From: fractint-owner@xmission.com (fractint Digest) To: fractint-digest@xmission.com Subject: fractint Digest V1 #38 Reply-To: fractint@xmission.com Sender: fractint-owner@xmission.com Errors-To: fractint-owner@xmission.com Precedence: fractint Digest Friday, October 24 1997 Volume 01 : Number 038 In this issue: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 (fractint) Tim's random formula (fractint) genetic algorithm for fractal formulas Re: (fractint) slit island technique Re: (fractint) How does boundary scanning work? Re: (fractint) Fractal Books Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals (fractint) printing fractint (fractint) nova pars Re: (fractint) printing fractint RE: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals (fractint) problem with par files Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 Re: (fractint) problem with par files (fractint) Word wrap and attachments Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Re: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals (fractint) nova-type formulas Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals (fractint) Potential Max Color Problem Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the fractint or fractint-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:52:55 -0500 From: leenewsted@juno.com (Merle L Newsted Jr) Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 Try creating a "shortcut" on your desktop, and be sure to set the screen to "Full Screen" (right click the shortcut icon and look in properties, click "screen" tab) I had the same problem too, but now it works for all aplicable settings. later, nuke On Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:39:48 +0200 "R. J. Jonker" writes: >Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized >window of >course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems >to >complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows >tells >me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably akward >translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can use >fractin only withe the normal VGA standards. >When i make a special DOS-session, I hav no problems. >My question: Is this normal behavior of fractint or should I somewhere >in >Windows change some setting? >Hoping for an answer >Roelof Jonker > >--- >The right of free speech implicates the duty to think > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List >Post Message: fractint@xmission.com >Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" >Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net >Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" > - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 10:24:02 -0700 (MST) From: Kerry Mitchell Subject: (fractint) Tim's random formula Tim Wegner posted a "random" formula, and challenged us to come us with interesting par files for it. Here's mine. (It's best done at high res and anti-aliased down for viewing) blue_tim { reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=tim's_fract center-mag=-1.25263715900483200/+1.44808875819554800/4810.826 float=y maxiter=256 inside=0 decomp=256 periodicity=0 passes=1 colors=001001<10>6BL6CM7DO8EP9FR<5>CL_CM`DNaEObEPc<8>KYmLZnM_n<6>RftSgtT\ huUiuVjv<5>apybqycrydsyftyhuzivzkwznxzpyztzz<2>lwzjvziuz<2>drybqyapx`ox<\ 3>XkwVjvViv<3>RetQdsPcrObqOap<12>EQdEPcDOa<2>BLZBKXAJWAIU9HT9GR8FQ<11>13\ 6124012000012124<9>6CM7DN7EP8FQ8GS<4>BLZCM_DN`DOaEPc<15>PcrQdsResSftTgtU\ hu<3>XlwYmw_nx<2>bqydryesygtyhuz<3>ryzzzztzzpyznxzkwz<2>ftydsycrybqy<10>\ RftQesQdr<6>KYmKXlJWkIVjHUiHTh<6>DM_CLZBKYAJXAIV<8>59I48G47E36C35A<3>113 cyclerange=0/255 } frm:Tim's_fract { ; Example of a more or less random formula z = Pixel: ; I have no clue what the point of this formula is ; it came straight from my subconscious z = (sinh(z*z + log(z)))/(z*z + 2) |z| <= 16 } - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kerry Mitchell lkmitch@primenet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 11:37:59 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: (fractint) genetic algorithm for fractal formulas Since fractint allows you to write arbitrary formulas for fractals, has anyone considered writing a program that uses genetic algorithm techniques to "invent" formulas for fractint? I don't imagine the process would be very interactive, more like you'd probably setup things to go at night and then give it some user feedback in the morning . Just wondered if anyone else has thought of doing this. I can think of ways to do it with a perl script, but I am too occupied with other projects to explore it at the moment... - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 14:42:39 -0400 From: Thierry Boudet <101355.2112@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: (fractint) slit island technique > The title of my project is The Fracture Analysis > of Stainless Steel Using Fractal Analysis. > So far, I have had great difficulty trying to find any information > on this subject > Therefore any possible help on the subject would be greatly recieved. There was a very good french book called "Precis d'analyse d'image" by Michel COSTER and Jean-Louis CHERMANT, edited in 1985 by the CNRS (french National Center for Scientific Research) This book was very oriented on mathematic morphologie, granulometrie, cristallographie but, ... I don't know if the fractal aspects of your probleme is here. May be you can go to http://www.cnrs.fr/ and search or ask about this book. Thierry. (Toulouse, France) - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:27:41 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) How does boundary scanning work? In article <971021171343_1757353200@emout03.mail.aol.com> , SWarsMatt@aol.com writes: > Hi, I'm new to this list. Sorry to bother you with this question, but how > does the boundary scanning method work? I would appreciate a clear > explanation and some simple source code for drawing the M-set by this method. I think there's an explanation of the algorithm in "Science of Fractal Images" by Peitgen. You should be able to find this book in a local library. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 13:29:26 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractal Books Peitgen has written three books, each successive book being easier to understand by a non-mathematician: Beauty of Fractals (you may have seen "BOF.PAR" in the fractint distribution; BOF = Beauty of Fractals) Science of Fractal Images Chaos and Fractals Each book was larger than its predecessor as well :) - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:01:22 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals In article <3.0.3.32.19971023164431.0068a838@mail.emi.net> , "Damien M. Jones" writes: > programs out there that can read PNG and write JPEG, for those that want to > do the conversion. (This will have the side-effect of removing any PAR > information from the file, which is a good or bad thing, depending on your > point of view. :) I'd like the PAR file information to be saved as a text string to the image instead of an application-specific binary block. Many programs can extract the text string information from an image file; only fractint can extract the PAR file information when it is stored as binary data. Both PNG, JPEG and GIF all support adding text string comments to an image file. (Usually intended for copyright notices.) - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:57:32 -0700 From: kathy roth Subject: (fractint) printing fractint A couple of weeks ago I asked about printing fracint and received a couple of replies suggesting graphics programs to buy. Since then my hard drive broke and I lost the replies. I wonder if the people who replied could repeat their suggestions. I have been following this discussion with some interest. I think it would be too bad to eliminate the built-in formulae because it enables computer neophytes to do some really interesting things. I was inspired to do some reading about fractals and chaos and to go review some college math. Do you have suggestions about where to find basic information on using a formula or giving a command string etc. I have been reading the spanky pages. Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:15:55 -0400 From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) nova pars I cannot get Paul Derbyshire's page either. The message I get says that my server is not permitted to open this page. Is this part of the problems Paul wrote about, or have I got some additional ones? I just saw the Nova formulas for the first time yesterday when posted. Great formulas!!! Despite recommendation for float=yes I tried float=no too, with continuous potential on. Here are 3 examples. Gedeon gfpnova4-01 {; 0:00:36.96 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Nova4 center-mag=3.749e-005/-1.27e-005/0.3729869 params=0/0/1e-007/0 potential=255/255/0 colors=00040z00zM5f<21>eTufUveTv<22>M5fLFM<13>f`hhbjgah<14>LFM30g<22>b`z\ <23>30gW0z<14>00W<15>W0zLFM<13>f`hhbjgah<14>LFMKJQ<12>dcieejddi<14>KJQ00\ z<14>z0z<13>80z } gfpnova4-02 {; 0:01:12.56 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Nova4 passes=1 center-mag=-0.419969/8.97945e-005/5.045281/0.8278/-90 params=3/0/1e-007/0 maxiter=1023 potential=255/255/0 colors=000f_W<6>mfangbnfa<38>C85K0D000<14>000100301<28>t0Kv0Lv0L<45>K0DD\ EI<37>fglghmfgl<38>DEIC85<28>eZV } gfpnovena-01 {; 0:01:58.69 reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=nova.frm formulaname=Novena passes=t center-mag=0.138403/1.49609/6.666813 params=0.51/0/1e-007/0 maxiter=1023 fillcolor=222 potential=255/255/0 colors=000MMJ<9>776W00<14>z00<15>W00688<22>chh<23>68800z<6>0zz<7>00zDBE<\ 21>daeebfdae<22>DBEWG0<6>zW0<7>WG08CE<22>bir<23>8CE776<21>ffa<12>OOL } - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:30:23 -0300 (ADT) From: mctaylor Subject: Re: (fractint) printing fractint On Fri, 24 Oct 1997, kathy roth wrote: > chaos and to go review some college math. Do you have suggestions about where to find > basic information on using a formula or giving a command string etc. I have been > reading the spanky pages. Thanks. First off, please use word wrap, it eliminates a lot of headaches for those of us using text-oriented mail clients. For what book, I suggest browsing the sci.fractals FAQ, under "I want to learn more about fractals..." http://www.mta.ca/~mctaylor/sci.fractals-faq/learn.html The way to start with writing your own formulas, is "playing," which is an advanced scienitific technique used by the best fractogists. :) 1) Just start playing. 2) Don't use your computer for anything else, that would slow down your explorations. 3) Just keep playing. - -- Michael C. Taylor Programmer, Computing Services, Mount Allison University, Canada sci.fractals FAQ fractal and cryptography archive - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:24:13 PST From: NOEL_GIFFIN Subject: RE: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Why would anyone ever want to use jpeg to store fractal images if PNG format is available. For me the most interesting thing about fractals is the very fine detail that can be produced. If you store the image as a Jpeg at standard compression (70-80%) then much of this detail is masked or fudged by the artifacts induced by the jpeg format. Lossless Jpeg is relatively unavailable and is no better at compressing then anything else. A lot of work went into creating the PNG graphic standard to ensure that it met the needs for a wide variety of image types and that it remained royalty free. Why not use it? Noel Giffin - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:49:49 -0400 From: Gedeon Peteri Subject: (fractint) problem with par files I noticed that I get par files posted by others as well as my own with some lines, particularly the color lines, double spaced. My own par files I posted just a short time ago looked fine here when I sent them, but when the list returned them to me, some of the lines were double spaced. Fractint will not recognize the colors if copied in this way. I had to go and delete the empty lines, then everything worked just fine. Surely this is no big deal, but I am wondering if there is a way around this, or whether others are experiencing similar problems too. Would it not be better, for example, to post parameter files as an attachment? Generally speaking, what is the form of posting preferred by the list? Gedeon - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:59:05 +2 From: "J.P. Louvet" Subject: Re: (fractint) Fractint v19.6 Windows 95 le 21 Oct 97 a 20:39, R. J. Jonker ecrivait (R. J. Jonker wrote) : > Whenever I try to run Fractint under windows 95(B), (in a maxized window > of course) and use a Vesa screen mode (e.g. 800X600; 256 colors) it seems > to complete the image and then braeks off. The ever lovely(?) windows > tells me: This program cannot be restarted (excuses for the probably > akward translation of a Dutch message) In other words under windows i can > use fractin only withe the normal VGA standards. When i make a special > DOS-session, I hav no problems. My question: Is this normal behavior of > fractint or should I somewhere in Windows change some setting? Hoping for > an answer Roelof Jonker > I think that it is a problem with the graphic card : I have had no problem with Cirrus Logic cards, but some S3 cards (S3 Trio if I remember) can only be used with Fractint in a true Dos session, and not in a Dos session under Windows 95 (whatever settings you choose the this session). I have changed my card... some (many ?) cards are only partially VESA compatible. - --------------------------------------------------------------- J.P. Louvet | Phone : (33)56-84-58-35 IUT Universite Bordeaux I | Fax : (33)56-84-58-29 33405 Talence CEDEX France | e-mail : louvet@iuta.u-bordeaux.fr - --------------------------------------------------------------- Fractales sur serveur Web Universite Bordeaux I : http://graffiti.cribx1.u-bordeaux.fr/MAPBX/louvet/jpl0.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:55:32 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) problem with par files In article <3450DFBD.3D208EAD@infoave.net> , Gedeon Peteri writes: > Generally speaking, what is the form of posting preferred by the list? I'll let Tim set the tone for the list as a whole, but I suggested posting PAR files as attachments on fractal-art and the subscribers there shot it down. Apparently people prefer the tedious hand-editing you've described. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:16:52 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments Gedeon wrote >I noticed that I get par files posted by others as well as my own with some lines, particularly the color lines, double spaced. I bet that is the word wrap function, Michael Taylor wrote that he liked word wrap on so his end is easier. I suspect word wrap is what messes up par and formula posts. > Would it not be better, for example, to post parameter files as an attachment? Generally speaking, what is the form of posting preferred by the list? I prefer inline posting, not attachments. Attachments often loose their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing derived work. No matter how you do it, there is some editing involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable form. Another $.03 worth, Jay - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 12:21:11 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments In article <8825653A.00637A6F.00@NOTESGW.NOSC.MIL> , "Jay Hill" writes: > I prefer inline posting, not attachments. Attachments often loose > their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing > derived work. No matter how you do it, there is some editing > involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable > form. The obvious thing is to include comments in your par/frm/etc. files if you want attribution. If done properly, attachments require NO editing at all, which is the whole point of attachments! - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:19:03 +0100 From: Chris DiPetta Subject: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards Has anyone ever gotten the special Matrox Millenium graphics modes to work? I believe they have color depth selections of 16 and 24 bits, but I've only gotten monochrome, if anything at all. - -Chris DiPetta - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Kaplan Subject: Re: (fractint) Word wrap and attachments > "Jay Hill" writes: > > I prefer inline posting, not attachments. Attachments often loose > > their authorship and origin info, then we have trouble attributing > > derived work. No matter how you do it, there is some editing > > involved in storing this list info and keeping it in a recoverable > > form. The normal reason to avoid attachments is that some readers may be unable to use them- most often because they have e-mail accounts in locations where they can't store files, or can't retrieve them if they do store them. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:32:25 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Why use JPEG? Because quite simply, sometimes disk space or transmission time is more important than accuracy. Especially true if one can include the PAR settings as a text comment, then any viewer who really wants the accuracy can load the image into fractint and force a recalc. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:48:09 -0400 From: nick.grasso@hrads.com (Grasso, Nick) Subject: Re: (fractint) Matrox Millenium Cards At 07:19 PM 10/24/97 +0100, Chris DiPetta wrote: >Has anyone ever gotten the special Matrox Millenium graphics modes to work? >I believe they have color depth selections of 16 and 24 bits, but I've only >gotten monochrome, if anything at all. The only Millenium specific mode in fractint is 'Millenium VESA Mode' (1600x1200x256), which works fine for me. There are several 'VESA True-Color' modes in FRACTINT.CFG, but they are for developer testing only. Currently, fractint doesn't support any color mode greater than 8 bit. Nick - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:05:48 -0700 From: "Jay Hill" Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Rich Thomson wrote: > then any viewer who really wants the accuracy can > load the image into fractint and force a recalc. To make this really work, the image file would need to include the formula file if 'non-standard'. I've seen some neato images and tried to recalc only to find the formula was unknown. It would be nice to store equivalent of par and frm file info and comments like authorship. Then these should be viewable from Fractint. Jay - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:14:45 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals In article <8825653A.006E057C.00@NOTESGW.NOSC.MIL> , "Jay Hill" writes: > To make this really work, the image file would need to > include the formula file if 'non-standard'. I've seen some > neato images and tried to recalc only to find the formula > was unknown. > > It would be nice to store equivalent of par and frm > file info and comments like authorship. Then these > should be viewable from Fractint. There's no reason all of these things couldn't be included in every fractint saved image. No reason that is, except programmer time and available memory in the medium programming model :) - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:19:02 -0700 (MST) From: Kerry Mitchell Subject: (fractint) nova-type formulas Here are two variations of the nova formulas, one Julia-type and one Mandelbrot type. They both solve z^n = 1 by Newton's method, and add c to the new iterate each time. The exponent n is entered by parameter; it's slower than a specific z^3 or z^4 formula, but it also supports fractional exponents. I've also made the Fractint variable z to be the change in the iterate (which is zc), instead of the iterate itself. For standard Newton fractals, this allows the iteration bands to be colored using the decomp coloring option. Also included here is a sample par file, using the Julia formula. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kerry Mitchell lkmitch@primenet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- novan_jul { ; Kerry Mitchell ; variation on Paul Derbyshire's nova formula, Julia-type ; Newton method for zc^n = 1, adding c each time ; beginning value of zc = pixel, c = p1 ; inverse bailout = real(p2), exponent = imag(p2) ; z = change in zc each iteration c=p1, zc=pixel, r=real(p2), nm1=imag(p2)-1, fac=1/(nm1+1): fp=zc^nm1, f=zc*fp-1, z=fac*f/fp+c, zc=zc-z, |z| > r } novan_man { ; Kerry Mitchell ; variation on Paul Derbyshire's nova formula, Mandelbrot-type ; Newton method for zc^n = 1, adding c each time. ; beginning value of zc = p1, c = pixel ; inverse bailout = real(p2), exponent = imag(p2) ; z = change of zc each iteration zc=p1, c=pixel, r=real(p2), nm1=imag(p2)-1, fac=1/(nm1+1): fp=zc^nm1, f=zc*fp-1, z=fac*f/fp+c, zc=zc-z, |z| > r } test { reset=1960 type=formula formulafile=fractint.frm formulaname=novan_jul center-mag=-0.621285/0/0.9712963/1.0667 params=-1/0/1e-006/6 float=y maxiter=1000 inside=0 decomp=256 periodicity=0 viewwindows=1/0.8/yes/0/0 colors=000<40>x00z00z00<40>zy0zz0zz1<39>zzxzzzzzz<40>1zz0zz0yz<39>02z00z\ 00z<41>000 cyclerange=0/255 } - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:13:45 PST From: NOEL_GIFFIN Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Steven Covey wrote: > Why use JPEG? Because quite simply, sometimes disk space or > transmission time is more important than accuracy. Especially true > if one can include the PAR settings as a text comment, then any viewer > who really wants the accuracy can load the image into fractint and > force a recalc. Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications that will convert to jpeg format if you want it. The problem is you can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail with lossy compression. If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint then recalculating the image as you suggest wouldn't really improve the accuracy. Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving and restoring partial images. With GIF and PNG it is easy to load and restart calculation, but I suspect JPG format would have some difficulty with this. Noel Giffin - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:40:55 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals In article <009BC407.1F40B060.2533@triumf.ca> , NOEL_GIFFIN writes: > Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications > that will convert to jpeg format if you want it. If I'm storing images on my web site, having the user convert them to JPEG after they've downloaded them misses the point of the better compression of JPEG. It doesn't save me any disk space and it didn't save them any time downloading. > The problem is you > can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail > with lossy compression. Yes you can if you recompute the image. Nobody is saying that you have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use JPEG aren't useful. > If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint [...] There seems to be this underlying assumption that fractint can only deal with one image format. This is silly. There isn't any reason why fractint couldn't support JPEG, GIF and PNG. No reason except the medium memory model under DOS, that is. > Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving > and restoring partial images. So don't use JPEG for that. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:49:06 PST From: NOEL_GIFFIN Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals Steve Covey wrote in response to: > In article <009BC407.1F40B060.2533@triumf.ca> , > NOEL_GIFFIN writes: >> Well that's all fine but there are hundreds of applications >> that will convert to jpeg format if you want it. > > If I'm storing images on my web site, having the user convert them to > JPEG after they've downloaded them misses the point of the better > compression of JPEG. It doesn't save me any disk space and it didn't > save them any time downloading. Note that I said "if you want to", the implication being that you could convert any image to jpg and store it at your site for download. This would save your diskspace and the download time. This is still not a substantial argument for adding the format to fractint. > >> The problem is you >> can't ever really go back the other way once you've given up detail >> with lossy compression. > Yes you can if you recompute the image. Nobody is saying that you > have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use > JPEG aren't useful. Actually you are misquoting me here. My original statement was phrased as a question, although I admit my punctuation was wrong. Also it was made within the context of this subject heading, "Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals", and I still believe that this isn't the best format for fractal images. > >> If jpeg is the graphic format adopted by fractint [...] > > There seems to be this underlying assumption that fractint can only > deal with one image format. This is silly. There isn't any reason > why fractint couldn't support JPEG, GIF and PNG. No reason except the > medium memory model under DOS, that is. Well there is also the work involved in adding parameter blocks, possibly formula blocks, and duplicating this structure in all file formats, debugging, etc... Fractint is complicated enough. Unless jpeg adds some functionality unavailable elsewhere or provides some useful utility, it wouldn't be high on my priority list if I was doing the work. I'm not, so my opinion isn't that important. > >> Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving >> and restoring partial images. > So don't use JPEG for that. But if it isn't capable of this, is it really worth adding? Noel - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:13:13 -0400 (EDT) From: BillatNY@aol.com Subject: (fractint) Potential Max Color Problem Hi! I'm having a problem running Fractint 19.6 under Windows 95. The Potential Max Color , Slope, Bailout options (the Y options) do not seem to work. I've tried running the program in a DOS window and running it in DOS mode. Same problem either way. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. Bill Rossi http://members.aol.com/billatny/fractopi.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 16:24:15 -0600 From: Rich Thomson Subject: Re: (fractint) JPEG suitability for fractals In article <009BC414.70CC9F40.2777@triumf.ca> , NOEL_GIFFIN writes: > > Yes you can if you recompute the image. Nobody is saying that you > > have to use JPEG, but blanket statements that one should NEVER use > > JPEG aren't useful. > Actually you are misquoting me here. Actually I'm not quoting you at all, which is why there's no >'s quoting you as saying that. > I still believe that [JPEG] isn't the best format for fractal images. And naturally you are entitled to your opinion, but its just your opinion. Other people have different opinions. JPEG is a very common file format now; more prevalent than GIF files. Lots of people like the small file sizes of JPEG and don't mind the compression artifacts. Once the medium memory model is gone in fractint, there isn't any technical barrier to adding JPEG support for file I/O. > Well there is also the work involved in adding parameter blocks, > possibly formula blocks, and duplicating this structure in all file > formats, debugging, etc... There is nothing special about JPEG in this respect. Adding any new feature to fractint requires debugging, etc. As for adding the parameter blocks, etc., all the code to do that is already there, its just not applied to JPEG output. > >> Using jpeg would also cause problems with saving > >> and restoring partial images. > > > So don't use JPEG for that. > But if it isn't capable of this, is it really worth adding? I thought about it a little more and you CAN finish a partially computed image that was stored as JPEG. There is nothing in JPEG that would prevent this capability. There's nothing different from GIF in this respect. To summarize, all the things we now do with GIF images can be done with JPEG images. Yes, JPEG achieves its compression by doing lossy compression. If you want lossless images, then use another format. Give the artist/user tools, not rules. - -- ``Between stimulus and response is the will to choose.'' -- Steven Covey =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 3D Paint: The Power to Create in 3D; Rich Thomson email me for more info rthomson@ptc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ Thanks for using Fractint, The Fractals and Fractint Discussion List Post Message: fractint@xmission.com Get Commands: majordomo@xmission.com "help" Administrator: twegner@phoenix.net Unsubscribe: majordomo@xmission.com "unsubscribe fractint" ------------------------------ End of fractint Digest V1 #38 ***************************** To subscribe to fractint Digest, send the command: subscribe fractint-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". 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