From: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com (NGamers-digest) To: ngamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: NGamers-digest V1 #1565 Reply-To: NGamers-digest Sender: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-NGamers-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk NGamers-digest Wednesday, June 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1565 Re: [NG] conker! Re: [NG] Does gamecube have a chance at Number 1 Re: [NG] Sony Re: [NG] Sony Re: [NG] Sony Re: [NG] Sony Re: [NG] Sony Re: [NG] Sony [NG] GCN specs are changed Re: [NG] GCN specs are changed [NG] conker 2 Re: [NG] Does gamecube have a chance at Number 1 Re: [NG] Sony ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:40:30 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] conker! - --part1_b6.16774467.284e9dbe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/05/2001 1:00:41 PM Central Daylight Time, distorbanz@yucom.be writes: > it was the most funny and varied game i ever played > it had everything > > now for a poll: > > what's your favourite chapter part? > > i have to look up the titles again but mine would definetly be something > from "it's war", "mister death" or the matrix scene > i'll decide by tomorrow > steve > Definitely the Bats' Tower chapter. I love it. - -Eric- - --part1_b6.16774467.284e9dbe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/05/2001 1:00:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
distorbanz@yucom.be writes:

it was the most funny and varied game i ever played
it had everything

now for a poll:

what's your favourite chapter part?

i have to look up the titles again but mine would definetly be something
from "it's war", "mister death" or the matrix scene
i'll decide by tomorrow
steve

Definitely the Bats' Tower chapter. I love it.
-Eric- - --part1_b6.16774467.284e9dbe_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:48:39 -0700 From: "Matt MA" Subject: Re: [NG] Does gamecube have a chance at Number 1 I think Vi is right. PS2 will reign at the top again. PS1 was so sucessful = that it created a ton of brand loyalty, even for those who never bought a = PS1. The general public's opinion is that PS1 is the best of the previous = gen, so of course they will associate PS2 as the best of the next gen. = Having the one year head start certainly helps PS2. While PS2 games = haven't been released at the fast pace of PS1, there are still many = quality games out, and many more down the pipeline. I think the more unpredictable battle will be GC vs. X-Box. Although X-Box = is more of a set top box than GC, these consoles will both compete for the = same dollars. X-Box doesn't have a lot of exclusives, and their games have = a heavy PC influence, but I bet they will have a lot of games. I'm = confident that GC will have excellent games, but I'm not convinced (yet) = that they will have a LOT of games, at least not like PS1 did. Having a lot of games will help sell consoles, even if the games are not = the best in quality. I believe that the the general public doesn't care = that much about "high quality" games as much as us hard-core gamers do. = They will buy a lot of sucky games just to pass some time and have fun now = and then. They are not the type to want to "finish" a game. matt ma [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:54:18 EDT From: Nutz4n64@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Sony - --part1_10f.c1796a.284ea0fa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/05/2001 3:31:13 PM Central Daylight Time, kentop3@hotmail.com writes: > I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so > uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name. > Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is the xact > same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. I > have > not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games like > GT > boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big time. > I don't like the Crash games or GT (sim racing, yuck), but I do like RE. I'm not a big fan of Sony, but I do understand that a lot of people like the games on the PSX. It's simply a matter of taste. You may like it, you may hate it. I don't think any two people will agree on every videogame in existence. - -Eric- - --part1_10f.c1796a.284ea0fa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/05/2001 3:31:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
kentop3@hotmail.com writes:

I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so
uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name.
Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is the xact
same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. I
have
not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games like
GT
boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big time.
Sony is terrible.

I don't like the Crash games or GT (sim racing, yuck), but I do like RE. I'm
not a big fan of Sony, but I do understand that a lot of people like the
games on the PSX. It's simply a matter of taste. You may like it, you may
hate it. I don't think any two people will agree on every videogame in
existence.
-Eric- - --part1_10f.c1796a.284ea0fa_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:20:01 EDT From: LARGEEYES@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Sony - --part1_93.b772db8.284ea701_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/01 4:31:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kentop3@hotmail.com writes: > I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so > uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name. > Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is the xact > same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. I > have > not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games like > GT > boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big time. > Those have to be, except maybe the 3rd, the lamest attacks I've ever heard. Who cares what the name is? Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64. Oh, yeah, there's some creativity. I like the controller, and its feel. Plus I don't have to fork over $100 to buy 3 extra ones. Please, Mario 64 has been outdone and surpassed. Play Madden, Red Faction, or even the demo for MGS2. - --part1_93.b772db8.284ea701_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/01 4:31:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentop3@hotmail.com writes:

I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so
uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name.
Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is the xact
same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. I
have
not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games like
GT
boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big time.
Sony is terrible.

Those have to be, except maybe the 3rd, the lamest attacks I've ever heard.
Who cares what the name is? Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64. Oh,
yeah, there's some creativity. I like the controller, and its feel. Plus I
don't have to fork over $100 to buy 3 extra ones. Please, Mario 64 has been
outdone and surpassed. Play Madden, Red Faction, or even the demo for MGS2. - --part1_93.b772db8.284ea701_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:20:00 EDT From: LARGEEYES@aol.com Subject: Re: [NG] Sony - --part1_37.162259ac.284ea700_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/01 4:43:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vi@cs.bu.edu writes: > I agreed with you on that. I owned a ps2 for 3 months with out a game. > I got bought in by all the hype, used it as a dvd player, and i knew it > has it will last around 4 years. > > yes ps2 has a terrible first year but like most ppl are saying, it's > getting better. If only gamecube came out 1 year ahead of ps2, then > nobody would pay attention to ps2 because of it's crappy first generation > games. > > Madden 2001, Red Faction is now out. There are lots of great games on PS2. SSX??? - --part1_37.162259ac.284ea700_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/5/01 4:43:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vi@cs.bu.edu
writes:

I agreed with you on that. I owned a ps2 for 3 months with out a game.
I got bought in by all the hype, used it as a dvd player, and i knew it
has it will last around 4 years.

yes ps2 has a terrible first year but like most ppl are saying, it's
getting better. If only gamecube came out 1 year ahead of ps2, then
nobody would pay attention to ps2 because of it's crappy first generation
games.

-Vi

Madden 2001, Red Faction is now out. There are lots of great games on PS2.
SSX??? - --part1_37.162259ac.284ea700_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:05:55 -0400 From: "geoff wuehrmann" Subject: Re: [NG] Sony Madden 2001 stinks. SSX is good though. >From: LARGEEYES@aol.com >Reply-To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com >To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [NG] Sony >Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:20:00 EDT > >In a message dated 6/5/01 4:43:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vi@cs.bu.edu >writes: > > > > I agreed with you on that. I owned a ps2 for 3 months with out a game. > > I got bought in by all the hype, used it as a dvd player, and i knew it > > has it will last around 4 years. > > > > yes ps2 has a terrible first year but like most ppl are saying, it's > > getting better. If only gamecube came out 1 year ahead of ps2, then > > nobody would pay attention to ps2 because of it's crappy first >generation > > games. > > > > > >Madden 2001, Red Faction is now out. There are lots of great games on PS2. >SSX??? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:34:25 -0500 From: Thraxen Subject: Re: [NG] Sony > I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so > uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name. > Playstation 2, very uncreative. What, kind of like Gameboy (a copy of the Sony scheme for naming portable electronics)...and now the Gameboy Advance. Or how about the NES then the Super NES...how is that creative?? You know what all those have in common? They aren't going after creativity, they are using brand name recognition. It's smart marketing and has ZERO to do with being creative. > Second of all, The controller is the xact > same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. I have > not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games like GT > boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big time. > Sony is terrible. That's all your opinion now isn't it?...I have owned many, many, more PSX games than N64 games. Mario 64 is one damn game...I'm not going to play it over and over. For a platformer, it's quality is undeniable, but there are lots of games that I put more hours into than M64....some of them, hundreds more hours. The N64 had jacksh*t in the RPG department, that alone was reason enough for me to own the PSX. In fact, it was quite thin in just about every genre. Sure, Nintendo makes some damn good games, but they are few and far between...I need something to play between. Who the hell cares about the controller? Why does it HAVE to be different? Is this some unwritten rule for consoles? If you don't like it, who the hell cares? Just buy one of the many 3rd party controllers...there's an ton choose from out there. Also, don't forget the PSX is largely responsible for bringing the industry where it is today. Gaming is far more mainstream and accepted than it was before it came along. For the most parts, consoles have been able to shake the "childish" image they had before...something the N64 wouldn't have changed very much. Stryder [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:38:25 -0500 From: Thraxen Subject: Re: [NG] Sony - ----- Original Message ----- From: "geoff wuehrmann" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [NG] Sony > Madden 2001 stinks. SSX is good though. > Madden is very good. It may not be as good as NFL2K1, but it's very good none-the-less. Stryder [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:58:16 EDT From: Jedcross2@aol.com Subject: [NG] GCN specs are changed - --part1_7f.156b8ebd.284ee838_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Imagine that, they have upgraded the processor of Gamecube up to 487 MHZ or something. All click here http://gamequbed.com/news.shtm#newsitem991785458,65547, - -Jed - --part1_7f.156b8ebd.284ee838_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Imagine that, they have upgraded the processor of Gamecube up to 487 MHZ or
something. All click here
http://gamequbed.com/news.shtm#newsitem991785458,65547,

-Jed - --part1_7f.156b8ebd.284ee838_boundary-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:56:38 -0600 From: Don Fentie Subject: Re: [NG] GCN specs are changed Not to question your credibility Jed but where/what site did you get this off? I also liked your explaination of what a processor is ;): Quoted from http://gamequbed.com: "Processors are the chips that process everything. The greater the speed, the better it is at running your programs or whatever...Although Microsoft's XBOX's processor is a lot faster than GameCube's, it won't really matter when the speeds are this high(that's my opinion). Just in case you wanted more information on processors, have you ever seen those Pentium 4 commercials? well a Pentium 4 is a processor, and it's one of the fastest ones available today. The fastest Pentium 4 is around 1.7 GHZ equal to 1700 MHZ. - -Jed" Jedcross2@aol.com wrote: > > Imagine that, they have upgraded the processor of Gamecube up to 487 > MHZ or > something. All click here > http://gamequbed.com/news.shtm#newsitem991785458,65547, > > -Jed [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:28:17 +0200 From: "Steve" Subject: [NG] conker 2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0EE0E.D12E5000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i finished it man, the ending,... original... my favorite part: "enter the vertex" (matrix scene from heist) steve - ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0EE0E.D12E5000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i finished it

man, the ending,...

original...

my favorite part: "enter the vertex" = (matrix scene=20 from heist)

steve

- ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C0EE0E.D12E5000-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:55:20 +0200 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: [NG] Does gamecube have a chance at Number 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C0EE87.F1B46160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Vi On=20 To: ngamers@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:11 PM Subject: [NG] Does gamecube have a chance at Number 1 Sony is not in the same position nintendo was in the last generation. = ps2 is not heading the same direction n64 is going.=20 #1. In the psx, n64 days, psx came out first. Psx came out 1 year = before N64. So this time, ps2 again came out 1 year and having that is a big advantage. =20 #2. I don't think the n64 was hard to program for, I have never heard = of that until nowadays. It's that n64 doesn't have enough space. = Cartridge has like 1/20th of CDs, and that's not enough for most developers. = Ps2 now is hard to develop for but you can still make any game for it if=20 you spent extra time on it. For n64, you CAN NOT make FF7 for n64 = because there's not enough space. you can cut out all the FMVs but that's a different story. You might think that not having enough disk space is = the same as hard to develop for but I don't think they are the same. #3. N64 wasn't popular in japan. Probably because there's no rpgs. = Ps2 will still have squaresoft for atleast 1 more year. There's still XenoSaga, FFX coming for ps2. N64 had crappy rpgs except papaer mario which came out this year. =20 #4 ps2 already has lots of great developers Konami, Enix, Square, = Namco, Capcom, etc making exclusive games for ps2 MGS2, Silent Hill2, = DevelMC, Onimusha2. In the n64 days, those companies never made any great = exclusive games for n64. No matter how hard ps2 is to develop for, I don't = think 3rd party will leave ps2 overnight and stop making games for ps2. For = N64 those companies never even started making exclusive games for the N64 system.=20 #5. Ps2 has already sold 7 million units worldwide and many more will = be sold when GT3, MGS2, FFX arives. imho they are already successful in = this generation even if GameCube or Xbox surpases them in number of units = sold. I will be very very surprise if ps2 ends up in eating dust and most = ppl will be playing GameCube in the next 2 years. If I had to to gamble = and place a bid on the winner. I'd say ps2 has 60% chance of winning this generation. =20 -Vi - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- yeah i think it is more of a question: who will bite the dust: = nintendo or microsoft and will there be anyone biting dust the market is expanding and there is enough room for 3 brands now so = my guess is: in popularity: 1 PS2 2 GCN 3 X in money making: 1 nintendo 2 microsoft 3 sony steve - ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C0EE87.F1B46160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Vi On

To: ngamers@lists.xmission.com =

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 = 10:11=20 PM

Subject: [NG] Does gamecube = have a chance=20 at Number 1

Sony is not in the same position nintendo was in the last=20 generation. ps2
is not heading the same direction n64 is = going.=20

#1. In the psx, n64 days, psx came out first. Psx came = out 1=20 year before
N64. So this time, ps2 again came out 1 year and = having=20 that is a big
advantage.

#2. I don't think the n64 = was hard=20 to program for, I have never heard of
that until nowadays. = It's that=20 n64 doesn't have enough space. Cartridge
has like 1/20th of = CDs, and=20 that's not enough for most developers. Ps2
now is hard to = develop for=20 but you can still make any game for it if
you spent extra time on=20 it. For n64, you CAN NOT make FF7 for n64 because
there's not = enough=20 space. you can cut out all the FMVs but that's a
different=20 story. You might think that not having enough disk space is = the
same=20 as hard to develop for but I don't think they are the same.

#3. = N64=20 wasn't popular in japan. Probably because there's no rpgs. = Ps2
will still have squaresoft for atleast 1 more year. = There's=20 still
XenoSaga, FFX coming for ps2. N64 had crappy rpgs = except papaer=20 mario
which came out this year.

#4 ps2 already has = lots of=20 great developers Konami, Enix, Square, Namco,
Capcom, etc making = exclusive=20 games for ps2 MGS2, Silent Hill2, DevelMC,
Onimusha2. In the = n64=20 days, those companies never made any great exclusive
games for = n64. =20 No matter how hard ps2 is to develop for, I don't think
3rd party = will=20 leave ps2 overnight and stop making games for ps2. For = N64
those=20 companies never even started making exclusive games for the = N64
system.=20

#5. Ps2 has already sold 7 million units worldwide and many = more will=20 be
sold when GT3, MGS2, FFX arives. imho they are already = successful=20 in this
generation even if GameCube or Xbox surpases them in number = of=20 units sold.

I will be very very surprise if ps2 ends up in = eating dust=20 and most ppl
will be playing GameCube in the next 2 years. If = I had=20 to to gamble and
place a bid on the winner. I'd say ps2 has = 60%=20 chance of winning this
generation.

-Vi

yeah i think it is more of a = question: who will=20 bite the dust: nintendo or microsoft

and will there be anyone biting = dust

the market is expanding and there is = enough room=20 for 3 brands now so my guess is:

in = popularity:

1 PS2

2 GCN

3 X

in money = making:

1 nintendo

2 microsoft

3 sony

steve

- ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C0EE87.F1B46160-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:01:42 +0200 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: [NG] Sony This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0EE88.D56FA2C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: geoff wuehrmann=20 To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:30 PM Subject: [NG] Sony I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are so=20 uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name.=20 Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is the = xact=20 same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games suck. = I have=20 not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I find games = like GT=20 boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash sucks big = time.=20 Sony is terrible. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----- MERCHANDISE! sony has the image it looks more cool it looks more adult it has more sporting games and RPG's that is why it appeals more to mainstream gamers, the new market, people who weren't interested in gaming before and = don't reeally know how fun it can be will choose ps2 for the above = reasons all hardcore console gamers own a nintendo or sega and maybe a PS as = addition, because they know what quality is you can easely compare it with hollywood movies most of the time no content at all, predictive and therefore = boring,... but popular just because image steve - ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0EE88.D56FA2C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 geoff=20 wuehrmann

To: NGamers@lists.xmission.com =

Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 = 10:30=20 PM

Subject: [NG] Sony

I would like to ask why people like sony for videogames. They are = so=20
uncreative. First of all, they couldn't even think of a new name.=20
Playstation 2, very uncreative. Second of all, The controller is = the xact=20
same. They didn't even improve upon it. Third of all, the games = suck. I=20 have
not seen one game on either system to surpass Mario 64. I = find games=20 like GT
boring, I can't stand resident evil like games and Crash = sucks big=20 time.
Sony is terrible.

MERCHANDISE!

sony has the image

it looks more cool

it looks more adult

it has more sporting games and RPG's

that is why it appeals more to mainstream gamers,

the new market, people who weren't interested in gaming before = and don't=20 reeally know how fun it can be will choose ps2 for the above = reasons

all hardcore console gamers own a nintendo or sega and maybe a PS = as=20 addition, because they know what quality is

you can easely compare it with hollywood movies

most of the time no content at all, predictive and therefore = boring,...

but popular

just because image

steve

- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C0EE88.D56FA2C0-- [ To quit the NGamers mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ] [ NGamers" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ] ------------------------------ End of NGamers-digest V1 #1565 ****************************** [ To quit the NGamers-digest mailing list (big mistake), send the message ] [ "unsubscribe NGamers-digest" (without the quotes) to majordomo@xmission.com ]