From: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com (kraftwerk-digest) To: kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: kraftwerk-digest V2 #47 Reply-To: kraftwerk-digest Sender: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-kraftwerk-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes kraftwerk-digest Thursday, February 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 047 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:43:45 -0000 From: "Jules Seifert" Subject: Re: (kw) Weird (but true) story jbv spewed:- > >Does anyone have a clue on that ? Is it just peanuts, or do I have a >collector which is worth 10 millions $ ? > Well, if you have a 10 million dollar copy, then so do I. It happens on mine too. ciao, Jules # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:42:43 +0000 From: Chris Lee Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk 1 & 2 question lbo wrote: > maybe in the cd edition you don't see the pictures of a flower-power > Florian with long hair and elephant legs trousers that where on the double > album... Oh yes, you get the pictures alright. At least you do in the Germanofon releases. Cheers, Chris Lee # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:31:25 MET-1 From: Emanuel Mair Subject: (kw) ZKM song 2 Greetings! Has anybody managed to dl the complete 2:nd untitled ZKM song in mpeg-audio format via John Talbert's site? I get an average dl rate at ~~150 cps no matter which time of day I try, so with the Swedish phone rates it's simply not possible. If you have got it, I'd be much obliged if you could upload it to your homepage or mail it directly to me (mail me first for confirmation so that I don't have to get my diskquota totally crammed). If I get the file, I'll naturally make it available via my homepage. If anbody missed the 1:st "ZKM song" or the "Tribal Gathering song", they're also available at my homepage (in mpeg(3)-audio): http://medstud.gu.se/~mair/kw.html - -- E m a n u e l M a i r ________________________________________ e@mair.com mair@medstud.gu.se Procul, o procul este, profani! http://medstud.gu.se/~mair * t e a m A M I G A * .-. .- -.. .. --- -....- .- -.- - .. ...- .. - .-.- - ...-.- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:07:06 PST From: "Pete Liethen" Subject: Re: (kw) ZKM song 2 >Has anybody managed to dl the complete 2:nd untitled ZKM song in >mpeg-audio format via John Talbert's site? I get an average dl rate at >~~150 cps no matter which time of day I try, so with the Swedish phone >rates it's simply not possible. You can get it from my super-fast web server at: http://petenet.dragonfire.net/kraftwerk/KW_ZKM_U.ZIP The URL is case sensitive ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:03:40 -0800 From: **************** Subject: (kw) Electronic orgasm - NGD (81,82,83,84) I was hit with an overwhelming wave of pleasure and a whiff of nostalgia = when listening to New Gold Dream (81,82,83,84) by Simple Minds today. = For a moment when the album was released it seemed as though Simple = Minds would develop into the biggest band in the world. This moment = passed and U2 raced ahead.=20 Despite been beaten by U2, Simple Minds had with NGD (81,82,83,84) = produced one of the most INFLUENTIAL and BEST ELECTRONIC albums of all = time. Simple Minds with the assistance of Peter Walsh effortlessly = produced beautiful melodies, backed with surreal electronic soundscapes, = showing you can HAVE IT ALL. Tracks such as Glittering Prize, Somewhere = In Summertime and Promised You A Miracle set new standards in the race = to manufacture concise and elegant electronic music which maintained a = human face. Whilst bands like Erasure and PSBs produced ineffectual and ultimately = worthless electronic albums that went bleep bleep blurp, SM and others = such as Godley and Creme provided the basis for a different progression = from Numan and HL than Kraftwerk did with CW and Electric Cafe.=20 In the years following its release Simple Minds were never able to = recapture the exuberance and exhilaration of NGD. Band members were cast = overboard (allegedly in an attempt by Kerr and Burchill to take a bigger = percentage of the profits) until only Kerr and Burchill remained. = Several studio albums followed each successively selling less than its = predecessor did. In 1995 Good News From The Next World was released = which will probably prove to be their commercial and artistic nadir. Since 1995 there have been no new releases from SM. The current issue of = 'Q' magazine has a feature on the new work SM have recently completed. = For the first time since NGD they have worked with Peter Walsh, = additionally original bassist Derek Forbes has been recalled. The new = album is lavish in its use of synthesizers and apparently evokes = favourable comparison with NGD. The excitement of hearing NGD was only = comparable with the excitement of meeting a new woman. Therefore I am = keenly looking forward to the new SM album.=20 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:04:02 -0800 From: **************** Subject: RE: (kw) The Third World In reply to jbv, Eric wrote: >Umm...that's making the assumption that doing that cover wasn't her = idea. AFAIK, it was. All the covers (which I think ws the whole album, but I can't remember) were songs she grew up listening to and wanted to record herself. Personally I thought it was a weak album, especially since I thought "Diva" was an excellent pop disc. < I am in complete agreement with the points you make. Medussa does indeed = contain personal favourites of Annie Lennox rather than the record = company. Indeed, I'm sure the record company would have chosen more = commercially successful songs. Indeed Annie Lennox has always appeared intelligent and independent in = interviews. I can't imagine her doing something against her will. Lets = not forget that Annie Lennox contributed much to the development of = electronic music with the early Eurythmics albums - In the garden, Sweet = Dreams, Touch and 1984. mode.123 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:41:38 -0500 From: "A. D. Alvarez" Subject: Re: (kw) Electronic orgasm - NGD (81,82,83,84) <> Someone, please let me know why people have to put something down to exalt something else. It's counterproductive and certainly doesn't shine well on both object of praise and critic. - -- Aldo Alvarez Editor Blithe House Quarterly: a site for gay short fiction URL: http://www.spectra.net/~aalvarez/BHQ.html # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:45:14 +0100 From: "Kotta" Subject: RE: (kw) Weird (but true) story jbv asked:- >>Does anyone have a clue on that ? Is it just peanuts, or do I have a >>collector which is worth 10 millions $ ? >> Jules hopefully:- >Well, if you have a 10 million dollar copy, then so do I. It happens on mine >too. > well, it doesn't on mine! (english version), no $ for me. :( /Kotta # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 23:10:47 -0800 From: **************** Subject: (kw) Do Kraftwerk make their own albums? jbv wrote: >Anyway it raises a few questions like : does anyone at EMI check the matrix before starting to duplicate ? And more important : don't KW attend the mastering sessions of their albums ?< You ask 2 excellent questions. Perhaps EMI can directly provide an = answer to your first question. Unfortunately extrapolating an answer to = your second question may be more difficult! Therefore, let us expand the = question and speculate.....The question in its new form is...."How much = involvement do Kraftwerk have in the making of their own albums?" I will = consider each of the different phases of an albums manufacture and mark = H & S out of 10 on each: 1) The concept (5/10) Although Kraftwerk were once known for developing a 'theme' through an = album, EC and The Mix have arguably changed this. I'll hedge my bets = here. H & S have probably developed concepts with the assistance of = others including Emil Schult. 2) Choosing instrumentation (5/10) Kraftwerk have worked with engineers and synth manufacturers to push = back the boundaries of technology. Despite providing more input at this = stage than most other groups they have increasingly relied on = off-the-shelf kit. 3) Laying down the initial tracks (10/10) Here I would suggest Kraftwerk have operated with a large degree of = autonomy at Kling-Klang. Despite wasting much time drinking coffee and = boring KB senseless with discussion of bicycles their input at this = stage can not be falted. 4) Album recording and mixing (4/10) Often outside engineers have been brought in. Kervorkian, Orbit etc in = more recent times. Even Man Machine received an outside mix. Their = dependance on external mixers has occassionally disappointed me. 5) Mastering etc (3/10) JBV questioned this stage. There is little evidence to suggest they have = much involvement here. 5) Marketing / Promotion (1/10) Kraftwerk have done very little to assist in the promotion of their = records. Making more effort in this area may have turned them into a = massive commerical success. mode.123 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:40:07 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Weird (but true) story Kotta wrote: > > jbv asked:- > >>Does anyone have a clue on that ? Is it just peanuts, or do I have a > >>collector which is worth 10 millions $ ? > >> > Jules hopefully:- > >Well, if you have a 10 million dollar copy, then so do I. It happens on > mine > >too. > > > > well, it doesn't on mine! (english version), no $ for me. > :( > > /Kotta > So, this is the 20 millions $ list. So far... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:53:24 -0500 From: Fred_Harding%IDX1@idx.com Subject: (kw) pet shop boys. was this an honest to goodness thread? the logic is rather bizzarre....okay, so, if buddy holly sounds like shit compared to say the pet shop boys, (and he does), that negates the importance and beauty of buddy's work? i don't think so... here's why the comparison is faulty. the pet shop boys (as far as i know) didn't need to rework their synths to get the sounds they wanted...they came from the factory just fine for them. they didn't need to invent their own percussion, they didn't need to do much beyond write their songs. no building studios, nothing... i could be wrong...i'm just guessing, actually. even if i am wrong, i'm guessing the "specs" behind a pet shop boys studio wouldn't involve much beyond installing existing equipment. i won't argue the merits of their music, since i'll admit i know nothing of it beyond the hits. still, when you hear an echo, or a trill at the end of a passage on a kw song, realize that it may have taken a bit more work than it did later on in the era. the same holds true for buddy holly. realise that he was overdubbing his own voice, or that earlier - les paul was overdubbing his own guitar, and manipulating tape!! - these are innovations that pale in comparison to later recordings, but, the charm is in listening to them and realising what it took to get THAT SOUND! that's the charm of kraftwerk. sure, latter day "techno pop" may shine brighter, but, the allure is something quite different. as for the minimalist lyrics, and composition, they're aquired tastes. i wouldn't expect (and i'm not being a snob here) a fan of modern techno pop to be blown away by kraftwerk. it takes a little work (no pun intended) to find the charm. kraftwerk, while dabbling in pop, are much more obtuse than the "average band". minimalism isn't supposed to hit you the same way a sugar coated pop song is. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:04:27 MET-1 From: Emanuel Mair Subject: Re: (kw) ZKM song 2 On 04-Feb-98 A.D., Pete Liethen carved the following runes about "Re: (kw) ZKM song 2": >You can get it from my super-fast web server at: >http://petenet.dragonfire.net/kraftwerk/KW_ZKM_U.ZIP Thanks! Now it's also available at my homepage, but the URL I mailed before was incorrect. It should be: http://medstud.gu.se/~mair/lager/kw.html - -- E m a n u e l M a i r ________________________________________ e@mair.com mair@medstud.gu.se Procul, o procul este, profani! http://medstud.gu.se/~mair * t e a m A M I G A * .-. .- -.. .. --- -....- .- -.- - .. ...- .. - .-.- - ...-.- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:53:49 EST From: SRRecords@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) Do Kraftwerk make their own albums? >4) Album recording and mixing (4/10) >Often outside engineers have been brought in. Kervorkian, Orbit etc in more >recent times. Even Man Machine received an outside mix. Their dependance on >external mixers has occassionally disappointed I read on the Cleopatra release of Trans Europe Express that one of the engineers during mixdown was Bill Halverson at the Record Plant in Hollywood.....I was wondering - is this also on the original? (remember that this is the same release that has the lyrics as "elegence and thick curtains......" so I have to wonder.) The reason I ask is because I went to a small engineering school in Ohio a few years ago and Bill Halverson was the 'guest speaker.' He couldn't stop talking about the killer guitar sound he used to get with some famous rock star in the 70's.......... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:06:35 EST From: SRRecords@aol.com Subject: Re: (kw) pet shop boys. >here's why the comparison is faulty. the pet shop boys (as far as i know) >didn't need to rework their synths to get the sounds they wanted...they >came from the factory just fine for them. they didn't need to invent their >own percussion, they didn't need to do much beyond write their songs. no >building studios, nothing... >i could be wrong...i'm just guessing, actually. even if i am wrong, i'm >guessing the "specs" behind a pet shop boys studio wouldn't involve much >beyond installing existing equipment. Well - if you listen closely to Computer World, you realize that most of the sounds are very easy to achieve with some pretty normal analog synthesizers. I'm guessing the "main" drum sounds were triggered by the percussionists but I'm also guessing that a lot of the "percussive" type sounds (especially the clicks in Numbers and Computer World II) were programmed with the MC-8 they were using. This sound (as well as nearly every bass sound, plink, bleep, bloop, and staccato sound) is very very easy for me to duplicate using my MC-4 and some synthesizers.............and if I put the drums through a pitch shifter with the feedback quite high, I get the *exact* same effect that the drums on Numbers have - that of a "boing" quality. The most interesting aspects of Computer World intellectually, for me, are the vocal aspects, the strange start-stop abrubt reverb endings mainly found on Home Computer (which I think were done with tape loops or some other tape-based technique), and the sheer extent of the programming of the MC-8 involved. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:40:39 -0700 (MST) From: Ra Subject: Re: (kw) Electronic orgasm - NGD (81,82,83,84) On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, **************** wrote: > Despite been beaten by U2, Simple Minds had with NGD (81,82,83,84) >produced one of the most INFLUENTIAL and BEST ELECTRONIC albums of all ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ooo! Keywords! Folks, always remember to use those words when talking about an album, KW or not. :) Well, now that I've been goaded into posting on the topic, I might as well state my position. I like the KW list as it is. I like to see some comparative discussion of KW versus other groups, as long as a thread doesn't totally diverge into something that belongs elsewhere. I don't mind getting deluges of mail from the list. I usually just skim for things that interest me anyway. My only gripe is that some people tend to over-react or be unduly... uhm... _forceful_ in expressing their opinions. There's nothing wrong with having strong opinions. I have some myself. But let's try to keep a civil keyboard. /* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs * * "The human race believes in not taking its problems seriously * enough to solve them." - Celia Green */ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 05:43:50 +0100 From: lbo Subject: Re: (kw) Electronic orgasm - NGD (81,82,83,84) >I was hit with an overwhelming wave of pleasure and a whiff of nostalgia >when listening to New Gold Dream (81,82,83,84) by Simple Minds today. >For a moment when the album was released it seemed as though Simple >Minds would develop into the biggest band in the world. This moment passed >and U2 raced ahead. well, I have a theory of my own about NGD, and I'll write it down when then new wave will be in the textbooks of the schools like literature, and it's that NGD represented the acme of it all. '84 was a nodal point for new wave. some groups at last capitalized on their first, more "minimal" efforts made in the period in which a sinth and a drum machine was enough (think to the first Human League, or Depeche Mode, or the same first Simple Minds), so if from one side it get completely away with the "you don't have to be a rock star to do it" spirit of the beginning (an attitude that begun with punk and that I somewhat see on the new electro and trance scene), from the other side produced something of the best music ever heard, NGD, Trevor Horn's Propaganda, U2 Pride... club life were so nice and I was 14 year younger. after it... well, I see a sort of stagnation. further Simple Minds album were brilliant, of course, but they become too mainstream, they learned to play and this ruined them (listen to "The Americans" or "Themes for great cities", when they didn't know how to play... that was great...). and after it we had cover on cover, revival and all that involuted stuff. ok, absolutely no K content on this... >Whilst bands like Erasure and PSBs produced ineffectual and ultimately >worthless electronic albums that went bleep bleep blurp, SM and others such I won't say Erasure and PSB are so worthless... what should we say about some New Order outlets, then? they are bands that built their consensus over a good quality musical product, even if sometimes with little personality, and a sort of musician-listener empathy. their songs are deliberately smooth no-pretense danse songs, they make an easy living with that, and their public project themselves in this smoothiness. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:35:16 EST From: n8tlc@juno.com (Bill Dobiesz) Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk 1 & 2 question On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:11:10 -0500 (EST) Chris Harback writes: > > >Hello everyone, > >I'm very new to this list, so please excuse me if this question has >been asked ad nauseum in the past. > >I've finally tracked down Kraftwerk 1 and Kraftwerk 2 on CD-- the >unofficial Germanofon releases, but before I buy them (at $25 each! >Ow!) I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to preview them >for me. In other works, what should I expect? I own Ralf & Florian on >vinyl, and it's by far my favorite Kraftwerk, so I hope that these two >albums have a similar sound. I have the albums Kraftwerk (Kraftwerk 1?) and Kraftwerk 2...I have never heard Ralf & Florian, so I can't really tell you how they vary. On playing these for a friend of mine, he remarked that it is definately "stoner" music. I don't know about that, but it is a neat effect. Probably the way I would describe them is to describe it track-by track. Personally, I consider Kraftwerk to not be my favorite - Kraftwerk 2 and Autobahn are my favorites. The Kraftwerk 2 is a Germanofon, and my Kraftwerk is a Gema with a "bonus track" that may well not be on the Germanofon release. I paid $7 used for the Kraftwerk 2, and $32 for the Kraftwerk. The Kraftwerk 2 I consider to be one of the best deals I've ever gotten on a record, and I would have paid $25 for it...Kraftwerk though...I probably would have left it behind...although I've got it now, and I am keeping it. The interesting thing to note is that these albums were done without the synths that were the mainstay of their music from Autobahn on. Yet, they are very much like their later music, they were able to play "conventional" instruments (guitar, organ, flute, violin, drums, etc) in the style which we have gotten to know and love. I don't speak (much) German myself, the English translations of the titles were done for me, so I don't know how correct they are. Times are after the translations. Kraftwerk: 1) Ruckzuck (Quick & Fast) 7:47 I don't know quite how to describe this other than it involves "nested" syncopated rythyms, and is my second favorite song on this album. 2) Stratovarius (Stratovarius) 12:10 My second least favorite Kraftwerk song...sounds like instruments playing along with a badly tuned and played violin. 3) Megaherz (Megahertz) 9:30 Interesting play in sounds available with these instruments. I like this one. 4) Vom Himmel Hoch (From Heaven High) 10:12 Without a doubt, my favorite song from this album. Sounds like airplanes flying overhead, a variety of them, continuing to a variety of other sounds. Overall, I like this track a lot. The stereo effects on this cut are pretty good. 5) Ruckzuck (recorded live in Cologne 1975) 9:25 A synth version of Ruckzuck. Interesting. Kraftwerk 2 1) Klingklang (Ding Dong) 17:36 My favorite Kraftwerk song. Starts with noise (reminding me of banging pipes or bells) then moves into a rather harmonious part. This is in like four "movements", plus an it=nteresting trick where it appears that the record is speeding up and slowing down, then it acts as though the turntable has been unplugged as the music pitch and tempo slowly grinds to a halt and stops...after several seconds, it picks up again, but in a different movement. I have adopted this cut as my personal theme song. I love it. 2) Atem (Breath) 2:57 The title describes it better than I could. I personally find it highly annoying, and it is undoubtedly my least liked Kraftwerk song. 3) Strom (Electricty) 3:52 The intro...I can just picture a guitar spitting out sparks and flames while someone tries to play it anyway. After the intro, becomes a very mello interplay of guitar and other instruments. 4) Spule 4 (there is some ambiguity of the translation of Spule - it can mean spool, coil, solenoid or bobbin depending on the context) 5:20 This is another one that is difficult to describe. 5) Wellenlange (Wavelength - actually the a has 2 dots over it, and I can't do it with this English language software) 9:40 Another sensitive interplay. It's hard to tell where track 4 ends and track 5 begins if you aren't watching the counter. 6) Harmonika (Harmonica) 3:17 Another well described song. Sounds like a harmonica. Hope this helps! Bill Dobiesz N8TLC "Huggy Bear" n8tlc@juno.com Fido 1:120/650 ITCnet 85:871/851 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 22:51:17 -0500 From: muziknut2@juno.com (Adam Schefflan) Subject: (kw) Fed up with EMI? Can you believe that there's no mention at all of a certain band at EMI's 100th anniversary website (http://www.emi100.com)? I think I smell a conspiracy. Speaking of EMI's vast catalog, check out "Merenexitos," on EMI Latin (H2-23390 or 7243 8 23390 2 1). Merengue's one of the music world's best-kept secrets! Peace. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:50:00 +0000 From: Mark Reed Subject: (kw) Electronic orgasm >listening to New Gold Dream (81,82,83,84) by Simple Minds today. Oops. This is a Kraftwerk list, and if I wanted to listen to complacent formless stadium rock..well, I wouldn't be here. Much I hate to say this Simple Minds records just don't stand up as of any artistic or musical worth. Any band dull enough to put out a double live album as dreary as "Live In the City of Light" with its crowd pleasing drum solos, extended workouts, etc.. really should be rationed to making less records. Whilst some of the PSB/Erasure records may sound a bit dated now due to the nature of the technology, they were using the lyric content and artistic vision seems more perceptive than the dull rock platitudes. No offence to anyone, this is just my opinion. Just listen to the new Kraftwerk stuff, and if you forget who it is that's making it, it's bloody good. If you listen to it, compared to the peerless 1976-86 material, maybe it suffers, but on it's own terms independent of the wealth of history that in a way dwarfs Kraftwerk's own musical output., it stands on it's own. Maybe Kraftwerk's past is paralysing their future moves... - -- Mark Reed # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:08:53 +0100 From: jbv Subject: Re: (kw) Do Kraftwerk make their own albums? SRRecords@aol.com wrote: > > >4) Album recording and mixing (4/10) > >Often outside engineers have been brought in. Kervorkian, Orbit etc in more > >recent times. Even Man Machine received an outside mix. Their dependance on > >external mixers has occassionally disappointed > > I read on the Cleopatra release of Trans Europe Express that one of the > engineers during mixdown was Bill Halverson at the Record Plant in > Hollywood.....I was wondering - is this also on the original? (remember that > this is the same release that has the lyrics as "elegence and thick > curtains......" so I have to wonder.) The reason I ask is because I went to a > small engineering school in Ohio a few years ago and Bill Halverson was the > 'guest speaker.' He couldn't stop talking about the killer guitar sound he > used to get with some famous rock star in the 70's.......... > That's incredible, man ! Listen : on the 1977 vinyl copy of TEE I have, Bill Halverson is also credited as engineer. And according to a 1976 interview of R&F I posted earlier (it's somewhere at Klaus site) they say that they did the final mix of that LP at the Record Plant in L.A. And, believe it or not, I've been thinking for a while that it could be fairly possible to track down the man, lock him somewhere, and try to get his memories about those mix sessions. Is there anything you could do ? I'm sure lots of people on this list would be thrilled by that... jbv # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:40:56 -0000 From: "Jules Seifert" Subject: Re: (kw) pet shop boys. [uk] > >here's why the comparison is faulty. the pet shop boys (as far as I know) >didn't need to rework their synths to get the sounds they wanted...they >came from the factory just fine for them. they didn't need to invent their >own percussion, they didn't need to do much beyond write their songs. no >building studios, nothing... > Nothing. Yep, that just about sums up PSB. Preset sounds, preset songs. Is it me, or do they keep releasing the same song? > >I could be wrong...I'm just guessing, actually. even if I am wrong, I'm >guessing the "specs" behind a pet shop boys studio wouldn't involve much >beyond installing existing equipment. > hehe, agreed. 'Hey Neil, when I press the demo button, start the damn tape deck and sing in the monotone voice you usually sing in' ;-) Jules # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:05:08 +0100 From: Andreas Schepers Subject: (kw) KLINGKLANG vs. EMI hi werkers, i think, you overestimate the role and the function of EMI concerning = KW's productions.... IMHO, EMI is just the *distributor* of KLING-KLANG releases. KK is still = an independent label. and if EMI really woundn't be satisfied with recent KW works, as the = roumor says, any other majorlabel would be delighted to distribute KW... actually, for EMI disributing KW is no big deal i think. KW is a = self-runner. they wouldn't intervine KW's creative process i suppose... .as - ---- Andreas Schepers NetMedia GmbH=09 Information Design Schubertstra=DFe 8 schepers@net-media.de 66111 Saarbruecken http://www.net-media.de # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:16:49 -0000 From: "Craig Land" Subject: Re: (kw) pet shop boys. [uk] >hehe, agreed. 'Hey Neil, when I press the demo button, start the damn tape >deck and sing in the monotone voice you usually sing in' ;-) ..."When I press the special key, it plays a little melody"!!!!! Now where have we heard that before?!! He, he, he. Craig. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:42:40 +0100 From: Lars Bull Subject: Re: (kw) spudboys and eyeballs Hi everyone! Been a while since I had the time to read the postings. But a posting with both "spud" and "eyeball" i the Subject on the KW-list is a must-read. I raise my dome/top-hat to you Geoff! On a more Kraftwerkian note; any news on any new album from our Dusseldorf friends? No matter how much I like them, I won't wade through 1715 postings. No way! Please, can someone give me the short-version on what's happening and I'll promise to keep up in the future. Thanks! Lars Bull "No RISC - No Fun" MacForum Foreningsgatan 31 411 27 Goteborg Sweden E-Mail: lars.bull@macforum.se WWW: www.macforum.se Fax: +46 31 721 31 01 Telephone: +46 31 721 31 00 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:00:35 GMT From: wootton robin <96188726@brookes.ac.uk> Subject: (kw) it makes me depressed :~( > hehe, agreed. "Hey Neil, when I press the demo button, start the damn > tape deck and sing in the monotone voice you usually sing in" ;-) It's just so frustrating!!!!!! No matter how much I try to reason with you, or how much I gradually stretched you until the joints of your ankles and knees and shoulders and elbows popped apart, and no matter how much you pleaded you were wrong after all, you still wouldn't truly believe you were wrong. But you are very wrong, believe me.. ...if Niel Tennant sings in monotone then what do you call the gormless spoken Kraftwerk voice?! Combined with the type of synth-pop music that Kraftwerk were paving the way towards, such spine-chillingly ahhh-that-hits-the-spot angelic tranquillic emotional singing makes the Pet Shop Boys the best sound ever. It makes me almost tearful to read Kraftwerk fans insulting the groups which Kraftwerk inspired. Especially when vice versa, I recognise how vital Kw were to those later groups sounds... You don't know what your preconceptions and closed-mindedness are causing you to be missing! Kraftwerk was good for it's time... but that time was some time ago! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:23:56 -0700 From: Farki Subject: Re: (kw) it makes me depressed :~( >But you are very wrong, believe me.. ...if Niel Tennant sings in monotone then >what do you call the gormless spoken Kraftwerk voice?! Hmmm... Personally, I prefer the "gormless spoken Kraftwerk voice". >It makes me almost tearful to read Kraftwerk fans insulting the groups which >Kraftwerk inspired. Especially when vice versa, I recognise how vital Kw were >to those later groups sounds... You don't know what your preconceptions and >closed-mindedness are causing you to be missing! Well, I like many other groups beside KW, but not PSB... I think there is no sense to compare KW and PSB. They play totally different music, PSB's sha-la-la music is really far from me (and far from KW's technical music). >Kraftwerk was good for it's time... but that time was some time ago! Really? And when was PSB good? - Farki - # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:05:06 -0000 From: "Jules Seifert" Subject: Re: (kw) it makes me depressed :~( > >It's just so frustrating!!!!!! No matter how much I try to reason with you, or >how much I gradually stretched you until the joints of your ankles and knees >and shoulders and elbows popped apart, and no matter how much you pleaded you >were wrong after all, you still wouldn't truly believe you were wrong. > eh, when did you reason with me? > >But you are very wrong, believe me.. ...if Niel Tennant sings in monotone then >what do you call the gormless spoken Kraftwerk voice?! > I'd call it minimalist. > >It makes me almost tearful to read Kraftwerk fans insulting the groups which >Kraftwerk inspired. Especially when vice versa, I recognise how vital Kw were >to those later groups sounds... You don't know what your preconceptions and >closed-mindedness are causing you to be missing! > erm, I clearly marked the post [uk] didn't I? It was tongue deeply ensconsed in my proverbial cheek. > >Kraftwerk was good for it's time... but that time was some time ago! > You are entitled to your opinion. Jules # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:48:18 -0500 (EST) From: "John B. Morgan" Subject: Re: (kw) Kraftwerk 1 & 2 question On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Bill Dobiesz wrote: > I have the albums Kraftwerk (Kraftwerk 1?) and Kraftwerk 2...I have never > heard Ralf & Florian, so I can't really tell you how they vary. > > On playing these for a friend of mine, he remarked that it is definately > "stoner" music. I don't know about that, but it is a neat effect. Yes, frequently called "ambient" music today. :^) I think a more accurate description of this type of music would be "image" music, in that the largely formless soundscapes possess an uncanny ability to call images to mind. > Probably the way I would describe them is to describe it track-by track. > Personally, I consider Kraftwerk to not be my favorite - Kraftwerk 2 and > Autobahn are my favorites. The Kraftwerk 2 is a Germanofon, and my > Kraftwerk is a Gema with a "bonus track" that may well not be on the > Germanofon release. What is this extra track, anyway? I've heard of it before, but it's never been identified. As an owner of the Germanofon version, I'm curious. John Morgan "'One can't always be high.' Oh no? One The University of Michigan only has to properly orient oneself." jbmorgan@umich.edu --Walter Benjamin http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jbmorgan/ including The Colin Wilson Page # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Email majordomo@xmission.com with "info kraftwerk" in the message. # Postings must go to kraftwerk@xmission.com -- replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of kraftwerk-digest V2 #47 ******************************