From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #386 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, June 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 386 In this issue: - Re: Re: Re[4]: intellectualism, doh!/Pelt Re: Recent George Clinton live shows Re: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god Re: Recent George Clinton live shows Re: Pelt Re: Pelt David Shea vs. Andre Popp RE: Public Image RE: Public Image Re: David Shea vs. Andre Popp Andre Popp Re: Recent George Clinton live shows Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes' Re: Recent George Clinton live shows Re: R'n'B / Soul Books George Clinton live Re: Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes' Re: Fripp thinks he is a god (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:39:11 EDT From: Subject: Re: Re: Re[4]: intellectualism, doh!/Pelt On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > I take it you're referring to > the Kabbala and certain forms of Islam and Buddhism. Life is short > and, being a non-soulist, I don't look forward to an infinite period > of study after death! Sorry, don't mean to resurrect this thread but one of the main tenants of (orthodox) Buddhism is that there is no soul. Okay, can somebody tell me more about Pelt. Just theother day I saw their recordong listed in Forcedexposure and it said they were from the D.C. area. I live in the D.C. area and I never heard of them. Please, somebody tell me more. I'm very curious. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:51:27 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows Bernie and Bootsy wrote a lot of the classics with George so it is pretty telling not having them around. BUT... George was the mastermind (Maggot Overlord) behind P-Funk nevertheless. I've seen P-Funk twice- two or three years ago (Palladium) and again around the beginning of the '90's (Ritz). Hampton is a great player (bandleader?) esp. decked out in a diaper. Both shows clocked in at over 3 hours- I was pretty f-ing exhausted at both and actually couldn't make it through one of them. Great music, great show but from the clips I've seen of the ol' P-Funk mob, they were clearly the better group. Still, if you haven't witnessed them and you're curious, you really owe it to yourself to check out P-Funk. Favorite albums of theirs: Maggot Brain (Eddie Hazel's the man), Standing on the Verge of Getting It On, One Nation Under A Groove. Uncle Jam Wants You and Let's Take It To the Stage are worth hearing too. Any compilation you can find of their early LP's is manna. I remember two on Westbound from '75 and '77 and I'm sure there's some CD's out there like that. Did somebody say the TAGO MAGO was one of the greatest rock albums ever? Give that man a cigar!!! Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:59:39 -0700 From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god >In a message dated 98-06-04 19:00:47 EDT, you write: > ><< Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like > Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement > was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices, > or cameras allowed. >> > >Dave, was this the Cleveland show on Tuesday? I considered going, but after >hearing the Projekt 2 CD, I couldn't think of anything that left me >more....unimpressed and opinionless. It did absolutely nothing at all for me. > Yeah, it was the Cleveland show on Tuesday. I liked it a lot. Lots of great improv and Belew looked like a kid with a brand new toy playing his V drum. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:10:01 -0500 From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows ><interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...>> > >Never got much out of this one. It's the one early Funkadelic album that's a >failure in my eyes. AARRRGGGGH! NO! _America Eats Its Young_ was the first P-Funk I purchased - it was in a cut-out bin for a buck at a TG&Y (ca. 1976), so I figured "what th' fark"... and have never regretted it. While it doesn't have the acid-fueled inspiration of _Maggot Brain_ or the sharp focus of _Cosmic Slop_ (Eddie Hazel's kinda in retrograde for the whole 2 lp's), it features a smoother facet of the Funkadelic jewel - you can read it in hindsight as a prototype for the revised/revived Parliament that followed. Tons of string arrangements and the briliant country-soul synthesis of "Biological Speculation" - that pedal steel soaring over a shuffling funk groove lacerated my teenage brain the first time I heard it - the album's still a favorite from the P-Funk canon... Jon M. FATE, Discorporated - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Pelt On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 Nastifyer@aol.com wrote: > Okay, can somebody tell me more about Pelt. Just theother day I saw their > recordong listed in Forcedexposure and it said they were from the D.C. area. I > live in the D.C. area and I never heard of them. Please, somebody tell me > more. I'm very curious. pelt is a great band. i've played on several bills with them, so i've seen them in action quite a few times. they started out in richmond va. playing noisey rock not too disparate from '80s style sonic youth. they released a split 7inch with another richmond band, damn near red, before morphing into a all-guitar trio. i'm not sure what happened to their drummer, but their old bassist, joe lives in falls church now. for awhile pelt were more of a blacksburg, va. band, with mike and jack both living in down in appalachia. now, i think jack lives in philadelphia, mike lives not too far from blacksburg and pat still lives in richmond. i'm not sure why the vhf press release claimed they were a d.c. band. they can hardly get shows here (although they were requested by thurston to open for sonic youth here @ the 9:30 club in may). sonically, the current band aspires to essential pure-sound touchstones like glen branca, popol vuh and terry riley. amassed droning guitars and tribal percussion. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:32:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Pelt On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > pelt is a great band. i've played on several bills with them, so i've What and with whom do you play? It's good to se other DC musicians on the list. > sonically, the current band aspires to essential pure-sound touchstones like > glen branca, popol vuh and terry riley. amassed droning guitars and > tribal percussion. This sounds worth looking into. Can you recommend any recordings? - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:56:50 -0700 From: xander@sirius.com Subject: David Shea vs. Andre Popp I'm beginning to really hate it when I discover the sources of samples. Picked up the reissue of Andr=E9 Popp's "Delirium in Hi-Fi", and promptly noticed that "La Polka du Colonel" sounds rather familiar. Or rather, about 15 seconds of it does. As looped into one of the pieces on Shea's "Prisoner". When I hear just how much further the original piece goes beyond those 10 or 15 seconds, I really don't think that I want to hear Shea's butchery of it again. Not to pick on Shea in particular (though he chose to mention many of his inspirations on the Prisoner liner notes, no mention is given for the arranger of this rather distinctive sample)...and in fact, I'm still quite a fan of Shea, but I've been experiencing this form of disillusionment quite often lately. But rather, I meant to say that Andre Popp is my new hero. Twisted orchestral arrangements of chansons. Backwards, sped up and slowed down, and a host of other tricks, including some rather impressive "three dimensional sound" for 1957 and for being in mono, goodness me. Something like a Jacques Tati soundtrack on a mild hallucinogen. Alexander Radio Khartoum. http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 00:41:27 GMT From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: RE: Public Image Now that I"ve been enticed by reading the list of artists three or four times -- I missed the original that listed what CD we're talking about....this is a brand new PIL or what? Thanks - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:28:18 -0700 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: RE: Public Image At 12:41 AM 6/6/98 GMT, Al T wrote: >Now that I"ve been enticed by reading the list of artists three or four times -- >I missed the original that listed what CD we're talking about....this is a brand >new PIL or what? It was originally released in 1986 as "Album" and it is now available as "Compact Disc" and "Cassette." Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: David Shea vs. Andre Popp . > >But rather, I meant to say that Andre Popp is my new hero. Twisted >orchestral arrangements of chansons. Backwards, sped up and slowed down, >and a host of other tricks, including some rather impressive "three >dimensional sound" for 1957 and for being in mono, goodness me. Something >like a Jacques Tati soundtrack on a mild hallucinogen. > >Alexander > >This sounds really interesting! Could you supply us with some >information. What label is Andre Popp on, and is it still in print? - ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books - ---------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:02:44 -0700 From: xander@sirius.com Subject: Andre Popp The reissue CD is on Basta (Germany, but distributed by Sony), and I found it yesterday at both Amoeba and Rasputin in Berkeley, so it's got to be pretty available. Look in the lounge/cocktail section wherever you are. Alexander Radio Khartoum. http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 01:08:02 GMT From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows While you're out gettin' Up for the Down Stroke and such get the Axiom funk collection Funkcronium (with lots of our favorite folks) and Clinton's recent TAPOAFwhatever. Both are relatively current and both totally kick butt! Ditto on recent live shows! I think its misleading to forcus on whether Bernie or Bootsie or whoever is or isn't playing at the moment. Clinton to me parallels Altman's film making. He gets good ensemble players and give them time and space to work out and sometimes it all hangs together and other times it doesn't. It's not a meaningful critique of Players to point out that Warren Beatty and Julie Christie aren't in it. Nor is it to point out that Players and McCabe look different. You should never cook the same minestrone twice. In a Clinton concert, all moments and individuals might not be total jamming but you're not gonna nod-off and the odds of hitting a number of those critical transcendent moments in the 4 hour show are *extremely* good. Folks drift on and off the stage, combine in various mannners, throw off a few riffs, or do a protracted solo workout on Maggot Brain, or suddenly all show up and chant for 30 minutes about whomping you upside the head. Sometimes it's falling apart and sometimes it's falling together. Who can ask for more? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 98 13:30:28 -0500 From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes' Does anyone know of this apparently new release of Guy's on, I believe, the Japanese Eva label, either regarding its availability or substance? Thanks, Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:56:29 -0500 From: Rusty Crump Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows >I think its misleading to forcus on whether Bernie or Bootsie or whoever is or >isn't playing at the moment. Clinton to me parallels Altman's film making. He >gets good ensemble players and give them time and space to work out and >sometimes it all hangs together and other times it doesn't. It's not a >meaningful critique of Players to point out that Warren Beatty and Julie >Christie aren't in it. Nor is it to point out that Players and McCabe look >different. You should never cook the same minestrone twice. In a Clinton >concert, all moments and individuals might not be total jamming but you're not >gonna nod-off and the odds of hitting a number of those critical transcendent >moments in the 4 hour show are *extremely* good. Folks drift on and off the >stage, combine in various mannners, throw off a few riffs, or do a protracted >solo workout on Maggot Brain, or suddenly all show up and chant for 30 minutes >about whomping you upside the head. Sometimes it's falling apart and sometimes >it's falling together. Who can ask for more? > >- Generally, I think this is accurate, but with the addendum that sometimes you do want to use the exact same recipe for the minestrone. The difference is that it might be a meal cooked for a lover the first time, showing off for one's parents (who never really came to grips with the idea that their kid grew up) another time, cooking a big batch for a dinner party a third time.... etc. The recipe remains the same, but the minestrone IS different each time by virtue of the difference in context. How this metaphor applies to live musical performances would seem to me to be obvious, so I won't belabor the point. But it is worth pointing out that using the same recipe IN THE SAME CONTEXT over and over is a Bad Thing. So bands that play the same set list night after night, to the same audience which travels around following the band... well, what's the use in that? It's like going to the same restaurant every night and eating the same red snapper dish each time. I won't even begin to address bands like the Dead, the Panic and Phish, for whom the context remains (or remained) very similar from night to night. I only hope they change/d the recipe for the minestrone every night. Or even switched to rogan josh, or collards and cornbread, or pho and bun bi. Dang. Now I'm hungry. Point being, as far as live music goes, context/atmosphere/audience can make the minestrone different, as can using a different recipe. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:38:54 +0100 From: Phil Subject: Re: R'n'B / Soul Books The one book you DO need is the superb "Funk, the music the people and the rhythm of the one" by Rickey Vincent, published by St.Martin's Griffin (US) in 1996. you should be able to get it from amazon.com. It has a foreward by George Clinton, an excellent discography, some top photos & a pretty comprehensive history of funk music. I keep going back to it for reccomendations. Wonderful stuff. A new history of P-Funk has aso just been published - can't remember the name of it, but amazon have it too & there's a load of information about it on the P-Funk web site at http://www.gnofn.org/~1nation/begin.html. Haven't read it yet, but it looks promising. Phil Clarkson (a true funkateer) phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk >From: BJOERN >Subject: book on black music?? > >is there any good book available that focuses on black music .... >i am most interested in RnB/Soul focusing books... > >BJOERN - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:52:25 +0100 From: Phil Subject: George Clinton live I saw George & the P-Funk All Stars live last Sunday in London, their second appearance in town this year. They were better in January, but are still well worth 3 or 4 hours worth of anyone's time, in my opinion. Usually, the All-Stars include Gary Shider, Mike "Kidd Funkadelic" Hampton, Amp Fiddler, Blackbyrd McKnight, Billy "Bass" Nelson amongst a cast of thousands. Sadly last week, Mike Hampton & Gary Shider were missing, but the glorious Belita Woods did show - she, more than anyone, has energised recent P-Funk recordings, I reckon - she has a stunning voice. Also appearing: George's granddaughter, LaShonda, who does a hilarious rap about dope, Rodney Skeet Davis on bass, a fabulous 3 piece horn section featuring Greg Thomas, who did that legendary scat vocal on Knee Deep. Previous shows have also featured the very silly Louie "Babblin" Kabbabie, P-Funk's own Sgt Bilko lookalike, George's son Trey Lewd and sometimes Chaka Khan shows & shakes her thang. Go & see them, you'll laugh, you'll get to shake your booty & you get to see some glorious fret mangling & horn work. Bootsy is hitting London in July with a stunning line-up featuring Bernie Worrell, Fred Wesley, Catfish & a load of old P-Funk alumni. Guess who has front-row seats? And for those who dissed "America Eats Its Young", dont forget that it features Bootsy's first appearance with the Funk Mob, the classic Loose Booty, and the gobsmacking A Joyful Process, which features a drumbreak to rival James Brown's Funky Drummer and some glorious clavinet work from Bernie Worrell. It's worth buying for Pedro Bell's cover alone. Just my 2p worth.... Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:57:09 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes' On Fri, 05 Jun 98 13:30:28 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > Does anyone know of this apparently new release of Guy's on, I > believe, the Japanese Eva label, either regarding its availability or > substance? The true title is: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 053 - ALTERED LANDSCAPES: AMERICAN MUSIC BACHARACH TO CAGE: Guy Klucevsek Music by Amy Denio, Charlie Haden, Burt Bacharach, Henry Cowell, John Cage, Alvin Lucier, Alan Hovhaness, Guy Klucevsek. 1998 - Evva (Japan/Europe), ??? (CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ It is out in Europe according to Guy Klucevsek. No idea when it will be available here. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 14:21:26 -0700 (PDT) From: a rancid amoeba Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god (fwd) The Zorn list mailer upchucks on Ray's email address, so I'm forwarding this for him. chanel - ----- Forwarded message from Ray Peck ----- Fripp's problem with people recording his concerts has nothing to do with money. He's written numerous times on this topic, including an essay which he wrote years ago, I believe for Musician magazine, and which is available on the web (check the Elephant Talk archives). His reasons have to do with being "in the moment" at the performance, and the energy that an audience which is "in the moment" lends to the musicians and to Music with a capital M. His argument is that someone recording the show does not have their energy aligned with the performance, but rather is concerned about the tape, is thinking about tape levels, and isn't paying the strict attention that they might if they didn't know that they'd be able to listen to the show again tomorrow on their Walkman. And that this keeps that audience member, and perhaps others around them, from helping the music in some tangible yet perhaps also metaphysical way. Being a heavy show taper, I agree with him from direct experience. When I am recording a show, I am in a different place than when I am not. Also, having attended a Guitar Craft Level One course at which I was in fairly close contact with Robert for 6 days I can say with as near certainty as one can speak of another's inner workings that the things he does do not come from "egotism" or even egoism, but rather from the strongly held belief that he is driven to do whatever is best for Music (again, with a capital M), often at great expense to him personally. - ----- End of forwarded message from Ray Peck ----- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.arancidamoeba.com/ rancid@best.com r e c o r d l a b e l s o n t h e w e b future home of a rancid amoeba records - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #386 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com