From: Eric Herrmann Subject: (glencook-fans) Date: 06 May 2001 20:54:36 -0600 >From dandean@optonline.net Sun May 06 17:45:23 2001 Received: from [167.206.5.17] (helo=mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14wYDK-0006Wv-00 for glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 6 May 2001 17:45:22 -0600 Received: from dan (ool-18bbf809.dyn.optonline.net [24.187.248.9]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.0 Patch 2 (built Dec 14 2000)) with SMTP id <0GCX00BDQTV8D0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for glencook-fans-digest@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 06 May 2001 19:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-id: <000e01c31429$903653c0$09f8bb18@dan> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to have missed a few things and its driving me nuts. My questions: 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or who? 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not? 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more bizarre? If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! -dan --Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to have missed a few things and its driving me nuts.

My questions:

1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or who?

2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not?

3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more bizarre?

If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!

-dan

--Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg)-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Date: 07 May 2001 00:28:26 -0300 Eric Herrmann wrote: > > Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but > I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone > could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to > have missed a few things and its driving me nuts. > I'll try to avoid spoilers. > My questions: > 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they > work for Raker, or the Limper or who? > "The Rebel" - the term covers a wide variety of factions that is fighting the Lady's empire. Everywhere she expands she displaces the power structure that's there and they try to fight her. It's a lot like the French Resistance - historically there were dozens of groups in France offering resistance to the German occupation but they get lumped together in one group. They (the Rebel) are united in hatred of the empire, and that's it. If they won they'd probably fight among themselves for power. They scheme among themselves - they have factions and the leaders of each faction wants more power. They have a command structure, but it isn't as unified as the lady's. The book doesn't really give much details about this, but if you read between the lines it's there. Raker is one of the generals who leads the rebels in the North. As long as he's winning people will support him. The Limper tries to use the Rebels to score points. If he can beat them he'll be happy. If he can help them hurt his rival Soulcatcher he'll be happy. He sees the Black Company as Soulcatcher's pawn, and wants them to fail so Soulcatcher will be in disgrace. > 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league > with the Taken or not? > The White Rose... Later in the book the White Rose is explained. It's the name of a great general who (about 400 years ago) defeated the Dominator, The Lady, and the Ten who were Taken; overturning their empire she found she couldn't kill them so buried them. The Lady and the Ten were later freed and started rebuilding the Empire. It's prophesized that since the evil powers she defeat have risen again that she will be reborn to lead the struggle against the Lady and her Empire. Since the Black Company is a tool of the Empire it looks like the White Rose (if she exists in more than legends) will stand against them. > 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are > they something much more bizarre? > Um, that's debatable. Way back when, during a high age of Magic, a wizard who called him self "The Dominator" (because he liked running things) went after other wizards. He found ten who were near demigods in their power and, well TOOK them. They became his creatures. He owned them body and soul. There was another who was a bit too powerful for him to take, so he married her and made her his Lady. Did the Taking process add to their powers, or were they just kick ass wizards with lots of power? Who's to say. Their power and magical knowledge is matched by few today - during the struggle Cooks names maybe half a dozen rebels with the power level of the Take (say Raker, Whisper, and a few others), but other than that people quake in their boots when the Taken are around. Each of the Taken is different, but most can be seen as bizarre. Each spent 400 years in the ground - and most look it. With most of them their faces (when seen) are faces that have clearly seen the inside of the grave. The early ones mentioned? Soulcatcher - who is said to speak with the voices of men whose souls she has stolen. The Limper - described as someone who would torture babies for fun. Shapeshifter - a weird looking creature who can shift shapes, and has a staff shaped like an enlongated woman - rumoured to be his ex-wife who cheated on him way back when. All of them can fit the bill as villains- wonderful, awful, horrible villains. Having such well defined bad guys make the series. As for the company, well, there is no black and white in the series, only shades of grey. Hope this helped. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amy Weathers" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Date: 06 May 2001 21:56:03 -0600 I haven't posted in a while, so I'll tackle a couple of these and leave some for the rest of you all. :) > >Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but >I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone >could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to >have missed a few things and its driving me nuts. > >2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league >with the Taken or not? The white rose is a person who in years long past, helped to defeat The Lady and her nastey other half. So the Whote rose would be the enemy of the Lady and her minions. Unless of course the minions wanted her dead ... in which case the white rose would just be a useful tool of the Taken. >3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are >they something much more bizarre? They are wizards, they are something much more bizarre. All the Taken are very powerful wizards in their own right, however when they were made into 'the taken' they became the subservent minions to the Lady, or her husband. Since their release, they all work for the Lady ... or to further their own means. >If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! >-dan > Those are a couple quick answers to what are some deep questions. And they are or course my own personal opinions as well. Enjoy the books. :) Amy (thinking of re-readign them again) ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amy Weathers" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Date: 06 May 2001 21:56:03 -0600 I haven't posted in a while, so I'll tackle a couple of these and leave some for the rest of you all. :) > >Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but >I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone >could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to >have missed a few things and its driving me nuts. > >2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league >with the Taken or not? The white rose is a person who in years long past, helped to defeat The Lady and her nastey other half. So the Whote rose would be the enemy of the Lady and her minions. Unless of course the minions wanted her dead ... in which case the white rose would just be a useful tool of the Taken. >3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are >they something much more bizarre? They are wizards, they are something much more bizarre. All the Taken are very powerful wizards in their own right, however when they were made into 'the taken' they became the subservent minions to the Lady, or her husband. Since their release, they all work for the Lady ... or to further their own means. >If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! >-dan > Those are a couple quick answers to what are some deep questions. And they are or course my own personal opinions as well. Enjoy the books. :) Amy (thinking of re-readign them again) ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Date: 06 May 2001 22:16:38 -0600 with ESMTP id f4738uO18814 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 20:08:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: bolt.sonic.net: somebody owned process doing -bs X-Sender: somebody@bolt.sonic.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: glencook-fans series? I mean do the 2 Cook series actually take place on the 'world'? I seem to recall hearing about the fivrolocka guys in the Garrett books (well one of 'em). It's also possible that one of the wars that we hear about in the Black Company could be the Cantard from Garrett... Dunno. Does anyone have any ideas one way or the other? -tm ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Date: 06 May 2001 22:21:18 -0600 (8.11.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id f4738uO18814 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 20:08:56 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: bolt.sonic.net: somebody owned process doing -bs X-Sender: somebody@bolt.sonic.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: glencook-fans series? I mean do the 2 Cook series actually take place on the 'world'? I seem to recall hearing about the fivrolocka guys in the Garrett books (well one of 'em). It's also possible that one of the wars that we hear about in the Black Company could be the Cantard from Garrett... Dunno. Does anyone have any ideas one way or the other? -tm ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Dean Subject: (glencook-fans) Help with the first book. Date: 06 May 2001 19:45:24 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi all- I'm a new Cook reader, and I'm enjoying Black Company so far, but I've been confused for a while (I'm on page 175). I was wondering if someone could straighten me out a bit? I'm not that far into the book but I seem to have missed a few things and its driving me nuts. My questions: 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or who? 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not? 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more bizarre? If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! -dan --Boundary_(ID_jvmOAj48Hacx4LA0LzOuDg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

My questions:

1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they work for Raker, or the Limper or who?

2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league with the Taken or not?

3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are they something much more bizarre?

If you can help me out a bit- Thanks!

-dan

======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Help with the first book. Date: 07 May 2001 02:49:17 -0500 Dan, Dangerous, asking questions about the book you're reading :) I'll see what I can do that is likely to help your appreciation but not spoil anything for you. "The Rebel" is the what the BC calls anyone opposed to their employer, the Lady--i.e., anyone rebelling against her extension of her Empire. Organization is sketchy; we get glimpses of it, but not much more than that. We're watching from the point of view of just one company of the Lady's front-line troops, not people who are entirely in the know on the political organization of The Opposition. The White Rose is an enigma, a legend--and the name of the third volume! So you can pretty well guess that she's going to play a Very Important Role that you don't want to hear about before reading it in sequence. The Taken are a bit more than "just some really powerful and feared wizard", at least in reputation--they are legendary, names you frighten children with. The fact that they are now returned *out of their graves* (more or less) adds a great deal of extra horror to how they are seen by the populace. Add in the fact that several (most?) of them are Genuinely Weird if you meet them up close and personal, and you begin to get a feeling for the kind of terror their very names strike. How much do they live up to these reputations? Well, Soul-Catcher and Limper certainly are enough to give anyone the heebie-jeebies. But the only ones we get to see in detailsare those the Company runs into. A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations? I don't know that this is ever answered. And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come together? Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 07 May 2001 11:28:40 -0300 Steve Harris wrote: > > > . . . . . . . If you're just starting the books you don't want to read this. It touches most (including the most recent) of the books. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have > wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live > long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations? > I don't know that this is ever answered. > My view is that two of the Circle of 18 (Whisper and the General who gets taken out during the battle of Charm) rank up there with the Ten. Soulcatcher points out that Whisper is, and they need four Taken to remove the General. From what I can tell the age that saw the rise of the Dominator, Lady, and Ten was an age of high magic and lore where those with talent got trained, and the top twelve of the generation are all that survived. How important is training? Look at a minor character in the second book - Whisper looks at her and says the Lady will be very interested in her. She latter ends up as Shapeshifter's apprentice - and if her mentor wasn't killed might have reached his level of power. Even half trained she was someone who gave One Eye and Goblin nightmares. And her talent was almost waisted. She could have died from hunger in the slums of Jupiter, been knifed by a lover, or gone her whole live without training. > And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come > around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that > made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced > development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come together? > I think so - that the culture was one of decadence where an ambitious girl could drown her twin sister when she'd 14 and still achive power (lack of humanity). That magical training was common, and gifted students were sought out (combining the raw talent with advanced training). Then again, maybe it's just having near ultimate power. Look at Soldiers Live. You got a boy with power. He's on the edge of manhood, been trained by several different people, but is more or less a good boy. Kind of a nice guy. A nice guy discovering that there may be no limit on his power. Dad dies? Make the bastards who did it pay and pay and pay - and there's no immediate payback. At some point he has to know that people know he did it and they aren't doing anything about it because he's too useful to the War. Or maybe it's that he's too powerful for them to stop? Maybe they all secretly fear his power? Talk about a head trip - and we're talking about someone who is nice to start with, raised by those who knew he would be a power. I'm pretty sure there's a point in Soldiers Live where the Lady puts the temptation of power in words - think it was when they were discussing if a certain nice guy's mother would drag her son's spirit into the lands of the dead to stop him from going bad. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other Date: 07 May 2001 17:34:19 -0500 Richard, Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever really do very much.) But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister, probably more powerful than any of the other Taken. Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.) Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jerry Higgins" Subject: (glencook-fans) Just curious Date: 07 May 2001 20:11:01 -0500 Does anyone know if Mr. Glen Cook reads this mailing list? If so, perhaps he might do some stories of former Company members (and enemies) who simply wandered off after one book or another or (more exactly) were never killed? I'd just like to know.... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:34 PM > Richard, > > Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This > letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live". > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely > fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be > a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she > doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much > more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the > Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever > really do very much.) > > But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister, > probably more powerful than any of the other Taken. > > Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you > want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and > Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some > amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best > example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not > even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help > with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.) > > Steve > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John C. DeSimone, Jr." Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other Date: 07 May 2001 18:51:10 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:34 PM > Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This > letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live". > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you > want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and > Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some > amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best > example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not > even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help > with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.) > > Steve I think One-Eye and Goblin explained it to Croaker once. To paraphrase, they said it was a matter of degrees, and the higher your degree, the more you could get done at one time. So basically, they could do anything Lady could, but it would take an impossibly long time. So essentially, you are right. More powerful wizards can simply do more, and quicker. Jay ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Spoiler for "Soldiers Live" and other Date: 07 May 2001 23:48:27 -0300 Stacey Harris wrote: > > Richard, > > Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This > letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live". > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely > fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be > a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she > doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much > more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the > Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever > really do very much.) > I think she did have ambitions at one time, but lost them through an eon long rivalry with her sister. At the start of the Black Company book, she wants what her sister has (the Empire). During the Books of the South she wants what her sister has (Croker). During the Glitter Stone series, at first she wants what her sister has (rulership of the southern empire), but once she has it she doesn't know what to do with it. Near the end she realizes she just wants / needs her sister to be her mirror. > But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister, > probably more powerful than any of the other Taken. > Among the top ones at least - but no one echoed the Limper's resilence and his magic had to be the source of that. Perhaps the Taken were the top wizards of different traditions: Shapeshift the best of the wizards who used shapeshifting magic, Stormbringer the best of the weather control wizards, Limber the best of the war like / battle resistant school (maybe the Hanged Man was one of those?), Bonecrusher the best of the body enhancing school of magic, etc. If that was the case then the Lady and Soulcatcher's magic were the most similiar. > Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you > want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and > Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some > amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best > example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not > even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help > with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.) > At one point there's talk of talents having an order of magnitude - that it would take One Eye 10 or 100 (maybe a thousand) times the effort to achive the same affect that the Lady could acomplish. As for that spear - how many years went into it? How many with both One Eye and Goblin working on it? The Lady or Soulcatcher in their Prime could probably have swatted that were leopard in an instant where they spent years to achive it. That line of power that hits the Castle in Shadows Linger - that's power when you need it. Course, that's just my opinion. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lynn Sellers" Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Just curious Date: 08 May 2001 15:55:29 -0500 I don't think Glen does computers. -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 08:11 PM Does anyone know if Mr. Glen Cook reads this mailing list? If so, perhaps he might do some stories of former Company members (and enemies) who simply wandered off after one book or another or (more exactly) were never killed? I'd just like to know.... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 5:34 PM > Richard, > > Spoiler space for those just getting into the Black Company. This > letter includes discussion of "Soliders Live". > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > I think of Soul-Catcher as Very Powerful, someone who would be extremely > fearsome out there in the world, if she actually had the ambition to be > a Ruler of a large domain. (Fortunately for the world at large, she > doesn't maintain any large ambitions; she flits with the wind.) Much > more powerful than just about anyone else we see, except from the > Shadowlands. (I'm not sure we ever see the Limper, for instance, ever > really do very much.) > > But Soul-Catcher is supposed to be nearly as powerful as her sister, > probably more powerful than any of the other Taken. > > Here's a supposition: Power really resides in being able to do what you > want *now*, as opposed to being able just to do stuff. One-Eye and > Goblin, for all that they say they're just pip-squeaks, really do some > amazing things--so long as they have a really long time to prep. Best > example is One-Eye's spear--he takes out a God, fer gosh' sake! Not > even Lady ever did anything as dramatic as that. (Well, there was help > with the exploding broomstick and all; but it's still damned impressive.) > > Steve > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph McGrath" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 08 May 2001 18:56:56 -0000 Well said Richard... spoilers... About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland to try to milk knowledge from Lady? Raven wrote about there being a secret school within a school. The black society or something? Obviously because Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out. Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or something. I think that the school was in Opal. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 2:28 PM > > Steve Harris wrote: > > > > > > > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > If you're just starting the books you don't want to read this. It > touches most (including the most recent) of the books. > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > A Really Interesting question is this: Does every generation have > > wizards comparable to those of the Taken? Or did the Dominator live > > long enough to scoop up the Best and the Darkest over many generations? > > I don't know that this is ever answered. > > > > My view is that two of the Circle of 18 (Whisper and the General who > gets taken out during the battle of Charm) rank up there with the Ten. > Soulcatcher points out that Whisper is, and they need four Taken to > remove the General. > From what I can tell the age that saw the rise of the Dominator, Lady, > and Ten was an age of high magic and lore where those with talent got > trained, and the top twelve of the generation are all that survived. > > How important is training? Look at a minor character in the second book > - Whisper looks at her and says the Lady will be very interested in > her. She latter ends up as Shapeshifter's apprentice - and if her > mentor wasn't killed might have reached his level of power. Even half > trained she was someone who gave One Eye and Goblin nightmares. > And her talent was almost waisted. She could have died from hunger in > the slums of Jupiter, been knifed by a lover, or gone her whole live > without training. > > > And just how often does someone like the Dominator--or the Lady--come > > around?? Was there something in that era, several centuries ago, that > > made it possible for that combination of raw talent, advanced > > development of that talent, and unspeakable lack of humanity all to come together? > > > > I think so - that the culture was one of decadence where an ambitious > girl could drown her twin sister when she'd 14 and still achive power > (lack of humanity). That magical training was common, and gifted > students were sought out (combining the raw talent with advanced > training). > > Then again, maybe it's just having near ultimate power. Look at > Soldiers Live. > You got a boy with power. He's on the edge of manhood, been trained by > several different people, but is more or less a good boy. Kind of a > nice guy. > A nice guy discovering that there may be no limit on his power. Dad > dies? Make the bastards who did it pay and pay and pay - and there's no > immediate payback. At some point he has to know that people know he did > it and they aren't doing anything about it because he's too useful to > the War. Or maybe it's that he's too powerful for them to stop? Maybe > they all secretly fear his power? > > Talk about a head trip - and we're talking about someone who is nice to > start with, raised by those who knew he would be a power. > > I'm pretty sure there's a point in Soldiers Live where the Lady puts the > temptation of power in words - think it was when they were discussing if > a certain nice guy's mother would drag her son's spirit into the lands > of the dead to stop him from going bad. > > Richard > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 08 May 2001 20:10:54 -0300 Joseph McGrath wrote: > > Well said Richard... > spoilers... > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > About the training.... Remember in the letters Raven was writing to Croaker > about Bomanz's early life, before Bomanz decided to move to the barrowland > to try to milk knowledge from Lady? His quest for knowledge was one of his driving goals - in the letters. But those letters were written after his defeat in the barrowlands by someone's kid sister. > Raven wrote about there being a secret > school within a school. The black society or something? Black collage? Unseen Collage? Something like that. > Obviously because > Raven was an alumni himself. And Bomanz was the best that that age put out. > Raven must have heard of Bomanz like he was some kind of legend or > something. I think that the school was in Opal. Bromaz was a legend because of what he did, not because of where he studied. He opened the way for the great evils of yesterday to return. In the letters there was something about the son studying there, and how some of the older masters remembered Bromanz's name. I get the feeling that Bromanz had an old grudge against someone of them - something about those people trembling when they heard that Bromanz had the Lady's secrets. If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken, and way better than those running things after the Lady left. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 08 May 2001 22:59:33 -0500 Richard, (spoiler space on first Black Company books) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things: "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken" I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only once in a millenium or thereabouts. Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe. Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PrimalChrome" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 09 May 2001 08:52:52 -0500 Actually I'd always thought of him as a bit the opposite. The reason he *didn't* end up a Whisper was because he was so successful. Successful in both the arts and in camoflage. In his younger years he was probably a match for any of the middle or lower end Taken. Even in his twilight years he was able to negotiate the Barrowland (the best voodoo security system that could be produced in the age of the Dominator) and go toe to toe with a Dragon. Too many people are remembering Bomanz as just that harmless little archeologist that dug through graves for rusty helms. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:10 PM spoilers > Joseph McGrath wrote: > If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a > post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during > the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken, > and way better than those running things after the Lady left. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 09 May 2001 18:26:17 +0200 > 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they > work for Raker, or the Limper or who? They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid, totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool them, but in general there is a war. > > 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league > with the Taken or not? She is always an enemy of the empire. > > 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or are > they something much more bizarre? Wizards, naturally ;) > > If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! No problem. > -dan Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 09 May 2001 12:45:40 -0500 Gwen, I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls "the Rebel": "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid, totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool them, but in general there is a war." We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken. (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.) It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid, totalitarian, and hellish. But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy, and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on anyone who opposes you. Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 09 May 2001 19:57:31 +0200 > I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls > "the Rebel": > > "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid, > totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool > them, but in general there is a war." > > We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we > say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically > nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a > ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken. > > (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with > the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just > Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend > to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and > awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.) > > It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that > in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid, > totalitarian, and hellish. But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a > lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy, > and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when > some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for > abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just > expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on > anyone who opposes you. > > Steve > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 09 May 2001 20:10:41 +0200 -- > I think you mis-state things here about what the Black Company calls > "the Rebel": > > "They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid, > totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool > them, but in general there is a war." > > We know of no instance of rebellion during the Domination, so how can we > say the Dominator fooled any rebels? Actually, we know practically > nothing about that period--just that the Dominator ruled things with a > ruthless hand, including getting himself the Taken. It was when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some of the Circle to help his cause, because they thought they could use him. The first Cronicle. '> > (Was there war during the Domination, much like in the present era with > the Lady's Empire? Or was the Dominator so all-powerful that he just > Stomped on opposition, so there was nothing so organized as war? I tend > to agree with you that there was likely war, probably more ruthless and > awful than the Lady's war; the Dominator wasn't really God-like, I think.) In the same chronicle, the Doctor (I don't know his name in English), specifically says, that what hthe people feared was the coming back of a total system. Or rather, an order of total fear. > > It's probably a good guess (given the Dominator's lack of humanity) that > in the era of the Domination, the Dominator's rule was horrid, > totalitarian, and hellish. But in the era of the Lady's rule, that's a > lot less clear. She actually sets up a pretty efficient bureaucracy, > and we don't see any specific cruelty under her reign, except for when > some of her soldiers (notably those under the Limper) get a taste for > abusing civilians. Probably the main Evil she represents is just > expanding her Empire in standard imperial manner--i.e., make war on > anyone who opposes you. Yes, this is what makes the chronicles so juicy, this understatement of moral descriptions- the Company is a bunch of rapists and beasts, except for the commanders. The Lady is a good manager, and is able to love. This hint of a horrid past is a very probable thread. People tend to forget the details of the past, keeping in their memory only a sketch of the situation- if it is not too personal. So putting the great evil in the past is very probable, because if closer looked at, it may show other facets. We know that the Dominator was a very powerful magician, and a great general- he was winning for a long time, till his power was nullified. It's like the guns suddenly just stopped shooting- find me a general who can immediately win in a world without ranged weapons nowadays.. Ant the great evil in the south doesn't ruin my interpretation- the more facts Glen gives, the more tangible Kina looks. She was sent on a mission, right? Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Igor Filippov Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 09 May 2001 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT) The Empire was "such a horrid totalitarian hell" ????? I had an impression that was what rebel propaganda tried to brainwash common folk into thinking. There're plenty of evidence that Lady's leadership was quite beneficial for people in a lot of ways. To name one there's a discussion about cultivating medicinal herbs that made Croaker ask himself - would a total Evil worry about medicine for common people ? Rebels on the other hand weren't shy to employ the very same cruel methods they were accusing Lady of using.... Croaker describes Rebels as anything but sweet idealistic fighters for freedom. So I wouldn't rush to call Lady's Empire a "horrid totalitarian hell" "Totalitarian" - maybe. "Hell" it was not. Igor On Wed, 9 May 2001, gwen wrote: > > 1- Who exactly are the Rebel? Are they just against the empire or do they > > work for Raker, or the Limper or who? > > They are and always been against the empire, because it's such a horrid, > totalitarian hell. The Taken may use some of them, or the Dominator can fool > them, but in general there is a war. > > > > 2- Is the White Rose an enemy of the Company or not? Is the Rose in league > > with the Taken or not? > > She is always an enemy of the empire. > > > > 3- The Taken... are they just some really powerful and feared wizards or > are > > they something much more bizarre? > > Wizards, naturally ;) > > > > If you can help me out a bit- Thanks! > > No problem. > > > -dan > Gwen > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Igor Filippov Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 09 May 2001 15:25:11 -0400 (EDT) About 'periodicity of Domination' - In the first few books it's mentioned quite a few times (though never really explained if it's a myth or a fact) that rises and falls of the Dominator(s) are related to the passing of the comet. Every 20-40 years (I don't remember exactly) it passes Earth (or whatever the planet might be called) and every 400 years it comes very close to the planet. Then, somewhere in one of the latest books there's a discussion about the ways to get rid of a wizard the scale of Dominator - "you can put his soul in a metal spike, bury it under a Tree-God from another dimension or throw it at a passing comet" - again, don't remember exact words, but there was mentioning of a comet as a place to bury unwanted extra-powerful wizards. Which brings us to an interesting (to me anyway :) ) conjecture - what if, some time long-long ago some ancient Dominator, the very first of its kind, was buried in a comet, and that is why we have waves of Dominators coming with a period of 400 years along with the comet. Does it sound like a possible scenario ? Igor On Tue, 8 May 2001, Stacey Harris wrote: > Richard, > > (spoiler space on first Black Company books) > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > . > . > . > . > . > > Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things: > > "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a > post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during > the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken" > > I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how > often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm > not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black > Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the > North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty > Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only > once in a millenium or thereabouts. > > Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad > Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe. > > Steve > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: (glencook-fans) names Date: 09 May 2001 16:25:45 -0500 Gwen, Ah, right you are; I forgot about that: "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some of the Circle to help his cause" On names of characters: "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)" He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically, in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die". What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are the chief ones in my count: Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) One-Eye (black wizard) Goblin (short white wizard) Silent (tall white wizard) Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) the Lady (later called just "Lady") Sleepy (in the later books) It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in other languages. I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the Lieutenant"). Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gray Lowell Subject: Fwd: (glencook-fans) names Date: 09 May 2001 14:34:31 -0700 > On Wednesday, May 9, 2001, at 02:25 PM, Stacey Harris wrote: >> >> What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are >> the chief ones in my count: >> >> Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) >> One-Eye (black wizard) >> Goblin (short white wizard) >> Silent (tall white wizard) >> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) >> the Lady (later called just "Lady") >> Sleepy (in the later books) >> >> It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in >> other languages. >> >> I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like >> "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the >> Lieutenant"). >> > > add to that > > darling > big bucket > mercy > tom-tom > smoke > > frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph McGrath" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 09 May 2001 18:07:17 -0000 I believe the reason Croaker is called Croaker is that he is a physician. During primitive times you usually died when they had to call the doctor. Hence, Croaker is slang for Doctor. People were deathly afraid of doctors because when someone called the doctor it meant you were on the way out. When you read, "The Garrett Files," There is something about, when you get sent to the Bledsoe charity hospital you never leave except for a one way trip to the boneyard. spoilers... Recall how Croaker is always bemoaning the fact that he doesn't do near as much as he could for the wounded. But! If he had a good team of compitent surgeons he would have, "a good chance of doing some good for a change." (Battle at the Stair of Tear.) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:25 PM > Gwen, > > Ah, right you are; I forgot about that: > > "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some > of the Circle to help his cause" > > On names of characters: > > "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)" > > He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically, > in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die". > > What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are > the chief ones in my count: > > Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) > One-Eye (black wizard) > Goblin (short white wizard) > Silent (tall white wizard) > Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) > the Lady (later called just "Lady") > Sleepy (in the later books) > > It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in > other languages. > > I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like > "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the > Lieutenant"). > > Steve > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wheeler, Brooke" Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names Date: 09 May 2001 17:42:01 -0400 FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of like shrink=psychologist. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Stacey Harris Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:26 PM Gwen, Ah, right you are; I forgot about that: "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some of the Circle to help his cause" On names of characters: "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)" He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically, in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die". What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are the chief ones in my count: Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) One-Eye (black wizard) Goblin (short white wizard) Silent (tall white wizard) Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) the Lady (later called just "Lady") Sleepy (in the later books) It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in other languages. I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the Lieutenant"). Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John C. DeSimone, Jr." Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains Date: 09 May 2001 07:54:31 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:59 PM spoilers > Richard, > > (spoiler space on first Black Company books) > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > . > . > . > . > . > > > Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad > Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe. > Yes, along with the thing buried under Old Father Tree. Jay ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David George Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names Date: 09 May 2001 21:25:25 -0500 Like "Tiny" is a nickname for a big fat guy. Like "Curly" is a nickname for a bald guy... -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 4:42 PM FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of like shrink=psychologist. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Stacey Harris Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 2:26 PM Gwen, Ah, right you are; I forgot about that: "when the Dominator was buried in his tomb, and managed to make some of the Circle to help his cause" On names of characters: "the Doctor (I don't know his name in English)" He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically, in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die". What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are the chief ones in my count: Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) One-Eye (black wizard) Goblin (short white wizard) Silent (tall white wizard) Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) the Lady (later called just "Lady") Sleepy (in the later books) It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in other languages. I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the Lieutenant"). Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 01:13:54 -0600 >> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken You asked.... Below are the names for the original Taken from all the editions except Russia. (I don't own the Russian editions.) The challenge is that they are alphabetized. Can anyone correctly identify the Taken for each country? 50 pts possible. (If someone would send me the names from Russia, I'll add them to the challenge.) The names varied in spelling based upon linguistic rules I don't understand and I couldn't preserve the ligatures. My apologies to the various cultures involved. Please send me any corrections. The original Taken in USA/UK are: Bonegnasher Faceless Man Hanged Man Howler Limper Moonbiter Nightcrawler Shapeshifter Soulcatcher Stormbringer The original Taken in Czech are: Beztvarny Kostizer Kulhavec Lovec Dusi Lunohryz Menivec Nocni Slidil Obesenec Vichrice Vyjec The original Taken in French are: l'Anonyme Boiteux Craque-les-Os Croquelune Hurleur Pendu Rode-la-Nuit Seme-Tempete Transformeur Volesprit The original Taken in German are: Formwandler Gehenkte Gesichtslose Heuler Hinker Knochenknirscher Mondbeiser Nachtkriecher Seelenfanger Sturmbringer The original Taken in Lithuanian are: Audronasa Besikeiciantis Beveidis Kaulalauzio Menulio Kandziotojo Naktinis Sliuzas Pakaruoklis Sielagaudys Slubis Staugunas The original Taken in Polish are: Bezgebny Duszolap Gnatozuja Ksiezycogryza Kulawiec Nocny Pelzacz Wisielec Wladczyni Burz Wyjec Zmiennoksztaltny If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many of the company names from "The Black Company". -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Welnicki" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 10:09:35 +0200 > > Gnatozuja- Gnatozuj (not a very big difference but...) > Ksiezycogryza- Ksiezycogryz( the same) And it can be pronounced differently because u dont use the specia etters( hmmm) like z with a dot and so on... Mocker -- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 12:02:59 +0200 The only correction is- Ksiezycogryz, Gnatozuj. You got them all right. > The original Taken in Polish are: > Bezgebny > Duszolap > Gnatozuja > Ksiezycogryza > Kulawiec > Nocny Pelzacz > Wisielec > Wladczyni Burz > Wyjec > Zmiennoksztaltny > > If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many of the company > names from "The Black Company". ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 10 May 2001 12:12:30 +0200 > So I wouldn't rush to call Lady's Empire a "horrid totalitarian hell" > "Totalitarian" - maybe. "Hell" it was not. I was talking about the Dominator, his empire, and his deep buried, still alive person. Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 12:31:19 +0200 > He's called "Croaker". I think we're supposed to read that ironically, > in the sense of "croak" being a slang word for "die". > Hehe, good name for him:) Thank you. > What are all the main characters called in other languages? Here are > the chief ones in my count: Here are the names. I give you also pronounciation clues. I put h after a short vowel. The accent is always at the prior to the last syllable. Hope this helps. > > Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) His name in Polish is Konowal [koh-noh-vaal]- the meaning is the same, but it has another bottom to it- "fond of horses", to put it elegantly. There is another way of referring to a doctor, Lapiduch [wah-pee-dooh -this time h pronounced](Ghostcatcher) , but it would be too similar to Soulcatcher- Duszolap [doo-show-aap]. > One-Eye (black wizard) Jednooki [yad-noh-oh-kee]- One Eyed. > Goblin (short white wizard) Goblin it is. [goh-bleen] > Silent (tall white wizard) Milczek [meal-check :)))]. The original I think would mean "he who is silent", but the translation gives: "won't talk", that gives more expression value to it, I think. > Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) Kruk [krook]. This is actually Crow, because Raven, Wrona [vroh-naa], is originally a genus femininum word. That wouldn't match Raven, I think, though could be percieved ironic. > the Lady (later called just "Lady") Pani [Paanee], and means exactly the same- with a litle change in the cultural line. More like Mistress/ Ma'am. > Sleepy (in the later books) Spioch, Spioszka {ok, this one is tough) [Sh'-pyoh, h pronounced; Sh'-pyoh-shkaa. make the sh very soft, like half sh, half e]- first version is male, second is female. A bit of irony added to the meaning. > > It would be interesting to know what these characters are called in > other languages. > > I think all the other main characters either have personal names (like > "Murgen") or names that translate in obvious ways ("the Captain", "the > Lieutenant"). > You are right, they are. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 12:34:39 +0200 > > add to that > > Ok :) > > darling Cukierek [Tsu-kye-rehk], Candy > > big bucket Kubel [Koo-baw] > > mercy I can't identify anyone under that name. > > tom-tom Tam-tam- the same. > > smoke Same as with mercy > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 12:35:58 +0200 > > Gnatozuja- Gnatozuj (not a very big difference but...) > > Ksiezycogryza- Ksiezycogryz( the same) He means that names ending in a vowel are usually female. Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 12:35:03 +0200 > FYI: In English, "Croaker" is slang for doctor, ironically enough... kind of > like shrink=psychologist. Thank you. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jakub Krzyzan" Subject: (glencook-fans) nie =?iso-8859-2?Q?rozdziobi=B1_nas=2E=2E=2E?= Date: 10 May 2001 13:08:14 +0200 >> Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) >Kruk [krook]. This is actually Crow, because Raven, Wrona [vroh-naa], = is >originally a genus femininum word. That wouldn't match Raven, I think,= >though could be percieved ironic. Pomyli=B3a=B6 si=EA Gwen. Raven to kruk. Crow - wrona. Pozdrawiam, Kuba= ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 05:21:14 -0600 on 5/10/01 4:34 AM, gwen at gwen1@wp.pl wrote: >>> mercy > > I can't identify anyone under that name. I think that would be Laska at the very beginning of Czarna Kompania. -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 05:41:23 -0600 Czech, French, German, Lithuanian, Polish > Croaker (the first-person narrative speaker in the first volumes) Felcare, Toubib, Croaker, Krankly, Konowal > One-Eye (black wizard) Jednooky, Qu'un-CEil, Einauge, Vienaakis, Jednooki > Goblin (short white wizard) Skret, Gobelin, Goblin, Goblinas, Goblin > Silent (tall white wizard) Nemluva, Silence, Schweiger, Tylenis, Milczek > Raven (new fellow in the Company with mysterious background) Havran, Corbeau, Raven, Varnas, Kruk > the Lady (later called just "Lady") Pani, Dame, Lady, Valdove, Pani Others are: Captain Kapitan, Capitaine, Hauptmann, Kapitonu, Kapitan Lieutenant Porucik, Lieutenant, Leutnant, Leitenantas, Porucznik Mercy Soucit, Misericorde, Mercy, Laimingasis, Laska Pawnbroker Lichvar, Mont-de-Piete, Pfandleiher, Palukininkas, Lichwiarz Darling Pusinko, Cherie, Darling, Brangute, Pupilka Elmo Jilmac, Elmo, Elmo, Elmo, Elmo -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Welnicki" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 14:26:14 +0200 > > > smoke I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right? If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :)) Mocker -- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "sluagh" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 17:46:58 +0200 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 12:34 PM > > > > add to that > > > > Ok :) > > > > darling > > Cukierek [Tsu-kye-rehk], Candy > > > > big bucket > > Kubel [Koo-baw] > > > > mercy > > I can't identify anyone under that name. Laska. 1 tom, zaraz na poczatku. Ten, co "obrywal muchom skrzydelka". > > > > tom-tom > > Tam-tam- the same. > > > > smoke > > Same as with mercy Kopec. Ksiegi Poludnia. -- sluagh, Sad Faerie ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 11:06:02 -0500 Gwen, Thanks for the Polish versions of the names! Ravens and crows are very similar birds; I suspect they are closely related. So it's not a terrible translation to give Raven a name which translates more precisely as "crow". However, ravens, in particular, are more associated with battlefields, as eaters of dead bodies, than are crows (though I don't know if this is just myth or an accurate perception), and that is the undertone associated with the name "Raven". Mercy is a minor character; he's called that because he has none :) I think he's in the early books (maybe the second?). Smoke is in the Books of the South; he's the native wizard that the Prahbindradrah has at his disposal. Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stacey Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 11:12:26 -0500 Eric, I think this is quite interesting--but I have linguist stirrings in my heart. So I'd like to see what you've compiled with the Company names, as well. Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) was: Help with the first book - contains spoilers Date: 10 May 2001 13:23:37 -0300 Stacey Harris wrote: > > Richard, > > (spoiler space on first Black Company books) > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > . > . > . > . > . > > Nice speculation there on Bomanz's rank in things: > > "If he'd been more successful, he might have ended up another Whisper - a > post Dominator era wizard who would have been taken if he'd lived during > the Dominion. He was definately better than some of the later Taken" > > I agree. And that gives some measure of answer to my question about how > often a Dominator (or Lady) might arise: Some 4 centuries later (I'm > not certain of the timeline--how long after the Opening does The Black > Company commence?), there is, apparently, only one practitioner in the > North who even comes close to being used in comparison with the Mighty > Ones. So maybe an actual Dominator-level character comes along only > once in a millenium or thereabouts. > I'd say part of the problem is the combination of Talent and Knowledge. Look at Lisa from book 2 - she had the talent to be a top level wizard, but no training. Bomanz - had the talent and some training, enough to know he'd never learn enough to reach the limits of his talents. Hundreds of years after the downfall of the Evil Empire Rule by Magic and the resulting book burning there just wan't enough magically knowledge left in that part of the world for him to expand to his limits. He'd hit a level where he could kill with a word (far beyond One Eye), but that was it. To expand farther he needed a teacher - someone at the level of the Taken or the Lady. Then we have young Tobo - birth prophesized, trained by Goblin, One Eye, The Lady, and a Shadowmaster (think there were a few as well). Mother's line had magic abilities, father's line (a distance one from the north) has some magic (riding Smoke, being a Ghost). With the stuff in Soldiers Live I'd say a whole lot of planning went into to his birth and training - and he had the potencial to be a Dominator level wizard. But what if he's been born without all that planning - in the middle of a farm village where there wasn't even a local wise woman? He could have gone though life without reaching One Eye's level. How many people like Lisa (Taken level talents and no training) have there been? We'll never know. All we do know is that in the time it took the Lady to raise the Empire and set half the world against her there were only 18 wizards with the talents to stand against her - and some of them (like Feather and Journey) weren't all that good. > Wasn't there speculation about Kina being just a Really Bad > Dominator-type? Her level would come along every couple millenia or so, maybe. > I'd say it's rarer than that. You've got what Father Tree is sitting over, then Kina - with the Dominator being the only one in recorded history between the two that raised an Empire. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: Odp: (glencook-fans) Date: 10 May 2001 14:09:12 -0300 Igor Filippov wrote: > > The Empire was "such a horrid totalitarian hell" ????? > I had an impression that was what rebel propaganda tried to brainwash > common folk into thinking. There're plenty of evidence that Lady's > leadership was quite beneficial for people in a lot of ways. To name > one there's a discussion about cultivating medicinal herbs that made > Croaker ask himself - would a total Evil worry about medicine for common > people ? There were good and bad things about the Empire . . . Spoilers - Silver Spike . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Taken liked to amuse themselves - at least the Limper did. Anywhere he was would have been close to hell on Earth, but the Lady wasn't the Dominator. She saw things issue of long term growth. Destroy a village today and it won't pay any taxes tomorrow. Or next year. Or the year afterwards. Destroy a village and you've destroyed an asset. The Dominator needed to control and demonstrate his control, and the only real way you can prove you have power over another is making the other suffer. The Lady seemed more secure in her knowledge that she was the second most powerful thing (at least until she meet Father Tree) in the world. During the Silver Spike there's a conversation that spells out that for the little guy the Empire was better than what was before. Before they had to fund war after war as landowners fought to increase their holdings, but if you weren't at the border of the Empire your village didn't see anyt fighting. No armies tramped through your fields, you could live on the farm in peace. Sure, you weren't free - but they weren't free before that and the Lady was a more distance and less cruel master than the old lords were. > > Rebels on the other hand weren't shy to employ the very same cruel methods > they were accusing Lady of using.... > Croaker describes Rebels as anything but sweet idealistic fighters for > freedom. Idealists don't win wars - they never had and never will. Idealism is usually one of the first casulties in war. In a war both sides do things they don't brag about later. (Brief aside: During the D-Day invasion some Canadian troops were capture then killed by an SS unit. The General in charge of the unit was convict of failing to prevent that from happening and sentenced to death (they couldn't prove he ordered it but the sentence was the same). When it came time for the head Canadian officer in the field to confirm the death sentence, he didn't - saying something like "Who hasn't given the order not to take prisoners?" In theory there could have been many Allied officers convicted of war crimes, but the winning side didn't put them on trial.) Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 10 May 2001 14:48:27 -0300 Joseph McGrath wrote: > > I believe the reason Croaker is called Croaker is that he is a physician. > During primitive times you usually died when they had to call the doctor. > Hence, Croaker is slang for Doctor. People were deathly afraid of doctors > because when someone called the doctor it meant you were on the way out. > When you read, "The Garrett Files," There is something about, when you get > sent to the Bledsoe charity hospital you never leave except for a one way > trip to the boneyard. There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect. In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?) mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names. Croaker. Elmo Mercy Raven Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones. You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls). > spoilers... > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . > Recall how Croaker is always bemoaning the fact that he doesn't do near as > much as he could for the wounded. But! If he had a good team of compitent > surgeons he would have, "a good chance of doing some good for a change." > (Battle at the Stair of Tear.) I think Croaker was just feeling overwhelmed. As the sole doctor he was forced to do triage (helping as many as he could while letting some die because he didn't have the time to treat them). Think back to the old TV series MASH - you often had the lead doctors moaning about meatball surgery and how if they only had more time and better equipment they could do more. Croaker diagnosed and came up with an antidote to the poision in book one. He was respected by the men - so much so that they followed his camp sanitation instructions. I'd say he did a lot of good most times, but during the retreat there just wasn't much he could do. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sebastian Subject: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon Date: 10 May 2001 13:45:53 -0600 The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher. No title or publish date yet. Glen is now working on "something new". Your guess is as good as mine. -- Eric Herrmann > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Roche Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon Date: 10 May 2001 13:51:17 -0600 Woo Hoo!!! (Now we can start the waiting and the looking and the swearing...) -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 3:46 PM The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher. No title or publish date yet. Glen is now working on "something new". Your guess is as good as mine. -- Eric Herrmann > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 18:34:09 -0600 > I think this is quite interesting--but I have linguist stirrings in my > heart. So I'd like to see what you've compiled with the Company names, > as well. I have published what I have so far in the message "Re: (glencook-fans) names". It was a rather time consuming and difficult task just to identify the ten Taken. I may do more later. -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David George Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 10 May 2001 22:56:28 -0500 How'd I do, Eric? The French was easiest (that was my High School language) but the German was pretty much guess work. My German is an accident waiting to happen. For example, I know "Ein bier, bitte" (Another beer, please) but do I know how to ask directions to the loo? Nein. I'd have to rely on my powers of observation. Or pictograms or something. Or have a stout bladder and perhaps a pair of Depends. I know better than to even try the eastern stuff. Oh, I think it looks and sounds cool as hell, but I don't actually know what it means. Like: "Bezgebny." No idea what it means. I bet I could start a fight with another American (who would no doubt be equally ignorant) if I called him one in the right tone of voice, though. Them's fightin words! The original Taken in French are: l'Anonyme = Faceless Man Boiteux = Limper Craque-les-Os = Bonegnasher Croquelune = Moonbiter Hurleur = Howler Pendu = The Hanged Man Rode-la-Nuit = Nightcrawler Seme-Tempete = Stormbringer Transformeur = Shapeshifter Volesprit = Soulcatcher The original Taken in German are: Formwandler = Shapeshifter Gehenkte = The Hanged Man? Gesichtslose = The Faceless Man? Heuler = Howler Hinker = Limper? Knochenknirscher = Soulcatcher? Mondbeiser = Moonbiter Nachtkriecher = Nightcrawler Seelenfanger = Bonegnasher? Sturmbringer = Stormbringer DG -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 2:14 AM >> frankly i m more curious about the names of the taken You asked.... Below are the names for the original Taken from all the editions except Russia. (I don't own the Russian editions.) The challenge is that they are alphabetized. Can anyone correctly identify the Taken for each country? 50 pts possible. (If someone would send me the names from Russia, I'll add them to the challenge.) The names varied in spelling based upon linguistic rules I don't understand and I couldn't preserve the ligatures. My apologies to the various cultures involved. Please send me any corrections. The original Taken in USA/UK are: Bonegnasher Faceless Man Hanged Man Howler Limper Moonbiter Nightcrawler Shapeshifter Soulcatcher Stormbringer The original Taken in Czech are: Beztvarny Kostizer Kulhavec Lovec Dusi Lunohryz Menivec Nocni Slidil Obesenec Vichrice Vyjec The original Taken in French are: l'Anonyme Boiteux Craque-les-Os Croquelune Hurleur Pendu Rode-la-Nuit Seme-Tempete Transformeur Volesprit The original Taken in German are: Formwandler Gehenkte Gesichtslose Heuler Hinker Knochenknirscher Mondbeiser Nachtkriecher Seelenfanger Sturmbringer The original Taken in Lithuanian are: Audronasa Besikeiciantis Beveidis Kaulalauzio Menulio Kandziotojo Naktinis Sliuzas Pakaruoklis Sielagaudys Slubis Staugunas The original Taken in Polish are: Bezgebny Duszolap Gnatozuja Ksiezycogryza Kulawiec Nocny Pelzacz Wisielec Wladczyni Burz Wyjec Zmiennoksztaltny If this is lame let me know. I also compiled a list of many of the company names from "The Black Company". -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================== =============== To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: áÒÉÓÔÁÒÈ ðÏÌÉËÁÒÐÏ×ÉÞ úÁÂÏÊÎÙÊ-ëÁÎÄÅÌÑÂÒÅÎËÏ Subject: Re: RE: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 11 May 2001 10:35:58 +0400 (MSD) Good afternoon! I can to say Russian names of taken, and of some other characters. Bonegnasher = Kostoglod Faceless Man = Bezlikij Hanged Man = Poveshennyj Howler = Revun Limper = Hromoi Moonbiter = Lunogryz Nightcrawler = Kradushiisja v nochi Shapeshifter = Menjajushij oblik Soulcatcher = Dushelov Stormbringer = Zovushjaja burju Whisper = Shopot Feather = Pero Journey = Strannik Croaker = Kostoprav (or Karkun, in other tranlation) Goblin = Goblin Smoke = Kopchyonyj Lady = Gospozha Dominator = Vlastelin In two different translations, Croaker had two names:Karkun - literal translation of "Croaker", Kostoprav - doctor, which correct bones. I don't sure, but I can translate some names on Czech: Faceless Man = Beztvarny Bonegnasher = Kostizer Soulcatcher = Lovec Dusi Moonbiter = Lunohryz Shapeshifter = Menivec Nightcrawler = Nocni Slidil Lithuanian: Menulio Kandziotojo = Shapeshifter(?) Naktinis Sliuzas = Nightcrawler(?) Polish: Bezgebny = Faceless Man (?) Duszolap = Soulcatcher Ksiezycogryza = Moonbiter Nocny Pelzacz = Nightcrawler Wisielec = Hanged man Zmiennoksztaltny = Shapeshifter ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 11 May 2001 11:01:27 +0200 > > > > smoke > > I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right? > If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :)) > > Mocker Here it comes: Kopec [koh-peh-tch'] -something nasty that gives away smoke. Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 11 May 2001 11:12:28 +0200 > >>> mercy > > > > I can't identify anyone under that name. > > I think that would be Laska at the very beginning of Czarna Kompania. oh, yes, thanks. gwen laska [waas-kaa] meaning exactly the same ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 11 May 2001 11:15:02 +0200 > Thanks for the Polish versions of the names! You are very welcome. > > Ravens and crows are very similar birds; yes, and now among the polish mambers of this group there was a voice, that I am mistaken, and Ravens name is transleted all right. My fault. Thank you for feedback Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gwen" Subject: Odp: (glencook-fans) names Date: 11 May 2001 11:01:27 +0200 > > > > smoke > > I think I can give u that one- he's the wizard from Taglios, right? > If so he is called Kopec( I leave the spelling and degfinition to gwen :)) > > Mocker Here it comes: Kopec [koh-peh-tch'] -something nasty that gives away smoke. Gwen ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) The Taken Name Challenge Date: 11 May 2001 08:14:45 -0600 on 5/10/01 9:56 PM, David George at d.s.george@verizon.net wrote: > How'd I do, Eric? The French was easiest (that was my High > School language) but the German was pretty much guess work. I'll post the answers in a few more days to allow time for others to try their hand. However, I will send a score privately. -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 11 May 2001 15:51:58 -0600 on 5/10/01 11:48 AM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote: > There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or > at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect. > In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really > wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?) > mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black > Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names. > Croaker. > Elmo > Mercy > Raven > Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones. > You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets > explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken > still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls). The Black Company books are somewhat unique in that characters do not have "native" names. They, for the most part, have common noun names or titles. It seems that they have mostly been translated to common nouns and titles. So I guess it isn't that surprising that Elmo is Elmo in all the books, except in the Czech Republic. But I find it surprising that Goblin wasn't. Or that is how it appears to me. I'm sure every culture has some goblin-like creature as part of their literary tradition. I don't understand why his name wasn't translated to the name of that creature. Again the Czech edition is different in that it translates Goblin to Skret. Anyone know what a Skret is? -- Eric Herrmann ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck red_snot" Subject: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 11 May 2001 18:00:24 -0700 I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got through reading it (having been distracted by life and its adventures). I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a masterpiece. And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you), but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the glittering plane saga ended brought good closer. It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would only mock the original. If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does write more BC, I certainly hope he does. I'd rather be drunk Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 11 May 2001 22:51:59 -0300 Chuck red_snot wrote: > > I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got > through reading it (having been distracted by life and its > adventures). > > I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have > read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and > completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a > masterpiece. > It clearly the best of the Glittering Stone books, but for emotional ending there's that little speech Lady makes at the end of her chronicles (Dreams of Steal). Of course, that one was followed by a years long wait so it does stick in the mind. > And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you), > but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose > Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't > possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the > glittering plane saga ended brought good closer. > I agree - the end of Soldiers Live should be the end of the series. He might do something with other eras in that world (I'd love to see early Black Company [maybe after the Pain God bit or when Croaker joined as a young man] or something set in the Domination), but the story of the company has run its courses. I've seen too many writters try to milk success with one or two more books that fail to expanded a tale that has ended to want to see that happen with the Company. > It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the > one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or > director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would > only mock the original. > Agreed. Alas, too many try to do cash in and fail - remember The Godfather Part III? > If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of > this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I > will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does > write more BC, I certainly hope he does. > After the end of Soldiers Live, any book he writes with the Black Company won't have the look and feel of a Black Company novel. Without giving away the end of Soldiers Live, too much would be missing for it to feel like a Black Company novel to me. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jordan Raney" Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 11 May 2001 21:21:18 -0500 >>>And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you), but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.<<< I actually agree with you. Cook closed up the series absolutely perfectly, in my opinion. It's the same feeling I have for the Lord of the Rings trilogy: both sagas are amazing, but they have such excellent closure that I just couldn't imagine them being added to in any way. They're too goo. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Leitch Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 11 May 2001 22:54:23 -0700 Argh! Nuts to you both. I was sorry to see the end. I remember picking up the ninth book or was it the tenth? ... anyway, it was years after the previous. Finally another book! I have enjoyed many series over the years but rarely over so long a time and with such enjoyment. I for one, am sorry you say "that's all". If there is another one he can add to the series then I say "great"! A funny story with that was when I picked up that book, I said "Finally, the ninth in the trilogy!", and walked away with a big smile on my face, happy to have it. Let him keep writing while he is still alive. I was sad when Roger Zelazny died. His Amber series gave me and mine such joy over the years. What it lacked I thought was the depth that Glen Cook developed through his series. There is a lot to be said for "bigger" books. The Rings were a joy. They were big with the depth to fill them. And, they were all there when I first discovered them. Which could start another discussion. Who has the most enjoyment? Us that have been through the series since it first came out or those that came later -- those that have the set to read fresh, from start to finish. I image those people are rare. I know I had a hard time scrounging the book stores before I accumulated enough to gift two complete sets. Maybe its time for another printing? >>>And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you), > but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose > Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't > possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the > glittering plane saga ended brought good closer.<<< > > I actually agree with you. Cook closed up the series absolutely perfectly, > in my opinion. It's the same feeling I have for the Lord of the Rings > trilogy: both sagas are amazing, but they have such excellent closure that > I just couldn't imagine them being added to in any way. They're too goo. > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew) Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) News from Demicon Date: 12 May 2001 03:49:18 -0400 (EDT) > >The infamous 1100 page crime novel has been deliverd to the publisher. >No title or publish date yet. > Does anyone else's heart pound a little faster for a minute after reading news like this? :-) Can't wait! Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 12 May 2001 10:44:25 -0300 Peter Leitch wrote: > > Argh! Nuts to you both. I was sorry to see the end. I remember picking up > the ninth book or was it the tenth? ... anyway, it was years after the > previous. Finally another book! I remember that long wait. Horrible. All because of some mix up with Cook's contract. > I have enjoyed many series over the years > but rarely over so long a time and with such enjoyment. I for one, am sorry > you say "that's all". If there is another one he can add to the series then I > say "great"! If he can pull off another one I'll buy it, but the end of the last book has the feel of the last book in a series. By the end of it virtually all our questions have been answered - at least about the South books (everything after Silver Spike), and I can't see how one more power could improve it. > A funny story with that was when I picked up that book, I said > "Finally, the ninth in the trilogy!", and walked away with a big smile on my > face, happy to have it. > You know if things hadn't been screwed up way back when it would have been a trilogy. The entire Glitter Stone series in one book. With that in mind the wait seems worth it. > Let him keep writing while he is still alive. I was sad when Roger Zelazny > died. Same here. Tragic in a way. > His Amber series gave me and mine such joy over the years. The worse part: He'd announced that he was planning another 5 books. It would have tied together elements from the firs and second five. He wrote some short stories to lay the ground work (one involved contacting a couple of siblings who left Amber years ago and haven't been heard since - not even during the succession / pattern fall war), then died. > What it > lacked I thought was the depth that Glen Cook developed through his series. Two completely different styles of writting - although at times Croaker and Corwin seem to share some traits. They are both telling their stories to others and both (reportedly) lie during their stories. > There is a lot to be said for "bigger" books. The Rings were a joy. They > were big with the depth to fill them. And, they were all there when I first > discovered them. > The biggest disappointment about the Rings? Finishing the story and discovering that the last half of the last book was appendixes. Speaking of the Rings I've seen the trailer for the first movie, and it looks wonderful. > Which could start another discussion. Who has the most enjoyment? Us that > have been through the series since it first came out or those that came later > -- those that have the set to read fresh, from start to finish. I image those > people are rare. I know I had a hard time scrounging the book stores before I > accumulated enough to gift two complete sets. Maybe its time for another > printing? > I think the Black Company has been in print since it was published, but not some of the other books. Think the hardest to find is The Silver Spike / Books of the South ones. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Lefman Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Soldiers Live (No Spoilers) Date: 12 May 2001 11:44:40 +0000 Not to go off on tangents but the paperback of Soldiers Live is available for us cheap bastards. Chuck red_snot wrote: > I know it has been a while since the book came out, but I just got > through reading it (having been distracted by life and its > adventures). > > I must say that without a doubt, that was the finest BC book I have > read. I thought that the level of emotion at the end was new and > completely justified considering the circumstances. It was truly a > masterpiece. > > And I know this may sound crazy to some of you (perhaps all of you), > but I would hope that Cook ends the annals forever (though I suppose > Cook left enough interesting "maybes" to write more). You couldn't > possibly top the stories of the original BC, and the way the > glittering plane saga ended brought good closer. > > It is like other great books or even movies you saw that you on the > one hand wish there was a sequel, but you knew that the author or > director nailed the story so beautifully that to make a sequel would > only mock the original. > > If there are more BC books (and I know there was some discussion of > this on the list, but as I've said I have been occupied elsewhere), I > will read them. Perhaps Cook can recapture this magic. If he does > write more BC, I certainly hope he does. > > I'd rather be drunk > Beer Mail, brought to you by your friends at beer.com. > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph McGrath" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 12 May 2001 14:06:55 -0000 Thanks for speculating Eric. I just had an idea. Since Glenn draws so heavily from obscure Indian mythology perhaps there is somebody out there who can translate some of names from farsi. I mean Kina is a real member of that polytheistic deity ridden culture. The aspects of castes and the levels of societal cultures plays such a huge role in the books of the south that ther'es got to be somebody out there who knows alot about this and can add to this discussion. spoilers.. . . . . . . . . . . . Key points.... From the Garrett files. Where did he get the idea for the kef-sidhe strangler cords with the conical pieces of cork woven into them so they won't let go of the victims neck. And how about the strangler cults, aka Decievers? That's got to have roots in some farsi culture.... Anybody out there who can add to that? Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 9:51 PM > on 5/10/01 11:48 AM, Richard Chilton at rchilton@auracom.com wrote: > > > There's underlining reason for the names in the Black Company books - or > > at least there's a statement by Cook to that affect. > > In his Dread Empire series the names were... interesting. You really > > wanted a pronunciation guide for that series, and someone (a reviewer?) > > mentioned something to Cook about his choice of names. So in the Black > > Company we have some very simple (at least simple in English) names. > > Croaker. > > Elmo > > Mercy > > Raven > > Even the sorcerers had simple names as opposed to mystic sounding ones. > > You have Soulcatcher, not something like Hyenertill'Deren (which gets > > explained as being the (forget the name of the language only the Taken > > still spoke) term for Catcher of Souls). > > The Black Company books are somewhat unique in that characters do not have > "native" names. They, for the most part, have common noun names or titles. > > It seems that they have mostly been translated to common nouns and titles. > > So I guess it isn't that surprising that Elmo is Elmo in all the books, > except in the Czech Republic. > > But I find it surprising that Goblin wasn't. Or that is how it appears to > me. I'm sure every culture has some goblin-like creature as part of their > literary tradition. I don't understand why his name wasn't translated to the > name of that creature. > > Again the Czech edition is different in that it translates Goblin to Skret. > Anyone know what a Skret is? > > -- > Eric Herrmann > > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) names Date: 12 May 2001 15:23:04 -0300 Joseph McGrath wrote: > > Thanks for speculating Eric. > I just had an idea. Since Glenn draws so heavily from obscure Indian > mythology perhaps there is somebody out there who can translate some of > names from farsi. I mean Kina is a real member of that polytheistic deity > ridden culture. The aspects of castes and the levels of societal cultures > plays such a huge role in the books of the south that ther'es got to be > somebody out there who knows alot about this and can add to this discussion. > spoilers.. > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > > . > > . > > Key points.... > >From the Garrett files. Where did he get the idea for the kef-sidhe > strangler cords with the conical pieces of cork woven into them so they > won't let go of the victims neck. And how about the strangler cults, aka > Decievers? That's got to have roots in some farsi culture.... Anybody out > there who can add to that? > Thanks, Joe I always thought the strangler cults were drawn from the Thugges (might be spelling that wrong) cult - an East Indian (i.e. from India, not North America) group that existed in India for quite a long time. They worshiped the goddess Kali and their practices were a lot like those of Cook's cult - specially as it is first explained to the Lady in Dreams of Steel. Existing as a Hindu offshoot for centuries it was only whiped out by a long British campaign. Rumours exist that they might still be around, and that was more or less the plot of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom movie. The cork thing - I think that might have come from the the Thugges. If not, I'm sure I've heard of it before somewhere - maybe linked to the Assassins (i.e. the group whose name gives us the english words for assassin and hashish)? Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: timtheencntr@aol.com Subject: (glencook-fans) daughter of the night Date: 12 May 2001 16:40:42 EDT --part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question about the daughter of the night, i remember that at shwadowgate she was put in a cage that had a magic spell on it, if she tried to escape she would be choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the same would happen to her. she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and then subsecquently escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is given or how she was able to get away from it. any clues or ideas? by the way i am scott, i live in las vegas and am ne wto the group --part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a question about the daughter of the night, i remember that at
shwadowgate she was put in a cage that had a magic spell on it, if she tried
to escape she would be choked and if she tried to destroy the cage the same
would happen to her. she was then taken by soulcatcher to taglios and then
subsecquently escaped from soulcatcher, no mention of the cage is given or
how she was able to get away from it.
any clues or ideas?
by the way i am scott, i live in las vegas and am ne wto the group --part1_ca.14eeec46.282ef9ca_boundary-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David George Subject: RE: (glencook-fans) names Date: 12 May 2001 15:48:52 -0500 Ummm. I think "Farsi" is the language spoken by Persians. If I'm right about that, then their society is pretty monotheistic (No God But Allah) right at the moment. I believe that is also where Zoroastrianism started, another monotheistic form of worship, if I recall, prepared to be pretty mistaken about that though as it is a long reach back into stuff I haven't read about in a while. If I am right, the Persians will probably take offense at being associated with the stranglers, though. Most of what was Persia and the Persians is in the country we now call Iran. At the height of things, their empire also included Turkey, the fertile crescent, etc. Then this Alexander guy whipped their behinds pretty badly and took pretty much all their real estate. If you are talking about the Indian subcontinent, then there are lots of languages and cultures: Hindi, Bengali, Kashmiri, etc. Kina seems to me to be based on the goddess Kali, from Hindu religion (which is one of several religions on the subcontinent, but it is the dominant one). The strangler cult seems to be based on the Thuggee cults, which used strangling and murder as a way of worshipping Kali. This cult was active during the British Raj, which worked pretty hard to put it down. Thus the term "thug" which now is generalized in American English as a synonym for "criminal" but has its roots in this religion. From what I've read about the thuggee, there were degrees and roles, similar to the ones that Kina's stranglers have--arm holders, etc. If I recall correctly, the thuggee were also infamous for their skill at disposing of bodies once they had killed someone--this involved breaking the bones with hammers (ringing any bells here?) so that bodies could be stowed in smaller spaces. I think they tended to avoid bloodshedding as well. I've read that murdering someone in a faith that believes in reincarnation is not necessarily as bad a thing as one that does not, from a moral perspective. I doubt their victims felt that way, though. According to Song of Kali, by Dan Simmons, the city now called Calcutta derives its name from Kali worship--Kalikata was an earlier version of the name. But that book is fiction and so this etymology may be too. Calcutta is in Northeast India in Bengal. I have not come across the pieces of cork thing before I read it in a Garrett book but it is a wicked idea. Would not surprise me to find that thugs used the practice, can't confirm it tho. By contrast, the Hashishim/Assassins are Islamic in origin. If we are to believe what I