal is a Julia which does not have y axis symmetry. Since you forced symmetry with Y center not equal to zero, you image was offset. I tinkered with the par by setting the Y center to zero and changing the magnification a little. The center part of the image seems to changed a little bit. This is a really nice image. Here is the modified par: Ron Barnett ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Flying_squirrel2 { ; t= 0:00:17.14 ; On a 486 66 at 320 x 200 reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1 center-mag=+0.00225067000000001/+0.00061798499999999/0.6502007/0.9995 params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300 bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<5>fRFi\ VGjXI<13>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<7>`HC_GBZEBXCAXCA<29>\ mZEn_FmZF<2>kWFjWEjVEjUE<7>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEj\ WFiVG<14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl } +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jakubowicz Date: 02 Oct 1997 19:27:30 -0700 Hi, I have a possibly dumb question? Can someone tell me who GeneDeWeese is? Sorry, only kidding. What I am really wondering about is how to post a FRACTINT formula and/or parameter file. Do people somehow save them as text files and attach them to their messages? I gather they are not typed out by hand. I wld appreciate any tips, as I might be so bold as to post some for anyone interested. Also thanks for the recent answers to my question about anti-aliasing -- the signal processing analogy, I think, is quite brilliant, gives me a very good picture of the process. Thanks, Peter Jakubowicz Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 02 Oct 1997 21:46:10 -0600 Greetz wrote: > Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter > then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only > Fractint troubles me. Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made. One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the "common problems in the docs"? Try these one at a time on the command line: fpu=noiit fpu=387 adapter=vga vesadetect=no Just fishing for a possible answer to your Cyrix problem. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VRCH78B@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES F CROCKER) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 02 Oct 1997 23:48:44, -0500 Paul said "Some copies of it got garbled in the mail system. Mine for instance came out "1e9"" Mine came out 1e9 also. That's less than half of what Fractints good for. Actually that was Jay's comment. The count skyrockets so fast that most of the high counts occur in a very narrow region and the main figure gets into a loop so fast that times are reasonable until magnification gets quite high. I am willing to accept on faith that the border will eventually breakup. As an example of how far you might have to go here are three par files for a point near the main figure and close to the obviously brokenup area. Fig1 { ; Solid high count band,almost ; P90 time 0:06:49.69 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957924146630/+0.05334815365641891/4.563969e+009 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } Fig2 { ; Isolated dot becomes line ; P90 time 0:03:05.71 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373397910/9.127939e+010 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } Fig3 { ; Which contains other solid lines ; P90 time 0:08:00.60 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373630590/9.127916e+011 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent. This is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to locate all the side roads. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 03 Oct 1997 14:43:38 +0100 Now the problem is getting weirder. Dig this.... I tried another graphic card NO DO and now I tried another processor NO DO This other proccessor came from a computer where fractint had no problem at all. I'm spooked. It can't be that the second graphic card gives also trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something weird is going on. Well atleast my pc got a complete overhaul &8-) Greetz Grey -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 03 Oct 1997 11:00:33 -0700 VRCH78B wrote: >I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent. This >is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope >to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to >locate all the side roads. I set your iteration limit up by a factor of 100 and find your Fig3 is not at the edge. Looking at the orbits, I see the smooth triangular interior region has period =1. Now we should be able to solve by Newton's mehtod, if need be, for the boundary and show it has smooth sides. It looks to me that only in the corners is it otherwise. My $.03 worth. Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 03 Oct 1997 17:16:49 -0600 Roelf asked: > It can't be that the second graphic card gives also > trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something > weird is going on. A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that option it's not video. Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the memory is OK? If you swap out *everything* it should work Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 03 Oct 1997 18:14:57 -0500 Howdy! My name is Merle L. Newsted Jr. but please call me Nuke. I've had an interest in fractals for about two years. A friend lent me a copy of Mandelbrot's "Fractal geometry of Nature". out of sight! Well. I searched the web and found Fractint 19.5 about six months ago, and I 've had a lot of fun with it. Thanks . Now here is my first serious attempt at writing my own fractal. I used the tutorial for L-system fractals on the spanky web site. I made a really beautiful desktop screen for windows by running a 12 iterations (i think) and then cycling the colors till the "trunk" brown and the tips were a purpley pink "flower". Well. If anybody tries it I'd like to know what you think. later nuke)*( Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke - My first real attempt Angle 32 Axiom +++++++++X X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 04 Oct 1997 08:41:17 +0100 Op 17:16 3-10-97 -0600 schreef Tim Wegner zoiets als: >Roelf asked: > >> It can't be that the second graphic card gives also >> trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something >> weird is going on. > >A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video >boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the >adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that >option it's not video. OK lets forget the video &8-) > >Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change >the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the >memory is OK? It runs on my other PC so it should be good, the archive is the one Noell stated as the right one. Ofcause I only changed the chip wouldn't make sense else now would it. Memory is just fine. ONLY THE S&%t EXE WONT RUN (starting to cry now) > >If you swap out *everything* it should work > Don't temped me! Pub is just around the corner &8-D Greetz Grey -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 04 Oct 1997 11:00:13 -0400 Grey, Whatever your problem with FractInt is, it's not because it doesn't work with Cyrix CPUs. I've used FractInt on Cyrix 486, 5x86, and 6x86 processors. It always ran fine. Also, I seriously doubt it's an overclocking thing. Having overclocked (or at least attempted to) every processor I've ever owned or built into a system, it's been my experience that DOS real mode programs (like FractInt) are generally the *most* reliable at higher speeds. Crashes usually occur in protected modes, like most modern games or systems like Windows. So this is almost certainly not it. This is one bizarre problem, dude. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 04 Oct 1997 15:48:16 -0400 Hello Nuke. I have tested your "nice flower". I like it ! I have never played with L-system, but I'm going now to try it. Only one note: may be you can put your e-mail in a comment in the formule ? And now _my_ question: why zoom fonctions are disabled in L-system ? I cant' see a technical reason, because I think that the complete image is computed in the first pass (twirlling baton) an displayed in the second pass. Is there a guru here for an explanation ? Best regards from Toulouse, France Thierry Boudet Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke Angle 32 Axiom +++++++++X X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kimjd@plu.edu Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 04 Oct 1997 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 04 Oct 1997 19:02:37 -0600 This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in lsystems, you might want to read it. A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through my old version archives and determined that the last version of fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the lines of disabling the fast assembler. Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my personal develoiper version! It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered. Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal will fail. I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked! So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed eventually, but not yet. Oh yes - the fact that SnowFlakeColor broke when we added assembler was just a coincidence. I'm sure that first version that broke just had less stack space allocated than the version before. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:24:27 -0400 (EDT) >Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made. >One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the >"common problems in the docs"? Of course if it hangs on startup he won't be able to reach the "common problems" help screen, except by going reading it or using makedoc on a machine where it runs ok. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:26:12 -0400 (EDT) You're telling me this guy really used 1 billion maxiter?! -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:50:05 -0400 (EDT) > > > > Neat, concise, very compact, and no grammatical or spelling errors. However, I must take fifteen marks off for these: Your essay lacks a focus or main point, it is ambiguous and unspecific, and you don't present even one point or example or argument to support your thesis, which itself is non-existent. :-) -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:54:04 -0400 (EDT) >This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in >lsystems, you might want to read it. > >A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image >SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through >my old version archives and determined that the last version of >fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last >version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since >the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and >also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted >that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the >lines of disabling the fast assembler. > >Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and >wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a >coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See >debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process >of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my >personal develoiper version! > >It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack >space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables >in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that >the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered. >Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of >the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of >recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal >will fail. > >I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a >prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to >work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked! > >So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll >make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many >trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional >memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to >squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed >eventually, but not yet. Glad the problem has been resolved. (This of course further argues for a 32-bit version for DOS... and overclocked Cyrix chips can go hang, if 32 bit protected mode will otherwise greatly improve performance and expandability... waitaminnit...WHAT did you just say? >I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a >prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to >work. That's what I THOUGHT you said. SYCHRONOUS ORBITS?! WOOHOO! -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor Date: 05 Oct 1997 00:04:07 -0400 (EDT) I am copying this directly to twegner because the list copy may not make it to anyone as I shall shortly explain. Today I rapidly sent off about six articles to the list. As usual, it was a while before I received copies from the mailing list. But, I received the second, fifth, and sixth. The first, third, and fifth never made it. Clearly the list got them, because it got and sent the sixth. So it got them but didn't send them! This would seem to indicate a serious software problem somewhere at the server (xmission.com?). Fortunately, I keep carbon copies of all my outgoing mail anyways, so as soon as I become aware the problem has been rectified I shall be able to resend the three lost messages and will incur no irreperable damage at my end...unfortunately the same might not prove true for other users of the list. A software problem that eats messages without a trace, or even a bounce, and thus causes possible permanent loss of data, is serious enough that I feel it warrants being checked into at earliest convenience and at top priority, by whomever is in charge of such things at xmission... If software troubles at xmission are not something you (twegner) can directly deal with, I guess you must know who can, since you got the list set up there through somebody, and then this message should be forwarded to the appropriate technical person. Thank you... -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:09:03 -0600 Yo Paul, > Of course if it hangs on startup he won't be able to reach the "common > problems" help screen, except by going reading it or using makedoc on a > machine where it runs ok. Of course, but our friend is able to run Fractint on other machines so can read the docs. If you think I'm being silly, I hereby assign you to the mythical "Fractint Support team" and answer the questions I get. The docs may not be the best, but 99% of the questions I spend time answering are already answered in the docs. Many issues are discussed in the "Common Problems" section. Example: one of the most common questions I get is "why does going to text mode and back corrupt my image". I'm about ready to make textsafe=save the default just to avoid seeing this question. This would mean that every time you go to text mode, your graphics screen would be saved to disk. Might be better to make the default slower and safer, and have a textsafe=no or some such for folks who know our trick for leaving the graphics image intact in video memory works on their machine. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:09:03 -0600 Arrrgghhh! My "somewhwat technical note" that retracted my earlier theory was itself wrong. I'm not having a good time with this Lsys question. It turns out I have more than one sstools.ini on my system, and my developer version was picking up float=yes but my version 19.6 wasn't!!! So all that theorizing about stack was wrong. Jonathan Osuch pointed out to me that the Lsystems "SnowFlakeColor" was never broken in float mode. It's broken in integer mode. Could someone with a fast computer or a lot of patience try SnowFlakeColor at high orders such as 7 and 8, and tell me if it's OK with float=yes? I tested 6 and it worked with float=yes. It gets *really* slow at higher orders. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 05 Oct 1997 00:16:44 -0400 (EDT) textsafe=save is the most user friendly default. And, it will run perfectly fast if it saves to extended memory instead of disk. (c'mon NOBODY runs Fractint on machines with actually only 640K anymore! Or if they do, then it can always use disk as a fail safe if it doesn't detect enough ram. (Malloc returns null.) -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:20:58 -0600 Paul wrote: > Glad the problem has been resolved. See my other emabaressed note on lsys. Actually, the situation is good if it's what I now think. Just use float=yes and all is well. Snowflakecolor is only broken in integer mode, which doesn't bother me. Lots of things don't work in integer mode. > That's what I THOUGHT you said. SYCHRONOUS ORBITS?! WOOHOO! I have Synchronous Orbits working just fine in a long double version in my version. But synchronous orbits is only useful for very deep zooms right at the limit of double precision. Using long double gives an extra three orders of magnitude, but the fun won't really start until we port Synchronous Orbits to arbitrary precsion. I'm really looking forward to that. For those who don't know, the Synchronous Orbits algorithm is a huge speedup for certain deep zoomed fractals. It works by flying a number of orbits "in formation" and detecting when they start to get out of formation. The algorithm then subdivides and continues with a smaller formation, continuing until the subdivision process reaches the pixel level. This can save an enormous amount of time, because up to the point of subdivsion, the iterations of all the points inside the formation have been saved. For deep zooms this can be thousands of iterations for thousands of pixels. It's not clear how well Synchronous orbits will work with other than mandelbrot and Julia, but I'm planning on implementing it generally, at least for the types supporting arbitrary precision. Tim > > > -- > .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] > -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" > `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] > Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 04 Oct 1997 23:25:07 -0600 Paul suggested: Paul wrote: > textsafe=save is the most user friendly default. And, it will run > perfectly fast if it saves to extended memory instead of disk. Actually, that's a good idea. Jonathan Osuch added the needed functions to use extended memory in just that way. That's a good application of his functions, I'll look into it. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Date: 05 Oct 1997 00:31:34 -0400 (EDT) > >Paul suggested: >Paul wrote: > >> textsafe=save is the most user friendly default. And, it will run >> perfectly fast if it saves to extended memory instead of disk. > >Actually, that's a good idea. Jonathan Osuch added the needed >functions to use extended memory in just that way. That's a good >application of his functions, I'll look into it. > >Tim Don't forget disk-video modes. They use disk or ram as optimal. Probably textsafe=save can be implemented essentially the same way. For that matter it's a fact that RAM accesses faster than video, so normal video fractals perhaps could compute to RAM and be updated to screen on a timer, say every half second? The speedup might be noticeable. Faster fractals on faster machines the bottleneck might be video writes and bank switching, although for slower fractals or slower machines, where you see a pixel... twenty seconds later a pixel... it won't matter a whit. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: VRCH78B@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES F CROCKER) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 13:50:37, -0500 Here is the result of my survey of the Lsystem SnowFlakeColor with a Pentium 90. Res Math Order 640X480 FP 5 0:34.00 640X480 INT 5 0:33.56 Few missing pieces 640X480 INT 6 4:05.36 Considerable missing 640X480 FP 6 7:11.11 1280X1024 FP 6 7:05.73 1280X1024 FP 5 34.44 1280X1024 INT 5 33.78 Missing pieces. Doesn't fit screen. 1280X1024 INT 4 3.46 Top off screen by 4 or 5 pixels. 1280X1024 INT 3 1.16 Complete. 1280X1024 FP 7 1:32:13.58 It doesn't seem that keeping integer is worthwhile. Exactly what is happening isn't clear to me. As the order goes up the figure gets progressively bigger missing pieces and more outside of the screen. The plotting seems to progress normally but random pieces get skipped. If you want to see the structure order 5 is about as high as necessary with ordinary displays. Changing the pallet to Rainbow and making the background black pleases me. The order 7 figure then is then colored pink mush. Charles Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 04 Oct 1997 15:47:02 -0500 Hi, Thierry (pronounced th-ear-ee?) I guess I could put my e-mail message in the formula, but why? As far as the zooming feature is concerned: I'm certainly no expert but if you look at a L-system fractal carefully, you will probably be able to predict what the "zoomed" result will look like: exactly what the normal 100% view will be! To see what I mean, pick any L-system fractal and start with 1itereation and look carefully at the result. Then use a 2 iteration, then 3, then 4 and so on. I think that you will see why a zooming feature in these types of fractals is unneccesary. On Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:48:16 -0400 Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> writes: > Hello Nuke. > >I have tested your "nice flower". I like it ! >I have never played with L-system, but I'm going now >to try it. Only one note: may be you can put your >e-mail in a comment in the formule ? > >And now _my_ question: why zoom fonctions are >disabled in L-system ? I cant' see a technical >reason, because I think that the complete image >is computed in the first pass (twirlling baton) >an displayed in the second pass. Is there a >guru here for an explanation ? > > Best regards from Toulouse, France > > Thierry Boudet > >------------------------------------ >Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke > Angle 32 > Axiom +++++++++X > X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X > } >------------------------------------ > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 05 Oct 1997 14:47:36 -0400 > I'm certainly no expert but > if you look at a L-system fractal carefully, you will probably > be able to predict what the "zoomed" result will look like: > exactly what the normal 100% view will be! May be, may be, me to, I'm not an expert. But in Fractint, the zoom fonctions are not only for "deep zzzzoooom", but can rotating, panning, modifying aspect ratio and 'skewing' your image. It work great for IFS. Why not for L-systems ? Think a little about it. Best regards. Thierry. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 15:03:36 -0600 Charles Crocker wrote: > Here is the result of my survey of the Lsystem SnowFlakeColor with a > Pentium 90. Thanks for testing. I know SnowFlakecolor is broken in integer mode. Looking at your results, all the float=yes cases were OK. All the remains might be for some patient soul to try orders 7 and 8. I'm not surprised, nor does it bother me, that the integer math SnowFlakeColor is broken. Anyone with a pentium should use float=yes in sstools.ini and make it the default. It's true that fractint made a name for itself with integer math, but that dates back to a trime when most PCs did not have coprocessors, and coprocessors were slower. With each chip generation, floating point performance inches closer to integer math. Thanks again for your benchmarks. Silly of me to have forgotten that SnowFlakeColor works fine with float=yes. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benno Schmid" Subject: Re: (fractint) Boundary is partially right! Date: 05 Oct 1997 14:28:53 +100 Justin wrote: > Note: I tried to send this directly to you, Benno, but the mail got > returned with > some strange error message, which follows: I have checked out all of my adresses as soon I returned from Verona and they worked fine, so I can't imagine what has happened. > > Yes, I got the files. I checked them out, and IMHO, they actually do > resemble > the border of the twindragon curve, except that the resulting curve is > actually > like one straight segment of the border of the twindragon instead of > being the > entire closed border. Justin, You're right, and although I could not believe it first, Mandelbrot's construction _is_ a part of the twin dragon border. It is in particular the line binding the two smaller copies of the dragon together. So the whole border is made up upon copies of the "skin" curve. I have not found out how many, perhaps even infinite, but the dimensions are certainly identical. > I've tried to manipulate the L-system version to make > it close, but it is difficult when I don't acually have the picture of > the original twindragon in front of me. Why don't you just print it out? > > Anyway, if I can get it to work, I'll > post it and anyone else who has any interest can check it out for > themselves. Please keep me noticed what you have found out. Benno Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 16:38:39 -0400 Tim, - Thanks for testing. I know SnowFlakecolor is broken in integer mode. - Looking at your results, all the float=yes cases were OK. All the - remains might be for some patient soul to try orders 7 and 8. I can run these tonight on my Pentium-166. (Finally replaced my Cyrix with an Intel... hoo boy does FractInt like having a fast FPU!) Order 6 worked fine in float mode here, too. - With each chip generation, floating point performance inches - closer to integer math. Now there's an understatement. :) Pentiums are faster at floating-point than integer for anything that is multiply-intensive (like fractals). 22.3 for float vs. 26.8 for integer mode, M-set zoom near the top circle, maxiter=1000. As the iterations increase, so does the speed benefit for floating-point. Even the initial M-set image is slightly faster on the FPU. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 15:55:10 -0600 Damien said: > Now there's an understatement. :) Pentiums are faster at floating-point > than integer for anything that is multiply-intensive (like fractals). 22.3 > for float vs. 26.8 for integer mode, M-set zoom near the top circle, > maxiter=1000. As the iterations increase, so does the speed benefit for > floating-point. Even the initial M-set image is slightly faster on the FPU. For this I reason I have the following "modest proposal" (don't worry, I'm not going to do this instantly, still thinking ) I want to rip out all integer code from Fractint. My reasons are 1. It is getting harder and harder to add new features to Fractint because of resource limitations. Removing all the integer code would greatly simplify things by suddenly reducing the size and complexity of Fractint. 2. When we do move to a 32 bit environment, we will have to remove integer code anyway. The integer math code is written in assembler, and not just any assembler, but medium model assembler. This code won't port easily to any other environment. Note that Xfract already supports only floating point. There are only two arguments I can think of against this. 1. There are still millions of older machines around the world without FPUs. The most recent use the 486SX chips. (I think that is a weak argument as time goes by.) 2. Artists have a huge number of images that depend on artifacts of integer math. There's no good answer to this except "keep your old copy of Fractint". I'd like comments on this. Robin Bussell's "Fractint Wish List" web page has a number of pleas to "please don't kill the DOS version of Fractint". If removing integer math extended the life of the DOS fractint would folks be for it? Removing integer math would not necessarily slow getting ports of Fractint for newer environments. What do folks think? Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Date: 05 Oct 1997 16:04:41 -0500 Hey Thierry, I'm not familiar with any of the other possiblities for the zooming features. I'll have to check it out. Can somebody help with this one: How do you set the default file in L=-system, and Formula types? Plus- Is there a way to have Fractint start at a particular fractal type, and automatically set the video, selct the file etc.. And if you tell me to use the batch mode please explain a little to get me started. (is batch mode in Factint like a batch file in DOS?) On Sun, 5 Oct 1997 14:47:36 -0400 Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> writes: >> I'm certainly no expert but >> if you look at a L-system fractal carefully, you will probably >> be able to predict what the "zoomed" result will look like: >> exactly what the normal 100% view will be! > > May be, may be, me to, I'm not an expert. But in >Fractint, the zoom fonctions are not only for "deep zzzzoooom", >but can rotating, panning, modifying aspect ratio and 'skewing' >your image. It work great for IFS. Why not for L-systems ? > > Think a little about it. > Best regards. > Thierry. > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 17:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Tim Wegner wrote: > > > I want to rip out all integer code from Fractint. My reasons are > > 1. It is getting harder and harder to add new features to Fractint > because of resource limitations. Removing all the integer code would > greatly simplify things by suddenly reducing the size and complexity > of Fractint. > Having not looked at the source I don't know how complicated this would prove, but would it be possible and feasible to isolate out the integer optimizations? Maybe there's an int=yes flag that redirects things to a giant block of integer code... presumably this would give a less tightly optimized result when running integer math, but it would let the world's 486sx owners continue, and preserve the usefullness of old artifact images. It's worth remembering that while few serious fractal lovers are still stuck on a non-FPU processor in this country, that's less true in many other parts of the world, at least judging by what I've seen on this listserv. On the other hand, it would be relatively trivial to keep the last integer version availible. I'd have to say that if there's a relatively simple way to preserve integer math as a sort of module, great, but otherwise we may as well move ahead... becuase it will make the rest of fractint development much faster and much more portable, really. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: aq936@freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Traynor) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 17:13:54 -0400 (EDT) Tim Wegner wrote: >I want to rip out all integer code from Fractint. My reasons are > Go for it! ... > >There are only two arguments I can think of against this. > >1. There are still millions of older machines around the world >without FPUs. The most recent use the 486SX chips. This makes me feel better about my 486DX. (I have a pentium 166 at work, a government job. I don't need it for anything I do at work, and it attracks thieves - one of them, on my machine alone, has already been stolen - but it sure is nice for fractals. I need to justify the expenditure of tax dollars on the damn thing somehow.) > >2. Artists have a huge number of images that depend on artifacts of >integer math. > >There's no good answer to this except "keep your old copy of >Fractint". With the recent efforts to make sure all the old versions are archived, this is not really a flippant answer at all. -- Mike Traynor People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like. Abraham Lincoln Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 15:04:07 -0600 I say ditch the integer math and let people know that the DOS-only version of fractint has a limited lifespan. Perhaps one more major release and then that's it. If people are stuck with old machines (some of my friends are) or don't want to use a windowing environment (again, some of my friends are like that), then they should use the last DOS release of fractint. Which I would imagine would be something like rev 20.x. Trying to support both DOS and windowed environments from the same code base is a problem we've discussed often and it is just such a huge pain. I think that 20 releases under DOS is pretty damn impressive! Retiring fractint from DOS would make adding new features to the code SO much easier that people might actually do it more often :) -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 18:07:17 -0500 >Could someone with a fast computer or a lot of patience try >SnowFlakeColor at high orders such as 7 and 8, and tell me if it's >OK with float=yes? I tested 6 and it worked with float=yes. It gets >*really* slow at higher orders. I've tried order 7, and it worked (at least as far as I ran it- I accidentally pushed a fn key as I was running it, and wiped it out most of the way through -- GRRR! ) Anyway, I'll run order 8 overnight tonight, and let you know the results tomorrow ( if it's finished by then on my Pentium Pro 180 ;) ) Justin --no cool signature :( -- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: henry birdseye Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 20:07:10 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Rich Thomson wrote: > > I say ditch the integer math and let people know that the DOS-only > version of fractint has a limited lifespan. Perhaps one more major If Fractint for Win could do batch animations then go for it. But my experience is that DOSFract is extremely fast and I use it for batch zooming animation all the time. ----------------- Henry S. Birdseye Video Compositing Artist, Fractal Zoomer, Raytracer, Film Collector, Techno Head, .net addict www.mich.com/~ozymand www.prodcolor.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 19:19:52 -0500 >What do folks think? >Tim I think as long as DOS lives, there should be a DOS version of Fractint, for the main reason that it seems a lot easier to develop for DOS than for Windows 95. I could be wrong, but I have been able to produce a Mandelbrot program for DOS that doesn't even put Fractint 2 to shame (no interactive zooming, no speedups, but automatic 1024x768 resolution) using Visual C++ 1.52, but I don't even know how to get started using Windows 3.1 with version 1.52 or Windows 95 using 4.0! You guys must have been super programmers to even produce a Windows version in the first place--or is it somehow easier with non-Visual C? BTW, the source code for Fractint won't compile with VC++1.52. I haven't tried Winfract yet. I wanted to add colors for truecolor mode, but 1) I don't know where to find the limit for the maximum colors and 2) It wouldn't compile anyway. Justin -- no cool signature :( -- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Francois Blais Subject: Re: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 21:51:36 +0800 At 10/5/97 3:03:00 PM, Tim Wegner wrote: >Thanks for testing. I know SnowFlakecolor is broken in integer mode. >Looking at your results, all the float=yes cases were OK. All the >remains might be for some patient soul to try orders 7 and 8. On my 486 DX-50, at 640x480, (float=yes) SnowFlake took about 5 minutes at order 7, and about 20 minutes at order 8. (about 10 minutes to compute and the same time to render) Hope this helps. -- La voix de ma contrebasse * Quebec City - Canada Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: e-j-h@juno.com (Evan J Hall) Subject: Re: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 05 Oct 1997 20:53:46 -0500 Since my e-mail service doesn't have a file send/recieve function, I wasn't able to use this par file for a while, but I now have a mime decoder, and I decoded it and attempted to look at the fractals. Unfortunately, I got errors such as "Undefined Function", "Need More ')', and "')' needs a matching '('. I haven't been able to fix these errors and I'm beginning to wonder if I need a different version of Fractint. Please help! + | :)Evan Hall | e-j-h@juno.com | My other computer is a Commodore 64 +---------------------------------------+ On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:32:08 -0400 "Damien M. Jones" writes: >--=====================_874539128==_ >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Howdy folks, > >Attached to this message is a formula file containing all the new >coloring >algorithms I have made for FractInt, for both the Mandelbrot set and >the >NovaM fractal. Many of these are variations on orbit trap types; a >few are >based on formulae Kerry Mitchell posted here recently. There are over >100 >different formulae in this file. Details as to what each formula does >are >contained in the "dmj--Read-Me-First" formula which will be the first >one >listed. Although I have only provided versions of the algorithms for >Mandelbrot and NovaM types, instructions are included on how to adapt >the >techniques to other types. Each formula is extensively commented as >well. > >Lee Skinner asked for example PARs to show some of what is possible. >I >have forty or so images produced with these formulae (and a few other >formulae that aren't ready for "prime time") so I don't really want to >post >PARs for all of them here. I hope to have most of them up on my web >gallery later today. Here are six, though, to show you what is >possible >with these techniques: (Files snipped) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean (and/or) Jaqueline" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug! Date: 05 Oct 1997 20:20:39 -0600 (MDT) On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, NOEL_GIFFIN wrote: > On the other hand, is it possible that when you unzipped the > new version of fractint, you might have used the option not to overwrite > existing versions of certain files, or as my previous note suggested, were > you one of the eager ones that picked up fractint from spanky in the > first day or two before the official release announcement? Nope. Until I downloaded 19.6 from Spanky, I hadn't had a copy of Fractint on this particular machine. And nope. I downloaded 19.6 (the first time) in July or August. But I have a theory. If one converts the version number "19.6" to alphabetic characters in the following manner (1=A, 2=B, 3=C...) the program is then renamed "Fractint SF." The reference to Science Fiction in the version number is an obvious clue. I hesitate to say any more, lest I'm silenced. --- * Brought to you by Sean and/or Jaq, and their 18 cats: * Crystal, Sputnik, Venus, Berkeley * Tinker, Evers, Chance, * Crosby, Stills, Nash, * Tigger, Pooh, Piglet, * Orion, Cursa, Spica, Polaris, and Atria. [And yes, we have children, too. Can't remember their names, though.] Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 21:29:15 -0600 Justin said: > I think as long as DOS lives, there should be a DOS version of Fractint, for > the main reason that it seems a lot easier to develop for DOS than for > Windows 95. I wasn't proposing killing the DOS version; quite the contrary, I was proposing to extend its life by eliminating integer math, thereby making room for growth. Think of fractint for DOS as a turtle that grows inside a shell that doesn't. Get's kinda tight inside the shell I'm proposing to surgically remove half the turtle to create some room for new stuff inside the fixed shell. Kinda a bad metaphor, but I guess it will do > BTW, the source code for Fractint won't compile with VC++1.52. I've lost track of version numbers, but the newest VC++'s don't even come with a conventional memory compiler. Fractint does compile fine with the last conventional memory compiler Microsoft made. It won't compile with any compiler that targets only Windows. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 21:29:15 -0600 Just a word folks. Remember that nontechnical messages are most welcome on this list along with technical ones. This note is technical, but don't be scared away if it's over your head. You're still welcome here. Rich said: > I say ditch the integer math and let people know that the DOS-only > version of fractint has a limited lifespan. > ... > Trying to support both DOS and windowed > environments from the same code base is a problem we've discussed > often and it is just such a huge pain. Let me suggest an alternative. What is a pain is *not* supporting DOS and Windowing environments together, but supporting the medium memory model and flat memory models together. If the integer math were removed from Fractint, and Fractint were ported to djgpp (the extended DOS GNU C compiler) then the DOS version could live for as long as DOS lives. That's because djgpp is a 32 bit flat memory model environment. Most code that compiles under djgpp will also compile under Linux or Unix or Win95. We could easily maintain a core of portable code and everyone would be happy. A djgpp-compiled Fractint would run on a 386 with plenty of memory. It would be slower than the old Fractint until we got the floating point assembler ported. Very possibly the assembler could work under Linux also. It's not hard to bolt a windowing environment on top of the DOS Fractint (Bert Tyler proved that). The problem is that current windowing environments are 32 bit. Of course I'm assuming we could do a major reorgaization of the underlying engine to isolate it from the GUI. The one sad thing about this is that most of Bert Tyler's original contribution would be gone if we did this - the integer math and the video. However we might be able to port the video to djgpp (maybe Bert could even be dragged out of retirement to do this), but it might be easier to use existing video libraries. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean (and/or) Jaqueline" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 05 Oct 1997 21:16:58 -0600 (MDT) On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Tim Wegner wrote: > I want to rip out all integer code from Fractint. . . . > > There's no good answer to this except "keep your old copy of > Fractint". > > I'd like comments on this. . . . What do folks think? Go for it. I run Fractint on a 386DX-33, and still I say go for it. About the only objection I can think of is that "Fractfloat" sounds silly. But, realistically, who can say that "Fractint" sounds any better? - Sean --- * Brought to you by Sean and/or Jaq, and their 18 cats: * Crystal, Sputnik, Venus, Berkeley * Tinker, Evers, Chance, * Crosby, Stills, Nash, * Tigger, Pooh, Piglet, * Orion, Cursa, Spica, Polaris, and Atria. [And yes, we have children, too. Can't remember their names, though.] Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Weird Date: 06 Oct 1997 01:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Shouldn't the mailing list intercept bounces instead of forwarding them to every darned user? >To: SMTP@PTLNORWOOD3@Servers[], twegner@MIS.Corp@PTLNORWOOD >Cc: >Subject: Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor > >Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM >error codes. > > VNM3042: twegner@MIS.Corp@PTLNORWOOD > > > >VNM3042 -- NAME NOT FOUND > > Mail cannot deliver the message for one of the > following reasons: the appropriate StreetTalk is not > available; the recipient's user name was deleted; the > recipient's name was not entered correctly. Verify > the accuracy of the name entered. If the name you > entered is a user name, check to see if the user was > deleted. If the name is correct and the user exists, > check the connections between the recipient and > the sender. > > You may see this error if you send a message to a list, > but one of the names on the list is incorrect or invalid. > Anytime a user is deleted, that user name must be > removed from all lists that contain the name. > >---------------------- Original Message Follows ---------------------- > > >I am copying this directly to twegner because the list copy may not make >it to anyone as I shall shortly explain. > >Today I rapidly sent off about six articles to the list. As usual, it was >a while before I received copies from the mailing list. But, I received >the second, fifth, and sixth. The first, third, and fifth never made it. >Clearly the list got them, because it got and sent the sixth. So it got >them but didn't send them! This would seem to indicate a serious software >problem somewhere at the server (xmission.com?). Fortunately, I keep >carbon copies of all my outgoing mail anyways, so as soon as I become >aware the problem has been rectified I shall be able to resend the three >lost messages and will incur no irreperable damage at my >end...unfortunately the same might not prove true for other users of the list. >A software problem that eats messages without a trace, or even a bounce, >and thus causes possible permanent loss of data, is serious enough that I >feel it warrants being checked into at earliest convenience and at top >priority, by whomever is in charge of such things at xmission... > >If software troubles at xmission are not something you (twegner) can >directly deal with, I guess you must know who can, since you got the list >set up there through somebody, and then this message should be forwarded >to the appropriate technical person. >Thank you... > > >-- > .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] > -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" > `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] >Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh > > > -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Ditching ints and ditching DOS Date: 06 Oct 1997 01:22:25 -0400 (EDT) I say ditch ints. I say keep DOS. It is easy to program DOS and windowing versions of the same app. What you have to do is create your own windowing frontend. A DOS version that does windowing itself (I'm working on such a thing myself for DJGPP.) A Windows version that just inline-calls functions in the windows API (interface is the same). X-Windows ditto. Macintrash(!) ditto. Thus, the only piece of code that'd have to change between environments would be the windowing stuff. It would be in a source file for each environment, the makefile would detect the environment (pre-processor flags; for example _DJGPP_ is defined in DJGPP, _Gnu_CC_ in all gnu implementations, and so forth. Or something similar anyways. It'd compile the other sources and the appropriate windowing source and link them into a binary for the platform. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 06 Oct 1997 02:02:34 -0400 Justin, - I think as long as DOS lives, there should be a DOS version of Fractint, - for the main reason that it seems a lot easier to develop for DOS than for - Windows 95. Well, that really depends on how you look at it. They are two different environments, two entirely different approaches to writing software. There are advantages to writing software for Windows that may not be entirely obvious. Yes, there is a lot more to know (like the Windows API and/or MFC) but there is also a lot you don't *have* to know, like writing video drivers. - I could be wrong, but I have been able to produce a Mandelbrot - program for DOS that doesn't even put Fractint 2 to shame (no interactive - zooming, no speedups, but automatic 1024x768 resolution) using Visual C++ - 1.52, but I don't even know how to get started using Windows 3.1 with - version 1.52 or Windows 95 using 4.0! You guys must have been super - programmers to even produce a Windows version in the first place--or is it - somehow easier with non-Visual C? I'd certainly have to say writing Windows programs without some sort of high-level development tool like MS Visual C++ or Borland C++ is masochistic. You can do it, but it's more work than not. The main issue, though, is that you just don't write a windowed app in *any* operating system the same way you write a DOS program where you control the whole machine. As I pointed out, it's a different approach to programming. If you're used to writing DOS apps, Windows programming can seem very foreign. I don't think doing WinFract required more genius than writing the original FractInt, but that's just my personal opinion. - BTW, the source code for Fractint won't compile with VC++1.52. Hardly surprising, VC++ 1.52 really isn't designed for writing DOS apps. And any version after 1.52c is strictly 32-bit; although the latest versions have a "console app", this is actually a 32-bit console thingie rather than a DOS compiler. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 05 Oct 1997 23:53:19 -0400 Evan, - Since my e-mail service doesn't have a file send/recieve function, I - wasn't able to use this par file for a while, but I now have a mime - decoder, and I decoded it and attempted to look at the fractals. This actually isn't part of your e-mail service, but the software *you* use to fetch and read your mail. Using a program like Eudora, Netscape Mail, or MS Internet Mail will decode attached MIME files automatically. (And no doubt most other software will, too.) If you are having trouble with the file, you can obtain the original here: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/misc/dmj-pub.zip - Unfortunately, I got errors such as "Undefined Function", "Need More ')', - and "')' needs a matching '('. I haven't been able to fix these errors - and I'm beginning to wonder if I need a different version of Fractint. I used a lot of IF...ENDIF constructs in this file, so you will need FractInt 19.6 to use it. Some (perhaps all) of what I did could be done without using the IF...ENDIF, but it would have been slower and a lot more cumbersome to read. As long as I'm talking about it, I have a new version (1.1) of this file that I will be posting tomorrow. This will contain a few minor fixes, a few new coloring schemes, and a PAR file that will make it a whole lot easier to get started browsing these new coloring algorithms (plus plenty of examples). Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 06 Oct 1997 09:22:05 -0400 (EDT) I'd have to agree with Damien's comments. Of course, redesigning fractint as modular and portable will add a few names to the top of the credits list; someone needs a LOT of time on their hands... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) Re: the death of DOS fractint Date: 06 Oct 1997 10:18:49 -0600 In article , henry birdseye writes: > If Fractint for Win could do batch animations then go for it. But my > experience is that DOSFract is extremely fast and I use it for batch > zooming animation all the time. I don't see any reason why a windows version of fractint couldn't do batch operations just as fast. In fact, since the code would be moved entirely to a 32-bit instruction base, it might even go faster. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Date: 06 Oct 1997 10:21:13 -0600 Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vmsb.csd.mu.edu> writes: > I think as long as DOS lives, there should be a DOS version of Fractint, for > the main reason that it seems a lot easier to develop for DOS than for > Windows 95. Its the reverse, actually. The DOS version suffers from so many memory management hassles that its nearly impossible to add new code or algorithms with any significant memory usage. > I could be wrong, but I have been able to produce a Mandelbrot > program for DOS that doesn't even put Fractint 2 to shame (no interactive > zooming, no speedups, but automatic 1024x768 resolution) using Visual C++ > 1.52, but I don't even know how to get started using Windows 3.1 with > version 1.52 or Windows 95 using 4.0! The visually oriented tools (especially C++ tools) now are eliminating much of the drudgery of writing windows applications, letting you focus on the problem at hand. However, writing a small mandelbrot program under DOS is totally different from trying to add something to the existing code base of fractint. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Perry Subject: (fractint) Problems under Solaris Date: 06 Oct 1997 12:36:48 -0500 (CDT) I'm trying to compile the latest xfractint for UNIX under Solaris 2.5 using gcc 2.7.2. At link time I'm getting a bunch of messages similar to: bigflt.o(.text+0x4b18): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bigflt.o: In function `scale_10': bigflt.o(.text+0x55b0): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bigflt.o(.text+0x57bc): more undefined references to `_fmemmove' follow biginit.o: In function `init_big_pi': biginit.o(.text+0x1ae4): undefined reference to `_fmemcpy' bignum.o: In function `convert_bn': bignum.o(.text+0x324): undefined reference to `_fmemcpy' bignum.o(.text+0x394): undefined reference to `_fmemcpy' bignum.o: In function `unsafe_div_bn': bignum.o(.text+0x16b4): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bignum.o(.text+0x16c8): undefined reference to `_fmemset' bignum.o(.text+0x16f0): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bignum.o(.text+0x1704): undefined reference to `_fmemset' bignum.o(.text+0x17ac): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bignum.o(.text+0x17d8): undefined reference to `_fmemset' bignum.o(.text+0x182c): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' bignum.o(.text+0x1840): undefined reference to `_fmemset' bignumc.o: In function `clear_bf': bignumc.o(.text+0x29c4): undefined reference to `_fmemset' and on and on... Any help would be greatly appreciated! John Perry - perry@texmicro.com Texas Microsystems (713) 541-8200 Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor (not anymore) Date: 06 Oct 1997 12:39:21 -0500 -----Original Message----- Hardly surprising, VC++ 1.52 really isn't designed for writing DOS apps. And any version after 1.52c is strictly 32-bit; although the latest versions have a "console app", this is actually a 32-bit console thingie rather than a DOS compiler. So, are you saying that I should have bought Borland C++ instead of Visual C++ 4.0 (which includes 1.52)? Or does that also have the same backwards compatibility problem (which is, there is none?!) Justin Kolodziej "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for PC's :( 2. I can't afford a SUN and I'd have to buy a server :( :( :( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows (or LINUX) app in your local software store?! ;)" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Problems under Solaris Date: 06 Oct 1997 13:46:58 -0400 (EDT) John Perry wrote: > > I'm trying to compile the latest xfractint for UNIX under Solaris 2.5 > using gcc 2.7.2. At link time I'm getting a bunch of messages similar to: > > bigflt.o(.text+0x4b18): undefined reference to `_fmemmove' ... > and on and on... Any help would be greatly appreciated! > I guess suggesting you run Linux instead of Solaris wouldn't constitute help... :) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Problems under Solaris Date: 06 Oct 1997 11:51:53 -0600 In article , John Perry writes: > I'm trying to compile the latest xfractint for UNIX under Solaris 2.5 > using gcc 2.7.2. At link time I'm getting a bunch of messages similar to: Check the configuration header files; specifically port.h which defines the following macros: #define _fmemcpy memcpy #define _fmemset memset #define _fmemmove memmove They should be defined for xfractint. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor (not anymore) Date: 06 Oct 1997 16:11:36 -0500 -----Original Message----- Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vmsb.csd.mu.edu> writes: > I think as long as DOS lives, there should be a DOS version of Fractint, for > the main reason that it seems a lot easier to develop for DOS than for > Windows 95. Its the reverse, actually. The DOS version suffers from so many memory management hassles that its nearly impossible to add new code or algorithms with any significant memory usage. > I could be wrong, but I have been able to produce a Mandelbrot > program for DOS that doesn't even put Fractint 2 to shame (no interactive > zooming, no speedups, but automatic 1024x768 resolution) using Visual C++ > 1.52, but I don't even know how to get started using Windows 3.1 with > version 1.52 or Windows 95 using 4.0! The visually oriented tools (especially C++ tools) now are eliminating much of the drudgery of writing windows applications, letting you focus on the problem at hand. However, writing a small mandelbrot program under DOS is totally different from trying to add something to the existing code base of fractint. -- end of original message -- OK, OK, I admit it! I'm not even a novice programmer, so of course programming for Windows seems impossible. I can, however, see your point about visual tools making it easier to porgram the problem at hand (no more programming the user interface!) and DOS being impossible to manage memory with (I suppose using protected mode makes it worse). I guess where I get lost is where the program gets segmented into classes, header files and the like. Maybe I'll learn how to do that stuff in my programming class next semester, but seeing that we'll use QuickC, I doubt it... Of course, I could take extra programming classes and minor in computer science to go with my major in electrical and computer engineering, but by then the feature I want to add to Fractint (TRUE COLOR) will probably have been added! Like Bob Dole says, "I just can't win!" Justin Kolodziej "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for PC's :( 2. I can't afford a SUN and I'd have to buy a server :( :( :( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows (or LINUX) app in your local software store?! ;)" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Hine Subject: (fractint) CALCWAIT w/Truecolor=yes? Date: 06 Oct 1997 15:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Howdy all, I'm making significant progress on my (not so) little program to allow unattended zooming with fractint; there are only a few bugs to work out before I throw the source and exec up on my web page for you all to break! One of these bugs is that FractInt's CALCWAIT autokeyword doesn't seem to work when truecolor=yes is specified... I am playing around with throwing some extra time in after the fractal is rendered (using the WAIT keyword), but so far, I've been unsuccessful in creating a Targa file from an autokey file... that is, one that's not corrupt. If anyone is able to accomplish this, please let me know/show me your autokey file... I'll keep working on it, too. Thanks for any help, Jason (Spidey) Hine _ __ ___ ____ _____ ______ _______ ______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ _ __ ___ ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Jason N Hine ___ __ _ _ __ ___ GIS Specialist ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Colorado State University ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Pedology and Soil Information Systems Lab ___ __ _ _ __ ___ (970) 491-6832 ___ __ _ _ __ ___ http://boralf.agsci.colostate.edu/~jason ___ __ _ _ __ ___ jason@cnr.colostate.edu ___ __ _ _ __ ___ ____ _____ ______ _______ ______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dirk Meyer Subject: Re: (fractint) the death of DOS fractint Date: 07 Oct 1997 02:14:24 +0200 Tim Wegner wrote: > If [...] Fractint were ported to djgpp (the > extended DOS GNU C compiler) then the DOS version could live for as > long as DOS lives. That's because djgpp is a 32 bit flat memory model > environment. Most code that compiles under djgpp will also compile > under Linux or Unix or Win95. We could easily maintain a core of > portable code and everyone would be happy. I think that's right. If Fractint would be ported to DJGPP, memory would be no problem. And it would be no disadvantage for portability, especially to Linux, because DJGPP is mostly the same as GCC on Linux (only a few changes for DOS...) My experience with DJGPP (ver 1) is, that it produces faster code than real mode compilers, and a DJGPP version is almost for sure faster than a windows version. It's not my opinion what Rich Thomson wrote: > I don't see any reason why a windows version of fractint couldn't do > batch operations just as fast. In fact, since the code would be moved > entirely to a 32-bit instruction base, it might even go faster. DJGPP is also 32 bit, and there would be no "resource eating" windows in background (if you kept an old DOS 6.2 version on your PC...). Besides Linux, DOS is my favourite operating system, because it is simple and fast and the user has a maximum of control over the system (which you can't say of win95...) So, please, keep Fractint for DOS alive (in new clothes)! Dirk Meyer. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Date: 06 Oct 1997 20:08:08 -0500 Hey try this in "Formula" type. I did it and zoomed into there far right and also in the upper center area. Really cool, and alot more chaotic in the upper area zoom than in the right area zoomed. Comments? Nuke1 (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = 0 c = pixel ; basic mandel upto here d = pixel: ;add new variable z = (z*z + c) / d ; slightly altered computation, highly different results } "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: e-j-h@juno.com (Evan J Hall) Subject: Re: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 06 Oct 1997 17:47:05 -0500 >This actually isn't part of your e-mail service, but the software >*you* use >to fetch and read your mail. Using a program like Eudora, Netscape >Mail, >or MS Internet Mail will decode attached MIME files automatically. >(And no >doubt most other software will, too.) I use Juno because it's free e-mail, and free is quite a bit cheaper than anything else I've seen. >If you are having trouble with the file, you can obtain the original >here: > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/misc/dmj-pub.zip > That's where the problem comes in. Juno is e-mail only. No Internet. I do, however, have friends that can get it for me, and I plan on doing that. >I used a lot of IF...ENDIF constructs in this file, so you will need >FractInt 19.6 to use it. Some (perhaps all) of what I did could be >done >without using the IF...ENDIF, but it would have been slower and a lot >more >cumbersome to read. > Again, no Internet, but I can have a friend get me the file. Thanks! + | :)Evan Hall | e-j-h@juno.com | My other computer is a Commodore 64 +---------------------------------------+ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Date: 06 Oct 1997 09:34:42 -0700 Paul wrote: >You're telling me this guy really used 1 billion maxiter?! Oh course. Paul, it is simple and if you use solid guessing it is not so bad. I listed earlier some tricks to get the part of the image you want to see done first. It involves panning left and right to get Fractint to work on a narrow slice of the image. If you like what you see, then let the rest fill in. With period checking, very few smaples go to 1 billion. Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Weird Date: 06 Oct 1997 23:19:36 -0600 Paul wrote: > Shouldn't the mailing list intercept bounces instead of forwarding them to > every darned user? Hmmm - and then you quoted the same message that went (again!) to every darned user List administration issues are hereby declared off topic for several reasons: 1. List administration IS off topic. 2. Most folks are probably not interested, and in any case no one except me can do anything about it. 3. I need to hear about list administration issues, and might easily miss messages posted to the list. Just email me directly with questions or suggestions about list administration. I'm quite pleased with the way the list is going, thanks to everyone for participating. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kathy roth Subject: (fractint) printing Date: 07 Oct 1997 00:22:10 -0700 Hi. I'm really new to this and think fractint is a great program. I have been trying to print and only have been able to print in black and white. I have not found anywhere to set printing options. The printer is printing everything but fractint in color. I am running version 19.6 and using an Epson Stylus 800 printer. Thanks. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JulianPA@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Integer Math Date: 07 Oct 1997 03:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Tim Wegner asks: If removing integer math extended the life of the DOS fractint would folks be for it? I say by all means go ahead. And by all means continue with what will be necessary to eventually bring Fractint up to 32 bit also. Julian Adamaitis julianpa@aol.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (fractint) printing Date: 07 Oct 1997 10:39:41 -0400 At 12:22 AM 10/7/97 -0700, kathy roth wrote: >Hi. I'm really new to this and think fractint is a great program. I >have been trying to print and only have been able to print in black and >white. I have not found anywhere to set printing options. The printer >is printing everything but fractint in color. I am running version 19.6 >and using an Epson Stylus 800 printer. Thanks. The printing capabilities of fractint are quite rudimentary. I don't think many people print directly from fractint. You are much better off using a third party program. If you are running Windows, get the shareware program PaintShop Pro. It is easy to use and does a great job of printing fractals on my Deskjet 870. Nick nick.grasso@hrads.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) printing Date: 07 Oct 1997 09:47:03 -0500 kathy roth wrote: > Hi. I'm really new to this and think fractint is a great program. I > have been trying to print and only have been able to print in black and > white. I have not found anywhere to set printing options. The printer > is printing everything but fractint in color. I am running version 19.6 > and using an Epson Stylus 800 printer. Thanks. > Congratulations, you've found the one thing about Fractint that isn't great. This is a common complaint among new users of Fractint. The best advice that has come up on this newsgroup is: Don't use Fractint for printing! You're much better off saving the image as a .GIF fie and using an image editor to print. I hear Paint Shop Pro works great; it's shareware and you should be able to find it on the Internet. I hope this helps. Justin Kolodziej "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris doesn't work on PCs :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation :( :( :( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local computer store?! ;)" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Hine Subject: (fractint) FractFloat? Date: 07 Oct 1997 08:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Howdy... Just my two cents concerning the debate over whether or not to continue support for a DOS version of Fractint... I say produce perhaps one or two more versions, and then cease the DOS version. There are a few bugs/improvements that I'd like to see corrected/implemented (mostly concerning truecolor support and speed improvements... go synchronous orbits!!!), resulting in an even-more-awesome-than-it-already-is fractal generation program which almost anyone can run on almost any machine... I have not done any windows (i.e., VB) programming, but I am beginning to understand the usefulness of having predefined interface libraries and such... just my two cents' worth! Jason (Spidey) Hine Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Hine Subject: (fractint) Truecolor Autokey Question Date: 07 Oct 1997 09:15:25 -0600 (MDT) --31c_58ba-785c_5140-42f_470a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: 2CZA95ecd6Sf+KhFerXCow== X-Sun-Data-Type: text Howdy all, I messed around with my autokey problem last night for a couple hours, but was unable to determine the source of my problem... so I'm still looking for advice/help! Below is the autokey file produced by my program... if you want to run it, you're going to need to first save an image of the Mandelbrot set, calling it 'deeper' (GIF is implied, remember...). Don't set a viewwindow size (do it at a standard rez, maybe SF5), since there's currently a problem when Fractint tries to write out a viewwindowed Targa file. My problem is that I can't get a complete ITERATES.TGA file out of Fractint when it's running an autokey file. Any comments/suggestions/jibes are greatly appreciated, Jason (Soon to visit Massachusetts) Hine In basic English: Get past credits Turn sound off Restore DEEPER.GIF Create zoombox and move to new pixel location (determined by my program) Save image with zoombox showing as d0000000.gif Turn truecolor option on Increase iterations Change savename to 'deeper' Set file overwrite to yes Render new, zoomed image Save image Quit out of Fractint --31c_58ba-785c_5140-42f_470a Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=deeper.key Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: Yd+iIfvyuXBU6mlDxjL0Qw== Content-Description: deeper.key Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=deeper.key ENTER "g" "sound=off" ENTER "r" "deeper.gif" ENTER ENTER CALCWAIT PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP PAGEUP RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 RIGHT WAIT 0.3 DOWN WAIT 0.3 "x" DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN "d0000000.gif" ENTER WAIT 0.3 "s" CALCWAIT "g" "truecolor=yes" ENTER CALCWAIT "x" DOWN DOWN WAIT 1 "505" DOWN DOWN DOWN "deeper" DOWN "y" ENTER ENTER CALCWAIT WAIT 8 "s" WAIT 2 ESC ESC "y" --31c_58ba-785c_5140-42f_470a-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike or Linda Allison" Subject: (fractint) Re: Date: 07 Oct 1997 09:13:34 -0700 Hi, Peter! I don't think I ever saw an answer to your question, so I'll give it a go! When you are in Fractint, load one of your favorite fractals. Then hit "b". On the first line, give your par file a name (pfj.par ?). On the second line, give your fractal a name (fract001 ?). Add any comments (copyright Peter Jakubowicz ?) and hit enter. You just generated a par file! Load another favorite, hit "b," leave the par file name the same, and on the second line enter the second fractal's name (fract002 ?). Hit enter. You have two par files (fract001 and fract002) in the file named pfj.par When you exit DOS back to Windows, you can open pfj.par as a text file, see the par file you generated, copy it, upload it, whatever! Very simple! Linda Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 07 Oct 1997 15:33:18 -0400 Howdy folks, Just wanted to let everyone know that an update version of my FRM for new coloring methods has been placed on my web site. This contains slight adjustments to the formulae to address the color drop-out problem Kerry Mitchell pointed out, and a few tweaks to the smooth coloring algorithm (and all formulae that incorporate it). I have also included a PAR file that makes getting started with these formulae easier. Rather than select a new fractal type, and having to remember which other settings need to be used (outside=real, decomp=256, periodicity=no), you can select the corresponding PAR file entry and have everything set for you. There are also a few more examples in the PAR file. You can download the ZIP file containing FRM and PAR from this URL: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/misc/dmj-pub.zip If you don't use this URL, the file is a little hard to find--there IS a link, but it's obscure. I intend to fix this, but wanted to let interested folks know the new file is available. Those who do not have web access but would still like the file can e-mail me and I will send it as an attachment. If you have trouble with attachments, I can send it as plain text--but the plain text is 200K, and the ZIP file is only 15K. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) the death of DOS fractint Date: 07 Oct 1997 10:33:55 -0600 In article <34397EE0.7A511611@studbox.uni-stuttgart.de> , Dirk Meyer writes: > DJGPP is also 32 bit, and there would be no "resource eating" windows > in background (if you kept an old DOS 6.2 version on your PC...). I didn't say windows was less resource hungry than DOS; I said that 32-bit code is likely to be faster than 16-bit code. This is my understanding for modern processors anyway (pentium). -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Date: 07 Oct 1997 16:33:15 -0500 Want a novice opinion? Pleeese write a 32 bit "windows" version of Fractint. I don't care what you call it! It seems that ediingt formulas and such could be done alot easier and faster using pop-up windows for entering new information. Plus, I wouldn't have to close fractint and edit my formula (simple as they are) and re-open fractint, select display, type etc... I could just leave Fractint open and maximize, edit,minimize, then try my changes. This would be great for us who use trial and error more than mathematical planning. ANNNND. What is the big deal with snowflakecolor with float=yes. I tried it with my pentium 166 and it only took about 2.5 minutes at the sixth iteration. And I didn't see any missing pieces. I didn't go any higher. ANNND since you said it was o.k. to ask simple questions here's one: Do you mean delete integer math in favor of real numbers ( 1,2, 3 versus 1.0, 2.0, 3.0)? I use real numbers all the time when I play around, is fractint just ignoring me? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: (fractint) Re: your mail Date: 07 Oct 1997 18:02:48 -0400 (EDT) newstedclan@juno.com wrote: > ANNND since you said it was o.k. to ask simple questions here's one: > Do you mean delete integer math in favor of real numbers ( 1,2, 3 versus > 1.0, 2.0, 3.0)? > I use real numbers all the time when I play around, is fractint just > ignoring me? In the bad old days, most computers lacked a math-coprocessor (or floating-point processor) optimized for real numbers instead of integers. If you passed an instruction down to your processor that basically said "compute 3.5*2.0", it would run whole orders of magnitude slower than "compute 4*2". A sorry, sorry state of affairs for fractals. Fractint slipped around this speedbump by converting all floating-point (or 'real') numbers to integers before doing the math. Of course this limited the precision of the operation and hence the maximum zoom before you switched back into floating-point mode; if you dig up an old PC and start zooming in on the M-set, you'll see a sudden slowdown at a certain magnification. It introduced a few artifacts of the technique and added a great deal of nonportable, complicated DOS code. But it ran much, much faster than other fractal engines of the time. With the advent of the 486DX, math-coprocessors became built-in hardware; in a modern pentium, fractint doesn't really gain speed this way, to my knowledge. So if we consider only what's best for relatively new PCs, and if we don't worry about the very very large workload of virtually rebuilding the fractint source code, it's definitely time to do away with integer math. On the other hand, there are a lot of 486SX or less users out there. On the gripping hand, they can still use old versions of fractint if they want. Me, I think it's time to move forward... assuming we find some willing victims to plow through every last bit of code... BTW, for those who've made it this far, can we PLEEZE promise to base this code in GNU C++ and not proprietary Microsquish stuff? and consider writing win95 interfaces with Borland or someone, just to preserve the free and open tradition fractint represents against the evil onslaught of microsoft Everything? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Date: 07 Oct 1997 16:06:22 -0600 In article <19971007.163316.10118.0.newstedclan@juno.com> , newstedclan@juno.com writes: > ANNNND. What is the big deal with snowflakecolor with float=yes. I tried > it with my pentium 166 and it only took about 2.5 minutes at the sixth > iteration. And I didn't see any missing pieces. I didn't go any higher. With L-systems, the computation time tends to go up exponentially, rather than linearly. That is why at order 7 you should expect it to go significantly longer than 2.5 minutes. (I think people reported it going at about 12 minutes on a P166). > ANNND since you said it was o.k. to ask simple questions here's one: > Do you mean delete integer math in favor of real numbers ( 1,2, 3 versus > 1.0, 2.0, 3.0)? > I use real numbers all the time when I play around, is fractint just > ignoring me? Ultimately everything in the computer is either a 1 or a 0. "Integer math" refers to using instructions that manipulate integer quantities. If you take the number 1.5 and multiply it by a scale factor, like 10000, then you have 15000, an integer. Using integer arithmatic with a scale factor in this fashion is called "fixed point", because of the scale factor, you have a fixed number of digits to the right of the decimal point when you do computations in integer arithmatic. Fractint uses integer math and fixed-point arithmatic when it can to avoid the more costly floating point instructions. Until the 486 generation of machines, floating point instructions were emulated in software unless a hardware coprocessing chip was installed in the machine. Thus, if an integer add operation had a normalized cost of 1, a floating-point add operation would have a normalized cost of 10 without the coprocessor. (The numbers here are for the purposes of explanation and have no bearing on the actual cost of such operations on a specific processor.) "Floating point" operations carry around two quantities for each number -- the mantissa and the exponent. The mantissa maintains the significant digits of the quantity and the exponent is used as a scale factor to increase the dynamic range of the representable quantities. Think of a number in "scientific notation", like 6.023 x 10^23; the mantissa is "6.023" and the exponent is "23". Most modern microprocessors have hardware accelerated floating point operations, and so the advantage of using fixed-point arithmatic and integer instructions isn't as great as it used to be. However, once you get to arbitrary precision calculations, they tend to be implemented as a chain of integer math instructions operating on the separate digits of the arbitrary precision quantity. Most CPUs have integer performance (in terms of calculations/second) that exceeds their floating point performance. So fractint isn't ignoring your fractional numbers when you input them, but if the numbers are within the range where fractint can use its integer math code to perform the computation (and float=no), then it will use a fixed-point algorithm. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) Re: Date: 07 Oct 1997 17:12:37 -0500 newstedclan@juno.com wrote: > ANNNND. What is the big deal with snowflakecolor with float=yes. I tried > it with my pentium 166 and it only took about 2.5 minutes at the sixth > iteration. And I didn't see any missing pieces. I didn't go any higher. The big deal WAS with float = no. As we've found out, snowflakecolor works perfectly with float = yes, even at levels 7 and 8. (Level 8 took 9 hours 14 min 40.02 seconds on my Pentium Pro 180 at 1024x768x256!) Just use float=yes and you'll be fine. > ANNND since you said it was o.k. to ask simple questions here's one: > Do you mean delete integer math in favor of real numbers ( 1,2, 3 versus > 1.0, 2.0, 3.0)? > I use real numbers all the time when I play around, is fractint just > ignoring me? Not really. Fractint uses real numbers all the way through. It's just when Fractint goes to calculate the image, it does some programming hocus-pocus to represent real numbers (1.24...) as integer types in the program (74593 or whatever it comes out to). This was great when math coprocessors were expensive and not widely used, as integer math ran MUCH faster on the 386 than floating-point math did (calculating numbers while keeping track of a decimal point). However, times change, and the Pentium series does floating-point math as fast as (if not faster than) integer math with its built-in math coprocessor. So integer math doesn't help very much now, and that's why the programmers are thinking about dumping it. I hope this cleared things up, and if it doesn't, or I've made some serious error somewhere, Tim should be able to help much more than I can. After all, he's one of the programmers! Justin Kolodziej "I only use windows because: 1. Solaris doesn't run on PCs :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a workstation AND a server :( :( :( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store ?! ;)" -- Me Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: (fractint) MFC vs. OWL Date: 07 Oct 1997 23:05:26 -0400 Ian, - BTW, for those who've made it this far, can we PLEEZE promise to base - this code in GNU C++ and not proprietary Microsquish stuff? The core of FractInt--the fractal calculation routines, speedup algorithms, coloring techniques, formula parser, etc.--can be written in 32-bit code without dependence on *any* particular compiler, even Gnu C++. Interface stuff and screen-access stuff will of course be different on each platform. - and consider writing win95 interfaces with Borland or someone, just to - preserve the free and open tradition fractint represents against the evil - onslaught of microsoft Everything? So rather than use proprietary Microsoft interface class libraries (MFC), you'd rather use proprietary Borland interface class libraries (OWL), to make a *political* statement? Sorry, this seems rather silly. If you want to write the interface with OWL instead of MFC, that's fine, but I would hope you have a better reason than "I hate Microsoft". Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) MFC vs. OWL Date: 07 Oct 1997 23:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Damien M. Jones wrote: > > Ian, > > - BTW, for those who've made it this far, can we PLEEZE promise to base > - this code in GNU C++ and not proprietary Microsquish stuff? > > The core of FractInt--the fractal calculation routines, speedup algorithms, > coloring techniques, formula parser, etc.--can be written in 32-bit code > without dependence on *any* particular compiler, even Gnu C++. Interface > stuff and screen-access stuff will of course be different on each platform. > Granted. Looking back, I'm not quite sure what I was referring to. gotta stop posting when half-asleep... > - and consider writing win95 interfaces with Borland or someone, just to > - preserve the free and open tradition fractint represents against the evil > - onslaught of microsoft Everything? > > So rather than use proprietary Microsoft interface class libraries (MFC), > you'd rather use proprietary Borland interface class libraries (OWL), to > make a *political* statement? Sorry, this seems rather silly. If you want > to write the interface with OWL instead of MFC, that's fine, but I would > hope you have a better reason than "I hate Microsoft". > Well, if you grant that there's no really non-proprietary way to code a win95 interface, I'd rather use Borland sort of the way you support your local grocery man, all other things being equal. I don't have direct evidence that their windowing libraries are sounder than microsoft's, but I do feel I'm on good ground claiming that other, more easily measurable aspects of Borland's compiler are stabler, better designed and better optimized, and that the average microsoft product has an awful lot of bugs that look like they're of the 'software team just didn't care' variety, as opposed to the 'really hard bug to get rid of' variety. That's somewhat shaky argument, of course. But I wasn't really volunteering for the thankless task of writing win95 interfaces, though if my bosses stop keeping me at work eleven hours a day, I might sign up to do XWindows... at any rate, my thanks for pinning me when I was talking out of my arse. I deserved it. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) the death of DOS fractint Date: 07 Oct 1997 23:38:16 -0400 (EDT) >I didn't say windows was less resource hungry than DOS; I said that 32-bit >code is likely to be faster than 16-bit code. This is my >understanding for modern processors anyway (pentium). 32 bit code != Windows code. I have written 32 bit apps in DOS myself. DJGPP is the key. Also, modular code and interface libraries does not mean Windows either. (See other tangent threads.) -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: (fractint) Real-vs-Integer Date: 08 Oct 1997 10:59:05 -0500 Thanks for the answers to my question concerning integer math! it actually helped me understand it! Did anyone try my deranged m-set NukerBrot? later, Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael C Taylor Subject: Re: (fractint) MFC vs. OWL Date: 08 Oct 1997 13:24:05 -0300 (ADT) On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Damien M. Jones wrote: > - BTW, for those who've made it this far, can we PLEEZE promise to base > - this code in GNU C++ and not proprietary Microsquish stuff? > > The core of FractInt--the fractal calculation routines, speedup algorithms, > coloring techniques, formula parser, etc.--can be written in 32-bit code > without dependence on *any* particular compiler, even Gnu C++. Interface > stuff and screen-access stuff will of course be different on each platform. I think that a possible goal for fractint 30.0 :) would be to have one common source code tree, a la gcc or most gnu products, which could help keep development of multiple targets closer (DOS, MS-Windows, X-Windows). > So rather than use proprietary Microsoft interface class libraries (MFC), > you'd rather use proprietary Borland interface class libraries (OWL), to From a development pov, current Borland and Watcom C++ compilers ship with MFC libraries, so using MFC does make more sense. Though if the 'fractint developer's compiler of choice' was a freely available compiler such as djgpp it has the added advantage of younger programmers (i.e. students) would be more likely to contribute since often they cannot afford commerical compilers such as Visual C++ or C++Builder. I know that as a student I couldn't even afford the academic pricing of Visual C++, but could afford to FTP (free) djgpp. Since I'm not actually a fractint contrib, I don't hold my own opinion as very meanful. -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Edward Avis Subject: (fractint) RE: removing integer code from fractint Date: 08 Oct 1997 17:49:49 +0100 IMHO removing integer calculation from fractint would be a really bad idea. Over the years, processor manufacturers had put a great deal of effort into impoving the floating point performance of their chips. For example, all Intel x86 chips now have an FPU as standard whereas ten years ago it would have been a costly extra. From the 486 to the Pentium, integer performance was only doubled at most (for the same clock speed) but floating point was more than three times as fast. However, the boom predicted some years ago in floating-point heavy applications has not materialized. CAD, computer animation and so on use just as much floating-point muscle as they ever did, but for the vast majority of users almost all applications are integer-based. Chip manufacturers are beginning to realize this and refocus on integer performance rather than floating-point. Already, we have cheap Pentium-alikes which skimp on the FPU to cut costs - yet for almost all everyday use, they are just as fast. What I am saying is, just because right now it is faster to use floating-point on a Pentium II than to use integers, in five years' time integer speed may have caught up again. So don't burn your bridges. -- Ed Avis Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Hine Subject: (fractint) Re: Which compiler(s)... Date: 08 Oct 1997 10:50:54 -0600 (MDT) >On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Damien M. Jones wrote: > >> - BTW, for those who've made it this far, can we PLEEZE promise to base >> - this code in GNU C++ and not proprietary Microsquish stuff? >> (snipped much of Michael's comments...) > >Though if the 'fractint developer's compiler of choice' was a freely >available compiler such as djgpp it has the added advantage of younger >programmers (i.e. students) would be more likely to contribute since often >they cannot afford commerical compilers such as Visual C++ or C++Builder. > >I know that as a student I couldn't even afford the academic pricing of >Visual C++, but could afford to FTP (free) djgpp. In my opinion, this is a valid consideration. I'm dismayed at how few of my fellow students are aware of Fractint, but it would be great if those who are could use the free DJGPP compiler (which is what I'm using) to write their contributions... oth the other hand, perhaps there aren't enough financially-disadvantaged-students-who-would-be-contributors out there to make it worthwhile, if there is some _great_ advantage to using a Visual package (not compatible with DJGPP) intead... my three dracmas' worth... PS - anyone have any ideas on my truecolor autokey problem? Anyone??? Peas, Jason (Spidey) Hine _ __ ___ ____ _____ ______ _______ ______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ _ __ ___ ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Jason N Hine ___ __ _ _ __ ___ GIS Specialist ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Colorado State University ___ __ _ _ __ ___ Pedology and Soil Information Systems Lab ___ __ _ _ __ ___ (970) 491-6832 ___ __ _ _ __ ___ http://boralf.agsci.colostate.edu/~jason ___ __ _ _ __ ___ jason@cnr.colostate.edu ___ __ _ _ __ ___ ____ _____ ______ _______ ______ _____ ____ ___ __ _ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: removing integer code from fractint Date: 08 Oct 1997 13:17:00 -0400 (EDT) Edward Avis wrote: > Chip manufacturers are beginning to realize this and refocus on integer > performance rather than floating-point. Already, we have cheap > Pentium-alikes which skimp on the FPU to cut costs - yet for almost all > everyday use, they are just as fast. That's a bit of a stretch. The K6, say, does test slower than the equivalent pentium II on floating-point, but it's still running floating-point faster than any earlier-generation chip; and I'd really guess that while the exact performance ratio between the two modes will vary over time, I think we can continue to expect them to advance at similar rates. Considering the sheer overhead associated with int math, I don't think that there are many situations where people will want to run in float=no, any more than they do now... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ramiro Perez Subject: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 08 Oct 1997 12:48:48 +0500 (GMT) Hello Here is an example of a small utility (20k zipped) that I write for fractint 19.6, for inverting the ifs attractors defined in the fractint ifs files, and rewritting it for fractint formula types and for fractint par files. It takes a fractint ifs file, scan it, then if there is an ifs definition, and if it isn't 3D ifs and has less than 9 transformations, the program writes the formula and its correspondient par file.. The program is in my web pages, in the gallery section, but if you wish to go directly, here is the address: http://www.utp.ac.pa/~rperez/ifsinv.html By the way, this program is a new release of an old one that I have for the same work, but this one if far more simpler and this time the program optimizes the formulas, so it runs faster than the old one.. Any comment will be greatly appreciated.. Ramiro Perez ps. sorry for the bad english.. frm:f2_J{ a0=0.01000,d0=0.16000, a1=0.20000,b1=-0.26000,c1=0.23000,d1=0.22000, a2=-0.15000,b2=0.28000,c2=0.26000,d2=0.24000, a3=0.85000,d3=0.85000, al0=0.00160, al1=0.10380,k1=-0.13000,l1=-0.10000, al2=-0.10880,k2=0.14000,l2=0.07500, al3=0.72250,l3=-0.59500, z=pixel: x=real(z) y=imag(z) o0=(d0*x)/al0+flip((a0*y)/al0) op0=|o0-p2| o1=(d1*x-b1*y+k1)/al1+flip((-c1*x+a1*y+l1)/al1) op1=|o1-p2| o2=(d2*x-b2*y+k2)/al2+flip((-c2*x+a2*y+l2)/al2) op2=|o2-p2| o3=(d3*x)/al3+flip((a3*y+l3)/al3) op3=|o3-p2| IF (op0 Subject: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 08 Oct 1997 15:10:49 -0400 Hello World. I'm using Fractint 19.6 on a 486dx33/CGA. I have make a few tests on my configuration. In general, float is faster or equal than integer, but there was differences between the two modes. Recently M.L. Newsted Jr. have posted a little formula who behave differently in int or in float. And I'm working on a long term project with this formula : frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com ; 19 Juillet 1997 z = rand: z = fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); |z| <= real(p1) } who works very fine (for me :-) in integer mode, but is completly broken in float mode... Here is a sample parameter. Try it in real and integer mode, and play with the formula. rand seems broken in float mode. demo_of_rand_bug { ; created Oct 08, 1997 in Toulouse reset=1960 type=formula formulaname=rand_generic function=recip/sqr passes=1 center-mag=0.0260181/0.0209436/0.5956599 params=6/0 inside=zmag outside=real biomorph=64 } May be with only one math mode in Fractint, this type of problems will go in a "bug-eater-black-hole" ... Best regards from Toulouse, France. Thierry Boudet. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) Real-vs-Integer Date: 08 Oct 1997 14:32:39 -0500 On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:27:47 -0400 (EDT) aq936@freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Traynor) writes: >>Did anyone try my deranged m-set NukerBrot? > >I tried it a bit, and found that it is very like a mandebrot with >inversion radius 1 (on the "Y" screen). It appears just the same at >low >zooms using FP. It is more different with integer math, but that >seems to >be an integer math artifact. If you have any images from this fractal >which are truly different from the mandelbrot, in FP, could you post >the >parameters to the list (or send them to me). I don't have the time, >or >recall my complex math well enought to figure it out, but the Nuke may >be >arithmetically the same as the inverted Mandelbrot. Maybe someone >else >will let us know. > >-- >Mike Traynor > >People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing >they like. > Abraham Lincoln > Honestly, I am just now beggining to wrote my own fractals, and obviuosly I based that one on the Mandelbrot. But I thought it "was" quite different than an ordinary Mandelbrot. Especially when I zoomed. It seemed to me more chaotic than the "smaller mandels in smaller mandels in smaller mandels etc.." My fractal and some more that I have writen seem to me to not be quite so symetrical. And isn't that the point? Still, I will certainly not try to correct anyone on this subject. I am still learning. thanks, Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Muth Subject: (fractint) Remove integer math? Date: 08 Oct 1997 19:09:45 -0400 (EDT) I vote yes. I've been following the thread about the future of Fractint with interest, especially about whether to retain the integer code. My feeling is to go ahead, dump the integer code, and make room for more advanced features, but keep the DOS version as long as DOS lives. (And as long as a program such as Fractint for DOS exists, DOS will live.) I run Fractint on a 486-100mhz machine, and I notice very little speed advantage when integer math is used. In fact, on many fractals, floating math is quite a bit faster. I realize that some fractal artists have created images based upon the artifacts of integer math, and would not be able to reproduce these images if integer math were not available. These artists could merely keep an old version of Fractint with integer math capability on their disks, and use it whenever they wished to work with their integer fractals. I admit to being a DOS fan, (I'm writing this in WordPerfect 5.1). I stayed with DOS when everyone was turning to Windows because it is *fast*! When I open WP51, I need only blink my eyes and I'm ready to go. When I open a Windows app, I have time to go to the next room, pour a drink, and return to my desk before I'm ready to work. Also, when I'm running DOS, I feel as though I am actually con- trolling the computer, while Windows makes me feel as though someone else were doing it for me. But these are my personal opinions, and I realize that DOS, with all its limitations, just can't compete with the windowed environments. I therefore do use Windows in my business, but I do so only because the programs I need are not available for DOS. That said, I must report a small bug I have found in version 19.6 of Fractint. I have noticed that whenever I try to set the ranges to a value greater than 32767, I get the error message, "I couldn't understand the argument" Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I don't think so. . . Jim Muth jamth@mindspring.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 08 Oct 1997 20:27:17 -0500 Hey Thierry. I checked out your fractal you sent out. It "was" different in FP! I also used Bio-morph (256) and it looked pretty cool. I'm not sure what you mean by posting the parameters, maybe you could explain it or send an example. Anyway, thanks for trying the one I sent out. Here is another: Egg (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = 0 c = pixel d = pixel: z = (z*z + c) / d } Well, see ya. Hey What's the weather like in Toulouse? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 15:10:49 -0400 Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> writes: > Hello World. > > >I'm using Fractint 19.6 on a 486dx33/CGA. I have make a few >tests on my configuration. In general, float is faster or >equal than integer, but there was differences between the >two modes. Recently M.L. Newsted Jr. have posted a little >formula who behave differently in int or in float. > >And I'm working on a long term project with this formula : > >----------------------------------------------------------- >frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** > ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com > ; 19 Juillet 1997 > z = rand: > z = fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); > |z| <= real(p1) > } >----------------------------------------------------------- > >who works very fine (for me :-) in integer mode, but is >completly broken in float mode... > >Here is a sample parameter. Try it in real and integer >mode, and play with the formula. rand seems broken in >float mode. > >----------------------------------------------------------- >demo_of_rand_bug { ; created Oct 08, 1997 in Toulouse > reset=1960 type=formula > formulaname=rand_generic function=recip/sqr passes=1 > center-mag=0.0260181/0.0209436/0.5956599 params=6/0 > inside=zmag outside=real biomorph=64 > } >----------------------------------------------------------- > >May be with only one math mode in Fractint, this type of >problems will go in a "bug-eater-black-hole" ... > > > Best regards from Toulouse, France. > > Thierry Boudet. > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 08 Oct 1997 20:27:17 -0500 Hey Thierry. I checked out your fractal you sent out. It "was" different in FP! I also used Bio-morph (256) and it looked pretty cool. I'm not sure what you mean by posting the parameters, maybe you could explain it or send an example. Anyway, thanks for trying the one I sent out. Here is another: Egg (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = 0 c = pixel d = pixel: z = (z*z + c) / d } Well, see ya. Hey What's the weather like in Toulouse? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke On Wed, 8 Oct 1997 15:10:49 -0400 Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> writes: > Hello World. > > >I'm using Fractint 19.6 on a 486dx33/CGA. I have make a few >tests on my configuration. In general, float is faster or >equal than integer, but there was differences between the >two modes. Recently M.L. Newsted Jr. have posted a little >formula who behave differently in int or in float. > >And I'm working on a long term project with this formula : > >----------------------------------------------------------- >frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** > ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com > ; 19 Juillet 1997 > z = rand: > z = fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); > |z| <= real(p1) > } >----------------------------------------------------------- > >who works very fine (for me :-) in integer mode, but is >completly broken in float mode... > >Here is a sample parameter. Try it in real and integer >mode, and play with the formula. rand seems broken in >float mode. > >----------------------------------------------------------- >demo_of_rand_bug { ; created Oct 08, 1997 in Toulouse > reset=1960 type=formula > formulaname=rand_generic function=recip/sqr passes=1 > center-mag=0.0260181/0.0209436/0.5956599 params=6/0 > inside=zmag outside=real biomorph=64 > } >----------------------------------------------------------- > >May be with only one math mode in Fractint, this type of >problems will go in a "bug-eater-black-hole" ... > > > Best regards from Toulouse, France. > > Thierry Boudet. > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) (Fwd) BOUNCE fractint@xmission.com: Non-member submission f Date: 08 Oct 1997 22:48:15 -0600 I was shocked to learn a few months ago that Microsoft C++ does not support 80bit long double floats! I asked on the C++ newsgroup and it was confirmed. So why would Fractint move to the current VC++ and take a hit like that? What is the corresponding support from Borland C++ 5.0x Borland C++Builder? Watcom C++? DJGPP compiler? Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) Administrator out of town Date: 08 Oct 1997 22:48:15 -0600 Yeah I know I said list administration issues were off topic, but here I go violating my own suggestion Actually I overstated the case, there probably are some list administration messages of general interest that would be on topic. Hmm ... if all list administration messages are off topic, then a message stating that as the policy would be off topic I'll be out of town until Sunday. The list can go on merrily as always, I'm just alerting you all in case anyone needs any special list administration services. I won't be able to help with any special requests until Sunday. Just a reminder, this list only accepts postings from addresses that majordomo recognizes as a fractint list subscriber. Sometimes postings bounce because folks have posted from a different account, or from some reason the return address is different than the subscribed email address. For isolated cases I usually just post such bounced messages by hand, so you may not have noticed. When I'm really on the ball I also let folks know it happened, especially if it happens several times. This is not a big problem for most people, although it was bothersome for a couple of folks who have "anti-spam" return addresses. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Real-vs-Integer Date: 08 Oct 1997 17:13:55 -0700 Nuke wrote: >Did anyone try my deranged m-set NukerBrot? I did and here is my reply, second try, first one is lost in bitspace. :-( There is a one to one mapping of the regular Mset to this view. Everything is there, just jammed into a different space. Jay 10/7/97 Newsted wrote about his nuke formula. I played with that some years ago. It is simpler to do this: frm:Nuke2 (xaxis) { ; Jay Hill z = 0, c = pixel: ; basic mandel up to here z = (z*z/c + 1) ; insideout eye shaped MSet } nuke2_view { ; Jay Hill reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nuke2.frm formulaname=Nuke2 center-mag=1.34919/5.96e-006/0.4962412 colors=0D0000<15>9Tx<22>36Q25P24N13M12K00I<15>001000000<2>800B00F10<4>T3\ 0W40Z50a60c70<2>jB0lC0mD0oE0<2>tJ0vK0wM0xN0<4>zV0zW0yT0<2>sJ0qF0nE0mE0<6\ >T50Q30O30<3>E10C00B00<10>100000100200<5>B0AD0CE0F<20>k0w<7>N0QK0MJ0L<17\ >401000<2>010020040<26>0d00f00e0<23>0B0090080060050030020000000 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Conformal Mappings and Beautiful Mandelbrots Date: 09 Oct 1997 00:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Ever noticed a sort of beauty and symmetry to mandelbrots and fractals from complex number formulas lacking in real-real formulas like some of the ones in The beauty Of Fractals? My suspicion has been it is because complex mappings are conformal: right angles are preserved. For instance, look at the square of (a+bi). The real part is a^2-b^2, the imaginary part 2ab. These equations both describe hyperbolas; the families of hyperbolas defined setting x^2-y^2 const and 2xy const are orthogonal families, they cross at right angles. An idea of mine has been this: Start with an implicit differential equation. dy/dx=f(x,y). Solve it. (Yes this can be tough.) Then solve the inverse dy/dx=-1/f(x,y). Their solution sets will be orthogoanl families of curves. Or, get a function such as f(x,y)=const. Get dy/dx. Negate and invert and solve the differential equation as before to get a curve family g(x,y)=const orthogonal to the curves f(x,y)=const. Now imagine defining a map from R2 (real by real cartesian plane) to R2 by x'=f(x,y), y'=g(x,y). This is a conformal map. A combination of several such conformal maps and adding a paremeter or three might produce worthwhile Julia/Mandelbrot sets. For example, take the ellipses x^2+2y^2=const. 2x=-4y(dy/dx) so dy/dx is -x/2y. Put dy/dx=2y/x =-1/(-x/2y). This is separable: dy/2y = dx/x. Integrate both sides: 1/2ln |y| = ln |x| + C or, taking exponentials of both sides, root y = xe^c or y=Kx^2, a family of parabolas. So the mappings would be: x'=x^2+2y^2, y'=y/x^2 (solving for K=y'). Try them out I'd love to hear the results. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shauna Jones" Subject: (fractint) Re: Date: 08 Oct 1997 20:15:42 -1000 On 7 Oct 97 at 16:33, newstedclan@juno.com spoke about : > It seems that ediingt formulas and such could be done alot easier and > faster using pop-up windows for entering new information. Agreed ... > Plus, I wouldn't have to close fractint and edit my formula (simple > as they are) and re-open fractint, select display, type etc... I > could just leave Fractint open and maximize, edit,minimize, then > try my changes. This would be great for us who use trial and error > more than mathematical planning. I don't have that problem. Of course, I use OS/2 ... Whatever revisions happen to Fractint, I hope it will still run in a DOS session under OS/2. Another blast of bits from David Visit our boring web page: http://www.aloha.net/~shauna Visit the Hawaii Astronomical Society: http://www.hawastsoc.org For the best Hawaii & Pacific Basin surf forecast: mailto:hisurf@aloha.net Random Thought for this Nanosecond If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Kolodziej <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Real-vs-Integer Date: 08 Oct 1997 18:44:28 -0500 >I don't have the time, >or >recall my complex math well enought to figure it out, but the Nuke may >be >arithmetically the same as the inverted Mandelbrot. Maybe someone >else >will let us know. > >-- >Mike Traynor I worked on the formula a bit, and came up with the following: z(n+1)=(z*z)/c + 1 or, if you substitute 1/c for c, z(n+1)=c*z*z + 1 This last formula is the same (I hope) as inverting the original by a circle centered on (0,0) with radius 1. The resulting picture looks like the M-set, but why would that be? Any Ideas? Justin Kolodziej "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris doesn't run on PCs :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation :( :( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local computer store? ;) " Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ethel MacKay" Subject: (fractint) DOS Versions of Fractint Date: 09 Oct 1997 22:34:38 +0000 We are new to the Fractint mailing list and although we do not understand most of what you have been talking about, because we don't write fractal formulas and such, we just wanted to put our two bits in about whether Fractint should continue in DOS versions in future. We say yes, continue to ALWAYS make DOS versions! There are probably many people like us that prefer the simplicity of DOS Fractint versions over Windows or who don't have pcs that are up to running resource hungry Windows versions. My 64 year old husband is the main Fractint user here. I taught him to use the computer and run Fractint when he read Chaos theory and got interested in the Mandlebrot Set. He started with version 17.1 and now has version 19.6. He tried the Windows Version and he hated it. The Windows themselves kept distracting him and he soon went back to the DOS version. We started running fractals on a 386 and now have a Pentium 133 with lots of memory. To summarise: DOS programs in the case of Fractint (and Povray) are much easier to use for people who are not all that happy about using computers but use them only because there are programs like Fractint (and Povray) for DOS which they get great enjoyment from. Regards to all, Ethel MacKay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: guy.marson@mnhn.lu (Guy Marson) Subject: (fractint) TYPE=JULIBROT Date: 09 Oct 1997 17:07:56 +0200 --=====================_876434876==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, In the Fractint Wish-list Justin Kolodziej asket for "no more integer math"... The poorly known TYPE=JULIBROT fractals are able to build beautiful 3d stereo-pairs, but only in integer-math. Setting the FPU=ON, causes flat 2d fractals (except for those orbits wich use functions like sin, cos, tan and cotan). To give you an idea, I attachet a .par file to this mail.. Sorry, but all the Julibrots are very slow-running even on a P200! To see the difference, switch on and of the FPU with the letter . If you like to see the fractals 3-dimensional, the stereo-pairs and/or the 2x3 and 5x5 pairs must be fused like the "magic-eye" pictures that means, with the eyes in parallel or, if indicated, with the eyes crossed, that means: the left eye is looking to the right side and the rigth eye is looking to the left side.. be patient, it mostly works after a while 8~( - :) To build some "parallel-eyes" 3d fractals, the "Z" screen option must be negative, a positive number for builds "crossed-eyes" 3d fractals.. So please Stone-Soupers keep up the option: FPU ON/OFF.. even if the difference (in the JULIBROTS: FPU ON/OFF) results in a programming fault do not correct this "fault" thanks in advance! enjoy experimenting with the JULIBROTS.. ;) Guy --=====================_876434876==_ Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="3D-TOTAL.PAR" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="3D-TOTAL.PAR" (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :$$0%,9429%&-,P""8J"849K8G(4iG!!!!!"@'!!!!!#,[$0N,A"KDA)J)#!J)#! 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Does the number of iterations play a role in it? > than 9 transformations, the program writes the formula and its Why 9? > comment will be greatly appreciated.. As I did. > ps. sorry for the bad english.. That I don't see. My native language is Dutch. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Some questions about the par. > f2J { ; t=4 > type=formula formulafile=ifs.frm formulaname=f2_J > params=10000/0/0.004/2.375 float=y corners=-8/8/-1/11 > } What = t? Params = ??/??/?? What are these numbers in plain English? No MaxIter in the par file. Does this parameter plays a role in generating a nice image? What is in your opinion a good color file? I'm not good in generating good colorpalette's. Groetjes, Wim de Lange _____________________________________ Internet: wdelange@biochem.nl CompuServe: 100142,604 _____________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Burger Subject: (fractint) Removing integer math from Fractint? Wait a minute.... Date: 09 Oct 1997 16:55:34 +0200 ***this is a repost. third attempt, actually. havent got a clue what the problem is. my adress seems to be allright*** On the subject of removing integer code from Fractint, Tim Wegner wrote: > There are only two arguments I can think of against this. > > 1. There are still millions of older machines around the world > without FPUs. The most recent use the 486SX chips. > > (I think that is a weak argument as time goes by.) > > 2. Artists have a huge number of images that depend on artifacts of > integer math. > > There's no good answer to this except "keep your old copy of > Fractint". > Unless I have missed something, until now I haven't heard much comment on the second argument. One of my favorite images features this so called artifact. I have stored it in the first of the two parameterfile-entries that follow. I have stored the same image with option float=yes in the second entry. As you can see, float=yes or float=no makes quite a difference. (please read on after this parameter section) -------8<------------------------------------ floatno { ; (c) 1997 Jacco.Burger@BU.TUDelft.nl reset=1730 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=richard1 passes=1 float=n corners=-0.81683618/-0.55938143/0.797761261/0.68775022/-0.67134571/0.603\ 740633 maxiter=900 inside=0 logmap=yes potential=255/350/500 colors=222C6E<44>KRILSJMTI<14>FCBEAAEBA<12>MRLNSMOUNPVORWQ<12>lmknomnnl<\ 29>R3C<14>LJFKLGLMH<13>ecYge_ge_<13>gdVhcUgbT<13>JBFH9DHAD<13>TQQUSRVSR<\ 13>nURpVSpVS<13>e_Sd`Td`TdaT<10>ahUC5EC5EC5E } floatyes { ; (c) 1997 Jacco.Burger@BU.TUDelft.nl reset=1730 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=richard1 passes=1 corners=-0.81683842/-0.55938598/0.797753176/0.687746147/-0.67134795/0.60\ 3736559 float=y maxiter=900 inside=0 logmap=yes potential=255/350/500 colors=222C6E<42>KQIKRIKRILSJMTIMSI<13>FCBEAAEBA<11>LQKMRLNSMOUNPVO<13>l\ mknomnnl<29>R3C<12>MHFLIFLJFKLGLMHNNI<10>b`WdbXecYge_ge_<13>gdVhcUgbT<13\ >JBFH9DHAD<13>TQQUSRVSR<13>nURpVSpVS<13>e_Sd`Td`TdaT<10>ahUC5EC5EC5E } ---------8<------------------------------------ Now I really don't mean to urge the developers of Fractint to keep integer math, join the Integerology Church and set fire to all PC's with 32-bit software (the old XT's and AT's with their 5'25 floppy drives probably burn better anyway). I think that if removing integer math stimulates the development of Fractint, then please do so! Just to compare, think about the development of wordprocessors. Some of you might remember Wordstar, a wordprocessor of the 80's, or the early versions of WordPerfect . Compare this to recent Window-versions of MS-Word or WordPerfect for Windows and it's like comparing the Mayflower to the Spaceshuttle. And the Spaceshuttle doesn't have sails, does it? So if it is possible to do the same kind of development with Fractint, and if this involves removing the sails of integer math, then I guess it should be done. Fractint is a wonderful program as it is, but there are so many wonderful new ideas to implement. BUT what about my poor fractals that have that integer-artifact?? With all respect, there is something about Tim's suggestion I don't like (keeping an old version of Fractint available for yourself in case you want to regenerate one of those silly old images). For example, in a future release there may be a coloring option that I want to apply on a image that has the integer-artifact. If the integer-math would have been removed, that wouldn't be possible. So here is my suggestion, at the risk of making a fool of myself because I don't know xxx about integer- and floating-point math, not to mention 32-bit software development. If somebody can find out what exactly causes the integer-artifact effect, would it be possible to simulate this effect in floating-point math and introduce this as (let's say) an outside=intmath option? Now, wouldn't that be a challenge for the real programmer!!?? This morning in the TV-news I saw a robot dancing the mambo, so if programmers can do that, then I am sure that for you guys simulating the effect of integer-math by using floating point math is a piece of cake....:-D adios, do widzenia, houdoe, bye! Jacco Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les St Clair Subject: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 09 Oct 1997 17:22:31 -0400 Hi Damien, >>Just wanted to let everyone know that an update version of my FRM for n= ew coloring methods has been placed on my web site.<< Good grief!! How long did it take for you to work that little lot out? >>I have also included a PAR file that makes getting started with these formulae easier.<< Your examples are absolutely stunning. = Thanks for sharing your work. cheers, Les St Clair Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: (fractint) Why? Date: 09 Oct 1997 19:40:49 -0500 I have a question (again) :|> Why do you use, mess with, manipulate, study, or whatever with fractals and fractint? Personally, I find them to be uncannily (real word?) natural. And lately I've been reviving my math to use it to write some rudimentary farctals of my own. But what about you people out there in Mandel land? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ramiro Perez Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 09 Oct 1997 19:44:37 +0500 (GMT) On 9 Oct 1997, Wim de Lange wrote: > "(fractint) IFS Formulas" > > > Here is an example of a small utility (20k zipped) that I write for > > fractint 19.6, for inverting the ifs attractors defined in the > > Very nice effects? Does the number of iterations play a role in it? Yes, because since they are inverse to the ifs attractors, sometimes you need more than 150 iterations to get a good image.. > > than 9 transformations, the program writes the formula and its > > Why 9? In fact 8, because more IFS transformations, larger the formula definition, and I think that fractint don't support definitions that where too large (by the way, can anyone say to me what is the limit?).. > Some questions about the par. > > What = t? Params = ??/??/?? What are these numbers in plain English? > No MaxIter in the par file. Does this parameter plays a role in > generating a nice image? What is in your opinion a good color file? > I'm not good in generating good colorpalette's. Ok, there is no maxiter nor a color definition because I prefer to leave it to the control of the user.. In the case of the t=4; that means the number of transformations, for example the Fern has 4. In the case of the Params, the first number is the bailout number,next one, nothing, and the last two are the julia-like constant for those fractals, (Yes, they are julia sets..). A better explanation is in the readme.txt that is with the program... For the colors, I noticed that these fractals needs color maps with small gradations, because in most of them the orbit tends to escape very fast.. That is why I use a bailout so large (10000!) After some manipulations to the fractals produced by my program, you can end with something interesting, for example: fernJ{ ; t=4 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=fern.par formulaname=fern_J passes=1 corners=-8/8/-1/11 params=10000/0/0.32/7.15 float=y maxiter=255 inside=255 colors=000<16>000010030<37>0x00z00z0<195>zzz } frm:fern_J{ a0=0.01000,d0=0.16000, a1=0.85000,b1=0.04000,c1=-0.04000,d1=0.85000, a2=0.20000,b2=-0.26000,c2=0.23000,d2=0.22000, a3=-0.15000,b3=0.28000,c3=0.26000,d3=0.24000, al0=0.00160, al1=0.72410,k1=0.06400,l1=-1.36000, al2=0.10380,k2=-0.41600,l2=-0.32000, al3=-0.10880,k3=0.12320,l3=0.06600, z=pixel: x=real(z) y=imag(z) o0=(d0*x)/al0+flip((a0*y)/al0) op0=|o0-p2| o1=(d1*x-b1*y+k1)/al1+flip((-c1*x+a1*y+l1)/al1) op1=|o1-p2| o2=(d2*x-b2*y+k2)/al2+flip((-c2*x+a2*y+l2)/al2) op2=|o2-p2| o3=(d3*x-b3*y+k3)/al3+flip((-c3*x+a3*y+l3)/al3) op3=|o3-p2| IF (op000k00m01m<29>0ky0mz1mz<30>zzz<46>2zz0zz0yz<45>02z00z00y\ <59>002000000 } Suerte! Ramiro Perez Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) potpourii Date: 09 Oct 1997 19:42:56 -0500 Just a few comments on a few subjects, mostly because I feel too lazy to reply to the different threads ;): 1. Maybe there is a place for integer math in Fractint. It certainly has its supporters, as you all can see. I hereby amend my wish list post to read as follows: Instead of "no more integer math," how about "floating point math as default?" This would satisfy the traditionalists, while the rest of us who prefer float = yes get it automatically! I know you can edit the SSTOOLS.INI file to get it automatically, but I said I was lazy, remember? 2. Where do I get DJGPP?????? 3. What's with the quat orbit in the julibrot type? When I try to run it from, let's say, cj=-1 to cj=1, I get a sphere! This can't be right because when I check the regular quat type between those two extremes, the results certainly are NOT circles! What's going on here? Is it my fault or Fractint's? 4. Try this: it's a generalized Nuke1: SuperNuker {;Justin Kolodziej ;mod. of Mr. Newstead's Nuke1 z = 0 c = pixel d = fn2(pixel): z = (fn1(z)+c)/d } Justin Kolodziej "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris doesn't run on PCs :( 2. I can't afford an Ultra SparcStation 3 :( :*( :-( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jakubowicz Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Date: 09 Oct 1997 22:30:06 -0700 > Very simple! Thanks kindly, Linda. It works, of course. I may try to post some formulas soon, but can anyone tell me if there is some index of .frm files somewhere, so I can check to see if I am merely reinventing someone else's? Also, I am considering plunking down $50 at my local bookstore for a copy of The Science of Fractal Images, which I think I have seen referred to here a few times. Is this a good book? I am trying to learn more, more, more of the technical stuff and am looking for lots of math formulas to play with. Perhaps something has been written since that is better? Any help wld be appreciated. Peter > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Evin C Robertson Subject: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 10 Oct 1997 00:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Well, I say keep the integer math. Despite what some people have said, integer math is, in general, faster than floating point, with a few exceptions. On the regular pentium and pentium MMX, floating point multiplication is faster than integer multiplication. On everything else (P-pro, PII, K6, each better than the regular pentium and pentium MMX), integer multiplication is faster than floating point. The problem Fractint has now with integer math is that it's running in 16-bit mode, so every 32 bit operation requires prefixes which can slow things down. Just porting fractint to 32 bits and keeping the integer math would speed it up. DJGPP and NASM, please... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wdelange@biochem.nl (Wim de Lange) Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 10 Oct 1997 08:08:27 GMT Op 9 Oct 97 om 19:44 schreef owner-fractint@xmission.com over: "Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas" > Yes, because since they are inverse to the ifs attractors, sometimes > you need more than 150 iterations to get a good image.. Ah, in that case I' m going to edit the par file the program generates. I'm using PARTOBAT for automatically generating the pictures. > In fact 8, because more IFS transformations, larger the formula > definition, and I think that fractint don't support definitions that > where too large (by the way, can anyone say to me what is the > limit?).. So if this limit is higher than you expect, you are gonna to rewrite the program :-) > Ok, there is no maxiter nor a color definition because I prefer to > leave it to the control of the user.. In the case of the t=4; that Ok. that means I must do the work myself ;-) Oh well, that is the fun to fractint. Isn't it? > means the number of transformations, for example the Fern has 4. In I thought so, but I was not sure. > For the colors, I noticed that these fractals needs color maps with > small gradations, because in most of them the orbit tends to escape > very fast.. That is why I use a bailout so large (10000!) I get it. I've read the readme file now (I don't normally do that :-). And much is clearer now. Groetjes, Wim de Lange _____________________________________ Internet: wdelange@biochem.nl CompuServe: 100142,604 _____________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Martin <76440.1143@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 10 Oct 1997 07:44:16 -0400 Ramiro Perez wrote: > In fact 8, because more IFS transformations, larger the formula definition, and I think that fractint don't support definitions that where too large (by the way, can anyone say to me what is the limit?).. < Right now, a formula's text is limited to 8192 characters (not including white space and comments), and by the memory available to store the various functions and pointers to actually run the formula. The amount of memory used by a formula can be seen in the CTRL-TAB screen (while the image is drawing, hit TAB, and then CTRL-TAB for lots of information about what is going on inside fractint at the time). One of the projects for the next version of fractint is to make more efficient use of memory in the formula parser, which should result in much larger formulas being possible. George Martin Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 10 Oct 1997 07:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Evin C Robertson wrote: > > Well, I say keep the integer math. Despite what some people have said, > integer math is, in general, faster than floating point, with a few > exceptions. On the regular pentium and pentium MMX, floating point > multiplication is faster than integer multiplication. On everything > else (P-pro, PII, K6, each better than the regular pentium and pentium > MMX), integer multiplication is faster than floating point. The problem [snip] The question is, how big a speed difference are we talking about? because the advantages of moving to floating point code, in terms of shrinking the code and getting into a compile-anywhere situation, are considerable... Actually, we can measure this, can't we? Would people with non-pentium chips of all kinds care to submit some sample times with float=no and float=yes? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael C Taylor Subject: (fractint) today's fractal fortune Date: 10 Oct 1997 09:39:55 -0300 (ADT) No plain fanfold paper could hold that fractal Puff -- He grew so fast no plotting pack could shrink him far enough. Compiles and simulations grew so quickly tame And swapped out all their data space when Puff pushed his stack frame. (refrain) Puff, he grew so quickly, while others moved like snails And mini-Puffs would perch themselves on his gigantic tail. All the student hackers loved that fractal Puff But DCS did not like Puff, and finally said, "Enough!" (refrain) Puff used more resources than DCS could spare. The operator killed Puff's job -- he didn't seem to care. A gloom fell on the hackers; it seemed to be the end, But Puff trapped the exception, and grew from naught again! (refrain) Refrain: Puff the fractal dragon was written in C, And frolicked while processes switched in mainframe memory. Puff the fractal dragon was written in C, And frolicked while processes switched in mainframe memory. -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) potpourii Date: 10 Oct 1997 07:58:34 -0500 > Where do I get DJGPP?????? Yeah! Where do I get DJGPP? And what hte heck does it stand for??? >3. What's with the quat orbit in the julibrot type? When I try to >run >it from, let's say, cj=-1 to cj=1, I get a sphere! This can't be right >because when I check the regular quat type between those two extremes, >the results certainly are NOT circles! What's going on here? Is it >my >fault or Fractint's? Hunh? >4. Try this: it's a generalized Nuke1: >SuperNuker {;Justin Kolodziej >;mod. of Mr. Newstead's Nuke1 >z = 0 >c = pixel >d = fn2(pixel): > z = (fn1(z)+c)/d >} Thanks!, I just discovered the fn1 option the other day, It's the sort of thing I've been looking for so I can write a general form and play with it.(Remember I'm a beginner (:{() P.S. My name has no "A" in it. it's Newsted. Am I picky or what? Thanks again, Merel L. Newsted Jr. (Nuke) >Justin Kolodziej > >"I only use Windows because: >1. Solaris doesn't run on PCs :( >2. I can't afford an Ultra SparcStation 3 :( :*( :-( >3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local >software >store?! ;)" > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: (fractint) Books Date: 10 Oct 1997 07:58:23 -0500 Peter, Have you seen Mandelbrot's "The fractal geometry of Nature" ? (or somethinglike that) I thinks it's out of print, but you might be supprised what you can find at a used bookstore. Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael C Taylor Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Date: 10 Oct 1997 10:05:51 -0300 (ADT) On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, Peter Jakubowicz wrote: > copy of The Science of Fractal Images, which I think I have seen > referred to here a few times. Is this a good book? I am trying to learn > more, more, more of the technical stuff and am looking for lots of math The Science of Fractal Images is a "technical coffee table" book. Great for us mathematical types to leave lying around our houses, so guests can say, "I cannot belief that little equation generates That!" It is a very nice book, I picked up a copy and was quite impressed with it. Depends on what sort of mathematical knowledge you seek, if you want to begin at the beginning, it isn't the right place. G.A. Edgar's _Measure, Topology, and Fractal Geometry" or Barnsley's _Fractals Everywhere_. Both are aimed at the 3-5 year Physics, Math, CS, or Engineering undergrad student. If you don't fit in that category, Devaney's _Chaos, Fractals, and Dynamics_ might be a better place to start. -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael C Taylor Subject: Re: (fractint) potpourii Date: 10 Oct 1997 10:15:07 -0300 (ADT) On Fri, 10 Oct 1997, Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: > > Where do I get DJGPP?????? > > Yeah! Where do I get DJGPP? And what hte heck does it stand for??? DJGPP is a port of the GNU C/C++ gcc compiler to DOS. It was ported by DJ, and you cannot have ++ in a DOS name, hence DJGPP. DJGPP is freely available from http://www.delorie.com/ for documents and pointers to the actual files. It is intended primaryly for experienced (UNIX) programmers, not necessary for the faint of heart. It is not fractal software! (I'll save your several MBs of downloading...) -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: (fractint) Friday(monday) Date: 10 Oct 1997 09:02:39 -0500 Ever have one of those days when you correct someone's misspelling of your last name , AND THEN you misspell your own FIRST name in the message?! I'm MERLE not MEREL, and a big dunce too! signed, and spell checked, MERLE L. NEWSTED JR. (Nuke) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Hine Subject: Re: (fractint) Why? Date: 10 Oct 1997 08:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Nuke, Why not?.... ;) I suppose everyone has different reasons for being interested in fractals; perhaps some of us are in it for the artistic qualities they have, others for the bizarre (and therefor often 'natural') mathematical correlations that can be found in them, and still others (I'm in this flow) percieve analogies between fractal concepts and long-held beliefs in subjects like science and religion. Certainly we are all fascinated by fractals, and this fascination urges us to find applications and relevancies between fractals and our world. If you browse through some of the recent issues of _Science_, you can find examples of applied fractal theory, and even recognize fractal concepts hidden in articles where the author might not have even heard of fractals! Another reason some of us are into these things is that it is a fairly new field, and there is much room for discovery... it's easier to be on the 'cutting edge' of fractology (?!) than it is to be on the cutting edge of, say, molecular biology. Hope I haven't spoken too much for anyone/everyone else; I'd be interested in reading other folk's answers to Nuke's question. Spidey Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: r.hopkins@ic.ac.uk Subject: (fractint) XFRACT and making it work Date: 10 Oct 1997 15:51:23 BST Recently I posted about having trouble making xfract work. This has now been fixed. It was necessary to add -DBIG_ANSI_C to the $(DEFINES) in the makefile I don't know if this was because the Makefile was broken, or because the uni's unix was duffed up. Any case, adding that fixed it. I am runing Solaris, and am using the latest XFRACT from the fractint webpages (version 3.04?) Hope this helps at someone other than me, Hoppy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 10 Oct 1997 11:05:43 -0400 > The question is, how big a speed difference are we talking about? >because the advantages of moving to floating point code, in terms of >shrinking the code and getting into a compile-anywhere situation, are >considerable... Actually, we can measure this, can't we? Would people >with non-pentium chips of all kinds care to submit some sample times with >float=no and float=yes? In regard to the float vs. integer discussion, I would like to see the integer code removed from fractint and have it ported to DJGPP. Although I don't have any benchmarks, on my old 486-33 there was no significant difference in speed between float and integer. I think the best arguement for keeping integer is that many artists rely on integer artifacts. However, as Tim has said, they can always keep an older version around. Also, wasn't there an attempt at duplicating these integer artifacts in the formula parser? Isn't this what floor and ceil are supposed to do? How well does this work? Nick nick.grasso@hrads.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) dmj-pub.frm Date: 09 Oct 1997 23:54:43 -0400 Les, - Good grief!! How long did it take for you to work that little lot out? Actually, not that long. A lot of it is cut-and-paste, else I never would have managed to write 100 fully-commented formulae. :) You'll notice the PAR file is far less commented. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wdecker@csc.com Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 10 Oct 1997 08:47:05 -0400 It's nice to see some IFS discussion going on. I'd like to let you know of another IFS 'utility' for fractint that I've been working on. It's a Windows screensaver that has the ability to create text for a fractint par file based on its current IFS image. I recently added a 'mutate' ability that lets the viewer see what happens as the transformation set changes. If you run on a Windows system and you're interested, take a look at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/1450 where you can download the saver and a set of par formlulae for some interesting images it generated. Because of the coloring scheme I use to translate the saver images to fractint, you'll find that the minimum number of transforms is 12 :'( Bill Decker >Hello > >Here is an example of a small utility (20k zipped) that I write for >fractint 19.6, for inverting the ifs attractors defined in the fractint >ifs files, and rewritting it for fractint formula types and for fractint >par files. It takes a fractint ifs file, scan it, then if there is an ifs >definition, and if it isn't 3D ifs and has less than 9 transformations, >the program writes the formula and its correspondient par file.. >The program is in my web pages, in the gallery section, but if you wish to >go directly, here is the address: >http://www.utp.ac.pa/~rperez/ifsinv.html >By the way, this program is a new release of an old one that I have for >the same work, but this one if far more simpler and this time the program >optimizes the formulas, so it runs faster than the old one.. >Any comment will be greatly appreciated.. > > > Ramiro Perez > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 10 Oct 1997 14:00:54 -0400 Hi Thierry, >> And I'm working on a long term project with this formula : >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** >> ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com >> ; 19 Juillet 1997 >> z =3D rand: >> z =3D fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); >> |z| <=3D real(p1) >> } >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >> who works very fine (for me :-) in integer mode, but is completly >> broken in float mode... The following formula works with float=3Dyes: frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com ; 19 Juillet 1997 z =3D srand(z): z =3D fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); |z| <=3D real(p1) } Cheers, - Sylvie Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix (Jason) Bunke" Subject: Re: (fractint) Books Date: 10 Oct 1997 19:10:55 -0700 Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: > > Peter, > Have you seen Mandelbrot's "The fractal geometry of Nature" ? (or > somethinglike that) I thinks it's out of print, but you might be > supprised what you can find at a used bookstore. > > Nuke > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List > Post Message: fractint@xmission.com > Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" > Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net > Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" Yes, it is still available. www.amazon.com has it for only $28. I've ordered from them before, and i would wholeheartedly recommend their services. It's always interesting to go back to the source and learn directly from "Big Poppa" Mandelbrot! By the way, this is my first posting. I'm a new graduate student at the mathematics dept. of the Georgia Institute of Technology, and you guys have definitely kept my new account very busy! For a very thorough, rigorous and technical book on the mathematical theory behind fractal geometry, Kenneth Falconer's book "Fractal Geometry: Mathematical Foundations and Applications" is probably the most complete and best-written book of that sort that I have found so far. By the way, I'm looking at possibly concentrating in dynamical systems, fractals and the like during my studies, which is what led me to Georgia Tech -- the home of the Center for Dynamical Systems and Nonlinear Studies and the former stomping grounds of Michael Barnsley, whose book "Fractals Everywhere" is actually used in a course I may try to take next quarter. Happy bookhunting! Plus, I agree with the comment on used bookstores -- I've found some real gems at those places! -- Felix Bunke (bunke@resnet.gatech.edu) (Sorry, I haven't learned yet how to put links in my e-mail -- I haven't had it for very long!) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 10 Oct 1997 15:09:02 -0400 [NOTE: This is somewhat technical material. Non-programmers should skip this message.] Evin, - Well, I say keep the integer math. Despite what some people have said, - integer math is, in general, faster than floating point, with a few - exceptions. OK, to clarify the point: on an Intel Pentium, the FPU multiply of 64x64 (mantissa only, exponents are just added) occurs with one-cycle throughput rather than 10-cycle throughput for a 32x32 integer multiply. This is the most common case where the FPU is faster. Other cases are square roots (70 vs. a few hundred, depending on your integer algorithm) and trig or log functions (huge differences). For adding and subtracting, the FPU is *slower*. These instructions have one-cycle throughput on the FPU, but integer instructions on the CPU have throughput of half a cycle (two are executed in one cycle). Thus if your process involves a lot of addition and subtraction, and very little else, you are unlikely to benefit from moving things into the FPU. Division is also about the same speed (39 vs. 41 cycles). It is the disparity between the multiplies and the trig/log functions that makes this such a compelling option, because they play such a large role in fractals. I had a Pentium Pro machine here up until last week, and I spent quite a bit of time generating fractals on it. As far as I could tell, floating-point performance still outran integer performance by a considerable margin. I would dispute the claim that integer multiplies are again faster until I have seen comparative benchmarks that indicate otherwise. MMX will probably not help fractals much. It is true that the MMX multiply is fast--one cycle to do four 16x16 multiplies--but the catch is, it is ONLY a 16-bit multiply. Sixteen bits of precision just doesn't get you very far in fractals; and while it is possible to use this for extended precision, it is highly unlikely to be faster than the FPU's 64x64 multiply, especially when you factor in the rest of the work that needs to be done. - On everything else (P-pro, PII, K6, each better than the regular pentium - and pentium MMX), integer multiplication is faster than floating point. Unfortunately Intel hasn't (to my knowledge) published basic cycle counts for Pentium Pro and Pentium-II instructions. The last published counts I have are for Pentiums. However, the trend from 386 through Pentium is for FPU speed to increase drastically, and integer multiplies to increase only moderately. (13-18 cycles on a 486, 10-11 for Pentium, for integer; 16 cycles on a 486, 1 on a Pentium, for FPU.) I'd be very surprised if the PPro and P-II had radically redesigned integer multiplies, given that overall their performance is not leaps and bounds above Pentiums of the same clock speed. Various indications I have received are that AMD's K6 processor does not *quite* have the FPU performance of their Intel counterparts, but they are still much faster with FPU stuff than Cyrix processors. And even on a Cyrix 6x86, where FPU operations (including multiply) take 4-9 cycles, and multiplies take 4-10, the FPU routines in FractInt are marginally faster even for plain Mandelbrot. Cyrix's 6x86MX processors (the "M2") have the only slightly better FPU performance than the original 6x86. (And I also test in 32-bit protected mode to verify this.) - The problem Fractint has now with integer math is that it's running in - 16-bit mode, so every 32 bit operation requires prefixes which can slow - things down. Actually, the problem FractInt has is that multiply instructions (IMUL and MUL) are *not* pairable instructions on the Pentium, and so not only do they consume 10-11 cycles each, but they *also* prevent other instructions from running at the same time. On the PPro and P-II, the assignment of instructions to available execution pipes is better, preventing one complex instruction from blocking simple instructions that are not dependent on it, but MUL and IMUL are still complex instructions, and there is only one complex instruction pipe. Thus you are still blocked, waiting for those three multiplies for Mandelbrot iteration to go through. Even on a Pentium, the cycle penalty for executing an instruction with a size prefix is only one cycle; compared to the 30 it takes to do your multiplies, this is not enough to account for the discrepancy between integer and FPU math times. - Just porting fractint to 32 bits and keeping the integer math would - speed it up. DJGPP and NASM, please... Yes, it would speed it up. But it would also speed up the FPU routines slightly (which also have to deal with a few integer things, while the FPU is cranking) and the speed-up on the integer side would still not make up for the difference. Would you like to see who can write the fastest 32-bit protected mode M-set generation routine? You write integer code, I'll write FPU code. :) I think the bigger issue is whether it is *worth* porting all that integer assembly code to a 32-bit environment. Me, I don't think it's worth it. Yes, there are some folks who have images based on artifacts in the integer code. I'm not convinced it's worth preserving the artifacting, especially if it hinders the growth of FractInt in other areas. If I had to choose between having synchronous orbits working fast, or integer math support in a 32-bit environment, guess which one I'm gonna choose? (Good thing I don't decide stuff, huh? :) In an ideal world, FractInt would keep support for the oldest PAR files known to man. :) But that isn't always possible. And there's enough work porting FractInt to a 32-bit environment just with FPU support, without needing to move all the optimized integer assembly as well. IMO. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Conformal formulas Date: 10 Oct 1997 23:39:03 -0400 (EDT) After some experimentation I determined that conformal mappings aren't enough. In fact to get the sort of equant form of typical Mandelbrots and Julias (esp. the spirals) requires the functions f(x,y) and g(x,y) that determine the next x and the next y respectively, have a certain structure. Specifically the partial derivativwe matrix _ _ |f_x f_y| |g_x g_y| ~ ~ may need to have the form _ _ |a -b| |b a| ~ ~ (I took apart f(x,y)=x^2-y^2 and g(x,y)=2xy and noted that the resulting matrix had that form. That is just complex z^2 interpreted as being from R^2 to R^2 instead of C to C.) This will always generate orthogonal families too. I tried coming up with pairs of functions f, g with this pattern; most tended to come out as some complex function or other. But I came up with this: Conform8J { c=p1, z=pixel: a=sinh(real(z))*cos(imag(z)) b=cosh(real(z))*sin(imag(z)) z=a+b*(0,1)+c, |z|<=1000 } Conform8M { c=pixel, z=(0,1)*3.141592654/2: a=sinh(real(z))*cos(imag(z)) b=cosh(real(z))*sin(imag(z)) z=a+b*(0,1)+c, |z|<=1000 } It generates some interesting Julias and Mandelbrots in R^2. Much weirder is: Conform7J { c=p1, z=pixel: a=exp(real(z))*sin(imag(z)) b=-exp(real(z))*cos(imag(z)) z=a+b*(0,1)+c, real(z)<=1000000 } Conform7M { c=pixel, z=0: a=exp(real(z))*sin(imag(z)) b=-exp(real(z))*cos(imag(z)) z=a+b*(0,1)+c, real(z)<=1000000 } This behaves strangely and is very slow. Both require float=y, should use periodicity=no for the latter as well. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Evin C Robertson Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 11 Oct 1997 02:08:35 -0400 (EDT) **Warning**: Again, perhaps too technical for the casual Fractint user > Unfortunately Intel hasn't (to my knowledge) published basic cycle counts > for Pentium Pro and Pentium-II instructions. The last published counts I > have are for Pentiums. However, the trend from 386 through Pentium is for > FPU speed to increase drastically, and integer multiplies to increase only > moderately. (13-18 cycles on a 486, 10-11 for Pentium, for integer; 16 > cycles on a 486, 1 on a Pentium, for FPU.) I'd be very surprised if the > PPro and P-II had radically redesigned integer multiplies, given that > overall their performance is not leaps and bounds above Pentiums of the > same clock speed. Go to www.x86.org/intel.doc for links to lots of intel documentation. Great site. PPro, P-II and K6 are very different from their predecessors as they rewrite the assembly into RISC code (microinstructions), which they execute very quickly. > Actually, the problem FractInt has is that multiply instructions (IMUL and > MUL) are *not* pairable instructions on the Pentium, and so not only do > they consume 10-11 cycles each, but they *also* prevent other instructions > from running at the same time. On the PPro and P-II, the assignment of On the PPro, P-II, and K6, I believe an integer multiply takes 1-2 cycles when scheduled properly. > Various indications I have received are that AMD's K6 processor does not > *quite* have the FPU performance of their Intel counterparts, but they are > still much faster with FPU stuff than Cyrix processors. The K6 doesn't have a floating point pipeline, so if you have mulitple floating point instructions they can't all be running at the same time. I've heard that the K6 actually does single floating point instructions faster than the P-II. >Would you like to see who can write the fastest 32-bit >protected mode M-set generation routine? You write integer code, I'll >write FPU code. :) You're on. I'll be optimizing for my K6. I may well put some floating point stuff in there with my integers as the K6 does floating point and integer math simultaneously quite well. I guess I'll probably need to reoptimize for the P-II and P-pro to widen my target of computers a bit... If somebody would like to donate a fast P-II to me which I could optimize on... Quoting myself from above: < I may well put some floating point stuff in there with my integers... Perhaps this would be a good solution for fractint. Unfortunately, this doesn't work to well on some machines... >if it hinders the growth of FractInt in other areas. If I had to choose >between having synchronous orbits working fast, or integer math support in >a 32-bit environment, guess which one I'm gonna choose? (Good thing I >don't decide stuff, huh? :) I go for whatever goes fast. If integer math can go faster, let it go faster. I just have to ask: What's all this talk about synchronous orbits with fractals? Did an altavista search and came up with nothing related to the topic. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) And now the PAR you've all been WAITING FOR! Date: 11 Oct 1997 03:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Sorry this is late. First the FRM then the PAR... ; Precogna.frm, formulas PrecognaJ, PrecognaM ; Copyright (C) 1997 PGD. ; Distribute it as you see fit, as long as these comments remain attached and ; the two formulas unaltered. Formulas you derive from these by changing ; anything, and images and par files generated with this, are yours to do ; with as you please. PrecognaJ { ; p1 is Julia parameter. z=pixel,p=0,c=p1: t=sqr(p)*p+sqr(z)+c p=z z=t, lastsqr<=2048 } PrecognaM (XAXIS) { ; p1 is Julia parameter. z=0,p=0,c=pixel: t=sqr(p)*p+sqr(z)+c p=z z=t, lastsqr<=2048 } ; Precogna.par, image parameters for beautiful images generated with the ; Precogna formulas. These formulas are found in precogna.frm ; which must be in your /frm directory. You should be able to obtain ; precogna.frm from where you obtained this file. ; If you obtained this file from usenet sci.fractals, the .frm was probably ; embedded in the same posting with this .par file. ; ; Copyright (C) 1997 PGD. ; Distribute it as you see fit, as long as these comments remain attached ; and the original entries unaltered. Images and PAR files you derive from ; these by changing anything, zooming in or out, or changing the formula, ; are yours to do with as you please. Black_Carrot { reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=5.78e-006/-7.005e-006/0.6666636 params=-0.4/0 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 colors=000000<28>w00z00z00<61>zy0zz0zz0zz0<157>zzz } Carrot_Detail { reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=0.500791/0.313147/2.380941 params=-0.4/0 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 colors=000000<28>w00z00z00<61>zy0zz0zz0zz0<157>zzz } Tractor_Beam { ; An alien starship towing a runabout in a tractor beam. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=-0.751174/1.11022e-016/3.205128 params=-0.4/0.03 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=5 colors=000<15>000000001112<43>TbxUczWdz<12>wxzzzzzzz<174>000 } Plasma_Reactor { ; Plasma storage tanks and reactor nexi. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=0.346992/7.77156e-016/2.541735 params=-0.44/0 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=5 colors=000000<45>xTbzUczWc<4>zjfzmgzni<5>zxwzzzzzz<30>d2zc0zc0z<29>LTzKU\ zKUzKUz<124>zzz } Pod_Detail { ; Detail of a plasma storage pod reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=+0.34994753302034220/-0.06833724926931038/110.5102 params=-0.44/0 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=5 colors=000000<45>bTxcUzcWz<4>fjzgmzinz<5>wxzzzzzzz<30>z2dz0cz0c<29>zTLzU\ KzUKzUK<124>zzz } Pod_Detail_2 { ; Detail of a plasma storage pod fuel siphon clamp reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=+0.34904122331142200/-0.07381572826722271/394.6794 params=-0.44/0 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 logmap=5 colors=000000<45>TbxUczWcz<4>jfzmgzniz<5>xwzzzzzzz<30>2zd0zc0zc<29>TzLUz\ KUzKUzK<124>zzz } Mandibles { ; A Precogna Mandelbrot image. Looks like bug jaws. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.424664/0/21.5839 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 colors=000A0A<44>x0Ez0Fz0F<110>zzzzzzyyy<93>00A } Whirlpools { ; Whirlpools around a promontory. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.45579244166987560/+0.03772238872010915/88.4586 float=y maxiter=500 inside=0 logmap=21 colors=00015A<125>hlzhlzilzimzjmz<26>yyzzzzzzyzzx<12>zzezzczzc<78>A0A } Tongue { ; The bug's tongue reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.424664/1.30104e-017/68.30348 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=28 colors=000zzz<44>z2zz0zy0z<29>20z00z00y<29>00C00A00A<28>901901A00B00<29>\ x00z00z10<45>zx0zz0zz1<30>zzz } Tongue_Tip { ; The bug's tongue's tip reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.43731076613586700/+0.00000000000000002/216.1503 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=28 colors=000zzz<44>2zz0zz0yz<29>02z00z00y<29>00C00A00A<28>0910910A00B0<29>\ 0x00z01z0<45>xz0zz0zz1<30>zzz } Mandelbud { ; A minibrot tastebud. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=b center-mag=-0.43873947536942330/-0.00135218707365365/4323.005 float=y maxiter=4096 logmap=66 colors=000000K0A<76>z00<16>zzV<14>zzz<30>2z20z00y0<29>0C00A00A0<31>00A00\ A10A10A20A20A<41>K0A } Intersection { ; Strands intersect in a superstring reactor. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.43379926315796940/+0.00000000000000002/1541.604 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=65 colors=000ezz<76>B1VA0UA0UA0U<46>U0AV0AW1B<42>xJTyJTzKUzLV<29>zxxzzzzzz<\ 46>ezz } Tantalon_Beam { ; Detail of the reactor core. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognam center-mag=-0.43379384907332540/+0.00000000000000002/11335.32 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=106 colors=000zez<76>1BV0AU0AU0AU<46>0UA0VA1WB<42>JxTJyTKzULzV<29>xzxzzzzzz<\ 46>zez } Precogna_Mandelbrt { ; The M-set of the Precogna formula. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognam center-mag=-9.99201e-016/7.77156e-016/1.449275 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000ezz<76>B1VA0UA0UA0U<46>U0AV0AW1B<42>xJTyJTzKUzLV<29>zxxzzzzzz<\ 46>ezz } Gullet { ; In the mandibles' grip. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.40822902177024260/+0.00000000000000000/431.678 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=75 colors=000zmz<60>B1zA0zA0yA0x<44>A02A00B10<45>xk0zm0zm0<94>zzz } Symbiont { ; A symbiotic crustacean lives in the mandibles. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.40969846075901170/+0.00000000000000000/3174.103 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=75 colors=000zmz<60>z1Bz0Ay0Ax0A<44>20A00A01B<45>0kx0mz0mz<94>zzz } Symbiont_Left { ; Left of the symbiont. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41006067746974330/+0.00000000000000000/3174.103 float=y maxiter=5000 inside=0 logmap=75 colors=000zmz<60>z1Bz0Ay0Ax0A<44>20A00A01B<45>0kx0mz0mz<94>zzz } Spiral_Hook { ; On the bug's tongue. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41006593651454530/+0.00005261789606087/36908.17 float=y maxiter=32767 inside=0 logmap=131 colors=000cmz<60>B1zA0zA0zA0y<44>A0LA0KA0KA0K<29>K0AK0AL1B<60>yyyzzzzzzz\ zz<45>zzz } Unicorn_Horn { ; Neat spirals and stuff. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41004671470579420/+0.00006766398343948/271383.6 float=y maxiter=32767 inside=0 logmap=138 colors=000mzm<140>B1LA0KB1L<29>xxxzzzzzz<78>A05 } Convergence { ; Many converging lines reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41054918859461490/+0.01354137030978280/431.678 float=y maxiter=2000 inside=0 logmap=112 colors=000zzz<108>dLBcKAcKAbKAbKA<76>00A00A00A00A109<25>901901A00B10<30>\ zz0 } Two_Strands { ; Two strands of mandelmatter from Convergence. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41088754625650250/+0.01426680086209259/1541.707 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=127 colors=000zzz<92>znzzmzzmzzlyzkx<27>zLdzKczKcyKb<45>K00K00L10<77>zz0 } One_Strand { ; One of the Two_Strands. IMO the more interesting one. :) reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41035970830395770/+0.01463241786045672/5506.097 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=133 colors=00000A<97>0BV0BV0BV0CW0CW0CW<53>0Tl0Um1Um2Vm<28>alycmzcmz<62>zz0 } Mandible_Edge { ; A serration on the mandible. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41000324267340650/-0.00103920344720220/9321.416 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=84 colors=000czz<77>K0UK0UK1U<93>zzzzzzzyy<77>z00 } Verteron_Emitter { ; A strange alien device. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41004129707625650/-0.00106025627565845/54194.28 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=89 colors=000zcU<77>U0KU0KU1K<93>nnznnzmmz<77>00z } GoldenFluff { ; reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.41003944897537460/-0.00107111953514188/444215.4 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=107 colors=000zzm<93>K00K00L10<76>yy0zz0zz0zz1<77>zzm } MandelApocalypse { ; Mandelbrot Set after the Apocalypse? reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.0250391/0.507307/3.436426 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<2>000100100200200<87>c00c00c10c20<75>yy0zz0zz0zz1<77>zzm } Bud-oid { ; Mangled bud. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.171981/0.441695/14.08371 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000U00<142>00A01A11B<108>mzz } Spiroid { ; Spiral fusion reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.20368671048513370/+0.39277803757828890/72.59646 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000mzm<108>11B00A00A00A<31>A0AB1BB1BC2CC2C<105>zmz } Twisted_Matter { ; Twisted Mandelmatter. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=t center-mag=-0.15721668519561880/+0.38557609741127420/17827.49 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=107 colors=000mmz<174>448448448447447447<26>000000100<44>K00 } Twisted_Matter_2 { ; A zoom of the twisted matter. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=t center-mag=-0.15724514084310800/+0.38552973237442150/849575.2 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=112 colors=000KK0<13>hsfjvjjvj<157>448448448448447<28>000000100<44>K00 } Burning_Brot { ; Bright purple plasma fire burns a Mandelbrot bud. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.206057/0.491205/67.71016 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=19 colors=000zzU<108>881770770770<29>00A00A10A<109>zmz } Complexity { ; A complex region where chaos collides with chaos. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=2 center-mag=-0.20975520050078320/+0.48269548719833070/159.6938 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=22 colors=00000A<141>z00z00z11<109>zzz } BrambleSpiral { ; A spiral of thorny protrusions. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.20243811866441390/+0.48865679211317000/3193.876 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=74 colors=00000A<76>b01c00c00c10<60>yy9zzAzzAzzA<109>zzz } Fracture_Zone { ; A fault line in Mandelbrot Land. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=t center-mag=-0.20952000858461420/+0.47848596925408020/654.4827 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=32 colors=00000A<141>z00z00z11<109>zzz } Membranes { ; Complexity: a thin membrane between Brown and Purple. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=t center-mag=-0.20855080883051680/+0.47805215359115470/2845.577 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=94 colors=000z0z<126>AKUAKUAKUAKUBKT<55>UKAUKATJA<21>B11A00B11<29>kxxmzznzz\ <8>zzz } Membrane_Segment { ; Part of the Membrane. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM passes=t center-mag=-0.20869013129516830/+0.47775869005446980/33088.1 float=y maxiter=32767 inside=0 logmap=106 colors=000z0z<127>AKUAKUBLU<123>zzz } Frost_Fronds { ; A beautiful, complex, and slow image. reset=1930 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaM center-mag=-0.20866679844871980/+0.47777408515160420/661762.1 float=y maxiter=1048576 inside=0 logmap=1599 colors=000z0z<127>KAUKAULBU<123>zzz } Twistron { ; A very peculiar Julia set. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.427/0.018 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<11>733844944A55A55<88>0Uz0Uz0Uy<147>000 } Energon { ; Another very peculiar Julia set. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ passes=t center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.427/0.008 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<11>33744844955A55A<88>Uz0Uz0Uy0<147>000 } Terduron { ; Another very peculiar Julia set. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ passes=t center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.427/0.002 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<11>733844944A55A55<88>0zU0zU0yU<147>000 } Generon { ; Another very peculiar Julia set. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ passes=t center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.427/0.0005999999999999999 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<11>33744844955A55A<88>zU0zU0yU0<147>000 } Vivid_Explosion { ; Very vivid. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=PrecognaJ passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.66134e-016/1.103753 params=-0.45414/0.03511 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<14>40950A50A60A<92>yJ1zK0zK0zL0<28>zb0zc0zc0zc1<108>zzz } Twistor-Drive { ; This looks very weird. Periodicity checking screws it up reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.4079/0.0026 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<12>830840940A50A50<91>1xJ1xJ1yJ0zK0zK0zL<28>0zb0zc0zc1zc<60>y\ zyzzzyyy<45>00A } Pinched_Carrot { ; Strange. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.40518/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000yzz<11>rwzrvzqvzpuzpuz<91>y2gy2gy1gz0fz0fz0e<28>z0Oz0Nz0Ny0N<6\ 0>101000111<45>zzp } Glowing_Asteroids { ; Aftermath of a space collision. From a minibrot. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.45255/0.00338 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<12>30840840950A50A<91>xJ1xJ1yJ1zK0zK0zL0<28>zb0zc0zc0zc1<57>z\ xvzxwzyxyzyzzz<46>A00 } Deimos { ; Amid the asteroids. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=0/0/20.83333 params=-0.45255/0.00338 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<12>30840840950A50A<91>xJ1xJ1yJ1zK0zK0zL0<28>zb0zc0zc0zc1<57>z\ xvzxwzyxyzyzzz<46>A00 } Phobos { ; Amid the asteroids, slight param tweak. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-9.57567e-016/6.10623e-016/10.41667 params=-0.446477/0.002736 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=28 colors=000<12>30840840950A50A<94>z0Kz1Kz2J<28>za1zc0zc0<58>zxvzxwzyxyzyz\ zz<46>A00 } Spiral_Night { ; A hole in the space time continuum. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.40746/0.00143 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=0 logmap=20 periodicity=0 colors=000005<11>30840940950A50A<78>z0Kz1Kz2J<28>za1zc0zc1<45>zyxzzzzyy<\ 45>IAAH88H88<29>000 } Spiral_Spiral_S { ; Very interesting and unusual. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.411579/0.013829 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<10>702703803804904<96>K0zK1zJ2z<28>1az0cz0cz<61>yyzzzzyyy<45>\ 00A } Intricacy { ; Very complex patterns of spirals! ; Very slow... reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.4115331/0.0138375 float=y maxiter=32767 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000<10>702703803804904<96>K0zK1zJ2z<28>1az0cz0cz<61>yyzzzzyyy<45>\ 00A } Triplicacy { ; Three-fold forms reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.139238/0.40686 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<8>026026027037038048<97>0zK1zK2zJ<28>az1cz0cz0<61>yzyzzzyyy<4\ 5>0A0 } Alien_Starship { ; Very odd. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.438768/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<16>A00B10B10C20C31<88>xxJyyJzzKzzL<29>zzxzzzyyz<45>C2LA0KA0K<\ 61>A00 } Starship_Mark_II { ; A revised model. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.436084/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<16>00A01B01B02C13C<88>JxxJyyKzzLzz<29>xzzzzzzyy<45>L2CK0AK0A<\ 61>00A } Mark_II_Reactor { ; The Mark II craft has a powerful reactor core. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-9.57567e-016/6.10623e-016/7.659316 params=-0.436084/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<16>00A01B01B02C13C<88>JxxJyyKzzLzz<29>xzzzzzzyy<45>L2CK0AK0A<\ 61>00A } Fluxion_Chamber { ; In the Mark II's reactor core. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-9.81853e-016/6.17562e-016/44.53091 params=-0.436084/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=92 colors=000<16>00A10B10B20C31C<88>xJxyJyzKzzLz<29>zxzzzzzyy<45>LC2KA0KA0<\ 61>0A0 } Starship_Mark_III { ; Another revised model. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/5.55112e-016/1.041667 params=-0.433787/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<16>0A01B01B02C03C1<87>wwJxxJyyJzzKzzL<29>zzxzzzzyy<43>N5EM3DL\ 2CK0AK0A<61>00A } Mark_III_Reactor { ; Different... reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-9.71445e-016/6.10623e-016/10.41667 params=-0.433787/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000<16>0A01B01B02C03C1<87>wwJxxJyyJzzKzzL<29>zzxzzzzyy<43>N5EM3DL\ 2CK0AK0A<61>00A } Luminon_Chamber { ; The center of the Mark III reactor uses fractal geometry reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-0.00000000000000098/+0.00000000000000062/60.56203 params=-0.433787/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=103 colors=000<16>A00B01B01C02C13<87>wJwxJxyJyzKzzLz<29>zxzzzzyyz<43>5EN3DM2\ CL0AK0AK<61>0A0 } Crystal_Lumps { ; A blue corona surrounds crystals that formed in the core reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-1.00614e-015/6.38378e-016/32.96415 params=-0.4339/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=69 colors=000<15>A00A00B11B22<75>yyyzzzyyy<29>22C00A00B<37>JJlKKmKMn<6>Kcz<\ 78>zzz } Crystal_Resonance { ; One crystal in emerald green, looks like a Tholian ship. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-0.01954057947918072/+0.00000000000000064/135.099 params=-0.4339/0 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=0 logmap=105 colors=000<15>A0AA0AB1BB2B<75>yyyzzzyyy<29>2C20A00B0<37>JlJKmKKnM<5>Kx`K\ zcKzc<77>zzz } Golden_Spiral { ; A beautiful delicate spiral of gold wrapped in mystery. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=+0.01123836285323686/-0.00283608552263435/659.283 params=-0.43382/0 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=299 periodicity=0 colors=0000A0<110>000001012<44>9TxAUzATw<14>A0A<46>xx1zz0zz2<29>zzz } Deep_Core { ; Deep in the core of the Darkness is the Light reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.136275/0.397373 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes colors=000A00<44>18909A09A09B09B<91>8Sw9Tx9Su<17>124000110<57>vv0xx1ww1<\ 30>A00 } Complex_Stuff { ; reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.411435/0.013704 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000A00<44>18909A09A09B09B<91>8Sw9Tx9Su<17>124000110<57>vv0xx1ww1<\ 30>A00 } Warm_Cool_Spirals { ; Very odd reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.410899/0.014262 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000zzz<29>z33z00z00<108>L09L09K0AJ0A<13>201000000<59>0av0bw1cx2cx\ <30>zzz } Swirl_Tunnels { ; Strange reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-8.88178e-016/6.10623e-016/1.041667 params=-0.157247/0.385551 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=yes periodicity=0 colors=000zzz<29>33z00z00z<108>90L90LA0KA0J<13>102000000<59>v0aw0bx1cx2c\ <30>zzz } Hypertronic_Pulse { ; This formula produces a lot of funky alien power cores.. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=t center-mag=-9.57567e-016/6.10623e-016/16.27604 params=-0.157247/0.385551 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=104 periodicity=0 colors=000<14>90IA0KA0K<140>TlyTlyUmzVmz<15>xynzzmzkp<2>z0z<72>A00 } Galaxies { ; Galaxies in the night reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.210613/0.391426 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 periodicity=0 colors=000<14>90IA0KA0K<140>TlyTlyUmzVmz<15>xynzzmzkp<2>z0z<72>A00 } Tango { ; Spiraling things do an intimate tango. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-6.66134e-016/4.44089e-016/0.9861933 params=-0.192851/0.394992 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 periodicity=0 colors=000<14>90IA0KA0K<140>TlyTlyUmzVmz<15>xynzzmzkp<2>z0z<72>A00 } Chitoid { ; This complex chitinous creature inhabits Alpha Centauri. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-8.88178e-016/0.0677411/1.152095 params=-0.189172/0.390449 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 periodicity=0 colors=000<14>90IA0KA0K<140>TlyTlyUmzVmz<15>xynzzmzkp<2>z0z<72>A00 } Chitoid_Zoom { ; This complex chitinous creature inhabits Alpha Centauri. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-1.05471e-015/0.0278755/4.114625 params=-0.189172/0.390449 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 periodicity=0 colors=000<14>90IA0KA0K<140>TlyTlyUmzVmz<15>xynzzmzkp<2>z0z<72>A00 } Green_Goo { ; Strange stuff reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=-8.88178e-016/0.0677411/1.152095 params=-0.157234/0.385567 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000zyy<11>zrjzrizqhzpfzpfzpf<139>EY1EY1DX0DW0<15>12C00D00D<75>000 } Purple_Haze { ; Strange stuff reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=7.77156e-016/0.0083288/0.8895923 params=0.209132/0.011115 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<11>rjzrizqhzpfzpfzpfz<139>Y1EY1EX0DW0D<15>2C10D00D0<75>000 } Fuzzy_Blue { ; Strange stuff reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj passes=2 center-mag=7.77156e-016/0.0083288/0.8895923 params=0.209735/0.010512 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<13>hhzffzffz<139>Z2FZ2FY1EX1E<29>21B00A00A<62>000 } Frondy_Feathers { ; Attractive fluffy spirally stuff reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=7.77156e-016/0.0083288/0.8895923 params=0.210294/0.009349 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<13>hhzffzffz<139>Z2FZ2FY1EX1E<29>21B00A00A<62>000 } Blue_Green_Algae { ; Interesting critters in pond water. reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=7.77156e-016/0.0083288/0.8895923 params=-0.203006/0.488152 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<11>jykiyihyhfzffzf<140>2FZ1EY1EY1EX1DW<27>11B00A00A00A<61>\ 000 } Pastel_Spirals { ; reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-1.11022e-015/6.66134e-016/1.131455 params=-0.202296/0.488633 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<11>yykyyiyyhzzfzzf<123>L7`L7`K6_K6Z<13>F2ZE1YE1YE1XD1W<12>\ 71M71M82N<77>zzz } Pastel_Double { ; Double spiral reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=precogna.frm formulaname=precognaj center-mag=-1.16573e-015/-0.00369026/17.67899/1/97.5 params=-0.202296/0.488633 float=y maxiter=4096 inside=0 logmap=3 colors=000yyz<11>yykyyiyyhzzfzzf<123>L7`L7`K6_K6Z<13>F2ZE1YE1YE1XD1W<12>\ 71M71M82N<77>zzz } -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 11 Oct 1997 09:08:47 -0500 Hey Sylvie, I tried to run "rand_generic" and got an "undefined function" error indicating that "3D" was unefined. What did I do wrong? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke On Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:00:54 -0400 Sylvie Gallet writes: >>> frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** >>> ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com >>> ; 19 Juillet 1997 >>> z =3D rand: >>> z =3D fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); >>> |z| <=3D real(p1) >>> } > The following formula works with float=3Dyes: > >frm:rand_generic { ; **** PARAMETER 1 MUST BE > 0 **** > ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112ompuserve.com > ; 19 Juillet 1997 > z =3D srand(z): > z =3D fn1(z) + fn2(pixel); > |z| <=3D real(p1) > } > > Cheers, > > - Sylvie Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: (fractint) Long awaited New Nuke Fractal (absolutely Free!) Date: 11 Oct 1997 09:08:15 -0500 Here is another (:|) Free M.L. Newsted Jr. Fractal! Any comments? SnakeHead (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = 0 c = pixel: z = sqrt(z) / sqrt(c) + c |z| < 4 } I like to ask another set of simple questions: Am I right in assuming the following about the operation of "snakehead": z= 0 sets the value of z to (0,0) or (0 + 0i) then c = equals pixel sets the value of c to the x,y coordinate of the upper left corner of my screen where x and y form the values for the real and imaginary parts of c (516,359) for a setting of 1024X768. Then, It takes the square root of z (which would be 0) divides by the square root of c (which gives it zero) and then adds c to it which then makes z = (516, 359) Now, then does fractint start over at the top with z=(516,359) and c=(515,359) or am I totally off base? And if that is right, why do I not get a "divide by zero" error? Or is that allowed in Fractint? I've read the first half of the frm.tut that came with fractint and I think I'm on the right track, but any help would be appreciated. I know it's not very chaotic (deep zooming is uneventful) but I though it had a rather interesting shape. Happy Fractaling, "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: A M Kelley Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 11 Oct 1997 10:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Nuke...go through that frm you got from Sylvie and take out all the 3D's, which are artifacts of the Juno mail reader and aren't supposed to be there. Leave the equal signs. --Alice Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) And now the PAR you've all been WAITING FOR! Date: 11 Oct 1997 10:07:54 -0500 Hey Paul! I tried your frm and par files. Really cool! Some were really slow too. PrecognaM (XAXIS) { ; p1 is Julia parameter. z=0,p=0,c=pixel: t=sqr(p)*p+sqr(z)+c p=z z=t, lastsqr<=2048 } I have a similar .frm FatHeart (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = pixel / (pixel-1) c = pixel: z = z*z + c |z| < 4 } Which seems to have a more detailed result. And could you explain lastsqr<=2048? Is that some sort of bailout? AAANNNDD, where did you get the gold/purpley .map? Did you write it? Or did you just keep cycling the colors with until you found something you liked and saved it as a .map? I have thought about trying to write a custom .map but it seem so tedious! "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 11 Oct 1997 12:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Clearly we can sit here for a long, long time arguing about what compination if int and FPU instructions is fastest on what chip. But unless someone is prepared to reoptimize fractint for every new processor released, it hardly matters. The question is: is there ever a situation where int math is MUCH faster? if not, the portability and generic-ness of floating-point math gives it an awfully big overall advantage: we can take the code, stick it into optimizing compiler X on system Y, compile, and have a reasonable approximation of the fastest we can get it on the system. And if someone wants to rewrite that for a specific machine, they're welcome to, but no one HAS to in order to be able to run fractint on that machine. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) And now the PAR you've all been WAITING FOR! Date: 11 Oct 1997 18:04:51 -0400 (EDT) > >Hey Paul! >I tried your frm and par files. Really cool! Some were really slow too. Heh. the best ones usually are. :-) >I have a similar .frm > >FatHeart (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. > z = pixel / (pixel-1) > c = pixel: > > z = z*z + c > |z| < 4 > } >Which seems to have a more detailed result. Funky... >And could you explain lastsqr<=2048? Is that some sort of bailout? yup. >AAANNNDD, where did you get the gold/purpley .map? >Did you write it? Or did you just keep cycling the colors with >until you found something you liked and saved it as a .map? I wrote it... :) >I have thought about trying to write a custom .map but it seem so >tedious! hmm. You'll get the hang of it... > -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robin Y. Millette" Subject: (fractint) Subject is irrelevant - you will be assimilated! Date: 12 Oct 1997 09:21:30 -0400 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD6F1.BA09D440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Talk about new ways to make friends :) When I first suscribed to this mailing list, I never expected so much = mail! I was wondering: is there was a specific mailing list for = developpers? Three little questions... I'm using Fractint 19.6 in a dos box (4dos, actually :) thru Windows = 95... When I open a dos box, I find out I have 617k of conventionnal = memory left (not bad I think...). So here is my terrible question: why = can't I shell to Dos from Fractint? Wherever I am, (menu or image...), I = hit 'D' but I end up calculating the current image... Secondly: fractint makedoc[=3Dfilename]... I've tested with = filename=3Dcon, and as expected, the doc scroll quickly on my display... = Shouldn't a 'more' pipe give me screen by screen? Actually, I am using = List 9.1m (Vernon Buerg) with the '/s' option, which should do exactly = the same thing... Lastly: what's the deal with "True Color" modes??? I've got a normal = SVGA card... (Cirrus 5434 if you insist, with 1 little meg...) Any clarifications would be greatly appreciated! (btw, I know I can just = as well (even preferably) open a new Dos box instead of shelling from = Fractint... but why isn't it working? My 0.02$ about ints/floats/32bit... although it pretty much has been = said allready: while there is no significant advantage to support ints = any longer, it might become important again in the future... so simply = backup that code for now. 32 bit? Is that really a question? That it for now... CIAO! ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Robin Y. Millette ICQ uin: 1266281 Waglo Institution http://www.generation.net/~millette Answer the Bovine Call! 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AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMMBu3CoM17wBQAAIMMBu3CoM17wBCwABgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMA BoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUA AAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAwgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAM4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAESACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA CrI= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD6F1.BA09D440-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Subject is irrelevant - you will be assimilated! Date: 12 Oct 1997 23:17:13 -0400 (EDT) >Talk about new ways to make friends :) > >When I first suscribed to this mailing list, I never expected so much = >mail! I was wondering: is there was a specific mailing list for = >developpers? Dunno. Why do you end every line with "="? >Three little questions... > I'm using Fractint 19.6 in a dos box (4dos, actually :) thru Windows = >95... When I open a dos box, I find out I have 617k of conventionnal = >memory left (not bad I think...). So here is my terrible question: why = >can't I shell to Dos from Fractint? Wherever I am, (menu or image...), I = >hit 'D' but I end up calculating the current image... It does this to me too in Win 95 on my 486dx2 50 with 8 megs ram. It doesn't on my *new P166 with 32 megs RAM ;) ;) ;)*... so it has something to do with ram/speed. [Smallish binary snipped] I think it's poor netiquette(?) to post binaries here... PAR files and formulas are welcome though. -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Subject is irrelevant - you will be assimilated! Date: 12 Oct 1997 23:00:37 -0500 --------------27BC8E52AEB4842B4E4212CB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think it's poor netiquette(?) to post binaries here... PAR files and > formulas are welcome though. Probably, especially when some users (yours truly, to be exact) can't even open the darn thing... Netscape can't find a plugin that supports this file. What do I do, and is it even worth opening? Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu --------------27BC8E52AEB4842B4E4212CB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I think it's poor netiquette(?) to post binaries here... PAR files and
formulas are welcome though.
Probably, especially when some users (yours truly, to be exact) can't even open the darn thing... Netscape can't find a plugin that supports this file. What do I do, and is it even worth opening?

Justin K.

"I only use Windows because:
1.  Solaris isn't available for a PC :(
2.  I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^(
3.  When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)"
-Me

 Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu --------------27BC8E52AEB4842B4E4212CB-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 12 Oct 1997 23:36:32 -0500 --------------65D4AAA3C6E030479BD0A853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Integer v. Float thread, the suggestion was made to compile Fractint in the future using DJGPP. This would produce a 32-bit DOS application AND have the advantage of being easily portable to other systems, assuming I remember the discussion correctly. My response is: Sure, go ahead with it for now. But for a future release (Fractint 50 or thereabouts ;) ) why not rewrite the whole program in Java? This would make the program universally useable (even on Macintosh(probably)). Now before everyone goes complaining about how Java only works in a browser, Let me set the record straight about Java: Java CAN be used to create normal stand-alone applications. Doing this is explained in the docs you get when you download the Java Development Kit from Sun (YES, JAVA IS FREE! 8) You only have to pay if you want a development environment.) Look through the tutorial thaat is available, they explain it to you. Java even has arbitrary precision types built in (again, look through the docs -- this time under the predefined classes descriptions) which is seriously kewl. There may only be a few problems with Java applications: 1. Speed. Java is probably SLOW due to it still being an interpreted language. Then again, there is the JIT (Just-in-Time) compiler, but I don't know if it has any relevancy to applications. 2. I don't know if plotting points to the screen works the same way in an applet as in an application. I can't really find out either, because all the Java Mandelbrot programs I've seen are applets, not applications. If not, you could always use a native class (a reference to some C++ code or any other programming language code) to do it. Anyway, I should probably quit now, as it's getting late, and I have class at 8:00 tomorrow. I'm sure you guys will be able to figure it all out by the 50th release ;). Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu --------------65D4AAA3C6E030479BD0A853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Integer v. Float thread, the suggestion was made to compile Fractint in the future using DJGPP.  This would produce a 32-bit DOS application AND have the advantage of being easily portable to other systems, assuming I remember the discussion correctly.

My response is:  Sure, go ahead with it for now.  But for a future release (Fractint 50 or thereabouts ;) )  why not rewrite the whole program in Java?  This would make the program universally useable (even on Macintosh(probably)).

Now before everyone goes complaining about how Java only works in a browser, Let me set the record straight about Java:  Java CAN be used to create normal stand-alone applications.  Doing this is explained in the docs you get when you download the Java Development Kit from Sun (YES, JAVA IS FREE! 8) You only have to pay if you want a development environment.)  Look through the tutorial thaat is available, they explain it to you.

Java even has arbitrary precision types built in (again, look through the docs -- this time under the predefined classes descriptions) which is seriously kewl.

There may only be a few problems with Java applications:
1. Speed.  Java is probably SLOW due to it still being an interpreted language.  Then again, there is the JIT (Just-in-Time) compiler, but I don't know if it has any relevancy to applications.

2.  I don't know if plotting points to the screen works the same way in an applet as in an application.  I can't really find out either, because all the Java Mandelbrot programs I've seen are applets, not applications.  If not, you could always use a native class (a reference to some C++ code or any other programming language code) to do it.

Anyway, I should probably quit now, as it's getting late, and I have class at 8:00 tomorrow.  I'm sure you guys will be able to figure it all out by the 50th release ;).

Justin K.

"I only use Windows because:
1.  Solaris isn't available for a PC :(
2.  I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^(
3.  When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)"
-Me

 Justin Kolodziej is  4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu
  --------------65D4AAA3C6E030479BD0A853-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 00:50:35 -0400 (EDT) >My response is: Sure, go ahead with it for now. But for a future >release (Fractint 50 or thereabouts ;) ) why not rewrite the whole >program in Java? This would make the program universally useable (even >on Macintosh(probably)). Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Do a web search and there are ten trillion fractal applets. And they are all slow, balky, GPF'y, buggy, and tend to have few features. >Now before everyone goes complaining about how Java only works in a >browser, Let me set the record straight about Java: Java CAN be used to >create normal stand-alone applications. Doing this is explained in the >docs you get when you download the Java Development Kit from Sun (YES, >JAVA IS FREE! 8) You only have to pay if you want a development >environment.) Look through the tutorial thaat is available, they >explain it to you. Development kit...? free? got a URL? Maybe there is a way to make applets that *work*, then I can make some for my web site. :-) >Java even has arbitrary precision types built in (again, look through >the docs -- this time under the predefined classes descriptions) which >is seriously kewl. Special pentium optimized assembly routines for special cases, like complex square, cube, log, cosine? Also, what is Java exactly? Sounds like a C++-type OOP language... how does it work precisely? you hear hype about it but very little real info. BTW I got two copies of this fused together into one message...anyone else get this? -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Kevin Nambo" Subject: Re: (fractint) Subject is irrelevant - you will be assimilated! Date: 13 Oct 1997 07:31:54 -0400 ** <<<> Probably, especially when some users (yours truly, to be exact) can't even open the darn thing... Netscape can't find a plugin that supports this file. What do I do, and is it even worth opening? >> ** I don't know if this has to do with my mail/newsreader (Outlook Express) but I didn't get any file attached to the original message... So I looked under properties and found the original source of the message, and sure enough there was a bunch of gibberish application/ms-tnef. I went and looked it up with AltaVista, and got this: (from http://www.washington.edu/pine/pine-info/97.01/msg00349.html) This MS-TNEF attachment is created by Microsoft Exchange, the e-mail program which comes with Windows 95. It contains formatting information only and no content so you can safely ignore this attachment in mail you receive. So I know why OE didn't pick it up... I hope my messages don't do that ! >>BKNambo -- (badger@innocent.com) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Kevin Nambo" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 07:49:17 -0400 -----Original Message----- >>My response is: Sure, go ahead with it for now. But for a future >>release (Fractint 50 or thereabouts ;) ) why not rewrite the whole >>program in Java? This would make the program universally useable (even >>on Macintosh(probably)). I don't think I would recommend the Java version of Fractint, especially since uh,.. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, Java didn't enjoy the writing of files... and with our dependence on PAR's and FRM's, this could be a problem. But I don't know if there is or isn't a way to do that though; my tutorial's broad, sweeping statements said Java's security wouldn't allow it, but someone less by-the-book might. ;) >>Now before everyone goes complaining about how Java only works in a >>browser, Let me set the record straight about Java: Java CAN be used to >>create normal stand-alone applications. Doing this is explained in the >>docs you get when you download the Java Development Kit from Sun (YES, >>JAVA IS FREE! 8) You only have to pay if you want a development >>environment.) Look through the tutorial thaat is available, they >>explain it to you. The Java docs were confusing to me; when you say "stand-alone applications" do you mean like a self-contained program, that doesn't need the java runtime? (or whatever that word is...) >Development kit...? free? got a URL? Maybe there is a way to make applets >that *work*, then I can make some for my web site. :-) Java's home page is http://java.sun.com/ or http://java.sun.com/products/jdk/1.1/index.html for the download of the JDK.. >Also, what is Java exactly? Sounds like a C++-type OOP language... how >does it work precisely? you hear hype about it but very little real info. Java is a programming language, which, which is not supported by any computer. The reasoning behind this (kinda fuzzy, yes) is that since it's not native to any computer, they can get any computer to run it, via an emulator called the Java "Virtual Machine." This is a similar concept to a language I'm trying to learn (Inform) except Java is much more graphic-oriented by virtue of being much younger. Java makes two kinds of programs: applets, which are designed to be used with HTML and web browsers; and applications, which run from a Java interpreter compatible with your system. >BTW I got two copies of this fused together into one message...anyone else >get this? No, but I got -your- message dated about an hour before the original... >>BKNambo "this message written from the bottom up ..." -- (badger@innocent.com) --this sig under reconstruction b/c of relocation of URL-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nigel Long Subject: (fractint) old user, new problem Date: 13 Oct 1997 12:50:13 PDT Hello to you all, I am a newbie on this discussion group so please forgive any breaches of netiquette or appropriateness. I have been using Fractint since v8, on a succession of PCs. All went well until the latest 'upgrade', when I lost my trusty Trident graphics card and acquired a Diamond Stealth 2000 Pro . Now I cannot seem to find a decent mode to run Fractint in! The VESA selections in Fractint.cfg do not work, and the Truecolor modes produce nothing but a shade of dark blue. I can run using the b/w, and ultra.low res modes - but I -really- like using 800x600 and 1024x768 modes. Is there anybody out there in the fractal multiverse who has succeeded in persuading Fractint 19.6 to do anything useful on this kind of hardware? Yours, suffering withdrawal symptoms already, Nigel Long n.h.long@soton.ac.uk Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Kevin Nambo" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 07:56:29 -0400 -----Original Message----- >Java is a programming language, which, which is not supported by any >computer. Oops, grammar check! I edited that sentence & forgot to reread it. remove ", which," Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 09:11:56 -0500 Brock Kevin Nambo wrote: > > > I don't think I would recommend the Java version of Fractint, especially > since uh,.. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, Java didn't > enjoy the writing of files... and with our dependence on PAR's and FRM's, > this could be a problem. But I don't know if there is or isn't a way to do > that though; my tutorial's broad, sweeping statements said Java's security > wouldn't allow it, but someone less by-the-book might. ;) > Oh yeah... forgot about that. In that case, I'd say contact Sun and say that because Java doesn't save and load anything, you're not going to use it and that if they really want for Java to become the development platform of choice, they'll have to include stuff like that. Just imagine... a word processor where you can't save! YUCK! (That was probably off topic) Anyway, you could probably write native code to support that... wouldn't make Sun happy though, with there "100% Pure Java" initiative and all. > > > The Java docs were confusing to me; when you say "stand-alone applications" > do you mean like a self-contained program, that doesn't need the java > runtime? (or whatever that word is...) > Sorry, should have clarified that. YES, you would need the java runtime to run FractJava(!). You could put it in a .BAT file, though, with the following command:java FractJava or whatever you decide to call the main "class" of the program. > >BTW I got two copies of this fused together into one message...anyone else > >get this? Possibly because I included a link to my E-mail and Netscape gave me this message that "some recipients can't handle HTML" or something like that. Then it gave me an option to send as both text and HTML, so I chose that. You probably received both formats. Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? (Paul's response) Date: 13 Oct 1997 09:27:52 -0500 > < my original comments snipped> > Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Do a web search and there are > ten trillion fractal applets. And they are all slow, balky, GPF'y, buggy, > and tend to have few features. > I meant an application that doesn't require a Web browser. I did a search for that and found a grand total of zero before I lost my patience. Besides, the ones I tested didn't have any GFPs, and I actually found ONE with decent speed! > > >Java even has arbitrary precision types built in (again, look through > >the docs -- this time under the predefined classes descriptions) which > >is seriously kewl. > > Special pentium optimized assembly routines for special cases, like > complex square, cube, log, cosine? Probably not, but who knows? I literally discovered all this yesterday (which probably means I shouldn't tout Java TOO much... ;) ) AND I only became interested because I read about it in one of SunSoft's hundred books about Java and how "revolutionary" it is. Of course, the same book extols the virtues of the NC (Network Computer), so I don't know how whether I should trust it as far as I can throw it.(If that wasn't off topic, I don't know what is... except for list administration issues :] ) Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) old user, new problem Date: 13 Oct 1997 09:43:18 -0500 Nigel Long wrote: > Hello to you all, > > I am a newbie on this discussion group so please forgive any breaches of > netiquette or appropriateness. > > I have been using Fractint since v8, on a succession of PCs. All went well until the > latest 'upgrade', when I lost my trusty Trident graphics card and acquired a > Diamond Stealth 2000 Pro . Now I cannot seem to find a decent mode to run Fractint > in! The VESA selections in Fractint.cfg do not work, and the Truecolor modes > produce nothing but a shade of dark blue. I can run using the b/w, and ultra.low res > modes - but I -really- like using 800x600 and 1024x768 modes. > > Is there anybody out there in the fractal multiverse who has succeeded in > persuading Fractint 19.6 to do anything useful on this kind of hardware? This is very strange. I have a Stealth 3D 2000 Pro (which, I take it, is the same as a Stealth 2000 Pro) and it works perfectly with Fractint. I can even get the 1600X1200 Stealth V mode to work.BTW, you're SUPPOSED to get dark blue in the truecolor modes, at least for this release. The programmers haven't fully implemented it yet, so you only get the first 256 colors out of the full color range. There was a way to test the truecolor mode, but I forgot what to set debug= to to get it. Anyway, I have to go to class now. Sorry I can't help you much. Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Edward Avis Subject: (fractint) RE: Fractint and Java Date: 13 Oct 1997 15:57:58 +0100 Two points: - Just because there are dozens of lousy slow buggy etc. fractal generators in Java about on the Web, it doesn't mean they have to be that bad. There are hundreds of really bad fractal programs for DOS, but that doesn't stop Fractint being great. - AFAIK if you install the Java Development Kit (JDK) from Sun, you can save files from Java apps. -- Ed Avis Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thore Berntsen Subject: RE: (fractint) RE: Fractint and Java Date: 13 Oct 1997 17:34:01 +0200 To those of You who are discussing Java : There is a very nice Fractint utillity called Filmer written in Java by David Mansfield at : http://ariel.cobite.com/~julian/filmer/ You will even find the source of the program at thos site! Thore Berntsen thbernt@vbdas.no >---------- >From: Edward Avis[SMTP:EPA@datcon.co.uk] >Sent: 13. oktober 1997 16:57 >To: 'fractint-digest@xmission.com' >Subject: (fractint) RE: Fractint and Java > >Two points: > > - Just because there are dozens of lousy slow buggy etc. fractal >generators in Java about on the Web, it doesn't mean they have to be >that bad. > There are hundreds of really bad fractal programs for DOS, but that >doesn't stop Fractint being great. > > - AFAIK if you install the Java Development Kit (JDK) from Sun, you >can save files from Java apps. > >-- >Ed Avis > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: Re: (fractint) old user, new problem Date: 13 Oct 1997 12:16:01 -0400 Justin Kolodziej wrote: >> The programmers haven't fully implemented it yet, so you only get the >> first 256 colors out of the full color range. There was a way to test >> the truecolor mode, but I forgot what to set debug=3D to to get it. I think it's debug=3D500, then you must use type=3Dtest. - Sylvie Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) textsafe=??? Date: 13 Oct 1997 12:17:46 -0500 I've tried to use the TEXTSAFE=SAVE parameter because when I switch away from Fractint in WIndows to do something else, and then try to switch back, the whole image is trashed! Unfortunately, when I try to do this using the "g" command, Fractint gives me the funny error noise and says, "Oops, I couldn't understand the argument textsafe=save." This seems odd because other people have posted messages saying that they use it. Should I be using this as a command-line parameter, or in a config file, or what? Or is my version of Fractint just busted? Justin K. "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) textsafe=??? Date: 13 Oct 1997 12:32:56 -0500 Justin A. Kolodziej wrote: > I've tried to use the TEXTSAFE=SAVE parameter because when I switch away > from Fractint in WIndows to do something else, and then try to switch > back, the whole image is trashed! Unfortunately, when I try to do this > using the "g" command, Fractint gives me the funny error noise and says, > "Oops, I couldn't understand the argument textsafe=save." This seems > odd because other people have posted messages saying that they use it. > Should I be using this as a command-line parameter, or in a config file, > or what? Or is my version of Fractint just busted? Please ignore this. I went and actually tried textsafe=save as a command-line parameter, and it worked! I should really learn to try everything before writing in with a problem... DUH!!!!!! > Justin K. > > "I only use Windows because: > 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( > 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation > (I think) :( :*( :^( > 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software > store?! ;)" > -Me > > Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Goswin Brederlow Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:45:45 +0200 "Damien M. Jones" writes: > [NOTE: This is somewhat technical material. Non-programmers should skip > this message.] > > Evin, > > - Well, I say keep the integer math. Despite what some people have said, > - integer math is, in general, faster than floating point, with a few > - exceptions. > > OK, to clarify the point: on an Intel Pentium, the FPU multiply of 64x64 > (mantissa only, exponents are just added) occurs with one-cycle throughput > rather than 10-cycle throughput for a 32x32 integer multiply. This is the > most common case where the FPU is faster. Other cases are square roots (70 > vs. a few hundred, depending on your integer algorithm) and trig or log > functions (huge differences). On an MC68060 its 2 cycles for a 32 Bit int multiply (and the cpu can put that into a pipeline and do other stuff inbetween) and more for fpu. I think even with 64 Bit ints its faster than fpu. This is also true for other cpu's. On intel cpu's the fpu is highly optimized and much faster than the crapy int unit. Thats why you gain with fpu there. I vote against removeing the int code, but for porting it to 32 bit and 64 bit. > MMX will probably not help fractals much. It is true that the MMX multiply > is fast--one cycle to do four 16x16 multiplies--but the catch is, it is > ONLY a 16-bit multiply. Sixteen bits of precision just doesn't get you > very far in fractals; and while it is possible to use this for extended > precision, it is highly unlikely to be faster than the FPU's 64x64 > multiply, especially when you factor in the rest of the work that needs to > be done. you can do x^2 and y^2 at the same time with mmx. You can also emulate a 32/64 Bit multiply with a few four 16x16 multiply cycles. I think it won't be much slower and you also have more registers to store the numbers and don't need to write to memory. > Actually, the problem FractInt has is that multiply instructions (IMUL and > MUL) are *not* pairable instructions on the Pentium, and so not only do > they consume 10-11 cycles each, but they *also* prevent other instructions > from running at the same time. On the PPro and P-II, the assignment of Thats a intel problem and other cpu's should also be considered. > I think the bigger issue is whether it is *worth* porting all that integer > assembly code to a 32-bit environment. Me, I don't think it's worth it. > Yes, there are some folks who have images based on artifacts in the integer > code. I'm not convinced it's worth preserving the artifacting, especially > if it hinders the growth of FractInt in other areas. If I had to choose > between having synchronous orbits working fast, or integer math support in > a 32-bit environment, guess which one I'm gonna choose? (Good thing I > don't decide stuff, huh? :) Why not use a library that does this? There are libraries for n Bit interger operations out there which can be utilised. One just have to find one that is optimised for small integers and one for big integers (>256 Bit). May the Source be with you. Mrvn Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Goswin Brederlow Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 22:53:43 +0200 "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> writes: > [1 ] > In the Integer v. Float thread, the suggestion was made to compile > Fractint in the future using DJGPP. This would produce a 32-bit DOS > application AND have the advantage of being easily portable to other > systems, assuming I remember the discussion correctly. > > My response is: Sure, go ahead with it for now. But for a future > release (Fractint 50 or thereabouts ;) ) why not rewrite the whole > program in Java? This would make the program universally useable (even > on Macintosh(probably)). You're aiming for V50 being Java could be right and before that Version javal probably will in no way be usable for highly cpu demanding stuff like fractals. Fractals are pretty much the only things left that are worth writeing in asm for. Java might or might not ever be fast enough and at the time being its unuseable for anything but dreams and www aplets. If the aim is to have fractint running on any computer then C is the way to go and C is fast enough. Also it's easy to have inline asm for various cpu's. C++ or Objective C is also an option and there isn't a differenc in speed if it's done right. With todays compilers for C its also hardly neccessary to write inline asm for more then the bare core of the formula (if even). On a PPC for example the iner loop of a Mandelbrod Fractal can be written in 6 asm lines, the rest of the programm can be wastefull, because its hardly used. May the Source be with you. Mrvn Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 14:25:12 -0400 > Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, Java didn't > enjoy the writing of files... There was TWO different category of Java programs Java "applets" (downloaded from the Net and running in a browser, in a Web context) can't access the local file system. --> Security Java "applications" (running from the command line) have the same access to the file system than others applications. Best Regards from Toulouse, France. Thierry. p.s. If you remove Int math from Fractint, you can rename "Fractint" to "Fractint" (Fractals are Internationals :-) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Kevin Nambo" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 13 Oct 1997 17:42:37 -0400 > There was TWO different category of > Java programs > >Java "applets" (downloaded from the Net and running in >a browser, in a Web context) can't access the local file >system. --> Security > >Java "applications" (running from the command line) >have the same access to the file system than others >applications. Ah. Okay, I wasn't sure whether applications had the same limits as applets. >>BKNambo -- | H badger@innocent.com | UIN: 1936556 ____ __| |=@==== http://come.to/brocks.place | [ ] TSILB /_ \ / /| | H H H "World Domination Through Trivia" -S3Kitties / /\ \/ / | | H H H Marcher -- Just my imagination -- Nightwatch /_/ \__/ | Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robin Y. Millette" Subject: RE: (fractint) Subject is irrelevant - you will be assimilated! Date: 13 Oct 1997 23:38:45 -0400 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD83B.6337C280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- Sent: dimanche, 12 octobre 1997 23:17 Dunno. Why do you end every line with "=3D"? I don't do it on purpose... Using Outlook (not Express), that might = explain it according to another poster... Maybe I should hit enter to = finish of my lines... put that only for paragraphs, right? > I'm using Fractint 19.6 in a dos box (4dos, actually :) thru Windows = =3D >95... When I open a dos box, I find out I have 617k of conventionnal = =3D >memory left (not bad I think...). So here is my terrible question: why = =3D >can't I shell to Dos from Fractint? Wherever I am, (menu or image...), = I =3D >hit 'D' but I end up calculating the current image... It does this to me too in Win 95 on my 486dx2 50 with 8 megs ram. It doesn't on my *new P166 with 32 megs RAM ;) ;) ;)*... so it has = something to do with ram/speed. Hum... I have a P90/24Megs... should be such a problem either... But = like I said, it ain't that bad anyhow. [Smallish binary snipped] I think it's poor netiquette(?) to post binaries here... PAR files and formulas are welcome though. Again, I don't know where that came from... Is it happening again? I = changed a few options before sending this particular message... An email = might be a better idea... I'm keeping it to Fractint from now on, with one last request: could you = make your subjects meaningfull, especially when replying? Otherwise we = get way off track... CIAO! ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' Robin Y. Millette ICQ uin: 1266281 Waglo Institution http://www.generation.net/~millette Answer the Bovine Call! 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BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAESACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAANcJ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCD83B.6337C280-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nigel Long Subject: Re: (fractint) old user, new problem Date: 14 Oct 1997 10:55:57 PDT re: Diamond stealth 200 Pro video card. This card uses an S3 Virge chip, and is the OEM version (not retail). Every time I try to access one of the VESA autodetect modes it tells me that this mode is not supported by my card. It works fine with other DOS apps however. I am not interested in the modes greater than 256 colors, but I do have a huge collection of 1024x768x256 images I use all the time, and it would be nice to be able to use them. I am not using windows in any flavour when I try to run Fractint (I have a dual boot configuration). Everything points to Fractint's VESA detection failing with this chipset, but why? since other people seem to have no problems. Are any of you using any kind of extra VESA driver to run the card in DOS? Nigel Long. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 14 Oct 1997 10:34:01 -0400 (EDT) In response to someone's comments about relative processor cycles for ints and floats on a 68xxx processor, I would again request that people try and give time comparisons on as many processors as possible, inasmuch as converting numbers that are actually floating-point to integers must itself use some processor time, nu? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Books Date: 14 Oct 1997 10:22:10 -0600 Some time ago, the Library of Science book club had an offer where you could get "Fractal Geometry of Nature", "Fractals Everywhere" and another fractal book all for $3 when you joined the club. I'm not sure if they are still making that offer though. I joined on that offer and it was indeed a great deal :) -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) Re: Synchronous orbits Date: 14 Oct 1997 10:27:53 -0600 In article , Evin C Robertson writes: > I just have to ask: What's all this talk about synchronous orbits with > fractals? Did an altavista search and came up with nothing related to > the topic. I had it explained to me once, but now I forget... is it in the sci.fractals FAQ? -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 14 Oct 1997 10:30:45 -0600 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5101.876846632.1@woody> In article <19971011.090850.10118.1.newstedclan@juno.com> , newstedclan@juno.com writes: > Hey Sylvie, > I tried to run "rand_generic" and got an "undefined function" error > indicating that "3D" was unefined. What did I do wrong? That's what happens when people post messages with the "Content-Encoding" of "printed-quotable". Replace all instances of =XX with the character whose ASCII code is XX in hexadecimal. ASCII chart appended for reference. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ascii.txt"; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5101.876846632.2@woody> NAME ascii - map of ASCII character set DESCRIPTION The ASCII character set defines a 1-to-1 mapping of characters to 8-bit values: octal: |000 nul |001 soh |002 stx |003 etx |004 eot |005 enq |006 ack |007 bel | |010 bs |011 ht |012 nl |013 vt |014 np |015 cr |016 so |017 si | |020 dle |021 dc1 |022 dc2 |023 dc3 |024 dc4 |025 nak |026 syn |027 etb | |030 can |031 em |032 sub |033 esc |034 fs |035 gs |036 rs |037 us | |040 sp |041 ! |042 " |043 # |044 $ |045 % |046 & |047 ' | |050 ( |051 ) |052 * |053 + |054 , |055 - |056 . |057 / | |060 0 |061 1 |062 2 |063 3 |064 4 |065 5 |066 6 |067 7 | |070 8 |071 9 |072 : |073 ; |074 < |075 = |076 > |077 ? | |100 @ |101 A |102 B |103 C |104 D |105 E |106 F |107 G | |110 H |111 I |112 J |113 K |114 L |115 M |116 N |117 O | |120 P |121 Q |122 R |123 S |124 T |125 U |126 V |127 W | |130 X |131 Y |132 Z |133 [ |134 \ |135 ] |136 ^ |137 _ | |140 ` |141 a |142 b |143 c |144 d |145 e |146 f |147 g | |150 h |151 i |152 j |153 k |154 l |155 m |156 n |157 o | |160 p |161 q |162 r |163 s |164 t |165 u |166 v |167 w | |170 x |171 y |172 z |173 { |174 | |175 } |176 ~ |177 del | hexadecimal: | 00 nul | 01 soh | 02 stx | 03 etx | 04 eot | 05 enq | 06 ack | 07 bel | | 08 bs | 09 ht | 0a nl | 0b vt | 0c np | 0d cr | 0e so | 0f si | | 10 dle | 11 dc1 | 12 dc2 | 13 dc3 | 14 dc4 | 15 nak | 16 syn | 17 etb | | 18 can | 19 em | 1a sub | 1b esc | 1c fs | 1d gs | 1e rs | 1f us | | 20 sp | 21 ! | 22 " | 23 # | 24 $ | 25 % | 26 & | 27 ' | | 28 ( | 29 ) | 2a * | 2b + | 2c , | 2d - | 2e . | 2f / | | 30 0 | 31 1 | 32 2 | 33 3 | 34 4 | 35 5 | 36 6 | 37 7 | | 38 8 | 39 9 | 3a : | 3b ; | 3c < | 3d = | 3e > | 3f ? | | 40 @ | 41 A | 42 B | 43 C | 44 D | 45 E | 46 F | 47 G | | 48 H | 49 I | 4a J | 4b K | 4c L | 4d M | 4e N | 4f O | | 50 P | 51 Q | 52 R | 53 S | 54 T | 55 U | 56 V | 57 W | | 58 X | 59 Y | 5a Z | 5b [ | 5c \ | 5d ] | 5e ^ | 5f _ | | 60 ` | 61 a | 62 b | 63 c | 64 d | 65 e | 66 f | 67 g | | 68 h | 69 i | 6a j | 6b k | 6c l | 6d m | 6e n | 6f o | | 70 p | 71 q | 72 r | 73 s | 74 t | 75 u | 76 v | 77 w | | 78 x | 79 y | 7a z | 7b { | 7c | | 7d } | 7e ~ | 7f del | decimal: | 0 nul | 1 soh | 2 stx | 3 etx | 4 eot | 5 enq | 6 ack | 7 bel | | 8 bs | 9 ht | 10 nl | 11 vt | 12 np | 13 cr | 14 so | 15 si | | 16 dle | 17 dc1 | 18 dc2 | 19 dc3 | 20 dc4 | 21 nak | 22 syn | 23 etb | | 24 can | 25 em | 26 sub | 27 esc | 28 fs | 29 gs | 30 rs | 31 us | | 32 sp | 33 ! | 34 " | 35 # | 36 $ | 37 % | 38 & | 39 ' | | 40 ( | 41 ) | 42 * | 43 + | 44 , | 45 - | 46 . | 47 / | | 48 0 | 49 1 | 50 2 | 51 3 | 52 4 | 53 5 | 54 6 | 55 7 | | 56 8 | 57 9 | 58 : | 59 ; | 60 < | 61 = | 62 > | 63 ? | | 64 @ | 65 A | 66 B | 67 C | 68 D | 69 E | 70 F | 71 G | | 72 H | 73 I | 74 J | 75 K | 76 L | 77 M | 78 N | 79 O | | 80 P | 81 Q | 82 R | 83 S | 84 T | 85 U | 86 V | 87 W | | 88 X | 89 Y | 90 Z | 91 [ | 92 \ | 93 ] | 94 ^ | 95 _ | | 96 ` | 97 a | 98 b | 99 c |100 d |101 e |102 f |103 g | |104 h |105 i |106 j |107 k |108 l |109 m |110 n |111 o | |112 p |113 q |114 r |115 s |116 t |117 u |118 v |119 w | |120 x |121 y |122 z |123 { |124 | |125 } |126 ~ |127 del | ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) Remove Int math ? Date: 14 Oct 1997 12:22:33 -0500 Hey! Thanks for the chart. Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cynthia Peterson Subject: (fractint) FRACTAL ANIMATIONS Date: 14 Oct 1997 12:51:09 -0500 We are looking for programs that create FRACTAL ANIMATIONS. The search is actually to identify companies to approach for a teaming effort to integrate fractal animation capabilities into an existing VB/C++ program. Please send me your suggestions as to where to find such programs. Additionally, if you are an excellent C++ programmer with fractal animation experience interested in being part of an innovative team please respond via email to: peterson@rdbewss.redstone.army.mil --Cindy peterson@rdbewss.redstone.army.mil (205)876-9247 (205)876-5777 __________________________________________________________ 0000 \\\ """" """" O .. O .. @@ ; ' 00 ' ~ (-) (-) (__) __________________________________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 13:21:23 -0500 I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some questions. 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only 256, assuming red=1, grn=1, blu=1 would be the same as red=120, grn=120, blu=120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective colors? I hope this doesn't come across as TOO lazy. But I will send a FREE Newsted Fractal to anyone who responds! Really! (noe how could you possibly pass THAT up??!!) Thanks, Nuke p.s. Ever observe fractal conversations in your morning meetings? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 12:23:32 -0600 In article <19971014.132125.12398.0.leenewsted@juno.com> , leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) writes: > 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only > 256, assuming red=1, grn=1, blu=1 would be the same as red=120, grn=120, > blu=120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) Color maps select 256 colors from a palette of 16.7 million (2^24). So there are 16.7 million distinct colors from which you can select 256 to place in the colormap. > 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective > colors? I'm not sure what you're asking for here? Typically fractint uses the iteration count as the index into the colormap to color a pixel. Various options change this behavior, and the concept of "iteration count" doesn't have the same meaning for some fractal types (cellular and ifs come to mind) -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 14 Oct 1997 12:37:57 -0600 It was asked recently what compilers supported 80-bit long double floating point format. According to the documentation for Borland's C++Builder, it does support this format. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 14:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: > > I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some > questions. > 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only > 256, assuming red=1, grn=1, blu=1 would be the same as red=120, grn=120, > blu=120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) > You should interpret these as intensities. You're mapping the truecolor, 16.7 million palette (256 cubed, not factorial) to a 256 color palette. 0,0,0, is pure black; 1,1,1, is a very dark grey; 255,255,255 is white. > 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective > colors? Obviously not, for so many. There are a number of utilities that do nothing but show you what a colorvalue produces; I can't point to any offhand, but as most were made to help write web pages you might look in that direction. The palette editor and the eyedropper tool of any paint program (i.e. paintshop pro at jasc.com) will also be able to do this. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 13:21:42 -0600 ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6423.876856039.1@woody> In article <19971014.132125.12398.0.leenewsted@juno.com> , leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) writes: > 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective > colors? Oh. DUH! Sorry, brain cramp on my part :). Now I understand what you're asking for... Perhaps the attached file will help you out? Its included with the X Window System as a database of color names. The first three numbers are the red, green and blue components of the color. If you get really interested in computer representations of color, you might want to read the Color Space FAQ. . Read that FAQ if you really want to understand the ins and outs of computer representation of color (and why it doesn't always do what you expect; for instance evenly spaced values in RGB space aren't perceived as evenly spaced changes in color). -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="rgb.txt"; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6423.876856039.2@woody> ! $XConsortium: rgb.txt,v 10.41 94/02/20 18:39:36 rws Exp $ 255 250 250 snow 248 248 255 ghost white 248 248 255 GhostWhite 245 245 245 white smoke 245 245 245 WhiteSmoke 220 220 220 gainsboro 255 250 240 floral white 255 250 240 FloralWhite 253 245 230 old lace 253 245 230 OldLace 250 240 230 linen 250 235 215 antique white 250 235 215 AntiqueWhite 255 239 213 papaya whip 255 239 213 PapayaWhip 255 235 205 blanched almond 255 235 205 BlanchedAlmond 255 228 196 bisque 255 218 185 peach puff 255 218 185 PeachPuff 255 222 173 navajo white 255 222 173 NavajoWhite 255 228 181 moccasin 255 248 220 cornsilk 255 255 240 ivory 255 250 205 lemon chiffon 255 250 205 LemonChiffon 255 245 238 seashell 240 255 240 honeydew 245 255 250 mint cream 245 255 250 MintCream 240 255 255 azure 240 248 255 alice blue 240 248 255 AliceBlue 230 230 250 lavender 255 240 245 lavender blush 255 240 245 LavenderBlush 255 228 225 misty rose 255 228 225 MistyRose 255 255 255 white 0 0 0 black 47 79 79 dark slate gray 47 79 79 DarkSlateGray 47 79 79 dark slate grey 47 79 79 DarkSlateGrey 105 105 105 dim gray 105 105 105 DimGray 105 105 105 dim grey 105 105 105 DimGrey 112 128 144 slate gray 112 128 144 SlateGray 112 128 144 slate grey 112 128 144 SlateGrey 119 136 153 light slate gray 119 136 153 LightSlateGray 119 136 153 light slate grey 119 136 153 LightSlateGrey 190 190 190 gray 190 190 190 grey 211 211 211 light grey 211 211 211 LightGrey 211 211 211 light gray 211 211 211 LightGray 25 25 112 midnight blue 25 25 112 MidnightBlue 0 0 128 navy 0 0 128 navy blue 0 0 128 NavyBlue 100 149 237 cornflower blue 100 149 237 CornflowerBlue 72 61 139 dark slate blue 72 61 139 DarkSlateBlue 106 90 205 slate blue 106 90 205 SlateBlue 123 104 238 medium slate blue 123 104 238 MediumSlateBlue 132 112 255 light slate blue 132 112 255 LightSlateBlue 0 0 205 medium blue 0 0 205 MediumBlue 65 105 225 royal blue 65 105 225 RoyalBlue 0 0 255 blue 30 144 255 dodger blue 30 144 255 DodgerBlue 0 191 255 deep sky blue 0 191 255 DeepSkyBlue 135 206 235 sky blue 135 206 235 SkyBlue 135 206 250 light sky blue 135 206 250 LightSkyBlue 70 130 180 steel blue 70 130 180 SteelBlue 176 196 222 light steel blue 176 196 222 LightSteelBlue 173 216 230 light blue 173 216 230 LightBlue 176 224 230 powder blue 176 224 230 PowderBlue 175 238 238 pale turquoise 175 238 238 PaleTurquoise 0 206 209 dark turquoise 0 206 209 DarkTurquoise 72 209 204 medium turquoise 72 209 204 MediumTurquoise 64 224 208 turquoise 0 255 255 cyan 224 255 255 light cyan 224 255 255 LightCyan 95 158 160 cadet blue 95 158 160 CadetBlue 102 205 170 medium aquamarine 102 205 170 MediumAquamarine 127 255 212 aquamarine 0 100 0 dark green 0 100 0 DarkGreen 85 107 47 dark olive green 85 107 47 DarkOliveGreen 143 188 143 dark sea green 143 188 143 DarkSeaGreen 46 139 87 sea green 46 139 87 SeaGreen 60 179 113 medium sea green 60 179 113 MediumSeaGreen 32 178 170 light sea green 32 178 170 LightSeaGreen 152 251 152 pale green 152 251 152 PaleGreen 0 255 127 spring green 0 255 127 SpringGreen 124 252 0 lawn green 124 252 0 LawnGreen 0 255 0 green 127 255 0 chartreuse 0 250 154 medium spring green 0 250 154 MediumSpringGreen 173 255 47 green yellow 173 255 47 GreenYellow 50 205 50 lime green 50 205 50 LimeGreen 154 205 50 yellow green 154 205 50 YellowGreen 34 139 34 forest green 34 139 34 ForestGreen 107 142 35 olive drab 107 142 35 OliveDrab 189 183 107 dark khaki 189 183 107 DarkKhaki 240 230 140 khaki 238 232 170 pale goldenrod 238 232 170 PaleGoldenrod 250 250 210 light goldenrod yellow 250 250 210 LightGoldenrodYellow 255 255 224 light yellow 255 255 224 LightYellow 255 255 0 yellow 255 215 0 gold 238 221 130 light goldenrod 238 221 130 LightGoldenrod 218 165 32 goldenrod 184 134 11 dark goldenrod 184 134 11 DarkGoldenrod 188 143 143 rosy brown 188 143 143 RosyBrown 205 92 92 indian red 205 92 92 IndianRed 139 69 19 saddle brown 139 69 19 SaddleBrown 160 82 45 sienna 205 133 63 peru 222 184 135 burlywood 245 245 220 beige 245 222 179 wheat 244 164 96 sandy brown 244 164 96 SandyBrown 210 180 140 tan 210 105 30 chocolate 178 34 34 firebrick 165 42 42 brown 233 150 122 dark salmon 233 150 122 DarkSalmon 250 128 114 salmon 255 160 122 light salmon 255 160 122 LightSalmon 255 165 0 orange 255 140 0 dark orange 255 140 0 DarkOrange 255 127 80 coral 240 128 128 light coral 240 128 128 LightCoral 255 99 71 tomato 255 69 0 orange red 255 69 0 OrangeRed 255 0 0 red 255 105 180 hot pink 255 105 180 HotPink 255 20 147 deep pink 255 20 147 DeepPink 255 192 203 pink 255 182 193 light pink 255 182 193 LightPink 219 112 147 pale violet red 219 112 147 PaleVioletRed 176 48 96 maroon 199 21 133 medium violet red 199 21 133 MediumVioletRed 208 32 144 violet red 208 32 144 VioletRed 255 0 255 magenta 238 130 238 violet 221 160 221 plum 218 112 214 orchid 186 85 211 medium orchid 186 85 211 MediumOrchid 153 50 204 dark orchid 153 50 204 DarkOrchid 148 0 211 dark violet 148 0 211 DarkViolet 138 43 226 blue violet 138 43 226 BlueViolet 160 32 240 purple 147 112 219 medium purple 147 112 219 MediumPurple 216 191 216 thistle 255 250 250 snow1 238 233 233 snow2 205 201 201 snow3 139 137 137 snow4 255 245 238 seashell1 238 229 222 seashell2 205 197 191 seashell3 139 134 130 seashell4 255 239 219 AntiqueWhite1 238 223 204 AntiqueWhite2 205 192 176 AntiqueWhite3 139 131 120 AntiqueWhite4 255 228 196 bisque1 238 213 183 bisque2 205 183 158 bisque3 139 125 107 bisque4 255 218 185 PeachPuff1 238 203 173 PeachPuff2 205 175 149 PeachPuff3 139 119 101 PeachPuff4 255 222 173 NavajoWhite1 238 207 161 NavajoWhite2 205 179 139 NavajoWhite3 139 121 94 NavajoWhite4 255 250 205 LemonChiffon1 238 233 191 LemonChiffon2 205 201 165 LemonChiffon3 139 137 112 LemonChiffon4 255 248 220 cornsilk1 238 232 205 cornsilk2 205 200 177 cornsilk3 139 136 120 cornsilk4 255 255 240 ivory1 238 238 224 ivory2 205 205 193 ivory3 139 139 131 ivory4 240 255 240 honeydew1 224 238 224 honeydew2 193 205 193 honeydew3 131 139 131 honeydew4 255 240 245 LavenderBlush1 238 224 229 LavenderBlush2 205 193 197 LavenderBlush3 139 131 134 LavenderBlush4 255 228 225 MistyRose1 238 213 210 MistyRose2 205 183 181 MistyRose3 139 125 123 MistyRose4 240 255 255 azure1 224 238 238 azure2 193 205 205 azure3 131 139 139 azure4 131 111 255 SlateBlue1 122 103 238 SlateBlue2 105 89 205 SlateBlue3 71 60 139 SlateBlue4 72 118 255 RoyalBlue1 67 110 238 RoyalBlue2 58 95 205 RoyalBlue3 39 64 139 RoyalBlue4 0 0 255 blue1 0 0 238 blue2 0 0 205 blue3 0 0 139 blue4 30 144 255 DodgerBlue1 28 134 238 DodgerBlue2 24 116 205 DodgerBlue3 16 78 139 DodgerBlue4 99 184 255 SteelBlue1 92 172 238 SteelBlue2 79 148 205 SteelBlue3 54 100 139 SteelBlue4 0 191 255 DeepSkyBlue1 0 178 238 DeepSkyBlue2 0 154 205 DeepSkyBlue3 0 104 139 DeepSkyBlue4 135 206 255 SkyBlue1 126 192 238 SkyBlue2 108 166 205 SkyBlue3 74 112 139 SkyBlue4 176 226 255 LightSkyBlue1 164 211 238 LightSkyBlue2 141 182 205 LightSkyBlue3 96 123 139 LightSkyBlue4 198 226 255 SlateGray1 185 211 238 SlateGray2 159 182 205 SlateGray3 108 123 139 SlateGray4 202 225 255 LightSteelBlue1 188 210 238 LightSteelBlue2 162 181 205 LightSteelBlue3 110 123 139 LightSteelBlue4 191 239 255 LightBlue1 178 223 238 LightBlue2 154 192 205 LightBlue3 104 131 139 LightBlue4 224 255 255 LightCyan1 209 238 238 LightCyan2 180 205 205 LightCyan3 122 139 139 LightCyan4 187 255 255 PaleTurquoise1 174 238 238 PaleTurquoise2 150 205 205 PaleTurquoise3 102 139 139 PaleTurquoise4 152 245 255 CadetBlue1 142 229 238 CadetBlue2 122 197 205 CadetBlue3 83 134 139 CadetBlue4 0 245 255 turquoise1 0 229 238 turquoise2 0 197 205 turquoise3 0 134 139 turquoise4 0 255 255 cyan1 0 238 238 cyan2 0 205 205 cyan3 0 139 139 cyan4 151 255 255 DarkSlateGray1 141 238 238 DarkSlateGray2 121 205 205 DarkSlateGray3 82 139 139 DarkSlateGray4 127 255 212 aquamarine1 118 238 198 aquamarine2 102 205 170 aquamarine3 69 139 116 aquamarine4 193 255 193 DarkSeaGreen1 180 238 180 DarkSeaGreen2 155 205 155 DarkSeaGreen3 105 139 105 DarkSeaGreen4 84 255 159 SeaGreen1 78 238 148 SeaGreen2 67 205 128 SeaGreen3 46 139 87 SeaGreen4 154 255 154 PaleGreen1 144 238 144 PaleGreen2 124 205 124 PaleGreen3 84 139 84 PaleGreen4 0 255 127 SpringGreen1 0 238 118 SpringGreen2 0 205 102 SpringGreen3 0 139 69 SpringGreen4 0 255 0 green1 0 238 0 green2 0 205 0 green3 0 139 0 green4 127 255 0 chartreuse1 118 238 0 chartreuse2 102 205 0 chartreuse3 69 139 0 chartreuse4 192 255 62 OliveDrab1 179 238 58 OliveDrab2 154 205 50 OliveDrab3 105 139 34 OliveDrab4 202 255 112 DarkOliveGreen1 188 238 104 DarkOliveGreen2 162 205 90 DarkOliveGreen3 110 139 61 DarkOliveGreen4 255 246 143 khaki1 238 230 133 khaki2 205 198 115 khaki3 139 134 78 khaki4 255 236 139 LightGoldenrod1 238 220 130 LightGoldenrod2 205 190 112 LightGoldenrod3 139 129 76 LightGoldenrod4 255 255 224 LightYellow1 238 238 209 LightYellow2 205 205 180 LightYellow3 139 139 122 LightYellow4 255 255 0 yellow1 238 238 0 yellow2 205 205 0 yellow3 139 139 0 yellow4 255 215 0 gold1 238 201 0 gold2 205 173 0 gold3 139 117 0 gold4 255 193 37 goldenrod1 238 180 34 goldenrod2 205 155 29 goldenrod3 139 105 20 goldenrod4 255 185 15 DarkGoldenrod1 238 173 14 DarkGoldenrod2 205 149 12 DarkGoldenrod3 139 101 8 DarkGoldenrod4 255 193 193 RosyBrown1 238 180 180 RosyBrown2 205 155 155 RosyBrown3 139 105 105 RosyBrown4 255 106 106 IndianRed1 238 99 99 IndianRed2 205 85 85 IndianRed3 139 58 58 IndianRed4 255 130 71 sienna1 238 121 66 sienna2 205 104 57 sienna3 139 71 38 sienna4 255 211 155 burlywood1 238 197 145 burlywood2 205 170 125 burlywood3 139 115 85 burlywood4 255 231 186 wheat1 238 216 174 wheat2 205 186 150 wheat3 139 126 102 wheat4 255 165 79 tan1 238 154 73 tan2 205 133 63 tan3 139 90 43 tan4 255 127 36 chocolate1 238 118 33 chocolate2 205 102 29 chocolate3 139 69 19 chocolate4 255 48 48 firebrick1 238 44 44 firebrick2 205 38 38 firebrick3 139 26 26 firebrick4 255 64 64 brown1 238 59 59 brown2 205 51 51 brown3 139 35 35 brown4 255 140 105 salmon1 238 130 98 salmon2 205 112 84 salmon3 139 76 57 salmon4 255 160 122 LightSalmon1 238 149 114 LightSalmon2 205 129 98 LightSalmon3 139 87 66 LightSalmon4 255 165 0 orange1 238 154 0 orange2 205 133 0 orange3 139 90 0 orange4 255 127 0 DarkOrange1 238 118 0 DarkOrange2 205 102 0 DarkOrange3 139 69 0 DarkOrange4 255 114 86 coral1 238 106 80 coral2 205 91 69 coral3 139 62 47 coral4 255 99 71 tomato1 238 92 66 tomato2 205 79 57 tomato3 139 54 38 tomato4 255 69 0 OrangeRed1 238 64 0 OrangeRed2 205 55 0 OrangeRed3 139 37 0 OrangeRed4 255 0 0 red1 238 0 0 red2 205 0 0 red3 139 0 0 red4 255 20 147 DeepPink1 238 18 137 DeepPink2 205 16 118 DeepPink3 139 10 80 DeepPink4 255 110 180 HotPink1 238 106 167 HotPink2 205 96 144 HotPink3 139 58 98 HotPink4 255 181 197 pink1 238 169 184 pink2 205 145 158 pink3 139 99 108 pink4 255 174 185 LightPink1 238 162 173 LightPink2 205 140 149 LightPink3 139 95 101 LightPink4 255 130 171 PaleVioletRed1 238 121 159 PaleVioletRed2 205 104 137 PaleVioletRed3 139 71 93 PaleVioletRed4 255 52 179 maroon1 238 48 167 maroon2 205 41 144 maroon3 139 28 98 maroon4 255 62 150 VioletRed1 238 58 140 VioletRed2 205 50 120 VioletRed3 139 34 82 VioletRed4 255 0 255 magenta1 238 0 238 magenta2 205 0 205 magenta3 139 0 139 magenta4 255 131 250 orchid1 238 122 233 orchid2 205 105 201 orchid3 139 71 137 orchid4 255 187 255 plum1 238 174 238 plum2 205 150 205 plum3 139 102 139 plum4 224 102 255 MediumOrchid1 209 95 238 MediumOrchid2 180 82 205 MediumOrchid3 122 55 139 MediumOrchid4 191 62 255 DarkOrchid1 178 58 238 DarkOrchid2 154 50 205 DarkOrchid3 104 34 139 DarkOrchid4 155 48 255 purple1 145 44 238 purple2 125 38 205 purple3 85 26 139 purple4 171 130 255 MediumPurple1 159 121 238 MediumPurple2 137 104 205 MediumPurple3 93 71 139 MediumPurple4 255 225 255 thistle1 238 210 238 thistle2 205 181 205 thistle3 139 123 139 thistle4 0 0 0 gray0 0 0 0 grey0 3 3 3 gray1 3 3 3 grey1 5 5 5 gray2 5 5 5 grey2 8 8 8 gray3 8 8 8 grey3 10 10 10 gray4 10 10 10 grey4 13 13 13 gray5 13 13 13 grey5 15 15 15 gray6 15 15 15 grey6 18 18 18 gray7 18 18 18 grey7 20 20 20 gray8 20 20 20 grey8 23 23 23 gray9 23 23 23 grey9 26 26 26 gray10 26 26 26 grey10 28 28 28 gray11 28 28 28 grey11 31 31 31 gray12 31 31 31 grey12 33 33 33 gray13 33 33 33 grey13 36 36 36 gray14 36 36 36 grey14 38 38 38 gray15 38 38 38 grey15 41 41 41 gray16 41 41 41 grey16 43 43 43 gray17 43 43 43 grey17 46 46 46 gray18 46 46 46 grey18 48 48 48 gray19 48 48 48 grey19 51 51 51 gray20 51 51 51 grey20 54 54 54 gray21 54 54 54 grey21 56 56 56 gray22 56 56 56 grey22 59 59 59 gray23 59 59 59 grey23 61 61 61 gray24 61 61 61 grey24 64 64 64 gray25 64 64 64 grey25 66 66 66 gray26 66 66 66 grey26 69 69 69 gray27 69 69 69 grey27 71 71 71 gray28 71 71 71 grey28 74 74 74 gray29 74 74 74 grey29 77 77 77 gray30 77 77 77 grey30 79 79 79 gray31 79 79 79 grey31 82 82 82 gray32 82 82 82 grey32 84 84 84 gray33 84 84 84 grey33 87 87 87 gray34 87 87 87 grey34 89 89 89 gray35 89 89 89 grey35 92 92 92 gray36 92 92 92 grey36 94 94 94 gray37 94 94 94 grey37 97 97 97 gray38 97 97 97 grey38 99 99 99 gray39 99 99 99 grey39 102 102 102 gray40 102 102 102 grey40 105 105 105 gray41 105 105 105 grey41 107 107 107 gray42 107 107 107 grey42 110 110 110 gray43 110 110 110 grey43 112 112 112 gray44 112 112 112 grey44 115 115 115 gray45 115 115 115 grey45 117 117 117 gray46 117 117 117 grey46 120 120 120 gray47 120 120 120 grey47 122 122 122 gray48 122 122 122 grey48 125 125 125 gray49 125 125 125 grey49 127 127 127 gray50 127 127 127 grey50 130 130 130 gray51 130 130 130 grey51 133 133 133 gray52 133 133 133 grey52 135 135 135 gray53 135 135 135 grey53 138 138 138 gray54 138 138 138 grey54 140 140 140 gray55 140 140 140 grey55 143 143 143 gray56 143 143 143 grey56 145 145 145 gray57 145 145 145 grey57 148 148 148 gray58 148 148 148 grey58 150 150 150 gray59 150 150 150 grey59 153 153 153 gray60 153 153 153 grey60 156 156 156 gray61 156 156 156 grey61 158 158 158 gray62 158 158 158 grey62 161 161 161 gray63 161 161 161 grey63 163 163 163 gray64 163 163 163 grey64 166 166 166 gray65 166 166 166 grey65 168 168 168 gray66 168 168 168 grey66 171 171 171 gray67 171 171 171 grey67 173 173 173 gray68 173 173 173 grey68 176 176 176 gray69 176 176 176 grey69 179 179 179 gray70 179 179 179 grey70 181 181 181 gray71 181 181 181 grey71 184 184 184 gray72 184 184 184 grey72 186 186 186 gray73 186 186 186 grey73 189 189 189 gray74 189 189 189 grey74 191 191 191 gray75 191 191 191 grey75 194 194 194 gray76 194 194 194 grey76 196 196 196 gray77 196 196 196 grey77 199 199 199 gray78 199 199 199 grey78 201 201 201 gray79 201 201 201 grey79 204 204 204 gray80 204 204 204 grey80 207 207 207 gray81 207 207 207 grey81 209 209 209 gray82 209 209 209 grey82 212 212 212 gray83 212 212 212 grey83 214 214 214 gray84 214 214 214 grey84 217 217 217 gray85 217 217 217 grey85 219 219 219 gray86 219 219 219 grey86 222 222 222 gray87 222 222 222 grey87 224 224 224 gray88 224 224 224 grey88 227 227 227 gray89 227 227 227 grey89 229 229 229 gray90 229 229 229 grey90 232 232 232 gray91 232 232 232 grey91 235 235 235 gray92 235 235 235 grey92 237 237 237 gray93 237 237 237 grey93 240 240 240 gray94 240 240 240 grey94 242 242 242 gray95 242 242 242 grey95 245 245 245 gray96 245 245 245 grey96 247 247 247 gray97 247 247 247 grey97 250 250 250 gray98 250 250 250 grey98 252 252 252 gray99 252 252 252 grey99 255 255 255 gray100 255 255 255 grey100 169 169 169 dark grey 169 169 169 DarkGrey 169 169 169 dark gray 169 169 169 DarkGray 0 0 139 dark blue 0 0 139 DarkBlue 0 139 139 dark cyan 0 139 139 DarkCyan 139 0 139 dark magenta 139 0 139 DarkMagenta 139 0 0 dark red 139 0 0 DarkRed 144 238 144 light green 144 238 144 LightGreen ! Silicon Graphics special colors: ! These colors exist for backward compatibility with previous releases; we do ! not recommend you use these colors because they are unlikely to exist on ! non-SGI X servers. 0 0 0 sgi gray 0 0 0 0 SGIGray0 0 0 0 sgi grey 0 0 0 0 SGIGrey0 10 10 10 sgi gray 4 10 10 10 SGIGray4 10 10 10 sgi grey 4 10 10 10 SGIGrey4 20 20 20 sgi gray 8 20 20 20 SGIGray8 20 20 20 sgi grey 8 20 20 20 SGIGrey8 30 30 30 sgi gray 12 30 30 30 SGIGray12 30 30 30 sgi grey 12 30 30 30 SGIGrey12 40 40 40 sgi gray 16 40 40 40 SGIGray16 40 40 40 sgi grey 16 40 40 40 SGIGrey16 51 51 51 sgi gray 20 51 51 51 SGIGray20 51 51 51 sgi grey 20 51 51 51 SGIGrey20 61 61 61 sgi gray 24 61 61 61 SGIGray24 61 61 61 sgi grey 24 61 61 61 SGIGrey24 71 71 71 sgi gray 28 71 71 71 SGIGray28 71 71 71 sgi grey 28 71 71 71 SGIGrey28 81 81 81 sgi gray 32 81 81 81 SGIGray32 81 81 81 sgi grey 32 81 81 81 SGIGrey32 91 91 91 sgi gray 36 91 91 91 SGIGray36 91 91 91 sgi grey 36 91 91 91 SGIGrey36 102 102 102 sgi gray 40 102 102 102 SGIGray40 102 102 102 sgi grey 40 102 102 102 SGIGrey40 112 112 112 sgi gray 44 112 112 112 SGIGray44 112 112 112 sgi grey 44 112 112 112 SGIGrey44 122 122 122 sgi gray 48 122 122 122 SGIGray48 122 122 122 sgi grey 48 122 122 122 SGIGrey48 132 132 132 sgi gray 52 132 132 132 SGIGray52 132 132 132 sgi grey 52 132 132 132 SGIGrey52 142 142 142 sgi gray 56 142 142 142 SGIGray56 142 142 142 sgi grey 56 142 142 142 SGIGrey56 153 153 153 sgi gray 60 153 153 153 SGIGray60 153 153 153 sgi grey 60 153 153 153 SGIGrey60 163 163 163 sgi gray 64 163 163 163 SGIGray64 163 163 163 sgi grey 64 163 163 163 SGIGrey64 173 173 173 sgi gray 68 173 173 173 SGIGray68 173 173 173 sgi grey 68 173 173 173 SGIGrey68 183 183 183 sgi gray 72 183 183 183 SGIGray72 183 183 183 sgi grey 72 183 183 183 SGIGrey72 193 193 193 sgi gray 76 193 193 193 SGIGray76 193 193 193 sgi grey 76 193 193 193 SGIGrey76 204 204 204 sgi gray 80 204 204 204 SGIGray80 204 204 204 sgi grey 80 204 204 204 SGIGrey80 214 214 214 sgi gray 84 214 214 214 SGIGray84 214 214 214 sgi grey 84 214 214 214 SGIGrey84 224 224 224 sgi gray 88 224 224 224 SGIGray88 224 224 224 sgi grey 88 224 224 224 SGIGrey88 234 234 234 sgi gray 92 234 234 234 SGIGray92 234 234 234 sgi grey 92 234 234 234 SGIGrey92 244 244 244 sgi gray 96 244 244 244 SGIGray96 244 244 244 sgi grey 96 244 244 244 SGIGrey96 255 255 255 sgi gray 100 255 255 255 SGIGray100 255 255 255 sgi grey 100 255 255 255 SGIGrey100 125 158 192 sgi light blue 125 158 192 SGILightBlue 85 85 85 sgi dark gray 85 85 85 SGIDarkGray 85 85 85 sgi dark grey 85 85 85 SGIDarkGrey 198 113 113 sgi salmon 198 113 113 SGISalmon 113 198 113 sgi chartreuse 113 198 113 SGIChartreuse 142 142 56 sgi olive drab 142 142 56 SGIOliveDrab 113 113 198 sgi slate blue 113 113 198 SGISlateBlue 142 56 142 sgi beet 142 56 142 SGIBeet 56 142 142 sgi teal 56 142 142 SGITeal 170 170 170 sgi light gray 170 170 170 SGILightGray 170 170 170 sgi light grey 170 170 170 SGILightGrey 214 214 214 sgi very light gray 214 214 214 SGIVeryLightGray 214 214 214 sgi very light grey 214 214 214 SGIVeryLightGrey 132 132 132 sgi medium gray 132 132 132 SGIMediumGray 132 132 132 sgi medium grey 132 132 132 SGIMediumGrey 40 40 40 sgi very dark gray 40 40 40 SGIVeryDarkGray 40 40 40 sgi very dark grey 40 40 40 SGIVeryDarkGrey 197 193 170 sgi bright gray 197 193 170 SGIBrightGray 197 193 170 sgi bright grey 197 193 170 SGIBrightGrey 75 0 130 Indigo 33 136 104 Indigo2 220 20 60 Crimson ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Date: 14 Oct 1997 14:23:18 -0500 ...sllooowwly the fog lifts... Drats! More fog. Merle L. Newsted Jr. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Synchronous orbits Date: 14 Oct 1997 12:36:16 -0700 In article , Evin C Robertson writes: > I just have to ask: What's all this talk about synchronous orbits with > fractals? Did an altavista search and came up with nothing > related to the topic. Rollo Silver (rollo@artvark.com) http://www.artvark.com/artvark/ published an article about this in his news letter, Amigdala, a few years ago. I don't recall the author, it might even have been Rollo. If I recall correctly, choose a rectangle in your image. Iterate four orbits corresponding the corners of the rectangle. The iterations are followed until their orbits become distorted from a rectangle. Then the rectangle orbit pattern is subdivided and the orbits of each part is followed additionally. The orbits are in z space, defined by a rectangular (or square) cell in the c-space. z := z^2 + c; z initially =0. Repeat subdividing and iterating until the orbits get to your maximum iteration limit, a corner escapes ( |z|>2, where you will subdivide and work on the non-escaping parts ) or your subdivision gets to the single pixel level. Display the result for the four pixels (or fill in the rectangle, if it is more than pixel sized). Back out to the upper level (of subdividing) and process the remaining parts at that level. Repeat until all parts of the top level are finished. Using recursive programming, the cells can be evaluated for the whole image, starting with the complete or some sub-division of the original image. Very deep zooms are evaluated quicker because early on, all the orbits in the cell are very nearly linear with c and can be represented by the evaluation of the corner values. Detailed calculations are performed only on portions having unique patterns. The distortion is identified when the rectangle looses its shape (corners not right angles, sides not in correct ratio). Rotation and expansion of the rectangle is allowed. In April I wrote about this in sci.fractals: >I think we can allow distortion into a parallelogram, but not >too smashed (which losses information). The degree of >non-parallelism of the sides & relative lengths of the diagonals >would be measures of deterioration. Jay -- http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3825/ main(){int f,g,h=0;float a,b,c,d,e;for(;h<3920;putchar("^/-,;<:lnb/bh`\ r/ylqbAmmhI/S/x`K\013"[++h>3840&&g<25?31-g:g>79?31:f]^1))if(!(f=(8*(c=( d=(g=1+h%80)/31.-2)*d+(e=.047*(h/80-24))*e)-3)*c+d<3/32.?24:16*(1+2*d+c )<1?30:0))for(a=d,b=c=0;(b=2*b*c+e)*b+(c=a)*a<=4&&++f<26;a=d-b*b+c*c);} Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 15:47:42 -0400 Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: > I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some > questions. > 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only > 256, assuming red=1, grn=1, blu=1 would be the same as red=120, grn=120, > blu=120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) These numbers refer to the intensity of the color, for example: R-0 G-0 B-0 would be black R-1 G-1 B-1 would be very dark gray R-120 G-120 B-120 would be medium gray R-255 G-0 B-0 would be bright red R-112 G-44 B-68 would be a shade of violet 256x256x256 gives you 16,777,216 possible colors. (This is also called 24-bit color since it can also be expressed as 2 to the power of 24). However, if you look inside a fractint .MAP file you will notice that all the numbers are multiples of 4 (0 through 252). This gives you a maximum of only 262,144 colors (64x64x64). I think this is because the original VGA spec could only handle this many colors. Perhaps Tim could elaborate on this. I don't know what fractint does if it finds a number not divisible by 4 - it probably rounds it. > 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective colors? I'm not sure what you're asking for. You don't mean a list of 16,000,000 colors similar to the following do you? R-0 G-0 B-0 Black R-1 G-0 B-0 Very, very, very, very dark red R-1 G-1 B-0 Very, very, very, very dark olive green Let me know what platform you are using. There are simple programs that let you type in the 3 numbers and then show the color. Hope this helps. Nick nick.grasso@hrads.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leif Biberg Kristensen Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 22:00:27 +0200 At 14:43 14.10.97 -0400, you wrote: > >Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: >>=20 >> I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some >> questions. >> 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only >> 256, assuming red=3D1, grn=3D1, blu=3D1 would be the same as red=3D120,= grn=3D120, >> blu=3D120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) >>=20 > You should interpret these as intensities. You're mapping the=20 >truecolor, 16.7 million palette (256 cubed, not factorial) to a 256 color= =20 >palette. 0,0,0, is pure black; 1,1,1, is a very dark grey; 255,255,255 is= =20 >white.=20 Actually the VGA color register is only 3x6 bits wide, thus allowing for 256K (or 262144) different colors. This means that although you can specify any RGB value in a range from 0 to 255, only the values which are multiplies of 8 are meaningful. For instance: An RGB triplet in a Fractint .map file written as 26 31 24 will be read as 24 24 24. BTW this is why the "pseudo-grey" maps of Fractint display shades of red, green and blue alternately. -- Leif B. Kristensen Nils Kirkeruds vei 8 B leifbk@online.no N-1313 V=D8YENENGA, NORWAY + 47 67 13 22 64 Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 14 Oct 1997 16:17:01 -0400 Hi Ramiro, >> Here is an example of a small utility (20k zipped) that I write for >> fractint 19.6, for inverting the ifs attractors defined in the >> fractint ifs files, and rewritting it for fractint formula types and >> for fractint par files. Thanks! Here are some pars created with the ifs from the Fractint package. CRYSTLJ { ; . t=3D 0:07:38= =2E57 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dcrystal_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D-4.46741/7.4332/0.212585/1/-75 params=3D10000/0/-0.174/5.024 float=3Dy decomp=3D256 colors=3D_`d<51>wwzwwzvvy<123>F00038<75>_`d cyclerange=3D0/255 } DRAGONJ { ; . t=3D 0:10:31= =2E42 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Ddragon_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D0.367001/4.53573/0.1292047/1.0973 params=3D10000/0/0.419/4= float=3Dy inside=3D0 decomp=3D256 colors=3DL0G<4>M0LN0NN0N<2>P0PQ0QR2P<19>zp0yn0wm0<9>kX0iW0hU0fS0eR0<3>`= L0Z\ J0YH0XF0VE0UC0TA0<30>F22F22F22F22F22<46>577577677<29>kR7mS6nU6<6>uj1wm0= w\ n3<7>yvXyw`yxdzzhzyfzwc<13>s`3rZ0qX0<13>i30h00g00<11>M00K00K01K03K04K06= <\ 9>L0F cyclerange=3D0/255 } FERNJ1 { ; . t=3D 0:21:36= =2E09 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dfer= n_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D-0.0871612/6.21743/0.2090168/2.26/-33.558/-0.84= 9 params=3D10000/0/0/7 float=3Dy inside=3D0 decomp=3D256 colors=3DrZ0<11>cL0aJ0`J0<13>ID2GC3GC3<13>7CG6DH6DH6DI<17>BJUCKUCKVDLVD= LW<\ 4>MSaNTbPVdRXe<5>aemcgocgo<13>pppqqqppq<51>22C11B00A00A11B22C<41>ffiggj= i\ ik<14>wwwxxxxwv<11>yqUypSyoQynNymLzlI<2>ykFyjEyiDyhCxhBxgAxf8xf8<3>wc4v= c\ 3vb2ua0t`0s_0 cyclerange=3D0/255 } FERNJ2 { ; . t=3D 0:18:43= =2E49 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dfer= n_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D0.265398/5.17793/0.1841772/1.219/-3.304/-3.084 params=3D10000/0/0/8 float=3Dy inside=3D0 decomp=3D256 colors=3Dfmb<12>psipsiqsjqtjrtk<11>yyqyyqyyp<11>yxhyxgywfyweyvdyvd<12>x= sVw\ rUwrUvqU<56>UMCTMCTLBTLB<27>652542432321321<76>QbQQbQRcRScS<18>ela cyclerange=3D0/255 } SPIRAL { ; . t=3D 0:21:53= =2E49 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dspiral_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D0/5/0.1666667 params=3D100000/0/0/5 float=3Dy maxiter=3D1000 inside=3D0 colors=3DzQ5<5>zE6<5>dH8`I9ZH9<3>SE7QD6QD6<18>fJMgJNhLP<4>nYZp_`qbbseet= jh<\ 2>zzsxvmurgurg<4>xnI<2>bmTVmXNm_Flc8lg0kk<11>FhOGhMHhKJgHKgFMfC<13>`L9a= J\ 9cK9eLAhMB<3>mTHnVJpYH<2>vdByg8yh5yi3<28>XL1VK0UK2<14>0Qc<6>8bcAdcDedHg= e\ <7>iqz<4>zyt<7>ylDxj2wiK<3>vc4ua0ub3<3>vhJviNvjPwkR<4>xriytmyto<2>zwu<1= 3\ >wCM<15>ye3<6>zS5 cyclerange=3D0/255 } SWIRL5J { ; . t=3D 0:23:44= =2E66 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dswirl5_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D0/5/0.1666667 params=3D100000/0/-0.1/4.927 float=3Dy maxiter=3D1000 inside=3D0 colors=3DJbQ<3>KfNLhMOiL<11>wt1<12>DVF<14>AB54C5<8>hMB<4>nVJ<3>vdByg8yh= 5yi\ 3<3>ylEymHymI<2>yoPypSyqVyqYyr`<8>zzz<6>SE7<3>LA5<3>000000<12>b0Ee0Ff5I= <\ 9>xtozzszzs<54>zqU<14>6hz<6>9yz<11>yXa<5>wCM<2>gBGbADWAB<2>884<15>IYPJ_= R\ J`RJaQ cyclerange=3D0/255 } TRIANGJ { ; . t=3D 0:07:27= =2E76 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dtriangle_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D0.522659/1.48188/7.660208/0.8423/-44.353/-1.353 params=3D10000/0/1/1 float=3Dy maxiter=3D100 inside=3D0 outside=3Dsumm invert=3D0.1/0.7/1.3 colors=3DyqV<10>zzz<6>SE7<3>LA5<3>000000<12>b0Ee0Ff5I<9>xtozzszzs<54>zq= U<1\ 4>6hz<6>9yz<11>yXa<5>wCM<2>gBGbADWAB<2>884<15>IYPJ_RJ`R<6>LhM<12>wt1<12= >\ DVF<14>AB54C5<8>hMB<4>nVJ<3>vdByg8yh5yi3<3>ylEymHymI<3>ypS cyclerange=3D0/255 } ZIGZAGJ { ; . t=3D 0:11:41= =2E41 ; Copyright Sylvie Gallet, Oct 11, 1997 ; ; t=3Dcalc time using a Pentium 166 at 1600 x 1200 reset=3D1960 type=3Dformula formulafile=3Difs2frm.frm formulaname=3Dzigzag2_j passes=3D1 center-mag=3D1.08048/3.51532/0.08266667/-1/212.5 params=3D100000/0/1/1 float=3Dy maxiter=3D100 inside=3D0 decomp=3D256 colors=3D_21Z00<6>M00K00K01<8>L0BL0CL0C<12>P0PQ0QR2P<6>cKGdMFfOEgRDiTC<= 8>x\ n0<14>gT0eR0dP0bN0aM0<5>UC0TA0TA0<29>F22F22F22F22F22<46>577577677<29>kR= 7\ mS6nU6oW5pZ5<14>spUtrWtqV<13>p`5oZ3oY3<21>`31 cyclerange=3D0/255 } Cheers, - Sylvie Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Evin C Robertson Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 17:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Excerpts from mail: 14-Oct-97 Re: (fractint) Color Maps by Leif B. Kristensen@onlin > Actually the VGA color register is only 3x6 bits wide, thus allowing for > 256K (or 262144) different colors. This means that although you can specify > any RGB value in a range from 0 to 255, only the values which are > multiplies of 8 are meaningful. For instance: An RGB triplet in a Fractint > .map file written as 26 31 24 will be read as 24 24 24. BTW this is why > the "pseudo-grey" maps of Fractint display shades of red, green and blue > alternately. Actually, values in multiples of 4 are meaningful. 26 31 24 would be sent to the VGA as 6 7 6, which is equivalent to giving Fractint 24 28 24. Fractint (and any other program which translates 24-bit color to 18 bit color) divides each color by 4, removing the two least significant bits. The VGA palette registers themselves don't do this; they look at the bottom 6 bits of the 8 bits sent to their port. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |7|6|5|4|3|2|1|0| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Bits 0 and 1 need to be chopped off before sending it to the VGA. Of course, when truecolor is done well, this chopping won't be necessary. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 15:14:21 -0600 I thought this 6bit hack thing was for old VGA cards, not the newer SVGA cards where you have a palette of 256 out of 2^24 colors. True or false? -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leif Biberg Kristensen Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 23:45:20 +0200 >Actually, values in multiples of 4 are meaningful. 26 31 24 would be >sent to the VGA as 6 7 6, which is equivalent to giving Fractint 24 28 >24. Fractint (and any other program which translates 24-bit color to 18 >bit color) divides each color by 4, removing the two least significant >bits. The VGA palette registers themselves don't do this; they look at >the bottom 6 bits of the 8 bits sent to their port. Of course, you're right ... got a little mixed-up in the powers of 2. %-} <-me, cross-eyed & with a red face -- Leif B. Kristensen Nils Kirkeruds vei 8 B leifbk@online.no N-1313 V=D8YENENGA, NORWAY + 47 67 13 22 64 Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: henry birdseye Subject: Re: (fractint) FRACTAL ANIMATIONS Date: 14 Oct 1997 17:50:23 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Cynthia Peterson wrote: > We are looking for programs that create FRACTAL ANIMATIONS. The search is > actually to identify companies to approach for a teaming effort to > integrate fractal animation capabilities into an existing VB/C++ program. I make Fractint animations regularly using a program called FAE (Fractal Animation Explorer). Archie for FAE210B.exe and you'll probably find it. If not I can mail it to you. The basic deal is, you give a start point and an end point and it generates a long .par file, and a .bat file that makes the pix. I have made many minutes of this stuff with FAE and love the program. It also works to animate Julia values and palettes. Please keep me abreast of your progress. ----------------- Henry S. Birdseye Video Compositing Artist, Fractal Zoomer, Raytracer, Film Collector, Techno Head, .net addict www.mich.com/~ozymand www.prodcolor.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 14 Oct 1997 23:06:49 +0200 (EET) On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Brock Kevin Nambo wrote: > > I don't think I would recommend the Javaversion of Fractint, especially > since uh,.. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, Java didn't > enjoy the writing of files... This is only true for applets, not for applications. > > The Java docs were confusing to me; when you say "stand-alone applications" > do you mean like a self-contained program, that doesn't need the java > runtime? (or whatever that word is...) AFAIK the applications still need a virtual machine to be running in, but that virtual machine need not be a browser. > Java is a programming language, which, which is not supported by any > computer. The reasoning behind this (kinda fuzzy, yes) is that since it's > not native to any computer, they can get any computer to run it, via an > emulator called the Java "Virtual Machine." This is a similar concept to a > language I'm trying to learn (Inform) except Java is much more > graphic-oriented by virtue of being much younger. Java makes two kinds of > programs: applets, which are designed to be used with HTML and web browsers; > and applications, which run from a Java interpreter compatible withyour > system. The origianl poster suggested using native functions. This simply means that if you want something to run fast in Java, you can call another library that's written in C or C++ or anything else. But then you lose the portability which was the reason for choosing Java in the first place, and Fractint is already compiled to run as a native app. I don't see any gain from using Java. As far as Fractint 50 is concerned - who says that Java will still be "in" by then? :) Uri Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: Synchronous orbits Date: 14 Oct 1997 15:02:05 -0700 I wrote earlier today: >Rollo Silver (rollo@artvark.com) > http://www.artvark.com/artvark/ >published an article about this in his news letter, >Amigdala, a few years ago. I don't recall the >author, it might even have been Rollo. Make that Amygdala and it was Steven Stoft's article. This according to Robert P. Munafo. I could look up my copy of the article, but that would involve looking though files in the REAL 3D WORLD. >8^O Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leif Biberg Kristensen Subject: Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 00:09:21 +0200 At 15:14 14.10.97 -0600, you wrote: > >I thought this 6bit hack thing was for old VGA cards, not the newer >SVGA cards where you have a palette of 256 out of 2^24 colors. True >or false? This is, of course, a question of hardware versus software. You're right about the new SVGA cards, they have 'true-color' modes which allow for 24-bit color maps. And they'll put more than 256 colors on the screen simultaneously, too. You'll find some of these modes in Fractint. What you'll se, hovewer, when you try one of the >256 color modes, is an all-blue image. That is because the true-color modes in Fractint, as I understand it, are not fully implemented. It looks as only the first 256 colors of the mega-palette are displayed on the screen. (Here, I hope for a more technical explanation from one of the Fractint developers.) In the 256-color modes, the SVGA cards are still, and I think will be for the foreseeable future, downward compatible with the ancient standard VGA color maps, limited to 3x6 bits. This has something to do with low-level calls in older code, I guess. -- Leif B. Kristensen Nils Kirkeruds vei 8 B leifbk@online.no N-1313 V=D8YENENGA, NORWAY + 47 67 13 22 64 Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GEDEON PETERI Subject: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 14 Oct 1997 18:23:44 -0400 --------------2E9C791EDA7B6433B8394649 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Merle L Newsted Jr wrote: > > > > I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some > > questions. > There are a couple of utilities I found very useful in making Fractint color maps. One is called "Makemap" and is included in the Fracxtr6 package available at Spanky's. http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html There is also "Mapmaker" with more features, including the very useful ability to save maps as csv files which can then be viewed, graphed, and manipulated in Excel. Mapmaker is available from its author, Jack Orman at http://members.aol.com/jorman/fract.html Gedeon Peteri. --------------2E9C791EDA7B6433B8394649 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Merle L Newsted Jr wrote:
> 
> I've just started trying to write my own .map files. And I have some
> questions.
  There are a couple of utilities I found very useful in making Fractint color maps. One is called "Makemap" and is included in the Fracxtr6 package available at Spanky's. http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html
    There is also "Mapmaker" with more features, including the very useful ability to save maps as csv files which can then be viewed, graphed, and manipulated in Excel.  Mapmaker is available from its author, Jack Orman at http://members.aol.com/jorman/fract.html
    Gedeon Peteri.
  --------------2E9C791EDA7B6433B8394649-- Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 14 Oct 1997 20:13:41 -0400 Why not Java? I sure hope this wasn't a serious question. :) Two reasons. (1) Most of FractInt's code is C already. When I suggested a while back to folks who actually work on FractInt that porting it to C++ might not be a bad idea, it was pointed out to me in a hurry how big a task that would be. Moving FractInt to Java would be much, much more work. (2) Speed. Java is Slow As Mud. Sure, if you get a really fast computer, Java runs OK for a lot of stuff. But fractals are not like a lot of stuff; they actually require gobs of performance and generally benefit from optimized assembly code. Sure, we may have computers fast enough to run a Java fractal generator at a tolerable speed... and an assembly-optimized fractal generator will run rings around it on the same computer. - Then again, there is the JIT (Just-in-Time) compiler, but I don't know - if it has any relevancy to applications. Sure it does, it's just not enough. Even compiler-optimized C or C++ code isn't fast enough, for some things. - I'm sure you guys will be able to figure it all out by the 50th release ;). I'd wager by the 50th release, Java will be one of those long-forgotten languages. :) Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Integer v. float Date: 14 Oct 1997 20:10:05 -0400 Mrvn, - On an MC68060 its 2 cycles for a 32 Bit int multiply (and the cpu can - put that into a pipeline and do other stuff inbetween) and more for - fpu. I think even with 64 Bit ints its faster than fpu. This is also - true for other cpu's. Oh sure, you're absolutely right here. No argument. However, the differences are becoming much smaller. My feeling is it's only the assembly code (the x86 assembly code) where the differences, to one side or the other, will be major. Somehow I don't see a compiler effectively optimizing the integer math. - I vote against removeing the int code, but for porting it to 32 bit and 64 - bit. If it were just a matter of adapting some C code, this wouldn't be the issue. The problem is, all that wondrous integer math code is in *assembly*. - you can do x^2 and y^2 at the same time with mmx. Only with 16-bit math. Virtually useless for the few zooms you get out of it, not worth the effort of writing it, to me. - You can also emulate a 32/64 Bit multiply with a few four 16x16 multiply - cycles. ...versus two-cycle back-to-back 64x64 multiplies on the FPU... - I think it won't be much slower and you also have more registers to store - the numbers and don't need to write to memory. You don't have more registers with MMX (you have the same eight registers as you do with the FPU) and with the FPU you don't need to write to memory, either. JuliaSaver's core Mandelbrot/Julia calculation routine runs entirely out of FPU registers. - [re: IMUL not pairable on Pentium] - Thats a intel problem and other cpu's should also be considered. Sure that's an Intel problem. Most use of FractInt is on x86 processors, and that's what the assembly is written for. Most x86 processors in use are Intel, thus it makes sense to optimize for Intel flavors of x86 first. Fortunately, optimizing for Intel flavors generally speeds things up on other x86 processors as well, as they use similar (but not identical) techniques to speed up execution of x86 instructions. - Why not use a library that does this? There are libraries for n Bit - interger operations out there which can be utilised. Effectively killing your speed. The problem here is not arbitrary precision--that's already handled pretty well. The problem is the 32-bit integer code that is in assembly, and the only reason it's fast is because it's all directly inlined and explicit. Trying to use some library would make the performance worse than C code that uses the FPU! Unless you're hand-optimizing with assembly code, the differences between integer code and FPU code are unlikely to be significant enough to warrant keeping the code in there. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 14 Oct 1997 20:10:41 -0400 Mrvn, - If the aim is to have fractint running on any computer then C is the - way to go and C is fast enough. Also it's easy to have inline asm for - various cpu's. I'd be thrilled to see a Mac port of FractInt--over on another mailing list (MetaCreations' KPT List) there has been quite a discussion about fractal software for Macs, and several people have advocated *buying* a software PC emulator just to run FractInt! There is interest. Too bad I don't know PPC assembly. (And too bad my 68K knowledge is virtually useless now.) - With todays compilers for C its also hardly neccessary to write inline - asm for more then the bare core of the formula (if even). Yep, only simple fractal types will really benefit from hand-optimizing, like the M-set. - On a PPC for example the iner loop of a Mandelbrod Fractal can be written - in 6 asm lines Six?!? Wow! I'd like to see that (along with an explanation since I'm not PPC fluent). Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: (fractint) Colors! Date: 14 Oct 1997 19:57:57 -0500 Thanks to everybody who responded with information about color maps. Now I think I promised another ABSOLUTELY FREE M.L.Newsted Jr. Fractal! Well, here it is! Sunglasses (xaxis) { ; Merle L. Newsted Jr. z = 0, a = pixel, b = pixel + 1, c = pixel * 2: z = a*z*z + b*z + c ;What? No bailout test!!! } Anybody recognize the mutated formula? Dis ids veddy veddy sceddy... "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 00:04:10 -0500 Damien M. Jones wrote: > Why not Java? I sure hope this wasn't a serious question. :) Oy vey! What a can of worms I opened up with this one. I never expected so many passionate responses about exactly why Java won't work. My original post was based of two (probably totally off-base) assumptions: 1: C is a dying language, as Sun would have you believe (despite the claim in the book Not Just Java, which is published by - who else? - Sun Microsystems, that "this book contains my own views and conclusions" and is not an official statement of policy by Sun). 2: Java is poised to become the general-purpose programming language of the future (see 1). I also expected that when Java became a regular programming language, there would be optimizing compilers and all the other stuff that now comes with C++ development tools. Hence the release 50 deadline... :| Perhaps I should have asked the question, "What happens when C goes out of style?" and given my answer, "Move to Java." But then everyone would write in, "C probably won't die, and even if it does, the programmers could keep their C compilers." Anyone care to comment on that one? Or did I get the general feeling of programmers everywherre right? Bye for now, and remember, "Assume makes a... well... ARSE (can I say that here? and if I can't, please forgive me this once, as that's how I'm feeling now :( ) out of you and me." "I only use Windows because: 1. Solaris isn't available for a PC :( 2. I can't afford a Sun and I'd have to buy a server AND a workstation (I think) :( :*( :^( 3. When's the last time YOU saw an X-Windows app in your local software store?! ;)" -Me Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Snyder Subject: Re: (fractint) FRACTAL ANIMATIONS Date: 15 Oct 1997 00:08:41 -0600 At 17:50 14-10-97 -0400, you wrote: >I make Fractint animations regularly using a program called FAE (Fractal >Animation Explorer). Archie for FAE210B.exe and you'll probably find it. > Boy, I couldn't find it. Would you mind posting the appropriate URL? Thanks. Everywhere is within running distance....if you have the time. Scott Snyder -- sdsnyder@pcisys.net -- Littleton, CO Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Otterstaetter Subject: Re: (fractint) FRACTAL ANIMATIONS Date: 15 Oct 1997 08:54:14 +0000 > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:08:41 -0600 > To: fractint@mail.xmission.com > From: Scott Snyder > Subject: Re: (fractint) FRACTAL ANIMATIONS > Reply-to: fractint@mail.xmission.com > >I make Fractint animations regularly using a program called FAE (Fractal > >Animation Explorer). Archie for FAE210B.exe and you'll probably find it. > > > > Boy, I couldn't find it. Would you mind posting the appropriate URL? > http://spanky.triumf.ca/pub/fractals/programs/IBMPC/FAE210B.ZIP hope this helps! Peter Peter Otterstaetter BASF Aktiengesellschaft Zentralbereich Informatik ZXA/U Anwendungsentwicklung D-67056 Ludwigshafen E-mail: peter.otterstaetter@zxa.basf-ag.de All things come to those who wait. They come, but often come too late. From Lady Mary M. Curie: Tout Vient a Qui Sait Attendre (1890) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: r.hopkins@ic.ac.uk Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 15 Oct 1997 09:45:46 BST 80 doubles are ONLY used inside the intel co-processor. The user has no access to these numbers, only their 64 bit approximations. Hoppy Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wdelange@biochem.nl (Wim de Lange) Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:47:56 GMT Op 14 Oct 97 om 19:57 schreef owner-fractint@xmission.com over: "(fractint) Colors!" > Thanks to everybody who responded with information about color maps. > Now I think I promised another ABSOLUTELY FREE M.L.Newsted Jr. > Fractal! > > Well, here it is! The formula is there, where is the PAR? Groetjes, Wim de Lange _____________________________________ Internet: wdelange@biochem.nl CompuServe: 100142,604 _____________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wdelange@biochem.nl (Wim de Lange) Subject: (Fwd) (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:39:31 GMT questions. 1. How many combinations are possible? I would think that there are only 256, assuming red=1, grn=1, blu=1 would be the same as red=120, grn=120, blu=120. Otherwise there would seem to be a factorial of colors (256!) 256*256*256 is the right answer. And RGB(1,1,1) is almost black, and RGB(120,120,120) is the gray. The numbers are the clarity. 2. Is there a nice list of numbers coordinating with their respective colors? You can make it yourself? There is this easy list. Black =(0,0,0), Grey=(127,127,127), white = (256,256,256) Red=(256,0,0), blue green Yellow = Blue and green, etc. Groetjes, Wim de Lange _____________________________________ Internet: wdelange@biochem.nl CompuServe: 100142,604 _____________________________________ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 08:54:30 -0500 I didn't think you neede a par file. Why not add it to a .frm file? I mean really, it's a M.L.Newsted Jr. Fractal!! It probably deserves its very own private .frm suite ! I'll send a par out when I get home (about 9 hours from now). ///// 0 0 ( ? ) <> > >The formula is there, where is the PAR? > >Groetjes, > Wim de Lange > _____________________________________ > > Internet: wdelange@biochem.nl > CompuServe: 100142,604 > _____________________________________ > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benno Schmid" Subject: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 17:37:01 +100 Evin Robertson wrote: > Excerpts from mail: 14-Oct-97 Re: (fractint) Color Maps by Leif B. > Kristensen@onlin > > Actually the VGA color register is only 3x6 bits wide, thus allowing for > > 256K (or 262144) different colors. This means that although you can specify > > any RGB value in a range from 0 to 255, only the values which are > > multiplies of 8 are meaningful. For instance: An RGB triplet in a Fractint > > .map file written as 26 31 24 will be read as 24 24 24. BTW this is why > > the "pseudo-grey" maps of Fractint display shades of red, green and blue > > alternately. > > Actually, values in multiples of 4 are meaningful. 26 31 24 would be > sent to the VGA as 6 7 6, which is equivalent to giving Fractint 24 28 > 24. Fractint (and any other program which translates 24-bit color to 18 > bit color) divides each color by 4, removing the two least significant > bits. The VGA palette registers themselves don't do this; they look at > the bottom 6 bits of the 8 bits sent to their port. > So only multiplies of 4 would be meaningful to VGA cards and increasing and decreasing by values of one would in most cases do nothing? When I take a palette consisting of single gray (e.g. 31 31 31) and inrease or decrease each value by one, I can always see a difference, even in standard VGA mode, between (31 31 31) and say (31 30 31). How could that happen with cropping, or is it because I have a SVGA card? Benno Schmid Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:17:18 -0500 Benno Schmid wrote: > So only multiplies of 4 would be meaningful to VGA cards and > increasing and decreasing by values of one would in most cases do > nothing? > When I take a palette consisting of single gray (e.g. 31 31 31) and > inrease or decrease each value by one, I can always see a difference, > even in standard VGA mode, between (31 31 31) and say (31 30 31). > How could that happen with cropping, or is it because I have a SVGA > card? > > Benno Schmid > Actually, Fractint's palette editor only lists values from 0 to 63, so when you increase a value in Fractint, it's like increasing the actual RGB component of the color by 4. The translation is automatic, resulting in any increase or decrease in color values in Fractint having meaning to the VGA adapter. So, it has nothing to do with your SVGA card and everything to do wit Fractint's design. Hope this doesn't confuse you TOO much... Justin Kolodziej "I only use Win-doze because: 1. I need more hard drive space (read: a new hard drive) to run Solaris 2. 32 megs (the minimum) probably isn't enough for Solaris 3. 0% of my current apps would run on Solaris (unless there is an MS-DOS emulator available) 4. All of the above costs MONEY (which I don't have)" -Me Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ramiro Perez Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:28:11 +0500 (GMT) On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Sylvie Gallet wrote: > Hi Ramiro, > > >> Here is an example of a small utility (20k zipped) that I write for > >> fractint par files. > > Thanks! Here are some pars created with the ifs from the Fractint > package. Hi Silvie.. Thanks for the pars, they are beautiful!, especially the Fern!. I hope that this little utility helps you to create more fractal artwork like these ones.. By the way, anyone knows on where I can find IFS files?, I search for them (in altavista and spanky!), but I found no one (save the old ones that come in fdesign and vifs). Ramiro Perez rperez@ns.pa Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 09:32:35 -0700 Hi Nuke, I tried your formula with this par file. I get the sunglasses on their side. So I rotate it 90 degrees (see Sunglasses-r below) and the screen goes to blue. In fact Sunglasses goes to blue upon any zoom! What gives? Everyone, please post working par files with your formulae so we can see what your settings are. Thanks, Jay frm:Sunglasses (xaxis) { ; Merle L. Newsted Jr. z = 0, a = pixel, b = pixel + 1, c = pixel * 2: z = a*z*z + b*z + c ;What? No bailout test!!! } Sunglasses { reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=Nuke.par formulaname=Sunglasses center-mag=-0.5/6e-008/0.6666667 params=0/0 } Sunglasses-r { ; rotate 90 degrees reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nuke.par formulaname=sunglasses center-mag=-0.5/6e-008/0.6666667/1/-90 } Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:43:58 -0400 Justin, - Oy vey! What a can of worms I opened up with this one. I never expected - so many passionate responses about exactly why Java won't work. That's okay, you wouldn't have known unless you asked. - My original post was based of two (probably totally off-base) assumptions: - - 1: C is a dying language, as Sun would have you believe Yeah, well, Sun has a vested interest in the C falling by the wayside, so that Java can reign supreme. This makes their view of C a little iffy. But there's a *lot* of C code, and C is very much part of UNIX; this and a lot of other factors will keep C alive for a long, long time. (Crud, even COBOL programmers are in high demand these days... for a couple of years, anyway. So old languages don't die completely.) - 2: Java is poised to become the general-purpose programming language of - the future Well, Java has some real hurdles to overcome. One is that it isn't managed by an international standards body, which means Sun can change the Java spec on a whim. They also have not released the details of their "compatibility testing", AFAIK. Now, this doesn't mean Sun *will* act improperly, just that if they *do*, it will have major results. Another problem is that Java programs are very difficult to get running on different platforms, even without Microsoft's little power play. Folks who've tried writing applications with Java have had all sorts of headaches with the apps not running right on different machines. The "write once, run anywhere" hype is, for the moment, just that--hype. - I also expected that when Java became a regular programming language, there - would be optimizing compilers and all the other stuff that now comes with - C++ development tools. As Java matures, visual environments appear and so do "optimizing" compilers. However, Java doesn't compile to native code, it compiles to "bytecodes" which can be executed on any machine with the appropriate Java VM. This means that no matter how "optimized" the byte code sequence is, it must undergo a further interpretation or JIT-compile process before it is actually executed on the underlying processor. This sort of double-translation is very difficult to effectively optimize as well as if it were optimized directly to machine code in the first place. - Perhaps I should have asked the question, "What happens when C goes out of - style?" and given my answer, "Move to Java." This is indeed a much better question. Yes, this is the one you should have asked. :) - But then everyone would write in, "C probably won't die, and even if it - does, the programmers could keep their C compilers." I think C will be around at least as long as Java. :) C++ offers many of the same features as Java (although Java does some of them more elegantly). The advantages to C++ over Java are that (a) C++ tools are more mature; (b) C++ is easy for C programmers to pick up; (c) C++ is compiled to native code, not generic byte codes (so it's much faster). None of these are insurmountable advantages for Java, but until they're at least addressed, I don't see Java dislodging C++ for application development. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:29:54 -0400 Hoppy, - 80 doubles are ONLY used inside the intel co-processor. The user has no - access to these numbers, only their 64 bit approximations. Not quite. It's very easy to store 80-bit real numbers in memory. It's a limitation of MS Visual C++ that it doesn't support the long double format, but the processor certainly does and has no problem giving the "user" access to them. Microsoft's rationale for not supporting long doubles is that VC++ (with the appropriate expansions) can be used to compile code for more than just x86, and that other processors do not support Intel's 80-bit format. Sounds like an asinine reason to me, but that's what they say. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 15 Oct 1997 09:49:17 -0700 Hoppy wrote: >80 doubles are ONLY used inside the intel co-processor. The user has no >access to these numbers, only their 64 bit approximations. This seems to be true for Microsoft compilers, but is incorrect in general. Borland C++ compilers have 'long double' which gives you (and I copy this from their help screen) Type ? Length ? Range ---------------+---------+--------------------------------------- float ? 32 bits ? 3.4 * (10**-38) to 3.4 * (10**+38) double ? 64 bits ? 1.7 * (10**-308) to 1.7 * (10**+308) long double ? 80 bits ? 3.4 * (10**-4932) to 1.1 * (10**+4932) And you can print out the results and get about 19 significant digits. Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:04:38 -0600 In article <34444ECA.6314D059@vms.csd.mu.edu> , "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vmsb.csd.mu.edu> writes: > My original post was based of two (probably totally off-base) assumptions: > > 1: C is a dying language, as Sun would have you believe [...] Languages live longer than many people would like to believe... FORTRAN is still alive as FORTRAN 90 and it was originally conceieved to be nothing more than a glorified translator of formulas into assembly code (FORTRAN = FORmula TRANslator). LISP was also invented around the same time as FORTRAN (1950s) and is still alive and kicking as embodied in the Common LISP standard. C was invented in the middle/late 70s (1978?) and is alive and kicking as C++. Designers of new languages always like to paint the situation as one of near-death for competing languages and toot their own horns quite loudly about how their new language is better than all existing languages. Java has a niche and a role to play in network-based apps and has appeal for embedded network devices and some other things. I seriously doubt that Java will be displacing C/C++/FORTRAN/LISP out of its strongholds any time soon. Instead, it will be used where it makes more sense to use Java than C/C++. Java is a new language for new applications of programming, not a language that will replace other languages. Also, Java has been incredibly overhyped considering that its birthplace is the Mother of All Hype -- the web. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 10:23:23 -0700 Damien wrote: >I think C will be around at least as long as Java. :) C++ offers many of >the same features as Java (although Java does some of them more elegantly). > The advantages to C++ over Java are that (a) C++ tools are more mature; >(b) C++ is easy for C programmers to pick up; (c) C++ is compiled to native >code, not generic byte codes (so it's much faster). None of these are >insurmountable advantages for Java, but until they're at least addressed, I >don't see Java dislodging C++ for application development. The biggest difference between C++ and Java, to me, is the lack of complex in Java. Have you tried to write a roots of a complex quartic polynomial in real only arithmetic. It is a mess. While we like to talk of assembly optimization, there are still the experimental fractal projects some of us do, and these are easiest done in a smart language. Another $.03 Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 12:25:54 -0500 Hey Jay, I did a lot of zooming on Sunglasses and didn't have the problem you are describing. However, I don't know how to rotate a fractal in the formula the way you did in Sunglasses-r, What I did is simply press "page up" once to get a zoom box and then rotate the box with the mouse (hold right button). I didn't know people wanted a par file with a frm file I'll be sure to do that in the future. Q. Why do you want a par file? Can't you just use the frm file, or is there an easy way of using a par file to view an image. So far I've had to load the .frm and the .par to view the fractal .par. Why not just run the fractal from formula and save the image you like or don't like (of course with Nuker fractals "not-like" is impossible-right?). Q2. Why did Sylvie put a copyright on the par file posted yesterday? Isn't Fractint free? I don't see how you could claim it as original. Sylvie? Thanks, Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 11:44:15 -0600 Speaking of Java, if any of you are learning Java or just like free stuff :), then look at and search for "poster" on their site. If you fill out their little survey, they will send you a poster showing the class hierarchy of Java, which puts it all into perspective. In article <88256531.005F029F.00@NOTESGW.NOSC.MIL> , "Jay Hill" writes: > The biggest difference between C++ and Java, to me, is the lack of > complex in Java. Odd, I would have thought it would be included, but you're right, its not on the class hierarchy on the poster. I guess Sun doesn't consider complex numbers to be important for the target audience of Java -- network based applications. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) Buy Tim's book.... CHEAP! Date: 15 Oct 1997 12:16:13 -0600 FRACTALS FOR WINDOWS. By Tim Wegner, et al. Item # 962481 Pub at $ 34.95 Your Cost $ 5.95 Experience a hands-on fractal exploration using the bundled Winfract program to generate, manipulate, edit, color-cycle and save over 75 fractals, including projecting them into three dimensions. Includes a 3.5" disk. Paperbound Illus., some color. 358 pages Waite Group -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:04:35 -0400 Ramiro Perez wrote: >By the way, anyone knows on where I can find IFS files?, I search for >them (in altavista and spanky!), but I found no one (save the old ones >that come in fdesign and vifs). Try these: Nick Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) IFS Formulas Date: 15 Oct 1997 13:14:10 -0600 There is also a collection of IFS files in the fracxtra ZIP file available on Spanky. I think there is also an IFS editor that is much more intuitive than fractint in constructing interesting IFS par files. I can't remember the name of it, but I think it also is on Spanky. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sylvie Gallet Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 16:09:58 -0400 Hi Nuke, >> Q2. Why did Sylvie put a copyright on the par file posted yesterday? >> Isn't Fractint free? I don't see how you could claim it as original. >> Sylvie? Though the tool I used (Fractint) is free, the pars I posted yesterday are my creations (coordinates, coloring schemes, palettes...) and I don't= put them in the public domain. - Sylvie Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 16:25:28 -0400 Nuke, - Q. Why do you want a par file? Can't you just use the frm file, It is easier to start with a PAR file, particularly if your formula requires good values for p1, p2, or p3, or a particular location. With a PAR, you can set these parameters up to good "default" settings, and let people play from there. - Q2. Why did Sylvie put a copyright on the par file posted yesterday? - Isn't Fractint free? I don't see how you could claim it as original. FractInt is free, sure. But the images that you produce with it are *yours*. The ones I make are *mine*. They have a copyright simply by being created, and if someone wants to retain that copyright, they're perfectly entitled to. So while FractInt may be free, do NOT assume that every image you see produced with FractInt is also free. Many are not. Think of it this way. If you created a piece of artwork with Adobe Photoshop, does that mean Adobe owns the art? Of course not. Now let's say you got Photoshop free with your flatbed scanner. Does that mean artwork you produce with it is now free, too? Of course not. The copyright or distribution rights of the tool used have little bearing on whether what is produced is freely distributable or not. I hope this clears things up. Sylvie, didn't mean to butt in here (I know you can speak for yourself), but as someone who also copyrights their art, I felt compelled to speak. :) Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:32:38 -0600 Everything that is posted by anyone, anywhere on the network has an implicit copyright on it by the author. There is no need to explicitly state copyright anymore in order to have a copyright status on an author's work. Every email message, news article, web page, etc. already has the author's copyright on it. You have to explicitly state that you are putting something in the public domain in order for it to be in the public domain (at least for works created since the last revision of the copyright act/treaties in the 80s). Fractint is freely available, but unless the source code states that it is public domain, it is still copyrighted by the authors. Just because something is copyrighted doesn't mean you have to pay for using it. However, if someone started taking copies of fractint and tried to sell it as their own, that would be a blatant violation of the copyright and the Stone Soup Group could get a court injunction to prevent such a person from selling it. There is a copyright FAQ that discusses all of these issues, if you're interested in the gory details. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:48:17 -0500 Jay Hill wrote: > > > The biggest difference between C++ and Java, to me, is the lack of > complex in Java. Wait a minute! I don't remember C++ having complex as a type, either. The online docs for Microsoft Visual C++ 4.0 say something about a Fortran complex type, and simlating it in C++, and something about a complex function in Excel worksheets, but nothing about an actual complex class.Could you explain exactly what you mean by this? Also, I'm surprised that Java would include arbitrary precision decimals but leave out complex numbers. What was Sun thinking?????????????????? Of course, this means that you would have to write your own class for complex numbers. I tried it in C++ and the results were slow. I'm sure if you tried it in Java, the results would be SLOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Justin "I only use Win-doze because: 1. I need more hard drive space (read: a new hard drive) to run Solaris 2. 32 megs (the minimum) probably isn't enough for Solaris 3. 0% of my current apps would run on Solaris (unless there is an MS-DOS or Windows emulator available) 4. All of the above costs MONEY (which I don't have)" -Me Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:53:42 -0500 Rich Thomson wrote: > Speaking of Java, if any of you are learning Java or just like free > stuff :), then look at and search for > "poster" on their site. If you fill out their little survey, they > will send you a poster showing the class hierarchy of Java, which puts > it all into perspective. Sorry, I checked it out, and one of the results was a page saying that "the free Java posterpromotion has ended." :( Justin "I only use Win-doze because: 1. I need more hard drive space (read: a new hard drive) to run Solaris 2. 32 megs (the minimum) probably isn't enough for Solaris 3. 0% of my current apps would run on Solaris (unless there is an MS-DOS or Windows emulator available) 4. All of the above costs MONEY (which I don't have)" -Me Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 14:00:07 -0700 Nuke replied: >Hey Jay, >I did a lot of zooming on Sunglasses and didn't have the problem you are >describing. However, I don't know how to rotate a fractal in the formula >the way you did in Sunglasses-r, What I did is simply press "page up" >once to get a zoom box and then rotate the box with the mouse (hold right >button). >I didn't know people wanted a par file with a frm file I'll be sure to do >that in the future. OK, Now it works without changing anything?!?!?!? That is your frm which I couldn't get to work after the initial view. Other times, this was because some parameter of setting was not set right, like float=y. There are so many of these it is no easy to guess what you had when you were looking at it and zooming without difficulty. You see the glasses on its side? Rotate by hitting PGUP, CTRL'+' or '-' several times. I did that and got solid blue. At that point I hit B and save to the par file. That was the -r version. But then when I read it in, I still got solid blue. The only difference between the two pars is the rotation!!!! Anyone find this happening???? And then go away?!?!?!?! Thanks Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benno Schmid" Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 22:39:55 +100 Justin Kolodziej wrote: > > Actually, Fractint's palette editor only lists values from 0 to 63, so when you > increase a value in Fractint, it's like increasing the actual RGB component of the > color by 4. The translation is automatic, resulting in any increase or decrease in > color values in Fractint having meaning to the VGA adapter. So, it has nothing to > do with your SVGA card and everything to do wit Fractint's design. I really was stupid when I wrote this, only looked at the +/- one change and forgot about the maximum of 63. > Hope this doesn't confuse you TOO much... I think 64*4=256 is something I might probably understand... Benno Schmid Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:12:03 -0600 I'd like to mention that while VGA cards may impose this "divide by 4" business on the colormaps, there is no such imposition with unix based systems, the Windows color model or the color model in a GIF file colormap. So please don't assume that the world is a VGA card with 6-bit colors when creating your colormap files... always use the full 0-255 range. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 17:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Since the topic's been brought up, I'd like to ask: what does everybody think of copyright law as applied to fractals? That is, there exists a sense in which no fractal image is 'written' by anyone (except perhaps the inventor of the original formula) but only discovered inside a mathematical construct. One can envision legions of artists copyrighting every section of the Mandelbrot set at, say, zoom 4x. At the same time the rights of the artist who makes a real effort in searching, varying parameters and so on to produce an image would seem to be more comprable to the work of a sculptor finding the statue within a rock. For the first time in history, however, the law must draw a rather fine line between these two cases; fractals are infinitely reproducable, after all, so while a person on the street picking up a rock and calling it his copyrighted piece of art is no particular problem- who wants his rock?- doing the same for a fractal has worldwide implications. Where or how do we define the line between "random area of zooming in a public image" and "original work of art"? Ideas? Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:30:23 -0700 ijk wrote: >copyrighting every section of the Mandelbrot set at, say, zoom 4x. Don't get me started! If you look in the archive of this list or the fractal art list, you will see a post of mine where I remark about par files can only have 2000 max images. I created giant files with every midget through period 16 (nearly 65000) and many thousands more through period 64. I viewed many of these with Fractint which draws them at a pace of a second or each. It can get hypnotic. Anyway, I could post them and copyright the whole lot! It is stupid, I agree. As for copyrighting formula - the Mset equation was published in copyright articles by Mandelbrot himself. So there we are. I do respect work of others, as anyone who reads my publications will see, but some of the fractal artists seem to get too caught up in it, it seems to me. My $.03 worth. Oh my, you got me started. :-) Jay Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Why not Java? Date: 15 Oct 1997 15:30:33 -0700 Justin wrote, >Also, I'm surprised that Java would include arbitrary precision >decimals but leave out complex numbers. What was Sun >thinking?????????????????? Of course, this means that you >would have to write your own class for complex numbers. >I tried it in C++ and the results were slow. C++ complex classes are mostly written as inline functions, and so are not so slow. I get within a factor of two of unrolled loops in C. Actually, Java won't let you because it doesn't allow operator overloading. I was convinced this was wisdom in action when someone explained to me that all this was to keep the language simple. No overloading and no complex. But NOWWWW! you remind me that they have arbitrary precision decimals which is certainly not simple!! Good grief! Back to more on topic, we can look for Fractint to move to a windowing environment someday. Presumably that would be C++ although not necessarily. The other choices for a window program are Delphi, C, Java and VBasic (any others?). None of these have complex. I push for complex type because we will likely have the ablility to extend with addon functionality (special test functions) written in C++ or asm. These are easiest done with classes. One can even wrap complex extended precision in classes. I first used these in me DEEPZOOM program 4 years ago. The original is still posted at Spanky! and at my web page, see below. If you look carefully at this old program you will see I used _exact_ tests for points in the period 1, 2, 3, and 4 components. That is the big cardioid, the circle, the top and bottom bud (-0.123 +- 0.74i), the little cardioid at -1.75, the cardioids at -1.94 and (-0.156+-1.032i), and buds at -1.31, (0.28 +- 0.53i). These involved some not too simple complex arithmetic which would have been a royal pain done in C. If any of you recall my original posting about this program, I had converted an existing program to extended precision over night. Someone had complained that an extended precision Mandelbrot plotter had been spotted but costs $80. I replied the next day with one for free. If I had to do it in C or asm I'd want a lot more time.... I'd still be working on it. I vote for C++. And since Microsoft has no long double, I'd leave it out. Jay http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3825 main(){int f,g,h=0;float a,b,c,d,e;for(;h<3920;putchar("^/-,;<:lnb/bh`\ r/ylqbAmmhI/S/x`K\013"[++h>3840&&g<25?31-g:g>79?31:f]^1))if(!(f=(8*(c=( d=(g=1+h%80)/31.-2)*d+(e=.047*(h/80-24))*e)-3)*c+d<3/32.?24:16*(1+2*d+c )<1?30:0))for(a=d,b=c=0;(b=2*b*c+e)*b+(c=a)*a<=4&&++f<26;a=d-b*b+c*c);} Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 16:42:48 -0600 I think lots of people here are confusing copyright with patents, trademarks and other so-called "intellectual property" restrictions. Yes, Mandelbrot published the formula in a copyrighted work, but that doesn't mean that I am infringing Mandelbrot's copyright when I write z := z^2 + c. Before you go and get all bent out of shape about copyright, please take the time to understand what copyright IS and what it ISN'T. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 17:53:33 -0400 At 03:12 PM 10/15/97 -0600, Rich Thomson wrote: >I'd like to mention that while VGA cards may impose this "divide by 4" >business on the colormaps, there is no such imposition with unix based >systems, the Windows color model or the color model in a GIF file >colormap. So please don't assume that the world is a VGA card with >6-bit colors when creating your colormap files... always use the full >0-255 range. But what happens if I'm running fractint for DOS in a VESA mode and I specify a color that is not a multiple of 4, say 31,63,126? Does is round it off to 32,64,128 when it displays the color? Or does it truncate it to 28,60,124? If it does round or truncate, does it write it to the GIF file as 31,63,126? Nick nick.grasso@hrads.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Evin C Robertson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Excerpts from mail: 15-Oct-97 (fractint) Copyright law by Ian J Kaplan@sas.upenn.e > Since the topic's been brought up, I'd like to ask: what does > everybody think of copyright law as applied to fractals? That is, there > exists a sense in which no fractal image is 'written' by anyone (except > perhaps the inventor of the original formula) but only discovered inside > a mathematical construct. One can envision legions of artists > copyrighting every section of the Mandelbrot set at, say, zoom 4x. > At the same time the rights of the artist who makes a real effort in > searching, varying parameters and so on to produce an image would seem to > be more comprable to the work of a sculptor finding the statue within a > rock. For the first time in history, however, the law must draw a rather > fine line between these two cases; fractals are infinitely reproducable, > after all, so while a person on the street picking up a rock and calling > it his copyrighted piece of art is no particular problem- who wants his > rock?- doing the same for a fractal has worldwide implications. Where or > how do we define the line between "random area of zooming in a public > image" and "original work of art"? Ideas? You can copyright just about anything. Of course, if someone can reproduce your image using "clean room" techniques, they can use the image without your permission. For example, let's say someone copyrights their formula for a fractal. You just happen to stumble upon the same fractal by playing with formulae. You can also copyright the same fractal. The same thing with zooms. However, someone could patent their formula or zoom, and then even when someone else finds it, they are bound by the original patent. If you can patent the genes in my body, you can also patent the numbers of the mandelbrot set. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uri Bruck Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 00:59:36 +0200 (EET) On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Ian J Kaplan wrote: > it his copyrighted piece of art is no particular problem- who wants his > rock?- doing the same for a fractal has worldwide implications. Where or > how do we define the line between "random area of zooming in a public > image" and "original work of art"? Ideas? I recall seeing aninterview with a fractal artist who called himself a fractographer. He likened fractal art to photography, saying that if you put 20 people (or any number ) to take a picture of the same building, most would be fine, a couple of photos would be really good, and may be one or two would be art. Fractal art, he argued, was similar, in fact, the fractal universe might be considered by some to be infinitely larger. Furthermore, when you watch fractal art, you come to note the emergence of style. This has more bearing to the question of art than to the question of copyright. Uri Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: (fractint) Color Maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 16:59:39 -0600 In article <3.0.3.32.19971015175333.006e22b4@hrads.com> , nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) writes: > But what happens if I'm running fractint for DOS in a VESA mode and I > specify a color that is not a multiple of 4, say 31,63,126? Does is round > it off to 32,64,128 when it displays the color? Tim will have to answer that one, or perhaps someone who is more familiar with the fractint source code. > Or does it truncate it to > 28,60,124? If it does round or truncate, does it write it to the GIF file > as 31,63,126? If it messes up the colormap when writing the color table in the GIF file (i.e. VGA-izes it), then I would consider that a bug because its not storing the colors as specified. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) about Sunglasses and Int math. Date: 15 Oct 1997 18:58:02 -0400 Bonsoir. I have tried the sunglasses formula. Very stranges (an nice) effect with Decomposition option. Sunglasses_integer { ; "Hello, fractal word !" ; Thierry Boudet 101355.2112@compuserve.com ; created Oct 16, 1997 in Toulouse reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=pas_glop.frm formulaname=Sunglasses passes=1 center-mag=3.665e-006/-8.65e-007/0.6666663 decomp=8 video=F5 } Best regards from Toulouse, France. Thierry Boudet. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 20:47:54 -0400 Ian, Let me first state that I'm not a lawyer. I am not qualified to give legal advice. And all too often, what makes sense to real people doesn't necessarily line up with the way laws are written. - That is, there exists a sense in which no fractal image is 'written' by - anyone (except perhaps the inventor of the original formula) but only - discovered inside a mathematical construct. I would think that this is just one of those grey areas that we'd all just as soon would go away. :-) I look at it this way: when I make a fractal image, I own that image. The image is composed of the shape and coloring that I have chosen, and perhaps the actual formula used as well. AFAIK, though, US copyright law doesn't let you copyright mathematical expressions or formulae, which would rule out the use of owning the base fractal shape itself. This leaves you with the particular artist's choice of shape, location, and color. Duplicate these exactly, and there is little trouble in proving the image is copied. Where it gets a little more problematic is when someone changes your image somewhat and tries to pass it off as their own. Maybe they zoom a little bit, in or out, or they change the colors. This falls into the area of "derivative works", and would also be a copyright violation. However, if you zoom far enough into someone else's copyrighted image that the features are no longer recognizable as a detail from the original image, it would be harder to prove that it is a derivative work. In short, the more work put into it, the more likely you can establish that it is your own work--in the same way that musicians can be inspired by other musicians, and produce similar (but not identical) music. I think drawing the line between infringement and inspiration will very difficult. Some things are obviously one or the other, but I'm pretty sure there will be cases where the difference is not so clear-cut. These copyright questions are not academic. Within the past few days I had someone copy an image from one of my web pages and use it in their own web page, without credit. Only the colors were different (and only a hue shift at that). In this particular case, I think the person was simply unaware of the copyright infringement they were doing, but it illustrates the need to inform people about what is and is not proper. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:00:49 -0400 (EDT) << There are a couple of utilities I found very useful in making Fractint color maps. One is called "Makemap" and is included in the Fracxtr6 package available at Spanky's. http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html >> <> Woops! I just went and checked out the Fracxtr6 package that Dan Goldwater put together. The Makemap in the package is mine . By the way Fracxtr6 is a great compilation of lots of stuff that anyone starting with Fractint should have. Ron Barnett Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Jakubowicz Subject: Re: (fractint) RE: Fractint and Java Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:08:13 -0700 Thore Berntsen wrote: > > To those of You who are discussing Java : > > There is a very nice Fractint utillity called Filmer written in Java by > David Mansfield at : > > http://ariel.cobite.com/~julian/filmer/ > > You will even find the source of the program at thos site! > > > Hi Thore > I've been trying this URL for three days with no luck, mainly to see Java source code for a Fractint utility. Can you or anyone else tell me what this thing does (it's a stand-alone application, right, not an applet?) and where else I might be able to find it. Thanks, Peter Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Noring Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 19:13:45 -0700 (PDT) Sunspot activity caused ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J. Kaplan) to utter: > Since the topic's been brought up, I'd like to ask: what does >everybody think of copyright law as applied to fractals? That is, there >exists a sense in which no fractal image is 'written' by anyone (except >perhaps the inventor of the original formula) but only discovered inside >a mathematical construct. One can envision legions of artists >copyrighting every section of the Mandelbrot set at, say, zoom 4x. I don't feel qualified to give a definitive answer (if there is one) but as an electronic book publisher, an observer of the alt.religion.scientology copyright legal battles, etc., I've learned a little about copyright law, both U.S. and international (e.g., Berne). But note, IANAL. To summarize, current philosophy regarding copyright is that when a person *fixes* in a tangible medium any artistic, literary, or musical work, it becomes copyrighted automatically -- it is born copyrighted. The exception to this is if the person specifically gives the work to the Public Domain, or that the created work is in essence a whole copy of another copyrighted work. Note that ideas, databases (though this may change), and processes cannot be copyrighted -- it is only the tangible expression of those things which are copyrighted (e.g., the data in a phone book is Public Domain, but wholesale photocopying of pages from a phone book in excess of Fair Use allowance is a violation of copyright). In the case of fractal art, it can get a little fuzzy because of what constitutes a "copy". For example, if I take a Fractint parameter file (a type of "process"?) and duplicate the image, but I alter the color map, is it a new work, or is it a copy of an existing work (say in excess of Fair Use allowance)? Maybe there are legal precedents where the courts have figured this out, maybe in related cases, but I bet for fractal art it has not been tested to the point where courts have given precedent-setting decisions. If it has we'd be posting that information here. I would hope that others here who have a better handle of the copyright of Fractint-derived fractal images can post their thoughts here. I do recognize that the Fractint community may have come to a consensus, but note that until the courts rule definitively, a consensus means nothing legally. Jon Noring _____________________________________________________________________________ OmniMedia Digital Publishing | E-Books: http://www.awa.com/library/omnimedia 9671 S. 1600 West St. | Digital/Fractal Art: (coming soon!) South Jordan, UT 84095 | 801-253-4037 | E-mail: omnimedia@netcom.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:44:38 -0500 Shooooo WEE!!!! I didn't mean to get such a fuss started. The main reason I asked about copyrights was to avoid infringement or just plain ol' bad edicate. There was a par file put out the other day, I can't remember who just now, but it had a beautiful (really , hats off) par called Vivid. I saved the color map so I could use it on one of my fractals when I stopped and thought "Maybe this guy worked on this map?" and I wouldn't want to steal it! So, I ask my question. Is it ok to use some ones .map on my fractal? Should I make sure to give credit? If these are foolish questions please forgive me. But, I am not an artist, just an amateur math-guy. Thanks to everyone who put in a answer. A bonus Nuker Fractal WITH the par will be coming!!! Just see if you can stop me! HA HA HA HA HA !!! (maniacal laughter!) "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:38:17 -0500 Here is another M.L. Newsted Jr. Fractal .FRM- CrossN2Eyes (xaxis) { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. z = (pixel - 1) / pixel c = pixel: z = z*z + c |z| < 4 } .PAR- Star Algae { ; M.L. Newsted Jr. ; Green Algae in Blue Water reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nuker.frm formulaname=CrossN2Eyes center-mag=+0.44344171850000000/-0.32639172650000000/6249.668/0.9997 colors=00027g38g39h4Ai4Bi5Ci5Dj6Ek6Fk7Gk7Hl8Im8Jm9Km9LnAMoANoBOoBPpCQqCR\ qDSqDTrEUsFVsFWsGXtGYuHXuHYuHZuH_uI`vIawJbwJcwKdx<2>LgyAV0<12>CX2DX2DX2E\ X3EX3<18>H`6I`6I`7Ia7Ia8Ja8<4>KcALcALdAMdAMdB<7>PgDPgEPhEPhEQhF<20>WoNXo\ NXpNYpNYpO<8>`sR`tRatRatRbtRbtR<2>etRetRftRftRgtR<22>ttRutRutRutQ<5>utNu\ sNusNurMuqL<5>unHumHumGumG<9>uhBuhBugBugBugA<7>tc8tc8sb7sa6sa6s`5r`5rZ4r\ Z4rX4qX4qV2qV2qT2WWWWWWzzz<6>zzzkkkkkkzzz<5>zzz00e10f<4>26g } I know the color isn't that hot, but I'm still experimenting with those. Hi Thiery, did you get my message? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 21:43:38 -0500 So... if I create a fractal and par I can copyright it? "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke On Wed, 15 Oct 1997 16:09:58 -0400 Sylvie Gallet writes: >Hi Nuke, > >>> Q2. Why did Sylvie put a copyright on the par file posted >yesterday? >>> Isn't Fractint free? I don't see how you could claim it as >original. >>> Sylvie? > > Though the tool I used (Fractint) is free, the pars I posted >yesterday >are my creations (coordinates, coloring schemes, palettes...) and I >don't= > >put them in the public domain. > > - Sylvie > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Sylvie_Gallet@CompuServe.com > http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/sylvie/gallet.html > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Sylvie_Gallet/homepage.htm >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Kevin Nambo" Subject: Re: (fractint) Colors! Date: 15 Oct 1997 23:03:58 -0400 >So... if I create a fractal and par I can copyright it? No, because it's already copyrighted. (Ain't life grand?) But you can notify people that it's copyrighted, by using the little notices people put on their things. (ya know, some people,...) lol >>BKNambo "copyright 1997 me" -- | H badger@innocent.com (:P McQ)| UIN: 1936556 ____ __| |=@==== http://come.to/brocks.place |afw?*********** /_ \ / /| | H H H "World Domination Through Trivia" -S3Kitties / /\ \/ / | | H H H Marcher -- Just my imagination -- Nightwatch /_/ \__/ | Visit the really big monster MSN Trivia Schedule at my webpage! http://members.aol.com/brockbadge/sched.html Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 15 Oct 1997 22:16:31 -0600 Jay wrote: > This seems to be true for Microsoft compilers, but is incorrect in general. > Borland C++ compilers have 'long double' which gives you (and > I copy this from their help screen) I can't speak for the latest Win95-only Microsoft Visual C/C++ compilers, but I can definitively say that the older DOS MS C/C++ 7.0 that I use for Fractint DOES support 80 bit long double. I'd be very surprized if it turns out to be true that Microsoft has *removed* long double support. Tim Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 15 Oct 1997 23:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Jon Noring wrote: > > Sunspot activity caused ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J. Kaplan) to utter: no, no, it was the phase of the moon... [snip me] [snip you] [aside- I'm concerned in part about the definition of 'in essence identical' as applied to fractals... rather vague. Hell, maybe patent law is more applicable. 'Spark of genius', as the phrase goes, at least has some caselaw defining it.] > Note that ideas, databases (though this may change), and processes cannot be > copyrighted -- it is only the tangible expression of those things which are > copyrighted (e.g., the data in a phone book is Public Domain, but wholesale > photocopying of pages from a phone book in excess of Fair Use allowance is a > violation of copyright). > Right. So-- is the formula and parameter set for a fractal image not an idea? if it is an idea, just what is the tangible expression that is being copyrighted? if it is a tangible expression, well, gosh, "Mandelbrot set corners x1 x2 y1 y2" doesn't quite seem enough to be called an expression... > allowance)? Maybe there are legal precedents where the courts have figured > this out, maybe in related cases, but I bet for fractal art it has not been > tested to the point where courts have given precedent-setting decisions. If > it has we'd be posting that information here. Mathematical images as copyrighted art have never been the subject of real amounts of money, hence no court cases... I suppose I hope they will be... > > I would hope that others here who have a better handle of the copyright of > Fractint-derived fractal images can post their thoughts here. I do recognize > that the Fractint community may have come to a consensus, but note that until > the courts rule definitively, a consensus means nothing legally. > Oh, of course, it was just my curiosity speaking. Of course, when it does come time for a court to rule, one might expect it to take the opinions of the population of fractal artists as to what constitutes an original work under advisement, and a fair fraction of that community does read this listserv... :) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 16 Oct 1997 00:34:04 -0400 Tim, - I can't speak for the latest Win95-only Microsoft Visual - C/C++ compilers, but I can definitively say that the older DOS MS - C/C++ 7.0 that I use for Fractint DOES support 80 bit long double. - I'd be very surprized if it turns out to be true that Microsoft has - *removed* long double support. This is indeed the case, at some point along the line Microsoft _removed_ support for 80-bit long doubles from Visual C++ (I think at version 4). If you look in the float.h file you will see long double (and all the related limits) are defined, for anything not defining _M_M68K, as equivalent to the type double limits. This means that for 68K Mac compilation, you do get an 80-bit long double, but for x86, PPC, or Alpha, you only get 64-bit double. This is really baffling, since if in even *one* case they support the 80-bit format, it throws their compatibility argument out the window. Beats me what the hell they were thinking. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.icd.com/tsd/ dmj@icd.com / my art gallery: http://www.geocities.com/~fractalus/ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 01:40:25 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-15 07:31:12 EDT, you write: << There are a couple of utilities I found very useful in making Fractint color maps. One is called "Makemap" and is included in the Fracxtr6 package available at Spanky's. http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html >> I also have a Windows color map utility called "Makemap" which has been available at the Compuserve Fractint site (graphdev) since 1994 and at my web site (http:/members.aol.com/RBarn0001). Its free, of course. Ron Barnett Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nigel Long Subject: (fractint) Re: Old user, new problem Date: 16 Oct 1997 08:51:34 PDT From the originator of this thread.... Many thanks to all those who assisted in resolving this problem. The answer was found by changing the order of some of the commands in my SSTOOLS.INI file - Fractint seems to dislike some commands in certain orders. Vesadetect had to go first or it would not work. (anybody else found this?) I think we can call this thread closed. Thanks again - Now I can resume my 8 year love affair with fractals! Nigel Long Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: r.hopkins@ic.ac.uk Subject: Re: (fractint) 80-bit long double floating point Date: 16 Oct 1997 10:19:20 BST OK fair enough. So 80 bit numbers are acceptable. Does DJGPP allow them? I wasn't aware that there was a machine code instruction to copy the whole of one 80 bit fpu register to memory. They would probably be quite cumbersome to use, since they would require several 'ordinary' registers to store outside the fpu. However fractals can use these extra 16 bits of goodness, since the number never needs to leave the FPU during one iteration (in mandel case anyway), only if you actually wanted to do anything else with a particular coord, eg plot the real and imag values. I assume this is a bit more correct than last time... Hoppy BTW, A nice colouring method I use for 24 bit colour goes along the lines of: red = sin (Imag/mag) green = sin (real/mag) blue = sin (iter/mag) This sort of colouring is slower, but can make some really nice patterns. Try all sort of other combinations, they all look nice Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andrew Schoonmaker Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 05:47:00 -0700 At 15:30 10/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I created giant files with every midget through period 16 (nearly >65000) and many thousands more through period 64. I viewed >many of these with Fractint which draws them at a pace of a >second or each. It can get hypnotic. Anyway, I could post them >and copyright the whole lot! It is stupid, I agree. As for copyrighting >formula - the Mset equation was published in copyright >articles by Mandelbrot himself. So there we are. A couple of questions... One, what do you mean by "period 16" and "period 64"? Two, any chance you'd make said files available somewhere? :) -Andrew (who figures that while copyrighting an image isn't stupid, if it's too generic the chance of someone else trying to do the same is really high) Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 11:25:12 -0400 
I also have a Windows color map utility called "Makemap" which has been
available at the Compuserve Fractint site (graphdev) since 1994 and at
my web
site (http:/members.aol.com/RBarn0001). Its free, of course.
Ron Barnett
The "Makemap" utility I referred to as being part of the Fracxtra6 package IS yours!  (The version I have is 1.1 - 1994.  Do you have an update?) I apologize for not identifying you as its author, but it is sort of buried there among hundreds of other files and your name regrettably gets lost and one has to look for it.  Incidentally, the above URL does not work for me: "Netscape is unable to locate the server....."
Gedeon Peteri Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 12:05:29 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-16 11:31:25 EDT, you write: <<
I also have a Windows color map utility called "Makemap" which has been available at the Compuserve Fractint site (graphdev) since 1994 and at my web site (http:/members.aol.com/RBarn00 01). Its free, of course. Ron Barnett
The "Makemap" utility I referred to as being part of the Fracxtra6 package IS yours!  (The version I have is 1.1 - 1994.  Do you have an update?) I apologize for not identifying you as its author, but it is sort of buried there among hundreds of other files and your name regrettably gets lost and one has to look for it.  Incidentally, the above URL does not work for me: "Netscape is unable to locate the server....." Gedeon Peteri >> Gedeon, You are right, it is my "makemap" in Fracxtra6. I downloaded the package to check it out last night. The address above for my web site is missing a "/" after "http:". Here is a more complete address, which may help: http://members.aol.com/RBarn0001/index.htm. The newest version is 1.2. Someday, if I ever find time, I will make a Win95 version. Ron Barnett. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 12:09:15 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-16 11:31:25 EDT, you write: <<
I also have a Windows color map utility called "Makemap" which has been available at the Compuserve Fractint site (graphdev) since 1994 and at my web site (http:/members.aol.com/RBarn00 01). Its free, of course. Ron Barnett
The "Makemap" utility I referred to as being part of the Fracxtra6 package IS yours!  (The version I have is 1.1 - 1994.  Do you have an update?) I apologize for not identifying you as its author, but it is sort of buried there among hundreds of other files and your name regrettably gets lost and one has to look for it.  Incidentally, the above URL does not work for me: "Netscape is unable to locate the server....." Gedeon Peteri >> Gedeon, You are right, it is my "makemap" in Fracxtra6. I downloaded the package to check it out last night. The address above for my web site is missing a "/" after "http:". Here is a more complete address, which may help: http://members.aol.com/RBarn0001/index.htm. The newest version is 1.2. Someday, if I ever find time, I will make a Win95 version. Ron Barnett. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 10:33:43 -0600 My advice to anyone seriously concerned about copyright theft of their fractal images is to only published them in print. Don't publish the FRM file, don't publish the PAR file, don't publish the image -- especially not on your web page! However, this means that the audience for your work is severely limited since only those people who physically walk by the printed works are going to see them. There are also technologies for adding "digital watermarks" to image files so that you can prove they violated your copyright. I haven't looked into the details of how these work and I've always wondered if a 2x2 pixel gaussian blur filter over the image wouldn't remove them, but I've never had a sample to work with. Also, GIF and JPEG files have the ability to add text comments to the image, so you should add a "Copyright (C) 1997, Elmer J. Fudd" to the image in the text block. (You can see this information if you view the image in Netscape and do "View Document Info".) Personally I don't like the copyright notice attached to the pixels, I think its ugly, but that's just me :) -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 10:46:08 -0600 Jon, thanks for the interesting viewpoint. Here's a question for everyone to ponder. If I take the PAR/FRM files distributed in the fracxtra package and make batch files to generate all the images and them make the images available for others to browse on the web, would I be violating people's copyright? Presumably they published the FRM/PAR files in fracxtra to share in the first place. Many of the images in that collection take many hours to compute even on my P90 machine. People always say "distribute the par file and let the person recompute the image if they want", but as image computation time increases, it becomes less likely that people will even SEE the more heavy duty images. Lots of people are impatient and abort the image if it takes too long. I know that I wouldn't have seen even half of these images if I didn't batch render them and browse later. Thoughts? -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 10:53:10 -0600 In article <3.0.2.32.19971016054700.00722488@mail.eskimo.com> , Andrew Schoonmaker writes: > A couple of questions... One, what do you mean by "period 16" and "period > 64"? I'll take a stab at it... each "bud" in M is a basin of attraction. Inside each "bud" is a point c, where z := z^2 + c is a cycle. The length of the cycle is the period referred to; we can label the entire basin of attraction with the period of this point c. The main cardiod is period 1, the bud along the real axis to the left of the main cardiod is period 2, the next bud to the left of that along the real axis is period 4, and so on. The period doubling as you progress down the real line can be viewed in fractint by looking at the bifurcation fractal type. The bifurcation fractal type is a visualization of the dynamics of M along the real line. Clearer or muddier now? :) -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 13:18:55 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-15 17:44:41 EDT, you write: << Since the topic's been brought up, I'd like to ask: what does everybody think of copyright law as applied to fractals? That is, there exists a sense in which no fractal image is 'written' by anyone (except perhaps the inventor of the original formula) but only discovered inside a mathematical construct. One can envision legions of artists copyrighting every section of the Mandelbrot set at, say, zoom 4x. >> It applies. Several of us fractal artists have been involved in a suit with someone using images without permission. The case was settled out of court, but the take home lesson is that intellectual properties laws, including copyright, do apply. That's why many of us include copyright notices in our par files. Ron Barnett Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) Julibrot bug report Date: 16 Oct 1997 12:37:38 -0500 {WARNING: THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS EXPLICIT MATHEMATICAL CONTENT! IF QUATERNION JULIA SETS SCARE YOU, READ NO FURTHER!} The Julibrot fractal type seems to have a serious bug in it. It concerns drawing with the quat and hypercomplex types. Here's the details: 1. Draw a julibrot with orbit set to quatj, params set to your favorite numbers (preferably <1), and the from...to values set to -1,0,1,0. If you're too lazy, here's a .par file that does the same thing: testquat1 { ; any quatjulia reset=1960 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-2/2/0/0 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=quatjul center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.14/-0.32/0.1/0.5/0/0 colors=@altern.map } You get some type of quaternion julia set that probably isn't very interesting. Now press Z and change the orbit type to "quat". Leave everything the same, including the from...to values. A .par file for this: testquat2 { ; quat after pressing z reset=1960 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-2/2/0/0 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=quat center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.14/-0.32/0.1/0.5 colors=@altern.map } What do you see? If your program is like mine, you get the exact same picture that you get for step 1. Wait, it gets worse. Press t and reselect julibrot. Again, set the orbit to quat and change from...to to -2,0,2,0. .par file: testquat3 { ; julibrot/quat after pressing t ; a sphere on my system reset=1960 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-2/2/0/0 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=quat center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=0/0/0/0 float=y colors=@altern.map } Now, you get a sphere. What's going on here???? I thought if you pile up slices of the quat fractal type (2-D) you would get something much more interesting than a sphere, especially because you get the original Mandelbrot if you set all the params to 0 for the quat type (not quatjulia). BTW, the same thing happens for the hypercomplex type. And it doesn't work in Winfract either. Also, which way does julibrot with orbit=quatjul pile up the slices of the quaternion julia that you select? I've tried to find quaternion julias to make 3-dimensional, but when I pick one with, say, 5 branches, I can never find a trace of this symmetry in the plane of the screen. Is this because the quatjulia slices that appear in that type get drawn horizontally in the julibrot rendering, or does it just get hidden? Justin Kolodziej "I only use Win-doze because: 1. I need more hard drive space (read: a new hard drive) to run Solaris 2. 32 megs (the minimum) probably isn't enough for Solaris 3. 0% of my current apps would run on Solaris (unless there is an MS-DOS or Windows emulator available) 4. All of the above costs MONEY (which I don't have)" -Me Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 13:57:47 -0400 Ron, Well, yes! How stupid of me! I should have noticed that missing slash!  In any event, I got to your site and downloaded Makemap v. 1.2, but I regret to report that it does not work properly.  When maximizing the window, large part of the grid disappears and is replaced by a jumble of dots.  A map, however, can still be loaded, but now something related happens when one reduces the window.  Part of the maximized image remains in the background, with the reduced image overlapping it.  None of these problems occurred with version 1.1, to which I have now returned.  I like your program and use it a lot.  All of us owe a gratitude to people like you who generously make their work available free to all.  Gedeon
  Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 12:09:35 -0600 Speaking of color map tools, does anyone know of a tool that extracts MAP files from GIF files and lets you visually combine the colormaps from a collection of images, using combinative techniques like addition, subtraction, blending, random mix, etc., of the individual map entries? Sort of like the KPT fractal explorer interface, but for colormaps. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) Fractal Geometry of Nature -- $ 7.95 ! Date: 16 Oct 1997 12:19:40 -0600 Someone recently asked about this book, but I can't remember on which list, so I'm sending this to both. Actually, its good for both lists anyway :) This book, HARDBACK, is an absolute steal at only $8 + $3 shipping. I don't work for hamilton book, but I love the deals they have on remainders! Buy this book now while you have the chance at this price. Perfect for the coffee table! Lots of pictures, easily digestible in short doses as each section discusses different applications of fractals isolated from other sections. The bibliography alone is worth the price of the book! You won't be sorry :). -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ijk@sas.upenn.edu (Ian J Kaplan) Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 14:47:54 -0400 (EDT) RBarn0001@aol.com wrote: > > It applies. Several of us fractal artists have been involved in a suit with > someone using images without permission. The case was settled out of court, > but the take home lesson is that intellectual properties laws, including > copyright, do apply. That's why many of us include copyright notices in our > par files. > Ron Barnett > Oh, I never intended to suggest that copyright didn't apply. I'm just looking for clarification of exactly what is copyrightable and what isn't... Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: (fractint) Re: color maps Date: 16 Oct 1997 15:26:25 -0400 Contents: 1 Internet Message Header 2 * Binary * ============================= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii please use a more standard mode for your e-mails. Thanks. Thierry. Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 15:41:44 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-16 12:56:38 EDT, you write: << I be violating people's copyright? Presumably they published the FRM/PAR files in fracxtra to share in the first place. Many of the images in that collection take many hours to compute even on my P90 >> If the PAR has an imbedded copyright notice, then the image in GIF89a fromat will have the imbedded notice. From a practical point of view, the way most of us from the old graphdev compuserve forum have approached the matter is to allow free use UNLESS SOMEONE INTENDS TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE IMAGES!! Ron Barnett Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 13:49:29 -0600 In article <971016154020_-159462319@emout13.mail.aol.com> , RBarn0001@aol.com writes: > If the PAR has an imbedded copyright notice, then the image in GIF89a fromat > will have the imbedded notice. From a practical point of view, the way most > of us from the old graphdev compuserve forum have approached the matter is to > allow free use UNLESS SOMEONE INTENDS TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE IMAGES!! Cool... I wasn't planning on charging for access to the web site! -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractal Geometry of Nature -- $ 7.95 ! Date: 16 Oct 1997 17:06:58 -0500 Is the the book by Mandelbrot? I would Love to have a copy. Is there a way to ge tit instead of off the net? Alas. I'm not hooked up to the internet. But maybe soon. "...God is in the details..." Linus C. Pauling Nuke Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractal Geometry of Nature -- $ 7.95 ! Date: 16 Oct 1997 16:19:32 -0600 In article <19971016.170737.9198.1.newstedclan@juno.com> , newstedclan@juno.com writes: > Is the the book by Mandelbrot? Yes. > Is there a way to ge tit instead of off the net? They only take orders by US mail. Here's what you need: Send check/money-order to: EDWARD R. HAMILTON, Bookseller Falls Village, CT 06031-5000 Qty Item Number Title Price 1 845396 Fractal Geometry of Nature $ 7.95 ea. Shipping & Handling $3.00 They only ship to addresses inside the USA. -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 16 Oct 1997 22:38:38 -0400 (EDT) In a message dated 97-10-16 14:55:37 EDT, you write: << Oh, I never intended to suggest that copyright didn't apply. I'm just looking for clarification of exactly what is copyrightable and what isn't... >> Ian, My option (not necessarily the correct legal), which came out of much discussion on the afore-mentioned matter, is that formulae are probably not copyrightable while PAR file probably are copyrightable. If the color scheme of the image is changed enought to look uniquely different, it probably is not a clear violation of a copyright. . Ron Barnett Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu> Subject: (fractint) DOS vs. Windows (vs. X-Windows?), revisited Date: 17 Oct 1997 00:32:16 -0500 I hate to bring this subject up again, but I noticed that in the whole discussion on killing off the DOS version of Fractint, no real numbers indicating speed were mentioned. Well, I had some time on my hands, so I decided to run a test of my own. This is based on the "testquat1" .par that I recently posted: testquat1 { ; a radom quatjulia, just made up numbers reset=1960 type=julibrot julibrotfromto=-2/2/0/0 julibroteyes=2.5 orbitname=quatjul center-mag=0/0/0.6666667 params=-0.14/-0.32/0.1/0.5/0/0 colors=@altern.map } I then ran it in both Winfract and Fractint, with both float and integer modes Both tests used 800X600 resolution, and the Windows version was the active application all the time. The DOS version was run by double-clicking on a .PIF file (or shortcut) that had all the defaults unchanged (in other words, the shortcut that appears after you run an MS-DOS program for the first timewas not modified) except for debug=500 as a command-line parameter, allow screen saver disabled, and idle sensitivity set to max. SSTOOLS.INI only contains textsafe=save. My system is a Pentium Pro 180 MHz (too slow and old ;) ) with 32 MB RAM, a Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 Pro video card, running Windows 95 (not OSR2). Here are the results: Fractint Integer: 26 min 40.47 sec Fractint Float: 26 min 43.87sec WinFrac Integer: 12 min 17.59 sec WinFrac Float: 12 min 79.98 sec This really surprised me because most of the Windows ports of things I use run a lot slower than the DOS versions. If anyone would like to try these tests on his/her computer, or make up his/her own, I only ask that you be as specific as possible about your system information (XFractint users are especially encouraged to join the debate! :) ) If anyone can explain why WinFract is so much faster, that would be cool, but don't expect to get anything out of it other that admiration! Justin K. Bad(?) Linux slogans: -- Linux: The OS for truly independent spirits! -- -- Linux: Marquette's Web server (www.mu.edu) uses it, shouldn't you? -- -- Linux: Because it's free -- -- Linux: Because you can -- -- Install Linux: Tell Microsoft where to stick it! -- Justin Kolodziej is 4wg7kolodzie@vms.csd.mu.edu Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul N. Lee" Subject: Re: (fractint) Copyright law Date: 17 Oct 1997 01:12:21 -0500 Ian J Kaplan wrote: > > Since the topic's been brought up, I'd like to ask: what does > everybody think of copyright law as applied to fractals? > U.S. Copyright Law ================== Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U.S. Code http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/) to the authors of "original works of authorship" including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. This protection is available to both published and unpublished works. Section 106 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/106.html) of the Copyright Act (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc/17/overview.html) generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others to do the following: -- To reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; -- To prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work; -- To distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending; -- To perform the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works; -- To display the copyrighted work publicly, in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work. It is illegal for anyone to violate any of the rights provided by the Act to the owner of copyright. These rights, however, are not unlimited in scope. Sections 107 through 119 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc/17/107.html) of the Copyright Act establish limitations on these rights. In some cases, these limitations are specified exemptions from copyright liability. One major limitation is the doctrine of "fair use," which is given a statutory basis in section 107 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html) of the Act. In other instances, the limitation takes the form of a "compulsory license" under which certain limited uses of copyrighted works are permitted upon payment of specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions. For further information about the limitations of any of these rights, consult the Copyright Act (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc/17/overview.html) or write to the U.S. Copyright Office (http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/).... Links to Related Web Sites ========================== Active Copyright Law -------------------- The U.S. Copyright Office http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/ Electronic registration at the Copyright Office gopher://marvel.loc.gov/11/copyright The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office http://www.uspto.gov/ The Library of Congress http://www.loc.gov/ The Copyright Society of