Chad C. Wicker
Systems Engineer
Petrocom

>>> d.s.george@verizon.net 01/09/02 06:57PM=20 >>>
One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy = of=20
mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and =
it is=20 very early work, but I was surprised at how much I
enjoyed it. = Has=20 anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean.

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:    Lawrence=20 Jenab
Sent:    Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47=20 PM
To:   =20 glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com
Subject:    Re:=20 (glencook-fans) Black Company

This post has inspired some of the = best=20 discussion in a
while--it amazes me
how many different kinds of = books=20 Glen has written, and the
degree to which
they appeal differently = even to=20 his "hardest core" fans.
Has there been a
thread (I'm sure there = has . .=20 .) about what it is,
essentially, that we all
respond to in his=20 books? People have pointed out that, in
some ways, they
can = be=20 viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully
written, but they
su= re=20 keep us coming back for more.

My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats = the=20 reader or wastes
his/her time. I
have trouble finding a = sentence in=20 his novels that doesn't
need to be there
(some throwaway lines = in=20 Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett).
As short as
they often are, they = are=20 splitting at the seams with plot.
This kind of
efficient writing = takes=20 real discipline, and it feels (I'm
reaching for a
word here) = "courteous"=20 to me. I like that every page gets
me somewhere.

I read = an=20 interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said
that the most
importan= t=20 thing he learned as a writer was how not to
condescend to the
reader= --how=20 to leave things out and refrain from
over-explaining. I=20 think
Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough
edges)= =20 because he is
a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to = be=20
filled in by the
reader. He rarely says too much, and his = worlds=20 cohere
because it's my
creative impulse as much as his that's = keeping it=20 all
together. Some other
fantasy writers overdescribe so much = that=20 the worldbuilding
gets in the way
of the reader. It also = becomes=20 sort of tyrannical--there's
nothing left to
my imagination, and I'm = just=20 a passive spectator.

Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't = it? =20 Interested in what
the group
thinks, and sorry if this has been = beaten to=20 death when I
wasn't paying
attention. I've wanted to bring this up = for a=20 long time,
but never had time
to put my thoughts into=20 words.

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas = J=20 Thalasinos" <thalpres@bellatlantic.net>
To:=20 <glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, = 2002 4:28=20 PM
Subject: (glencook-fans) Black Company

> Does anyone = know if=20 Glen Cook plans any other books in
the Black Company
>=20 series?
>
> Nicholas
>
>
>
>=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> To = unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the=20 archives of
this list,
> visit
<http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.
>

=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D =20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To unsubscribe, = subscribe, or access the archives of this=20
list,
visit <http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
To=20 unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list,
visit = <http://www.xmiss= ion.com/~shpshftr/GC/GC-Mail.html>.

--=_80DD8C75.86E78B98-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Lefman Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company Date: 10 Jan 2002 08:06:25 +0000 I'm still hunting a copy of that work. David George wrote: > One book I have not heard mentioned (and it is worthy of > mention) is The Heirs of Babylon. I know it is obscure and > it is very early work, but I was surprised at how much I > enjoyed it. Has anyone else read it? Beside Eric, I mean. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Jenab > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:47 PM > To: glencook-fans@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company > > This post has inspired some of the best discussion in a > while--it amazes me > how many different kinds of books Glen has written, and the > degree to which > they appeal differently even to his "hardest core" fans. > Has there been a > thread (I'm sure there has . . .) about what it is, > essentially, that we all > respond to in his books? People have pointed out that, in > some ways, they > can be viewed as "mere pulp" and not always gracefully > written, but they > sure keep us coming back for more. > > My $0.02 is that Glen never cheats the reader or wastes > his/her time. I > have trouble finding a sentence in his novels that doesn't > need to be there > (some throwaway lines in Garrett, but hey, that's Garrett). > As short as > they often are, they are splitting at the seams with plot. > This kind of > efficient writing takes real discipline, and it feels (I'm > reaching for a > word here) "courteous" to me. I like that every page gets > me somewhere. > > I read an interview with Roger Zelazny in which he said > that the most > important thing he learned as a writer was how not to > condescend to the > reader--how to leave things out and refrain from > over-explaining. I think > Glen's style is so effective for me (despite the rough > edges) because he is > a master at leaving chunks of the imaginary world to be > filled in by the > reader. He rarely says too much, and his worlds cohere > because it's my > creative impulse as much as his that's keeping it all > together. Some other > fantasy writers overdescribe so much that the worldbuilding > gets in the way > of the reader. It also becomes sort of tyrannical--there's > nothing left to > my imagination, and I'm just a passive spectator. > > Sorry, that was a bit windy, wasn't it? Interested in what > the group > thinks, and sorry if this has been beaten to death when I > wasn't paying > attention. I've wanted to bring this up for a long time, > but never had time > to put my thoughts into words. > > Larry > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Black Company Date: 10 Jan 2002 13:29:42 -0400 malik coates wrote: > > "Tower of Fear" is one of my favorite GC books. It's a study of > characters and motivations. It's like a "Man in High Castle" of dark > fantasy. Each character has a distinct motivation driving his actions > and the book just follows thier interaction. I love how mighty fighters > can be brought low by simple people and how each character is so true to > himself. > Just my opinion, but this is one of his better non-black company books. Not only does it have a wonderful take on reincarnation but there are two epilogues - one that tells you about the fates of the characters and one that describes what happens with the world. While this ruled out any sequels I enjoyed the lack of loose ends. The end of this book is a major contrast to his _Sword Bearer_ - a book that cries out for sequels that will probably never be written. While I've found a few of his books less enjoyable than others Cook remains at the head of my mental "it's a new book! buy it without reading the back in case the blurb gives something away" list. If memory serves he's lasted the longest on that list as other authors come (when I discover a very good one) and go (when I hit one to many clunkers from an author). Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fraser Ronald Subject: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 17 Jan 2002 07:29:50 -0800 (PST) For those of you in Canada, I just picked up a hardcover of "Water Sleeps" at Chapters for 5.99 (plus tax, of course!). I rarely buy hardcovers, so it was a great opportunity for me. This is the first hardcover Glen Cook novel I own. You might also be able to order it online for the same price, but if you are near a Chapters, go check it out. Fraser __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:56:05 -0400 Fraser Ronald wrote: > > For those of you in Canada, I just picked up a > hardcover of "Water Sleeps" at Chapters for 5.99 (plus > tax, of course!). I rarely buy hardcovers, so it was a > great opportunity for me. This is the first hardcover > Glen Cook novel I own. > There are only two reasons I buy hardcover - one is cases like this when the hardcover is as cheap or cheaper than the paperback. Alas, I already bought it for the second reason I buy hardcovers - there are a very few authors (and the list seems to be shrinking) whose books are so good I can't wait until they come out in paperback. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dmeyer@dmeyer.net Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 01:07:56 -0500 In article <3C470225.425FC32A@auracom.com> you write: > There are only two reasons I buy hardcover - one is cases like this when > the hardcover is as cheap or cheaper than the paperback. Alas, I > already bought it for the second reason I buy hardcovers - there are a > very few authors (and the list seems to be shrinking) whose books are so > good I can't wait until they come out in paperback. Third reason: I already know that I want the book (or series) to last longer than most paperbacks last. Witness George R.R. Martin's latest. My problem with Cook is that I have so many in paperback that individual hardcovers would look out of place, and I don't really want to buy 20+ hardcovers even if they were all available (which they aren't). Sometimes, esthetics win out over practicality. Sigh. -- Dave Meyer dmeyer@dmeyer.net ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fraser Ronald Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 07:21:36 -0800 (PST) I agree with the first reason, but right now, until I start hauling in the big, big, BIG bucks, I'm forced to use a library for the initial read, and wait for the softcover to keep the collection current. I feel bad about that in that I'd like to support a writer like GLen Cook more fully. I'm glad I can at least support him through paperback sales (around $10 CAN for Soldier's Live, ouch! Though these days, that's like $6 US, so I guess it's a deal, except I'm paid in Canadian rather than US). Fraser --- Richard Chilton wrote: > Fraser Ronald wrote: > > > > For those of you in Canada, I just picked up a > > hardcover of "Water Sleeps" at Chapters for 5.99 > (plus > > tax, of course!). I rarely buy hardcovers, so it > was a > > great opportunity for me. This is the first > hardcover > > Glen Cook novel I own. > > > > There are only two reasons I buy hardcover - one is > cases like this when > the hardcover is as cheap or cheaper than the > paperback. Alas, I > already bought it for the second reason I buy > hardcovers - there are a > very few authors (and the list seems to be > shrinking) whose books are so > good I can't wait until they come out in paperback. > > Richard > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives > of this list, > visit . __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 12:47:15 -0400 dmeyer@dmeyer.net wrote: > > In article <3C470225.425FC32A@auracom.com> you write: > > There are only two reasons I buy hardcover - one is cases like this when > > the hardcover is as cheap or cheaper than the paperback. Alas, I > > already bought it for the second reason I buy hardcovers - there are a > > very few authors (and the list seems to be shrinking) whose books are so > > good I can't wait until they come out in paperback. > > Third reason: I already know that I want the book (or series) to last > longer than most paperbacks last. Witness George R.R. Martin's > latest. > That used to be my main reason in buying hardcovers - but over the years I've learned to be very careful while reading and storing paperbacks. Most of my books from the late 80s onward are in good condition. The biggest trick? Being careful of who I lend them to. It's to the point now that if I plan to leand a book I'll get two copies of the paperback (or pick up a second used copy months after the book comes out) - which is still more economical than buying hardcovers. > My problem with Cook is that I have so many in paperback that > individual hardcovers would look out of place, and I don't really want > to buy 20+ hardcovers even if they were all available (which they > aren't). Sometimes, esthetics win out over practicality. Sigh. For the Black Company: As far as I know _The Silver Spike_ and first two Books of the South were never published in hardcover while the first three are in a hardcover published by the Science Fiction Book Club. The Dread Empire and most stand alones (_Swordbearer_, _Tower of Fear_ etc): I don't think these every saw harcover. The Garnet Files: Think some have been published as collections by the SFBC. But you're right - it does look very weird to see paperback, paperback, hardcover - picked up the last Steven Burst one (Dragon) in hardcover and it looks weird next to the paperbacks that make up that series. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pardoz Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 14:14:48 -0400 PlRoZSBEcmVhZCBFbXBpcmUgYW5kIG1vc3Qgc3RhbmQgYWxvbmVzIChfU3dvcmRiZWFyZXJfLCBf VG93ZXIgb2YgRmVhcl8NCj5ldGMpOg0KPkkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhlc2UgZXZlcnkgc2F3IGhh cmNvdmVyLg0KDQoJSWYgbWVtb3J5IHNlcnZlcywgX1Rvd2VyIG9mIEZlYXJfIHdhcyBoaXMgZmly c3QgcmVhbCAoaWUuIG5vdCBib29rIGNsdWIgZWRpdGlvbiksIG1hc3MtbWFya2V0IChpZS4gbm90 IG1pY3JvcHJlc3MsIGxpa2UgX1N1bmcgaW4gQmxvb2RfOyBjYW4ndCByZWNhbGwgb2ZmLWhhbmQg d2hldGhlciB0aGlzIG9uZSB3YXMgcHVibGlzaGVkIGJlZm9yZSBvciBhZnRlciBfVG93ZXJfKSBF bmdsaXNoLWxhbmd1YWdlIGhhcmRjb3ZlciwgYWN0dWFsbHkuICBXaGV0aGVyIG9yIG5vdCBpdCB3 YXMgdGhlIGZpcnN0LCBhIGhhcmRjb3ZlciBlZGl0aW9uIGRlZmluaXRlbHkgZXhpc3RzIC0gSSBr bm93LCAnY2F1c2UgSSBvd24gaXQgOi0pLg0KDQo+QnV0IHlvdSdyZSByaWdodCAtIGl0IGRvZXMg bG9vayB2ZXJ5IHdlaXJkIHRvIHNlZSBwYXBlcmJhY2ssIHBhcGVyYmFjaywNCj5oYXJkY292ZXIg LSBwaWNrZWQgdXAgdGhlIGxhc3QgU3RldmVuIEJ1cnN0IG9uZSAoRHJhZ29uKSBpbiBoYXJkY292 ZXINCj5hbmQgaXQgbG9va3Mgd2VpcmQgbmV4dCB0byB0aGUgcGFwZXJiYWNrcyB0aGF0IG1ha2Ug dXAgdGhhdCBzZXJpZXMuDQoNCglZb3UncmUgb25lIGJlaGluZCBvbiB5b3VyIEJydXN0cyAtIHRo ZSBuZXcgb25lICh0aGUgdGl0bGUgb2Ygd2hpY2ggZWx1ZGVzIG1lIGF0IHRoZSBtbycpIGhhcyBi ZWVuIG91dCBpbiBoYyBmb3Igc2V2ZXJhbCBtb250aHMgbm93Lg0K ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 13:19:42 -0400 Fraser Ronald wrote: > > I agree with the first reason, but right now, until I > start hauling in the big, big, BIG bucks, I'm forced > to use a library for the initial read, and wait for > the softcover to keep the collection current. I feel > bad about that in that I'd like to support a writer > like GLen Cook more fully. I'm glad I can at least > support him through paperback sales (around $10 CAN > for Soldier's Live, ouch! Though these days, that's > like $6 US, so I guess it's a deal, except I'm paid in > Canadian rather than US). > Lack of big bucks is why my list of "It's a new book buy it now and don't worry about the cost" keeps shrinking. Alas my local library has what is know as a shrinking budget and SF Fantasy isn't at the top of their buy list, so if I want to read it before the paperback comes out I have to buy it. It's hard looking at a hardcover, drolling, dreaming about reading it, then telling myself that I have to wait until it comes out in paperback because the price is just way too high. As for prices - as a fellow Canadian I'm hearing that book prices will hit $11 - 12 Cnd this summer as the price of paper goes up and the Canadian dollar goes down. Over the last 20 - 15 years the price of paperbacks have almost tripled and a new 7% tax was put on them in the late 80s or early 90s. Alas, I am addicted to books. It could be worse, I might be burning cash like smokers do or drinking it in the form of alcohol - but a significant chunk of my income goes to books. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Klobas@aol.com Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #155 Date: 18 Jan 2002 12:48:55 EST I agree with the 3 'Why I Buy Hardcover' reasons listed, but there's another one that I believe in. I want to support the author. I want to tell Tor that they need to publish more Glen Cook, whether it be hardcover or paperback and the only way I can do that is through buying his books. Over the last 2-3 years I've purchased each of his Black Company books direct from the stores, even though I could have picked all of them up cheaper second-hand. I pay more for them but I feel it's a small price to pay. With the recent escalation in the price of paperbacks ($7.99!!) I apply this logic to all my purchases. I only buy new books of my very favorite authors. I pick up everything else used. S. Klobas ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brooke A. Wheeler" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) "Water Sleeps" hardcover cheap Date: 18 Jan 2002 23:34:47 -0800 You might try interlibrary loan if your library doesn't have a particular book. Sometimes it takes them a couple of months to locate a copy for you, but usually, it's more like 3 weeks... I use it all the time when my library doesn't have a particular book--it's still a lot faster than waiting for them to buy a copy locally and (especially) faster than waiting for it to come out in PB. Richard Chilton wrote: > Lack of big bucks is why my list of "It's a new book buy it now and > don't worry about the cost" keeps shrinking. Alas my local library has > what is know as a shrinking budget and SF Fantasy isn't at the top of > their buy list, so if I want to read it before the paperback comes out I > have to buy it. It's hard looking at a hardcover, drolling, dreaming > about reading it, then telling myself that I have to wait until it comes > out in paperback because the price is just way too high. > > As for prices - as a fellow Canadian I'm hearing that book prices will > hit $11 - 12 Cnd this summer as the price of paper goes up and the > Canadian dollar goes down. Over the last 20 - 15 years the price of > paperbacks have almost tripled and a new 7% tax was put on them in the > late 80s or early 90s. > Alas, I am addicted to books. It could be worse, I might be burning > cash like smokers do or drinking it in the form of alcohol - but a > significant chunk of my income goes to books. > > Richard > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michele" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 15:29:46 -0500 The latest of the Vlad series by Steven Brust is "Athyra" which I liked better than Dragon. I got both in hardcover. Happily my friends and family aren't shy about asking what I want for Christmas/Birthday presents - and I'm not shy about telling them exactly which books I want. Yes, I am a bookaholic and they are my enablers. M mr1@rcosta.com On 18 Jan 2002 at 14:14, Pardoz wrote: > >But you're right - it does look very weird to see paperback, > >paperback, hardcover - picked up the last Steven Burst one (Dragon) > >in hardcover and it looks weird next to the paperbacks that make up > >that series. > > You're one behind on your Brusts - the new one (the title of which > eludes me at the mo') has been out in hc for several months now. Michele mr1@rcosta.com ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jake Kesinger Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 14:45:41 -0600 (CST) On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Michele wrote: > > The latest of the Vlad series by Steven Brust is "Athyra" which I > liked better than Dragon. I got both in hardcover. Happily my > friends and family aren't shy about asking what I want for > Christmas/Birthday presents - and I'm not shy about telling them > exactly which books I want. The latest in the Vlad series is _Issola_. _Athyra_ came out several years ago (and is now OOP, IIRC). ==Jake ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michele" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 17:28:33 -0500 SORRY. You're right. That's what I get for not getting off my seat and actually looking! M On 19 Jan 2002 at 14:45, Jake Kesinger wrote: > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Michele wrote: > > > > The latest of the Vlad series by Steven Brust is "Athyra" which I > > liked better than Dragon. I got both in hardcover. Happily my > > friends and family aren't shy about asking what I want for > > Christmas/Birthday presents - and I'm not shy about telling them > > exactly which books I want. > > The latest in the Vlad series is _Issola_. _Athyra_ came out several > years ago (and is now OOP, IIRC). > > ==Jake > > > ====================================================================== > = > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . Michele mr1@rcosta.com ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bagel Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 20 Jan 2002 19:34:37 -0800 So the big Taltos series question has to be " Will there be 17 books? And if he does 17 and the series is still going well, what names will he use next? Michele wrote: > SORRY. You're right. That's what I get for not getting off my seat > and actually looking! > > M > > On 19 Jan 2002 at 14:45, Jake Kesinger wrote: > > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002, Michele wrote: > > > > > > The latest of the Vlad series by Steven Brust is "Athyra" which I > > > liked better than Dragon. I got both in hardcover. Happily my > > > friends and family aren't shy about asking what I want for > > > Christmas/Birthday presents - and I'm not shy about telling them > > > exactly which books I want. > > > > The latest in the Vlad series is _Issola_. _Athyra_ came out several > > years ago (and is now OOP, IIRC). > > > > ==Jake > > > > > > ====================================================================== > > = > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit . > > Michele > mr1@rcosta.com > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Llaneza Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 16:53:55 -0800 Well, we're all HOPING for 17 Taltos books. Bagel wrote: > So the big Taltos series question has to be " Will there be 17 books? And >if he does 17 and the series is still going well, what names will he use >next? > >Michele wrote: > >>SORRY. You're right. That's what I get for not getting off my seat >>and actually looking! >> >>M >> >>On 19 Jan 2002 >> ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pardoz Subject: Re: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 22:0:26 -0400 PiBTbyB0aGUgYmlnIFRhbHRvcyBzZXJpZXMgcXVlc3Rpb24gaGFzIHRvIGJlICIgV2lsbCB0aGVy ZSBiZSAxNyBib29rcz8gQW5kDQo+aWYgaGUgZG9lcyAxNyBhbmQgdGhlIHNlcmllcyBpcyBzdGls bCBnb2luZyB3ZWxsLCB3aGF0IG5hbWVzIHdpbGwgaGUgdXNlDQo+bmV4dD8NCg0KCVdoZW4gSSB0 YWxrZWQgdG8gaGltIGF0IGEgY29uIHNvbWUgeWVhcnMgYmFjayBoZSBzYWlkIHRoYXQgdGhlIE1h c3RlciBQbGFuICh1bmxlc3MgaGUgZ290IGJvcmVkIHdpdGggVmxhZCkgd2FzIGFjdHVhbGx5IDE5 IGJvb2tzIC0gb25lIHBlciBIb3VzZSwgcGx1cyBfVGFsdG9zXyAoYWxyZWFkeSB3cml0dGVuKSBh bmQgX1RoZSBGaW5hbCBDb250cmFjdF8sIHdoaWNoIHdpbGwgYmUsIHdlbGwuLi4NCg== ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 19 Jan 2002 21:25:03 -0400 Bagel wrote: > > So the big Taltos series question has to be " Will there be 17 books? And > if he does 17 and the series is still going well, what names will he use > next? > Apperently he's already written one of the final scenes of the series. It's on his web site, and is basicaly the biggest spoiler for the series you can imagine. I clicked on it once, browsed it, and am still trying to forget it. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dr. Elmo" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Off topic Date: 22 Jan 2002 09:04:31 -0600 Michele wondered aloud to the group: > >The latest of the Vlad series by Steven Brust is "Athyra" which I >liked better than Dragon. I think you mean "Issola"; "Athyra" comes between "Phoenix" and "Orca" and dates to the early 90s. IMO, "Athyra" is the nadir of the series, not least because it's not from Vlad's POV. "Issola" is pretty good and explains a whole freaking ton of backstory. -- "Y'know, since I've had actual *sex* this kinda stuff dulls me to tears. Nothing cures sophomoric salacious behavior towards women faster than an actual sex life."--Christopher James Priest Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "don" Subject: (glencook-fans) Heirs Of Babylon Date: 23 Jan 2002 10:23:01 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1A3F7.EF572580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you trying to complete your collection, I got a copy of = Heirs of Babylon for $5.95 US. off of ebay. I used the buy it now = feature. They are gouging me with the shipping fees ($3.50) but hey, I = can't find this book anywhere else. Right now there's a copy of a Matter = of Time with no bids on it. It has the Buy now option which is what I = used. If you can use this option before someone else bids, you can get a = pretty low price. I think the buy now is like $7.50. Go check it out. Don "In time, what's deserved always gets served"- COC ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1A3F7.EF572580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

For those of you trying to complete = your=20 collection, I got a copy of Heirs of Babylon for $5.95 US. off of ebay. = I used=20 the buy it now feature. They are gouging me with the shipping fees = ($3.50) but=20 hey, I can't find this book anywhere else. Right now there's a copy of a = Matter=20 of Time with no bids on it. It has the Buy now option which is what I = used. If=20 you can use this option before someone else bids, you can get a pretty = low=20 price. I think the buy now is like $7.50. Go check it out.

Don
"In time, what's deserved always = gets=20 served"- COC

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C1A3F7.EF572580-- ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 24 Jan 2002 17:57:53 -0400 Mike Stackpole set up a page asking for support: http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/appeal.html I've seen another one from Spider Robinson. I've got a feeling that the publishing industry isn't doing all that well. What does this mean to us? It means that if you like an author you should recommend him to friends and support him by buying new books. Used ones are cheaper (and you can often get them in good condition) but the author doesn't see a penny of that sale. It's hard to believe that a best selling writing (750,000+ of one title would put him in that category) like Stackpole is looking at getting a day job. One of Cook's reasons for only putting out a few books a year was the hours put in at his full time "get money to feed my family" job. I'm not sure which of Cook's books are in print but I plan to round out my paperback collection (getting paperbacks when I already have the hardcovered ones means I have books I can lend). Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Klobas@aol.com Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #158 Date: 24 Jan 2002 17:34:52 EST I suspect that any book with a Star Wars logo on the cover will sell 750,000+ copies. Mike Stackpole has nothing to do with it. That said, his books look intriguing and I'd love to be in a position to support him (and all of the other authors I love to read) but I've got to look out for myself first. The only authors that I buy brand new right off the shelves are Glen Cook, George R.R. Martin, and Robert Jordan. Of those listed, I suspect that only Cook really benefits from my support. Anyone know if he's landed a publisher for his detective novel yet? S. Klobas ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wendy A. Shaffer" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 24 Jan 2002 16:44:00 -0800 (PST) Responding To: Richard Chilton Original Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:57:53 -0400 > > Mike Stackpole set up a page asking for support: > http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/appeal.html > > I've seen another one from Spider Robinson. I've got a feeling that the > publishing industry isn't doing all that well. Spider Robinson's appeal to his fans for help is a couple of years old. It was pretty much the result of Tor Books, which at that time published Robinson's _Callahan_ series, offering a low advance for the next book in the series. (Patrick Neilsen Hayden, an editor for Tor, said on Usenet that Tor thought the series was losing steam, and they would have preferred a stand-alone or a novel in a new series to a Callahan novel.) Robinson's since taken the Callahan series to a new publisher (Baen?); it seems to be selling well, and Robinson's also got a new book out from Tor. He's in a lot better situation than he was in when he wrote that appeal. None of this is to say that authors like Robinson or Stackpole don't need our support -- they very much do. Authors in the midlist are always in a precarious position. But I often see Robinson's appeal cited as a sign of The Imminent Doom of Publishing, and I wanted to point out that Robinson, with the help of fans who bought his books when it was important, has turned things around. > What does this mean to us? It means that if you like an author you > should recommend him to friends and support him by buying new books. > Used ones are cheaper (and you can often get them in good condition) but > the author doesn't see a penny of that sale. Yeah. If you really can't afford to buy the books new, (and I certainly can't afford to buy all the new books that I'd like to buy) don't forget the power of word of mouth. I know I've "sold" tons of copies of my favorite books by recommending them to friends. ---wendy wshaffer@uclink4.berkeley.edu ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: schew@interzone.com (Steve Chew) Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: Helping authors... Date: 25 Jan 2002 06:08:09 -0500 (EST) > >The only authors that I buy brand new right off the shelves are >Glen Cook, George R.R. Martin, and Robert Jordan. Of those listed, I >suspect that only Cook really benefits from my support. > I also try to be sure to buy all new books from authors that I like. Cook certainly benefits a bit from each sale since only decent sales will allow him to keep writing. However, while they may have been doing better than Cook, I think that both Martin and Jordan really only made it "big" with their most recent fantasy series. I'm happy for them -- I've enjoyed most everthing I've read by Martin. If you want to try some of Martin's other writing, I'd suggest "Tuf Voyaging" (novel) and "Sandkings" (short stories). Both are excellent though probably out of print. >Anyone know if he's landed a publisher for his detective novel yet? > Yes, any news on this? I'm looking forward to it. Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: Helping authors... Date: 25 Jan 2002 12:47:49 -0400 Steve Chew wrote: > > > > >The only authors that I buy brand new right off the shelves are > >Glen Cook, George R.R. Martin, and Robert Jordan. Of those listed, I > >suspect that only Cook really benefits from my support. > > > I also try to be sure to buy all new books from authors that I > like. Cook certainly benefits a bit from each sale since only decent > sales will allow him to keep writing. However, while they may have been > doing better than Cook, I think that both Martin and Jordan really only > made it "big" with their most recent fantasy series. I'm happy for > them -- I've enjoyed most everthing I've read by Martin. Jordon wrote in a licenced series for years (Conan) and when I first picked up Eye of the World I can remember wondering if they were the same person. While the Conan books were nice they weren't bestsellers. > If you want to try some of Martin's other writing, I'd suggest > "Tuf Voyaging" (novel) and "Sandkings" (short stories). Both are > excellent though probably out of print. > I'll agree that "Tuf Voyaging" is an excellent book (about Tuf and his space travels) and Sandkings was excellent. If memory serves they turned the short story 'Sandkings' into a TV episode - with a radically different setting and message. Something about an Earth scientist getting some space dust with the sandkings in it and being obsessed with them rather than the original playboy type looking for a new fighting animal. That said, I always try to pull any book from certain authors - the writters need the money. Occording to Stakepole's page buing $30 of his books only puts about $2 in his pocket. Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dkord" Subject: (glencook-fans) E-Books. Date: 25 Jan 2002 11:17:28 -0800 I bought a Compac Ipac pocket pc not too long ago. The device enable me to read Microsoft's and Adobe's E-book formats. While browsing the Sci Fi category from many online retailers, I noticed there is not a lot in the way of authors mentioned by this group. I hope Glen and more of our favorite authors get on board. If anyone has a good link to some great fantasy/Sci-Fi E-books I would appreciate them. From my understanding it isn't all that involved to put a book into an electronic media format sans contractual agreements. Maybe if there's enough requests, we'll see some of the "out of prints" show up...one can only hope. DKord. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brooke A. Wheeler" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) E-Books. Date: 25 Jan 2002 14:01:27 -0800 If you enjoy reading Baen authors like Lois M. Bujold, David Weber, David Drake et cetera, try going to http://www.webscription.net where you can purchase a number of their titles in ebook format for Palm OS, PocketPC or Rocket formats. THey also have a number of books available for free at http://www.baen.com/library/ Right now I have over 60 books stashed on a memory card in my Palm PDA... it's great! There are other e-publishers out there too, but I haven't tried any of them yet, but Baen is certainly doing an excellent job. Dkord wrote: > I bought a Compac Ipac pocket pc not too long ago. The device enable me to > read Microsoft's and Adobe's E-book formats. > > While browsing the Sci Fi category from many online retailers, I noticed > there is not a lot in the way of authors mentioned by this group. > I hope Glen and more of our favorite authors get on board. If anyone has a > good link to some great fantasy/Sci-Fi E-books I would appreciate them. > >>From my understanding it isn't all that involved to put a book into an > electronic media format sans contractual agreements. > Maybe if there's enough requests, we'll see some of the "out of prints" show > up...one can only hope. > > DKord. > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BaronetCorvu@cs.com Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 25 Jan 2002 19:20:04 EST In a message dated 1/24/02 4:01:53 PM Central Standard Time, rchilton@auracom.com writes: > Mike Stackpole set up a page asking for support: > http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/appeal.html > What Stackpole isn't saying here is that tie-in series books get payed a small amount with no residuals for sales, as opposed to original novels. I can't speak for the Battletech and Star Wars novels he writes but I know that Star Trek novels pay the writers from $1000 to $2500 each, with no residuals. For most people a tie-in novel is 2-3 months work. If he had ever written an original book that sold as well as his worst selling Star Wars novel, he would not be in financial difficulty. Glen Cook has never told me even approximately what he has made per novel, but I doubt if most of his novels sold for more than a low 4 figure advance with small residuals. Unfortunately for all of us, he has never exactly been a best selling writer. What Glen ought to do is get Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings) to buy the film rights to the Black Company and Garrett series for less than standard rate plus about a 2% gross residual on the films. If the films got made he would never have to worry about money again.... Michael W Sweet ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Lefman Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 26 Jan 2002 12:21:18 +0000 Stackpole's problem is he catered too much to the fanboy market and not enough to his own work. Sure, he's got to make a living and he started relatively young doing something he enjoys. But, would you rather have 34 so-so books to your credit and only $2500 a piece in the bank or would you rather have 5 really good books with $10000 a piece? I do think he is doing something good to help his situation by going to the public and marketing his work. He's not sitting on his @$$ and complaining. (BTW, I have all of the Rogue Squadron books and several other Star Wars books he has written.) BaronetCorvu@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/02 4:01:53 PM Central Standard Time, > rchilton@auracom.com writes: > > > Mike Stackpole set up a page asking for support: > > http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/appeal.html > > > > What Stackpole isn't saying here is that tie-in series books get payed a > small amount with no residuals for sales, as opposed to original novels. I > can't speak for the Battletech and Star Wars novels he writes but I know that > Star Trek novels pay the writers from $1000 to $2500 each, with no residuals. > For most people a tie-in novel is 2-3 months work. If he had ever written > an original book that sold as well as his worst selling Star Wars novel, he > would not be in financial difficulty. > > Glen Cook has never told me even approximately what he has made per novel, > but I doubt if most of his novels sold for more than a low 4 figure advance > with small residuals. Unfortunately for all of us, he has never exactly been > a best selling writer. > > What Glen ought to do is get Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings) to buy the > film rights to the Black Company and Garrett series for less than standard > rate plus about a 2% gross residual on the films. If the films got made he > would never have to worry about money again.... > > Michael W Sweet > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Klobas@aol.com Subject: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 26 Jan 2002 18:40:11 EST Coincidentally, I read the story 'Sandkings' just last week. One of the most exhilarating reading experiences I've had in quite some time. Fabulous story. I've read most of Martin's output (after discovering him through his Song of Fire & Ice series), including _Tuf Voyaging_. I thought that _TV_ didn't work well as a fix-up novel, but some of the stories, in particular 'The Plague Star' were excellent reads. S. Klobas << If you want to try some of Martin's other writing, I'd suggest "Tuf Voyaging" (novel) and "Sandkings" (short stories). Both are excellent though probably out of print >> ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lawrence Jenab" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 26 Jan 2002 17:47:54 -0600 I loved Sandkings--thought the Showtime adaptation was lame, though. I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does it get better? > > << If you want to try some of Martin's other writing, I'd suggest > "Tuf Voyaging" (novel) and "Sandkings" (short stories). Both are > excellent though probably out of print >> > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Allen Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 27 Jan 2002 10:00:24 +1000 MUCH better.. give it a chance, it's all setting a stage. Tell me what you think after finishing the second book. I bet you'll be in love. They are full of gritty realism, so I can't see a Glen Cook fan not liking them. At 05:47 26/01/02 -0600, you wrote: >I loved Sandkings--thought the Showtime adaptation was lame, though. > >I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does >it get better? > > > > > << If you want to try some of Martin's other writing, I'd suggest > > "Tuf Voyaging" (novel) and "Sandkings" (short stories). Both are > > excellent though probably out of print >> > > > > ======================================================================= > > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > > visit . > > > > > >======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 26 Jan 2002 22:49:14 -0600 Michael, "What Glen ought to do is get Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings) to buy the film rights to the Black Company" Scary thought! A fully realized "BC: The Movie" would be quite chilling. I don't think it would really work: LotR aside, heroic fantasy movies just don't make significant amounts of money. Yes, Schwartzenegger got his start with a fairly skillful "Conan the Barbarian", but the series went swiftly down hill, and even the first was a flash in the pan. Damn, I'd love to see it realized: Catcher (spooky!), the transformation of The Lady from a dream to a reality scarier than the dream, the Plain of Fear, the palpable fear of the Dominator hanging over all... But I think we'll have to be satisfied with our individual imaginations. And mine's better than anyone else's, so there! :) Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: malik coates Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 27 Jan 2002 02:02:45 -0800 Lawrence Jenab wrote: >I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does >it get better? > yes. ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fraser Ronald Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) E-Books. Date: 27 Jan 2002 06:26:29 -0800 (PST) Actually, the maiden issue of "Sword's Edge", which is the new AtFantasy Alliance e-zine, is all about e-books. It's got sample chapters from two, a short story from an upcoming collection and a review of "Way of the Wolf" by E. E. Knight. Check it out at: http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge Shameless plug as I'm the editor! Fraser Ronald Editor, "Sword's Edge" (http://www.atfantasy.com/swords_edge) Admin, AtFantasy Alliance Fiction Archive (http://www.atfantasy.com/fiction) ". . . but the power of sentences has nothing to do with their sense or the logic of their construction." Joseph Conrad, "Lord Jim" --- Dkord wrote: > If anyone has a > good link to some great fantasy/Sci-Fi E-books I > would appreciate them. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Igor Filippov Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 27 Jan 2002 14:58:01 -0500 (EST) "Heroic fantasy movies don't make significant amounts of money" - how about "Mummy" and "Tomb Raider" and "Indiana Jones" and many, many more ? The thing is - imho - it's hard to make a _good_ fantasy movie and not to fall into cliche. Much easier to make Titanics and harvest oscars. Igor On Sat, 26 Jan 2002, Steve Harris wrote: > Michael, > > "What Glen ought to do is get Peter Jackson (Lord of the Rings) to buy > the > film rights to the Black Company" > > Scary thought! A fully realized "BC: The Movie" would be quite chilling. > > I don't think it would really work: LotR aside, heroic fantasy movies > just don't make significant amounts of money. Yes, Schwartzenegger got > his start with a fairly skillful "Conan the Barbarian", but the series > went swiftly down hill, and even the first was a flash in the pan. > > Damn, I'd love to see it realized: Catcher (spooky!), the > transformation of The Lady from a dream to a reality scarier than the > dream, the Plain of Fear, the palpable fear of the Dominator hanging > over all... > > But I think we'll have to be satisfied with our individual imaginations. > And mine's better than anyone else's, so there! :) > > Steve > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Chilton Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 27 Jan 2002 16:53:30 -0400 Igor Filippov wrote: > > "Heroic fantasy movies don't make significant amounts of money" - > how about "Mummy" and "Tomb Raider" and "Indiana Jones" and many, > many more ? There's a difference between pulp and heroic fantasy. Pulp action movies make money while heroic fantasy (with few exceptions) don't. Dragonslayer, Ladyhawk, and others of that type don't make the money Mummy did. Putting it another way - change the mummies to international terrorists and shift the setting a bit and you still have the same fight scene - the special effects might be a bit different, but the thing driving the movie (action) is the same. Take a classic like Lord of the Rings with a huge build in audience. This Lord of the Rings may make money, but the last attempt at the project (mixing animation and live action shots) didn't. It tanked and took the film's creator's career down the toilet. > The thing is - imho - it's hard to make a _good_ fantasy movie > and not to fall into cliche. Much easier to make Titanics and harvest > oscars. > (Note - I'm not in the movie industry but I think most people who are will agree with the stuff below.) Not only is it hard to make the movie it's very hard to get money to make one. Tell someone you'll making "war movie meets Tatanic" and they'll bankroll something like Pearl Habour and watch the money roll in. Tell them you want to make a heroic fantasy movie and if it's not action pulp it won't get funded. There's reasons why Lord of the Rings wasn't made by a big Hollywood studio - and one of them is called "Dungeons and Dragons the Movie". The studio heads take one look at the bottom line of past failures and either kill the project or scale it back to a small budget B movie. Thinking of the first Black Company book, I can't see how it can be made into a movie. The characters don't have enough scenes where they shine, and when they done they are usually driven by horrific "you can't film it that way" situations. The cold blooded killing of Raven's wife - I can't see that in a movie. Not without so much of a build up to explain it that Raven's character is revealed when he joins the Black Company. Croaker's pity for the dead babies, that might get in. Raven's cold heart being touched by watching a little mute girl being raped - the rape scene would never make it so they'd need another way to introduce Darling. Heck even the Black Company raping and burning at Whisper's camp would have to be cut - and without scenes like those the heart is gone from the story. Worse, the villians in the first book (Limper, Soulcatcher at the end) aren't pure black. Cook's characters are in some cases too complicated, too morally grey to be the focus of a movie with a decent budget - unless you try a long movie like Dune. That leaves it as a small budget production which means little for sets and costume and not enough filming time to get the perfect shot. It could work as an animated venture - in a few years when process that made Final Fantasy becomes more affordable a small production company might be able to make a series out of the Black Company or a long movie. One problem would be finding an audience. One of speciality channels might handle it but if it's too explicit, violent, or doesn't fit the tastes of the day it might be a straight to video release (if that). Richard ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Harris Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Speaking of supporting authors... Date: 27 Jan 2002 17:29:09 -0600 Igor, "how about "Mummy" and "Tomb Raider" and "Indiana Jones"" Not heroic fantasy, any of them. One of the chief defining points of heroic fantasy is that it be in a strictly non-industrial context, roughly the same technology level as medieval Europe (or earlier); it is highly important to each of those movies that the hero/ine be a 20th century figure, the better to engage the empathies of the audience. It's the distancing effect of a non-industrial society that is one of the major reasons that heroic fantasy doesn't do Really Well for general audiences--with the very welcome exception of LotR! I think that comes of Tolkien's genius in making such an engaging story, combined with Jackson's extraorinarily fine realization. (Yeah, it would be neat to have Jackson to "BC the Movie"...) Steve ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "C.L. Yona" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 27 Jan 2002 18:26:29 -0500 >I loved Sandkings--thought the Showtime adaptation was lame, though. > >I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does >it get better? Stick with it. I gave up in the first 100 pages too until someone practically ordered me to pick it up again. I'm thankful they did. With the Black Company finished I'd say it's the best series currently being written. yer dog www.thegriffin.com Reviews and previews of all things fantasy ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dr. Elmo" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 28 Jan 2002 09:02:08 -0600 Lawrence Jenab wondered aloud to the group: >I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does >it get better? I feel obliged to give a countervailing opinion. No, it does not get better. In fact, in at least one significant respect, it gets worse: It has no ending. Like the worst of the rest of the giant fantasy trilogies Martin is consciously emulating, the end of volume I is not the end of a story, it's just the place where he hit his contractually-mandated wordcount. That's something that Cook's original Black Company series got right: each book of the trilogy ended a story, even as threads continued on. Martin is capable of innovation, insight, and real human drama. I can't fault him intellectually for setting that aside to make a pile of money by writing books that might as well be stamped "David Drake" or "David Farland" or "Terry Brooks" or "L.E. Modisette Jr.", but I can still fault him creatively. The world did not need another Wonder Bread fantasy series, and it definitely needs more George R. R. Martin stories. -- "The museum boasted owning the original version of Beethoven's unfinished basement."--Steve Connelly Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PrimalChrome" Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 28 Jan 2002 09:27:29 -0600 Is that Troll I smell, or do you honestly feel that any story written should fit between the bindings of a single book? I like it when a book closes an aspect of a storyline, but I also realize that an author's work shouldn't be constrained by the requirements of his publisher. Sure, a fair amount of epic fantasy is drek....or meat coated in a lot of filler....but condemning an entire style of storytelling seems a bit myopic. Martin's series may not close the curtains with the final page, but it does do a good job of dimming the lights until the next one appears on the shelves. It's far from perfect, but no where close to the cookie cutter story you're attempting to make it out to be... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 9:02 AM > Lawrence Jenab wondered aloud to the group: > >I'm just 100 pages into the Game of Thrones, and it's not wowing me. Does > >it get better? > > I feel obliged to give a countervailing opinion. No, it does not get > better. In fact, in at least one significant respect, it gets worse: It has > no ending. Like the worst of the rest of the giant fantasy trilogies > Martin is consciously emulating, the end of volume I is not the end of a > story, it's just the place where he hit his contractually-mandated wordcount. > > That's something that Cook's original Black Company series got right: each > book of the trilogy ended a story, even as threads continued on. > > Martin is capable of innovation, insight, and real human drama. I can't > fault him intellectually for setting that aside to make a pile of money by > writing books that might as well be stamped "David Drake" or "David > Farland" or "Terry Brooks" or "L.E. Modisette Jr.", but I can still fault > him creatively. The world did not need another Wonder Bread fantasy > series, and it definitely needs more George R. R. Martin stories. > -- > "The museum boasted owning the original version of Beethoven's unfinished > basement."--Steve Connelly > > Dr.Elmo@whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/ > Stratagem Ideaware http://monstereditor.sourceforge.net/Stratagem.html > > > ======================================================================= > To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, > visit . > ======================================================================= To unsubscribe, subscribe, or access the archives of this list, visit . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Herrmann Subject: Re: (glencook-fans) Re: glencook-fans-digest V1 #159 Date: 28 Jan 2002 08:42:53 -0700 on 1/28/02 8:27 AM, PrimalChrome at chrome@wwisp.com wrote: > Is that Troll I smell, or do you honestly feel that any story written should > fit between the bindings of a single book? I like it when a book closes an > aspect of a storyline, but I also realize that an author's work shouldn't be > constrained by the requirements of his publisher. Sure, a fair amount of > epic fantasy is drek....or meat coated in a lot of filler....but condemning > an entire style of storytelling seems a bit myopic. Martin's series may not > close the curtains with the final page, but it does do a good job of dimming > the lights until the next one appears on the shelves. It's far from > perfect, but no where close to the cookie cutter story you're attempting to > make it out to be... Let's remember what the main topic of this list is. Compare and contrast authors of authors is acceptable as long as one of them is C