From: fractint-owner@xmission.com (fractint Digest) To: fractint-digest@xmission.com Subject: fractint Digest V1 #22 Reply-To: fractint@xmission.com Sender: fractint-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: fractint-owner@xmission.com Precedence: fractint Digest Saturday, October 4 1997 Volume 01 : Number 022 In this issue: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? (fractint) 3D Formula Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? (fractint) Centering problem Re: (fractint) Centering problem Re: (fractint) Centering problem [none] Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? (fractint) Howdy! Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) Howdy! Re: (fractint) Howdy! (fractint) SnowFlakeColor Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Re: (fractint) Howdy! Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor (fractint) Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 09:15:40 +0100 From: Roelf Renkema Subject: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Still can't get 9.6 up and running on my machine. I installed a new graphics card but it still won't go. Is does run an older machine but this baby here says no and: I'm using the dos version 19.6. Now under DOS it just won't startup and crashes my system (a Cyrix 486-dx2 66Mhz) Under Win95 I get the message that it's using a wrong instruction and halts on 391D:0BE0 interupts used none BTW I Got the right archive I followed Noels messies on that So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. So I now give you Fractint programmers the option: Turn the code upside down or Deliver a new window version or else I will go play somewhere else. Ha must be a hard choice for you guys and girls &8-D Greetz Grey - -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 01:28:32 -0700 From: cindy mitchell Subject: (fractint) 3D Formula Both Linda and Rich were correct. My 3D comes after each and every " = " sign, also at the end of each line in the color section. So along with deleting I have to reformat. I am so glad for this forum. It is nice to know there are so many fractint enthusiast out there. Thank You, Cindy - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal If you try some guy's frm file and see nothing/garbage, try: * maxiter=2000 * float=y * zooming out, zooming in * outside=iter/viewwindows=n/inside=0/color cycle (just in case your palette is goofed up or you set inside=outside=0 or something!) * Check the z screen. Some formulas use a parameter as a bailout. If you use the default 0 you'll get nothing. Look for a comment saying "use small nonzero number for p2" or large number or whatever, and look for the formula ending with something like lastsqr<=p2 or something. Try a big real number for p1 or p2, then the other, then small numbers like 0.001. - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 10:26:06 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Greetz Grey wrote: >So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over speed or getting too hot. On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel chips (specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on mathematical processes. The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are used by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors. Jay - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:19:44 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Charles wrote: >Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a count of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9. But the edge moved in a little. Strange.... Jay Fig3 { ; raise count and zoom to edge ; looks like smooth lines still reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.11277288466532970/+0.22362335945091970/1525879 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=1023000000 colors=0D0000<15>9Tx<24>24N13M12K00I00H<14>001000000<2>800B00F10I10<4>W4\ 0Z50a60c70e80g90jB0<2>oE0qF0sH0tJ0vK0wM0xN0<4>zV0zW0yT0<2>sJ0qF0nE0mE0<4\ >Z80W60T50Q30O30<3>E10C00B00<10>100000100200<5>B0AD0CE0F<20>k0w<7>N0QK0M\ J0L<17>401000<2>010020040<26>0d00f00e0<25>080060050030020000000 } - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:58:27 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal >>Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a >count >of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. > > >Well it still has a smooth vorder with maxiter = 1e9. But the edge moved >in a little. Could you resend that Charles? Some copies of it got garbled in the mail system. Mine for instance came out "1e9" :-) - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 97 10:21:52 EDT From: dewey@mipg.upenn.edu (Dewey Odhner) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal > From: VRCH78B@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES F CROCKER) > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 23:35:18, -0500 ... > Looking at the center of a side at a considerable magnification and a count > of 1023 it appears that we have a smooth border. But if we go down closer > to the chaotic appearing area and raise the count we see high count > filaments creeping twords the center. I suspect that at high enough counts > and magnification the apparently smooth side will break up everywhere. You are probably right. I retract my conjecture that there is a neighborhood where the boundary has fractal dimension 1. But those filaments that cluster against the smooth part of the boundary do not attach to the smooth part, but around the ends. Thus I still conjecture that it is non-locally connected. - --Dewey - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 17:51:42 +0100 From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Op 10:26 1-10-97 -0700 schreef Jay Hill zoiets als: > >Greetz Grey wrote: > >>So I think (but who am I) that there is a problem in the code. > >There may be the possibility that your Cyrix 486-dx2 chip is bad, over >speed or getting too hot. Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only Fractint troubles me. But I will check. Tomorow I will try the proccessor from my other computer on which Fractint runs without problems,in this one. Talk about debugging &8-) >On the Merseene list, there have been extensive discussions about Non-Intel >chips >(specifically Pentium level) not performing as well as Intel on >mathematical processes. > >The guts of the Merseene algorithm (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm) are >used >by Intel as part of their spot test of the processors. > > >Jay Thanx for the tip anyway, we will see I keep you folks posted. Gray. Greetz Grey - -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:34:40 -0400 (EDT) From: A M Kelley Subject: (fractint) Centering problem - --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice - --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="center.par" Content-ID: Content-Description: Flying_squirrel { ; amkelley@freenet.columbus.oh.us reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1 center-mag=-0.42372894500000010/-0.00009917999999998/0.7528158/0.9997 params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300 bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<6>iVG<\ 14>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<9>ZEBXCAXCA<29>mZEn_FmZFlYF\ kXF<2>jVEjUEiTDiSC<5>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEjWFiVG<\ 14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl } - --1920402471-743720403-875820975:#23014-- - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:58:52 -0400 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem Alice, - Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice Sure. Press "z", F6, enter "0" for Center X. Hit return twice. Unless this is not what you mean... Neat picture. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:25:10 -0400 (EDT) From: RBarn0001@aol.com Subject: Re: (fractint) Centering problem In a message dated 97-10-02 15:43:50 EDT, you write: << Is there any way to center this fellow? --Alice >> Alice, This fractal is a Julia which does not have y axis symmetry. Since you forced symmetry with Y center not equal to zero, you image was offset. I tinkered with the par by setting the Y center to zero and changing the magnification a little. The center part of the image seems to changed a little bit. This is a really nice image. Here is the modified par: Ron Barnett ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Flying_squirrel2 { ; t= 0:00:17.14 ; On a 486 66 at 320 x 200 reset=1960 type=julfn+zsqrd function=ident passes=1 center-mag=+0.00225067000000001/+0.00061798499999999/0.6502007/0.9995 params=-0.85162353515625/0.4166107177734375 maxiter=300 bailoutest=and inside=bof60 logmap=yes symmetry=yaxis colors=Y0Azzm<5>yoRxmNxkJwiFvfD<3>qU6pR4oQ4<12>ZC5YB5W96U87T77R58<5>fRFi\ VGjXI<13>vqgwsiwsh<13>wjHwiFwiF<10>mZFlXFkWFjUEiTE<7>`HC_GBZEBXCAXCA<29>\ mZEn_FmZF<2>kWFjWEjVEjUE<7>gM9gL8gL8fK8<12>YD9XCAXDA<13>hSCiUDiUEiVEiVEj\ WFiVG<14>vqgwsiwsh<14>wiFD12A00<7>V09`0C<25>yxl } +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 19:27:30 -0700 From: Peter Jakubowicz Subject: [none] Hi, I have a possibly dumb question? Can someone tell me who GeneDeWeese is? Sorry, only kidding. What I am really wondering about is how to post a FRACTINT formula and/or parameter file. Do people somehow save them as text files and attach them to their messages? I gather they are not typed out by hand. I wld appreciate any tips, as I might be so bold as to post some for anyone interested. Also thanks for the recent answers to my question about anti-aliasing -- the signal processing analogy, I think, is quite brilliant, gives me a very good picture of the process. Thanks, Peter Jakubowicz - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:46:10 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Greetz wrote: > Na it must be somewhere in the instructionset. If it would be the latter > then it should occure with other software to and I'm sorry to say that only > Fractint troubles me. Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made. One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the "common problems in the docs"? Try these one at a time on the command line: fpu=noiit fpu=387 adapter=vga vesadetect=no Just fishing for a possible answer to your Cyrix problem. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 23:48:44, -0500 From: VRCH78B@prodigy.com (MR CHARLES F CROCKER) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal Paul said "Some copies of it got garbled in the mail system. Mine for instance came out "1e9"" Mine came out 1e9 also. That's less than half of what Fractints good for. Actually that was Jay's comment. The count skyrockets so fast that most of the high counts occur in a very narrow region and the main figure gets into a loop so fast that times are reasonable until magnification gets quite high. I am willing to accept on faith that the border will eventually breakup. As an example of how far you might have to go here are three par files for a point near the main figure and close to the obviously brokenup area. Fig1 { ; Solid high count band,almost ; P90 time 0:06:49.69 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957924146630/+0.05334815365641891/4.563969e+009 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } Fig2 { ; Isolated dot becomes line ; P90 time 0:03:05.71 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373397910/9.127939e+010 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } Fig3 { ; Which contains other solid lines ; P90 time 0:08:00.60 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=dewey.frm formulaname=test97c center-mag=-0.49040957899188690/+0.05334815373630590/9.127916e+011 params=0/-1 float=y maxiter=16384 inside=40 viewwindows=4.2/0.75/yes/0/0 } I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent. This is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to locate all the side roads. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 14:43:38 +0100 From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Now the problem is getting weirder. Dig this.... I tried another graphic card NO DO and now I tried another processor NO DO This other proccessor came from a computer where fractint had no problem at all. I'm spooked. It can't be that the second graphic card gives also trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something weird is going on. Well atleast my pc got a complete overhaul &8-) Greetz Grey - -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 11:00:33 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal VRCH78B wrote: >I set inside color to 40 to make the high count area readily apparent. This >is as far as my patience lasted. Sort of like using an electron microscope >to examine the road before a cross country trip. Might be a little hard to >locate all the side roads. I set your iteration limit up by a factor of 100 and find your Fig3 is not at the edge. Looking at the orbits, I see the smooth triangular interior region has period =1. Now we should be able to solve by Newton's mehtod, if need be, for the boundary and show it has smooth sides. It looks to me that only in the corners is it otherwise. My $.03 worth. Jay - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:16:49 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Roelf asked: > It can't be that the second graphic card gives also > trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something > weird is going on. A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that option it's not video. Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the memory is OK? If you swap out *everything* it should work Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:14:57 -0500 From: newstedclan@juno.com Subject: (fractint) Howdy! Howdy! My name is Merle L. Newsted Jr. but please call me Nuke. I've had an interest in fractals for about two years. A friend lent me a copy of Mandelbrot's "Fractal geometry of Nature". out of sight! Well. I searched the web and found Fractint 19.5 about six months ago, and I 've had a lot of fun with it. Thanks . Now here is my first serious attempt at writing my own fractal. I used the tutorial for L-system fractals on the spanky web site. I made a really beautiful desktop screen for windows by running a 12 iterations (i think) and then cycling the colors till the "trunk" brown and the tips were a purpley pink "flower". Well. If anybody tries it I'd like to know what you think. later nuke)*( Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke - My first real attempt Angle 32 Axiom +++++++++X X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X } - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 08:41:17 +0100 From: Roelf Renkema Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Op 17:16 3-10-97 -0600 schreef Tim Wegner zoiets als: >Roelf asked: > >> It can't be that the second graphic card gives also >> trouble could it? Its a diamond stealth 2400 with 4 mb on board. Something >> weird is going on. > >A video board could hang fractint because of the tests for video >boards on runup. This can be positively checked by using the >adapter=vga commandline option. If Fractint still hangs with that >option it's not video. OK lets forget the video &8-) > >Are you positive you have a good copy of Fractint? Did you change >the complete motherboard or just the CPU chip? ARe you sure the >memory is OK? It runs on my other PC so it should be good, the archive is the one Noell stated as the right one. Ofcause I only changed the chip wouldn't make sense else now would it. Memory is just fine. ONLY THE S&%t EXE WONT RUN (starting to cry now) > >If you swap out *everything* it should work > Don't temped me! Pub is just around the corner &8-D Greetz Grey - -- _/_/| grey@nym,alias.net (o(o) \ ' The Wolf ' OO~~ / \--__ ,/ "I like'm sweet and wet" |/~ `-' Proud member of nl.erotiek.bdsm - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:00:13 -0400 From: "Damien M. Jones" Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? Grey, Whatever your problem with FractInt is, it's not because it doesn't work with Cyrix CPUs. I've used FractInt on Cyrix 486, 5x86, and 6x86 processors. It always ran fine. Also, I seriously doubt it's an overclocking thing. Having overclocked (or at least attempted to) every processor I've ever owned or built into a system, it's been my experience that DOS real mode programs (like FractInt) are generally the *most* reliable at higher speeds. Crashes usually occur in protected modes, like most modern games or systems like Windows. So this is almost certainly not it. This is one bizarre problem, dude. Damien M. Jones / temporary sanity designs / http://www.emi.net/~dmj/ dmj@emi.net / my gallery: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2605/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 15:48:16 -0400 From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! Hello Nuke. I have tested your "nice flower". I like it ! I have never played with L-system, but I'm going now to try it. Only one note: may be you can put your e-mail in a comment in the formule ? And now _my_ question: why zoom fonctions are disabled in L-system ? I cant' see a technical reason, because I think that the complete image is computed in the first pass (twirlling baton) an displayed in the second pass. Is there a guru here for an explanation ? Best regards from Toulouse, France Thierry Boudet - ------------------------------------ Fltree(with color) { ;author Nuke Angle 32 Axiom +++++++++X X=<01F[@.64+++X]-F[@.29---X]@.5X } - ------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: kimjd@plu.edu Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 19:02:37 -0600 From: "Tim Wegner" Subject: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in lsystems, you might want to read it. A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through my old version archives and determined that the last version of fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the lines of disabling the fast assembler. Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my personal develoiper version! It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered. Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal will fail. I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked! So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed eventually, but not yet. Oh yes - the fact that SnowFlakeColor broke when we added assembler was just a coincidence. I'm sure that first version that broke just had less stack space allocated than the version before. Tim - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:24:27 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Serious Fractint 19.6 bug? >Sometimes non-standard hardware hangs when hardware tests are made. >One strategy is to try to disable hardware tests. Have you read the >"common problems in the docs"? Of course if it hangs on startup he won't be able to reach the "common problems" help screen, except by going reading it or using makedoc on a machine where it runs ok. - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:26:12 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) An interesting fractal You're telling me this guy really used 1 billion maxiter?! - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) Howdy! > > > > Neat, concise, very compact, and no grammatical or spelling errors. However, I must take fifteen marks off for these: Your essay lacks a focus or main point, it is ambiguous and unspecific, and you don't present even one point or example or argument to support your thesis, which itself is non-existent. :-) - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:54:04 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: Re: (fractint) SnowFlakeColor >This is a somewhwat technical note, but if you are interested in >lsystems, you might want to read it. > >A while ago someone here reminded us that the Lsystems image >SnowFlakeColor has been broken for a long time. I traced back through >my old version archives and determined that the last version of >fractint that correctly rendered SnowFlakeColor was also the last >version before the assembler speedups for lsystems were added. Since >the Linux version of Fractint has no trouble with this fractal, and >also does not use assembler, I thought this conclusively demonstarted >that the bug was in the assembler. I suggested something along the >lines of disabling the fast assembler. > >Well, it turns out I was wrong. Today I was thinking about this, and >wondered if the debug=70 switch which disables the detection of a >coprocessor would make lsystems use C rather rthan assembler. (See >debugflag.doc for "undocumented" switches like this.) In the process >of experiementing, I discovered that SnowFlakeColor worked in my >personal develoiper version! > >It turns out tha SnowFlakeColor fails because of a shortage of stack >space. Stack is the memory used to allocate space for local variables >in routines. Lsystems uses a recursive algorithm, which means that >the main lsystems function calls itself as the image is rendered. >Each time a new call is made to the recursive function, new copies of >the local variables are allocated from the stack. If the depth of >recursion is too great, stack memory will run out, and the fractal >will fail. > >I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a >prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to >work. Since more stack was available, SnowFlakeColor worked! > >So we know what the problem is. Fixing it won't be easy, but I'll >make sure SnowFlakeColor is OK for the next release. There are many >trials and tribulations shoehorning more features into a conventional >memory propgram like Fractint - we are constantly figuring out how to >squeeze more out of limited memory. This burden will be removed >eventually, but not yet. Glad the problem has been resolved. (This of course further argues for a 32-bit version for DOS... and overclocked Cyrix chips can go hang, if 32 bit protected mode will otherwise greatly improve performance and expandability... waitaminnit...WHAT did you just say? >I had to increase the stack memory in my personal version to get a >prototype of the synchronous orbits (fractal witchcraft) routine to >work. That's what I THOUGHT you said. SYCHRONOUS ORBITS?! WOOHOO! - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 00:04:07 -0400 (EDT) From: ao950@freenet.carleton.ca (Paul Derbyshire) Subject: (fractint) Mailing list is dropping letters on the floor I am copying this directly to twegner because the list copy may not make it to anyone as I shall shortly explain. Today I rapidly sent off about six articles to the list. As usual, it was a while before I received copies from the mailing list. But, I received the second, fifth, and sixth. The first, third, and fifth never made it. Clearly the list got them, because it got and sent the sixth. So it got them but didn't send them! This would seem to indicate a serious software problem somewhere at the server (xmission.com?). Fortunately, I keep carbon copies of all my outgoing mail anyways, so as soon as I become aware the problem has been rectified I shall be able to resend the three lost messages and will incur no irreperable damage at my end...unfortunately the same might not prove true for other users of the list. A software problem that eats messages without a trace, or even a bounce, and thus causes possible permanent loss of data, is serious enough that I feel it warrants being checked into at earliest convenience and at top priority, by whomever is in charge of such things at xmission... If software troubles at xmission are not something you (twegner) can directly deal with, I guess you must know who can, since you got the list set up there through somebody, and then this message should be forwarded to the appropriate technical person. Thank you... - -- .*. Where feelings are concerned, answers are rarely simple [GeneDeWeese] -() < When I go to the theater, I always go straight to the "bag and mix" `*' bulk candy section...because variety is the spice of life... [me] Paul Derbyshire ao950@freenet.carleton.ca, http://chat.carleton.ca/~pderbysh - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ End of fractint Digest V1 #22 ***************************** To subscribe to fractint Digest, send the command: subscribe fractint-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-fractint": subscribe fractint-digest local-fractint@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "fractint-digest" in the commands above with "fractint". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/fractint/archive. These are organized by date.