From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #335 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, April 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 335 In this issue: - Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Theater of Musical Optics jco Re: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Wanted: Torture Garden vinyl Cecil Taylor in Berlin Cecil Taylor question David S. Ware Goodies = Miles + Throbbing a late 20-odd Torture Garden Vinyl/Painkiller Greg Cohen - Way Low Paraphrase Re: soviet/russian improv ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:15:32 +0100 From: Dan Given Subject: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Scott Handley and Brian Olewnick wrote: >>I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did >>recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same >>multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same" >>and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank >>are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I >>was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo >>trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the >>highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick >>pony.] >Mmmmm...you're treading on dangerous ground with many listeners, but...I >agree! Dixon's one of those I know I'm _supposed_ to think is great, but >I've yet to hear it. WKCR used to have a semi-regular program devoted to >his work and, more often than not, I'd come away not overly impressed. >Like you, though, I've haven't yet heard 'Vade Mecum' and have been >meaning to give it a try. You're dead-on about McPhee too. For all the >relatively high amount of publicity he's gotten in the last year or two, >Joe remains one of the great under-appreciated players around. The Oxley disc is on my want list, so I don't know what Dixon's contribution is to it. I do, however, have both volumes of Vade Mecum and love them. I find Dixon quite interesting on these, but highlight is the overall sound. There are times when I am unsure just who is doing what. Though you may not like Dixon as a player, I think that these discs may shed new light in him as a composer/conceptualist. >> PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to >anybody; >>though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, >well-executed, >>because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or >>"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the >>occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing >>ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the >>whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've >>heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor >>since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES. >How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to >PORTRAITS? >Actually, PORTRAITS is the one (?) large-scale Guy work I haven't >gotten to. As I posted earlier, I think THEORIA is incredible; it >absolutely floored me when I first heard it about a year ago. HARMOS >is almost as good. The recent THREE PIECES FOR ORCHESTRA is very fine >as are ODE (from 1972) and the ZURICH CONCERTS (in which the LJCO >performs pieces by Guy and Braxton). All of these are on Intakt. Last >year's WITCH GONG GAME II/10 (on Maya) seems to me somewhat less >successful, though not bad. I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west coast players? This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away. As for the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though. On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live. Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:22:56 -0500 From: Phil Plencner Subject: Theater of Musical Optics > Roger Langvik wrote: > Wich is :"MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUND -- > MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME" > > This info is from theTheatre of musical optics web page (it's a history > lesson of sorts and I have actually mannaged to forget the address > so...don't ask :-) ) > > Roger > That web page address is: http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/zorn-ToMO.html Phil - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:16:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Cappy D'Angelo" Subject: jco Speaking of JCOA, is the "Jazz Composers Orchestra" album (the one with a track featuring Pharoah Sanders at maximum intensity) still available? If so, who distributes it (in Canada)? Someone played it for me a few years ago (on vinyl) but I've never seen it for sale. Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 08:58:06 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Dan Given wrote: > I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west > coast players? Yes it is and you're probably right, that could explain the less-than-inspired sound of the session. > This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much > of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington > composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have > yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the > band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally > written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away. IMHO, the piece with Crispell and the straight orchestra one work wonderfully, fitting in nicely with the best of Guy's recent work. The track with Maggie Nichols I find a bit more problematic, but I admit to being ill at ease with many free vocalists. > As for > the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge > Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same > reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode > as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much > more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos > are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though. > > On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large > ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not > quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are > poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live. Yeah, though I've never caught him live, I've checked in on his work off and on for around twenty years and have never heard anything particularly compelling. If anyone would care to recommend any large-ensemble stuff of his they think is great, please do. I had high expectations for last year's trio w/ George Lewis and Bertram Turetsky but was somewhat disappointed (though it garnered great reviews in some quarters). Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:11:46 -0700 From: "Dave" Subject: Wanted: Torture Garden vinyl I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately as not to clutter the list. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:26:25 -0800 From: George Grella Subject: Cecil Taylor in Berlin Now that I'm home I'm reviewing the Cecil Taylor in Berlin recordings that have been discussed and wanted to mention my own subjective take on what are the best of a truly indispensable bunch: "Spots, Circles and Fantasy" w/Han Bennink "Pleistozean Mit Wasser" w/Derek Bailey. This is really superb, surprising at first because there is no piano for a long while at the start, Taylor chanting while Bailey plays, and it works great. "Leaf Palm Hand" w/Tony Oxley. If you know the Feel Trio, you know how these two play together. "Erzulie Maketh Scent" solo. On par with the best later solo recordings like Garden and For Olim. "Regalia" w/Paul Lovens. "Alms/Tiergarten (Spree)" w/orchestra. The others include Gunter Sommer, Louis Moholo and Honsinger/Parker, which are all fine but don't stand out as much as the ones I've listed, IMO. gg - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 12:46:30 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Cecil Taylor question I recently rediscovered the insert in the sleeve of the Unit Core release of SPRING OF TWO BLUE-J'S. It mentions two pending releases (including cover shots): INDENT II (solo, I think, from the same concert as INDENT) and CECIL TAYLOR UNIT CORE ENSEMBLE, also recorded at Antioch with an ensemble of student musicians. As far as I know, neither has ever seen the light of day. Anyone out there know otherwise? Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:51:50 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: David S. Ware I think this quartet is one of the best working groups of the decade, and you can't really go wrong with any purchase. That having been said, I'd snap up the other releases on DIW ("Earthquation", "Flight of i", "Third Ear Recitation") before they go out of print. Jason Bivins - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:09:23 -0500 From: Paul Chavez Subject: Goodies = Miles + Throbbing TG influenced by Miles my friends (see 20 Jazz Funk Greats) ... not the other way around. Excuse the confusion. As for Pangea and Agharta, they are next on my list. Paul - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:10:16 -0700 From: tricky88@earthlink.net Subject: a late 20-odd LATE: But considering the list=92s reactions to these, I doubt anyone wil= l mind. I WAS pissed b/c this blew up the traffic on the list; I=92m just now catching up and still have 25 digests to get through. I was ignoring the idea, but something about Doug McKay=92s list in particular made me realize this has nothing to do with BEST records, but the things it would be oh so difficult to live without. In my case these are the records that on first listen destroyed my perception of a genre, or simply turned my life upside-down. The first chord of each floods my memory. No order... - Mark Mauer Tappa Zukie - In Dub - Blood & Fire (Some of the most riveting 70s dub Ive heard) Guided By Voices - Under the Bushes, Under the Stars - Matador=20 (Sincere? as a heart attack.) Pixies - Doolittle - 4AD=20 Pavement - Slanted & Enchanted - Matador (every song shoulda been a Top 40 hit) John Zorn - Elegy - Eva / 99 Records (NOT an obligatory choice, though after hearing David Slusser=92s amazing disc, I think he should get co-billing on this one.) Harris / Laswell - Sominic Flux - Subharmonic (Spookiest thing Ive ever heard) Alec Empire - Generation Star Wars - Mille Plateaux (Spookiest thing with beats Ive ever heard) Replacements - Pleased to Meet Me - Reprise Didjits - Hey Judester - Touch & Go (In concert they had Satan introduce them) Wonder Stuff - Hup! - PLG (Joyous heartbreaks) Manic Street Preachers - Generation Terrorists (UK 18 song edition) - Sony (No Aplogies for this one, it's playing as I write this) Underworld - Second Toughest in the Infants - Wax Trax! Wesley Willis - Fireman Rick - Wesley Willis Records (Bought from Wesley at Delilah's: Mostly to keep him from headbutting my girlfriend and me) Las Vegas Grind - various artists - Crypt (FILTHY 50s rock and roll. Thank God Crypt rescued these songs) Wilco - Being There - Reprise (The only double CD!)=20 Swamp Terrorists - Grim Stroke Disease - Machinery (The loudest record I'd ever heard at the time)=20 Miles Davis - In Person Saturday Night Vol. 2 - Columbia (Opened up a whole new world for me) Big Star - Third / Sister Lovers - Ryko (Should be playing at my funeral) REM - Reckoning - IRS=20 American Music Club - Everclear - Alias Bauhaus - Press the Eject, Give me the Tape - Beggars Banquet Sinead O=92Connor - Lion and The Cobra - Chrysalis (heartbreaking) Robyn Hitchcock - I Often Dream of Trains - Midnight Fish Lutefisk - Deliver from Porcelin: Theme and Variations - Bong Load (Folks into Mr. Bungle might find this band of real interest: Other album is called Burn in Hell Fuckers) Screamin Jay Hawkins - Voodoo Jive - Rhino Sorely Missing: Ministry, Nirvana, Wedding Present, Beck, Prince, most Digital Hardcore, Mo Wax and Tzadik recrods, Birthday Party, Beastie Boys, Ink Spots, World Party, Tom Waits, Nick Drake, Aphex Twin, Lou Barlow, Swans, Impala, Coltrane, and the list goes on. Also videos of Withnail & I, Naked and Pee-Wee=92s Big Adventure Books: Dictionary of the Khazars, Nine Stories, and any William T. Vollman. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:07:34 -0500 From: Howie Voigt Subject: Torture Garden Vinyl/Painkiller Dave wrote: > > I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be > in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can > trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately > as not to clutter the list. I am not willing to sell mine but I know someone in the UK who has one for sale. I believe it is brand new and in very good condition but she wants 15pounds for it. This is the Earache UK release, a very nice looking gatefold LP. The US shimmy disc(?) release might be cheaper but I don't know where to look for one. I have seen one once and I believe this version is gatefold as well. If you, or anyone is interested mail me for her email address. I have dealt with her many times before, and although expensive, she is very reliable. Finally, I have two Painkiller CDs I would like to trade: Rituals Live in Japan Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88627 Execution Ground 3CD Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88731~3 I am willing to trade for CDs/Vinyl by the following bands: Univers Zero Shub-Niggurath (the prog. band) Anglagard Landberk Osamu Kitajima (earlier recordings) Anekdoten ...other stuff you think I might like based on this Or 80's metal such as: (especially vinyl, but CD is good too:) Possessed Candlemass Sodom Destruction Dark Angel Kreator (Flag of Hate MLP only) Celtic Frost Bathory ...other bands, tell me what you have/can get I will also consider trades for earlier and harder to find modern Death Metal stuff. For example between '88-'93, especially 7"s and demos. Cheers! Howie (buurin@athenet.net) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:26:56 -0500 From: Dan Hewins Subject: Greg Cohen - Way Low I know someone on this list is going to pick this up (if it's not already owned) so I'll put in a request for a review. Thanks, Dan - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:45:01 -0400 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Paraphrase I caught Paraphrase last night at the Emanuel Church in Boston. I've been a fan of Tim Berne for quite a while now (ever since I heard 'Snactified Dreams' which is still my favorite) so I was super-excited to be there after skipping all of my classes on Friday trying to organize the trip. It was, shall I say, intimate (with only 25 or so people there) and I was right up close. I thought the show was very good. I think Berne's real strength is in his composing so Paraphrase being a free improv unit, that was obviously just not there. There's a lot of Berne's composing style in his improvised lines though. I thought Tom Rainey was the stand-out. It's amazing the amount of intensity he can mull up using brushes while remaining relatively soft. He and Drew Gress had some pretty great interactions. Good show! By the way, I found two Berne JMT discs at the Tower Records in Cambridge the next morning - Miniature 'I Can't Put my Finger On It' and Caos Totale 'Nice View'. I picked both of them up (though 'Diminutive Mysteries' is still there). Anyway, for those of you still looking to find JMT stuff, I recommend a big store like Tower that has a ton in-stock. They are still out there! Good luck! -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:17:24 +0300 (WET) From: Vadim Marmer Subject: Re: soviet/russian improv i have "Catalogue" and "Poco-a-Poco" by Ganelin Trio and both records are just amazing. if you like free jazz it`s the best of this kind of music. wonderful performances, all members of the band are multi-insrumentalists, and sometimes you just can not believe that what you hear is a live trio, wonderful compositions - today Ganelin is the head of jazz department in israel musical academy. On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > Something I can't remember seeing discussed on this list is the > apparently-fertile Russian/Soviet/Eastern-bloc music of the past, say > twenty-odd years. Maybe it's because most of you know about as little > as I do about it all. Leo Records had to SMUGGLE shit out and release > it with disclaimers (basically implying, for the sake of the artists, > that they had STOLEN the tapes). Some records I'm interested in > investing-in include: > *Anything by Ganelin/Ganelin Trio > *8 CD Soviet Eighties box set > *4 CD Sergey Kuryokhin box > *4 CD Soviet Jazz Festival: CONSPIRACY box, 1989 > *etc. (I picked the famous stuff) > > I'd appreciate suggestions and comments and new names, and info about > other releases, of course. And feel free to e.mail me privately unless > you think it would be of interest to the list. > > Thanks! > > Scott > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > > - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #335 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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