From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #672 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 672 In this issue: - Re: more cheap CD site information New Yorker interview Soup Re: more cheap CD site information Re: more cheap CD site information Soup: Again Re: more cheap CD site information Re: more cheap CD site information suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) Re: New Yorker interview Re: Soup: Again Parachute ESP again? Re: Soup: Again Re: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:25:53 -0400 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:15:14 +0200 "Stephane Vuilleumier" wrote: > > > > I know about Zorn, but who's Ricky Martin? > > Does he also get "New Yorker" interviews? > > I was also puzzled by that name. I never heard it before going to the > Victoriaville festival, and, on my way back to the States almost > every magazine had "Ricky Martin" on their first page! > > He is a singer who currently has a big hit. In addition, Ricky Martin is an ex-member of the pop/R&B group Menudo whose members are kicked out when they reach a certain age (18 or so) and are replaced by younger talent. This way, the project is a constant flux of dreamy teen sensations! It almost seems a parody of the commercial music industry, but Menudo is for real. listening to: Parker/Guy/Lytton - Imaginary Values (Maya) -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:05:39 -0700 From: Herb Levy Subject: New Yorker interview I've got to agree with Brian on this. After reading the interview instead of just glancing through it at the newsstand, for the most part it's pretty basic (without providing the rules for Cobra). I also agree that the article by Eyes Wide Shut screenwriter Frederic Raphael is very interesting (probably moreso than the Zorn interview). & I'd forgotten that for subscribers to the New Yorker, time sort of disappears, so I didn't describe the cover. In case your a VERY long time subscriber & the previous description didn't help, it's the recent William Steig drawing. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:08:18 EDT From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Soup has anyone here heard any artists on the Soup label? i heard a lot of hype about the relatively new label's existence, but i was rather dissappointed by most of what i heard. (i bought a soup disc sampler) however, there are some fairly innovative musicians ..using more bizzare textures and sonically rich sounds in electronic music (which is , i might add, the foundation of the label). i guess electronic music now seems to bore me more often than not. but, i still think there are interesting things being done, and i won't give up looking. ben - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:19:34 EDT From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information In a message dated 6/8/99 1:10:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rizzi@netcom.com writes: > I have...took about 8 days. All seemingly > legit releases...though the low price > doesn't bode well for the artists actually > getting their cut. Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. - -Jody - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:38:06 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:19:34 EDT IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/8/99 1:10:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rizzi@netcom.com > writes: > > > I have...took about 8 days. All seemingly > > legit releases...though the low price > > doesn't bode well for the artists actually > > getting their cut. > > Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of > CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you assuming that the label sells them to the distributors below price? At $5 the record, you can be sure that almost no money is made once manufacturing costs and other are paid... I am, of course, talking about small labels which press 1000 copies. The big guys could afford to go down, although their running costs are high (and their stockholders might wonder about such altruistic trend :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:46:17 EDT From: KruciFly@aol.com Subject: Soup: Again oops...i left out in my last Soup ramblings, it's a japanese based label and artists. ben - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:44:25 EDT From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information This joint is a loss leader sales site. The object is to run sales up in order to turn the company over. This has nothing do with artist royalties as this company buys from one-stops and the major distribution companies. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:12:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul Audino Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Are you sure? I thought artists get their royalties based on the number of > > CDs sold (shipped), regardless of how much a retailer sells them for. Artists are paid for CDs sold, not CDs shipped. There is a world of difference between the two terms. Sold refers to a purchase by the end user, not the retailer. Artists are not paid for promo copies or cut-outs. > Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you assuming > that the label sells them to the distributors below price? CDs are usually sold to retailers for around $11-13, maybe a little more as CD prices here in America continue to skyrocket. I'm guesing that the "$4.95, limit 5" site is selling the discs as a massive loss leading promotion. In other words, they are losing money on eacha nd every disc that they sell in the hope that you'll develop some sort of loyalty to the site and return to purchase full-price items in the future. I would imagine that the artists are still getting paid, in fact I'm almost certain of it. Labels (and publishers, etc.) tend to really frown upon loss leaders. They believe that the promotions and price wars hurt retailers in the long run by a) forcing smaller companies out of business and b) devaluing the products being sold. After all, if you can buy a book for 50% off retail or a CD for $5, why would you want to pay full price for it? And then, once the promotion ends, you'll simply go looking for the best deal elsewhere. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:28:28 GMT From: Scott Handley Subject: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) I've found the Zornlist to be a really friendly place, with great "advice", almost like a suggestive map of strange new territory, even if that "strange" territory is some subverted familiar, like, say, Caetano Veloso. I haven't seen anything more than a joke about off-topic-ness in months, I think. This is a good thing. We trace eraseable boundaries that actually serve as nothing more than a description of what's possible. Now----ahhh! Now that I'm done patting my own back I can type faster. I don't know if it would be a lost cause to make "suggested records" a FAQ, w/ taste subjective and all, but it seems we get a fair number of newbies (not a good word, by the way, for a list where punks can get into Mauricio Kagel and Dumitrescu and jazzbos or avant-guardians can learn about Napalm Death or Meshuggah) whose primary exposure is Naked City, Sonic Youth, punk, etc. While these folks bring an amazing quality to the list, they might be well-served by a semi-standard FAQ listing some must-have records by some of the "luminaries", or labels at least. For instance, I would direct a bebop/freebop fan to Masada. And I would direct all kinds of people to the LJCO, or Evan Parker, or maybe Joe McPhee, who is bad-ass. It would serve as a less "bewildering" introduction, and perhaps brief descriptions from list members could be ore helpful than promo gush. Anyway, I'd be interested to know what ya'll think. Now, to KruciFly's question: 1.) Have you checked out Masada? Bad-ass! 2.) Amazing Canadian composer/saxist Jean Derome can be seen as the Quebecois answer to Zorn, but he isn't nearly as recognized. I mean the _Penguin Guide_ snubs him! Crazy! I like his band Dangereux Zhoms, which might be akin to Naked City, in some superficial and essential ways (the pomo layers and jumpcuts, but slower). They have a 3-CD box which is fine, though all are available separately. Derome also has an album of "ballet" music, rather quiet, called LA BETE, which I adore. He is brilliant. A whole circle of brilliant improvisor-composers surrounds him, based in Montreal (??). A frequent collaborator is the brilliant, sick guitarist Rene Lussier, who has a great duo record w/ turntable sicko Martin Tetreault. All these records are on the nifty Ambiances Magnetiques label (www.cam.org/~dame_cd). 3.) If you like Sonic Youth, perhaps you would enjoy Thurston Moore's free improv records w/ and w/out William Hooker? Or his brand new trio record w/ amazing saxophonist Evan Parker, who turns the tenor and soprano saxophones into columns of fluid sentient vines? One of my favorite Evan Parker records, and a great way in, would be 50th BIRTHDAY CONCERT, a 2CD free-improv "masterpiece". Or the trio record BREATHS AND HEARTBEATS, which is absolutely fantastic, IMHO. 4.) Gyorgy Ligeti, Kryzstof Penderecki, Iancu Dumitrescu, and Bela Bartok have all written "concert" music for large and small ensembles that really cooks. The two EMI "Matrix"-series releases for Penderecki are huge insane oceans of sound and timbre, ranging from the inauduble to the deafening. A lot of it scares me. A bargain trip to hell. 5.) Peter Brotzmann also seems to know something about hell. A tenor-playing harbinger of doom and R&B, known for his all-out 1968 assault, MACHINE GUN. I like his Die Like a Dog Quartet, which really slips into a strange kind of "groove". Definitely free improv. I was so blown away by his duo w/ drummer Andrew Cyrille in Atlanta, I was screaming. (Charles Mingus' reaction to seeing the Ellington band for the first time, BTW...) 6.) I love Tim Berne, saxist/composer. His FULTON STREET MAUL is a great record, but my fave are the first three Bloocount records on JMT, which are pretty much out of print (though you should check out his Screwgun label' s website for cool stuff). Huge, long compositions with noise, space, silence and groove. Those are just some things I like. - -----s >From: KruciFly@aol.com >hello. i'm new on the list. >i am all but completely lost on the musical subjects you continually >discuss. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:19:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: New Yorker interview Let's not get carried away. I made a point of reading the entire article today at my favorite no-charge library (standing up at a magazine store) and found it pretty much what you'd expect from a slick. What bothered me was a couple of things. Knowing very little about jazz (even though the names Ornette Coleman and James "Blood" Ulmer are dropped without explanation), the writer seems to buy into the myth that jazz was moribund in the mid-1970s, buried under the onslaught of rock music. He then cites the sort of "downtown" types who Zorn was playing along side in lofts as David Murray, Arthur Blythe, Sam Rivers and Julius Hemphill. I'm sure any one of them who had careers going back year --20 or so in Rivers' case -- would be surprised to be appended to a loft movement with Zorn as its most prominent practitioner. More insidious was the idea that Zorn has somehow "made it" because he's able to write melodic classical music that's far removed from his raucous "rock" and "jazz" playing. If you notice nearly everyone, if not everyone quoted in the article comes from the classical aide of the fence. As if them praising Zorn gives him the stamp of approval. It's this reason that Hollywood movies about swing musicians used to end with them in ties and tails conducting large classical orchestras. And it's why all the "new" outlets, i.e. The New York Times, The New Yorker, New York etc. only give their imprimatur to musicians such as Zorn (remember it was the NYT's John Rockwell who first praised him) and Wynton Marsalis. They can play so-called classical music, their scores are performed by classical musicians and ensembles, therefore they are high art. And high art is good. This isn't an attack on Zorn, BTW, even though I think he does too much, too often, but an examination of musical establishment power politics. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net P.S. It would be nice if instead of an occasional sop in terms of an article, the New Yorker hired a jazz/new music critic who wrote well and knew as much about present day "out" sounds as Whitney Balliet knew about jazz pre-1960. P.P.S. Now that he's been praised by JZ, will the more rabid Zornies be rushing out to pick up some CDs by alto saxophonist Bud Shank? Or should we look for Shank to be invited to bring a group into Tonic? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:51:22 -0700 From: "sfwd" Subject: Re: Soup: Again : oops...i left out in my last Soup ramblings, it's a japanese based label and : artists. not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although, i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material was a bit too laid back for my tastes (especially as my favorite records recently seem to be by ground zero :) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:28:58 -0400 (EDT) From: William York Subject: Parachute >>I was digging through the archives at the radio station where I work, >>and >>I found a copy of Chadbourne's _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_, a great >>record featuring Zorn and Tom Cora, among others, on several tracks. >>Someone should really reissue this stuff. Stranger things in the Zorn >>discography have been re-released. >I have a cd reissue of _There'll Be No Tears Tonight_ on Fundamental >Records, which has released many Chadbourne recordings. I picked up this >copy in '94, so I'm not certain it's currently in print... It's not. The next chance of this may be if he (Chadbourne) releases it through his association with Ponk on a CD-R. Actually, I really have no idea about this being true but he has mentioned re-releasing some of the Camper Van Chadbourne CDs this way. TBNTT, if you ask me, is much better than those albums, so hopefully he or someone else will put it back out. That and _LSD C & W_ WY - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:12:26 -0400 From: Lang Thompson Subject: ESP again? Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title through Smithsonian? Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a fever dream? LT - ---------------------------------------------- Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:15:43 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Soup: Again In a message dated 6/9/99 8:58:19 PM, brap@sonic.net writes: << not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although, i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material was a bit too laid back for my tastes >> agreed to all of the above. I've never heard anything especially satisfying from Soup-Disk, although since I believe the 70 minute CD sampler is priced at about 2 bucks, you could cheaply check for yourself. on the other hand, the Andre Gurov-Revelations Of Wrath full length on the aforementioned Jazz Fudge is a really well-crafted record, superior to any of Vadim's work on Ninja Tune. something worth checking out in a similar vein is the Viennese duo Kruder and Dorfmeister, especially their DJ Kicks mix CD. go Knicks!!!!! Jon NP: Jeff Van Gundy - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:43:37 -0400 From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: suggestions (Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #670) Scott Handley wrote: > > I don't know if it would be a lost cause to make "suggested records" a FAQ, > w/ taste subjective and all, but it seems we get a fair number of newbies > (not a good word, by the way, for a list where punks can get into Mauricio > Kagel and Dumitrescu and jazzbos or avant-guardians can learn about Napalm > Death or Meshuggah) whose primary exposure is Naked City, Sonic Youth, punk, > etc. While these folks bring an amazing quality to the list, they might be > well-served by a semi-standard FAQ listing some must-have records by some of > the "luminaries", or labels at least. For instance, I would direct a > bebop/freebop fan to Masada. And I would direct all kinds of people to the > LJCO, or Evan Parker, or maybe Joe McPhee, who is bad-ass. It would serve > as a less "bewildering" introduction, and perhaps brief descriptions from > list members could be ore helpful than promo gush. > > Anyway, I'd be interested to know what ya'll think. I think that this is a good idea, although I also love posts like this one, if not for new information, then for the insight I get into the tastes of those on the list. > Now, to KruciFly's question: > > 1.) Have you checked out Masada? Bad-ass! If you like Masada, you will probably also get off on "Bar Kokhba" and "The Circle Maker," with the Masada String Trio and the Masada Chamber Ensemble. Compositions by Zorn and musical contributions from Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen, Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander, Anthony Coleman, Dave Douglas, Kenny Wollesen and others. Beautiful folk melodies in chamber settings. > 2.) Amazing Canadian composer/saxist Jean Derome can be seen as the > Quebecois answer to Zorn, but he isn't nearly as recognized. I mean > the _Penguin Guide_ snubs him! Crazy! I like his band Dangereux > Zhoms, which might be akin to Naked City, in some superficial and > essential ways (the pomo layers and jumpcuts, but slower). They have > a 3-CD box which is fine, though all are available separately. > Derome also has an album of "ballet" music, rather quiet, called LA > BETE, which I adore. He is brilliant. A whole circle of brilliant > improvisor-composers surrounds him, based in Montreal (??). Yes. 5.) Peter Brotzmann also seems to know something about hell. A > tenor-playing harbinger of doom and R&B, known for his all-out 1968 assault, > MACHINE GUN. I like his Die Like a Dog Quartet, which really slips into a > strange kind of "groove". Definitely free improv. I was so blown away by > his duo w/ drummer Andrew Cyrille in Atlanta, I was screaming. (Charles > Mingus' reaction to seeing the Ellington band for the first time, BTW...) And I'm still shaking from the Brotzmann Tentet performance at Victoriaville. The album (on Okka Disk) is a must have if you like energetic arranged free improv. - --Mike - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #672 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com