From: ".." Subject: (orbital) Paul Oakenfold Fans, must read. Date: 01 Apr 2000 21:07:52 -0800 Q : Do you guys plan to play any live techno sets for ultrasound soon? like for example the paul oakenfold set coming up on april 5th? straight from my radio station DJs via email A: Paul is coming in sometime this week, and we will be airing an exclusive set from paul next Saturday April 8th. More exclusive sets to come... Well Moral of the story is.. I will be having 3 minidisc player taping masters of this set at once. So i will have 3 masters. For GOOD trade or i'll sell them. Otherwise i'll be trading out the CDRs later on... few months. I'm probably gonna skip oakie live cuz of the venue. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: (orbital) This is boring...YAWN! *nt* Date: 04 Apr 2000 01:05:25 +0000 -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "bacchi" Subject: (orbital) ot postings Date: 05 Apr 2000 00:05:06 +0100 hi plz, peeps, mark o.t. postings as such in the subject line. thanx in advanc glauco btw this is not a whinge, it's just cool to know what needs immediate reading and what does not. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: Re: (orbital) !wordZ Date: 04 Apr 2000 19:29:05 -0400 bacchi wrote: > btw this is not a whinge, it's just cool to know what needs immediate > reading and what does not. !wordZ. All of ours deserve your iMMEDIATE attention! Subject lines are enuf fer me, esp now that we have (orbital) in front. All i needz ta know Funny you sent this in during a big lull in the 3 day 'NT' discussion ... Anything to add? NOW'S YOUR CHANCE! ?Hey did anybody see that guy from Black Dog write in and Flame the idm list? Holy shit! Dude's got some baggage. I came in on it about 4 digests later and missed the original poke, but he went off!!!!! Topic! JV is right. BoC's Hi Scores {SKAM} is very nice. Got mine from dave at Ear/Rational. [Thanx whoever it was taht said go there] My pic o da week? Richard Kirk's {aka cabaret voltaire} "Virtual States" [Wish dave would send it too me...] ?Would you say Juno reactor be Goa? I got a used one of "Bible of Dreams" {98?} It has some really nice soundz and big heavy wack beats and all, but left me a little flat. It reminds me of Joi's "one plus equals one" but just not the same soul! ?Is Juno evilor just trying to be PsychicTV {old as me!}? DEATH to m0s! Pissant hackratz! Sooner! Shanman # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) OT RMB Date: 04 Apr 2000 19:41:36 -0400 Hey, anyone here into RMB. I think they're German. Just curious, I thought some up their stuff was cool. -Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thing181@aol.com Subject: (orbital) OT: Question about Marc's Server (sort of) Date: 05 Apr 2000 00:23:26 EDT Hello I am looking for the chap who was kind enough to upload the Wipeout3 disc that came with Arcade Mag. If your out there, would you buzz me privately. Thanx -Cas- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) !wordZ Date: 05 Apr 2000 07:08:31 +0000 "Shannon K. Campbell" wrote: > > ?Would you say Juno reactor be Goa? > I got a used one of "Bible of Dreams" {98?} > It has some really nice soundz and big heavy wack beats and all, > but left me a little flat. > It reminds me of Joi's "one plus equals one" but just not the same soul! Errr...those are two different catagories. JR is tribal trance goa and Joi is Indian bigbeat. Bible of Dreams is an awesome album. JR is my favorite trance/goa group. 1+1=1 is good stuff for a first album, but I'd like to hear some improvements on the second. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "morpheus" Subject: (orbital) HTF BoC Date: 05 Apr 2000 02:51:26 -0700 Hey, Does anyone know if there is a Boards of Canada release that has the songs "Kids For Today" and "Vegetarian Soup" on it. I want these songs badly. I know that there is a remix of Kids For Today on the Warp 10 (I think) remix comp. but I want the original. And if you know where I could get this release, that would be even cooler. And BTW, does anyone know when the new boards of canada cd is coming out? I am anxious to get my hands on some more of Boards's amazing music. ...mmmmmm vegetarian soup. thanx 4 any help peace morpheus "We have no control. Tonight we play to the court. Or the night after. Or to the tavern. Or not." -Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead" http://morpheus1.tripod.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kulsoom a" Subject: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 05 Apr 2000 03:13:05 PDT http://www.time.com/time/daily/0,2960,42405-101000404,00.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 05 Apr 2000 16:26:35 +0000 kulsoom a wrote: > > http://www.time.com/time/daily/0,2960,42405-101000404,00.html Ahhh...good ol' impartial news about E...Not! I don't expect them to be advocating drug use, but can't they at least explain the ups and downs of the drug, instead of this jury-rigged "report" on how it's sweeping the nation through these sex and drug orgies called "raves". They talk about how bad it is, but they don't say why. Something like "you could die from dehydration or if taken with alcohol" will be just fine for me. (And I've never seen a pill that sells for $40.) Next thing you'll know, they'll be doing a report on the dangers of LSD. Ummm...overdosing? Maybe the dehydration and alcohol thing. That's about it. And old article, but a good one on raves: http://www.nationalpost.com/content/features/rave/rave.html -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick McGinn" Subject: Re: (orbital) HTF BoC Date: 05 Apr 2000 15:02:19 -0400 > Does anyone know if there is a Boards of Canada release that has the songs > "Kids For Today" and "Vegetarian Soup" on it. I want these songs badly. I > know that there is a remix of Kids For Today on the Warp 10 (I think) remix > comp. but I want the original. "Kid for Today" is an unreleased track. You can hear a streaming RA at the official BoC webpage at http://www.boardsofcanada.com/sounds.html "Vegetarian Soup" is BoC's remix of the Meat Beat Manifesto track "Prime Audio Soup." http://www.boardsofcanada.com/discog_prime.html Xaos 80 97 116 114 105 99 107 32 77 99 71 105 110 110 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kel Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 05 Apr 2000 20:39:32 -0400 Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > > http://www.time.com/time/daily/0,2960,42405-101000404,00.html > Ahhh...good ol' impartial news about E...Not! Hmph. I read this little tidbit against my better judgement. You really can't read anything in the popular media like this and expect it to be "fair." MDMA is Schedule I, and along with that come certain, um, negative things like this article. Also, there was a lovely, lovely web site @ www.freevibe.com that had the most juvenile page on this subject that I've ever seen. Heh, they even spelt it "Ecstacy" before I corrected them about that and some other things :) If you go there I'm sure you'll still find it there too. Anyway my point is, let's not have another pissing and moaning war about what's "fair" when it comes to things like drug use. You can do drugs or not do drugs, that's totally your choice, but don't use Time to inform yourself :) - KEL :: "welcome to English Voodoo. expect to feel pleasure. because knowledge is sexy. expect to feel pain. because knowledge is torture." :: ;; http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/chimester/index.htm ;; >> now playing :: Baby doc >> Don't stop (mark nrg mix) >> # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JL Jones" Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 05 Apr 2000 16:11:46 -0400 US News and World Report also had an Ecstasy article last week. I get the print editon.. Same anti-usage propaganda BS.... ah well... I confess though that I didn't know organized crime is big-time into E distribution now... Jim J. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 12:26 PM > > kulsoom a wrote: > > > > http://www.time.com/time/daily/0,2960,42405-101000404,00.html > > Ahhh...good ol' impartial news about E...Not! I don't expect them to be > advocating drug use, but can't they at least explain the ups and downs > of the drug, instead of this jury-rigged "report" on how it's sweeping > the nation through these sex and drug orgies called "raves". They talk > about how bad it is, but they don't say why. Something like "you could > die from dehydration or if taken with alcohol" will be just fine for > me. (And I've never seen a pill that sells for $40.) > # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mehul Parekh" Subject: (orbital) ot...cd writers Date: 05 Apr 2000 00:06:53 -0500 do certain cd recorders not record 80 mins of audio? a ad for a hp cdwriter says: HP CD-Writer Plus 8250i Internal Rewritable Drive a.. Capacity up to 650 MB or 74 minutes of audio help. Mehul Parekh I __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Agust 'Nemesis1' Arni Jonsson" Subject: Re: (orbital) ot...cd writers Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:43:38 +0000 At 00:06 5.4.2000 -0500, Mehul Parekh wrote: >do certain cd recorders not record 80 mins of audio? >a ad for a hp cdwriter says: >HP CD-Writer Plus 8250i Internal Rewritable Drive > > a.. Capacity up to 650 MB or 74 minutes of audio >help. some older drives don't do 80min cds without firmware update. so check around if you're going to grab an old cdr new drives should do them without probs... (and if they don't, take it back and tell them they #$%#$ ;) Agust "Nemesis1" - aaj@centrum.is - ICQ: 1290264 - http://nemesis1.cjb.net w00p! :P # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kulsoom a" Subject: (orbital) Mini-Discs and ecstacy Date: 06 Apr 2000 08:21:49 PDT Hello Everyone, I was reading an ad newsgroup at my school and someone posted about getting a Mini-Disc Player/Recorder for $89. I of course read it. and he posted this link: http://www.mobshop.com/cycles?cycle_id=224323 What I would like to know is.. is this recorder good? (I dont know anything about mini-disc stuff) And has anyone used this site before for purchases? Oh yeah he also let us know about a $50 off promotion code: sixpromo Sorry this is off-topic. I posted it here because I figured there has to be some people that know about this (bootlegging and all) and maybe it would interest some of you guys who do want to purchase one. Also about the ecstacy (SP? hehe i dont know either) article, thanks for giving me your opinion. I agree that the media often paints a different image. And since the masses put so much trust in it, it is always considered fact. Anyways, take care Kulsoom ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gargin, Philip (Frankfurt)" Subject: (orbital) Screw you guys, I'm off around the world! Date: 06 Apr 2000 13:52:44 +0100 Time to unsub. I'm dropping out of the rat race for a year or so to bum around planet Earth. Thanks to everybody I've traded with. I don't think I owe anybody anything. I know one person still owes me something but I've just about given up on him. He knows who he is. I wouldn't be so crass as to name drop. I'll just shultz my mouth now. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:30:48 -0400 JL Jones wrote: > US News and World Report also had an Ecstasy > article last week. I get the print editon.. > Same anti-usage propaganda BS.... > ah well... Well Kids, here's the lecture! While this article may resemble other typical anti-drug media mantras, THE FACTS ARE that prolonged longterm use of Ecstasy DOES cause PERMANENT damage to Serotonin {serotinergic} neronal synapses. There is TONS and TONS of scientific data {from primate studies!} that show these burnt-out synaptic endings between nerve cells from over stimulation by MDMA {E!}. This is why the pschiatric community STOPPED using it in marriage and relationship counseling. You may feel all 'lovey' for a while, butthe effect becomes harder to reproduce. These serotinergic connections control many many higher order brain functions involved in feelings and emotions {Such asa Love and compassion and empathy}. The classic E victim is someone who has an emotionally flat personality and sociopathic in his inability to feel empathy for anything outside hisself. If you try it or do it, do it once and then give your brain a break before you do it again. The more you do and the more often you do it the more significant the deficits. Drink lots of water as the more'acute' brain risk from dehydration and loss of electrolytes that allow neurons to 'fire'. Alcohol will only make dehydration worse, and you'll be so hi on E that booze will be a waste of time anyway. My biggest drug advice: !Never trust anything man-made! {except for a few things like Orbital ;)} > I confess though that I didn't know organized crime is big-time > into E distribution now... Yeah! thet're going after Phish-heads now. I saw another article with a little fish logo. Or maybe they're after the Christiana. THEY don't care as long as YOU pay. Fuk the mafia! Fuk drug cartels! Here comes the Russian mob now. They make the Columbians look friendly I'm done. Go play music with something greennn. Shnnnnnnnn # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xolotl Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 06 Apr 2000 12:19:39 -0500 (CDT) > Well Kids, here's the lecture! > > While this article may resemble other typical anti-drug media mantras, > THE FACTS ARE that prolonged longterm use of Ecstasy DOES cause > PERMANENT damage to Serotonin {serotinergic} neronal synapses. If you have a case study to back this up i'd love to read it. They have all sorts of theory's but as i stated in a previous post, they have NO long term studies performed on humans to date. If i'm wrong i'd love for someone to correct me. > > There is TONS and TONS of scientific data {from primate studies!} that > show these burnt-out synaptic endings between nerve cells from over > stimulation by MDMA {E!}. This is why the pschiatric community STOPPED > using it in marriage and relationship counseling. You may feel all > 'lovey' for a while, butthe effect becomes harder to reproduce. One study of MDMA administered to primates most closely modelled human use and used doses of 2.5mg/kg given every 2 weeks for 4 months (2.5 mg/kg x 8) which found no evidence of neurotoxicity. Humans typically use MDMA p.o (per oral) and at levels of about 2.5 mg/kg or less. > > These serotinergic connections control many many higher order brain > functions involved in feelings and emotions {Such asa Love and > compassion and empathy}. The classic E victim is someone who has an > emotionally flat personality and sociopathic in his inability to feel > empathy for anything outside hisself. > > If you try it or do it, do it once and then give your brain a break > before you do it again. > The more you do and the more often you do it the more significant > the deficits. It HAS been proven that after a single dose there is a significant lose of 5-htp (what your brain needs to make serotonin). I've found that taking 5-htp suppliments before and after dosing helps a great deal. You should be able to get 5-htp from health stores (at least you can in canada). If your really worried about neurotoxicity prozac would be the best way to fight it. The neurotoxic damage does not start happening in the animals tested until about six hours after the MDMA is administered. (coinsidentaly the mdma has already did it's thing and is on its way out of your body at this time). Administering Prozac (fluoxetine) up to six hours after the MDMA prevents the neurotoxic damage. > > Drink lots of water as the more'acute' brain risk from dehydration and > loss of electrolytes that allow neurons to 'fire'. > Alcohol will only make dehydration worse, and you'll be so hi on E that > booze will be a waste of time anyway. > not to mention your liver... The kicker is that human brains are far more complex than that of an animal. Without solid studies done on humans no one knows if it's neurotoxic to humans or not. All the information that i posted can be found at hyperreal.org, or http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/index.html > I'm done. Go play music with something greennn. With all that said, that sounds like a grand idea XoLoTl # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: (orbital) Check this link Date: 07 Apr 2000 09:12:52 EDT From today's Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/098/metro/Agents_arrest_2_seize_4_million_in_drugs+.shtml ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: (orbital) Bootleg Date: 07 Apr 2000 09:34:57 EDT Did you fix the errors in "Halcyon" and "I don't know you people" yet? Those seem to be the only two tracks that have errors. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Joona_P=F6yh=F6nen?= Subject: (orbital) Gatecrasher at Helsinki, Finland Date: 07 Apr 2000 17:52:02 +0300 Last weekend we had Gatecrasher here in Helsinki and it was the BIGGEST techno event ever here in Finland with the capacity of 3500. We had one hell of a time there!!! I'm sure all you folks in GB have been to, and i've read that it was voted 2nd time in a row for the best club in GB by Muzik magazine, so i guess it's a good event!!! But we sure did have a nice time! -joona # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 09 Apr 2000 02:44:39 +0000 A friend of mine, who produces mainly for a vinyl-only supersmall hiphop-label told me, that the $0.40 or so that the cost of a CD is in the making are SUBTRACTED from the 5% that the artist gets, THEY have to fucking PAY for the CDs!! And there's another 20% or so subtracted for the agent/manager... Let's see... for a regular price of $15 here in germany, this leaves some whopping $0.28 per CD for the artist, maybe this is even BEFORE taxes!.. hell, the charity money that's on some CDs is MUCH more than that!! So if you sell half a million CDs (which is alot!) the artist makes $140.000... not a fortune considering he just made platinum (i think platinum equals 500k, dunnit?) What a sad sad world where greedy fucks can make such ridiculous profits and get away with it!.. DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: (orbital) Re: Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 09 Apr 2000 05:12:33 -0700 >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 02:44:39 +0000 >From: deekay@mail.dfu.de >Subject: (orbital) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. > >So if you sell half a million CDs (which is alot!) the artist makes >$140.000... not a fortune considering he just made platinum (i think >platinum equals 500k, dunnit?) >What a sad sad world where greedy fucks can make such ridiculous >profits and get away with it!.. Have you ever wondered who or what pays for the following: Studio Costs Producer Engineer Touring (transportation, hotel rooms, venue fees, marketing) Graphic Designer Cover Art/Packaging Videos Photo Sessions Promotional CDs Promo Items Marketing Sales Reps Label Staff (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, offices, etc) Usually the label either pays for some of this, or they front the money to the band with the agreement that the money will be paid back from sales of the album or publishing. If the album stiffs, it is the label which is out the money and has to recoup agreed upon costs from the artist (who doesn't have any money - that's why they needed the label in the first place!) It's a business, not a charity... and if I made $140,000 in one year while living the life of a rock star, I don't think I would be complaining... I would be working on my next album! Kurt :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Digger Subject: (orbital) OT: Movie/Video Posters Date: 10 Apr 2000 06:40:31 -0700 Quick question: What's a good on-line store to purchase album/video/movie posters?? Thanks! P.S.> Mail Privately Thanks, Digger Digger@Jorsm.Com "And Now I'm Aching For You...But there's much to do 'cause there's NOTHING LEFT" # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 10 Apr 2000 19:43:24 +0000 > Have you ever wondered who or what pays for the following: > > Studio Costs > Producer > Engineer > Touring (transportation, hotel rooms, venue fees, marketing) > Graphic Designer > Cover Art/Packaging > Videos > Photo Sessions > Promotional CDs > Promo Items > Marketing > Sales Reps > Label Staff (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, offices, etc) > > Usually the label either pays for some of this, or they front the money to > the band with the agreement that the money will be paid back from sales of > the album or publishing. If the album stiffs, it is the label which is out > the money and has to recoup agreed upon costs from the artist (who doesn't > have any money - that's why they needed the label in the first place!) > Yeah, sure these factors also account, but hell, i don't quite think all of this costs $7.360.000! >:-) Not even CLOSE!.. Obviously the artists are the ones making the least money off this! And that's TOTALLY out of place! Another question would be if you really NEED all of the above mentioned, but that's another topic.. Yet another thing is that promo items and touring also earns money! Like we read in the article that someone posted earlier, it's not enough to ONLY live off, but it also pays and adds into the OPPOSITE direction! > It's a business, not a charity... and if I made $140,000 in one year while > living the life of a rock star, I don't think I would be complaining... I > would be working on my next album! > Yeah, but if you made only a FIFTH of the money, which i would consider the minimum in fairness, considering all these people also involved just live off your creativity, which would be $1.5 million, you'd be even more happy, wouldn't you? 8) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: The 5% nation of Casiotone... Date: 10 Apr 2000 14:05:18 -0400 Kurt Foy Booker wrote: > > Have you ever wondered who or what pays for the following: > > Studio Costs Usually the band. > Producer What's a "producer"? The band "produces" the damn music. > Engineer What's an "engineer"? If you mean "mixer", that's usually a part of the band. > Touring (transportation, hotel rooms, venue fees, marketing) Lemme see...people buy pieces of paper called T-I-C-K-E-T-S. These tickets are E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E. These expensive tickets translate into M-O-N-E-Y. The record label puts this money in their P-O-C-K-E-T-S. Don't gimme this shit about touring being a "cost"! > Graphic Designer > Cover Art/Packaging GFX/Cover designers get paid too much. It's just a fucking cover page! > Videos Only for the really popular bands. > Photo Sessions Woo! These are -really- high priced! :P > Promotional CDs > Promo Items Again, only for the popular bands. The unpopular ones has promote their own album themselves, because the fucking label doesn't think they are "good enough". (If that was the case, why the fuck did they hire them?) > Marketing > Sales Reps Oh, and what a good job they are doing! I can see Backstreet Boys and N'Sync on the TV all the time, but I can't even find Orbital on the fucking radio! Chemical Brothers have videos but I hardly see them (and I have to go to these odd music channels that I don't get on cable). > Label Staff (accountants, lawyers, secretaries, offices, etc) So? That's their job. You want the band to pay 95% for their staff?! > Usually the label either pays for some of this, or they front the money to > the band with the agreement that the money will be paid back from sales of > the album or publishing. If the album stiffs, it is the label which is out > the money and has to recoup agreed upon costs from the artist (who doesn't > have any money - that's why they needed the label in the first place!) I tell you what. Give the bands 35+% and let them pay for the extra stuff. If they are in argeement that the money will be paid back from the sales, then they don't need to fuck them up the ass with a 5% cut. Duh! That's a fucking double-standard which record companies pull all the time. (The 5% nation of Casiotone...now I know what Soul Coughing was thinking...) > It's a business, not a charity... and if I made $140,000 in one year while > living the life of a rock star, I don't think I would be complaining... I > would be working on my next album! The problem is that is a platinum record. They worked damn hard on that one and the odds are they won't do something like that again. IOW, less money. Less money than the measley $140,000/year he got from one of the highest ratings you can get in music. Let's compare: $5+ million a year - Salary for a high-ranking sports star $1-2 million per movie - Salary for a high-ranking actor/actress $2 million a year - Salary for a high class lawyer $200,000+ a year - Salary for a hooker that charges $2000 and and fucks 100 times a year Now, also consider that not all artists are a single person. The average is four. That leaves $35,000 per person per year. Now, what if the album didn't do as well. Maybe it only sold 100,000 copies (which is still a lot). That's a 1/5 of $35,000, which is $7,000/year. Congrats! The artist now has $7,000 to feed his family for an entire year! -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: (orbital) ME! Totally ON topic! all about ME! Date: 10 Apr 2000 16:15:09 EDT Hello fellow Orbitalites, Beginning of time, ????: The big bang. A large dense mass exploded, causing matter to spread outward and form the universe. Worlds formed, organisms developed. Life evolved. Jan 9, 1964: Birth of Philip Hartnoll May 19, 1968: Birth of Paul Hartnoll April 11, 1980: On this day in history, the world as we know it changed forever. It cast it's dismal shadow of gloom and darkness as the light shone forth throughout the land, reaching the deepest, darkest caverns of space! In other words, I was born :-) Yes people. I won't be a teenager anymore. That means I don't get lumped into that age bracket any further. Also, I don't get associated with high schoolers! Most notably, I get the day off from work and I get to see opening day of the Sox at Fenway! :-)))) So join me, as I frolic through flower-laden fields barefoot and bask in the sunshine. Even though I live in Boston and it's going to snow tomorrow :-) I might even let you have a piece of my cake ;-) This also marks just over a year that I've been subscribed to this blessed O-List. It's been a good year people, and I thank you all for contributing your views. We've created such a diverse forum for opinions and beliefs that we should be proud of our accomplishments. :-) We've had our spats in the past, but oh yes, that has only strengthened our realization of our quest for Orbital Truth! Thank you all for welcoming me to the list and let's not stop here! Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mr. Telex" Subject: (orbital) OT : Happy Birthday Rob :-P Date: 11 Apr 2000 07:05:50 GMT Hey all !!! Must give props to the top dawg otherwise known as "Pimp Daddy Rob". A great friend who I still have yet to meet live in person. A funny bro who never stops making me laugh my ass off. ;-) A fellow lover of hot and spicy Latina women (aaawwww shiiiiitt ! Thanks again for all of those links. he he he) A kick-ass MP3 hook up. An extremely wise and talented individual who will tear shit up out in the business world and will hopefully give Bill Gates a run for his money one day (well, we'll see about that one, won't we ? :-P) . A brother in Orbital. What more can I say ??? Maybe the rest of you can fill in the blanks. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ROB !!!!!!!!!!!! ;-P - Josh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) Happy Birthday, Rob! Date: 11 Apr 2000 08:07:04 -0400 Happy Birthday, duuuuude!=A0 The big 2-0, so I guess you can't hang out = with us lowly rebellious teenagers!=A0 Rob, you are a kick-ass friend, = even if it's only on-line, it feels like you're just an hour away!=A0 Oh,= = wait, you are!=A0 Seriously, when I get my car up here next year, I'm = gonna be in Boston every weekend (your ass is toast).=A0 Buddy =3D P.=A0 Ok, good stuff about Rob: he told me everything I needed to know (pretty = much) about college last summer, he likes sushi a lot, he's a funny = bastard, he makes a lot of money at work, he helped out on that cool = webpage (sueter.net), etc. Keep up the good work, man, you're now a quarter of the way done with = the time you got =3D ). Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) Merry Xmas to the Schulzman! 8) Date: 11 Apr 2000 22:10:37 +0000 He's Rob... he's a cool guy.. Nuff said! 8) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trym Asserson" Subject: Re: (orbital) Bootleg Date: 14 Apr 2000 10:30:50 BST >Did you fix the errors in "Halcyon" and "I don't know you people" yet? >Those >seem to be the only two tracks that have errors. Not had time yet, two weeks of finals coming up. I've fixed the tracks, but no time to upload them yet. Will come eventually though. Trym Trym Asserson - 'Apollo' - apollo_project@hotmail.com Biosphere Zine : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceetba/apollo/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Price, Steve A" Subject: (orbital) wtf ? Date: 14 Apr 2000 12:50:04 +0100 Deekay wrote >Yet another thing is that promo items and touring also earns money! >Like we read in the article that someone posted earlier, it's not >enough to ONLY live off, but it also pays and adds into the OPPOSITE >direction! Disagree with the above. I know for a fact the London Records and Orbital dont make a good profit on any tour. They ensure the audience has audio and visual delight at the gigs and that doesnt come cheap! Promos are given away to promote the music - no profit on promos. Deekay - Is this a guessing game or what ? Steve LOOPZ Price Orbital Zine www.loopz.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: (orbital) Beach for sale! Date: 14 Apr 2000 11:05:48 -0400 Hey kids, Anyone need The Beach single; It';s on sale for $9.99 at CDNow [not great but I paid $13.00 for it at the local disc shop] Plus they're having 20% off selected imports too Here ya go: Orbital/Angelo Badalamenti: Beached http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=125809598/pagename=/MN/promo.import/import.html/pagenum=5 Shannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 14 Apr 2000 08:14:54 -0700 I apologize for clogging up the list with off topic stuff... I wish I were talking about a new orbital release instead! But the replies from deekay and Brendan Byrd about label costs as the reason for an artist receiving a small cut... they were just so "wrong" at every step, every word... I got the strong impression that neither of you is very familiar with the actual music industry. Dance/Electronica music itself you both seem to very knowledgeable about. But the mechanics of the industry, I think you are lacking in... these bits here: >> Producer > >What's a "producer"? The band "produces" the damn music. > >> Engineer > >What's an "engineer"? If you mean "mixer", that's usually a part of the >band. That pretty much destroyed any further arguments you had, Brendan, most of which were almost as ignorant... I hope the rest of the list knows what a "producer" and "engineer" are. I do realize that many electronica acts produce themselves, and that is why you asked those questions... but not many electronica acts sell 500,000 titles (and if you guys come back to me with a list of even 10 titles that have, that is still "not many" - right?) From deekay: >Another question would be if you really NEED all of the above >mentioned, but that's another topic.. We were discussing a platinum selling record. Please name some titles that have gone platinum without benefit of a strong label and promotional work behind them (I'll grant them the benefit of one manager and one lawyer) to get those sales. I would want 20+ examples, please. Or... name something on that list that was not used by Orbital in the last year. From deekay: >Yeah, sure these factors also account, but hell, i don't quite think >all of this costs $7.360.000! >:-) Not even CLOSE!.. >Obviously the artists are the ones making the least money off this! >And that's TOTALLY out of place! Do you think all of the other individuals I mention - producer, engineer, designers, marketers, promoters - do not deserve to make any money at all? And do you think they all make more money than the artist? And even if they did, do you think they enjoy their lifestyle working 9-5, behind a desk, over a life as a pop star? Money isn't quite everything my friends. And haven't these behind-the-scene individuals worked hard all their lives perfecting their careers just like the artist? A top notch producer, let's use Flood as an example, probably asks for $1,000,000+ to produce a title now. PlUS a cut of the sales. Any struggling up and coming band would sell would mother to get Flood as a producer, because they know it means instant stardom. But Flood, just like our platinum selling artist, did not make the big bucks with his first few successes... it was only later, after a proven track record that the money started rolling in. >Yet another thing is that promo items and touring also earns money! >Like we read in the article that someone posted earlier, it's not >enough to ONLY live off, but it also pays and adds into the OPPOSITE >direction! But how do you pay for the promo items and touring in the first place? Does the band charge the fees for the cross country tour on their mom's credit card? Do you think mom's credit card has enough limit to pay for the venue rental fees, promoter fees, marketing costs, roadies, stage equipment, soundman, etc? You guys are really young aren't you? Don't you know that most businesses lose money their first year(s), because of startup costs, investment costs, and only after several years of success do profits start to roll in? It's the music "industry". A up and coming band is just like an up and coming website, or any other startup business. Do you think Jeff Bezos was a billionaire the first year Amazon sold books? And did he put all his own money into the venture? And did he do all of the programming, marketing, administration himself? I don't think so.... From Brendan: >The problem is that is a platinum record. They worked damn hard on that >one and the odds are they won't do something like that again. IOW, less >money. Less money than the measley $140,000/year he got from one of the >highest ratings you can get in music. Let's compare: > >$5+ million a year - Salary for a high-ranking sports star >$1-2 million per movie - Salary for a high-ranking actor/actress >$2 million a year - Salary for a high class lawyer >$200,000+ a year - Salary for a hooker that charges $2000 and and fucks We were discussing profits from the FIRST platinum selling title for an artist. The blessed individuals who make the "high ranking" salaries did not do so with their first appearance on a tv sitcom, or even their first smash hit movie. Even the hooker did noy get $2000 the first time her cherry was popped. It was only after replicating their success over and over again that they are able to keep raising their rates. Julia Roberts probably made only about $140,000 for Pretty Woman. It was only after several big hit movies that she could command higher salaries. It was only after Thriller that Michael Jackson was able to get the highest royalty rate in the industry (I think it was $2.00 per CD sold). So again your argument is worthless, Brendan. You both basically seem to think that it can all be done by the band itself, that they can control there own destiny, organize everything themselves, manage all the details of all the affairs. I admit they surely will have much say in every matter pertaining to their career... but you simply don't get to the top of the charts and stay there without a small army of people helping you along the way... and guess what? Those people have to feed their families too! Whew.... you guys tuckered me out! Kurt :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) wtf ? Date: 14 Apr 2000 15:44:49 +0000 "Price, Steve A" wrote: > > Disagree with the above. I know for a fact the London Records and Orbital > dont make a good profit on any tour. They ensure the audience has audio and > visual delight at the gigs and that doesnt come cheap! It's a rare behavior to have low price tickets at high quality audio/visuals. > Promos are given away to promote the music - no profit on promos. BS. It's the same profit as the MP3s: people buying the music. No, this isn't a statistic that you can easily track, but they definately make money off of this. Otherwise, why the hell would they be doing it? Also, tours tend to make lots of money from T-shirts, but it all depends on the costs of the tour on whether they make money or not. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 14 Apr 2000 16:13:17 +0000 Kurt Foy Booker wrote: > > That pretty much destroyed any further arguments you had, Brendan, most of > which were almost as ignorant... I hope the rest of the list knows what a > "producer" and "engineer" are. I do realize that many electronica acts > produce themselves, and that is why you asked those questions... but not > many electronica acts sell 500,000 titles (and if you guys come back to me > with a list of even 10 titles that have, that is still "not many" - right?) Oh, how fucking convenient! I know what the terms mean, but I was asking the general public what they where because they usually aren't needed to make the music. And I fucking appreciate the fact that you take a perfectly valid argument and respond to the weakest link only! > We were discussing a platinum selling record. Please name some titles that > have gone platinum without benefit of a strong label and promotional work > behind them (I'll grant them the benefit of one manager and one lawyer) to > get those sales. I would want 20+ examples, please. Why do you need 20+ examples? Isn't one enough? Wouldn't one show that the way the music industry work is a fucking crock? > Do you think all of the other individuals I mention - producer, engineer, > designers, marketers, promoters - do not deserve to make any money at all? > And do you think they all make more money than the artist? And even if > they did, do you think they enjoy their lifestyle working 9-5, behind a > desk, over a life as a pop star? Money isn't quite everything my friends. This is where my comparision to other entertainment catagories would have worked here, but you've cut that part out, didn't you? > And haven't these behind-the-scene individuals worked hard all their lives > perfecting their careers just like the artist? A top notch producer, let's > use Flood as an example, probably asks for $1,000,000+ to produce a title > now. PlUS a cut of the sales. Any struggling up and coming band would > sell would mother to get Flood as a producer, because they know it means > instant stardom. But Flood, just like our platinum selling artist, did not > make the big bucks with his first few successes... it was only later, after > a proven track record that the money started rolling in. Ha! These are numbers that you pull outta of your ass! I know for a fact that Flood doesn't ask for a cool million because he's got clients and no musician has that kind of money. > But how do you pay for the promo items and touring in the first place? > Does the band charge the fees for the cross country tour on their mom's > credit card? Do you think mom's credit card has enough limit to pay for > the venue rental fees, promoter fees, marketing costs, roadies, stage > equipment, soundman, etc? Yeah, the label. So what? Is that help worth 95%? No. > You guys are really young aren't you? Don't you know that most businesses > lose money their first year(s), because of startup costs, investment costs, > and only after several years of success do profits start to roll in? > > It's the music "industry". A up and coming band is just like an up and > coming website, or any other startup business. Do you think Jeff Bezos was > a billionaire the first year Amazon sold books? And did he put all his own > money into the venture? And did he do all of the programming, marketing, > administration himself? I don't think so.... I think you're missing the point. Even after the musicians have established a career for themselves, they STILL don't get shit for money. The fact that the term "selling out" exists implies that even the big guys with long-standing career still don't make enough money. Steve, do you know how much of a cut Orbital, a group now working on their sixth album, get from their label? > We were discussing profits from the FIRST platinum selling title for an > artist. The blessed individuals who make the "high ranking" salaries did > not do so with their first appearance on a tv sitcom, or even their first > smash hit movie. Even the hooker did noy get $2000 the first time her > cherry was popped. It was only after replicating their success over and > over again that they are able to keep raising their rates. Julia Roberts > probably made only about $140,000 for Pretty Woman. It was only after > several big hit movies that she could command higher salaries. It was only > after Thriller that Michael Jackson was able to get the highest royalty > rate in the industry (I think it was $2.00 per CD sold). So again your > argument is worthless, Brendan. Hmmm...let's take a slip that said and use it against you: the highest royalty rate in the industry is $2 per CD. That would be $15 / $2. Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, who has sold well over a million albums, gets less than 15% off his albums. Computer companies, especially good ones with proven track records (like Blizzard or id Software), get at least 30-40% from their games. So, from a two-million CD sale of records (double-platinum, I think) from the King of Pop only gets $266 thousand dollars. He probably spent about two years on such an album, and he doesn't even get a half-million dollars from a CD that sold TWO MILLION COPIES?! BTW, $140,000 is extremely rich in musician standards. > You both basically seem to think that it can all be done by the band > itself, that they can control there own destiny, organize everything > themselves, manage all the details of all the affairs. I admit they surely > will have much say in every matter pertaining to their career... but you > simply don't get to the top of the charts and stay there without a small > army of people helping you along the way... and guess what? Those people > have to feed their families too! You don't seem to understand that artists, no matter how small they are, don't deserve 5%. THEY need to feed their families, too! You cut out that part where I showed just how little they make. Also notice how the music industry is the only one that gets bitched at for the pissass change musicians make. Nobody bitchs about actors/actresses getting paid too little. Nobody bitchs about sports players getting paid too little. Only the musicians. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: (orbital) Hello All! Date: 14 Apr 2000 11:19:25 MDT Hello, as a new member of this mailing list, I would like to introduce myself. I am a huge orbital fan, and also have my own electronic music project called ShoestringCowboy. My site if anyone wants to check it out is www.mp3.com/ShoestringCowboy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 14 Apr 2000 22:17:43 +0000 > I apologize for clogging up the list with off topic stuff... I wish I were > talking about a new orbital release instead! But the replies from deekay > and Brendan Byrd about label costs as the reason for an artist receiving a > small cut... they were just so "wrong" at every step, every word... At EVERY word?? Jeez, thanks! >:-( That makes ME the asshole in this, right? The majors are the good guys, yeah! > I got > the strong impression that neither of you is very familiar with the actual > music industry. Like said, I have a friend who runs a small indy hiphop label, and i talked to him often enough about the industry.. he also gave me the figures, remember?.. Plus i talk to some other musicians, some of whom have had some insight in the music industry... that's enough knowledge to form an opinion! Strangely enough (to get back to the topic!) all of them see mp3 as the chance to get rid of the old rotten structures and the greedy "industry"... > >From deekay: > >Another question would be if you really NEED all of the above > >mentioned, but that's another topic.. > > We were discussing a platinum selling record. Please name some titles that > have gone platinum without benefit of a strong label and promotional work > behind them (I'll grant them the benefit of one manager and one lawyer) to > get those sales. I would want 20+ examples, please. > > Or... name something on that list that was not used by Orbital in the last > year. > > > >From deekay: > >Yeah, sure these factors also account, but hell, i don't quite think > >all of this costs $7.360.000! >:-) Not even CLOSE!.. > >Obviously the artists are the ones making the least money off this! > >And that's TOTALLY out of place! > > Do you think all of the other individuals I mention - producer, engineer, > designers, marketers, promoters - do not deserve to make any money at all? I forgot the word, but the reasoning you're using is such standard practice in unfair discussion that there's actually a word for it! 8) "I think people have to pay too much in taxes!" - "So you're saying the government should ABOLISH taxes?" Read again what i said: "Obviously the artists are the ones making the least money off this! And that's TOTALLY out of place!" Note: I did *not* say they should be getting ALL the money (which would mean what you were saying, that all the rest gets NONE at all!) I said that THEY are the ones that all the others live off, and so that they should definately be the ones that get the largest part of the money!! If i found a company, find investors, a loan at the bank, take all the risks, and i hire people that work for me, do i not deserve to make the most money of them all since *I* was the one that enabled them to earn their salary in the first place??? You know why it's not like that? Because the record companies don't work for the musicians but the musicians work for the record company!! And THAT sucks! I'm not buying an album because it says Sony Music on there but because it's from my favourite band!! I don't buy a CD for its cover either, and there are gazillions of coverdesigners out there but only ONE Orbital! 8) > And do you think they all make more money than the artist? Yes. The record company bosses, managers etc. SURE do! The coverdesigners etc. ofcourse just get their usual salaries! > And even if > they did, do you think they enjoy their lifestyle working 9-5, behind a > desk, over a life as a pop star? Money isn't quite everything my friends. > Well, this reasoning seems kinda strange to me.. "You signed the contract. Well, off you go, no more 9-5 work for you, have fun living the life of a popstar! Here's some cocaine for your entertainment!" ..i guess LOTS of musicians would rather choose NOT to be whores of the record company if they had the chance! >:-) > And haven't these behind-the-scene individuals worked hard all their lives > perfecting their careers just like the artist? A top notch producer, let's > use Flood as an example, probably asks for $1,000,000+ to produce a title > now. PlUS a cut of the sales. Any struggling up and coming band would > sell would mother to get Flood as a producer, because they know it means > instant stardom. And THIS fact is only due to what factors? 8) Yes, you got it right, MARKETING, shitty POP music and the majors controlling everything and fulfilling "market needs"!.. You can't justify the majors by saying "the market" (=the majors) works like that!. > But Flood, just like our platinum selling artist, did not > make the big bucks with his first few successes... it was only later, after > a proven track record that the money started rolling in. > Yeah, a track record WITHIN the industry! And what's that worth when the whole industry sucks? 8) Orbital don't have a "track record" in popular terms.. still they're a great band and pretty successful without marketing, so you don't NEED some Flood pimp to be successful (WITHIN the music industry! >:-) > > > >Yet another thing is that promo items and touring also earns money! > >Like we read in the article that someone posted earlier, it's not > >enough to ONLY live off, but it also pays and adds into the OPPOSITE > >direction! > > But how do you pay for the promo items and touring in the first place? > Does the band charge the fees for the cross country tour on their mom's > credit card? Do you think mom's credit card has enough limit to pay for > the venue rental fees, promoter fees, marketing costs, roadies, stage > equipment, soundman, etc? > When did i ever say the bands should NOT be signing with someone??? This is your "inverted binary (=black/white) rhethorical question"-reasoning again! Again: I said the BANDS should be the kings cause THEY deserve it, not all the fucking other people that are just living off them!! > You guys are really young aren't you? Well thanks, can't you directly say: "You naive morons, grow up" if that's what you mean? I gotta say if you're the old one (I'm 24) in this then your reasoning is pretty weak and unfair for someone "old and experienced"! > Don't you know that most businesses > lose money their first year(s), because of startup costs, investment costs, > and only after several years of success do profits start to roll in? > Yeah, but does the bank who gave me the money a) tell me how to run my business and b) make 95% of all the earnings?? I don't fucking think so, you pay some interest or have an investor who gave you the money beforehand, and now gets a part of the earnings, but you're NEVER even close to making only 5% off all the margins if it was YOU who founded the company!! > It's the music "industry". A up and coming band is just like an up and > coming website, or any other startup business. Do you think Jeff Bezos was > a billionaire the first year Amazon sold books? And did he put all his own > money into the venture? And did he do all of the programming, marketing, > administration himself? I don't think so.... > ...and do you think he EVER made less money than all of the people working for him? 8) I don't think so, nowadays for sure and prolly even in startup times!.. And i guess Jeff Bezos has *much* say in the road amazon should be taking! 8) The musician's generally don't! >:-( And: That aside "Music Industry" is like "Microsoft Works" an Oxymoron! >:-) I know it's a valid term, but i'd just like all of you sit back for a minute and picture something as creative, uplifting and beautiful as music with the steely cold dirty approach of an industry! 8) > You both basically seem to think that it can all be done by the band > itself, that they can control there own destiny, organize everything > themselves, manage all the details of all the affairs. Again: Please quote me where i said that!.. WHEN did i say they shouldn't get someone to market them or pay money in advance?? > I admit they surely > will have much say in every matter pertaining to their career... but you > simply don't get to the top of the charts and stay there without a small > army of people helping you along the way... *HELPING* yes, ROBBING no!! Question: do we really NEED Charts??? And should it be the aim of a musician to get there??? I see that today with the current structures established there's the need for marketing, but this thinking that MUSIC needs MARKETING just seems hella wrong! By the way: Who goes to the top and stays there?? 8) Nobody!.. There's no more band like the Beatles, Queen or Genesis that would CONSTANTLY be in the charts over a period of several years!.. Usually people go to the top, stay there for mostly ONE song (two or maximum three!) and then they're gone forever.. Why is that? Because record companies FULLFILL and GENERATE market needs, they either stuff bands in some niche in which they'd see a marketing need to be satisfied or completely generate artificial projects to satisfy the need they often generate themselves together with MTV and the radio whores! And since it's an *industry* it's only the margin that counts, and you can make the best margin if you personally make sure that people will buy it ( a) by "marketing", that means treating the world as cattle by means of psycho-BS and spindoctoring and b) by tailoring some artificial band to satisfy the 'popular demand' to the maximum!).. What's more is that it's more profitable to sign a new artist once with a 5% cut (and then have him (forced by the contract!) produce three albums after his one-hit-wonder that will NEVER be marketed but will be a good musical resource for the label's artificial projects), than to continue marketing the same people, cause they'd want a new contract with a higher cut if they're REALLY popular over a certain period plus the artists would become more powerful than the record companies would like them to be, since they are popular now and could threaten to go to a different label! DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 14 Apr 2000 20:48:46 +0000 deekay@mail.dfu.de wrote: > > I forgot the word, but the reasoning you're using is such standard > practice in unfair discussion that there's actually a word for it! 8) > "I think people have to pay too much in taxes!" - "So you're saying > the government should ABOLISH taxes?" > > When did i ever say the bands should NOT be signing with someone??? > This is your "inverted binary (=black/white) rhethorical > question"-reasoning again! Again: I said the BANDS should be the > kings cause THEY deserve it, not all the fucking other people that > are just living off them!! It's called "Lunatic Fringe" and it's discussed in the Conversational Terrorism page here: http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) Re: Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 00:29:06 +0000 I have a few questions about these things I'd like to know: The music industry is a business but that doesn't mean that the millions that are spent on just one video (for example) couldn't be better spent. I don't think indulging in as many mp3's as you can of your favourite artists does much to help this situation mind you ! Wouldn't it be better to stand on the street corner in the rain selling pirated Westlife cd's ? Or, how about posting the managing director of Sony a soggy dog shit wrapped in tinsel ! How many hours and how many tinsel wrapped shits do you think it would take before either I get arrested - or, he/she gets the message ? Most of us know greed exploits and companys who mostly look after shareholders is giving in to that. I see them putting on a brave advertising face as they pretend they care about what they are doing ! But why don't businesses care less about money and more about what they are doing ? - They'd end up richer and need less money anyway because people wouldn't want it so much ! Even the shareholders would be happy ! It's the personal responsibility of us not to buy products if that product is a 'bad thing' or whatever - but also it's in the interests of those companys to keep that information from us - we all must be in the dark about so many things - how is it even possible for us to make good decisions about what we do..forget about the 14 year old who has just committed the ultimate sin by liking what's fed to them on the radio ! So why is there a division between personal responsibility on the individual level and at the level of the corporation ? And on what is that decision based ? I think more people are choosing to believe that numbers should be slaves to us and not the other way around, I believe it's happening slowly for many reasons, partly due to the Internet ( take a look sometime: http://www.cluetrain.com/ ). Anyway, any thoughts would be welcome... Cheers, -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might begin to reach you, why we give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 04:36:44 +0000 > I think more people are choosing to believe that numbers should be slaves > to us and not the other way around, I believe it's happening slowly for > many reasons, partly due to the Internet ( take a look sometime: > http://www.cluetrain.com/ ). > > Anyway, any thoughts would be welcome... > > Cheers, > > -- > -- Mark S-D Mark, first thanks for this very interesting post... I totally share your point of view.. Let me tell you about the situation here in germany, atleast in my direct vicinity: during the eighties and till the mid-nineties if someone was boasting about how much money he makes and how succesful he is, he would be generally frowned upon and considered an asshole.. Ofcourse there were also the yuppies but the *general* idea was that egoism and greed were deifnately NOTadmirable character-traits.. In the mid-nineties this slowly changed.. i always like to pinpoint the going-down of communism and the soviet union as the reason for this. The theory is that there's always a Yin to the Yang, a male to the female, good/evil and so on, so there's a balance. This balance in the world is no more there and so american thinking and capitalism were free to flourish, atleast here in germany! The big stock-boom started with the emission of the Telekom, germany's TelCo.. Cellulars became popular like fuck and suddenly it was cool to gamble with stocks and generally be very important with a cellphone.. Brand clothing and other superficial shit suddenly were THE hype!.. So nowadays you can tell others how much money you just made in stocks and what status symbols you just purchased and NOBODY will frown at you anymore! To the contrary, most people will RESPECT you for that! Accordingly, the economy became the new religion.. Gerhard Schroeder was elected chancellor cause he's very close to the bosses and the economy itself, it seems for the past 3 years the country's only worry is about the economy. Don't get any false ideas: Germany's economy hasn't been "bad" for several decades! 8) I consider myself "radical ethical"... That means, if someone is or acts unethical it just pisses me off and i get pretty mad.. I'm not one of those peace-&-love-let's-talk-about-it people! Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't say i'm perfect but i pay great attention to show integrity in what i do and act largely following the categorical imperative. The point that REALLY fuckin pisses me off is when people smile at me amused when i say that something is unethical and that something should be boycotted or fought! The general idea is that there's no use trying to change the world, and since the world is led by money there's no use fighting it.. I think greed, capitalism and egoism should be fought.. seeing things like the demonstrations in Seattle and Washington lately (also movements like PLUR! 8) gives me hope, and i just hope the current NASDAQ-disaster is the really big one i've hoped for for a year now! The hippies were right, you know! They only took too many drugs and lived in their own dream world instead of reality, that was their mistake! There's the concept of the responsibility-circles.. It says that you feel most responsibility for yourself, the second-most for your family, the third-most for your friends, then stuff like community, city, nation, world.. With every wider circle you feel less responsibility, though you still feel like part of it somehow. If you look at the world today, these circles grow smaller and smaller, people feel less and less responsibility for anything but themselves! I dunno about you guys and girls, but i sure as hell don't want to live in a world like that! I talked to a russian friend of mine (who's been through QUITE some shit in his life!) about ethics, and talking to him i realized that ethics is something that you can just afford when you are not struggling for existance, however i think none of us are, so we should fucking USE the opportunity and try to make the world a better place! There's this german hiphop group, Die Fantastischen Vier, and they said once: "If everybody said: "Hey! I'm gonna make the world a better place" we would have already done it!" and there's quite some truth in that! I want to see a MOVEMENT!... Not just some tripping Techno-Thing that's all about party but a real movement with ideals, demonstrations and ethics, with influence and a good view of reality, agressive if necessary... The internet has spawned quite a few things like this, like instant petitions to protest against certain things, but it's all too unorganized! It's just that with all the current Business and eCommerce-Hype i see the free internet going down pretty soon if we don't act! Like NOT buying online if it's not absolutely necessary! If they don't sell over the net, they'll soon lose interest! The Opensource Thing is also a move into the right direction, kinda like "Hippies with a clue"! 8) Egoism, "Fakism", superficiality, hipocrisy... these are not my virtues for sure! And since most of the things i encounter each day have atleast ONE of the aforementioned characteristics, you can guess that i'm pretty pissed off! For example there's this ad on TV that generously tells me what "my generation" is: "We found businesses and we become entrepreneurs. I see everybody running around with cellphones.." - I DON'T FUCKING THINK SO!! The government lies to you, the companies lie to you and spindoctor you with marketing! If the information age is all about superficiality, egoism and hipocrisy i'd rather go back, cause i fucking don't think this is so very great! Isn't it a shit world we live in? ..and the basic problem of almost everything is that there are WAY too many people on the globe! Pissed and pretty depressed, DeeKay P.S.: Thanks for reading this far! 8) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mr. Telex" Subject: (orbital) OT : Promos & The Music Biz Date: 16 Apr 2000 02:52:46 GMT >>BS ..... Hey Brendan , sorry you tell you that you're wrong again (don't you just hate that ?) , but the gentleman (sorry I forgot your name, sir) was right. Artists do not get paid for promo copies of anything. This includes stuff given to DJ's, radio stations, and albums that are sold through record clubs (ex: Columbia House, BMG Direct). Just read any of the extensive books on the industry that are out there. Here are some good titles which are sitting in my bookcase : 1) "Confessions Of A Record Producer" by Moses Avalon 2) "The Music Business (Explained In Plain English)" by David Naggar, Esq. & Jeffrey D. Brandstetter, Esq. 3) "How To Make And Sell Your Own Recording" by Diane Sward Rappaport 4) "The Musician's Guide To Selling Your Own CD's And Cassettes" by Jana Stanfield 5) "Songwriter's Market (1994 Edition)" by Cindy Laufenberg 6) "This Business Of Music (6th Edition)" by Shemel Krasilovsky 7) "The Music Business Handbook And Career Guide" by David Baskerville, Ph.D. - Josh :-) NP : Tosca - Honey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) OT : Promos & The Music Biz Date: 16 Apr 2000 03:14:01 +0000 "Mr. Telex" wrote: > > >>BS ..... > > Hey Brendan , sorry you tell you that you're wrong again (don't you just > hate that ?) , but the gentleman (sorry I forgot your name, sir) was right. > > Artists do not get paid for promo copies of anything. This includes stuff > given to DJ's, radio stations, and albums that are sold through record clubs > (ex: Columbia House, BMG Direct). Well, then. We might as well fire every marketing person out there and stop making commericials because they aren't make us any money. Special hint: Use your brain next time... -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mr. Telex" Subject: (orbital) OT : Why Bother ??? It's A No-Win Situation With You !!!! Date: 16 Apr 2000 03:40:56 GMT Brendan farted out of his ass >>> "Special hint: Use your brain next time..." Well, knowing a HELL of A LOT more on this subject than you do (just from doing all of the reading and being a musician myself), I would say that I have exercised my grey matter very well in this area. You need to see a doctor to take care of the severe case of SDS that you seem to suffering from. ;-) I'll let you figure that one out, Mr. "I'm Hot Shit Who Loves To Fuck With Everybody For No Apparent Reason Other Than To Try And Look Cool But I Have Obviously Failed". - Josh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) OT : Why Bother ??? It's A No-Win Situation With You !!!! Date: 16 Apr 2000 03:55:24 +0000 "Mr. Telex" wrote: > > Brendan farted out of his ass >>> > > "Special hint: Use your brain next time..." > > Well, knowing a HELL of A LOT more on this subject than you do (just from > doing all of the reading and being a musician myself), I would say that I > have exercised my grey matter very well in this area. > > You need to see a doctor to take care of the severe case of SDS that you > seem to suffering from. ;-) Condescending tones received get replied with condescending tones. I'll stop flaming if you do. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 02:07:39 -0700 Brendan and deekay ganged up on me: >> I forgot the word, but the reasoning you're using is such standard >> practice in unfair discussion that there's actually a word for it! 8) >> "I think people have to pay too much in taxes!" - "So you're saying >> the government should ABOLISH taxes?" >> >> When did i ever say the bands should NOT be signing with someone??? >> This is your "inverted binary (=black/white) rhethorical >> question"-reasoning again! Again: I said the BANDS should be the >> kings cause THEY deserve it, not all the fucking other people that >> are just living off them!! > >It's called "Lunatic Fringe" and it's discussed in the Conversational >Terrorism >page here: Hmmm... I'm actually a major player in the realm of online music retailing, so I'm really part of the mainstream "greedy industry" you complain about. Does that explain things? (ha-ha) You guys will probably be happy when my career and that of many other music industry professionals is destroyed by mp3's I guess we'll all have to become musicians then :-) I do admit it was a mistake to answer both your posts together in my previous post. It was mostly Brendan I was responding to, his replies were so idiotic. Your post, deekay, was better argued, especially the last one, and I apologize if I insulted you. I think our major disagreement here (and the beginning of our argument, remember) is how well platinum selling artists are compensated... I still insist that any artist who has sold 500,000+ copies is doing just fine, and probably not complaining too much, even if he is only getting 5-10% of the sales. Any business which sees 5-10% gross profit feels it is doing well. >Read again what i said: "Obviously the artists are the ones making >the least money off this! And that's TOTALLY out of place!" You see, even if I am truly am wrong, I have to question this... If you look at the list I compiled of other respources involved, the money seems to get split up quite a few ways, doesn't it? 5% here, 2% there, 3% here, etc.... It's as though they are all investors or shareholders in the band, in a sense. I'm guessing the artists rank 2nd or 3rd in size of shares. My guess is it's either the graphic designers or the grunt work marketers who "make the least money". I was watching MTV awhile back, and they profiled the lifestyle of the bass player for Limp Bizkit. Just the bass player, only 1/4 (1/5th?) of a popular band, so by Brendan's reasoning he should only have made about $7,000 last year. So damn, he must have gotten a fantastic deal on the lovely house and fancy cars they showed! I make a bit more than $7,000 anually, and I could never afford all the stuff he had! Where did the money come from? Maybe your figures don't take everything into account, like publishing royalties, for example. >Yeah, but does the bank who gave me the money a) tell me how to >run my business and b) make 95% of all the earnings?? >I don't fucking think so, you pay some interest or have an investor >who gave you the money beforehand, and now gets a part of the >earnings, but you're NEVER even close to making only 5% off all the >margins if it was YOU who founded the company!! Consider, deekay, that the heads of the Major labels make tons of money because they have invested not in one, or several, but thousands of artists, and by taking a *small* cut on ALL those album sales (not 95%, are you kidding?), they make lots and lots of money. Is that wrong? Just like the label/bank comparison. Yes, obviously when a bank hands out a business loan, it does not recoup ALL the profits and assets if the business is successful. But by handing out thousands of different loans, and taking their interest on the loans, they end up being fabulously wealthy. Is that wrong? Also realize that if the bank does not agree with your business plan, they simply won't loan you money in the first place. If the label does not think the band will make money, they won't give them a deal. So in a small way, they do have a say in how one conducts his business, IF he wants to get that loan/signing. >And i guess Jeff Bezos has *much* say in the road amazon should be >taking! 8) The musician's generally don't! >:-( If they care about complete creative control, and the label is not willing to give it to them, then why do they play the game? No one holds a gun to their heads or forces them to sign to a major label. If they don't want to be part of the rotten greedy industry, they can certainly fulfill their creative urges in many other ways. But... like I said earlier... it is doubtless they will ever have a platinum album... 1. They will have to settle for the money from gigs at local bars... but of course that money gets shared between the bar owner, the soundman, the cost of flyers at kinkos, etc.... 2. Or they can post mp3's to the internet, hoping the industry figures out how to sell the files while preventing folk from simply copying or burning them illegaly, so the artist gets paid for more than 1/100 of the files being listened to. >all of them see mp3 as the chance to get rid of the old >rotten structures and the greedy "industry"... Does this list truly believe the collapse of the music industry as it now stands would be a good thing? How many Orbital mp3 files are you all planning on purchasing in the next year? Kurt :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 02:10:15 -0700 >Also notice how the music industry is the only one that gets bitched at >for the >pissass change musicians make. Nobody bitchs about actors/actresses getting >paid too little. Nobody bitchs about sports players getting paid too little. >Only the musicians. Maybe it is because musicians are whiny little punks? (Just kidding!) Forgive me in advance Brendan for not rebutting every word of your response or only focusing on your "strongest" arguments (you didn't indicate which ones those were). But this is kind of interesting, and I would like to keep the debate going a little more. As soon as I see a "take it private" post, I promise I'll shut up. First off... I think there are plenty of actors/actresses who bitch about the entertainment industry. Hollywood is not a terribly friendly place. Lots of part time waiters in that city. Francis Ford Coppola only got paid $50,000 to direct the first Godfather film; Paramount pocketed the millions... yadda yadda yadda... And when a football player catches a couple touchdown passes in important games, I'm sure he will start bitching about making not enough money too... but I'm not a huge sports fan, and I don't know any pro football players, so I can't really speak in that arena. I do know lots of music industry types, however. Second... I don't perceive that musicians as a group complain any more about money than other professions... Try being a poet. Or a clerk at Tower Records. >Hmmm...let's take a slip that said and use it against you: the highest royalty >rate in the industry is $2 per CD. That would be $15 / $2. Michael Jackson, >the King of Pop, who has sold well over a million albums, gets less than >15% off >his albums. Yeah... that Michael Jackson... he didn't make much money off his albums, did he? Poor guy must be in debt up to his ears with all that stuff he bought! You do realize that the royalties discussed by you or myself (or in the original post that kicked this all off) are not the only amounts of money made by a musician. I think the $2.00 per CD are the "mechanicals" (That might be the wrong term... not my line of country exactly). But as I understand it, most money is made from Publishing. ASCAP/BMI stuff. Everytime your song is played by a radio station, or a jukebox, or used in an advertisement, or in a department store, the songwriter gets paid. A bass player from Santana once joked that everytime he heard Black Magic Woman played on the radio, he went and bought a new pair of shoes, because he knew that's how much it was worth... I don't think he was complaining... So this bit here: >Now, also consider that not all artists are a single person. The >average is four. That leaves $35,000 per person per year. Now, what if >the album didn't do as well. Maybe it only sold 100,000 copies (which >is still a lot). That's a 1/5 of $35,000, which is $7,000/year. Here's that part I cut out before, Brendan :-) But your numbers may not be too accurate. Lots of other ways to milk the cow when you have a hit record on your hands. You seem to think that touring is a sure money maker (although I can hear many touring bands go "pfffttthpppp!!!") Or maybe they should put out some more promo CDs! You know, I'm going back through your posts, and I just can't believe some of the things you wrote: (concerning marketers) >Oh, and what a good job they are doing! I can see >Backstreet Boys and N'Sync on the TV all the time, but I can't even find >Orbital on the fucking radio! Chemical Brothers have videos but I >hardly see them (and I have to go to these odd music channels that I >don't get on cable). waitaminute... how in the hell did backstreet boys and n'sync become so popular?? Their brilliant music???! It was the label staff and marketers, you dumbass!! But by your arguments, those puppets should get the lion's share of the money? Or wouldn't it be more fair that the following types share in the sales of the backstreet boy music: 1. The guy who hired the band and fronted all the money to train them and then hire others to put the group package together. 2. The people who wrote and produced the music. 3. The behind-the-scenes staff who arranged to have the media shove them down our throats, by way of placing numerous advertisements in radio stations, newspapers, magazines, television, run contests, design, manufacture and distribute promotional crap (posters, CDs, keychains, toys), in the US and internationally... And your implication that Orbital and the Chemical Brothers don't get too much exposure... do you live in a cave? But with all that said... I do think that your hearts are in the right place, Brendan and deekay. If I understand your arguments correctly, you want the lesser-known musicians, the non-backstreet boys who put much more of their soul and hard work into their music to get more money. Am I right? I wish that could happen too. I wish we could all be wealthy, without concern over rent or bills, able to afford any luxuries we desire - all while doing creative work we love! But we still are stuck in a system which considers resources to be "limited". Not quite enough to go around, and so we scramble and fight over what does exist. It would be great if every album could go platinum, and every hard working artist could make millions... but I'm afraid we would then have too many hard working artists, and no plumbers, doctors, teachers or computer programmers! Kurt :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) MP3 vs Labels Date: 16 Apr 2000 16:30:54 +0000 Kurt Foy Booker wrote: > > Hmmm... I'm actually a major player in the realm of online music retailing, > so I'm really part of the mainstream "greedy industry" you complain about. > Does that explain things? (ha-ha) You guys will probably be happy when my > career and that of many other music industry professionals is destroyed by > mp3's I guess we'll all have to become musicians then :-) Maybe. Maybe not. Right now, it's actually helping business just like promos are doing. Most people don't like homemade burned CDs because it lacks the cover art and shit. Hell, I bought a radio promo of Surrender for $5. When I realized it was the full album, I bought the actual album. Why? Beats the fuck outta me! Maybe I wanted the cover art and song information. Maybe I really liked giving my share of money to the artists (even if they are rich). I really didn't (and don't) know. However, the future of MP3 might mean the downfall of the "middle man". The Internet is doing that in a lot of places. You don't need lots of money to start a business because of it. Paying for long distance phone conversations is a thing of the past. But perhaps your career is an endangered one that should find a way to flow with the times, instead of putting a lawyer in front of a tsunami. There are others like it: lumberjacks, oil refinery workers, modem-operated ISPs, etc. Instead of bitching at change itself for ruining your career, like a stockbroker bitches at the DoJ (for telling the truth) while their MS stock goes down, see it coming early and change with it. AOL wised up (unforunately) and merged with Time-Warner, so that they have cable to work with. (AOL is next on the monopoly list...) > I do admit it was a mistake to answer both your posts together in my > previous post. It was mostly Brendan I was responding to, his replies were > so idiotic. Your post, deekay, was better argued, especially the last one, > and I apologize if I insulted you. Oh gee...fuck you too! > You see, even if I am truly am wrong, I have to question this... If you > look at the list I compiled of other respources involved, the money seems > to get split up quite a few ways, doesn't it? 5% here, 2% there, 3% here, > etc.... It's as though they are all investors or shareholders in the band, > in a sense. I'm guessing the artists rank 2nd or 3rd in size of shares. > My guess is it's either the graphic designers or the grunt work marketers > who "make the least money". We are trying to figure out who makes the MOST money. Like I said with computer software, the creators get a 30% cut or so, not 5%. They have the same type of jobs in the producer end: marketing, GFX artists, CD punchers, advertisers, etc. > I was watching MTV awhile back, and they profiled the lifestyle of the bass > player for Limp Bizkit. Just the bass player, only 1/4 (1/5th?) of a > popular band, so by Brendan's reasoning he should only have made about > $7,000 last year. So damn, he must have gotten a fantastic deal on the > lovely house and fancy cars they showed! I make a bit more than $7,000 > anually, and I could never afford all the stuff he had! Where did the > money come from? Maybe your figures don't take everything into account, > like publishing royalties, for example. Then where ARE the musicians getting the money from? The current numbers simply don't add up. Come on now, you're a "major player" from Tower Records. Pull up a record of one of your artists and figure out how much money he makes. > Consider, deekay, that the heads of the Major labels make tons of money > because they have invested not in one, or several, but thousands of > artists, and by taking a *small* cut on ALL those album sales (not 95%, are > you kidding?), they make lots and lots of money. Is that wrong? Just like > the label/bank comparison. Yes, obviously when a bank hands out a business > loan, it does not recoup ALL the profits and assets if the business is > successful. But by handing out thousands of different loans, and taking > their interest on the loans, they end up being fabulously wealthy. Is that > wrong? We aren't talking about the distro to label ratio. We're talking about the label to artist ratio. > 2. Or they can post mp3's to the internet, hoping the industry figures out > how to sell the files while preventing folk from simply copying or burning > them illegaly, so the artist gets paid for more than 1/100 of the files > being listened to. Let's consider an old game called "Doom". Doom was a shareware game, but pirated versions of the registered game were even more popular than the shareware version. In fact, only 5% of the registered copies were paid for. So, this meant that id Software went under and was never seen again? No! They are the most popular household name in FPS games now! If people are copying your MP3 songs all over creation, don't you think you'd become really popular? Even if everybody didn't pay for them, enough people would buy the album. Hey wait...isn't that what's happening now? > Does this list truly believe the collapse of the music industry as it now > stands would be a good thing? How many Orbital mp3 files are you all > planning on purchasing in the next year? It depends if Orbital is official selling them. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 16:47:01 +0000 Kurt Foy Booker wrote: > > You do realize that the royalties discussed by you or myself (or in the > original post that kicked this all off) are not the only amounts of money > made by a musician. I think the $2.00 per CD are the "mechanicals" (That > might be the wrong term... not my line of country exactly). But as I > understand it, most money is made from Publishing. ASCAP/BMI stuff. > Everytime your song is played by a radio station, or a jukebox, or used in > an advertisement, or in a department store, the songwriter gets paid. A > bass player from Santana once joked that everytime he heard Black Magic > Woman played on the radio, he went and bought a new pair of shoes, because > he knew that's how much it was worth... I don't think he was complaining... One, is it really to the songwriters or the labels? Since big time labels like to put so much faith in the difference between the song and the recording, I think the labels get the money from royalities. Two, that's already a fucked up system. Is Orbital getting any royalities? Not from where I'm standing. I don't here Orbital ANYWHERE on the radio. In fact, I don't here techno anywhere on the radio. Where do THEY get their money? Where do the punk/metal bands get their money? (And I'm not talking about the pussy Metallica "metal" shit.) What about the less popular bands/genres? They don't get air time, so I guess they don't make money, right? > Here's that part I cut out before, Brendan :-) But your numbers may not be > too accurate. Lots of other ways to milk the cow when you have a hit > record on your hands. You seem to think that touring is a sure money maker > (although I can hear many touring bands go "pfffttthpppp!!!") Or maybe > they should put out some more promo CDs! Like I said, I'm only going by the number given to me. If you want better math, give me better numbers, since you have access to them. > waitaminute... how in the hell did backstreet boys and n'sync become so > popular?? Their brilliant music???! It was the label staff and marketers, > you dumbass!! So, are you saying that Orbitals label staff and marketers suck or what? > And your implication that Orbital and the Chemical Brothers don't get too > much exposure... do you live in a cave? Seriously now, when was the last time you heard a Chem Bros or Orbital song on the radio? Ummmm... Errrr... Never? > But we still are stuck in a system which considers resources to be > "limited". Not quite enough to go around, and so we scramble and fight > over what does exist. It would be great if every album could go platinum, > and every hard working artist could make millions... but I'm afraid we > would then have too many hard working artists, and no plumbers, doctors, > teachers or computer programmers! Then why are you fighting the unstoppable change? Here's a chance for the unpopular musician to get just as much exposure as the popular one, and you're fighting it every step of the way! -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) the relationship between e-ccommerce and self abuse Date: 16 Apr 2000 09:25:59 +0000 >There's the concept of the responsibility-circles.. It says that you >feel most responsibility for yourself, the second-most for your >family, the third-most for your friends, then stuff like community, >city, nation, world.. With every wider circle you feel less >responsibility, though you still feel like part of it somehow. If you >look at the world today, these circles grow smaller and smaller, >people feel less and less responsibility for anything but >themselves! I talked to a russian friend of mine >(who's been through QUITE some shit in his life!) about ethics, and >talking to him i realized that ethics is something that you can just >afford when you are not struggling for existance, however i think >none of us are, so we should fucking USE the opportunity and try to >make the world a better place! So where theres no sense of having control or power theres no ethics either. I saw an interview with Bill Gates and even he's afraid of his company being wiped out by the competition, seems strange to me that the richest man in the world should see himself so powerless in that way - and yet his companys biggest threat is because of it's ethics ! >It's just that with all the current Business and eCommerce-Hype >i see the free internet going down pretty soon if we don't act! >Like NOT buying online if it's not absolutely necessary! If they >don't sell over the net, they'll soon lose interest! Trouble is that the money from E-Commerce is what funds much of the infrastructure and the free phone calls ! I am a bit worried about the commercialisation of the net in some ways. Have you seen the hunger site ? You click on banners that go to pornography websites and the money from the clicks goes to feed people in Africa... Are we just looking forward to all these improvements in technology so we can sit there beating the meat to 50 channels of virtual Internet porn in Dolby surround stereo, with subtitles in 1000 local dialects because nobody can even be bothered to leave the house ??! (shit..I know I wouldn't, that's why it's so scary !!) >If the information age is all about superficiality, egoism and >hipocrisy i'd rather go back, cause i fucking don't think this >is so very great! Isn't it a shit world we live in? > ..and the basic problem of almost everything is that there >are WAY too many people on the globe! >Pissed and pretty depressed, DeeKay Victims of our own success in more ways than one... A lot of things are wrong but don't get depressed, understanding the whole world is impossible because it's too much to take in ! Sometimes I find it's good to remember that over time all civilisations emerge change and fade away - then I can see the present and not be too upset about it. We will all be looked at and laughed at one day and so will they ! (serves them right too..the uncaring fuckwits !!) I'm just wrapping up another tinsel turd for Mr Sony Corporation. Direct action !! Woohoo !! Thanks for your post ! ;-) Bye for now, -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might begin to reach you, why we give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (ot) Addendum to the mp3 thing.. Date: 16 Apr 2000 21:00:50 +0000 Kurt wrote: > I do admit it was a mistake to answer both your posts together in my > previous post. It was mostly Brendan I was responding to, his > replies were so idiotic. Your post, deekay, was better argued, > especially the last one, and I apologize if I insulted you. Spoken like a gentleman! ;-D > I do think that your hearts are in the right place, Brendan and deekay. If > I understand your arguments correctly, you want the lesser-known musicians, > the non-backstreet boys who put much more of their soul and hard work into > their music to get more money. Am I right? I wish that could happen too. > I wish we could all be wealthy, without concern over rent or bills, able to > afford any luxuries we desire - all while doing creative work we love! > > But we still are stuck in a system which considers resources to be > "limited". Not quite enough to go around, and so we scramble and fight > over what does exist. It would be great if every album could go platinum, > and every hard working artist could make millions... but I'm afraid we > would then have too many hard working artists, and no plumbers, doctors, > teachers or computer programmers! > Good point! <:-) But that opens up another topic: Should music GENERALLY be paid so well? 8) Shouldn't it be about the music rather than about money? I know some people will now scream: "then why are you bitching about the record companies paying them not enough money?" - Well, that's cause i think when in the current situation there's so much money MADE, it should damn well go to the artist to a large extent! But i would rather prefer the whole music-thing to be less about money and more about music! If you look at fine arts for example, there's also quite some money going around, but there's NOTHING like a "fine-arts industry", however there is a so called "music-industry"! And THIS sucks!.. Music is art just like fine-arts, why can't it be as independant of greedy corporations like fine-arts? I would say an artist doing great music should be well-paid, e.g. like an upper-class manager, and all the record-industry people should be more like service-people that serve the artist, just like the owner of a gallery that sells a painters works! Ofcourse they should be paid, too, but the POWER and freedom of choice should lie with the artist (and his agent if needed).. Another question is: Does music really NEED "platinum SELLING", marketing, "charts" and "hits"? What would be so bad if music was more local? Ofcourse, certain people would be so good that their reputation spreads over the world, but then it's because they're so good, and then that's totally justified! Charts are like a "ranking" for arts!.. And that sucks like hell! WHY does one need to put songs in a "ranking"? That would be like giving scores for sex! "Well, that was a 10-point blowjob but the intercourse was just a mere 5!" >:-) - Hello??? Isn't music something to be enjoyed, to be enchanted by? How can one (especially COMPANIES!) judge it.. FOR US? did i ever ask them to?? this whole thing has gone hella astray if you ask me, and i pinpoint this to the mid-sixties when some record-company manager high on coke suddenly had this idea: "Hey! The artists won't be making any money without us! Why don't WE control the whole thing??" Like said, the whole thing will be heavily changing within the next few years, record companies will probably/hopefully go back to being serving people i guess, but i believe the outcome will be good! 8) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) the relationship between e-ccommerce and self abus Date: 16 Apr 2000 23:01:30 +0000 Mark S-D: > >There's the concept of the responsibility-circles.. It says that you > >feel most responsibility for yourself, the second-most for your > >family, the third-most for your friends, then stuff like community, > >city, nation, world.. With every wider circle you feel less > >responsibility, though you still feel like part of it somehow. If you > >look at the world today, these circles grow smaller and smaller, > >people feel less and less responsibility for anything but > >themselves! I talked to a russian friend of mine > >(who's been through QUITE some shit in his life!) about ethics, and > >talking to him i realized that ethics is something that you can just > >afford when you are not struggling for existance, however i think > >none of us are, so we should fucking USE the opportunity and try to > >make the world a better place! > > So where theres no sense of having control or power theres no ethics > either. I saw an interview with Bill Gates and even he's afraid of his > company being wiped out by the competition, seems strange to me that the > richest man in the world should see himself so powerless in that way - and > yet his companys biggest threat is because of it's ethics ! > Yeah, agreed, this is pretty strange!.. I think M$' often quoted "success" is to a large part due to Bill having the unscrupulousness of a major businessman and at the same time the hot-bloodedness of a backstreet brawler! He's choleric and he's out to DESTROY the competition, he's not content with being the primus! Hell, he's not even content with the WHOLE cake he got, desktop computing, no matter if even THAT one is already too big to eat, no, he's gotta have the other cakes, too! The browser-market, the server market, the workstation market, the handheld market, soon even the console market and the broadband-internet market! If you read a little about him and his life you realize he's always been like that! Look at other companies, they sometimes cooperate with companies that the normal guy would consider their arch-enemies! An example would be Intel and Digital! But why do they do that? Because their only aim is profit, and if that cooperation promises profit, they'll do it! M$ would never do that, they only did it with Apple cause they have Apple as their alibi to show that they're not a monopoly! Other than that, cooperations with M$ mean "embrace & extend", meaning they suck their partner dry in knowledge until they have enough to do their own thing, and then they drop them or ruin them! There are various examples of this!.. Hmm, got led pretty offtopic there! <:-) So back to the topic.. > >It's just that with all the current Business and eCommerce-Hype > >i see the free internet going down pretty soon if we don't act! > >Like NOT buying online if it's not absolutely necessary! If they > >don't sell over the net, they'll soon lose interest! > > Trouble is that the money from E-Commerce is what funds much of the > infrastructure and the free phone calls ! I used to think that, too, but i just recently read that it's not the case! In fact it's the OTHER way around, they use the existing infrastructure and clog up the lines with their stuff! There are no records that i know of that some commercial Internet-company ever contributed to the net's infrastructure! They are just paying the backbone providers and ISPs like Joe Blow does! > I am a bit worried about the > commercialisation of the net in some ways. Have you seen the hunger site ? > You click on banners that go to pornography websites and the money from the > clicks goes to feed people in Africa... Are we just looking forward to all > these improvements in technology so we can sit there beating the meat to 50 > channels of virtual Internet porn in Dolby surround stereo, with subtitles > in 1000 local dialects because nobody can even be bothered to leave the > house ??! (shit..I know I wouldn't, that's why it's so scary !!) > LOL! 8) Now THAT's some new idea!.. Pr-0n-Bannerklicks for Africa!.. "Hey! What are you doing surfing pr0n during your working time?" - "No, Boss, I'm just helping the starving children in Africa!" 8))) I would like to see the Boss who buys that story! If commercialization stays banners then i guess it's bearable! But as soon as they introduce micro-payment the cow is slaughtered! You can see the free internet go down within a year then! Did you hear about the site lyrics.ch? That was a global project where everyone interested could contribute songtexts to! They had a HUGE database and it was used frequently by millions of people! Their server-costs were financed by banners. Now the record-companies (again!! >:-( came along and said that there'd be a copyright on these songtexts and took it down! they announced plans to introduce something similar that would require payment! So that was the start, in a few years you won't be having all these cool sites anymore that offer some service for free! As soon as there's a WAY to make money, you can be sure someone will come along and make it, and the first thing he's gonna take care of are the ones that offer the same service for free! >:-( > >If the information age is all about superficiality, egoism and > >hipocrisy i'd rather go back, cause i fucking don't think this > >is so very great! Isn't it a shit world we live in? > > ..and the basic problem of almost everything is that there > >are WAY too many people on the globe! > >Pissed and pretty depressed, DeeKay > > Victims of our own success in more ways than one... A lot of things are > wrong but don't get depressed, understanding the whole world is impossible > because it's too much to take in ! Sometimes I find it's good to remember > that over time all civilisations emerge change and fade away - then I can > see the present and not be too upset about it. We will all be looked at and > laughed at one day and so will they ! (serves them right too..the uncaring > fuckwits !!) > yeah, you're probably right, but that doesn't make the world more attractive to me TODAY! <:-) > I'm just wrapping up another tinsel turd for Mr Sony Corporation. Direct > action !! Woohoo !! > Yeaaah! ;-D that's the spirit! Put a dead mouse in there for me, too! >;-D DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mehul Parekh I" Subject: (orbital) STOP IT! Date: 16 Apr 2000 20:06:53 -0500 Didn't we already have this argument about mp3's and how hard working artists such as orbital and other no-names in America are getting screwed over by companies. Why are we having this argument again? MP3's are good for testing, and if you are never going to buy it or are never going to get access to it, you can use it until you do. But if you only want to use mp3's you are find to do so. We have been through this time after time, but still there is some kind of misunderstanding about it because every 2 months it comes up now. Big deal! We all have different views on things. Drop the topic, its like the drugs b.s. that was started before about whether or not you should do it. What, do you really think that talking about this is on our mailing list is going to reach the mailbox of some lurking music industry person or the head of sony or some management person who is going to make sure that artists get paid more because...'well, people on the orbital list are pissed about it.' Brendan, step off your high horse of knowledge and shit. In the last month and a half, you have written more shit emails about women, windows nt v. linux and now this than anyone in the past. This is a orbital mailing list...take your windows talk to a windows mailing list. And why is it that you feel the intense desire to swear at every chance you get. Do you really think that supports your argument? you were the one that sent that link to a page that said 'what you shouldn't do in an argument.' People, this is an orbital mailing list...discuss orbital (not how much or how little orbital is getting paid...although i agree that they are underpaid...solution: support them, their music) and other music stuff...e.g., artists, styles of music, etc. I am sorry to complain about all this, but within the last 2 months or so, I havent received a hearty peice of mail from the mailing list that had much to do with orbital (please dont go digging through your msg files to find the message from 2 months ago that was orbital related). And dont flame me, especially you, Brendan. And I would like to answer this question... > > waitaminute... how in the hell did backstreet boys and n'sync become so > > popular?? This might just be a theory, but I think that it is because a majority of teens in the U.S. are horny (nothing wrong with that) and looking for an idol. You dont see many guys at N'Sync or B Boys concerts, but you will see the same girls at the B Spears concert because they want to be like her. What about posters that all these guys/girls do? Mehul Parekh I __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Brunet Subject: (orbital) orbital (what a shock) Date: 16 Apr 2000 21:32:42 -0400 Hello all - I'm sorry if my subject suggested that I might actually have an on-topic post. Not quite.... I can only assume that the lack of orbital (or even music-related) posts recently has been because fellow list-readers are, like me, deleting their mail even before reading it, because they're so frustrated with this list's content recently. In the last hundred or so posts, I'd guess *maybe* 20 have been music-related. I'm not going to comment on the quality of any of the mp3-vs.-label posts - each person has had valid and bullsh*t comments on the music industry. I can't (nor do I want to) judge who is right vs. wrong because I am not in the industry. So please don't flame me (unless you're upset about orbital-related material on this site). There have been offers of peace made over this issue, and I beg the parties involved to take them - I know it's a dry spell for the brothers H just now, but that doesn't mean that we have to turn this list into our own flaming grounds. I'm sorry if I unfairly speak for the group, but I'd rather receive no posts than flame after flame that's not even related to our collective topic - Orbital. So there's this band: they're called Orbital, and they make excellent music. Possible topics: The "subway" concept for MON: "Way Out ->" matches the exit signs in the london underground stations, new york subways are sometimes so decrepit that they seem like "spare parts express"es, I saw "know where to run" graffitti'd on the wall of the elephant and castle tube stop about a year ago, very rarely do you know people that you travel with on the subway ("I don't know you people"). On and on it goes. Any other theories or cool concepts that people see in Orbital albums? What past films do you wish the Brothers H had scored? Anyone else think that they could have done a raging "fight club" score (not that the dust brothers did a poor job). Think PETROL times 10. Later ya'll, Mike # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy Date: 16 Apr 2000 20:50:32 MDT Hey, If anyone has been to my site yet, I would appreciate it if you sent an e-mail back telling me what you thought. Thanks, Mike Dunn www.mp3.com/ShoestringCowboy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony N Gall Subject: Re: (orbital) orbital (what a shock) Date: 16 Apr 2000 21:51:56 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, Michael Brunet wrote: > The "subway" concept for MON: Wow, I've never thought about that before! But now that you've got me thinking, MoN does have a lot more "technological" feel to it than the previous records. There's emotion on it of course, but there seems to be less than, say Insides or Sniv. Maybe they meant to make it that way? A commentary on how things have been going lately..? All just my opinions of course, but still pretty interesting -Anthony # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) STOP IT! Date: 17 Apr 2000 03:46:18 +0000 Mehul Parekh I wrote: > > Didn't we already have this argument about mp3's and how hard working > artists such as orbital and other no-names in America are getting screwed > over by companies. Why are we having this argument again? First of all, PLEASE split your paragraphs. They are very hard to read otherwise. And we are having this argument because the ML would be dead if we didn't. (I noticed that this is the only subject we've had in about four days.) If the message load got to be too much, we'd probably stop and take it privately, but I thought a lot of you were interested in the topic. > Brendan, step off your high horse of knowledge and shit. In the last month > and a half, you have written more shit emails about women, windows nt v. > linux and now this than anyone in the past. This is a orbital mailing > list...take your windows talk to a windows mailing list. And why is it that > you feel the intense desire to swear at every chance you get. Do you really > think that supports your argument? you were the one that sent that link to > a page that said 'what you shouldn't do in an argument.' Again, it's OT. If you don't wanna read, fine. I try to stay somewhere within the topic of electronica, and MP3s are definately about that. And why do I swear? Because English is a fucking colorful language :) > People, this is an orbital mailing list...discuss orbital (not how much or > how little orbital is getting paid...although i agree that they are > underpaid...solution: support them, their music) and other music > stuff...e.g., artists, styles of music, etc. > I am sorry to complain about all this, but within the last 2 months or so, I > havent received a hearty peice of mail from the mailing list that had much > to do with orbital (please dont go digging through your msg files to find > the message from 2 months ago that was orbital related). Muhel, how many times do we have to tell you? This isn't just an Orbital mailing list. It's called the OML, but anything within the realm of techno is ok. If this was strictly a Orbital mailing list, we'd get 10 e-mails a month. If I wanted that, I could just check Steve's site for Orbital news every once in a while. > And dont flame me, especially you, Brendan. > And I would like to answer this question... Oh please. You know I'll flame AND answer the questions! :P -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) orbital (what a shock) Date: 17 Apr 2000 03:52:22 +0000 Michael Brunet wrote: > > I can only assume that the lack of orbital (or even music-related) posts > recently has been because fellow list-readers are, like me, deleting their > mail even before reading it, because they're so frustrated with this list's > content recently. In the last hundred or so posts, I'd guess *maybe* 20 > have been music-related. I'm not going to comment on the quality of any of > the mp3-vs.-label posts - each person has had valid and bullsh*t comments > on the music industry. I can't (nor do I want to) judge who is right vs. > wrong because I am not in the industry. So please don't flame me (unless > you're upset about orbital-related material on this site). There have been > offers of peace made over this issue, and I beg the parties involved to > take them - I know it's a dry spell for the brothers H just now, but that > doesn't mean that we have to turn this list into our own flaming grounds. > I'm sorry if I unfairly speak for the group, but I'd rather receive no > posts than flame after flame that's not even related to our collective > topic - Orbital. How do you know it's been flame after flame? You delete most of your messages. I think we've been doing pretty well to quell the flames and keep this to a luke-warm level. And I hate no posts. Absolutely nothing to look forward to. > Possible topics: > > The "subway" concept for MON: "Way Out ->" matches the exit signs in the > london underground stations, new york subways are sometimes so decrepit > that they seem like "spare parts express"es, I saw "know where to run" > graffitti'd on the wall of the elephant and castle tube stop about a year > ago, very rarely do you know people that you travel with on the subway ("I > don't know you people"). On and on it goes. Any other theories or cool > concepts that people see in Orbital albums? > > What past films do you wish the Brothers H had scored? Anyone else think > that they could have done a raging "fight club" score (not that the dust > brothers did a poor job). Think PETROL times 10. Oh great...back to unintelligent smalltalk about Orbital... Next thing you want us to do is some damned Orbital poll. I get enough polls on my own MB. (So much so that I have a forum for it.) -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) MoN: More technological? Date: 17 Apr 2000 03:55:23 +0000 Anthony N Gall wrote: > > Wow, I've never thought about that before! But now that you've got me > thinking, MoN does have a lot more "technological" feel to it than the > previous records. There's emotion on it of course, but there seems to be > less than, say Insides or Sniv. Maybe they meant to make it that way? A > commentary on how things have been going lately..? All just my opinions of > course, but still pretty interesting Are you joking? If anything, MoN added a lot more conventional instruments, like horns and strings. It has a -less- technological feel to it, and that's not really a bad thing, either. I love a perfect marriage between techno and conventional. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JL Jones" Subject: Re: (orbital) orbital (what a shock) Date: 16 Apr 2000 21:47:03 -0400 Well, I took "spare parts express" as an upfront tribute to Kraftwerk. Didn't get the impression there was anymore to it than that. More power to P&P for it too!! /home/lunarpark-1/Jim J. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 9:32 PM > > The "subway" concept for MON: "Way Out ->" matches the exit signs in the > london underground stations, new york subways are sometimes so decrepit > that they seem like "spare parts express"es # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony N Gall Subject: Re: (orbital) MoN: More technological? Date: 16 Apr 2000 23:54:37 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > Are you joking? If anything, MoN added a lot more conventional instruments, > like horns and strings. It has a -less- technological feel to it, and that's > not really a bad thing, either. I love a perfect marriage between techno and > conventional. No, I'm not joking...just my opinion, nothing more nothing less :) What I really liked was when the Hartnolls have been able to get that emotion using solely (or at least as far as I can tell) electronic means, like with TGWTSIHH. It seems like a harder thing to accomplish to me, so I admire them for that. -Anthony # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) MoN: More technological? Date: 17 Apr 2000 05:12:48 +0000 Anthony N Gall wrote: > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > > No, I'm not joking...just my opinion, nothing more nothing less :) > What I really liked was when the Hartnolls have been able to get that > emotion using solely (or at least as far as I can tell) electronic means, > like with TGWTSIHH. It seems like a harder thing to accomplish to me, so I > admire them for that. GSH is still my absolute favorite song, and it's partly because of the slow build-up and partly because of the many strings. There is no emotion in music. Those are simply abstract concepts that catagorize different instruments into emotional constructs. Strings tend to add "emotion" to any track. Just listen to any trance combo. MoN doesn't lack "emotion"; it's just something in a different sense. For example, I'm listening to "I Don't Know You People", and it has more of a menacing mood to it. Way Out's mood is in the same vein as GSH, though with a faster beat. (As such, it's my second favorite Orbital track.) Spare Part Express's mood is "wacky" and somewhat whimsical. Just because it's not a mellow or relaxing mood doesn't mean it "lacks emotion". -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) orbital song discussion Date: 17 Apr 2000 08:37:25 -0400 I have an idea to tide over this lull in on-topic discussion.=A0 I think = we could talk about one Orbital song every week, and give our opinions = and insights on it.=A0 Since I thought of this, I'm gonna start it off = with Mock Tudor (Style Single CD 1).=A0 Oh, it's on my site if you don't = have it.=A0 And get it. I really, really like this song, actually.=A0 That part that starts at = 2:11 is very neat.=A0 I remember someone asking which songs sounded like = the Event Horizon soundtrack, and I would say Mock Tudor and Petrol.=A0 = Especially the parts in Mock Tudor when they have the samples of the = voices going.=A0 I also like when the flute kicks in at 3 minutes.=A0 I'm= = trying to remember what the chords in the background remind me of.=A0 = Plus, the chimes and xylophones at 3:30 are telltale Orbital.=A0 I feel = this is a really underrated song, and I'm surprised so few people know = about it (in other words, it should have been on MoN).=A0 I could see how= = someone would find it repetitive, but I found the song incredibly = creative and never boring.=A0 I'm sure I'm going to find a lot more to sa= y = after I get responses.=A0 Oh, I really like the voices you can hear from = 7 = minutes - end of track, too.=A0 Neat.=A0 Ok, what do you people think of the idea, and write ideas for which song = we should talk about next, too.=A0 About the subway/MoN idea, I really = don't agree.=A0 Simply because I don't think Orbital had that in mind.=A0= I = just get a completely different image.=A0 Mock Tudor just puts this = surreal, "Middle of Nowhere", peaceful image into my head.=A0 I think mos= t = of the songs on MoN try to illustrate the hub-bub of city life and the = idiocy of western society.=A0 This is very well illustrated by the subway= = correlation, and also the MoN coverart.=A0 I really like how it ends in = Style, though; that song makes me unbelievably happy every time I hear = it.=A0 Seriously, on the verge of tears, it's that good.=A0 Maybe we'll t= alk = about it later. Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Price, Steve A" Subject: (orbital) Wtf part 2 Date: 17 Apr 2000 15:05:59 +0100 >> Disagree with the above. I know for a fact the London Records and Orbital >> dont make a good profit on any tour. They ensure the audience has audio and >> visual delight at the gigs and that doesnt come cheap! Brendan wrote >It's a rare behavior to have low price tickets at high quality audio/visuals. and ? The price isnt low because they have to pay for the extra visual stuff you get at Orbital gigs. I think an Orbital gig is worth every penny and the whole point is....they make peanuts from a tour. >> Promos are given away to promote the music - no profit on promos. Brendan wrote: >BS. It's the same profit as the MP3s: people buying the music. No, this isn't >a statistic that you can easily track, but they definately make money off of >this. Otherwise, why the hell would they be doing it? The only money they make is from Record Sales. Mp3s and Promos help records get sold or encourage the radio stations, djs, whatever to play the music. Hopefully people like it...and they buy it. Then that money is spliced up and a profit is made. Promos = no profit. >Also, tours tend to make lots of money from T-shirts, but it all depends on the >costs of the tour on whether they make money or not. not correct in all cases. Orbital for example sometimes use concessions (sp!)- where the venue itself sells the t-shirts and a small percentage is given back to Orbital. It all depends on the venue....Town and Country in Leeds used concessions whereas Wolverhampton Civic Hall didnt. Good merchandise profit in Wolverhampton...shite in Leeds. A lot of money goes into Orbital gigs....profit is pityfull. Naturally not all acts are like Orbital... Steve LOOPZ Price Orbital Zine www.loopz.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Price, Steve A" Subject: (orbital) Orbitals cut ? Date: 17 Apr 2000 15:08:37 +0100 Brendan >I think you're missing the point. Even after the musicians have established a >career for themselves, they STILL don't get shit for money. The fact that the >term "selling out" exists implies that even the big guys with long-standing >career still don't make enough money. Steve, do you know how much of a cut >Orbital, a group now working on their sixth album, get from their label? I dont and i wouldnt divulge if i did. I dont know what the arguement is anymore. There are a lot of bad things about the music industry and a lot of people shouting how crap this is and that is. But....what is the answer ? How can you satisfy the artists, the record company, the people behind the scenes and the buying customer ? Steve LOOPZ Price Orbital Zine www.loopz.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy Date: 17 Apr 2000 17:06:54 +0000 Mike Dunn wrote: > > Hey, > If anyone has been to my site yet, I would appreciate it if you sent an > e-mail back telling me what you thought. No offense, but they sound like some bad MOD/S3Ms. You definately need to change your instrument set. The old MIDI sounds might work with the Moby crowd, but they don't work for anybody else. Also, spend more time with your riffs, instead of using tried and overused ones. Third, for god's sake, use some chords! Real music lives off them. I'm not trying to insult you or anything, but if you want to go out a produce some music that people will enjoy, you need to put a lot more effort into your music. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony N Gall Subject: (orbital) (Offtopic) Killfile Date: 17 Apr 2000 12:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Hi guys, Yes I know this is offtopic, but if anyone would be so kind as to let me know how to put someone in my killfile using Pine 4 (for UNIX), I'd appreciate it. Please reply in private, thanks :) -Anthony # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Belbin Subject: (orbital) Beached and other stuff Date: 17 Apr 2000 19:50:44 +0100 jesus man! How much are you having to pay for Beached? There were two copies in my local (british) store at =A34 - happily pick them up and exchange them for something interesting if anyones interested. $10 seems an awful lot for an import, I just picked up a Jeff Mills import for about a quid more than it would probavbly have been otherwise (bloody good album too - kinda varies between what you'd expect (well, what I'd expect) of a Jeff Mills album, and lots of stuff that sounds distinctly like our favourite brothers latter period) btw - after a long three month wait I finally got my cd-writer (sadly, its just THE sexiest bit of hardware I've ever come across (NOTE TO SELF: watch the spelling there). Does anyone know of good software for inserting/removing track markers and generally cleaning up/pissing around a bit with recordings? oh, btw - anyone know where I could get some pics from the Seattle riots? much needed to annoy people at work - tho the way things are going, I'll be able to get some awfully similar ones in the next few days. ta Rich Now spinning round my head: Jeff Mills Detached Clinic Return of Evil Bill Groundhogs Split part 2 # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "benjib" Subject: RE: (orbital) orbital song discussion Date: 17 Apr 2000 21:30:58 +0100 mornin' sort of a carry on from the "lets discuss" a track - ie style if any of you buy furfighters to play on your dreamcasts (available shortly) listen carefully to all the roofus versions of the "world" tracks bigpipe style anyone??? thats me at work that is probably at the moment this will only mean something to funky dung but it might go someway to explaining my mail on the loopz page - melon farmer .... also quick note have recently received twist and turn by soft ballet from japan - its still available new and contains the okish believe in a blue world remix by orbital you can order it from comfort records in japan mail me at work for the email/web address (benjib@acclaimstudios.co.uk) have fun benjib www.tapirindustries.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) Complaints Date: 17 Apr 2000 23:32:37 +0000 Michael Brunet: > doesn't mean that we have to turn this list into our own flaming grounds. > I'm sorry if I unfairly speak for the group, but I'd rather receive no > posts than flame after flame that's not even related to our collective > topic - Orbital. > Sorry, but we weren't flaming, there were some harsh words sometimes, but all in all we had a very civilized discussion with alot of valid points and mostly good arguments! You'd have noticed that if you didn't automatically "hit the delete button"! > I am sorry to complain about all this, but within the last 2 months > or so, I havent received a hearty peice of mail from the mailing > list that had much to do with orbital (please dont go digging > through your msg files to find the message from 2 months ago that > was orbital related). I put alot of heart and about 2 hours of work in my review of the Sniv cover just some weeks ago... did i see a single reply except for Mark's??? No! And that's just ONE example, BY FAR not the first time i write something ULTRA-Orbital related and interesting that i basically get zero replies to, so DON'T come running now complaining!! Three options: 1) You indulge in orbital-related matters yourself and DO reply when someone introduces an Orbital-topic, 2) You don't complain about people who also like to discuss PRETTY MUCH related topics 3) You unsub cause neither of the fist 2 options seems appropriate for you! ...and this goes out to ALL the people on the list! >:-( I do agree that we shouldn't spam the list with totally offtopic things and i myself am the guy to prefer silence more than heavy traffic though you might not think so.. By the way: We're just having the MoN thing for the x-th time now!.. We've classified what it is and in how far it differs from the other albums WAY too often now!.. I find this more boring than having another argument about the record industry, but with new figures and expecially with (for the first time!) someone who works IN the record industry itself, that adds a totally new spin to the thing cause with everyone agreeing it wouldn't be much of an argument, or would it? 8) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) Re: Mock Tudor Date: 17 Apr 2000 23:32:37 +0000 Mark Sawa wrote: > I really, really like this song, actually.=A0 That part that starts at=20 > 2:11 is very neat.=A0 The funny thing is that this part is TOTALLY c64 style! 8) I might have a few .sid-files that you could listen to on your PC=20 that you might like! ;-D > I remember someone asking which songs sounded like=20 > the Event Horizon soundtrack, and I would say Mock Tudor and Petrol.=A0= =20 > Especially the parts in Mock Tudor when they have the samples of the=20 > voices going.=A0 I also like when the flute kicks in at 3 minutes.=A0 Somehow i don't like the flute too much... it's a bit of=20 in-how-many-ways-can-i-play-5-tones rather than catchy! <:-) > I'm=20 > trying to remember what the chords in the background remind me of.=A0=20 > Plus, the chimes and xylophones at 3:30 are telltale Orbital.=A0 I feel= =20 > this is a really underrated song, and I'm surprised so few people know=20 > about it (in other words, it should have been on MoN).=A0 Hehe! 8) Quote Juno/Noisewerker: "Mock Tudor" kicks ass ! Does anyone else feel that it should have been on MON ?" I think someone mentioned that it's actually the only Orbital-song=20 that's not 4/4 but rather a 7/8 (?) Waltz-Rhythm! 8) I think that's=20 why it's so fascinating! ;-D > I could see how=20 > someone would find it repetitive, but I found the song incredibly=20 > creative and never boring.=A0 I'm sure I'm going to find a lot more to = say=20 > after I get responses.=A0 Oh, I really like the voices you can hear fro= m 7=20 > minutes - end of track, too.=A0 Neat.=A0 >=20 Yeah, it really is a brilliant track for sure! 8)) > Ok, what do you people think of the idea, and write ideas for which son= g=20 > we should talk about next, too.=A0=20 I like the idea! 8) My suggestion for the next one would be Semi Detached! 8) Highly underrated, the song that got me into Orbital in the first=20 place and which i finally dug up on the net after unsuccessfully=20 scanning all the stores around in a time LONG before mainstream-mp3s=20 and searchengines! 8) Yeah, i got the Diversions-Original these days,=20 thanks! ;-D Hell, the ONLY copy on the net was 112kbps and had this ONE annoying=20 glitch, so i sat down and fixed it manually! ;-D That's how much i love that song! 8) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Green Subject: (orbital) (ot) cleaning up/pissing around a bit with recordings Date: 18 Apr 2000 00:01:15 +0100 At 19:50 17/04/00 +0100, Richard Belbin wrote: > >Does anyone know of good software for >inserting/removing track markers and generally cleaning up/pissing around a >bit with recordings? well I use a shareware program called Wave Repair for taking the vinyl clicks out of tracks - I find it really easy to use. http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~abcomp/wavrep.htm for details. Jon # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: (orbital) OT: FSOL Date: 17 Apr 2000 19:11:46 EDT People, check Marc's server for the recent additions of FSOL's fine works "Lifeforms" and "Dead Cities." :-) Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Skip Acuff" Subject: (orbital) No Orbital scheduled, but Autechre Live Si!! Date: 17 Apr 2000 20:17:06 -0700 http://www.sonar.es/indexb.htm NOTE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this E-Mail or by telephone at (602) 262-5311. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jon Subject: (orbital) New Orbital remix discovered Date: 18 Apr 2000 01:02:05 -0700 Hi all, I happened across an unusual item that you Orbital-philes may be interested in. Appears the Brothers Hartnoll did some production work for a band called "CONFUSION" in 1995. I found a mysterious Japanese white label 12" from 1995, with the following info: ARTIST: Confusion TITLE: Joy/Way To Go Catalog: (CON 001) HDJJ 93003 Antinos Records, Japan (PROMO 12") Tracklisting: Joy (ORBITAL remix) Way To Go (Ken Ishii remix) Way to Go (Last front remix) No discography has listed this item yet, but after listening to it, I can guarantee for sure it definitely is an Orbital remix. Cheers, Jon # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AJ Brustein Subject: Re: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy Date: 18 Apr 2000 07:07:08 -0400 OK. Some of you may remember me. I am AJ. I have been away from my computer a lot recently, so I have said nothing on this list. But that is not the only reason. Even though it is so late, happy birthday Rob. I need to get back to Avalon! If I can find your email address somewhere on my computer I will email you. Otherwise, email me back if you get this. Anyway, the other real reason why I have not been posting anything here is because of our friend Brenden. First of all, like someone just said before, I have pretty much been deleting all the mails recently if I see anything about MP3 or promos or anything like that that the recent "discussions" have been about. Cause, I don't have the time to read them and I don't really care either. I can't even get Napster to work on my computer and I don't have any MP3s other than the ones I made myself. Of course I don't wanna talk about Orbital all day either cause I would probably just delete those mails too, so I am not complainly that much about the topic of the mails, but more the way they are being handled. I wasn't going to say anything, but Brendan, you really are sick. I really really really would like to meet you in person cause I know no one could be as big an asshole in real life as you like to portray yourself on this list. Why do you do that? Why do you think you know everything? And why are you ALWAYS right? Why do your opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do you treat people like shit? Have you ever heard of kindness? How about constructive criticsm? I can't believe the letter you wrote to this guy (attached below). I didn't listen to his stuff, but even if it is most horrible trash I have ever heard, I or another other human with FEELINGS could write something like that. IF you have to be a dick and be mean or criticize, at least choose your words more carefully. OH, and I appreciate you throwing the MOBY insult into the bashing of this guy's music. I don't want to talk about Moby here (and I probably won't even post again for a while so don't look forward to a response from the one you are thinking of right now Brendan) but Moby became number 1 last week in England, and still climbing the charts in America. Anyway, even though this email is just one big waste of breath since you (brendan) are just going to write some moron response to it and keep being an asshole, I just felt that I should say something since I am one of the longer lasting members on the list. Anyway, later everyone. AJ Brendan wrote: No offense, but they sound like some bad MOD/S3Ms. You definately need to change your instrument set. The old MIDI sounds might work with the Moby crowd, but they don't work for anybody else. Also, spend more time with your riffs, instead of using tried and overused ones. Third, for god's sake, use some chords! Real music lives off them. I'm not trying to insult you or anything, but if you want to go out a produce some music that people will enjoy, you need to put a lot more effort into your music. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 09:14:08 -0400 AJ Brustein wrote: > Blah, blah, blah. Split your fucking paragraphs, dude! They are hard to read. > Anyway, the other real reason why I have not been posting anything here > is because of our friend Brenden. > ... > I wasn't going to say anything, but Brendan, you really are sick. Oh, gee...I guess I'm the scapegoat for all of your problems. > I really really really would like to meet you in person cause I know no > one could be as big an asshole in real life as you like to portray yourself > on this list. Why do you do that? Jesus fucking Christ! You mistake honesty and bluntness for assholeness. If you want me to be Mr. Happy-Smiley person, like some of the people on this list, I can do that, but that's not realistic. I'm honest about my feelings and I don't like skirting around the fucking issue. That's not being an asshole; that's saying what you mean. I only act like an asshole when other people act like an asshole...like right now. > Why do you think you know everything? And why are you ALWAYS right? Since when did everybody get this notion that I'm always right or that I think I'm always right? Sure, in a debate, I take one side of an issue, and I tend to stick with it, but that doesn't mean I think I know everything. Seriously, I'm really curious about this thing, because a lot of people have brought it up before. > Why do your opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do YOUR opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do YOU think you're more important than me? Why do YOU have this holier-than-thou attitude towards me? Answer these questions before you start pulling this shit on me. > Why do you treat people like shit? Have you ever heard of kindness? How > about constructive criticsm? What the fuck do you think that was?! > I can't believe the letter you wrote to this guy (attached below). I didn't > listen to his stuff, but even if it is most horrible trash I have ever > heard, I or another other human with FEELINGS could write something like > that. IF you have to be a dick and be mean or criticize, at least choose > your words more carefully. I could have just not told him anything. I could have not spend the time on a 56K modem to download the MP3s off of his site, listen to the music, analyze the problems, and written a reply. But, then he might be thinking that his music is the best thing since sliced bread. Now that I pointed out problems with his music, he has a chance to correct them, and maybe even land a record deal with his new music. I wrote that e-mail to help him, not comfort his ego. > OH, and I appreciate you throwing the MOBY insult into the > bashing of this guy's music. I don't want to talk about Moby here (and I > probably won't even post again for a while so don't look forward to a > response from the one you are thinking of right now Brendan) but Moby > became number 1 last week in England, and still climbing the charts in > America. Hmmm...isn't that the same chart that used to have...The Spice Girls?! :) Moby has the compositional talent of Fatboy Slim, except FBS has better material to work with. You don't know how tired I get of hearing that song on the radio: "Oh Lordy, troubles again...oh Lordy, troubles I've been...something something something troubles I've been through...etc." over and over and over again with a simple backdrop. It sounds like something he did in less than an hour and it's getting air time? I think I'm been fairly open-minded with this Moby shit. I've brought two of his CDs already. I don't do that with people/bands/groups I don't like. I've already given away my Orgy CD to my sister; Prodigy's Fat of the Land is in my reject pile (though I do like their older stuff); so is that fake Rammstein shit. I could understand somebody with a lot of talent that I don't like. I generally don't like rap, but I can respect some of the groups that have talent. I could also understand if this was liking somebody that you know wasn't very talented, but you like him/her anyway. FBS's shit is fairly simple to make, but he tends to pick the right riffs and chords that I like. But, some people praise Moby like he was the Second Coming. It's ok to like Moby, but don't claim he has talent spewing out of his veins. It's just not there. > Anyway, even though this email is just one big waste of breath > since you (brendan) are just going to write some moron response to it > and keep being an asshole, I just felt that I should say something since > I am one of the longer lasting members on the list. Anyway, later > everyone. Oh, so because you're one of the longer lasting members on the list, that give you the right to act like an asshole? Why does everybody think I'm not going to defend myself? You think I'm going to ignore an open attack to me? Look, I'm not evil incarnate and I'm not out to get you. I'm just more realistic and more true to my feelings than some people are used to. If you do something incredibly stupid, I'll tell you. If you flame me, I'll flame back. If you want my opinion on something, I'll tell you exactly how I feel. If you don't like it, blacklist me for all I care. I only wish more people were realistic. (PS.: I'm getting really goddamn tired of defending every little thing I say...) -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Perkins Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 08:48:52 -0600 then stop saying stuff... >(PS.: I'm getting really goddamn tired of defending every little thing I say...) Chris Perkins cdperk@trib.com ICQ #: 32689797 -People in small towns don't know what books are and they don't know what phones are. If you ask them about phonebooks, their heads will explode.- # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xolotl Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 10:06:09 -0500 (CDT) > >(PS.: I'm getting really goddamn tired of defending every little thing I > say...) why do you think you have to ? Do you think your arguments are weak and hold little weight in anyone's mind but your own ? Perhaps not much even there.... Did you ever stop and actually shut off your flame machine and think about why your responses are comming under attack constantly ? "Maybe you make errors, did you ever think about that ?" - William Gates # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 11:34:28 EDT "Blah, blah, blah. Split your fucking paragraphs, dude! They are hard to read." I have no trouble reading them. In fact, you're the only one complaining right now. "Jesus fucking Christ! You mistake honesty and bluntness for assholeness. If you want me to be Mr. Happy-Smiley person, like some of the people on this list, I can do that, but that's not realistic. I'm honest about my feelings and I don't like skirting around the fucking issue. That's not being an asshole; that's saying what you mean." Well, Brendan, how about common curtosy? Brendan, I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that you're probably an engineering or computer science-related guy. Am I right? You know why I know that? Because you're a fuck when it comes to dealing with people. You can't fuck with people like you do, or people WILL retaliate, despite the fact that YOU didn't like HIS instrument set and whatnot, you can't talk like that. Go ahead, try that some more, and see how far it gets you. You'll make some friends, but mostly enemies, and you will get burned sooner or later. Hey, I don't particularly like his music either, and I don't really like Moby all that much, but I'm not going to be so up front about it so much and basically say "it sucks." Brendan, he obviously put a lot of effort into it, otherwise he wouldn't have subscribed to the list and put up a site at mp3.com and gone through that much fuckin effort. Now, what have YOU done that you'd like to share? Can I tear that apart for you? Would you mind? Can I just rip you apart and tell you that you need to scale it all down and start over? "I only act like an asshole when other people act like an asshole...like right" Brendan, you don't act, you react. That's dangerous. "Seriously, I'm really curious about this thing, because a lot of people have brought it up before." Don't take this next comment to seriously, but if everyone here is in agreement that you think you're always right and you're pretty conceited and stuff, what conclusion can we draw? (I know you'll react by going to extremes, it's expected) AJ rocked: "Why do your opinions weigh more than everyone else's?" B-Money whimpered: "Why do YOUR opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do YOU think you're more important than me? Why do YOU have this holier-than-thou attitude towards me? Answer these questions before you start pulling this shit on me." Hey B-Money, check out this site: http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html It's about conversational terrorism, and i beleive they cover the way you shot back at AJ in the manner in which you did. You're not worth my time for me to actually look again, but I added it to my links and I remember it being in there. Fucking hypocrite. "Now that I pointed out problems with his music, he has a chance to correct them, and maybe even land a record deal with his new music. I wrote that e-mail to help him, not comfort his ego." Oh boy! I landed a record deal because Brendan Byrd pointed out my problems with my music! Because of him, I'm successful! God Brendan, what makes you the authority!? You sure did "help" him. You ripped him a new asshole is what you did. If I were him, I'd be like "thanks, but no thanks." "Hmmm...isn't that the same chart that used to have...The Spice Girls?! :)" What's wrong with the Spice Girls!? The same one with Orbital too, and your Chemical Brothers, and probably a lot else of what you listen to. "You don't know how tired I get of hearing that song on the radio: "Oh Lordy, troubles again...oh Lordy, troubles I've been...something something something troubles I've been through...etc." over and over and over again with a simple backdrop. It sounds like something he did in less than an hour and it's getting air time?" Do people still like it? Yes, otherwise it wouldn't be played. Hey dude, don't listen to the radio and expect to be awed. It's just not going to happen. The popular-music crowd listens to the radio, and if they like Moby, it stays. "...so is that fake Rammstein shit." Fake....? meaning what? They're not really German and their not really industrial? Hmm. I sorta like them actually. They're popular in Germany, right Deekay? Brendan, just don't react so much on what you read from other people. Choose your words more carefully and chill, alright? Cool. Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nub Subject: (orbital) important and on-topic! Date: 18 Apr 2000 09:39:39 -0600 (MDT) sorry, just trying to get your attention. brenden said: > Oh great...back to unintelligent smalltalk about Orbital... Next thing > you want us to do is some damned Orbital poll. I get enough polls on my ...and then he said: > I can do that, but that's not realistic. I'm honest about my feelings and I > don't like skirting around the fucking issue. That's not being an asshole; > that's saying what you mean. no brenden, you're pretty much always an asshole. someone who writes scathing remarks (like the above) with no provocation is an A-S-S-H-O-L-E. ...and: > I only act like an asshole when other people act like an asshole...like right > now. you're only saying he was an asshole cuz he has a beef with you. personally i agree with everything he said. (you go AJ!) anyway, on to happier things: > exchange them for something interesting if anyones interested. $10 seems > an awful lot for an import, I just picked up a Jeff Mills import for about where do you live? going rate for an import single in the US is about $10. i'm ecstatic if i can find one for $8. > "Mock Tudor" kicks ass ! Does anyone else feel that it should have > been on MON ?" yes. definitely my favorite thing by the hartnolls since... well, since somewhere out there pt. 2. i really hope they continue in this direction. to me it sounds like the future of electronic music. > I think someone mentioned that it's actually the only Orbital-song=20 > that's not 4/4 but rather a 7/8 (?) Waltz-Rhythm! 8) I think that's=20 > why it's so fascinating! ;-D 7/4 actually. not quite waltz. and yeah, it's cool. btw, my favorite wacky electronic time signatures are on plaid's restproof clockwork. check it out if that's your thing. check it out anyway cuz it's awesome. review: Boston Not London compilation (CFOM) CFOM is an IDM label in boston, and this is a compilation some of their stuff. (when it arrived in my mailbox there was a note attached from andrew schrock, who also happens to be entropy struct, who has two tracks featured. the point being, these are friendly people and their music is just as friendly...) the sound is a bit hard to describe - seems to have an electro feel, lots of distorted beats with gentle rolling melodies over the top. particular fave tracks are by a guy/girl named b-field. beautiful stuff, a bit like boards of canada if they decided to do a trance track. anyway, something you might check out if you're in boston (they sell them at newbury comics i think). or check out the webpage: www.cfom-music.com. the comp costs a mere 10 bucks including shipping, and they are very prompt. later all, nub # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Haviland Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 12:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Rob Schultz wrote: > Well, Brendan, how about common curtosy? Brendan, I'm going to take a shot > in the dark here and guess that you're probably an engineering or computer > science-related guy. Am I right? You know why I know that? Because you're a Easy there. I'm not going to say engineers are known for their tact or communications skills, but that might've been a little too broad, eh? If memory serves, Brenden has been flamed for making such generalizations in the past. -Scott Haviland jhavilan@engin.umich.edu ^^^^^ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Agust 'Nemesis1' Arni Jonsson" Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 17:53:44 +0000 another day, another brendan post. At 09:14 18.4.2000 -0400, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: >Blah, blah, blah. Split your fucking paragraphs, dude! They are hard to >read. no, they are not that hard to read. if they had all been in one long sentence without punctuation, then it would have been hard to read. >Jesus fucking Christ! You mistake honesty and bluntness for assholeness. there are other ways of being honest & blunt. like picking your words more carefully. if you would keep the tone of your posts more neutral, then people would most likely be less irritated by what you say. >If you want me to be Mr. Happy-Smiley person, like some of the people on >this list, >I can do that, but that's not realistic. I'm honest about my feelings and I >don't like skirting around the fucking issue. That's not being an asshole; >that's saying what you mean. and the result is that the way you word things, you annoy people and get them all defensive. there is a middle way. >I only act like an asshole when other people act like an asshole...like >right now. and what exactly is the point? > > Why do you think you know everything? And why are you ALWAYS right? >Since when did everybody get this notion that I'm always right or that I think >I'm always right? Sure, in a debate, I take one side of an issue, and I >tend to >stick with it, but that doesn't mean I think I know everything. > >Seriously, I'm really curious about this thing, because a lot of people have >brought it up before. maybe it has something to do with your sweeping broad generalized comments which often seem to imply that more than you have a certain particular opinion, while you are stating _your own_ opinion. again, a matter of semantics. > > Why do your opinions weigh more than everyone else's? > >Why do YOUR opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do YOU think you're >more important than me? Why do YOU have this holier-than-thou attitude >towards >me? Answer these questions before you start pulling this shit on me. he was only asking a simple question. to be more precise, he was asking you. as for the why, well, it's quite obvious to most people here. you just made an excellent statement in reply to his simple question, which actually answers his question. > > Why do you treat people like shit? Have you ever heard of kindness? How > > about constructive criticsm? > >What the fuck do you think that was?! one mans (yours) overstated opinion. if you want to make _constructive_ criticism, be precise, point out the flaws, point out what's right, what's good, and what could be done better. keep it simple & neutral. for example, the word 'fuck' is not. >I could have just not told him anything. I could have not spend the time on a >56K modem to download the MP3s off of his site, listen to the music, >analyze the >problems, and written a reply. But, then he might be thinking that his >music is >the best thing since sliced bread. well, nobody really forced you to download it, so it was entirely your decision. and needless to say, that involves a certain level of 'risk' on your end. if you can't handle it, then don't waste your time. >Now that I pointed out problems with his music, he has a chance to correct >them, >and maybe even land a record deal with his new music. I wrote that e-mail to >help him, not comfort his ego. *ahem* no comment :) >I think I'm been fairly open-minded with this Moby shit. I've brought two of >his CDs already. I don't do that with people/bands/groups I don't like. erm.... oh never mind :) >It's ok to like Moby, but don't claim he has talent spewing out of his >veins. >It's just not there. if he didn't have any, then why did he get as far as he has gone today? sure marketing gets you a long way, but if you don't have a single ounce of talent or something, then you most likely wouldn't get there in the first place. and besides, this is just your own opinion, and not everybodies opinion... > > Anyway, even though this email is just one big waste of breath > > since you (brendan) are just going to write some moron response to it > > and keep being an asshole [cut] > >Oh, so because you're one of the longer lasting members on the list, that give >you the right to act like an asshole? Why does everybody think I'm not >going to >defend myself? You think I'm going to ignore an open attack to me? heh, you fell for it, plain and simple :) maybe if you didn't always spew out our overstated opinion each time someone opens his mouth, then maybe people would stop attacking you? >Look, I'm not evil incarnate and I'm not out to get you. I'm just more >realistic and more true to my feelings than some people are used to. and again, that's _your_ opinion. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong. >If you do something incredibly stupid, I'll tell you. next time, try being polite and neutral when you do it, and see if it generates a more positive reaction. > If you flame me, I'll flame back. eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. it's a vicious circle. break out of it. if you don't belive me, then just look at all the wars out there. people are dying & getting killed for stupid things like ideals & religion. >If you want my opinion on something, I'll tell you exactly how I feel. >If you don't like it, blacklist me for all I care. yay >I only wish more people were realistic. I only wish people were more polite and modest. >(PS.: I'm getting really goddamn tired of defending every little thing I >say...) usually that's a hint that you're doing something wrong somewhere. pulled badly out of any context: At 09:14 18.4.2000 -0400, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: >fucking paragraphs >Jesus fucking Christ! >assholeness. >being an asshole >act like an asshole >act like an asshole >pulling this shit >What the fuck >fake shit >FBS's shit >act like an asshole? kudos to your vocabulary, it fucking rocks. :) opinions are like arseholes. everybody has one. Agust "Nemesis1" - aaj@centrum.is - ICQ: 1290264 - http://nemesis1.cjb.net w00p! :P # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 14:27:38 -0400 Robert Schultz wrote: > > I have no trouble reading them. In fact, you're the only one complaining > right now. Lemme see...way back a long time ago, somebody invented paragraphs, and I don't think it got invented because he felt like it. > Well, Brendan, how about common curtosy? Brendan, I'm going to take a shot > in the dark here and guess that you're probably an engineering or computer > science-related guy. Am I right? You know why I know that? Because you're a > fuck when it comes to dealing with people. Ya know, I'm sure you just pissed off half of the people here. I tend to use generalizations, but nothing that broad. > You can't fuck with people like you do, or people WILL retaliate, despite > the fact that YOU didn't like HIS instrument set and whatnot, you can't talk > like that. Go ahead, try that some more, and see how far it gets you. You'll > make some friends, but mostly enemies, and you will get burned sooner or > later. Hey, I don't particularly like his music either, and I don't really > like Moby all that much, but I'm not going to be so up front about it so > much and basically say "it sucks." I didn't say "it sucks". I told him what was wrong with it, and I tried not to sound insulting about it. There's a big difference. I noticed that you listened to his music and didn't say anything about it. Nice, Rob! I'm sure he appreciated that. > Brendan, he obviously put a lot of effort into it, otherwise he wouldn't > have subscribed to the list and put up a site at mp3.com and gone through > that much fuckin effort. Now, what have YOU done that you'd like to share? > Can I tear that apart for you? Would you mind? Can I just rip you apart and > tell you that you need to scale it all down and start over? Be my guest. I write the best damn message board script, and I'd love for you to point out its faults: http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/software/rpgboard/ > Brendan, you don't act, you react. That's dangerous. I act and react. That's life. > Hey B-Money, check out this site: http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html > > It's about conversational terrorism, and i beleive they cover the way you > shot back at AJ in the manner in which you did. You're not worth my time for > me to actually look again, but I added it to my links and I remember it > being in there. Fucking hypocrite. I tend only to point out things from that page rarely and only when they are rather extreme, because I could (and have before) use that to totally rip apart somebody's conversation, but that doesn't really solve anything except boosting your own ego. > Oh boy! I landed a record deal because Brendan Byrd pointed out my problems > with my music! Because of him, I'm successful! God Brendan, what makes you > the authority!? You sure did "help" him. You ripped him a new asshole is > what you did. If I were him, I'd be like "thanks, but no thanks." There was a lot to fix. If you want to get up to, say, Orbital's level, you have to work hard and keep tweaking the same song over and over again. I know it ain't easy, but nobody said making music is supposed to be easy. > What's wrong with the Spice Girls!? The same one with Orbital too, and your > Chemical Brothers, and probably a lot else of what you listen to. Yeah, but using charts to prove that somebody is talented just doesn't work, and the good bands are rarely number one on those things. > Do people still like it? Yes, otherwise it wouldn't be played. Hey dude, > don't listen to the radio and expect to be awed. It's just not going to > happen. The popular-music crowd listens to the radio, and if they like Moby, > it stays. I think you just proved my point. > Fake....? meaning what? They're not really German and their not really > industrial? Hmm. I sorta like them actually. They're popular in Germany, > right Deekay? Man, there's MUCH better industrial out there. Go grab some White Zombie or Samael. Stabbing Westward is up there too, though I don't consider it full-blown industrial. I mean fake in the sense that they use some old, boring metal riffs on top of some old, boring techno riffs. > Brendan, just don't react so much on what you read from other people. Choose > your words more carefully and chill, alright? Cool. Fine. The same to you, my inflammatory and broad generalizing brother. (Pot, kettle, black...so that nobody else says it.) Somewhere a long the way I calmed down on this pointless argument. I think it was when I was reading this from Agust: > >Now that I pointed out problems with his music, he has a chance to correct > >them,and maybe even land a record deal with his new music. I wrote that > >e-mail to help him, not comfort his ego. > *ahem* no comment > :) Ok, that was kinda funny actually. I didn't notice that until now. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Rader Subject: (orbital) OT: Moby... Date: 18 Apr 2000 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT) > But, some people praise Moby like he was the Second Coming. It's ok > to like Moby, but don't claim he has talent spewing out of his > veins. It's just not there. Moby has great talent and I have been a fan of his since 93. He can play many musical instruments.. he has touched upon so many different genre's of music. This requires much more talent and dedicataion than I can ever imagine having. Shaun __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: (orbital) Hey, I know. Date: 18 Apr 2000 14:40:55 EDT Hellooooo, Well, I'd just like to assure you all that in no way did I mean to negatively insinuate that engineers have no social skills. I mean, hell, my own dad's an electrical engineer, and a successful one at that. I work at a fiberoptics company, and I'm surrounded by them everyday. Also, my room mate's a computer science major, and we get along fine. Finally, most of my friends are electrical engineers (most listen to electronic by the way, what a coincidence, huh?). You see, I just think engineers in general have different minds than other people. Us business majors seem to put up with a lot more shit, and we are a little more patient when it comes to stuff. Engineers, I think, think more precisely, and they don't beat around the bush about stuff, they just say whatever is on their minds, despite the possible implications and who they might piss off. A famous engineer once said, "I like machines better than people. You can't control people." I'm going to stick by what I said before, but I figured I'd explain what I meant, before I get flamed to shit. :-) Regards, Rob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... Date: 18 Apr 2000 14:47:05 -0400 Shaun Rader wrote: > > Moby has great talent and I have been a fan of his since 93. He can > play many musical instruments.. he has touched upon so many different > genre's of music. This requires much more talent and dedicataion than > I can ever imagine having. Fine, he can play a bunch of instruments, which requires a lot of talent, but it has nothing to do with composition. And touching on different genres of music isn't "talented" either. Sure, talented bands like The Cure have touched on a bunch of different genres, but the talent doesn't directly link to that fact. If they stuck with one period, they would still be talented. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) Bonus-cents for Brendan.. Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:01:01 +0000 I tried to stay quiet, but there's this i just have to quote: > I only act like an asshole when other people act like an > asshole...like right now. Childish > Why do YOUR opinions weigh more than everyone else's? Why do YOU > think you're more important than me? Why do YOU have this > holier-than-thou attitude towards me? Answer these questions before > you start pulling this shit on me." Childish > ..if they flame me, i flame them back! Childish Brendan, i know you're someone that enjoys an argument, and=20 there's nothing wrong with that.. But you should *DEFINATELY* pay=20 more attention to your tone! Plus, like seen above, the quality of=20 your reasoning is that of a 5-year old when you feel pushed in the=20 corner.. That's pretty weak if you ask me! I hope with so many people reacting you finally caught a clue! <:-) Stop acting like a prick, please!.. <:-) Rob wrote: > "...so is that fake Rammstein shit." >=20 > Fake....? meaning what? They're not really German and their not=20 > really industrial? Hmm. I sorta like them actually. They're popular=20 > in Germany, right Deekay? Yeah, they are... not extremely but they're known.. and if it's only=20 for their nazi-like texts and appearance! >:-) I personally don't like them very much, my friend is into darkwave=20 and he said that they used to be known in the darkwave-scene as a=20 lame east-german band before they became pop-music with "Engel"! >:-) I think it's pretty lame to name your band after a city that=20 everybody associates with a plane-crash tragedy where hundreds of=20 people died! Plus the name "Rammstein" has a very rightwing touch to=20 it, kinda like Nazi/Skinhead bands like "St=F6rkraft"... DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: (orbital) 2 cents for Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:01:02 +0000 It's a long way from honesty to alienation! Check your EQ! ;-D DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... and Beached Date: 18 Apr 2000 12:06:58 -0700 (PDT) --- Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > > Fine, he can play a bunch of instruments, which requires a lot of > talent, but it has nothing to do with composition. And touching on > different genres of music isn't "talented" either. Sure, talented > bands like The Cure have touched on a bunch of different genres, but > the talent doesn't directly link to that fact. If they stuck with one > period, they would still be talented. I don't claim that you have to jump genre's to be talented.. but I do think being able to do so shows talent. If I could play electronic music and punk rock I'd feel pretty talented. He does a lot more than just those two but I'm talking about myself here. I am glad he is getting the recognition he deserves. I agree that chart success is not necessarily related to talent but it's nice to see an artist like Moby make it. I would be equally as happy if Orbital started climbing the charts. Changing topics: How come Beached never made it? When I heard it I thought it would be a popular radio hit. I think it could have been played on several different stations (the pop stations that play N-Sync.. as well as the 'hip' adult contemporary stations that mix Santana and Fatboy Slim in their playlist). The classical music type feel combined with Leonardo and a top notch beat deserves some crossover airtime. Shaun __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 18 Apr 2000 21:08:37 +0000 > > But, some people praise Moby like he was the Second Coming. It's ok > > to like Moby, but don't claim he has talent spewing out of his > > veins. It's just not there. > > Moby has great talent and I have been a fan of his since 93. He can > play many musical instruments.. he has touched upon so many different > genre's of music. This requires much more talent and dedicataion than > I can ever imagine having. > > Shaun > Oh no!!! It's the Moby argument again!!!!! <:-) HELP!! Somebody call the Deja Vu-police!! 8) Though i GOTTA agree that both the current song and the "why does my heart" one are basically endless repetitions of an admittedly catchy loop!.. But that's the whole song!!! Nothing else!.. He might have talent like shit, but it sure as hell doesn't show in these songs! DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick McGinn" Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:17:11 -0400 > "Blah, blah, blah. Split your fucking paragraphs, dude! They are hard to > read." I agree. Also, use a spell-checker or a dictionary (it's courtesy, not curtosy.) Not doing so basically sends the message that "I'm not going to take the time to get my thoughts across in a way that's elegant and easily accesible." Why should I bother to read them then? I'm certainly not saying I'm perfect, but if the purpose of your e-mail is to point out someone else's faults (e.g. AJ's comments about Brendan on the ShoestringCowboy thread), then you should at least be clear and exact about what you're critscizing. > enemies, and you will get burned sooner or later. Hey, I don't particularly > like his music either, and I don't really like Moby all that much, but I'm > not going to be so up front about it so much and basically say "it sucks." > Brendan, he obviously put a lot of effort into it, otherwise he wouldn't > have subscribed to the list and put up a site at mp3.com and gone through > that much fuckin effort. Now, what have YOU done that you'd like to share? > Can I tear that apart for you? Would you mind? Can I just rip you apart and > tell you that you need to scale it all down and start over? That's not a valid point. Critics don't have to be artists in whatever field they observe. I would guess that the majority of critics, in fact, have little to no experience in creating whatever it is they talk about. Mike asked for comments about his music, and Brendan obliged him. I don't think anything he said was particularly harsh, but the comment about Moby was unprofessional and cheapened the rest of what he was trying to say. The only thing he did wrong was send a private e-mail to a public list. > Don't take this next comment to seriously, but if everyone here is in > agreement that you think you're always right and you're pretty conceited and > stuff, what conclusion can we draw? (I know you'll react by going to > extremes, it's expected) Brendan seems to attract a lot of flak because he's aggressive in making his point, and his point usually isn't a generally accepted one. Like he said, he could be Mr. Smiley Face if he wanted and aggree with everyone (well, pretty much just Rob and DK), but he doesn't. He states his opinions and then he fights to clarify his meaning when others attack him. He always seems to be on the defensive... You guys put him there. > http://www.vandruff.com/art_converse.html Thanks for the link. I agree with most of the things listed on that page, but not everyone does. If he doesn't, that doesn't mean he's mean--he just has different opinions about what's acceptable. > It's about conversational terrorism, and i beleive they cover the way you > shot back at AJ in the manner in which you did. You're not worth my time for > me to actually look again, but I added it to my links and I remember it > being in there. Fucking hypocrite. That was nice. What does the guide to "Conversational Terrorism" say about vulgar name-calling? > "Hmmm...isn't that the same chart that used to have...The Spice Girls?! :)" > > What's wrong with the Spice Girls!? The same one with Orbital too, and your > Chemical Brothers, and probably a lot else of what you listen to. I think [hope] he was trying to point out that commercial success is certainly not a good indicator of artistic merit. > Brendan, just don't react so much on what you read from other people. Choose > your words more carefully and chill, alright? Cool. "Chill?" Didn't you just call him a "fucking hypocrite" two paragraphs ago? Xaos 80 97 116 114 105 99 107 32 77 99 71 105 110 110 PS - I promise to never get involved in another MP3 debate :) Every time I do I make an ass out of myself and people get angry with eachother. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... and Beached Date: 18 Apr 2000 15:19:45 -0400 Shaun Rader wrote: > > Changing topics: How come Beached never made it? When I heard it I > thought it would be a popular radio hit. I think it could have been > played on several different stations (the pop stations that play > N-Sync.. as well as the 'hip' adult contemporary stations that mix > Santana and Fatboy Slim in their playlist). The classical music type > feel combined with Leonardo and a top notch beat deserves some > crossover airtime. Yeah well, they pick FBS's lamest tune: Praise You. Can't they find something better like Kalifornia or Right Here, Right Now? -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 18 Apr 2000 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) --- deekay@mail.dfu.de wrote: > Though i GOTTA agree that both the current song and the "why does my > heart" one are basically endless repetitions of an admittedly catchy > loop!.. But that's the whole song!!! Nothing else!.. He might have > talent like shit, but it sure as hell doesn't show in these songs! I think if you listen to "Why Does My Heart Feel So Bad" closely you will see there is a lot going on. Notice when the female voice loops and overlaps itself with the strings and piano going.. it's very beautiful. I agree "Natural Blues" is a bit more simplistic but it's a good song nonetheless. Shaun __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AJ Brustein Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 18 Apr 2000 18:12:01 -0400 To Brendan: Ok, about my paragraphs. I am not a big reader, but I just guess you read even less Brendan. Check out Dickens sometime. I wanna hear you bitch about his sentances asnd paragraphs. By the way, my "long ass paragraphs" have been published quite a few times, so not everyone has a problem with them. Next, saying "This isn't an insult, but your music sucks" (paraphrase) doesn't stop it from being an insult. Everyone else already got to your email before I did so there is no use in repeating it. They did a fine job of getting the point across, or just stating the obvious: obvious to everyone but you. To Xaos (who wrote): I agree. Also, use a spell-checker or a dictionary (it's courtesy, not curtosy.) Not doing so basically sends the message that "I'm not going to take the time to get my thoughts across in a way that's elegant and easily accesible." Why should I bother to read them then? I'm certainly not saying I'm perfect, but if the purpose of your e-mail is to point out someone else's faults (e.g. AJ's comments about Brendan on the ShoestringCowboy thread), then you should at least be clear and exact about what you're critscizing. Dude, if I was criticizing his spelling or grammer, I would have to use a spell-checker and a thesaurus, but I wasn't and I could care less about it, so who cares as long as you can understand. And, last time I checked, it is "criticizing." You lose all credibility when your argument is spelling and you can't spell right. ("if the purpose of your e-mail is to point out someone else's faults..."). To everyone regarding Moby: There is no point talking about him here because it is only opinions and no one's is going to change. Just one piece of news though, to anyone who thinks Moby has no talent, especially his two newer songs (Which I don't particullarly like, but his next single I love "porcelian"), Elton John loved Moby's work so much, he is remixing Moby! Cool huh. Elton John, even if you are not a fan (like me), holds some power in the music industry and has been called talented a few times. Anyway, enough Moby. Lastly, today was the first time I actually read all my mail from this list. It is amazing what getting involved in the conversation can do. But, I would have to agree with some people, that I would rather get no mail than junk mail. Anyway, Later. AJ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) News flash: Date: 18 Apr 2000 18:34:17 -0400 Anchorman Jim: And now to our correspondant, live at the scene. Live correspondant Tim: Well, it seems that we're seeing a full blunt of = the dreaded mailing list war, Jim.=A0 We're undoubtedly about to see the = aftershock effect when e-mails complaining about traffic appear, but I = don't think the fighting is over yet.=A0 =A0=A0 This is really sad, let me tell you.=A0 I never like seeing this f= ront, = and I'm afraid that even a veteran list such as this one hasn't seen = such vicious battles yet. Jim: Now this particular stage is fueled by several different causes, rig= ht? Tim: That's right folks, apparently quite a few nations took offense = when a large power held a surprise invader on a quiter nation looking = for support.=A0 I just don't see this ending without myriad losses, and I= = can't envision an acceptable agreement emerging at this stage. Anchorperson Laura: Sources say there are rumours of foul play, even = conspirating against questionable policies-=A0 have these been confirmed = today? Tim: Well, that's harder to say.=A0 This is a many-sided battle, and I = don't think it's fair to hold anyone fully responsible.=A0 Everyone has = lost face, that's for sure, and it's susceptible that many of the powers = not currently involved may be extremely displeased. Jim: What sort of solutions do you see possible now? Tim: I'm afraid there are going to be troops lost unwillingly, in some = areas more than others.=A0 In other words, no one is going to like the = end, especially those who are outnumbered.=A0 The answer certainly does = not seem to entail hostility at every turn, as tradition has it. Laura:=A0 I agree.=A0 Critics have promoted different sides, and, unless = something radical happens, a total agreement will never, ever be reached.= Jim: I think we've learned that already.=A0 The most popular advice then = is to reduce the amount of battles, and certainly keep ferocity to a = minimum. Tim: That can be troublesome, for sure.=A0 Truth and malevolence too ofte= n = go hand in hand, and I fear there may be permanent, irreversible damage = done.=A0 Jim: Let's hope not, and please people, this war isn't accomplishing, = let's quit while we can still stand most of each other. -Marc "Switzerland" Sawaya PS- In case my points weren't clear, I'm trying to say that we're not = accomplishing a thing, and that we are all going to have to be humble = and accept losses to end it, because there's no good solution. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan LeBoeuf Subject: (orbital) Orbital FTP Date: 18 Apr 2000 11:37:08 -0500 Hey, Can someone give me the info on Mark's server... I lost my domain name in the subscribed address and can't communicate with the list. If someone could just reply personally... Thanks, Dan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Dunn" Subject: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy11 Date: 18 Apr 2000 20:03:54 MDT Hey people, I do not take personal offense to criticism of my music. Some people hate it, some people like it. However, I apreciate honesty in criticism and it is usually helpful. Thanks, Mike Dunn www.mp3.com/ShoestringCowboy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy11 Date: 18 Apr 2000 22:52:04 -0400 Mike Dunn wrote: > > Hey people, > I do not take personal offense to criticism of my music. Some people hate > it, some people like it. However, I apreciate honesty in criticism and it is > usually helpful. Well, that ends that. I hope we all learned something from this mess, but it's doubtful. Now can we shut up about me and talk about music?! -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) shoot the dandy highwayman ! Date: 17 Apr 2000 06:19:23 +0000 DeeKay: >>>It's just that with all the current Business and eCommerce-Hype >>>i see the free internet going down pretty soon if we don't act! >>>Like NOT buying online if it's not absolutely necessary! If they >>>don't sell over the net, they'll soon lose interest! >> >> Trouble is that the money from E-Commerce is what funds much of the >> infrastructure and the free phone calls ! > >I used to think that, too, but i just recently read that it's not the >case! In fact it's the OTHER way around, they use the existing >infrastructure and clog up the lines with their stuff! >There are no records that i know of that some commercial >Internet-company ever contributed to the net's infrastructure! Do you know the story of the three blind men touching up an elephant ? One goes 'ooh it's wrinkly!' the other goes 'it's hard and spikey!' and the other goes 'fuck! fuck! it's chewing up my arm!! why don't you lot help me ?!'. Something along those lines anyway ! I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's all how you look at it I suppose, but at the same time getting your arm chewed off isn't the best thing that can happen to a person especially yourself. The fact that we sit there in great spiritual pain because that Def Leppard single is taking longer than we expected to download, and that mp3.com or whoever is getting pain from technological titty rash has a kind of chain of cause and effect. Cisco systems and the rest of them get the potential for new and better business and increased profits, if people want it enough. You are right though, you can look it your way..the effect is the cause and the cause is the effect. And your sentiments I agree with, the net is an ocean of information a thousand miles across and 1cm deep and mostly it's crap thats been put there by people who just want to fill their pockets and don't care what we think. Sounds familiar too doesn't it. <:-/ Not everything though, thankfully. >Also realize that if the bank does not agree with your business plan, they >simply won't loan you money in the first place. If the label does not >think the band will make money, they won't give them a deal. So in a small >way, they do have a say in how one conducts his business, IF he wants to >get that loan/signing. This is the pivot of the matter right here. Some things in society happen simply because we care about them, supposedly - like education. So, to make a comparison: "we won't give this child education because we feel they may be stupid because we can't make a comparison with something that has been successful previously." What kind of a small minded way is this to carry on ? Is this intelligent - is this good for us - is this right at all ? I'm not against capitalism providing it capatalises on things that are good for us, capatalising on things just because we "can" is to give a helping hand to as much that is 'evil' (for want of a better word) as it is to that which is good. That good happens at all is all down to the ethics of the individual which seem to be given less and less encouragement, and are taken for granted to the point where more and more people are just looking after themselves only and disappearing into their own world. We have a difference here between people who believe that music and art is very important in it's own right (and I am one of them) and people who believe it is just a commodity which is there simply to support other more important things like the economy and peoples living expenses. Yes, people being able to feed their kids is important too ! The irony of it is to me at least - is that it would do this anyway regardless of if it is seen to be a commodity or not and this way of looking at it is just getting in the way and fucking things up. It's like taking a magnifying glass to the tallest bits of grass that are easyest to see to everybody until that bit of grass burns up and dies and then moving on to the next one. No wonder people either 1) don't want to be involved or 2) use it to take the piss and make as much money as possible. After all they are just following the *music industrys fine example*. And since they are the one in charge of the box of spare change why shouldn't they be the ones to do that ? But then again I don't work in the industry so perhaps I'm naive ! (I really hope so) It's not a personal attack, be stupid of me to do that on just one little bit of your post completely out of context, I hope you can see what I'm on about. > >"Hehehe!!! I covered you opera records in bubble gum !!" > >"I know !" Nuff respect Ren & Stimpy, big-up-the-chest ! Cheers, -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might begin to reach you, why we give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick McGinn" Subject: Re: (orbital) ShoestringCowboy Date: 17 Apr 2000 15:05:42 -0400 > Hey, > If anyone has been to my site yet, I would appreciate it if you sent an > e-mail back telling me what you thought. > Thanks, > Mike Dunn > www.mp3.com/ShoestringCowboy In case anyone else hates cookies and being forced to download through your browser instead of a download manager, use these three links instead: http://downloads1.mp3.com/mp3s/8/shoestring_cowboy/bombs.mp3 http://downloads1.mp3.com/mp3s/8/shoestring_cowboy/blast.mp3 http://downloads1.mp3.com/mp3s/8/shoestring_cowboy/flippin_like_mebus.mp3 You're welcome :) And downloads1 can be changed to any number up through downloads12 if you're getting a bad connection. Xaos 80 97 116 114 105 99 107 32 77 99 71 105 110 110 PS - I am not Mike Dunn. Send any comments about the music to him, not me. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Park" Subject: (orbital) Leeds 96 Upload Date: 17 Apr 2000 23:33:37 -0400 To whom-ever uploaded the Leeds 96 Live stuff - Its wonderful, one of thier bet concerts I feel - I was a bit dissapointed that the wjole show wasn't there. I would like to purchace acopy or work out arrangements to get the rest of it. Thanks, Chris Park # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) us wacky guys with our designer garments Date: 19 Apr 2000 02:08:44 +0000 >MoN doesn't lack "emotion"; it's just something in a different sense. For >example, I'm listening to "I Don't Know You People", and it has more of a >menacing mood to it. Way Out's mood is in the same vein as GSH, though with a >faster beat. (As such, it's my second favorite Orbital track.) Spare Part >Express's mood is "wacky" and somewhat whimsical. I find it doesn't help me if I start making direct comparisons between tracks in that way. I know you think Orbital are great too - but the way you are putting it here you can almost forget the trumpet in Way Out altogether ! I'm reacting here because I saw the words 'wacky' and 'whimsical' and thought this can't be right ! It's my favourite track on the album there must be more to life ! So, I thought I'd try and pull apart what your saying in a really cruel way and put everything you ever said in completely the wrong context. I needed help so I grabbed the dictionary... Adjective: whimsical 1.) Determined by chance or impulse or whim rather than by necessity or reason ( just like the music industry.....*cough**splutter**cough**oooh-my-itchy-beard-watch-me-rub-my-chinny-chin-chin-50p-per-minute-after-6pm-please-have-your-credit-card-number-handy-at-all-times-rant-rant-complain-complain-nobody-wants-to-listen-well-ok-I'll-shut-up-now ) Adjective: ....wacky ! (as in "wacky daytime radio DJ") 1.) (informal terms) "gave me a cockamamie reason for not going" (whats a cockamamie?) or... 2.) Informal or slang terms for mentally irregular So what your saying is it's mentally irregular because it's determined by chance or impulse rather than by necessity or reason ! Not a very nice thing to say. Whatever you do don't say it if you find yourself getting a blow job you'll be walking like John Wayne for months. I've got no right to judge what music you like or what you don't as being 'wrong', but don't be suprised if people get bothered by what you say sometimes ! It's not a personal attack I'm just questioning the language you are using - otherwise I would have just said "fuck off" for using bad language, and I know you love that. forever whimsical, -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might not begin to reach you, why we don't give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) us wacky guys with our designer garments Date: 19 Apr 2000 04:17:22 +0000 Mark S-D wrote: > > So what your saying is it's mentally irregular because it's determined by > chance or impulse rather than by necessity or reason ! Not a very nice > thing to say. Whatever you do don't say it if you find yourself getting a > blow job you'll be walking like John Wayne for months. > > I've got no right to judge what music you like or what you don't as being > 'wrong', but don't be suprised if people get bothered by what you say > sometimes ! It's not a personal attack I'm just questioning the language > you are using - otherwise I would have just said "fuck off" for using bad > language, and I know you love that. Damn man! Don't take the words literally. I just said that because of the up/down slider stuff in the song. And yeah, I love the french horn in Way Out. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) what ? no egg ? Date: 19 Apr 2000 04:20:01 +0000 >MoN doesn't lack "emotion"; it's just something in a different sense. For >example, I'm listening to "I Don't Know You People", and it has more of a >menacing mood to it. Way Out's mood is in the same vein as GSH, though with a >faster beat. (As such, it's my second favorite Orbital track.) Spare Part >Express's mood is "wacky" and somewhat whimsical. I find it doesn't help me if I start making direct comparisons between tracks in that way. I know you think Orbital are great too - but the way you are putting it here you can almost forget the trumpet in Way Out altogether ! I'm reacting here because I saw the words 'wacky' and 'whimsical' and thought this can't be right ! It's my favourite track on the album there must be more to life ! So, I thought I'd try and pull apart what your saying in a really cruel way and put everything you ever said in completely the wrong context. I needed help so I grabbed the dictionary... Adjective: whimsical 1.) Determined by chance or impulse or whim rather than by necessity or reason ( just like the music industry.....*cough**splutter**cough**oooh-my-itchy-beard-watch-me-rub-my-chinny-chin-chin-50p-per-minute-after-6pm-please-have-your-credit-card-number-handy-at-all-times-rant-rant-complain-complain-nobody-wants-to-listen-well-ok-I'll-shut-up-now ) Adjective: ....wacky ! (as in "wacky daytime radio DJ") 1.) (informal terms) "gave me a cockamamie reason for not going" (whats a cockamamie?) or... 2.) Informal or slang terms for mentally irregular So what your saying is it's mentally irregular because it's determined by chance or impulse rather than by necessity or reason ! Not a very nice thing to say. Whatever you do don't say it if you find yourself getting a blow job you'll be walking like John Wayne for months. I've got no right to judge what music you like or what you don't as being 'wrong', but don't be suprised if people get bothered by what you say sometimes ! It's not a personal attack I'm just questioning the language you are using - otherwise I would have just said "fuck off" for using bad language, and I know you love that. *Sorry if this post appears twice as I sent the last one to the wrong address (not paying attention), may be just as well as it was about mp3's - again. I noticed you said something here regarding Moby too: >There was a lot to fix. If you want to get up to, say, Orbital's level, you >have to work hard and keep tweaking the same song over and over again. I know >it ain't easy, but nobody said making music is supposed to be easy. Do you mean to derogate or is it just me reading into what you say wrongly ? I could look at this and say what you mean is that everything Orbital have ever done is tweak Chime. Which is kind of funny really because thats one massive tweak. We are not worthy of such a tweak ! But no, I know it's not that - this another comparison and what good is it going to do ? If Moby wanted to be Orbital we could break this down further and send him an e-mail and he could politely tell us to bugger off or something, or we could write to the jolly green giant and tell him his minty peas just don't taste like chips and he really should get his act together. But, metaphorically speaking we have the peas and chips and if you don't like peas then spit them out but don't try and say it's the fault of the pea for tasting like a pea. Thats what a pea is, deal with it ! (it's not so hard - go on, give in to the peas give in ! you know you want the peas, you do !) Cheers, -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might not begin to reach you, why we don't give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ilych@aol.com Subject: (orbital) Um... Date: 19 Apr 2000 00:42:47 EDT Hello, Orbital fans. I don't mean to clog up the digest with more crap, but I haven't read the digest frequently as of late. Now, when I do, all I see is people pissing and moaning at each other about crap not even related to the topic we signed up for in the first place (unless the whole Orbital/techno-music theme of this mailing list has been made optional and no one alerted me.) Come on, you guys. Work out your aggressions and attitudes somewhere else. (In the privacy of your own email addresses, for instance.) Thanks in advance, Bruno # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) ok, you win, lets talk about Orbital then Date: 19 Apr 2000 06:57:07 +0000 Mark Sawa wrote: > Ok, what do you people think of the idea, and write ideas for which song > we should talk about next, too. DeeKay wrote: >I like the idea! 8) > My suggestion for the next one would be Semi Detached! 8) > Highly underrated, the song that got me into Orbital in the first=20 > place and which i finally dug up on the net after unsuccessfully=20 > scanning all the stores around in a time LONG before mainstream-mp3s=20 > and searchengines! 8) Yeah, i got the Diversions-Original these days,=20 > thanks! ;-D :-) I love this record too, it would be one of my desert island discs because I think it's absolutely timeless ! Not to put a downer on things but let me just tell you about the spaces between the notes: " " Hard to describe isn't it ? But yet it's still there. I understand peoples frustration when there are no Orbital related posts but to be honest this is one record I wouldn't want to wrap up in words. Anyones welcome to try though, I'll try not to laugh I promise. We could have a long debate about existentialism, and what 'it' 'is' exactly. And if you don't know what it is don't worry you're probably right anyway. And if you don't understand even that then you must be even better off. Having said that though there are a lot of Orbital records that have resonances with things that we can all talk about, at least I think so. I mean all the music-industry and mp3 related stuff all ties in indirectly with Philosophy by numbers - but perhaps it's right that we should shut up about that if the conversations going nowhere. I don't want to sit here swearing at everybody anyway - the letter F is getting worn out on my keyboard these days. How about Style ? Is it just a musical joke or is there more to it....I was sitting in my bath and I saw my shampoo. "Style with confidence" it said. At first I thought must be some remix I'd not heard of. But if Style isn't to be taken seriously then the words "Stupidity with confidence" would do just as well. But - would it sell shampoo ? Would it sell shampoo to Rolf Harris ? Would Rolf Harris care if it did ? And anyway what am I doing sitting in the bath thinking of Rolf Harris ? Then I realised I was being self indulgent (a bit like this paragraph) and gave up thinking about it. But what does it all mean ? Please please tell me theres a point ! I jumped out the bath and put on the stereo and listened to Style again, this time with a notebook and pen...looking for clues. Nothing much happened, but I had drawn a Rolf-a-roo and a whole bunch of wiggly lines all over the place - now I was getting somewhere. The kangaroo shampoo connection, this is what I'd been waiting my whole life for - I'm sure of it - I just don't know why yet. Thats about as far as I got. Phew, glad that ones out the way then. Next up: Times Fly Thanks ! -- -- Mark S-D 'And it might not begin to reach you, why we don't give a damn...' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) what ? no egg ? Date: 19 Apr 2000 07:13:35 +0000 Mark S-D wrote: > > Do you mean to derogate or is it just me reading into what you say wrongly > ? I could look at this and say what you mean is that everything Orbital > have ever done is tweak Chime. Which is kind of funny really because thats > one massive tweak. We are not worthy of such a tweak ! But no, I know it's > not that - this another comparison and what good is it going to do ? If > Moby wanted to be Orbital we could break this down further and send him an > e-mail and he could politely tell us to bugger off or something, or we > could write to the jolly green giant and tell him his minty peas just don't > taste like chips and he really should get his act together. But, > metaphorically speaking we have the peas and chips and if you don't like > peas then spit them out but don't try and say it's the fault of the pea for > tasting like a pea. Thats what a pea is, deal with it ! (it's not so hard - > go on, give in to the peas give in ! you know you want the peas, you do !) Errr...you completely understood what I said, and the result was kinda funny actually. When I said "tweaking the same song over and over again", I wasn't saying for the entire career. In fact, I hate it when bands produce variations of the same tune over and over again. No, I was saying that if you think you're finished with a song, you're not even half done. Keep working on it more and more until you can't stand it any more, and then do it some more. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) URL for unofficial Plaid website Date: 19 Apr 2000 15:08:18 +0000 >From: Nub >Subject: (orbital) important and on-topic! >7/4 actually. not quite waltz. and yeah, it's cool. btw, my favorite wacky >electronic time signatures are on plaid's restproof clockwork. check it >out if that's your thing. check it out anyway cuz it's awesome. I came across an unofficial website for Plaid: http://plaid.cjb.net/ Worth a look.. I noticed a short conversation between Black Dog and Plaid on one of the newsgroups just recently a difference in opinion about tracks on a new Plaid LP containing early material due soon on Warp. Just wondering if you knew the release date ? Reply if you have - no big deal though I'm just being lazy. Thanks :-) -- -- Mark S-D 'A man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything' # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arfie Mansfield" Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 19 Apr 2000 19:29:02 +0000 >Though i GOTTA agree that both the current song and the "why does my >heart" one are basically endless repetitions of an admittedly catchy >loop! Then you haven't been listening to them properly. Admittedly, Natural Blues (the 'current' one) isn't that good, but it's not just an endless loop. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arfie Mansfield" Subject: Re: (orbital) Brendan... Date: 19 Apr 2000 19:32:52 +0000 >Ok, about my paragraphs. I am not a big reader, but I just guess you >read even less Brendan. Check out Dickens sometime. I wanna hear you >bitch about his sentances asnd paragraphs. Acing as a bit of a DA here, but in e-mails it's better if you have more paragraphs; probably because it's skim-read with more paragraphs, and many people skim-read e-mails. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 19 Apr 2000 18:39:28 +0000 Arfie Mansfield wrote: > > Then you haven't been listening to them properly. Admittedly, > Natural Blues (the 'current' one) isn't that good, but it's not just an > endless loop. What is this thing about "listening to them properly"? You shouldn't have to analyze music to enjoy it. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Agust 'Nemesis1' Arni Jonsson" Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 19 Apr 2000 19:37:07 +0000 At 18:39 19.4.2000 +0000, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: >Arfie Mansfield wrote: > > > > Then you haven't been listening to them properly. Admittedly, > > Natural Blues (the 'current' one) isn't that good, but it's not just an > > endless loop. > >What is this thing about "listening to them properly"? You shouldn't have to >analyze music to enjoy it. well, people listen to music on many different levels. some focus on vocals (and often hate instrumental music), while some prefer the music loud, and some just want it to stay in the background without interrupting them. so, almost getting to the point, not having heard the tune, I suspect that he's saying (or failed to do that :) that there are subtle levels in this track, which you might not notice if you if listen inactively to it, without paying attention to what's really going on in the track. example? a lot of the stuff by autechre. on the surface, some of their tracks sound random or samey, but if you start digging through the layers and take a closer look at the timing of some loops and other stuff like that, you'll see that it's not all quite that simple. another example: 'consumed' by plastikman. (imho a brilliant minimalistic ambient/house/techsomething). long lush flowing tracks with a lot of very subtle changes here and there. I love to listen to it in the dark, lying in my bed, just relaxing with headphones on... Agust "Nemesis1" - aaj@centrum.is - ICQ: 1290264 - http://nemesis1.cjb.net w00p! :P # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Beached Date: 20 Apr 2000 00:30:18 +0000 > Changing topics: How come Beached never made it? When I heard it I > thought it would be a popular radio hit. I think it could have been > played on several different stations (the pop stations that play > N-Sync.. as well as the 'hip' adult contemporary stations that mix > Santana and Fatboy Slim in their playlist). The classical music type > feel combined with Leonardo and a top notch beat deserves some > crossover airtime. > > Shaun Good question! I thought about it for a minute and i came to this conclusion: The only reason why we don't see 15-year old Shelly on this list that thinks "Leonardo is just so cuuuuute" is that the pop-kids are so dependant on their spindoctoring popmusic-sources like pop-magazines and MTV that they don't even KNOW that there's this track by Cutie Leo that they'd rip their heart out to have in their collection of Leo posters, Leo autograph cards and Leo bedsheets! They just FUCKING DON'T KNOW! 8) And i think that's HELLA funny!.. Cause you BET if they knew, that the song had soared up the charts in no time! 8) I mean - i just have to check the teeniepopcharts here for the past 5 years and there was NOTHING ELSE than pop-icons, mostly boygroups! They're so stuck in their own smallminded world of teenie-pop that is their only source, and if that source doesn't tell about a certain song or band it doesn't exist! 8) Lucky us got away with Orbital staying what it is! ;-D DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Moby... (NOOO!!!!) Date: 20 Apr 2000 00:30:18 +0000 > >Though i GOTTA agree that both the current song and the "why does my > >heart" one are basically endless repetitions of an admittedly catchy > >loop! > > Then you haven't been listening to them properly. Admittedly, > Natural Blues (the 'current' one) isn't that good, but it's not just an > endless loop. > Well, I agree with Brendan there, how 'proper' do i have to listen to them to find the variations? Variations would mean to me that the song has a buildup, some breaks, perhaps "excursions" into totally different parts nad NOT just the same loop over and over without noticeable changes? (I mean - HOW often do i have to hear "why does my heart... feel so bad" in the same song over and over until it gets boring? 8) Plus the nature of the loop being a vocal one makes it way too intense to notice variations in the rest of the tune cause i guess it lies in the human nature to focus on the vocals if there are any! See, when i make a logo i can also colorize it differently, or choose a different font, or spacing.. within minutes i could have 5 variations and call it a day! 8) But i can't cause it's not the 5 DIFFERENT suggestions the customer wants! 5 logos that just differ in very minor details are not creative!.. The only creative thing was making the original logo in the first place, and so i'd say the only creative thing Moby did *in that song* was creating that one catchy loop! DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) us wacky guys with our designer garments Date: 19 Apr 2000 23:58:04 +0000 [unfortunately snipped] > So what your saying is it's mentally irregular because it's determined by > chance or impulse rather than by necessity or reason ! Not a very nice > thing to say. Whatever you do don't say it if you find yourself getting a > blow job you'll be walking like John Wayne for months. > > forever whimsical, > -- > -- Mark S-D LOOL! Mark, as always you're brill! 8) I guess you're one of my top 3 most-interesting-to-read people on the list! ;-D Can i have a scan of that Shampoo-a-roo picture? <;-D DeeKay, listn'in to Style.. P.S.: Could someone of you Britheads PLEASE finally tell me who this Rolf actually is? From what i figured he must be something like Mr. Stylophone, but i want more details! 8) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Green Subject: Re: (orbital) what ? no egg ? Date: 19 Apr 2000 20:40:25 +0100 At 07:13 19/04/00 +0000, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > >In fact, I hate it when bands produce >variations >of the same tune over and over again. Does that include "Chime", "Chime Crime", the '94 live versions and last year's live version? I reckon it's OK to tweak the same song over the course of ten years (still can't believe it's been that long...) if it's a good 'un and you do it well. And if you only do it every few years. And the criticise/criticize thing... I think it depends which country you're in. But since this list's international, we should probably accept either. Besides, it's not spellingand grammar@xmission.com, is it? cheers, Jon (hoping it's all calmed down) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) what ? no egg ? Date: 20 Apr 2000 03:10:09 +0000 Jon Green wrote: > > Does that include "Chime", "Chime Crime", the '94 live versions and last > year's live version? I reckon it's OK to tweak the same song over the > course of ten years (still can't believe it's been that long...) if it's a > good 'un and you do it well. And if you only do it every few years. Again, you misunderstand. I'm talking about bands like Green Day and AC/DC, who produce the same song 12 times on an album and release it, then they do it again for the next album; same formula for 30 years. Remixes of songs are fine by me. > And the criticise/criticize thing... I think it depends which country > you're in. But since this list's international, we should probably accept > either. Besides, it's not spellingand grammar@xmission.com, is it? Hey, I don't do spelling flames, but one very long paragraph is just damned hard to read. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shaun Rader Subject: Re: (orbital) what ? no egg ? green day & ac/dc Date: 19 Apr 2000 21:09:38 -0700 (PDT) --- Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > > Again, you misunderstand. I'm talking about bands like Green Day and > AC/DC, who produce the same song 12 times on an album and release it, > then they do it again for the next album; same formula for 30 years. > Remixes of songs are fine by me. Ahhh I have to respond to this one.. I love punk rock and Green Day does not repeat the same song over and over.. and each of their cd's has a distinct sound to it. I don't like AC/DC much but I couldn't claim that they do the same thing over and over. It's all about what you like. You ask 90%+ of the world and they will tell you the most repetitive music is electronic. Are they right? No. It's just because they haven't gotten 'into' electronic music. When I first heard electronic I thought it was the same song over and over... until I started listening. Same with punk rock. Ask anyone and they will tell you 'it all sounds the same' for whatever genre they don't enjoy/listen to. Shaun __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nub Subject: (orbital) Re: orbital-digest V2 #326 (the whole damn thing!) Date: 19 Apr 2000 22:14:53 -0600 (MDT) > I do not take personal offense to criticism of my music. Some people hate > it, some people like it. However, I apreciate honesty in criticism and it is > usually helpful. this should probably be a private response, but i just wanted to mention that i quite liked the tracks you have up on mp3.com. they are quite different from the standard techno fare i've heard lately - sort of fall in between house, idm and more commercial stuff. anyway, original = good, so keep it up. btw, any plans to put up more tracks soon? > metaphorically speaking we have the peas and chips and if you don't like > peas then spit them out but don't try and say it's the fault of the pea for > tasting like a pea. Thats what a pea is, deal with it ! (it's not so hard - > go on, give in to the peas give in ! you know you want the peas, you do !) whoa, since when has mark been hitting the crackpipe? :) > I don't mean to clog up the digest with more crap, but I haven't read the > digest frequently as of late. Now, when I do, all I see is people pissing and > moaning at each other about crap not even related to the topic we signed up agreed. here's my request for the orbital list: could people please post more reviews? i am constantly on the lookout for new music, and i try to post about each new electronic CD i get, but rarely do i ever see any from you guys. i know you like orbital, so your tastes must not be all that bad - let us know what tickles your pickle! > > My suggestion for the next one would be Semi Detached! 8) > > Highly underrated, the song that got me into Orbital in the first=20 > > place and which i finally dug up on the net after unsuccessfully=20 yup, excellent stuff. one of their more experimental tracks, i'd say. the subtleties in there are unmatched by most anyone else. (see plastikman comment below...) > How about Style ? Is it just a musical joke or is there more to it....I was > sitting in my bath and I saw my shampoo. "Style with confidence" it said. uhhh... i like style. but speaking of shampoo and techno (how's that for a segue?) i was in the shower a while back and happened to glance at my housemate's shampoo bottle and it said: alberto: w/ balsalm that's not going to make any sense to you unless you're into aphex twin. but at least now we know how rdj gets his song titles (though last i checked there was no such thing as "windowlicker" underarm deoderant). > out the bath and put on the stereo and listened to Style again, this time > with a notebook and pen...looking for clues. Nothing much happened, but I > had drawn a Rolf-a-roo and a whole bunch of wiggly lines all over the place > - - now I was getting somewhere. The kangaroo shampoo connection, this is > what I'd been waiting my whole life for - I'm sure of it - I just don't > know why yet. Thats about as far as I got. whoa, more crack. mark, dude, maybe you should put away the bong for awhile! > Worth a look.. I noticed a short conversation between Black Dog and Plaid > on one of the newsgroups just recently a difference in opinion about tracks > on a new Plaid LP containing early material due soon on Warp. Just > wondering if you knew the release date ? Reply if you have - no big deal yeah - definitely the most interesting thing on idm-l in a while. the conflict is that ken (black dog) doesn't think that the other two guys (plaid) have the right to put out a compilation of plaid stuff on warp, since at the time those songs were written the boys were all still (legally at least) one big happy black dog productions family. kinda shitty of ken, imho, since a lot of people would kill to have stuff like mvuki mbuki on CD without paying ~$300 on ebay. in answer to your question, the release date is still way up in the air, since nobody's yet sure if it's gonna be legally viable (though i guess warp is confident - they announced it on warp-net). so we'll see. lets hope ken chills out and the comp flies. 3 CDs dood! rock! > another example: 'consumed' by plastikman. (imho a brilliant minimalistic > ambient/house/techsomething). long lush flowing tracks with a lot of very > subtle changes here and there. I love to listen to it in the dark, lying in > my bed, just relaxing with headphones on... plastikman is the true master of electronic subtlety. track 10 on consumed is a masterwork. minimal in the best possible way. shit, gotta do work. keep it jiggy, ya'll. nub # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) music reviews Date: 20 Apr 2000 01:42:41 -0400 Ok, I agree that we should post up some more random reviews because it's = always good to hear new music and not waste money on stuff you don't = want.=A0 I'm gonna talk about French hardcore dj Manu le Malin, because I= = listed to his stuff when I'm really pissed off or hyper.=A0 I consider hi= m = (along with Alec Empire) to be the Trent Reznor of techno, which is = important; as good as Orbital is, they don't satisfy all of your musical = needs.=A0 Anyway, I have Malin's compilation Biomechanik.=A0 There's a sequel, but = I = don't have that.=A0 Biomechanik has really catchy stuff out the wazoo, an= d = it's all incredibly weird and bizarre.=A0 In other words, not for = everyone, but really energetic, fast as hell, and if you want to piss = your neighour off you can turn it up really loud and leave or = something.=A0 I first heard the cd because my friend had it a year ago, = and I couldn't get the strange vocals and samples out of my head, so I = finally bought it.=A0 It's pretty rare, so if you're interested, look at = more obscure places (unless you're french).=A0 It's pretty strange to see= = France's contribution to the electronic genre, as Daft Punk may not be = completely representative =3D ).=A0 I might decide to rip the cd up to my= = site.=A0 I'll keep you guys posted.=A0 Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mr. Telex" Subject: (orbital) OT : Reload Is Back ??? Date: 20 Apr 2000 08:20:36 GMT Hey guys, I saw some info on a new Kraftwerk tribute compilation called, "Cracking The Code". It is set for a May release date on Vitamin Records and Reload is listed as doing a cover of "Showroom Dummies". Thought you guys may be interested. :-) - Josh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Der Automat" Subject: RE: (orbital) No Orbital scheduled, but Autechre Live Si!! Date: 19 Apr 2000 12:16:29 +0200 Skip Acuff wrote: > http://www.sonar.es/indexb.htm Well Orbital played at Sonar Festival (Barcelona) last year. And also in 1996. DER AUTOMAT # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Der Automat" Subject: RE: (orbital) STOP IT! Date: 20 Apr 2000 11:37:52 +0200 Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > And we are having this argument because the ML would be dead if we > didn't. The mind boggles. That's beyond a joke! >:-( >If you want me to be Mr. Happy-Smiley person, like some of the people on >this list, I can do that, but that's not realistic. I'm inclined to think that you think we all are hypocritical persons. Seemingly all fears that the river of inspiration ran dry are hereby put to truth. >You mistake honesty and bluntness for assholeness. And you mistake honesty for misanthropeness. Sincerely I have no time enough (and think nobody on this list) to read about your unhealthy monologues. I thought this ML was to acquire knowledge and to share them. BTW, this is the main reason why I've left this mailing list. With my deepest sympathy. DER AUTOMAT # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Belbin Subject: (orbital) who's who Date: 20 Apr 2000 19:24:50 +0100 Aussie Rolf - Mr Harris - made his name doing a 'painting' tv show for kids, drawing very quickly, with the deeply irritating catchphrase 'Do you know what it is yet?' repeated add infinitum. He also recorded a string of truly great songs - oft covered by punk bands (well Splodgenessabounds did 'Two Little Boys' and Alice Cooper did a mindbogglingly brilliant 'Sun Arise'). He did indeed also advertise and popularise the Stylophone. An 'original' of which is (or was) available to play on the Super Furry Animals truly super site. Somebody or other asked who John Craven was a while back, and I dont think anyone ever replied. He was another kids tv presenter - presenting John Craven's Newsround - a 'radical' show, in that it was the first (British) news show aimed at kids, and because John sat ON the desk, not behind it. He eventually left because (he said) he was sick of doing stories about cuddly animals. And now, slightly ironically, he presents Country File. So who are these 'Phil' and 'Paul' geezers? rich # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) music reviews Date: 20 Apr 2000 20:59:37 +0000 > more obscure places (unless you're french).=A0 It's pretty strange to s= ee=20 > France's contribution to the electronic genre, as Daft Punk may not be=20 > completely representative =3D ).=A0 I might decide to rip the cd up to = my=20 > site.=A0 I'll keep you guys posted.=A0 >=20 > Marc Sawaya What about Les Rhythmes Digitales? 8) Okay, he's only french-born, but still... pretty damn impressive for=20 such a youngster! Very unique sound-style-synthesis!.. Doesn anyone have more from him than the Nothing left mix and "What's=20 that sound?"... I'd really like to check out more of his stuff! DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "morpheus" Subject: Re: (orbital) music reviews Date: 20 Apr 2000 22:50:46 -0700 What about Les Rhythmes Digitales? 8) Okay, he's only french-born, but still... pretty damn impressive for such a youngster! Very unique sound-style-synthesis!.. Doesn anyone have more from him than the Nothing left mix and "What's that sound?"... I'd really like to check out more of his stuff! I've seen a lot of his stuff on in record shops. I've listened to quite a bit of it, and I did not find it anything special. However, I was looking for something new to spin, and I may have just discarded because it didn't fit into my set. But, if I remember correctly, it wasn't that good. cya morpheus # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Belbin Subject: Re: (orbital) OT: Beached Date: 21 Apr 2000 10:35:28 +0100 Mmm, I think part of the reason that Beached didnt do as well as it might have, is the bloody annoying samples from the film. Its a perfectly fine tune (by no means O's greatest, but pretty darned good). A line or two at the beginning/end would have been cool, but, they're all over the place man, and neither add to the track, nor even give you a decent insight into what the film's about. rich # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: (orbital) it's all about Rolf Harris so press delete Date: 20 Apr 2000 06:46:04 +0000 >Damn man! Don't take the words literally. I just said that because of the >up/down slider stuff in the song. And yeah, I love the french horn in Way Out. You're right, I shouldn't be so picky about what you say. (different post) >No, I was saying that if you think you're finished with a song, you're not even >half done. Keep working on it more and more until you can't stand it any more, >and then do it some more. Just a difference of opinion ? It's not the time spent it's if you are into what you are doing or not (IMO). If I heard I record like that it might say to me "I'm not happy with this record it's still not good enough". Because that's what the person would be feeling. Which is fair enough, but you can't expect everyone to be such a perfectionist can you ? If you were drawing a picture don't you think the persons time would be better spent looking at what they were drawing..instead of just looking at the paper and saying "it's wrong it's just no good" - for most of the time ? DeeKay, listn'in to Style.. >P.S.: Could someone of you Britheads PLEASE finally tell me who this >Rolf actually is? From what i figured he must be something like Mr. >Stylophone, but i want more details! 8) I can't express the Rolfyness of Rolf Harris but he's erm... Yeah, he's "erm...". He's an Australian born cartoonist who's very enthusiastic about many things, including his own special kind of music. Which again is hard to describe but he likes it a lot and thats the main thing, people end up liking it too and they have no idea why - such is his genius. He's done a lot of television for children and childish adults and people either like him a lot or turn a blind eye, he likes animals a lot and has been recently doing a programme called Animal Hospital - in this he walks around looking like he's high on LSD while holding the internal body parts of various cute fluffy animals in each hand !! He has a fat poodle which ignores him most of the time but he's not that bothered.. Famously he brought the Stlylophone into the world (kicking and screaming) but as you know this was a much overlooked achievement especially with the advent of the Roland family of drum machines which came along later ! What's being an innovator actually worth ? ...and to whoever: Seems to me theres been a lot of people moaning about other people moaning just recently and I'm getting tired of it !! (thats a *joke*...btw) I don't think theres been much intentional nastyness unless you want to point out swearing as being proof of that. Please talk about whatever you want to talk about, especially if you have got Orbital related stuff to say because I want to hear it too. (enough people have been saying this already). Don't shout about the darkness just turn on the light - most of the time people just can't find the switch ! You want to hate or blame them for that ? (like you blame yourself perhaps ? like 'Justice'). And I know I make the same mistakes if anyone wants to be kind enough to point it out to me but I still think it's relevant. If you think everythings just a dig then you're the one who's missing out and maybe it's you that should wake up. Why should anyone respond either positively *or* negatively to what another person says ? And if a person is looking after their own interests (ego..whatever) why do you think they might do that ? Off to actually listen to some records now....my brains hurts...lol..... -- -- Mark S-D # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mehul Parekh" Date: 20 Apr 2000 12:00:36 -0500 Ever felt completely helpless? Wanted to download something onto your disk, but only had to watch it whenever they made a webcast on mediaplayer? well, rejoice for there is now the voquette media manager File extensions supported: wma, .asf, .asx, .mov, .m3u, .ra, .rm, .ram, .smi, .wav, .mp3 to be found at www.voquette.com man that is really something. check it out. Mehul Parekh I __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arfie Mansfield" Subject: (orbital) Mixmag Date: 22 Apr 2000 18:53:31 +0000 According to the latest issue of Mixmag, Orbital have 3 tracks of the album done, have done/are doing an unspecified remix, and are preparing some stuff for live sets later in the year. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arfie Mansfield" Subject: (orbital) Orbital Posters Date: 22 Apr 2000 22:02:18 +0000 A while back, someone posted the address of a site which had Orbital posters (somethingposters.com - can't remember), coulld whoever it was contact me with the address. Thanks. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jon Green Subject: Re: (orbital) music reviews Date: 20 Apr 2000 22:16:54 +0100 At 20:59 20/04/00 +0000, deekay@mail.dfu.de wrote: >What about Les Rhythmes Digitales? 8) >Okay, he's only french-born, I thought he was from Slough, pretending to be French? >Doesn anyone have more from him than the Nothing left mix and "What's >that sound?"... I'd really like to check out more of his stuff! I always got the idea it was novelty 80's retro-electro/pop, so that Nothing Left mix isn't what I was expecting. I'd like to know if that remix is representative of his stuff 'cos then I'll bother to seek out more. Anybody heard Speedy J's new album? I've not got round to finding it yet. And what about that new Slag Boom Van Loon (Speedy J & Mike Paradinas) that someone (Rob?) mentioned was out soon? Is it out yet? The last great CD I bought was AUX 88's "Electro Boogie" mix on Studio K7. Anybody into that Detroit techno-bass stuff should get this. Actually, they probably have by now. cheers, Jon # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arfie Mansfield" Subject: (orbital) OT: Y3K follow-up Date: 22 Apr 2000 22:13:35 +0000 Distinct'ive Breaks have released Tyrant, a follow-up to Y3K, and it looks as if it's going to be just as good. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: demmietrius anthony cimpson Subject: Re: (orbital) Orbital Posters Date: 22 Apr 2000 17:21:15 -0500 (CDT) The site was www.pushposters.com -Demmie # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lysergic maximus Subject: (orbital) phoenix residents? Date: 23 Apr 2000 08:22:53 -0500 sorry for the crosspost all, doubly sorry for those that get this twice (or more) i'm going to be in phoenix all next week on business and was wondering if there are any residents out there who could tell me where the decent record stores are. i'm especially interested in places with used vinyl so if you can hook me up i'd appreciate it. thanks a bunch and have a nice day. lysergic # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: orbette Subject: (orbital) Re: (orb) phoenix residents? Date: 23 Apr 2000 12:06:14 -0600 lysergic maximus wrote: > sorry for the crosspost all, doubly sorry for those that get this twice (or > more) > > i'm going to be in phoenix all next week on business and was wondering if > there are any residents out there who could tell me where the decent record > stores are. i'm especially interested in places with used vinyl so if you > can hook me up i'd appreciate it. thanks a bunch and have a nice day. One word in Phoenix records stores: ZIA. I don't even live there anymore and I STILL order stuff from them. Now if I could only remember the name of that shoppe that specialised in bootlegs. Sun Valley'ers can ya help?? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Aronne Merrelli" Subject: (orbital) Re: afx track names, bd vs. plaid, reviews, Date: 23 Apr 2000 13:50:58 PDT >Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:14:53 -0600 (MDT) >From: Nub >Subject: (orbital) Re: orbital-digest V2 #326 (the whole damn thing!) > >uhhh... i like style. but speaking of shampoo and techno (how's that for a >segue?) i was in the shower a while back and happened to glance at my >housemate's shampoo bottle and it said: > >alberto: w/ balsalm > >that's not going to make any sense to you unless you're into aphex twin. >but at least now we know how rdj gets his song titles (though last i >checked there was no such thing as "windowlicker" underarm deoderant). LOL! I always figured his tracknames were just made up, but thats a bit extreme :-) > > out the bath and put on the stereo and listened to Style again, this >time > > with a notebook and pen...looking for clues. Nothing much happened, but >I > > had drawn a Rolf-a-roo and a whole bunch of wiggly lines all over the >place > > - - now I was getting somewhere. The kangaroo shampoo connection, this >is > > what I'd been waiting my whole life for - I'm sure of it - I just don't > > know why yet. Thats about as far as I got. > >whoa, more crack. mark, dude, maybe you should put away the bong for >awhile! > > > Worth a look.. I noticed a short conversation between Black Dog and >Plaid > > on one of the newsgroups just recently a difference in opinion about >tracks > > on a new Plaid LP containing early material due soon on Warp. Just > > wondering if you knew the release date ? Reply if you have - no big deal > >yeah - definitely the most interesting thing on idm-l in a while. the >conflict is that ken (black dog) doesn't think that the other two guys >(plaid) have the right to put out a compilation of plaid stuff on warp, >since at the time those songs were written the boys were all still >(legally at least) one big happy black dog productions family. kinda >shitty of ken, imho, since a lot of people would kill to have stuff like >mvuki mbuki on CD without paying ~$300 on ebay. > True, but I think what Ken prefers is that the original CDs were repressed. Which I agree is a better solution - although one that seems unlikely to happen. So I guess this Plaid compo is the only way any of this material will get re-released. I can't wait for it either, cause it has the Android EP on it with 'Angry Dolphin' which is just a cool as hell track. >agreed. here's my request for the orbital list: could people please post >more reviews? i am constantly on the lookout for new music, and i try to >post about each new electronic CD i get, but rarely do i ever see any from >you guys. i know you like orbital, so your tastes must not be all that bad >- - let us know what tickles your pickle! A few things I've been enjoying lately : Parc mutzle - this is a nice little 3 track CD. It reminds me of orbital somewhat, not that it sounds like orbital, but the complexity and arrangement is similar. Its only $3, and available straight from the source - I believe this is a self produced - no record label involved at all! RA clips & order info at www.parcmutzle.com Arovane - everything. I bought Atol Scrap [arovane 4], arovane 3, arovane 2, and plint/thaem all with a couple weeks of each other. Atol Scrap is the only one on CD - others are 12". This guy's stuff is unbelievable. A reasonable comparison would be anvil vapre- era Autechre style, in that he uses heavy beats, even often breakbeats (but no Amen samples or crap like that) mixed in with subtle ambient textures. Favorite track is definitely the auBen vor remix on arovane 3. Everyone should buy a turntable just to hear this :-) (some Ra of plnt/thaem at : http://www.eevolute.com/fwd9901.shtml Note that if you listen to plnt first, this track doesn't match his other tracks - this one is a deep tech house track) Lackluster - suntrap / cull streak 12" (focus) this is really hard to describe. Somewhat Board of Canada like, with simple melodies and beats - but its definitely is his own style. Very much 'chill-out' music. If you are vinyl impaired, he also has a CD released on Focus, I think the title is 'Container' - definitely worth checking out. American Beauty score - If you saw the movie and liked the music, get this. Note that I'm talking about the score (by Thomas Newman) not the soundtrack :-) Its very emotional music... I think the music is still as powerful on its own, separated from the movie. The only problem is that the tracks are very short - 'Arose' is one of my favorites and its only 1:05, so I've considered burning my own CDr of this where I loop the tracks a few times :-) Toshoklabs - everything!!!!! These guys are geniuses. IMHO this is the best electronic music label right now... (its the kind of music that isn't easily classified because it pulls from many sources. Go to www.toshoklabs.com for some great mp3's (the Nanofunk EP is downloadable, and absolutely amazing!!!) and also a live mp3 from Antarktika. The website is very cool in its own right, so check it out! If anyone lives near NYC they do perform live occasionally. Well, thats enough for now, I'm tired of typing :-) Regards, Aronne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trym Asserson" Subject: Re: (orbital) more music Date: 24 Apr 2000 10:12:45 BST >Anybody heard Speedy J's new album? I've not got round to finding it yet. On that note, what style does he play? Always thought he was a d&b man, but that's more because of the name than articles. Picked up some great things lately: David Holmes - My Mate Paul remixes 12" Schematix - Discrepancies EP 12" (at a ludicrous 99p) DJ TeeBee Presents - Black Science Labs (on vinyl so not been able to check out yet other than in store ;) ) What sort of price should you be looking for if you're after a Technics SL1210MK2 ? I've recently seen £319, is that good? Ahhh.. only one more week of finals and a full return to the normal world. :( Buhhbye! Trym Trym Asserson - 'Apollo' - apollo_project@hotmail.com Biosphere Zine : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceetba/apollo/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Yates Subject: (orbital) Speedy J Date: 24 Apr 2000 10:59:41 -0400 This CD is really dark in flavor with deep, heavy heavy bass. Certain songs will remind you of Aphex Twin (the darker moments of SAW II), Autechre (the first song off Anvil Vapre, Second Bad Vibel, if memory serves), and Alec Empire, The Iceland Sessions). I find this release to be very involving, like driving into a tunnel. If you're familiar with his previous full-length album, Public Energy No 1, you'll recognize the direction he is going in, and appreciate the new depths he's discovered. And he hasn't made any d&b tracks, as far as I know. In terms of a musical category, I'd put him with Aphex Twin and Autechre, but I wouldn't put them in a category ; ) And I would give Shocking Hobby a perfect rating (well, nothing's perfect, but I have no negative comments about this album) >>Anybody heard Speedy J's new album? I've not got round to finding it yet. > >On that note, what style does he play? Always thought he was a d&b >man, but that's more because of the name than articles. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Skip Acuff" Subject: (orbital) Re: (orb) phoenix residents? Date: 24 Apr 2000 12:44:23 -0700 >>One word in Phoenix records stores: ZIA. I don't even live there anymore and I STILL order stuff from them. <<< Zia's is very good for cds, but they don't have a lot of vinyl. There is vinyl shop at 4741 N. Central Avenue, Phoenix called Tracks in Wax. It claims to have an eclectic inventory of over 60,000 titles (602-274-2660/ web: http://www.primenet.com/~tracks/ ) Also try Stinkweed's Record Exchange in Tempe (call 480-968-9490 for directions) or Swell (480-945-3898)., both of which cater to the rave/dance/dj culture I am told. Hope that helps. Enjoy your visit. NOTE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the sender of this E-Mail or by telephone at (602) 262-5311. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 25 Apr 2000 13:38:23 -0400 Hey glauco! The stuff I know about are animal model studies done by neuroscientists. I don't have them compiled or anything but there is tons of data about damage to serotonin systems and the nerve endings {synapses} being burnt out. You might go look-up MDMA {?Methoxy-Dimethyl-Methamphetamine} on The Society for Neuroscience website: http://www.sfn.org or on National Library of Medicine's "PubMed" site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi Whoever [maybe you?] it was that countered my last post with the fact that only one study has been done using similar doses to what ppl are taking is probably right about that {no damage found}. HOWEVER! the animal studies DO prove that MDMA {the chem name for it} causes over stimulation {why you get off!} of these synaptic connections where the serotonin neurotransmitters become completely depleted and die-off in the process. There is scientific data showing that these degenerated endings can be traced and stained with fluorescent tracers and the damage is pretty global {all over} the brain because the serotonergic systems are 'modifiers' to many brain functions controlled by other neurotransmitters. Granted we are constantly losing old connections and making new ones all the time which accounts for people being able to learn their whole lives even though they only get one set of neurons that stop growing around your early 20's. But the general rule with ANY exposure to ANY substance it's "long term" {chronic} abuse that catches up with people. The good news is that brains have an amazing capacity to recover from short-term {acute} insults. {Just go easy on them or these become chronic too} And one last caveat being, this ability to compensate and recover from acute injuries decreases, the older we get. {I can't drink a tenth of what I could guzzle in college} ;) Watch Take care {a friend of mine says this} ShannON +ON +ON ------------ bacchi wrote: > > hi > have you any links to the data on long term e usage? > wud b most interested and grateful. > thanx in adance. > glauco > > > > JL Jones wrote: > > > US News and World Report also had an Ecstasy > > > article last week. I get the print editon.. > > > Same anti-usage propaganda BS.... > > > ah well... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chump Subject: (orbital) Underworld Split !!!!!!!!!! Date: 25 Apr 2000 23:51:46 +0200 check this link out : http://www.nme.com/newsdesk/20000425123737.html -- bye chump chump@netvision.net.il # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Shannon K. Campbell" Subject: (orbital) Who is Scott Walker? Date: 25 Apr 2000 19:39:11 -0400 On Chumpo's advice I took the bait and saw that Mr. Emerson is leaving underworld. Upon further investigation, I'm just cluing in about Orbital scheduled for this Meltdown festival in London June17-July2 http://www.nme.com/newsdesk/20000404173928.html My question is "who is Scott Walker?". I get that he's the organiser, but the article implies that he will be performing with Orbital as well. Also, Just heard David gray on PBS's World Cafe. Pretty nice tune. Not sure if Paul was in there or not... ?Is there another David Gray besides the one Paul works with? So many questions so little time ... SHIT!, Gotta giit! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trym Asserson" Subject: (orbital) (non-orbital) but Biosphere! Date: 26 Apr 2000 17:54:54 BST Hi folks! New Biosphere solo-album out now. Cirque released in Norway on 21st April, 2000. Only available on mail order from Touch so far, but in UK it has retail release after May 2nd, I think. Anyway, excellent piece, brilliant ambient from the norwegian master composer of arctic aural pleasure. The CD ranges from reworkings of past tracks, new tracks mostly influenced by recent, commissioned works and projects of Geir Jenssen, such as the Silent Orchestra, and other long pieces. Comes in nice digipak with nice cover imagery from natural scenes throughout the world. I get the impression the theme is water, both frozen and live, or natural sounds, for this album. It will take more than just the half-way through listen I've had so far, but this album seems to me another defining moment of Biosphere's career. Best regards, Trym Asserson - over the moon today and for the weeks to come, two Biosphere releases this year! :) Trym Asserson - 'Apollo' - apollo_project@hotmail.com Biosphere Zine : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceetba/apollo/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Speedy J Date: 26 Apr 2000 14:00:20 -0400 Chris Yates wrote: > > And he hasn't made any d&b tracks, as far as I know. In terms of a > musical category, I'd put him with Aphex Twin and Autechre, but I > wouldn't put them in a category ; ) There's always IDM :) -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 26 Apr 2000 14:12:34 -0400 "Shannon K. Campbell" wrote: > > Hey glauco! > > The stuff I know about are animal model studies done by neuroscientists. > I don't have them compiled or anything but there is tons of data about > damage to serotonin systems and the nerve endings {synapses} being burnt > out. You might go look-up MDMA {?Methoxy-Dimethyl-Methamphetamine} on > The Society for Neuroscience website: > http://www.sfn.org > or on National Library of Medicine's "PubMed" site: > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi > > Whoever [maybe you?] it was that countered my last post with the fact > that only one study has been done using similar doses to what ppl are > taking is probably right about that {no damage found}. HOWEVER! the > animal studies DO prove that MDMA {the chem name for it} causes over > stimulation {why you get off!} of these synaptic connections where the > serotonin neurotransmitters become completely depleted and die-off in > the process. After reading that anti-E propoganda bullshit on USA Today, I decided to check some REAL sources about neurotoxicity with MDMA. Erowid, as usual, has lots of information, including a good report on neurotox studies: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq3.shtml#neurotox Net result is that one study on MDMA which produced neurotoxicity was jury-rigged with unusually high doses (and methods of intake), just so the media can feed off them and announce "Studies show..." Another -real- study on -primates- taken -orally- with -normal doses- produced no neurotox. It recommends that even if MDMA is neurotoxic, some OJ and bananas would do the trick to combat it easily. Hey, if people die because they aren't drinking something as simple as water, maybe you should think about a visit to a smart bar for a quick banana/OJ drink. As Shannon said, MODERATION! -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Trym Asserson" Subject: Re: (orbital) Speedy J Date: 26 Apr 2000 20:13:26 BST >Chris Yates wrote: > > > > And he hasn't made any d&b tracks, as far as I know. In terms of a > > musical category, I'd put him with Aphex Twin and Autechre, but I > > wouldn't put them in a category ; ) > >There's always IDM :) Recently that term's become just as annoying as people calling all electronic music "techno". As for Aphex Twin, Autechre and Speedy J, here's another one I think will fit in just nicely. Pilote, Certificate 18 artist with some heavily Autechre-doped music. Uses more samples though than I've heard in Autechre, but still the scratching, scraping, half-finished, industrial sounds that blended together sounds perfectly harmonious (if that is a word?). Trym Trym Asserson - 'Apollo' - apollo_project@hotmail.com Biosphere Zine : http://www.cee.hw.ac.uk/~ceetba/apollo/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xolotl Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 26 Apr 2000 14:45:52 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote: > Erowid, as usual, has lots of > information, including a good report on neurotox studies: > > http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_faq3.shtml#neurotox agreed this site has everything you ever wanted to know...and most of it is un biased if you can believe that. I've been a lot more accepting of chemcials due to the information found on erowid. > Net result is that one study on MDMA which produced neurotoxicity was > jury-rigged with unusually high doses (and methods of intake), just so the media > can feed off them and announce "Studies show..." Another -real- study on > -primates- taken -orally- with -normal doses- produced no neurotox. > agreed again. Granted a wide range of tests need to be performed for us to even begin to understand the effects of mdma, but for the media AND uneducated people to latch onto these results, and say "bad" is not cool at all. > It recommends that even if MDMA is neurotoxic, some OJ and bananas would do the > trick to combat it easily. Hey, if people die because they aren't drinking > something as simple as water, maybe you should think about a visit to a smart > bar for a quick banana/OJ drink. > > As Shannon said, MODERATION! unless your a chronic user there should be no worries about neurotoxic affects. To prevent neurotoxicity any SSRI's (prozac, effexor aka venlafaxine) will help the most if taken within 6 hours of dropping. I disagree with the banana thing though. It's true the fruit does contain serotonin, but our bodies are unable to metabolize it. I like to think of banana's as the happy fruit ;) Side Note: Pihkal Phenethylamines I Have Known And Loved: A Chemical Love Story By Alexander and Ann Shulgin I must stress how cool this book is. If you take drugs, have ever taken drugs, or if you think there is a chance you might take drugs, this is a must read. An online version of the second half of this book can be found here: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml XoLoTl # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Aronne Merrelli" Subject: (orbital) Re: pilote / worm interface Date: 26 Apr 2000 15:38:38 PDT >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:13:26 BST >From: "Trym Asserson" >Subject: Re: (orbital) Speedy J > > >Chris Yates wrote: > > > > > > And he hasn't made any d&b tracks, as far as I know. In terms of a > > > musical category, I'd put him with Aphex Twin and Autechre, but I > > > wouldn't put them in a category ; ) > > > >There's always IDM :) > >Recently that term's become just as annoying as people calling all >electronic music "techno". As for Aphex Twin, Autechre and Speedy J, here's >another one I think will fit in just nicely. Pilote, Certificate 18 artist >with some heavily Autechre-doped music. Uses more samples though than I've >heard in Autechre, but still the scratching, scraping, half-finished, >industrial sounds that blended together sounds perfectly harmonious (if >that >is a word?). Oh yeah, this is a _fantastic_ album. It stands out as the only CD I've ever bought where the filler wasn't all filler - In other words the short filler tracks are really good and I wish they were longer :-) Although I'm not sure that the industrial-ness is present so much. I'd say this artist is some how more 'down-to-earth' than Autechre... autechre's sounds tend to be almost alien and far-reaching, whereas Pilote is more about groove and melodic hooks. But yeah he does drop samples more often - and they are always well placed. "microphone is pickin' this all up!" I Love that track :-) Still in the spirit of recommending music, I highly recommend worm interface. (www.worminterface.com) Most especially the lastest Plod album. Actually I don't own it yet but from the strength of "Markinaal" (you can get an mp3 through the website) this must be an amazing album. If I had to classify this I'd group it with Boards of Canada's music. Other than that album, everything on Worm interface is great - some jazzy stuff, some drill and bassy stuff, mostly unclassifiable stuff, but all good stuff :-) regards, aronne ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: afx track names Date: 27 Apr 2000 04:13:46 +0000 > >uhhh... i like style. but speaking of shampoo and techno (how's that for a > >segue?) i was in the shower a while back and happened to glance at my > >housemate's shampoo bottle and it said: > > > >alberto: w/ balsalm > > > >that's not going to make any sense to you unless you're into aphex twin. > >but at least now we know how rdj gets his song titles (though last i > >checked there was no such thing as "windowlicker" underarm deoderant). > > LOL! I always figured his tracknames were just made up, > but thats a bit extreme :-) I once read in the AFX FAQ that windowlicker is supposed to come from French, for a person that likes to go shopping (lick shop-windows - got it?)!.. What's more, i think Alberto balsalm was an Acronym of many other tracknames like so often with Aphex, but don't ask me which ones! <:-) Go look it up yourselves on www.aphextwin.org DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Schultz" Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: afx track names Date: 26 Apr 2000 22:38:25 EDT Mike Paradinas, aka u-ziq, said that "Windowlicker" is the name of a shady looking person that you'd see on a bus, one that is sort of strange looking and sits way up against the window, and appears to never shower or anything, as if they almost LIVE in bus stations. I think RDJ said the same thing, too. Rob ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: (orbital) re: Underworld Split !!!!!!!!!! Date: 26 Apr 2000 17:12:11 -0700 > http://www.nme.com/newsdesk/20000425123737.html How interesting... Only a half hour before reading this, I took down from my office wall my only Underworld poster (signed by all three members!). It had been up for almost a year, and I felt it was time for a change. Guess it was more than that! Kurt # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Foy Booker Subject: (orbital) re: Underworld Split !!!!!!!!!! Date: 26 Apr 2000 17:12:11 -0700 > http://www.nme.com/newsdesk/20000425123737.html How interesting... Only a half hour before reading this, I took down from my office wall my only Underworld poster (signed by all three members!). It had been up for almost a year, and I felt it was time for a change. Guess it was more than that! Kurt # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: life kid Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: pilote / worm interface Date: 26 Apr 2000 19:54:41 -0500 on 4/26/00 5:38 PM, Aronne Merrelli spoke these words: > Oh yeah, this is a _fantastic_ album. It stands out as the only > CD I've ever bought where the filler wasn't all filler - In other > words the short filler tracks are really good and I wish > they were longer :-) i would say that speedy j's "ginger" is along those lines. that being, the "the filler wasn't all filler." he goes even a step further and names them all "fill x" (insert a number instead of x). good album, too. -- perez : len email : lmperez@uiuc.edu uiuc : graphic design site : www.students.uiuc.edu/~lmperez now playing : digweed_global underground 14 "the best thing anyone can do is push the boundaries and do it well. the second best thing anyone can do is attempt to push boundaries and fuck up." - ian anderson DR # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) Death becomes us. Date: 27 Apr 2000 22:12:04 -0400 Well looks like we're dead.=A0 To liven things up, I figured out how to = set up a shoutcast server, so I'm broadcasting my entire Orbital = playlist on shuffle 24/7 (56k stream).=A0 You can listen with a modem and= = winamp, just go to shoutcast.com and search for orbital.=A0 I'm probably = the only one that will show up.=A0 If the stream is too high of a rate I = can lower it and increase the current 5 listener capacity.=A0 If you like= = the song that's playing, look what it's called, and you can find it = you-know-where.=A0 I'm only gonna be able to do this for a week or so, an= d = then I'm home for the summer.=A0 Enjoy while you can. Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Cieszkowski" Subject: (orbital) RE: (orb) hello. Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:58:03 -0400 While we're on the topic, does anybody know what the music at the start of the show "Third Watch" is? Thanks, Andrew "It's like something from another planet." LX Paterson # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: demmietrius anthony cimpson Subject: Re: (orbital) Underworld Split !!!!!!!!!! Date: 28 Apr 2000 01:47:03 -0500 (CDT) Darren Emerson wasn't an intricate part of the group anyway. Rick Smith does all the music. No big loss. -Demmie # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ian Mahuron" Subject: (orbital) [OT] Looking for junkies Date: 28 Apr 2000 07:25:43 -0700 Looking for fellow Coldcut junkies. E-mail me 'eh? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Subject: (orbital) Sci-Fi Brothers Date: 28 Apr 2000 19:04:55 -0400 I know the Hartnolls are big sci-fi fans (Star Trek, Dr. Who, Event Horizon, THX-1138, etc.) and was just wondering if they have any unreleased tracks which contain other sci-fi samples they enjoy (such as Star Wars --I'm sure it would be difficult to obtain copyright permission for that) Steve, please let me know if you happen to find this out while talking w/ them and what other sci-fi releases they greatly enjoy. I'd be interested to see just what 'twists their fabrics of space' and influences who they are :) Thanks, Brian # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Subject: Re: (orbital) Sci-Fi Brothers Date: 29 Apr 2000 11:01:30 +0100 They are must also be 'Thunderbirds' fans - DSBC [Depth Charge] has samples taken from the first Thunderbirds episode which was also released as an LP (was a Captain Scarlett episode on the flip side?). Steve # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Sci-Fi Brothers Date: 29 Apr 2000 13:39:42 -0400 Brian wrote: > > (such as Star Wars --I'm sure it would be difficult to obtain copyright > permission for that) Copyright permission?! Ha! Electronica artists laugh at copyrights when it comes to samples, and they shouldn't have to deal with them anyway. As far as borrowing from Star Wars, I think Mocean Worker had a sample with Luke saying "What's wrong?" on his first track "What's Wrong?". -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CD Rich Subject: Re: (orbital) Sci-Fi Brothers Date: 29 Apr 2000 14:38:47 -0400 On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 13:39:42 -0400 Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper writes: > Brian wrote: > > > > (such as Star Wars --I'm sure it would be difficult to obtain copyright > > permission for that) > > Copyright permission?! Ha! Electronica artists laugh at copyrights when it > comes to samples, and they shouldn't have to deal with them anyway. As far as > borrowing from Star Wars, I think Mocean Worker had a sample with Luke saying > "What's wrong?" on his first track "What's Wrong?". Hmm.. if that's the case then I wonder why the Star Wars sample used on Global Communication's UK release Pentamerous Metamorphosis ("How many languages do you speak?" C3P0: "I am fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of communication.") was removed when the CD was released in the US? No need to answer Brendan - just wondering aloud. Thanks, CDRich CDs for sale or trade - new CDs added every Sunday: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stadium/6749/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper Subject: Re: (orbital) Sci-Fi Brothers Date: 29 Apr 2000 15:25:33 -0400 CD Rich wrote: > > Hmm.. if that's the case then I wonder why the Star Wars sample used on > Global Communication's UK release Pentamerous Metamorphosis ("How many > languages do you speak?" C3P0: "I am fluent in over 6,000,000 forms of > communication.") was removed when the CD was released in the US? Paranoia, I guess, but I've never heard of musicians asking permission to use any of the samples. The lightsaber activation sound has been used almost as often as some Doom sounds, without permission of course. -- Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper (SineSwiper@ResonatorSoft.com) Computer techie, Perl hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru Resonator Software (http://www.ResonatorSoft.com/) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark S-D Subject: Re: (orbital) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 30 Apr 2000 00:14:28 +0000 I saw some scientific posts about drugs before, and this is a response to that, quite a long post so if you want to get distracted in something else I hope you'll still find what you are looking for, elsewhere. The point is to say be careful as to not to pick from the scientific evidence available to support ones own prejudices, not to say this is or is not happening but to deeply question ones own motives for wanting to know something, and to who or what benefit knowing about something is. I had taken E, acid..whatever but not crack...(everythings possible though). Anyway, it was being because I had an attachment to the idea that I should be happy and wasn't most of the time and thought others were, and I should be the same. As Deekay and some others have explored this has much to do with insistence of the shared idea of capitalisms "what can you do for US, you are not us, what's GOOD about YOU, we are making things so you can be a GOOD person, here..buy this..you will be a good person then..you will be one of US then and you will not be lonely (by the very devices that we have created a world view for ourselves)." You want to forget about this don't you..and this post too..well pay some attention for once in your life. This is not *just* a gripe about capitalism ! Excuse me but it has sweet fuck all to do with money or if you do not have money, your hatred towards those that do *or* your shame because you do and others dont, it has everything to do with the devices of assumed knowledge by which we use to separate each other and then seek to compensate the feelings of loss and loneliness by whatever means, this in turn feeds itself. *Us*..not the "West", or "America" or "me" or "you" *or* him over there in the suit behind the screen (a mistake I have made..)...are the ones who are making the world such a desolate place in so many ways. You can't ever know how much this has hurt us because nobody EVER takes the time to look at things from any other perspective of the "I" and spends their whole life wasting time, attributing blame or equally stupidly ideas of being a good person, when all there ever is, is fleeting mistakes for everybody all the way. Start by seeing this in yourself, forgive yourself, and then you can forgive everyone and all that remains is a will to help and not a bogus fake wishy washy dualistic hipocritical one either. I've been spending years thinking myself a twat (which is sort of true) and sometimes thinking I'm dead clever for some reason and hoping someone might give me a badge. I no longer see myself in this way the 'I' has been cancelled out of that equation (more or less) and has become a apparition that is inherently part of much more, this does not stop any enjoyment in life in the slightest or anything else for that matter. (spooked yet?) I'm still making mistakes and learning though, but there is no more good and bad. I make mistakes but then I would do since I am my own mistakes and everybody elses too. This may seem preachy or boasty and not just peachy and toasty - but ask yourself - how can it be that it is wrong to preach when all knowledge is just an opinion that is there to serve the shared reality or not. Would suggest only opinions exist, no ? Reality itself is no opinion, opinion is inherent within it's infinite possibility and is as real as what is seen to be my text on the screen. Be angry if you want, be anything you want, believe in your gods if you want, just understand 'wanting'.. No, not 'oneting' ...'wan'...'ting'... Goodbye for now, no more bandwidth hogging posts from me, -- -- Mark S-D "Being detached from ideas and being without ideas are not the same state." - Sphere "Water which is too pure has no fish." - Ts'ai Ken T'an # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Sawaya Subject: (orbital) Re: (OT) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 30 Apr 2000 14:01:04 -0400 > Mark S-D discovered: > = >Start by seeing this in yourself, forgive yourself, and then you can = forgive everyone and all that >remains is a will to help, and not a = > bogus fake wishy washy dualistic hipocritical one either. > = =A0=A0 Excellent post Mark, sounds like you're doing some intensive = introspective and social philosophical work.=A0 For some reason it tends = to target us 'Marks' out, so it's interesting to see someone who's going = through the same stuff I have, with the same name =3D ).=A0 As for your = post, I agree with many of the points you made, was offended by none, = but I do think your perspective will tone down a little bit, know what I = mean? =A0=A0 As for the state capitolism and the West is in, it's important to = look at some of the potential causes, namely religion and science.=A0 = Religion because it has always (and I speak mainly of the western = Judeo-Christian trend) stressed individuality of man, homocentricity, = and a duality between man and nature.=A0 It has preached the importance o= f = "I", and it has ignored the results of this philosophy. Science is just as much a cause, but in a different manner.=A0 America ha= s = come to link science with technology, and has influenced the entire = planet with this tendency.=A0 Most people think that science is obviously= = and logically associated with technology, but it has only been this way = for 500 years.=A0 =A0=A0 Science has also generated the image of perfection and reason, = inherent in the 'scientific method'.=A0 This is also an illusion, as = science is used to the interest of whoever pays the scientists.=A0 In our= = case, these are the suppliers, the high-ranking on the capitolist = ladder, and they research how to give us new toys, or how to make our = food bigger and deadlier.=A0 They don't research effects their studies = have on the planet, or even the effect they have on people.=A0 That's the= = job of the government, which is supposed to protect us from the = corporations.=A0 Highly unlikely. Which brings us around to the effects of this state of mind.=A0 The most = obvious one is our destruction of the environment, our philosophy that = it is ours (given by God) to squander at will, and that we are = superior.=A0 How many scientists work towards solving problems that come = about by our pollution?=A0 You would think a great amount, but it's very = few because the scientists are 'owned' by the corporations that = pollute!=A0 These are the same corporations that control the media, and = that's why you can open up a newspaper (or turn on the news) and rarely = see a report on an environmental crisis.=A0 =A0=A0 This is certainly a crappy way to live, and I don't endorse it at = all.=A0 I'd like to hear differing opinions though, because I'm just a = college freshman soaking in the knowledge.=A0 I'd also like to hear from = Shannon, because he's a scientist and I want to know about the politics = of his studies.=A0 Thanks for the cool post, Mark! Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "paul kelleher" Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (OT) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 30 Apr 2000 21:26:26 +0100 > the western Judeo-Christian trend stressed individuality of man 'love thy neighbour'... 'treat others as they you'd expect them to treat you'. That's the whole difference between the old and new testaments, having a bit of consideration for others. > Most people think that science is obviously and logically associated with technology, but it has only been this way for 500 years. Science is associated with cold, proven fact. Before 500 years ago, it wasnt called science, and it amounted to an unambitious and bemused awe to the evidence of god's ways. Medieval 'science' sought no practical end and was based on untested assumptions and speculative theory. > This is also an illusion, as science is used to the interest of whoever pays the scientists. You talking about private research, which is usually more orientated towards commercial development of pre-existing knowledge. > They don't research effects their studies have on the planet, or even the effect they have on people. Thats not true, the bastards (commercial researches) always look in to the possiblilty of massive public liabilities before launching 'controversial' products. They size up the proballity, after that they don't give a shit. > our philosophy that it is ours (given by God) Was'nt that more the medieval thinking? It's commercial reality leads us to to squander at will. > are the same corporations that control the media, and that's why you can open up a newspaper (or turn on the news) and rarely see a report on an environmental crisis. I can't agree with that at all, just from observing the fickeleness of the media - look at how they have turned on Microsoft or even Montensato in the last few years. I don't know, maybe I'm just being cranky. I saw Phil Hartonal (gratutious boast) at homelands, Ireland, last night: I got back home here about two hours ago, and I'm coming down HARD. pAUL # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: (OT) News Article on Ecstacy Date: 01 May 2000 01:53:51 +0000 > > are the same corporations that control the media, and > that's why you can open up a newspaper (or turn on the news) and rarely > see a report on an environmental crisis. Well, in German Television you do!.. More frequently than in e.g. america i noticed!.. Environmental issues are rated pretty high here, for example we manually separate our waste for proper recycling and our Trashcans have been reduced in half the size, so whoever has MORE than 50l of trash in 2 weeks has to pay extra! 8) Also what mark s-d said is not true atleast for germany, we have quite some research going in the environmental field, from what i know Germany is leader worldwide in environmental technology! This is not meant to be propaganda for gemany or me saying we're the better people, i just wanted to show you that there's hope at the end of the horizon! ;-D Quite some other european countries are also environmentally aware or atleast developing in that area! When i was in America i noticed 2 things: -ULTRA EXTREME waste-generation... The family i stayed with used styrofoam plates and cups for their meals that just got thrown away after the meal!! That's completely NUTS! I was so upset when i saw this mindless generation of unnecessary waste, for the family this was perfectly normal!.. -Corporate America is THE driving force... You don't get any news on TV concerning environmental matters or even just foreign affairs cause the TV station is part of corporate america! Companies pay for the TV-spots -> TV-station needs to have the highest ratings possible -> TV-station only shows what appeals most to the masses: News about america itself, sensational TV-"reports", stupid game and talkshows where you can be a voyeur of others lives and films that are just directed at the lesser human instincts like sex, violence and the greed for entertainment.. It feeds off itself, the more you watch, the more you are led to believe that this is the only truth that there is, and the more people are turned into mindless slaves for corporate america!.. The Seattle "riots" came as a BIG surprise to me, let's just hope this resistance continues, with the current trend continuing either our planet or humanity as we know it will die within the next 30 years!.. All the capitalism is SHIT compared to a good chat with friends... no money in the world can pay for this! I just wish that people (also here in germany!) would stop and see what the REALLY important things in life are and pay the most attention to these!.. Fuck money.. wish it was never invented!.. DeeKay P.S.: Sorry if i wasn't totally on topic! <:-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Emile Sawaya Subject: (orbital) my radio show Date: 30 Apr 2000 20:10:45 -0400 (EDT) ok, late announcement, but my campus radio show, which you can listen to at www.wpi.edu/~radio, starts no (8pm EST), and I'm doing an all Orbital show. Come listen and stuff. yay! Marc Sawaya # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) my radio show Date: 01 May 2000 02:20:38 +0000 > ok, late announcement, but my campus radio show, which you can listen to > at www.wpi.edu/~radio, starts no (8pm EST), and I'm doing an all Orbital > show. Come listen and stuff. yay! > > Marc Sawaya > Whoa!.. Gotta love the little Spacecrafts that shoot the globe on that page! 8) Pretty irritating picture and certainly not positive! <:-) Whoever designed that page is ->way out! ;-) DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) my radio show Date: 01 May 2000 02:25:01 +0000 > ok, late announcement, but my campus radio show, which you can listen to > at www.wpi.edu/~radio, starts no (8pm EST), and I'm doing an all Orbital > show. Come listen and stuff. yay! > > Marc Sawaya > Mark, shame on you! >:-( Using Windows Media Player only!.. What about Shoutcast or even fucking realaudio??? I know... M$ is giving away their streaming server for free! >:-( Why doesn't real sue them for this i wonder?? Hello, hello... do we see any parallels to Netscape here? Anyway, shoutcast should be free, too afair... DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: (orbital) my radio show (final) Date: 01 May 2000 02:30:10 +0000 > ok, late announcement, but my campus radio show, which you can listen to > at www.wpi.edu/~radio, starts no (8pm EST), and I'm doing an all Orbital > show. Come listen and stuff. yay! > > Marc Sawaya Okay i tried... even threw on Win98s built-in IE just for you.. It said it didn't find some decompression program!.. Too bad!.. you lose! <:-) That's what happens when you support shit-companies like M$.. >:-( DeeKay 2 days left till G4-day! 8) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: deekay@mail.dfu.de Subject: Re: Re[2]: (orbital) my radio show (final) Date: 01 May 2000 04:51:14 +0000 > dmdd> Okay i tried... even threw on Win98s built-in IE just for you.. > dmdd> It said it didn't find some decompression program!.. > dmdd> Too bad!.. you lose! <:-) > dmdd> That's what happens when you support shit-companies like M$.. >:-( > > DeeKay, try upgrading Media Player from this URL: > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/download/Win32Otherx86.asp > > It's not that huge (3.5MB). That should fix your problems and you'll be > able to listen to WWPI even from Netscape (as I do). > Well, i refuse to make Realplayer updates unless the old one is a year old (DeeKay policy! 8) and i sure as hell will refuse M$-Updates just for the sake of boycotting M$... Sorry for you radio-show! <:-) > I have a show on WWPI right before Marc's (6 to 8pm), so I can speak for > the station a little. You see, our problem is the lack of people with > the skill that are willing to involve in the radio station. Whoever was > the technical manager for the radio station, decided to only set up the > Windows Streaming server. I suppose that he either didn't know better > or couldn't get anything else to work or simply decided that it was > sufficient. > And THAT'S the wrong thinking!.. Just using M$ just because one is not willing to try something else is the wrong kinda thinking!.. That's what made them so big and caused the mess we're in right now! > But really, it's not that bad of a technology, for a 24kbps mono stream, > it sounds good. What's bad is that you can't listen to it in anything > other than Windows. > Yeah, pretty cool for a Webpage that is supposed to be viewed on any platform, huh! 8) The Mac users on the list will be grateful!... And i bet both RA (yuck!) and Shoutcast sound just as good if not better!.. > I just got my show on WWPI five weeks ago, so I haven't had much time to > help out or get things straight. I think Marc is going to try to set up > a ShoutCast server next academic year (starting in September) instead or > in addition to the current Windows Streaming Media server. ShoutCast, as > far as I know, is free. > Cool thing! 8) That's the spirit! ;-D > RealAudio server unfortunately isn't free, so unless someone is willing > to put money into that (and people aren't at all willing to put money > into our college station), it's not likely to go up. > Ofcourse, that point is valid... that's why i'm waiting for Real to sue M$ just like Netscape did! >:-) Cause some more headache with the shitheads there! ;-D > But seriously, try upgrading the Windows Media Player, maybe it'll work. > No fuckin way! ;-D I won't ever install a M$ product unless i absolutely have to!.. DeeKay # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orbital" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orbital@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. # Orbital discography: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo-bin/discogs?orbital