From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Another LYNCH question - Date: 01 Jan 2002 02:36:53 -0500 >in my opinion) DUNE? I hear it was originally about 3 hours, before it >was pared down for commercial release.... Actually there is a three-hour verson (a frequent bootleg item that you can even rent in some stores) but it was done without Lynch's approval and he fought to have his name removed. Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Another LYNCH question Date: 01 Jan 2002 01:59:54 -0600 >Actually there is a three-hour verson (a frequent bootleg item that you can >even rent in some stores) but it was done without Lynch's approval and he >fought to have his name removed. Is this the same as the "Allen Smithee" version that the Sci-Fi channel has shown in the past? From what I have been able to gather, Lynch objected to the extra exposition that was added to the film to "dumb it down" for the masses and make it more accessible, which led to his demanding his name be removed from the film. I must admit that I've always enjoyed the music from this film (guilty pleasure), despite the fact that it is the only thing Toto has done that has even remotely grabbed my attention. But as is the case with many of the soundtracks I've enjoyed over the years, I seem to enjoy it more without the connection to the visuals - as a stand alone album. When coupled with the movie, it just doesn't seem to fit that well (most of the time). I would love to have seen a soundtrack to the film done by Badalamenti - I have no doubt it would have been extraordinary. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: re: Agnes Martin Date: 01 Jan 2002 04:46:28 EST there was a book, i think put together by Barbara Haskell, that i picked up not too long ago, that included some of Martin's Work, with text...I'd reccomend any sort of writing Martin has done, she's amazingly lucid, unlike this response.. from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: BR=?ISO-8859-1?B?1g==?=TZMANN 10_Victoriaville 1999 Date: 01 Jan 2002 11:26:15 -0500 on 12/30/01 1:15 PM, Rick Lopez at bb10k@velocity.net wrote: > someone on the Zorn-list would know.*** I know more than one member > attended the show. >=20 >>> So, in my opinion this was the concert-program: >>> First set:=20 >>> 1) Immediate music (Lonberg-Holm) 8:00 >>> 2) Other brothers (Vandermark) exact duration unknown but more than >>> 22:00 >>> 3) Old bottles, no wine (Gustafsson) 9:00 >>> 4) Makapoor (Zerang) 17:00 >=20 >>> Introduction Br=F6tzmann (at the end of the first set) 1:10 >>> Second set:=20 >>> 1) Stone/water (Br=F6tzmann) 38:34 >=20 To the best of my memory, this was the order of the concert. I know that Brian Olewnik, Jon Abbey, and James Hale were also there. Kurt Gottschalk may have been there also. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Another LYNCH question - Date: 01 Jan 2002 13:33:58 -0400 > is there any chance in >hell for a director's cut of the much-maligned(but >incredibly awesome, >in my opinion) DUNE? DUNE exists on DVD (the regular version), but Paramount, Columbia (whatever) has said that this is a title they will probably revisit sometime in the future. Maybe this means putting out the three hours version, or maybe it just means that they'll add another trailer and an interview and call it a special edition. Talking about Lynch's uncut movies. .. Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me is originally a three hour long version too ... and the released one is missing some important scenes. Fans have been sending requests and fighting really hard to let them know that we really want the uncut version ... but it looks like they just don't wanna pay for the deleted scenes since this movie is going to be released in February ... the two hour version version that is. But of course ... if it were Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, then I guess they would put out a double DVD with lots of extra scenes and whatever. Happy New Year Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. ENNIO MORRICONES - fistful of filmmusic - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Nairn" Subject: Re: Humor Date: 01 Jan 2002 18:16:34 I would also like to point out the irony of Momus esp. the Stars Forever album which is a big prank on the music maker's way to make money, and some of his lyrics are filled with a wit. Another humorous and very artistic artist that is brought to mind is Beck. I still chuckle everytime I hear "Drive-by body piercing!" But as far as I know he's very serious. I think there are many artists that present humor and seriousness at the same time, and one could call that sort of prank on the limiting perspective people have of lyrics and music. (music that I think has simultanious humor/seriousness: Momus, Beck, Bruce Haack, Boredoms, Devo, Merzbow, Cibo Matto, Mercury Rev, Sun Ra, Aphex Twin, almost any Doo-wop, lots of synth-pop, etc.) I once saw some interview on VH1 with some magazine person who refering to the Red Hot Chili Peppers said that almost all successful music is goofy in some way, or something along those lines. And it makes me wonder if all music is somehow linked to humor, but of course it can also very serious, and I'm willing to say that it is both. -Andrew on 12/31/01 11:25 AM, &c. at parksplace@hotmail.com wrote: >As many people complain about "jokes" or "pranks" in music, I'm reminded >of a group that many people on this list enjoy immensely, Mr. Bungle. >Though their two most recent albums lack the overt sophomoric humor of >their debut, there is definitely a humor about Disco Volante (albeit >twisted) and even California. I could see where DV could be considered >one big joke, but this has been hailed as a work of genius (which I >would agree with, by the way). I'm confused... > >Wasn't Naked City involved in the occasional silliness, especially when >Mr. Eye was involved? > >Zach > >- > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Oswalds Grayfolded, Was: Re: Happy New Year Date: 01 Jan 2002 20:14:29 +0100 As for John Oswald's plunderings ... I think he did a great job with 'GRAYFOLDED', the 'remix' of Grateful Dead's 'Dark Star'. Does it sound dated? Not to the ears of this 40 something hippy :-) The dated sounds on Grayfolded are part of the genius of that work. For instance: the moment those shakers come in, lifted off some eight track analog tape reel. In the past, the Dead has been a group of tech heads too, and Oswalds approach is a critical one: he shows everybody how much more could have been done with the music of this erratic little rock n roll band. On albums like Anthem of the Sun and Infrared Roses the Dead only slightly hinted at the possibilities of technology and wit Oswald puts off in his GRAYFOLDED project. Ah well, it's only the Grateful Dead, but to me GRAYFOLDED is the only Fully Great Dead album... Regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Best Director's Duo Date: 01 Jan 2002 11:14:21 -0800 >>>The Man Who Wasn't There but I just found it a bit slow-moving.<<< Sublimely slow-moving. Like Paris, Texas and Dead Man. Comatosity as transcendence. The first Coen Bros. movie I have thoroughly enjoyed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: plunderphonics/etc. Date: 01 Jan 2002 15:07:51 -0700 Not, of course, that what I think is significant (or that the opinions expressed in my posts are anything other than manifestly subjective) - but of course Oswald's work was/is foundational for anyone seeking to thoughtfully approach sampling in music, and intellectual copyright law. Much of it is entertaining, and it's all extremely well crafted, even by contemporary standards. If I didn't feel this, I wouldn't bother talking about him at all. And I've digital copies of all Gentle Giant's albums, having "Acquired the Taste" some years ago. :) "Nobody's perfect . . . I myself have a susceptibility to drafts." -Oscar Wilde > If subjectively speaking you find Oswald's work emotionally or intellectually sterile, that's fine, but please qualify it as your personal opinion. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: Fwd: Best Director's Duo Date: 02 Jan 2002 01:16:43 +0100 (CET) --0-799363832-1009930603=:98744 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Barton Fink is for me the best film of Cohen bro. Muerte entre las flores(sorry,I don't know the original title)is another good film,but Fargo and O Brother disappoint me. _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es --0-799363832-1009930603=:98744 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: houseofklang@yahoo.es via web10306; 31 Dec 2002 07:27:40 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: X-Track: 1: 40 Received: from lists.xmission.com (198.60.22.7) by mta544.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Dec 2002 07:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16L4Jk-00024M-00 for zorn-list-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:25:36 -0700 Received: from [195.130.132.40] (helo=eos.telenet-ops.be) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16L4Jf-000247-00 for zorn-list@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:25:32 -0700 Received: from localhost (D57718C8.kabel.telenet.be [213.119.24.200]) by eos.telenet-ops.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEAA22017B for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:25:27 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v480) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.480) Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Content-Length: 253 List, I hope all members took the time to watch some movies directed by the brothers Coen. These are the most important to me: The Man Who Wasn't There O Brother, Where Art Thou Fargo greetings, Rob @ risk np: Hothouse Flowers - --0-799363832-1009930603=:98744-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Weegee Date: 01 Jan 2002 19:37:46 -0500 Has any one caught the Weegee exhibition at the Art Alliance in Philadelphia? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music for Long String Instrument in RealAudio Date: 31 Dec 2002 23:00:00 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear music by Ellen Fullman for her invention the Long String Instrument. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program, featuring new music for percussion by Chris Brown, John Cage & Lou Harrison, Wendy Mae Chambers, Alvin Curran, Beat Furrer, Peter Garland, Ikue Mori, Brigitte Robindore, Toru Takemitsu, and Thomas Witzmann is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Philippe Dupuis Subject: Fire Walk with Me Date: 01 Jan 2002 22:19:28 -0500 > -Talking about Lynch's uncut movies. .. Twin Peaks - Fire Walk With Me is > -originally a three hour long version too ... and the released one is missing > -some important scenes. This needs some clearing up. The released version of Fire Walk with Me is the version that Lynch cut himself and is satisfied with. It is the "director's cut" if you will. It ain't missing anything. Yes, the script called for more scenes with more of the regular characters that where on the show, but they didn't make the cut. It would be great to see these little bonus scenes on the disk, and that's what the fans have been fighting for, but it seems that 2 different companies are in battle on two has the rights, or something along those lines ... money, money, money. I'm just happy it's comming out anamorphic widescreen. > -Fans have been sending requests and fighting really > -hard to let them know that we really want the uncut version ... But I don't think the idea is to have them incerted in the actual movie, juat as extras. > They just don't wanna pay for the deleted scenes I guess Lynch wants to royal treatment of these bits if they are to come out, that means he wants to scenes to have music on them, and a cleaned up image. But it ain't going to happen. Martin Dupuis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Best Director's Duo Date: 01 Jan 2002 23:04:49 -0500 > Sublimely slow-moving. Like Paris, Texas and Dead Man. Yes! Two wonderful, wonderful movies! I honestly think that "Dead Man" is one of the most important American movies to come out in the last decade or so. Also recommended for those who like their (narrative) movies to advance at a pace slower than glacial: Alexandr Sokurov's "Mother and Son" and Carl Dreyer's "Gertrud." The latter plays like a parlor drama that's had the guts scraped out from it, with only skeleton and skin remaining. The former is more like a painting than a "movie." And Bela Tarr's "Satantango". And Abbas Kiarostami's "Taste of Cherry". I second "Barton Fink" as the best Coen Bros. film, but then again, I haven't seen "The Man Who Wasn't There" Speaking of Wenders and "Paris, Texas", I'm taking a class called "The Road Movie" next semester for the sole purpose of the possibility of watching "Kings of the Road" on 35 or 16mm. It was the first movie I watched post 9/11 (Kiarostami's "Close-Up" was the last thing I had watched prior.) Nirav [giddy because he a) got a job b) stumbled upon video feedback, which will provide hours of amusement0 -- AIM: Icefactory37 OnNow- Four Tet- Pause "Wheeler: A game-legged old man and a drunk- that's all you've got? Chance: That's *what* I've got" -from 'Rio Bravo' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 02 Jan 2002 00:11:02 -0500 Given the shock my offhand confession elicited, it's perhaps worth mentioning that I didn't pay for all of those discs. I get virtually every new classical release/reissue and about 30% of the new jazz releases/reissues gratis, thanks to my day jobs. The 450 new entries in my database surprised me, too, and those are just the ones I cared about enough to enter into the database to begin with. Many of the 450 were in fact older releases - things I requested from record companies for "research" and a great many things for which I traded unwanted things. That said, I did spend way more on music this past year than in any previous year I can remember, and it tended to come in spurts, like all the BYG reissues at once, or half a dozen Erstwhiles at a time, or six Melvins discs (four new, two used) when they were discussed here, or the first six Black Sabbath discs in a single outing when they were the subject. Pretty much any time I have some loose cash in pocket, it tends to result in new discs being purchased, and that's likely to remain the case until I decide to grow up and be more responsible (which is certainly looming given the trajectory of my personal life). And still there were a great many things I feel like I missed. The long list I sent was pretty much everything that demanded repeated listenings during 2001, but many of the things that came in to my offices this year under the guise of "official buiness" only merited one listen - and some not even that many. Still, it's damned hard to get around to everything... I've had that James Coleman theremin disc sitting around here for ages and still haven't put it on, but now that it's been on several others' lists... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Ashline I'll start off by qualifying my list. Under no circumstances was I able to purchase or obtain as many CDs as some on the list were able to do (Steve Smith--450 CDs--wow, Steve, that's about 4 new CDs every three days). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: most satisfying releases of 2001 Date: 02 Jan 2002 00:14:40 -0800 Steve Smith wrote: > > until I decide to grow up > and be more responsible (which is certainly looming given the trajectory > of my personal life). Think twice, man! Is it not pleasant here in Never-Never Land? > I've had that James Coleman theremin disc sitting around here for ages > and still haven't put it on, but now that it's been on several others' > lists... Mine too, tho I haven't posted it yet ... do give it a listen, it's one of my top two improv records for the year (jostling alongside Rowe/Nakamura _Weather Sky_). -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: Axon, _Perceptions_ nr: Henry Bromell, _Little America_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lsteinmann Subject: re: frith/zorn Date: 02 Jan 2002 10:40:36 +0100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_Rx71bTDd0idCV6OjTJpVmg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hi arthur, yeah "art of memory" is really great work. very intense music. when i = hear it LOUD i can really get into it, but also annoy my neighbour who = thinks i=B4m nuts due to hearing that kind of zorn stuff. but it=B4s = even more frightening when hearing the zorn/eye encore ;-) i like this duo (frith/zorn) better than zorns collaborations with = bailey. very interesting that there exists live material. when you hear = of some stuff being released please contact me. greets from germany, lars --Boundary_(ID_Rx71bTDd0idCV6OjTJpVmg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
hi arthur,
 
yeah "art of memory" is really great = work. very=20 intense music. when i hear it LOUD i can really get into it, but also = annoy my=20 neighbour who thinks i=B4m nuts due to hearing that kind of zorn stuff. = but it=B4s=20 even more frightening when hearing the zorn/eye encore ;-)
 
i like this duo (frith/zorn) better = than zorns=20 collaborations with bailey. very interesting that there exists live = material.=20 when you hear of some stuff being released please contact = me.
 
greets from germany,
 
lars
--Boundary_(ID_Rx71bTDd0idCV6OjTJpVmg)-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Copperthwaite" Subject: News For Lulu Date: 02 Jan 2002 11:49:50 -0000 Hi.... Can anyone point me in the direction of an available copy of News For Lulu and it's sequel? It seems to be deleted now and I'm desperate to get my hands on it. Mail me off the list if anyone can help - maybe a trade? Many thanks Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: RE: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 09:31:52 -0400 >The released version of Fire Walk with Me is the version that Lynch cut himself >and is satisfied with. It is the "director's cut" if you will. Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I thought that Lynch wanted to make (he actually did) the longer version which includes a lot of scenes that really make the film coherent ... because the released version of FWWM is really unstable. Anyway, Warner brothers (or whatever) didn't want to release a three hour plus movie so Lynch had to eliminate a lot of scenes. Those are the scenes that we want to see in the DVD... in what I call the director's cut. There's a scene with Jack Nance ... because Jack Nance has appeared in every Lynch movie except FWWM because of the deleted scenes. Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. ESQUIVEL - space-age bachelor pad music PS. One of my favourite scenes in FWWM is the Dvid Bowie one ... just what does it mean ... I don't care ... bit it's great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Re: the Gift/Ribot Date: 02 Jan 2002 14:12:39 +0000 well, what about the masterpiece "book of heads"?? _________________________________________________________________ O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar, editar e imprimir suas fotos preferidas: http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-JZ FS/FA: Palestine 2LP, Main 7", Null 7", Tortoise Date: 02 Jan 2002 10:02:46 -0500 Clearing out some items Zorn listees may be interested in: ** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas) If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. OFFERS/$58 -- Charlemagne Palestine - "Holy 1 & Holy 2" ITA 2LP (Alga Marghen: alga9) 2000 [Beautiful gatefold double album of sublime dronework from 1967. The entire 43 minutes of "Holy 1" is on sides A & B, with "Holy 2" on side C, and the 1968 version of "Holy 1 + 2" (for Gus Solomons) on side D. Playback choices: single sides, A + C, or B + C. Limited & numbered (#244/380). Slight outer sleeve wear (as purchased); sleeve/vinyl: m-/m.] OFFERS/$30 -- K.K. Null - "Invisible Fire/Mad Water" AUS 7" (Syntactic: zero41) 2000 [Blue vinyl. Ltd. & numbered (#91/100). Deleted.] OFFERS -- Main - "Coderays" AUS 7" (Syntactic: mzka07) 1995 [Clear vinyl. AUTOGRAPHED in gold by Robert Hampson at a Main gig in 1997 (not personalized). Limited & numbered (#40/100) with insert. Mint. Deleted.] $16 -- Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7" (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993 [2nd pressing on clear vinyl of this early single. In poster sleeve. mint/mint. Deleted.] OFFERS/$35 -- Tortoise - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996 [Inside sleeve AUTOGRAPHED in silver by Bitney, McEntire, Herndon, McCombs & Pajo (not personalized). 9 tracks; 3 bonus cuts: "Gamera", "Goriri" & "Restless Waters". Mint/new with papers & obi.] Questions, offers etc. ... -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PaanKu@aol.com Subject: Re: masada show new years eve in nyc Date: 02 Jan 2002 10:23:51 EST did anybody go to this? how was it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: RE: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 11:40:21 -0500 >Those are the scenes that we want to see in the DVD... in what I >call the director's cut. I'm not intimately familiar with the production history of Fire Walk With Me but everything I've read indicates that the longer version was a rough cut which would be in line with standard practice anyway. I would be surprised if the longer version was in a releasable form since I haven't seen anything that indicates it was but again who knows? Since Lynch apparently had rights to final edit on the film the released version is in fact a director's cut. Still, I'd love to see a DVD with both versions. There's a growing tendency to refer to any long or expanded version as a director's cut when that's often not true. For examples the long version of Touch of Evil when there can never be a director's cut for that film or even the long version of Dune which was explicitly disowned by the director, but there are plenty more. And these aren't even always better: the revised "director's cuts" of Star Wars and Lethal Weapon are both clearly worse than the originals. Most films are too long anyway. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 08:30:37 -0600 On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 09:31:52AM -0400, Neil H. Enet wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I thought that Lynch wanted to make (he > actually did) the longer version which includes a lot of scenes that really > make the film coherent ... because the released version of FWWM is really > unstable. There's some good info on this (and some speculation) at http://www.twinpeaks.org/faqfwwm.htm#f5 which also contains a link to the script of the missing scenes. -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: RE: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 10:28:12 -0800 (PST) >Most films are too long anyway. I heard a rumor that the Directors Cut of Blood Simple was shorter than the original. True? mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim, Pei-Yi" Subject: -- Zorn Improv Sat Night -- Date: 02 Jan 2002 13:51:21 -0500 Hello Folks, Happy 2002. Found this upcoming gig for this Saturday, Jan 5th at Tonic (in NYC) for 8pm & 10pm. Dunno who else will be playing but sure to be a great one. Grace, Pei-Yi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Selvig" Subject: Amacher Date: 02 Jan 2002 12:41:59 -0800 Hello, Does anyone here know about a Maryanne Amacher record that came out prior to the CD on Tzadik? I saw something while flipping through the "All Music Guide" at a bookstore, but I had a squirming toddler in my arms & thus was a bit distracted. Top 10 records for 2001: John Coltrane "Olatunji Concert" CD (Impulse) The Dirtbombs "Ultraglide In Black" LP (In The Red) Kinski "Be Gentle With the Warm Turtle" CD (Pacifico) Terry Riley "You're Nogood" CD (Cortical Foundation) Acid Mothers Temple "In C/In E" LP (Eclipse) Alan Silva "Seasons" LP (Get Back/BYG) Jackie-O Motherfucker "Liberation" CD (Road Cone) Birchville Cat Motel "We Count These Prayers" CD (Corpus Hermeticum) Neu "Neu!" LP (Astralwerks etc) Phill Niblock "Touch Works" CD (Touch) Top 5 non-2001 records I bought in 2001: Scientists "Blood Red River" EP (AuGoGo) Primitives "(Do) The Ostrich" 7" (Pickwick) Mecht Mensch "Acceptance" 7" (BoneAir) The Fall "Dragnet" CD (Cog Sinister) Charlie Feathers "Wild Wild Party" CD (Southern) Top 10 concerts: AMM, Mills College, Oakland CA/Eli Crews' house, Berkeley CA Dirtbombs, Bottom of the Hill, SFCA Cecil Taylor, Colorado College, Colorado Springs CO Nishinihon, Covered Wagon Saloon, SFCA Nmpereign, Luggage Store Gallery, SFCA 2/3 of Zeni Geva doing something infinitely superior to ZG, Great American Music Hall, SFCA Kinski, Kimo's, SFCA Angels of Light, Great American Music Hall, SFCA Maryanne Amacher/William Winant/Sam Ospovat, Mills College, Oakland CA Top 10 books read in 2001 - I won't even bother trying to stick to 2001 releases here... Sam Lipsyte "The Subject Steve" Philip K Dick "VALIS" Terry Southern "The Magic Christian" Michael Herr "Dispatches" Jorge Luis Borges "Collected Fictions" Iceberg Slim "Pimp" James Bamford "Body of Secrets" Edward O. Wilson "Consilience" Charles Willeford "Pick-Up" Nick Tosches "Country" -Chris Selvig _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: RE: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 15:42:52 -0500 >I heard a rumor that the Directors Cut of Blood Simple was shorter >than the original. True? Depends. Both versions have a running time of 97 minutes but apparently the "Director's Cut" (I'm using quotes because they're really both director's cuts) makes up for the trimming with the faked restoration introduction. So really the story is shorter even though the total time is the same. Peter Weir's recent re-edit of Picnic at Hanging Rock is shorter than the original by about seven minutes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: graham connah Subject: Sleepytime Gorilla Museum on tour Date: 02 Jan 2002 13:28:25 -0800 hey y'all, these guys have been spoken of highly (spoken highly of?) on this forum, so I thought I'd pass along the announcement below: --GC Sleepytime Gorilla Museum is going on tour again in support of their release "Grand Opening and Closing"......here's the dates: Wed. 1/9 - San Diego, CA - The Casbah Thu. 1/10 - L.A., CA - The Knitting Factory Fri. 1/11 - Bisbee, AZ - The Earwig Factory Sat. 1/12 - Tucson, AZ - Solar Cultural Gallery Sun. 1/13 - Phoenix, AZ - Modified Arts Mon. 1/14 - Albuquerque, NM - Golden West Tue. 1/15 - Norman, OK - The Deli Wed. 1/16 - Houston, TX - Rudyard's Thu. 1/17 - Austin, TX - Emo's Fri. 1/18 - Ft. Worth TX - Wreck Room Sat 1/19 - OK City, OK - Green Door Sun. 1/20 - K.C., MO - The Hurricane Tue. 1/22 - Denver, CO - Lion's Lair Thu. 1/24 - Salt Lake City, UT - Urban Lounge Fri. 1/25 - Reno, NV - Fot's Lounge Sat. 1/26 - S.F., CA - Bottom of the Hill Mon. 1/28 - Eugene, OR - Johhn Henry's Tue. 1/29 - Portland, OR - Blackbird Theater Wed. 1/30 - Seattle, WA - I-Spy Thu. 1/31 - Eureka, CA - Vista Fri. 2/1 - Sacramento, CA - Capital Garage -- - Chaosophy Records - Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - Faun Fables - Species Being - Two Foot Yard 915 Cole St. Box 307 San Francisco, CA 94117 www.chaosophyrecords.com info@chaosophyrecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: zornlistgalaxy Date: 02 Jan 2002 22:30:42 +0100 Yeah great, they (AG) cancelled the ZornListGalaxy group on Audio Galaxy without a reason. Anyway. greetings, Rob @ risk np: Gerry Hemingway 4tet - If You Like - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Top 10 records for 2001 Date: 02 Jan 2002 16:37:02 -0500 "Chris Selvig" wrote: > Top 5 non-2001 records I bought in 2001: > Scientists "Blood Red River" EP (AuGoGo) Check out their recent comp on Sympathy for the Record Industry too- 1982-1984 > Top 10 books read in 2001 - I won't even bother trying to stick to 2001 > releases here... > Terry Southern "The Magic Christian" Koch just came out with an interesting comp of his work, read by Allen Ginsberg among others- it's "Give Me Your Hump!: The Unspeakable Terry Southern Record" Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Re: Fire Walk with Me Date: 02 Jan 2002 17:41:00 -0500 > For examples the long version of Touch of Evil when there can never be a director's cut for that film Welles made extensive notes on how he wanted the film to appear, including how he wanted it to be edited. Though obviously he wasn't able to physically oversee the editing, the version that was re-released was as close to what he wanted (according to the notes) as we can get. I mistakenly rented the original film around the time that the re-release was scheduled and it was terrible compared to the new version (which I later watched). We should be grateful that we can get another movie, besides Kane, as close to Welles's original vision. > Most films are too long anyway. Case in point: Apocalypse Now Redux. Wonderful movie and the deleted scenes are good, but the length is a little much for one sitting, IMHO. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Amacher Date: 02 Jan 2002 18:20:44 -0500 At 12:41 PM 1/2/02 -0800, Chris Selvig wrote: >Hello, > Does anyone here know about a Maryanne Amacher record that came out >prior to the CD on Tzadik? I saw something while flipping through the "All >Music Guide" at a bookstore, but I had a squirming toddler in my arms & thus >was a bit distracted. The online version of the All Music Guide is at http://www.allmusic.com, and they do indeed list a 1989 Elektra/Nonesuch album entitled Stain. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com (by way of "Caleb T. Deupree" ) Subject: Gareth Willams (This Heat) RIP! Date: 02 Jan 2002 18:23:30 -0500 This was posted on the avant-progressive list. Since This Heat occasionally pops up here, I thought I'd pass it on. The following came off of R.M.P., where it was posted as being from These Records: "Gareth Williams, best known to music fans as one third of This Heat, died the morning of 24 December 2001. He leaves an undeniable imprint and contribution, both to the rich recorded legacy of the band albums - This Heat; Deceit; Made Available - The John Peel Sessions; Repeat; and the single Health and Efficiency - and, though a reluctant but compulsive performer, to the group's fearless, powerful live performances between 1976-81. As bassist and keyboard player in the band, he contributed an often sited 'wild card' aspect, also through the use of tape as a lead instrument, and the fact that he was never formally schooled as a musician, choosing to adopt an intuitive and abstract approach to his instruments, stated in one early review as having a 'Jackson Pollack approach' to playing the organ. After leaving the group, he studied kathakali dance in south India and later completed a degree in Indian religious studies and music at SOAS. He also wrote a large slice of the south Indian contribution of The Rough Guide to India and worked as a travel guide there. Whilst always passionately creating music domestically, including the 1985 limited edition cassette - Flaming Tunes - he was yet to decide on on a wider mode of output. He maintained a lifelong ambivalence to the industry side of being a musician, thus generally only close associates were aware of his activities - including collaborations with many other musicians, d.j. appearances, writing, promoting other performers, working on photographs and visuals. Gareth was diagnosed with cancer in September of 2001, after a short period of increasing illness, and quickly started making plans of things he wished to achieve. Despite having to spend long periods in hospital and undergoing serious treatment, he maintained an inspirational postitive attitude and continued to play music, with an eye on what could be done in the time he had left. He will be sorely missed by a large group of friends and collaborators, who knew him as a prolifically creative personality, staunch individualist, someone capable of the blackest of black humour, and extremely generous of spirit. Gareth John Williams 1953 - 2001" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: zornlistgalaxy Date: 02 Jan 2002 18:30:07 EST In a message dated Wed, 2 Jan 2002 4:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob Allaert writes: > Yeah great, they (AG) cancelled the ZornListGalaxy group on Audio Galaxy > without a reason. Anyway. Well *that* sucks. Oh well-you're all invited to join the Big Ugly Sharks group of which I'm dictator. We're more of a prog/punk group, but we love all things Zorn there too. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: In the mood for love Date: 02 Jan 2002 20:14:05 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ricardo Reis > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:37 AM > I've loved that movie (even "got" the poster in a murky 4 a.m. > raid to the movie theater)... I absolutely loved it -- I was lucky enough to stumble upon a VCD of it in December of 2000 in some out-of-the-way strip mall in suburban Houston, then saw it again in general release, and then again on DVD... The first time I saw it I thought it was swooningly romantic; the second time I saw it I thought it was suffused with a deep sorrow and a weary pessimism about the inevitability of the affair. The lush cinematography, those languorous musical interludes both prolonging and deferring, the Nat King Cole songs expressing their love/despair in a language neither of them could not understand, the way the film itself seemed to be a collection of half-remembered memories, of fleeting traces of gestures... Apparently Maggie Cheung was so fed up with Wong Kar-Wai (new dialogue would be faxed to her every morning) that she vowed not to work with him again -- until she finally saw the film. Sometimes the director would make Cheung and Tony Leung saying each other's lines. However, the dvd version below (which I have not seen) may be too much of a good thing: http://us.yesasia.com/prdDept.asp?section=videos&code=a&lang=en&pid=10018211 99&aid=46 Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Fwd:florian fricke r.i.p. (no Zorn content) Date: 03 Jan 2002 04:20:40 +0000 >Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:43:43 -0800 > > > From the "Mystic Records" website: > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------ > > SHOCK DEATH OF INSPIRATIONAL GERMAN ROCK LEGEND > > FLORIAN FRICKE, the innovative German composer who created the mythical >Kraut > > rock band POPOL VUH died on December 29th at his home following the >result > > of a stroke suffered just before Christmas. > > > > Florian and his band Popol Vuh (the name was taken from that of the >sacred > > book of the ancient Mayan Quiche Indians) first came to prominence >during >the > > early seventies when Florian recorded the first ever experimental album >built > > around the MOOG SYNTHESIZER entitled “Affenstunde” (The Hour Of The >Monkeys). > > > > > > Since that time in 1970, Florian Fricke and Popol Vuh have released in >excess > > of thirty albums (not including compilations) including the recent >“SHEPHERDS > > SYMPHONY” on Mystic Records, a wonderful, mystical adventure based >around >the > > music of the lost South American Indian tribes. > > > > Florian was of course renowned as the composer of the soundtracks to the > > legendary WERNER HERZOG movies that starred the late KLAUS KINSKI >including > > such classics as “Aguirre”, “Nosferatu”, “Cobra Verde” and >“Fitzcarraldo”. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: zornlistgalaxy Date: 03 Jan 2002 06:43:46 +0100 >> they (AG) cancelled the ZornListGalaxy group on Audio Galaxy > Well *that* sucks. Oh well-you're all invited to join the Big Ugly > Sharks group of which I'm dictator. We're more of a prog/punk group Does anyone else have a Galaxy group that isn't into punk ;-) ??? greetings, Rob @ risk np: Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alan Subject: massive CD sale list is posted Date: 03 Jan 2002 03:06:29 -0500 hey all, Some of you know this and some of you don't. I'm off to europe until further notice. I will be reachable by email only after jan 31st. here is the address for my massive cd sale: www.thenomoreco.com I've posted approx 95%+ of what is to be sold and will remove some sold items. This list will be updated everyday from here on out. Please order sooner than later because I will move at the end of the month and want to avoid any checks getting "lost" in the mail. The jazz list is longest (approx 1000 titles). The rock, vocals, classical and electronic will be at the bottom (electronic will be posted in the am). Please email me with any questions, requests and reservations. All relevant info should be at the top of the site. I hope all of these cd's find happy homes. Feel free to forward this to any relevant parties. thx, alan -- Alan Schneider ........................ The No More Co. est. 1995, BKNY www.thenomoreco.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M Pathos" Subject: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 03 Jan 2002 05:00:03 -0700 Has anybody seen Welles' "The Trial"? I saw a review of it in either The New Yorker or The Village Voice about two years go, when this rediscovered Welles adaption of Kafka's classic got its first-ever theatrical release. As a Kafka fanatic and Welles fan, I've been curious ever since, but have been unable to track it down. >We should be grateful that we can get another movie, besides Kane, as close to Welles's original vision. Of course there's also his version of Othello, which I've mixed feelings about but understand was pretty much an "independent" Welles production. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Amacher Date: 03 Jan 2002 07:34:38 -0600 >Hello, > Does anyone here know about a Maryanne Amacher record that came out >prior to the CD on Tzadik? I saw something while flipping through the "All >Music Guide" at a bookstore, but I had a squirming toddler in my arms & thus >was a bit distracted. Amacher had pieces and/or excerpts of pieces included on several compilations prior to the Tzadik disc, but I'm fairly certain there weren't any CDs entirely devoted to her music earlier. Compilation disks that I know of include: Imaginary Landscapes Nonesuch 79235 Throne of Drones Sombient/Asphodel 952 Swarm of Drones Sombient/Asphodel 953 Storm of Drones Sombient/Asphodel 966 I think there were one or two others, but that's all I can find right now. There may have been tracks on Tellus cassettes or other such magazine/anthologies (I don't have easy access to my cassettes right now). Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio mappings@antennaradio.com Mappings P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ari Subject: Re: Avant-Classical Naxos? Date: 03 Jan 2002 15:35:07 +0100 > From: "M.B." > Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 17:53:49 -0800 (PST) > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Avant-Classical Naxos? > > Could anyone recommend any above average > avant-classical Naxos releases besides the John Cage > "Prepared Piano" volumes? Hi, I think nobody answered your question so far (maybe off-list?), so here're two of my favourites: Pierre Boulez - Piano Sonatas Nos. 1-3 (Idil Biret) Witold Lutoslawski - symphony no.4; partita for violin and orchestra; chain II; funeral music; interlude (K. Bakowski; Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra; A. Wit) Ari np: Vattel Cherry's (trio) virtue - disciplines - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 03 Jan 2002 10:37:46 EST In a message dated 1/3/02 7:03:00 AM, mpathos@hotmail.com writes: << Has anybody seen Welles' "The Trial"? I saw a review of it in either The New Yorker or The Village Voice about two years go, when this rediscovered Welles adaption of Kafka's classic got its first-ever theatrical release. As a Kafka fanatic and Welles fan, I've been curious ever since, but have been unable to track it down. >> you're in luck, it was recently released on DVD: www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005OSK1/qid=1010072144/sr=2-3/ref=sr_2_75_3 /002-9178857-3459220 Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: the Gift/Ribot Date: 03 Jan 2002 16:43:49 +0100 (CET) Hi, Ricardo Jorge wrote: > well, what about the masterpiece > "book of heads"?? I just bought it and must definitely add it to my favorites of 2002 list right now. Ironically, "The Book..." is serving me as the background music while I prepare to negotiate the 2002 Grammys broadcast in Spain. It is somehow insane I guess. A Mark Anthony-Marc Ribot duo?... hum...Who knows. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: the book of heads (at work!!) > _________________________________________________________________ > O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar, > editar e imprimir suas > fotos preferidas: > http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Esquivel Date: 03 Jan 2002 12:37:46 -0400 Hello list, I just purchased Esquivel's "Space-Age Bachelor Pad Music" compilation and was very surprised to see a quote from John Zorn in the liner notes. Anyway ... what other compilation or albums do you recommend? Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. BARRY ADAMSON - moss side story - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Duke Wong" Subject: Music in Tokyo Date: 03 Jan 2002 11:39:04 -0500 Hey folks, First post here by a lurking newbie. I've been listening to Zorn's music for a few months now, at first through live performances and most recently, thanks to a good friend of mine, select albums. Amongst my favorites are Masada Live @ Tonic 2001, Filmworks X (Nolstalgia tracks are my favorites), The Circle Maker & Xu Feng. I'm also eager to check out the new Cobra album. I feel quite lucky to be a fellow New Yorker, with ample opportunities to check the man out live on somewhat of a randomly often basis. Next Friday I will be leaving for a 5 day trip to Tokyo, the first for me in Japan. I arrive Sat the 12th and depart Wed the 16th. Of course, I will be looking for some terrific high quality live music while I'm in town. Unfortunately I know nothing about the music there and what to expect, and speak no Japanese but can read Kanji due to my Chinese upbringing. If anyone can help shed some light on my quest for good live music while in Tokyo, that would be much appreciated. Much thanks in advance, Duke Wong P.S. Restaurant recommendations are also welcome! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: the Gift/Ribot Date: 03 Jan 2002 16:49:35 +0000 Another great album with Mr Ribot: "lust corner" from Noel Akchote, Eugene chadbourne & Marc Ribot!! and to Efren: I got the video! it's great! thanks! >Ricardo Jorge wrote: > > > well, what about the masterpiece > > "book of heads"?? > >I just bought it and must definitely add it to my >favorites of 2002 list right now. >Ironically, "The Book..." is serving me as the >background music while I prepare to negotiate the 2002 >Grammys broadcast in Spain. It is somehow insane I >guess. A Mark Anthony-Marc Ribot duo?... hum...Who >knows. > >Best, > >Efrén del Valle >n.p: the book of heads (at work!!) > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar, > > editar e imprimir suas > > fotos preferidas: > > http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > - > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger >Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. >http://messenger.yahoo.es > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo através do MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Music in Tokyo Date: 03 Jan 2002 11:51:42 EST In a message dated 1/3/02 11:49:13 AM, dukewongnyc@hotmail.com writes: << If anyone can help shed some light on my quest for good live music while in Tokyo, that would be much appreciated. >> check out japanimprov.com. one that jumped out on a brief glance there was: January 13-Yoshihide Otomo, Utah Kawasaki, minamo, Tetuzi Akiyama, and BasRatch at Uplink Factory in Shibuya, Tokyo. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Arto Lindsay moovies Date: 03 Jan 2002 16:52:27 +0000 hi! I just saw a movie/documentary on Arto called "simply are" and somewere in the middle they go to a place were some people are working on DNA footage, is there a DNA Video going to be released? anyone knows anything about this?? np: Harriet tubman _________________________________________________________________ Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo através do MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Esquivel Date: 03 Jan 2002 18:06:04 +0100 (CET) HI, Neil H. Enet wrote: I just purchased Esquivel's "Space-Age Bachelor Pad > Music" compilation and > was very surprised to see a quote from John Zorn in > the liner notes. Anyway > ... what other compilation or albums do you > recommend? Thanks I liked "Latin-Esque" quite a lot. It has the usual easy-listening moods by Esquivel and his funny and somehow "outer space"-arrangements. AS the title says, the album is comprised mostly of Latin Jazz classics. I don't have it at hand so I can't provide further details. BTW, the all-female chorus is priceless. Hope it helps. Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Arto Lindsay moovies Date: 03 Jan 2002 18:24:47 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > hi! I just saw a movie/documentary on Arto called > "simply are" and somewere Where did you find that?! Any European TV channel or just a video for sale in stores? (which I'd find strange). I'm not a Lindsay heavy-fan but video material is always interesting. Thanks in advance. Efrén _________________________________________________________________ > Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo > através do MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com/br > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 03 Jan 2002 12:33:07 -0500 >Yorker or The Village Voice about two years go, when this rediscovered >Welles adaption of Kafka's classic got its first-ever theatrical release. This may have been a re-release but The Trial definitely was released theatrically at the time. Its US premiere was in February 1963 and it's been available, though not easily found, ever since (I booked it for a film society in the mid-80s, it sometimes turns up in more adventuresome video stores and we've shown it on TCM). As Jon points out there's now a DVD, two in fact: one from the budget company Delta and another from Image (I'm not familiar with either release but purely on reputation I'd go with Image). >Of course there's also his version of Othello, which I've mixed feelings >about but understand was pretty much an "independent" Welles production. This was about as independent as they come since it took Welles a few years to film whenever he got enough money. Co-star Michael MacLiammoir wrote a memoir about the production. There's a DVD of this too but it's not entirely Welles' version since some of the music and even dialogue was recently re-recorded to replace the original. (But then all of Welles' films except Citizen Kane exist in multiple versions, something to keep the critics busy.) LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Fire Walk with Me Date: 03 Jan 2002 12:44:08 -0500 >Welles made extensive notes on how he wanted the film to appear, >including how he wanted it to be edited. Though obviously he wasn't But this is not a director's cut. Much of what Welles specified in the memo is still open to interpretation; even on such a basic matter as the correct aspect ratio there's still an intense debate. Give another editor and Welles scholar the same memo and footage and they would create yet another version. This recreation may be as close as we'll get to Welles' intentions but it's still not Welles' cut (the only one he was directly involved with is the preview cut which along with the even shorter theatrical release have all been released on video). LT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Esquivel Date: 03 Jan 2002 10:24:17 -0800 > Hello list, > > I just purchased Esquivel's "Space-Age Bachelor Pad Music" compilation and > was very surprised to see a quote from John Zorn in the liner notes. Anyway > ... what other compilation or albums do you recommend? Thanks > > Neil H. Enet > ------------ > Actually, the reissue of Esquivel's long lost SEE IT IN SOUND is just amazing. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Year of the Snake faves Date: 08 Jan 2002 00:24:39 +0100 Hi y'all, here's my list of Year of the Snake favorites (regardless of when they were released)=2E Being much less of a consumer than some people here, for reasons of time as much as money, this might seem short, but here goes: CDs Elliott Sharp: "Autar"(Zuta music) Entirely acoustic and largely microtonal pulsating desert blues music for guitar & 2 sumsumiyas=2E Unique=2E Gustav Malher: Symphony n=B0 9, Chicago symph=2E conducted by Pierre Boulez (Deutsche Grammophon) 4 large emotional mosaics matchlessly delivered=2E "Sufi Soul" (2 CDs) (Network) Tasteful compilation of various strands of arabo-muslim spiritual musics by great artists, from Al-Kind=EE to Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan=2E "D=E9ja Vu", CSN&Y (Atlantic) For the opening 4 orgasmic minutes or so ("Carry On"), the ultimate hippy anthem=2E "Barbara", Volumes 2 to 7 (1960 to 1970) (Philips) The finest flower of French chanson (IMHO), precision, intelligence and beauty=2E The Miles "Silent Way" sessions, while being pleasant enough, disapointed me in exactly the same way as the Beatles "Anthology", or the complete Hendrix "Band of Gypsies" concerts a few years ago: Teo Macero and Miles knew what the fuck they were doing when they did what they did, and the stuff they edited out was better edited out=2E Can you imagine a pianist performing all of Beethoven's crossed out and altered sketches for each sonata? What a mess and betrayal, if you love Beethoven's work=2E Miles, the Beatles, Hendrix beautifully and flawlessly composed their albums and to sell as their work all that went into that creative process of choice and elimination is a denial of the artist's integrity, IMHO=2E Interesting musicology, ok, but just that=2E Films "Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am=E9lie Poulain", Jean-Pierre Jeunet Incredibly creative post-Godard cinematography (don't pay attention to the sirupy U=2ES=2Emarketing campaign) "Kandahar", It's surreal, except it's real=2E Beautiful & does'nt tell you how to feel=2E Hitchcock's "Shadow of a Doubt" (whatever happened to Teresa Wright? wow=2E=2E=2E) "I Confess" (for Monty Clift) "Stage Fright" (sensational evil Marlene Dietrich) "Rear Window" Erich von Stroheim's "Foolish Wives"(1922) (as sexually and socially incorrect as it gets) I thought the first half of "Mulholland Drive" was very promising, but that it failed to deliver this promise, relying a little bit too lazily on the "Vertigo" tricks which already made up a large part of "Lost Highway"=2E Hey, don't lynch me!!! "Blue Velvet" and "Wild at Heart" are 2 of my all-time faves!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Zorn/Chadbourne Date: 03 Jan 2002 21:27:24 +0100 (CET) Hi, I've had the Zorn/Chadbourne "In memory of Nikki Arane" album in my hands countless times and haven't decided to buy it yet. It's a good opportunity so, please encourage me or viceversa. Is it worth the money? Thanks in advance. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: still "The book of heads" again and again. _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: Arto Lindsay movies Date: 03 Jan 2002 22:04:25 +0100 Hi, I saw "Simply Are..." over christmas on a channel called Muzzik. It's a french documentary on the last Arto tour in these parts (end of 2000? can't even remember when that was, I saw him in Zurich). The french subtitles are terrible (but, mercifully, it's just english spoken), and unless you are a total fan and/or aware of=20 Patrice's discography, you can get terribly bored/lost.=20 People who are interviewed are not introduced, and=20 I can only _suppose_ that the footage with DNA and Arto has to do with the recent movie on Basquiat which I haven't seen. Apparently Arto is overdubbing himself hitting into Basquiat on the street.=20 Here the details: ??? - SIMPLY ARE...: Sarah Teper French, 2001, 55 minutes, live 2000 + interviews=20 in France, in a (british?) pub, NY rehearsals, in Bahia with Caetano Veloso. Crap subtitles: Defunked for Defunkt, Reed for Greed, Peter Share for Peter Scherer.. Tracks (didn't bother to check spellings, from the last few albums): unsure, it has only to happen once, Amina, Animale?, re-entry,=20 simply are, enxugar, noon chill, o nono bela, 9 out of 10, podeficar,=20 ondina, amantes, unbearable, gods are weak, whirlwind So while we're at it: somebody mentioned "Ecomixes" by Arto as a best of 2001.=20 How long has this been out and how is it and what are the details? St=E9phane > -----Original Message----- > From: efr=E9n del valle [mailto:efrendv@yahoo.es] > Sent: Donnerstag, 3. Januar 2002 18:25 > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Fwd: Arto Lindsay moovies >=20 > > hi! I just saw a movie/documentary on Arto called > > "simply are" and somewere=20 >=20 > I'm not a Lindsay heavy-fan but video material is > always interesting. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "BreakingNews@CNN.COM ." Subject: If you want these---- Date: 03 Jan 2002 13:14:52 -0800 Just wanted to drop a note. Stop by www.slaymobil.da.ru I have mp3's up of my new project. If you like any of the music, send me an e-mail and I will send you a copy of the disc, for freakin free.... The music is a guitar/drum improv duo called slaymobil. John Schuller _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Giddins' picks Date: 03 Jan 2002 16:54:04 EST http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0201/giddins.php - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: PROMO: Kelley/Lescalleet/Ielasi/Sciajno NE US record release tour Date: 03 Jan 2002 17:23:58 EST sorry for the promotional intrusion, but I wanted to let people know about the Erstwhile showcase night coming up soon at Tonic. anyone intrigued by the recent mentions of electroacoustic improv and these specific projects owes it to themselves to stop by and check out what this music sounds like live. I'm really hoping for a good turnout at the Tonic show, so please forward this to anyone you know who might be interested. thanks! Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Greg Kelley/Jason Lescalleet (from Boston): Forlorn Green CD (erstwhile 019) Greg Kelley: trumpet Jason Lescalleet: tape loops, computer Giuseppe Ielasi/Domenico Sciajno (from Italy): Right After CD (erstwhile 020) Giuseppe Ielasi: electronics Domenico Sciajno: electronics, programming 1/14 (Mon) Tonic, NYC, 8 PM, $10 (three sets including a combined quartet) 1/15 (Tues) Tremont Theater, 276 Tremont St, Boston, 8 PM, $10 1/16 (Wed) Twisted Village, Cambridge (the quartet of Ielasi, Sciajno, Kelley and soprano saxophonist Bhob Rainey) 1/17 (Thu) Prescott Tavern, Hampshire College, Amherst, 893 West St., 8 PM 1/19 (Sat) Red Room, Baltimore, 425 E. 31st Street, 8:30 PM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In late November, Erstwhile Records released two CDs, one of which featured a duo of Boston-based musicians Greg Kelley & Jason Lescalleet, the other a duo of Italian musicians Giuseppe Ielasi & Domenico Sciajno. To celebrate the release of these CDs, the two duos will be doing a series of CD release performances in New York City, Baltimore, Boston, and Amherst. This event will consist of performances by both duos, each of which will utilize real-time transformation of sonic materials. Lescalleet's primary means are reel-to-reel tape recorders, contact microphones and speakers which he uses to sculpt textural soundscapes, using layers of tape loops and primitive sampling (in this case, of Kelley's trumpet). In the case of the Italian duo, Sciajno will be using a laptop computer and some specially modified electronics in combination w/ Ielasi's electric lap steel guitar and electronics. This will mark the North American premiere of Ielasi's work. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ GREG KELLEY, trumpet, has performed throughout the United States, Europe and Japan and has gained a reputation as one of the most innovative trumpet players in improvised music. He has worked w/ Keiji Haino, Pauline Oliveros, and Anthony Braxton, among others. www.geocities.com/greyelkgel JASON LESCALLEET, tape loops & computer, has been an active member of the New England noise & electronic music scenes for the better part of a decade. He has worked w/ many of the world's prominent sound artists including Francisco Lopez, Achim Wollscheid, and John Hudak. www.jasonlescalleet.com GIUSEPPE IELASI, guitar & electronics, is the founder of Fringes Recordings and has been involved in Europe's new improvised music scene since the late 80's working w/ Dean Roberts, Brandon LaBelle, and Jerome Noetinger, as well as doing a lot of work w/ theater groups and radio. www.fringesrecordings.com DOMENICO SCIAJNO, electronics, started out as a bass player, but has since devoted himself entirely to electronics. He has worked w/ Alvin Curran, Le Quan Ninh, and Ellen Christi, as well as w/ dance groups, theater, and work as an installation artist. www.headroom.ws - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: Year of the Snake faves/barbara Date: 03 Jan 2002 20:35:43 -0600 Where would you recommend starting with Barbara? I've been eyeing vol 3 ever since hearing her song "Septembre" in Francois Ozon's "Under the Sand." (Charlotte Rampling still looks great after all those years...) Thanks, Ben >From: duncan youngerman >Reply-To: y-man@wanadoo.fr >To: "zorn-list@lists.xmission.com" >Subject: Year of the Snake faves >Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1904 00:24:39 +0100 > >Hi y'all, here's my list of Year of the Snake favorites (regardless of >when they were released). >Being much less of a consumer than some people here, for reasons of time >as much as money, this might seem short, but here goes: > >CDs >"Barbara", Volumes 2 to 7 (1960 to 1970) (Philips) >The finest flower of French chanson (IMHO), precision, intelligence and >beauty. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: Re: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 04 Jan 2002 04:21:15 +0100 (CET) --- M Pathos escribió: > Has anybody seen Welles' "The Trial"? I saw a review > of it in either The New > Yorker or The Village Voice about two years go, when > this rediscovered > Welles adaption of Kafka's classic got its > first-ever theatrical release. As > a Kafka fanatic and Welles fan, I've been curious > ever since, but have been > unable to track it down. > > > >We should be grateful that we can get another > movie, besides Kane, as close to Welles's original > vision. > > Of course there's also his version of Othello, which > I've mixed feelings > about but understand was pretty much an > "independent" Welles production. > > _______________________________________________________ I've seen The Trial two years ago, and is one of my favourite Welles films ,the strange connection of the worlds of Kafka and Welles is marvelous. For me all Welles' films are masterpieces, except Othello and Macbeth ,two good films but the technic is a deliberate copy of Eisenstein. The caotic filming of Othello are very interesting:Welles filmmed some scenes with the filming team of The Black Rose (Henry King),another scenes in Italy and Morocco, but for legal troubles the film was nationalized in EUA.During making this film makes some other projects. Finally three years for finish the film. The most difficult was join all the actors at the same place and the same time. Welles starts many projects, but the independence on his work makes impossible to finnish it. And some of this material was great. In a retrospective of Welles I could seen some of this:a series of absolutely comical shorts about towns of Europe like Vienna or London, an spectacular short of Moby Dick with Orson reciting fragments from the novel, a documentary film of Brazil, and an incredible magic show (with the magician Welles obviously), and some strange tv shows. If someone can see this material some day I recommended it, all is great. Sorry for my bad english(this e-mail is a difficult exercise for me)and regards for everyone. Ricardo. _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 03 Jan 2002 23:05:26 -0500 >I could seen some of this:a series of absolutely >comical shorts about towns of Europe like Vienna or >London, This may be moving too far off topic but for anybody who cares: This is probably segments of Around the World with Orson Welles which was recently released on US DVD. >an spectacular short of Moby Dick with Orson >reciting fragments from the novel, Probably part of Welles' popular stage production but I didn't know any film of it existed. >a documentary film of Brazil, It's All True, but Welles not only never completed this but never even got to see the rushes (the footage was found shortly before his death and edited by others). In typical Welles fashion, parts of it stretch the idea of documentary, mainly by being a recreation rather than direct documentation. >and an incredible magic show (with the magician Welles obviously), possibly the magic act from Follow the Boys which was a filming of portions of a larger show he and the other Mercury Company actors did for soldiers during the war (Marlene Dietrich was Welles' assistant, replacing Rita Hayworth who her studio had forbidden from participating). >and some strange tv shows. There are lots of these later in his career, most notably the Dinesen adaptation The Immortal Story. LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: OT Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9lie?= in US (Year of the Snake faves) Date: 04 Jan 2002 01:11:56 -0500 * duncan youngerman : >Hi y'all, here's my list of Year of the Snake favorites >(regardless of when they were released). >"Le Fabuleux Destin d'Am=E9lie Poulain", Jean-Pierre Jeunet >Incredibly creative post-Godard cinematography (don't pay >attention to the sirupy U.S. marketing campaign) Hi Duncan, Just wanted to ask (anyone, really), since I think I read the above rig= ht (some text did not come through) ... what has Miramax done with "Am=E9l= ie" in the US, and how is it syrupy? [Are you in the US or France?] I'm i= n Canada, and haven't seen much of the campaigning done here, but I don't normally pay attention to such things. Jeunet (and Godard :) are faves of mine, and I'm an Audrey Tautou fan from "Venus Beaut=E9 (institut)" and "Voyous, Voyelles" so I've seen th= e film 6 times (original & subtitled) since it debuted here last Sept. at the Toronto Film Festival. I keep telling friends to go see it, and to buy the soundtrack. I've followed Yann Tiersen since his track w/ Claire Pichet for "La Vie R=EAv=E9e des Anges" (Dreamlife Of Angels)= . Definitely my top film of the year ... -Patrick NP: Helena - "Azul" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: Zorn/Chadbourne Date: 04 Jan 2002 04:16:31 -0500 Hello, ....I like the duo album quite a bit. It's four tracks recorded at t= wo live shows circa 1980. The recordings fall in the non-jazz free-improv sphere; nothing song-like occurs, though there is plenty of personality, humor in particular. Silence is used very effectively. A racket is kicked= up from time to time, but more often the twosome combine to generate a low-k= ey landscape of abstraction. Sometimes it isn't easy to tag just who is maki= ng what sound. It's quite a blast, IMHO. I remain... Joseph NP: Carlos Malcolm "Ska-Mania" CD NR: William Faulkner "As I Lay Dying" -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of efr=E9n del valle Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:27 PM Hi, I've had the Zorn/Chadbourne "In memory of Nikki Arane" album in my hands countless times and haven't decided to buy it yet. It's a good opportunity so, please encourage me or viceversa. Is it worth the money? Thanks in advance. Best, Efr=E9n del Valle n.p: still "The book of heads" again and again. _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicaci=F3n instant=E1nea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: OT Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Am=E9lie?= in US] Date: 08 Jan 2002 18:19:19 +0100 Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME. --------------6650536CA3436007E719805B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------6650536CA3436007E719805B Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <83E463C3.782E5E3B@wanadoo.fr> Reply-To: y-man@wanadoo.fr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Patrick Carey a *crit : > * duncan youngerman : > >Hi y'all, here's my list of Year of the Snake favorites > >(regardless of when they were released). > > >"Le Fabuleux Destin d'Amélie Poulain", Jean-Pierre Jeunet > >Incredibly creative post-Godard cinematography (don't pay > >attention to the sirupy U.S. marketing campaign) > > Hi Duncan, > > Just wanted to ask (anyone, really), since I think I read the above right > (some text did not come through) ... what has Miramax done with "Amélie" > in the US, and how is it syrupy? [Are you in the US or France?] I'm in > Canada, and haven't seen much of the campaigning done here, but I don't > normally pay attention to such things. I happen to be in France but I've read seen U.S.ads and reviews where the film ( cutely retitled "Amelie from Montmartre") is made out to be this harmless "magical" "feel-good" family entertainment designed to make you forget Sept.11... DY. > > > > --------------6650536CA3436007E719805B-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: Re: Zorn/Chadbourne Date: 04 Jan 2002 14:12:14 +0000 (GMT) efrén del valle wrote: >I've had the Zorn/Chadbourne "In memory of Nikki >Arane" album in my hands countless times and haven't >decided to buy it yet. It's a good opportunity so, >please encourage me or viceversa. Is it worth the >money? Well, if you like the plinky plonk, scratch, scrape, shake, rattle, roll, ...silence.... bang, clatter, squeak, pop, ...silence... gargle, crash, wallop, smack, crack, ...silence... hubble, bubble, toil and trouble, 3 frog's legs, 2 bat's wings of most early Zorn, you can't go wrong with it at all. I've got it, I like it. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= Subject: Re: OT Re: Amélie in US] Date: 04 Jan 2002 15:05:58 +0000 (GMT) > I happen to be in France but I've read seen U.S.ads and reviews where the film ( cutely retitled "Amelie from Montmartre") is made out to be this harmless "magical" "feel-good" family entertainment designed to make you forget Sept.11...DY. > But, "amazing cinematography" aside, isn't this what it is (excluding the September 11 bit)? This argument has been made by critics here in the UK: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4270666,00.html and the US: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0144/hoberman.php Also (for those who didn't hear), 'Amelie' very much "swept all before it" in its native country, before some of the French press - Hoberman names the 'Liberation' newspaper, though I had read that the first contentious article was published in 'Les Inrockuptibles' magazine (Paris's 'Time Out', broadly speaking ) - took strong issue with what it regarded as the film's un-racially diverse depiction of the racially diverse Montmartre area of Paris in which it is set, prompting a fairly heated cultural / sociological debate. ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Parry Gettelman Subject: Welles' best Date: 04 Jan 2002 15:34:52 GMT My favorite from Welles is "Chimes at Midnight," sometimes called "Falstaff," his conflation of "Henry IV Parts I&II" w/ "Merry Wives of Windsor." The battle scene is just stunning -- not in the usual way of battle scenes, but in eerily conveying the muddledness of war in general. Welles was born to play Falstaff, of course, and John Gielgud is magnificent as the old king. Keith Baxter is riveting as young Hal -- a shame he never made any other movies except for one really hokey thing w/ Elizabeth Taylor. I gather he was mostly a stage actor. The lovely Jeanne Moreau also makes a fine Dol Tearsheet. I haven't seen the movie in many years but scenes are still very vivid in my mind. My second favorite is "Touch of Evil." Parry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: OT Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Am=E9lie?= in US] Date: 01 Jan 2002 01:20:35 +0100 =3D?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=3D20Cain?=3D a =E9crit : > > I happen to be in France but I've read seen U=2ES=2Eads > and reviews where the film ( cutely retitled "Amelie > from Montmartre") is made out to be this harmless > "magical" "feel-good" family entertainment designed to > make you forget Sept=2E11=2E=2E=2EDY=2E > > > But, "amazing cinematography" aside, isn't this what > it is (excluding the September 11 bit)? I don't think Jeunet's film has much to do with typical aseptisized major studio production=2E It's above all the personal vision of an artist=2E DY=2E > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Zorn/Chadbourne Date: 04 Jan 2002 17:11:13 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > Well, if you like the plinky plonk, scratch, scrape, > shake, rattle, roll, ...silence.... bang, clatter, > squeak, pop, ...silence... gargle, crash, wallop, > smack, crack, ...silence... hubble, bubble, toil and > trouble, 3 frog's legs, 2 bat's wings of most early > Zorn, you can't go wrong with it at all. Very eloquent!! :-) Really, I'll go for it. It's always a good moment for crack, plunk, crash, pop, crack, ... and so on. Thanks a lot. All the best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: re:zorn/chad Date: 04 Jan 2002 17:10:37 +0000 i'm definitely a fan of both zorn and chadbourne, and have too much of both of their stuff. 'nikki arcane' is hardly my fave by either. that said, it's still pretty good. more like 'art of memory' than anything else i can think of right away. better zorn/chad things are the cd that came with the italian zorn book (sonoma? someone will help here), or any of the old recordings by 'the chadbournes' which you can get directly from the doctor at http://www.roanoke.infi.net/~chadnc/HouseOfChadula/EugeneHome.html zorn's solo on 'octopus garden' is a must. wow, i'm sounding awfully fanboy today. maybe i should have used some bad words or something... kurt _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: re:zorn/chad Date: 04 Jan 2002 18:46:31 +0100 (CET) Hi Kurt and everyone, > > better zorn/chad things are the cd that came with > the italian zorn book > (sonoma? someone will help here), You mean Materiali Sonori. But that's pretty harsh material, IMHO. I can't stand the whole album, mainly due to the sound quality of those old recordings. Thanks a lot. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: mcphee/dalachinsky/brechtforum/january Date: 04 Jan 2002 18:41:45 +0000 >nEUES kABARETT @ tHE bRECHT fORUM >presents >Joe McPhee & Steve Dalachinsky > >Sat. Jan 12 >9pm > >Joe McPhee first emerged on the creative jazz and new music scene in the >late 1960s and early 1970s and has been a deeply emotional composer, >improvisor and multi-instrumentalist as well as a thoughtful conceptualist >and theoretician. >Born on November 3, 1939, in Miami, Florida, McPhee first began playing >the trumpet at age 8. McPhee continued on that instrument through high >school and then in a U.S. Army band stationed in Germany; during his army >stint he was first introduced to traditional jazz. Clifford Thornton's >Freedom and Unity, released on the Third World label in 1967, is the first >recording on which McPhee appears. In 1968 he began playing the saxophone, >and since then has investigated a wide range of instruments (including >pocket trumpet, clarinet, valve trombone and piano), with active >involvement in both acoustic and electronic music. With a career now >spanning over 30 years and roughly 50 recordings, Joe McPhee has shown that >emotional content and theoretical underpinnings are thoroughly compatible — >and in fact a critically important >pairing — in the world of creative improvised music. > >If it has happened in the New York jazz scene in the past 30 years, poet >Steve Dalachinsky has seen it. But for the past 15 years Dalachinsky has >been more than just an avid observer of the music, he has been performing >with the musicians that inspire his poetry. Dalachinsky has performed his >poetry in various contexts and circumstances related to the new jazz scene >in New York including the annual Vision Festival, which he has emceed >frequently >over the the festival's four-year existence. He has had his poetry >self-released and by small imprints and has also had his poetry serve to >liner notes for such artists as Billy Bang and Roy Campbell. > >Saturday, January 12th, 2002 >9:00 PM >$8 >at the Brecht Forum >122 West 27th St. 10th Floor, Manhattan >call 212-242-2401 for day-of-event info >1/9 to 28th; C/E to 23rd; F to 23rd; 6 to 28th; N/R to 28th coming soon: roy campbell/andrew barker/maria mitchell _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: zornlistgalaxy Date: 04 Jan 2002 22:38:39 +0100 Time to share. We're back on: http://www.audiogalaxy.com/groups/group.php?&gID=260297 Who will be first member ? greetings, Rob @ risk np: Sting - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Tops of 2001 Date: 04 Jan 2002 16:27:54 -0600 Well, since it's the season for top 10 or whatever lists, I guess I'll throw mine in for what little it's worth, not that I bought a ton of new releases this year. Music (new): Thai Elephant Orchestra Dave Douglas - Witness various - Banda Sinaloense (Mexican Brass bands from the 50s-60s) Henry Threadgill Zooid - Up Popped the Two Lips Marc Ribot - Saints the Ex - Dizzy Spells Vandermark 5 - Acoustic Machine Bill Frisell - Blues Dream Brotzmann - Fuck de Boere Slayer - God Hates Us All Music (reissues): All the Sun Ra on Evidence many of the Ethiopiques discs Rova - As Was Books: It seems like most of the books I read this year dealt with music, mathematics and mental illness (sometimes one, sometimes a combination). Note that I have no idea when these were actually published. Highlights were: Arcana - Zorn (ed.) Prozac Nation - Lauren Selter The Nothing that Is - a history of Zero Culture & Spontenaiety that Lee Perry bio Zero If anyone wants the authors or more info let me know Movies: Ghost World Memento TV: Junkyard Wars CSI (the funniest show on television)! Party on, Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: Year of the Snake faves/Barbara Date: 01 Jan 2002 08:27:04 +0100 Ben, "Septembre" is actually on "vol=2E4, (G=F6ttingen)1964-66" , which would be = a fine place to start with Barbara=2E It contains "G=F6ttingen" and "Le mal de vivr= e", maybe her best 2 songs IMHO, along with many other great ones=2E Otherwise, there's a "best of" on Polygram's "Master Serie"=2E Vol=2E1 cove= rs all the 60's (incl=2E the 2 songs mentioned above) and is the one to get (her la= ter work is not on the same level IMHO)=2E That's maybe the best intro to Barbar= a=2E 100% great stuff, starting with her grandiose pop hit "L'Aigle noir"=2E Best, DY=2E Ben Axelrad a =E9crit : > Where would you recommend starting with Barbara? I've been eyeing vol 3 > ever since hearing her song "Septembre" in Francois Ozon's "Under the Sand= =2E" > > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: zornlistgalaxy Date: 04 Jan 2002 18:10:40 -0500 At 10:38 PM 1/4/02 +0100, Rob Allaert wrote: >Time to share. We're back on: Any idea why the previous one was cancelled? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: zornlistgalaxy Date: 05 Jan 2002 00:34:43 +0100 It seems all or many groups were cancelled. Bad programming on part of Audio Galaxy. Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > Any idea why the previous one was cancelled? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: RE: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 04 Jan 2002 19:36:09 -0500 I recently watched the documentary ("The Battle Over Citizen Kane from the American Experience) on the second disc of the Citizen Kane DVD set in which they really tried to hit home the fact that Kane "ruined" Welles's career. This was an assessment that I hadn't heard before, so is this my naivety showing or was it an exaggeration on the part of the documentary makers? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 04 Jan 2002 16:59:02 -0800 > I recently watched the documentary ("The Battle Over Citizen Kane from > the American Experience) on the second disc of the Citizen Kane DVD set > in which they really tried to hit home the fact that Kane "ruined" > Welles's career. This was an assessment that I hadn't heard before, so > is this my naivety showing or was it an exaggeration on the part of the > documentary makers? > > Zach > > - > No -- he was really stigmatized as being difficult, artsy, and a troublemaker. They recut AMBERSONS without asking, and, after that, he rarely had any kind of real support in Hollywood. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: zornlistgalaxy Date: 04 Jan 2002 21:41:48 EST In a message dated 1/3/02 12:44:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, roballaert@mac.com writes: After me: << >> they (AG) cancelled the ZornListGalaxy group on Audio Galaxy > Well *that* sucks. Oh well-you're all invited to join the Big Ugly > Sharks group of which I'm dictator. We're more of a prog/punk group Does anyone else have a Galaxy group that isn't into punk ;-) ??? >> Looks like AG wiped out *all* of the interest/user groups. I was a member of four there and none of them show up now. Could be a glitch... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: graham connah Subject: a breaking leak of sorts Date: 04 Jan 2002 20:15:22 -0800 below is basically hearsay but the source is reputable. expect a tzadik release in the not-too-distant future, i guess. "....Just got back from a Cobra recording session with Dresser, Feldman, Friedlander, Cyro Baptista, Ibarra, Jennifer Choi, Trevor Dunn, good fun.... yes, Zorn prompted. Jim O'Rourke showed up. Zorn thought he was bringing his power book, but as it blew up, Jim brought some not-so versatile 60's ring modulator electronic get-up. Zorn sent him home before the session even started. So Annie Gosfield filled in.... He's re-recording all of his game pieces (I think all of them) and releasing them on Tzadik." --GC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alan Subject: Re: a breaking leak of sorts Date: 04 Jan 2002 23:31:59 -0500 >below is basically hearsay but the source is reputable. expect a tzadik >release in the not-too-distant future, i guess. > >"....Just got back from a Cobra recording session with > Dresser, Feldman, Friedlander, >Cyro Baptista, Ibarra, Jennifer Choi, Trevor Dunn, >good fun.... yes, Zorn prompted. Jim O'Rourke showed up. Zorn >thought he was bringing his power book, but as it blew >up, Jim brought some not-so versatile 60's ring >modulator electronic get-up. Zorn sent him home >before the session even started. So Annie >Gosfield filled in.... He's re-recording all of his game pieces (I think all >of them) and releasing them on Tzadik." I heard that derek was a plucking on that cobra session -alan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: RE: All's Well That Is Welles? Date: 04 Jan 2002 23:37:34 -0500 >in which they really tried to hit home the fact that Kane "ruined" >Welles's career. This was an assessment that I hadn't heard before, so >is this my naivety showing or was it an exaggeration on the part of the >documentary makers? The documentary does go a bit out of its way to blame Welles--it doesn't hesitate to point out irrelevant character excesses--but he was definitely resented by much of Hollywood for being an outsider with no film experience (well, some trivial ones that hardly anybody knew about) who was given an unheard-of total control contract. And it certainly didn't help that Welles not only made the best of his freedom but also got on the bad side of Hearst which reflected on the entire industry. That resentment is one reason Kane only won one Oscar. On Ambersons RKO used Welles' absence from the country (making a wartime Good Neighbor film at the personal request of Nelson Rockefeller) and a supposedly negative preview (actually almost half the responses were favorable) as license to re-work the film and then destroyed the footage so it couldn't be restored. Even David Selznick requested that a print of the original Ambersons (actually never more than a rough cut) be deposited at MOMA but RKO refused. Kane and Ambersons actually did lose money but they were prestige projects to begin with and it's pretty clear that the studio didn't give them a real push anyway. From all this Welles got a reputation of being difficult and always running over-budget, charges which aren't really true since he proved that he could bring a studio film under budget and under time. And he was willing to compromise as his memoes on Ambersons and Touch of Evil show (not to mention his own reworking of Macbeth) but was rarely given the chance. LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Nairn" Subject: foreign synth pop Date: 05 Jan 2002 08:11:34 hey zornlist, I heard the end of some Italian 80s song on some tape in class. It had lots of dinky keyboards and female vocals singing "doot doot doot." Anyway, it sounded great, and I was wondering if anyone could recommend any foreign language 80s synth pop/ new wave (french, italian, etc.) similar to early Etienne Daho, or early Mecano. thanks, -Andrew Nairn _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: "foreign" synth pop Date: 01 Jan 2002 18:27:03 +0100 Don't know if it would be kitch enough for you, but the french duo band Rita Mitsouko stood out in the 80's with their new wave intelligence & humor=2E "Le No Comprendo" is their best album, I think (includes "C'est comme =E7a" = and other hits)=2E Might not be "bad" enough for you (they're actually good!), but give it a tr= y=2E DY > I was wondering if anyone could recommend any foreign > language 80s synth pop/ new wave (french, italian, etc=2E) similar to earl= y > Etienne Daho, or early Mecano=2E > > thanks, > > -Andrew Nairn > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: re: top tens of 2001 NO ZC Date: 05 Jan 2002 05:01:06 EST In a message dated 01.04.02 17:29:23, rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu writes: >Prozac Nation - Lauren Selter it's interesting that you mention this book, rob. i read this book early in 2001, and was really into it. if anyone else read it and was interested, a good complementary book to it, which is a little dry but still interesting, is a book called 'toxic psychiatry' by dr. peter breggin. very interesting... (rubs chin like freud) love, kate. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: "foreign" synth pop Date: 05 Jan 2002 05:03:54 EST In a message dated 01.05.02 03:46:40, y-man@wanadoo.fr writes: >Don't know if it would be kitch enough for you, but the french duo band >Rita > >Mitsouko stood out in the 80's with their new wave intelligence & humor. > >"Le No Comprendo" is their best album, I think (includes "C'est comme =E7a" >and > >other hits). > >Might not be "bad" enough for you (they're actually good!), but give it >a try. another foreign language synth pop group (albeit not from the 80s) i would=20 have to reccomend would of course be early stereolab, before they started=20 being almost all in english... emperor tomato ketchup is just such a=20 brilliant album... kp > > ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: foreign pynch pop Date: 05 Jan 2002 12:50:21 -0800 >>>I heard the end of some Italian 80s song on some tape in class. It had lots of dinky keyboards and female vocals singing "doot doot doot."<<< This, and others like it, can be found in Deleuze and Guattari's _The Italian Wedding Fake Book_. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: a few CDs for sale Date: 05 Jan 2002 23:01:10 Hello: As always, sorry if it is tacky to be doing this, but most of these are pretty Zorn-related, plus they are in great shape and I am not asking a lot of $$$ ($7-9 ppd. in the US for most). So, here goes: Bill Frisell - Nashville (Nonesuch) Bill Frisell - Good Dog, Happy Man (Nonesuch) Bill Frisell - Gone, Just Like a Train (Nonesuch) Eugene Chadbourne - Beauty and the Bloodsucker (Leo) Motor Humming - Musical Almunium (Tzadik New Japan Series) Fred Frith - The Traffic Continues (Winter & Winter) Dave Douglas - Parallel Worlds (Soul Note) Uri Caine/Zohar - Keter (Knitting Factory) And slightly less list-related: Ingram Marshall - Fog Tropes (New Albion) UZ Jsme Doma - The Ears (Skoda) Kazutoki Umezu Klezmer Orchestra - Betsuni Nanmo Klezmer (Nani) [this would be a little bit more since it's a hard-to-find Japanese import, but not much more.] I have a few things for trade (only) too -- ask me if you would like to see the (short) list; I finally have it together, so if you asked before, just remind me. I'm not so organized these days. Thanks for looking, WY P.S. The new Tim Berne, 'Open, Coma', is great (as expected). Haven't had time to really digest it; hopefully I can comment more later. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Re: Fwd: Arto Lindsay moovies Date: 06 Jan 2002 00:18:24 +0000 chanel called Muzzik > > > > > > hi! I just saw a movie/documentary on Arto called > > "simply are" and somewere > >Where did you find that?! Any European TV channel or >just a video for sale in stores? (which I'd find >strange). >I'm not a Lindsay heavy-fan but video material is >always interesting. > >Thanks in advance. > >Efrén > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo > > através do MSN Hotmail. > > http://www.hotmail.com/br > > > > > > - > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Messenger >Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. >http://messenger.yahoo.es > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Associe-se ao maior serviço de e-mail do mundo através do MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com/br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: LOLO on disc Date: 05 Jan 2002 19:27:57 -0500 Anyone know where I could possibly get a copy of the Love of Life Orchestra's Extended Niceties/Geneve that was briefly available on disc a few years back? I have (and greatly enjoy) the vinyl but would love to have them on CD. Thanks. Brian Olewnick NP: electrelane - Gabriel (from the WIRE sampler; cool track) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Big Apple Ideas (no Z-con) Date: 06 Jan 2002 01:07:32 +0000 My friend is going to New York City for the first time, so I thought I'd ask everyone on this list for any suggestions of 'cheap' places to stay (Banana Bungalow? Gershwin Rooms? any good?), and things going on while he's there (Jan. 9-17). Thanks. Please email me offlist... np: Can Horrorshow In The Paperhouse _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: AMM Suggestions Date: 06 Jan 2002 18:47:33 +1100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C196E2.9A23D760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want to delve into AMM's discography. Any suggestions? Are "Generative = Themes" and "Newfoundland" generally considered to be worthwhile = purchases? Thanks, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C196E2.9A23D760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I want to delve into AMM's discography. Any suggestions? Are = "Generative=20 Themes" and "Newfoundland" generally considered to be worthwhile=20 purchases?
 
Thanks,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C196E2.9A23D760-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Ligeti project Date: 02 Jan 2002 18:03:14 +0100 A few people mentioned a "Ligeti project" among their Best of 2001 cd's. Could someone shed a light on what it consists of specifically: (Ligeti reworked by other musicians? A compilation of some of his works? New recordings of his complete oeuvre? What label? etc.) Thank you! DY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 12:46:44 -0400 Hello list, the last CD I bought in 2001 was an ESQUIVEL compilation titled SPACE-AGE BACHELOR PAD MUSIC. I've read a lot about him and his music and the rebirth/interest it gained in the 90's. Anyway, I was very surprised to see John Zorn mentioned in the liner notes and how he's considered somekind of a "pop avant-gardist". Well, the lounge/exotica interest has grown in me and I was checking out a collection of albums titled "ULTRA LOUNGE" which are divided in categories as "Film Music", "Swinging", "Mambo", etc. Has anyone listened to this records? Which one do you recommend? What other compilatons or artists/albums do you recommend for this type of music? Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. FAITH NO MORE - album of the year NV. TWIN PEAKS - First Season DVD (Excellent Box) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: ultralounge. Date: 06 Jan 2002 13:06:23 EST in my opinion, all of the ultralounge compilation CDs are good, but there are three which stand out for me: 1. MAMBO MADNESS. this CD is seriously amazing. i don't think it would be nearly so cool except that there is this one song on it with some soprano who takes the high C nastier and more perfectly than any pop singer i've ever heard... oh yeah... 2. ORGANS IN ORBIT. not as cool as mambo madness, but it's pretty hip. it's kind of like what the beastie boys' in sound from way out would have been if it had been done in the 60s and wasn't quite so cool. 3. THE CRIME SCENE. spy themes! i'm partial to this one because i'm writing a big orchestra piece (titled, aptly enough, maxwell smart) based on fugues i'm writing on spy themes. plus there are just some filthy nelson riddle orchestra performances. the ultralounge series is particularly great because all of the stuff is mixed down to 24 channel hi-fi... love, k8. n.p. - k.d. lang, live by request. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: ultralounge. Date: 06 Jan 2002 10:50:55 -0800 > in my opinion, all of the ultralounge compilation CDs are good, but there are > three which stand out for me: > > 1. MAMBO MADNESS. this CD is seriously amazing. i don't think it would be > nearly so cool except that there is this one song on it with some soprano who > takes the high C nastier and more perfectly than any pop singer i've ever > heard... oh yeah... And you're probably better off with Perez Prado or Machito comps of the real stuff. The Capitol stuff was largely ersatz stuff. And they picked Chuy Reyes' single dumbest cut. > 3. THE CRIME SCENE. spy themes! i'm partial to this one because i'm writing > a big orchestra piece (titled, aptly enough, maxwell smart) based on fugues > i'm writing on spy themes. plus there are just some filthy nelson riddle > orchestra performances. The Rhino CRIMEJAZZ volumes (there are two) are much better and are actually the real stuff. The UL volume is a lot of knock-offs. > > the ultralounge series is particularly great because all of the stuff is > mixed down to 24 channel hi-fi... and a lot of the mix recreations were misguided and inaccurate. In fact, a few were backwards! > > skip h np: NRBQ AT YANKEE STADIUM - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 05:50:56 +0100 Hi, Neil H. Enet wrote: > I was checking out a collection of albums titled "ULTRA LOUNGE" which are > divided in categories as "Film Music", "Swinging", "Mambo", etc. Has anyone > listened to this records? Which one do you recommend? What other compilatons > or artists/albums do you recommend for this type of music? I loved one volume titled "Mondo Exotica" which would be perfect for what you seem to be looking for. Lots of Martin Denny material if my memory serves. I like almost everything I've listened from the Ultra-Lounge series which are, at least in Spain, really really cheap Cds with a very good-looking design. > NP. FAITH NO MORE - album of the year A very disappointing goodbye by FNM, IMHO. I was expecting a better follow-up for "King for a Day", one of my favorite records. > NV. TWIN PEAKS - First Season DVD (Excellent Box) It seems one can't go wrong with Lynch. I'm not sure if the first season in the US coincides with the messy broadcasts in my country, but it is surely the best, at least until Lynch took back the control in the last episode. (or was it the last but one?). For me, the best TV series ever. Best regards, Efrén _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: esquivel Date: 06 Jan 2002 15:49:33 EST In a message dated 1/3/02 7:23:19 PM, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << what other compilation or albums do you recommend? Thanks > Neil H. Enet >> hi neil esquivel is/was a mexican bandleader who had fun in the studio much as the piano-duoists ferrante and teicher, also once thought to have been mere mood music or kitsch at best, used cleverness and a wee touch of technology to MSG up the music. in mexico exists tons of his original rca mexico Cds, usually at midprice, as well as fullprice anthologies. other folks there know the american compliations better. i enjoy a 2LP on one CD "juan garcia esquivel" rca mexico cdc 743213223322, 24 cuts rec from 1954-62. the sounds are brassy with mexican background singers much as youd find with american 50s and 60s white pop 'cool' vocal groups- many of whom used the same latin rhythms. nifty bent guitar stuff- tho more hawaii than tronzo, not _that_ much more so- the whole stuff is a blast. steve koenig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 20:26:48 +0000 >From: "Neil H. Enet" >Hello list, > > >I was checking out a collection of albums titled "ULTRA LOUNGE" which are >divided in categories as "Film Music", "Swinging", "Mambo", etc. Has >anyone >listened to this records? Which one do you recommend? What other >compilatons >or artists/albums do you recommend for this type of music? I don't know if they're specificly part of the Ultra Lounge series but EMI has 2 double disc sets of exotica sounds from the masters, Martin Denny and Les Baxter, both have the U.L. tiki idol artwork and well chosen selection of tunes... np: Laibach 'Nova Akropola' _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 10:46:51 -0800 > Hello list, > > the last CD I bought in 2001 was an ESQUIVEL compilation titled SPACE-AGE > BACHELOR PAD MUSIC. I've read a lot about him and his music and the > rebirth/interest it gained in the 90's. Anyway, I was very surprised to see > John Zorn mentioned in the liner notes and how he's considered somekind of a > "pop avant-gardist". Well, the lounge/exotica interest has grown in me and > I was checking out a collection of albums titled "ULTRA LOUNGE" which are > divided in categories as "Film Music", "Swinging", "Mambo", etc. Has anyone > listened to this records? Which one do you recommend? What other compilatons > or artists/albums do you recommend for this type of music? > Les Baxter -- Ritual Of The Savage Robert Drasnin -- Voodoo Martin Denny -- Exotica Vols 1,2,3 Creed Taylor -- Shock Music In Hi-Fi/In Stereo (music by Kenyon Hopkins) Leo Diamond -- Skin Divers Suite Frank Hunter -- White Goddess Yma Sumac -- Voice Of The Xtabay The Ernie Kovacs Record Collection (my fav comp of the stuff) The Ultra Lounge series is okay, but it tends toward the surfacy stuff and hits, so the overview you get is limitied. RHAPSODESIA is the best one in the series. The same guy who did UL did a Les Baxter package called EXOTIC MOODS OF LES BAXTER, but it left off a lot of what Les considered his best work. Still, it's pretty okay and is easy to find. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 17:19:24 -0500 Hello, ....since we're on the subject and his name came up, I'd recommend "Exotica! The Best of Martin Denny" which I'm guessing should still be in print from Rhino records. Rhino comps often range in quality, but I thought this one was well done. This stuff lacks the stereophonic wildness of Esquivel (and the "ZuZuZu" vocalizings, which are so much fun),yet plenty of unexpected things happen. There are changes toward the end of "Stone God" that come so abruptly that they remind me of tape splices. The rhythms are insanely solid and uh, exotic (ya get shakers, bongos, vibes, plucked and rubbed strings, and lots of keyboards to go with the animal sounds, train whistles, etc.). He even takes on Duke's "Caravan". I first heard about this stuff because indusrialists like Throbbing Gristle and Boyd Rice talked it up, and the notes of the above CD were penned by the publishers of Amok press, which I think is now defunct. I haven't reread them to check, but I remember them as being well done. Probably the best decision Rhino made was focusing only on stuff Denny did in the '50's, instead of opting for a career spanning retrospective type deal. If lounge and exotica are genre's that fall into yr bag, than this disc should satisfy. A friend recently lent me a rediculously kitschy and thoroughly, achingly enjoyable Billy May album titled "Today!" that any fan of Esquivel should snatch up if they find it. I mean, it actually gave me gooseflesh and made me blush while listening to it....by myself. Amongst new reactions to this type of stuff, I always kinda dug the 1st Combustable Edison on Sub Pop, titled "I, Swinger". I won't mount an elaborate defense of it if anyone attacks it, but their cover of Rota's "Cadillac" made it worth snatching from the used bin from whence it came. While we're on the subject, anyone want to speak up or down re: Perrey and Kingsley's "The In Sound From Way Out"? Watching my area's 1st snowfall of the year out my window.... I remain... Joseph NP: Traffic S/T CD NR: William Faulkner "As I Lay Dying" Sound Collector #7 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 06 Jan 2002 15:56:26 -0800 The Denny Rhino comp is indeed excellent. AMOK Books, by the way, is still happening, and they also have a CD out. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: malczewski@earthlink.net (Frank Malczewski) Subject: Re: Arto Lindsay movies Date: 06 Jan 2002 17:35:24 -0700 I was scouring upcoming dvd releases for anything of interest, and there's one with him in it supposed to come out in June called "Downtown 81". dvdplanet.com has a description (which I was not able to cut/paste...) That blurb doesn't mention Arto, but this one does (from allmovie.com): Originally shot in 1980-81, this film, directed by Edo Bertoglio, is a rare real-life snapshot of ultra-hip subculture of post-punk era Manhattan. Starring renowned artist Jean Michel Basquiat (who died in 1988 at age 27) and featuring such early Village hipsters as Melle Mel, John Lurie, and Lydia Lunch, the film is a bizarre elliptical urban fairytale. The film opens with Jean (Basquiat) in the hospital with an undisclosed ailment. After checking out, he happens upon an enigmatic woman, Beatrice (Anna Schroeder), who drives around in a convertible. He arrives at his apartment only to discover that his landlord is evicting him. Later, while trying to sell his art work, he meets up with musician Arto Lindsay and his band DNA. Jean eventually does manage to sell some of his art work to a rich middle-aged woman who is interested in more than just his art, but she pays with a check. As the film progresses, he wanders the streets of New York, looking for Beatrice. He happens upon a bag lady (Debbie Harry) who turns into a princess when he kisses her. As a reward, she gives him a stack of cash. Abandoned in the mid-'80s due to financial problems, producer Maripol Fauque rediscovered the film and cleaned it up in 1999. It was screened at the 2000 Cannes Film Festival. -- Jonathan Crow I'd never seen or heard of it before. --Frank - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kasra@ou.edu Subject: Wanted: Synth Date: 06 Jan 2002 19:28:21 -0600 (CST) Hey Everybody, I'm sure we've got plenty of gearheads on the list (myself included). So I was wanting to see if anybody could recommend some of the better Digital synths that employ analog features. I'm particlarly interested in bass output and overall lower frequency issues. I have already been to www.sonicstate.com and found it to be quite usefull. I just wanted to see if anybody has had any really good and realy bad experiences. Please share... much peace, kasra george ahmadi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #673 Date: 06 Jan 2002 22:20:46 -0500 It's new recordings of Melodien, Chamber Concerto, Piano Concerto and Mysteries of the Macabre (a premiere). Pierre-Laurent Aimard Piano, Shoenberg and Asko Ensembles. it's on Teldec/New Line. They're picking up where the aborted Sony series dropped off, apparently. Ligeti and Aimard wrote the liner notes. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1904 18:03:14 +0100 > From: duncan youngerman > Subject: Ligeti project > > A few people mentioned a "Ligeti project" among their Best of 2001 cd's. > > Could someone shed a light on what it consists of specifically: (Ligeti > reworked by other musicians? A compilation of some of his works? New > recordings of his complete oeuvre? What label? etc.) > Thank you! > DY > > > - - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge (reading) Date: 06 Jan 2002 22:46:46 -0500 I first heard about this > stuff because indusrialists like Throbbing Gristle and Boyd Rice talked it > up, and the notes of the above CD were penned by the publishers of Amok > press, which I think is now defunct. Didn't they do sort of Journal of strange things people do to themselves? I remember browsing in a bookstore once and chancing upon a book by that publisher. It had a wonderful article on trepanning, and lots of other interesting stuff that I can't remember now. Damn, wish I'd picked up up. I haven't reread them to check, but I > remember them as being well done. Probably the best decision Rhino made was > focusing only on stuff Denny did in the '50's, instead of opting for a > career spanning retrospective type deal. If lounge and exotica are genre's > that fall into yr bag, than this disc should satisfy. If you want to do some reading about the subject, you ought to check out David Toop's book "Exotica". To be honest, I don't have a tremendous interest in the music, but Toop is a fine, fine writer. > NR: William Faulkner "As I Lay Dying" As is Faulkner. Nirav (still reeling from the outright failure of a film festival he was part of organizing) -- AIM: Icefactory37 OnNow- DJ Food- Quadreceptor ep NR- William Faulkner- Absalom, Absalom "Wheeler: A game-legged old man and a drunk- that's all you've got? Chance: That's *what* I've got" -from 'Rio Bravo' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Amok Books (was Esquivel) Date: 06 Jan 2002 22:53:58 -0500 >Didn't they do sort of Journal of strange things people do to themselves? I I think Amok may be out of business since their website is down, phone disconnected, email bounces and their distributor no longer has the books. Anybody know for sure? Thanks, LT Adventures In Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm Outsider Music Mailing List http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm Documentary Sound http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm Full Alert Film Review http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Amok Books (was Esquivel) Date: 06 Jan 2002 21:05:40 -0800 >> Didn't they do sort of Journal of strange things people do to themselves? I > > I think Amok may be out of business since their website is down, phone > disconnected, email bounces and their distributor no longer has the books. > Anybody know for sure? > > Thanks, LT > The store was sold, but Stuart Swezey -- one of the two original publishers -- has kept the imprint alive, and there's another John Gilmore book in the works. I'm not sure what's up with the the website, however. Dionysus has picked up the AMOK compact disc (a John Gilmore reading-with-music project). Also, Stuart recently became a dad, and also holds a day job, and the combo of the two is alleged to slow down even the most prolific guy. He did, however, put some time aside to be in my wedding this past October. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge (reading) Date: 06 Jan 2002 21:08:49 -0800 Probably the best decision Rhino made was focusing only on stuff Denny did in the '50's, instead of opting for a career spanning retrospective type deal. Good thing, too. After about 1961, Bob Florence is the pianist and arranger on most of the Martin Denny records. The bulk of the sxities ones were cut in Hollywood, by local studio whiz kids. Gary Burton was even on one session. > > If you want to do some reading about the subject, you ought to check out > David Toop's book "Exotica". To be honest, I don't have a tremendous > interest in the music, but Toop is a fine, fine writer. > Toop's book is really fantastic. He really GETS IT, big time. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com np: Ellery Eskelin, The Sun Died (my fav record for Ribot) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Amok Books (was Esquivel) Date: 06 Jan 2002 21:05:35 -0800 >>>I think Amok may be out of business since their website is down, phone disconnected, email bounces and their distributor no longer has the books. Anybody know for sure?<<< They are very much alive and well, through the looking-glass: http://www.komabookstore.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Amok Books (was Esquivel) Date: 06 Jan 2002 21:14:59 -0800 >>>> I think Amok may be out of business since their website is > down, phone > disconnected, email bounces and their distributor no longer has > the books. > Anybody know for sure?<<< > > They are very much alive and well, through the looking-glass: > http://www.komabookstore.com/ > That's the guy Stuart sold the store to. Extremely knowledgable guy. The landlord yanked the Vermont Av store and rented the space for megabucks to that rarest of things -- a super-trendy Vermont Av clothing store (as if this town didn;t have enough negative stereotype enforcement). skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lev \"Ljova\" Zhurbin" Subject: The breakthrough theory of the day Date: 07 Jan 2002 05:35:25 -0500 It's fun to prophesize at 5am! For the article, please visit: http://ljova.com/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=6&forum=2&0 Your ideas and suggestions are very much encouraged and appreciated. Thank you so much. Warmest, Ljova - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andy Marks Subject: Naked City live Date: 07 Jan 2002 04:14:23 -0800 (PST) Just received the following from an upcoming releases email from www.ear-rational.com. Didn't think I'd be seeing it this soon. Naked City - Naked City Live Vol. 1: Knitting Factory 1989 [TZ7336:f] Tzadik "After over ten years, Tzadik is finally releasing an exciting series of live recordings by one of the most unique and infamous bands ever: Naked City. Featuring Bill Frisell, Fred Frith, Wayne Horvitz and Joey Baron this was a true downtown supergroup brought together to realize John Zorn's twisted compositional vision combining jazz, movie soundtracks, rock, rhythm and blues, hardcore punk, cartoon music, country and western and just about everything imaginable -- often all in the same piece! This first volume is a beautifully recorded document of the band early on, performing live at the club that served as home base from their very first concert series in 1988 to their very last in 1993. Captured here performing the repertory of their legendary first recording many months before they entered the studio, this is Naked City at its gritty/fast changing best. New solos, wilder improvisations and some original compositions and covers that never appeared on disc make this an absolute must for all the Naked City fans around the world." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: Japanese Zorn and Others Date: 07 Jan 2002 13:53:13 +0100 (MET) Received the following promo the other day: =46red Frith, Yoshisabu Toyazumi, Onnyk & John Zorn, _Ars Longa Dens Brevis_ (Allelopathy) It would seem to be live gallery performances from Japan. Not really my cup of tea (noisy and squonky). If anybody is interested in trading for specific items I am looking for, get in touch off list. All the best, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Ligeti project Date: 07 Jan 2002 07:21:43 -0600 duncan youngerman wrote: >A few people mentioned a "Ligeti project" among their Best of 2001 cd's. > >Could someone shed a light on what it consists of specifically: (Ligeti >reworked by other musicians? A compilation of some of his works? New >recordings of his complete oeuvre? What label? etc.) >Thank you! >DY Following the suspension in-progress of the Ligeti Edition produced by Sony Classical (eight volumes published all, I think, still in print), Teldec picked up where that series ended with The Ligeti Project 1, a disc of new recordings of Melodien, Chamber Concerto, Piano Concerto and Mysteries of the Macabre. Despite Teldec's apparent problems, the last I heard they were committed to finishing the proposed series of recordings of Ligeti's music. So, eventually (with luck as who knows how likely it is that Teldec will really complete the project) there should be a series of recent, composer-supervised recordings of all of Ligeti's music spread out over the two labels. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 USA 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fal=E7ata-Galia_Recordings?= Subject: EVA Releases Date: 07 Jan 2002 06:34:27 -0800 Hello Folks; Does anyone know where one could find a listing of the EVA catalogue from Japan? I remember it going out of print. There was some 4 CD box from the label about Degenerate Music or Entarte Kunst which I seek, and I'd be interested in doing some reissues of some of that catalogue. Regards, Rudy Carrera Falçata-Galia Recordings / Tariff Records PO Box 134 - Rialto, California 92377 - USA http://www.falcata-galia.com http://www.tariffrecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Verstraeten Stefan" Subject: Re: wanted synth Date: 07 Jan 2002 16:32:35 +0100 Hello Kasra, I personally use and own -Korg MS2000 -Roland JP8000 Both synths work in a analogue way, so expect lots of knobs and real-time changeable soundfeatures. But the advantage of those synths is that you can store all the settings when you just found an incredible self-created sound. As I like to play dark ambient and controlled feedback, I suggest that you stick with those intstruments. Both have adjustable bass and treble knobs (and I mean more than one) that can produce in real time just the sound that you want without having to read a 300 page manual... just plug and play. If you have to choose between one of them I would go for the roland. It is more expansive but this instrument has the possibility to add another signal (microphone, but also a guitar, a cd player...) so you can use it as an analogue effect board... This is no commercial promo-talk, but my result when I had too choose for a synth that you are looking for. Personally I also had the opportunity to ask questions to Thomas Lehn and the keyboard player of Arto Lindsay (I cant remember the name right now), both players work with analogue synths. Hope this helps, Stefan Verstraeten n.p. Marc Ribot: Saints Stefan.Verstraeten@belgacom.net ----- Original Message ----- > From: kasra@ou.edu > Subject: Wanted: Synth > > Hey Everybody, I'm sure we've got plenty of gearheads on the list (myself > included). So I was wanting to see if anybody could recommend some of the > better Digital synths that employ analog features. I'm particlarly interested > in bass output and overall lower frequency issues. I have already been to > www.sonicstate.com and found it to be quite usefull. I just wanted to see if > anybody has had any really good and realy bad experiences. Please share... > much peace, > kasra george ahmadi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Skip Hitched (was Amok was Esquivel) Date: 07 Jan 2002 08:25:21 -0800 (PST) --- Skip Heller wrote: > He did, > however, put some time aside to be in my wedding > this past October. Fanfare! Loud public congrats to you and the lucky bride. Just curious: any interesting music for the occasion? I'm waiting for Van Dyke Parks to come cheap, so I can get arrangements for something truly special. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ricardo Reis Subject: Lust Corner Date: 05 Jan 2002 10:23:05 +0000 (WET) > From: "Ricardo Jorge" > > Another great album with Mr Ribot: > "lust corner" from Noel Akchote, Eugene chadbourne & Marc Ribot!! I subscribe this too :). Anyway I bought it first because of the cover and then found the music... the last one always makes me smille. p.s: how many Ricardo's are on this list?! Ricardo Reis "Non Serviam" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Skip Hitched (was Amok was Esquivel) Date: 07 Jan 2002 10:44:22 -0800 > --- Skip Heller wrote: >> He did, >> however, put some time aside to be in my wedding >> this past October. > > Fanfare! Loud public congrats to you and the lucky > bride. Just curious: any interesting music for the > occasion? I'm waiting for Van Dyke Parks to come > cheap, so I can get arrangements for something truly > special. > > -----s Well, my bachelor party was playing with NRBQ in Chicago the night before. At-the-wedding music -- Carole Simpson played the processional, Dabe Alvin read during the ceremony Chris Montez sang the first dance of the bride and groom (which was "Sabor A Mi"), Lalo Guerrero, the Father Of Chicano Music, sang two love songs, and the East LA All-Star band with whom I usually play (mostly guys fr the Roamncers & the Heartbreakers) played dance music all night (ie R&B), and Chris M. sat in with them a lot. Van Dyke is never cheap these days, but you can almost always see him hanging out at the coffee place on Larchmont when he's not working. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: Wanted: Synth Date: 07 Jan 2002 14:31:55 -0800 >Hey Everybody, I'm sure we've got plenty of gearheads on the list (myself >included). So I was wanting to see if anybody could recommend some of the >better Digital synths that employ analog features. I'm particlarly interested >in bass output and overall lower frequency issues. I have already been to >www.sonicstate.com and found it to be quite usefull. I just wanted to see if >anybody has had any really good and realy bad experiences. Please share... >much peace, As far as digital synths that emulate analogs, I'm very fond of the Nord line from Clavia, I have both a Nord Lead 1 and a Nord Modular. Both sound excellent, and the Nord Lead is one of the best keyboard controllers I've ever used. The Nord Modular concept is very interesting, a completely programmable modular synth when hooked up to a computer, plus patches can be stored and played away from the computer. Possibly the most powerful and versatile synth I've owned. If you want real analog, check out the MOTM modular from Synthesis Technology (www.synthtech.com). I'm building one, and it's a monster! -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: S.Kubrik re. (NZC) Date: 07 Jan 2002 23:50:23 +0100 (CET) For all Kubrik's fans in Barcelona, tomorrow starts the retrospective of Stanley Kubrik in the Filmoteca. An oportunity to see all his films including three shorts, but excluding his first film"Fear and desire" and "Paths of Glory". p.s.(for Ricardo Reis):I'm another Ricardo on the list. _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: bungle question... Date: 08 Jan 2002 02:32:50 EST heya all... so, in the liner notes of the bungle clown album, they thanks kronos for almost playing. does anyone have any information about what kronos was going to do and why they didn't do it? or maybe i should email kronos, eh?? ;) love, k8. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: S.Kubrik re. (NZC) Date: 08 Jan 2002 09:24:00 +0100 (CET) HI, > > For all Kubrik's fans in Barcelona, tomorrow starts > the retrospective of Stanley Kubrik in the > Filmoteca. > An oportunity to see all his films including three > shorts, but excluding his first film"Fear and > desire" > and "Paths of Glory". Thanks for the info. I'm going through a Kubrick-obsessive period right now, so it's great news to know that 2001: A Space Odissey will be on the large screen again. BTW, I think there are no more BCN listers other than us. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: New Music for multiple pianos in RealAudio Date: 08 Jan 2002 06:49:16 -0600 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear music for multiple pianos by Clarence Barlow, Steve Beresford/Pat Thomas/Veryan Weston, Jean-Luc Fafchamps, Morton Feldman, and Conlon Nancarrow. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program, featuring music by Ellen Fullman for her invention the Long String Instrument is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Saleski Subject: Re: Esquivel/Easy Listening/Exotica/Lounge Date: 08 Jan 2002 10:57:13 -0500 for those of you anywhere near boston you should check out the radio show "Martinis With Mancini" on the umass/lowell radio station wjul (91.5fm). the show is on every friday morning from 6-9 am. it's also streamed on the web: http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Booth/8007/ i've been introduced to tons of cool lounge/exotica by this show (including equivel). -- Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com | http://www.foliage.com/~marks "Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Arto lindsay Ecomixes Date: 08 Jan 2002 16:07:54 +0000 hi! I was wondering if anyone managed to get their hands on this & were did you bought it??For how much and is it worth the trouble I've been getting to try to find a copy? np- Rootless cosmopilitans - Marc Ribot (BEATIFULLL record!!!) _________________________________________________________________ O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar e imprimir as suas fotos: http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chuckp8@juno.com Subject: Late Top 2001? Date: 08 Jan 2002 08:40:31 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5544.34b7.0e76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In no particular order... Releases The Coup - Party Music Erase Errata - Other Animals Lightning Bolt - Ride The Skies Wolf Eyes - Dread Jackie O'Motherfucker - Magick Fire Music Acid Mothers Temple - Absolutely Freak Out! Alemu Aga - The Harp Of King David (Ethiopiques #11) fantomas - The Directors Cut Metalux - Florescent Towers Joseph Suchy - Canoeing Instructional New To Me In 2001 LeShok - We Are Electrocution ('00) Thai Elephant Orchestra Tangerine Awkestra Liliput / Kleenex Chicks On Speed - Rereleases of the Unreleases Reissues Langley Schools Music Project --- Innocence and Despair Parson Sound/Harvester/International Harvester --- s/t Talk Talk --- Missing Pieces Compilations New York City - Global Beat Of The Boroughs Troubleman Mix Tape Tigerbeat6 Inc. Nigeria 70 3xCD LIVE Acid Mothers Temple Wolf Eyes Mecca Normal New Pornographers .. ----__JNP_000_5544.34b7.0e76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In no particular order...
 
Releases

The Coup - Party Music
Erase Errata - Other Animals
Lightning Bolt - Ride The Skies
Wolf Eyes - Dread
Jackie O'Motherfucker - Magick Fire Music
Acid Mothers Temple - Absolutely Freak Out!
Alemu Aga - The Harp Of King David (Ethiopiques #11)
fantomas - The Directors Cut
Metalux - Florescent Towers
Joseph Suchy - Canoeing Instructional
 
New To Me In 2001
 
LeShok - We Are Electrocution ('00)
Thai Elephant Orchestra
Tangerine Awkestra
Liliput / Kleenex
Chicks On Speed - Rereleases of the Unreleases
 
Reissues
 
Langley Schools Music Project --- Innocence and Despair
Parson Sound/Harvester/International Harvester --- s/t
Talk Talk --- Missing Pieces
 
Compilations
 
New York City - Global Beat Of The Boroughs
Troubleman Mix Tape
Tigerbeat6 Inc.
Nigeria 70 3xCD
 
LIVE
 
Acid Mothers Temple
Wolf Eyes
Mecca Normal
New Pornographers
 
 
 
 
..
----__JNP_000_5544.34b7.0e76-- ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: bungle question... Date: 08 Jan 2002 18:16:36 +0100 (CET) Hi, > so, in the liner notes of the bungle clown album, > they thanks kronos for > almost playing. does anyone have any information > about what kronos was going > to do and why they didn't do it? or maybe i should > email kronos, eh?? ;) Further to Kate's question, I've read so much about Patton's collaboration with the Kronos Qt. What was that collab about? It hasn't been officially recorded, has it? Best, Efrén del Valle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeni Dahmus" Subject: RE: bungle question... Date: 08 Jan 2002 12:35:05 -0500 Efr=E9n del Valle wrote: > Further to Kate's question, I've read so much about > Patton's collaboration with the Kronos Qt. What was > that collab about? It hasn't been officially recorded, > has it? From Frequently Asked Questions on the Kronos site (www.kronosquartet.org/talk.htm): "Can you tell me more about your collaboration with Mike Patton and Mr. Bungle?" "Mr. Bungle wrote a piece for Kronos, but it has not been recorded." No further explanation is given. I heard that Kronos was unable to play due to other commitments. Also, Faith No More credits Kronos with samples used for "Malpractice" on Angel Dust.=20 Jeni - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Naked City Live-Knitting Factory V 1 Date: 08 Jan 2002 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) Release date for this album is Feb. 26th, according to the CDNOW web site.... I wonder what the set list is...? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Late Top 2001? Date: 08 Jan 2002 17:46:32 EST In a message dated Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:14:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuckp8@juno.com writes: > Talk Talk --- Missing Pieces How is this one? Been tempted to pick it up as I adore those final 2 albums by the group... -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Fw: [talk 19] Juan Garcia Esquivel 1918 - 2002 Date: 08 Jan 2002 22:32:24 -0500 > Mexican composer and musical innovator Juan Garcia Esquivel died last > Thursday, from complications resulting from a stroke. He was 83... > > http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/13640 > > --Ian Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 "One can not be at the same time all eye and all ear. "- Robert Bresson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Miles and Jack Johnson Date: 08 Jan 2002 23:18:55 -0500 Does any one know the exact release date for the upcoming Complete Jack Johnson sessions box set? On a related note, I recently picked up the new Live at the Fillmore East from the "Lost Quintet." It's incredible. It allows you to better hear how Miles went from his quintet to Bitches Brew and beyond. That and the playing (especially Shorter and Corea) is just top notch. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: tim berne's compositional style Date: 09 Jan 2002 15:54:03 +1100 I have been listening a bit to Bloodcount lately, and I was hoping to get a bit more insight into how Berne's tunes are written down. I could simplify what I am hearing as 'long passages of free stuff, some written stuff, free stuff, written stuff, etc.' but I just think there must be more to it. For example, the free stuff may have some parameters as to who is going to play, in what mood, etc. Any ideas would be much appreciated... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: jack johnson Date: 09 Jan 2002 00:41:48 -0500 hi all a quick note on Jack Johnson and that Sonny Sharrock interview in Guitar magazine circa 11/90 or so: the magazine issue had both Jeff Beck and Stevie Ray Vaughn on the cover (they were finishing up an AWEEEEESOME tour together wherein every show ended with an all-out jam between both bands) and the Sonny interview was possibly the longest I've seen, and it had this cool note on 'Jack Johnson'. Apparently Chick Corea was manning the knobs on Sonny's effects board while Sonny was playing during that 4/69 session. Seeing that interview years later (in 98) was illuminating cuz i'd always wondered about Sonny's technique (frankly I kept wondering where the extra hands came from, cuz it wouldn't be like Sonny to overdub, and no fool could sell the idea that he was doing it all (they lacked midi foot-controllers in '69). Anyway, the guy who was gonna trade me that issue for a Sabbath bootleg (in 98) spazzed on the whole gay thing, so wahhhh... but if anyone has that Guitar(?)(-World?)(-Player?) issue circa 11/90(?), please consider scanning the Sonny interview and emailing it to Margaret Davis, at . She'll archive it and make it available to others... happy new year! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "patbor" Subject: Gershom Scholem (no musical content) Date: 09 Jan 2002 07:35:35 -0500 Hello, I'm searching for information about Gershom Scholem's major works: - titles and publisher - is English the only language in which they have been translated? Thank You PatB - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Re: Gershom Scholem (no musical content) Date: 10 Jan 2002 00:25:21 +1100 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 11:35 PM > I'm searching for information about Gershom Scholem's major works: > > - titles and publisher > - is English the only language in which > they have been translated? Hi Patb, Scholem's works "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism", "On the Kabbalah and Its Symbolism" and his translation of "Zohar - The Book of Splendour" are all considered to be key texts. All three are published by Schocken. Two other primary works are "On the Mystical Shape of the Godhead" and "Messianic Idea in Judaism." Not sure of the publisher for these two. Hope this helps, Adam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: RIP Esquivel Date: 09 Jan 2002 11:59:51 -0500 JUAN GARCIA ESQUIVEL (1918-2002) Juan Garcia Esquivel, celebrated pianist, composer, bandleader, stereo recording pioneer, and glamorous Space Age Bachelor Pad Music icon, died at his home in Jiutepec, Morelos, Mexico, on January 3, 2002. He was 83. The death was reported by his widow, Carina Osorio vda. de Garcia, and by his son, Mario Eddi Garcia Servin, of Taxco. According to a longtime friend, Steve Reed, of Los Angeles, three months ago Esquivel suffered a stroke, which had left him paralyzed on one side and unable to speak. He recovered in a short time, but suffered a second, more severe stroke on Dec. 30. He died four days later. Esquivel was born on January 20, 1918, in Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico. He was a renowned pianist/bandleader in his native country, garnering much acclaim on stage, television and radio. He starred in and scored two films, "Cabaret Tragico" and "La Locura de Rock'n'Roll," before being brought to the U.S. by RCA Victor Records in 1957. Working primarily in Hollywood, New York, and Las Vegas, the suave maestro recorded prolifically, led an explosive big band, and scored for several TV programs. His elegant, idiosyncratic, and very meticulous arrangements were colored by radical dynamic shifts, playful percussion, wordless vocals, and Esquivel's own virtuoso keyboard runs. When it came to recording sessions, he was notorious for budget-busting extravagance. His offstage life was filled with celebrity hobnobbing (e.g., Sinatra, Liberace, Ernie Kovacs), romantic intrigue (he embodied the charming Latin Lothario mystique), and unfortunate bouts of drinking and prescription drug abuse! that eventually curtailed his success. Many of Esquivel's saucy compositions, such as "Mucha Muchacha," "Whatchamacallit," "Latin-Esque," and "Mini Skirt," have come to symbolize the wild hyper-stereo orchestration of the 1950s and '60s. Ironically, his most familiar composition -- and one for which he is little known -- is the "Universal Emblem," a three-second blast of Wagnerian thunder which has for decades accompanied the Universal Studios logo at the conclusion of hundreds of television programs. "Space Age Bachelor Pad Music," a 1994 Bar/None Records compilation of Esquivel's 1950s-'60s RCA Victor recordings, sparked a resurgence of interest in his work. Simpsons creator Matt Groening declared Esquivel "the great unsung genius of space age pop." Subsequent releases, such as "Music >From a Sparkling Planet" (1995, Bar/None), "Cabaret Mañana" (1996, BMG), and the 40-years-locked-in-the-can "See It In Sound" (1999, 7N), launched his vintage recordings into wide circulation on TV, in films and commercials, and as background music in restaurants, lounges, and stores. Several of his compositions have been used in the soundtracks of major Hollywood films, including "The Big Lebowski," "Four Rooms," and "Beavis and Butt-Head Do America." His riffs have been widely sampled and emulated by audio mixologists and turntable wizards worldwide. The Kronos Quartet recently commissioned and performed a string arrangement of Esquivel's 1967 composition "Mini Skirt." The original handwritten scores for his 24-piece orchestra no longer exist, having reportedly been hauled away as trash years ago when rent was in arrears on a Las Vegas storage facility. Though he was an American citizen, Esquivel moved back to Mexico in the 1980s. For the Televisa network, he composed soundtracks for a children's TV program, entitled "Burbujas" ("Bubbles"). He was inactive in the music business during the 1990s, due to a broken hip and an aggravated spinal injury which left him bedridden and unable to walk. He lived at the home of his older brother, Sergio, in Jiutepec, until Sergio's death in 1999. Esquivel then bought and moved to a home in Villas del Descanso, also in Jiutepec. In May 2001, Esquivel married 25-year-old Carina Osorio, who had assisted the ailing legend as a home health care aide for several years. They were wed in a simple ceremony administered by a justice of the peace at Esquivel's home. Esquivel claimed that Carina was his sixth wife. He had married and divorced twice while residing in the United States. He described Carina as "a simple girl, who is attentive and honest," adding, "I am very happy, and she is too. We both stay up until 2:00 in the morning, and she helps me. Our house is not too big, not too small. Just for the two of us, it is nice. It has a nice garden." A film biography about the Space Age Pop avatar is in script development at Fox studios, with John Leguizamo slated to star and Alexander Payne signed to direct. Per his wishes, Esquivel's remains were cremated, and his ashes were returned home with Carina. -- Irwin Chusid 1/8/02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Jesse Harris Date: 09 Jan 2002 12:01:53 EST Has anyone on this list heard of Jesse Harris or his band The Ferdinandos? I know they're from NY and have supposedly played the KF. The other members of the band are Tony Scherr and Kenny Wolleson who I am familiar with. They're playing quite a few west coast gigs next week. I was thinking of taking a drive to San Gregorio to see them next Sunday afternoon. Since Harris is listed as guitar and vocals, I was wondering if their music was song oriented or more of a jazz improv kind of thing. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, John Threadgould np Afternoons-Jeb Bishop Trio/Quartet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Jesse Harris Date: 09 Jan 2002 13:07:47 -0500 Wasn't Jesse Harris the guitarist who toured with Tony Levin's "Waters of Eden" band, playing the New Agey stuff from that disc but also riffing on Peter Gabriel, King Crimson and Jimi Hendrix? The name sounds right. Maybe you could find out more at Levin's website, www.papabear.com. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone on this list heard of Jesse Harris or his band The Ferdinandos? I know they're from NY and have supposedly played the KF. The other members of the band are Tony Scherr and Kenny Wolleson who I am familiar with. They're playing quite a few west coast gigs next week. I was thinking of taking a drive to San Gregorio to see them next Sunday afternoon. Since Harris is listed as guitar and vocals, I was wondering if their music was song oriented or more of a jazz improv kind of thing. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, John Threadgould np Afternoons-Jeb Bishop Trio/Quartet - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LostZoro@aol.com Subject: events? Date: 09 Jan 2002 14:48:11 EST Hello list I am in NYC today through sunday. As usual I ran out of time, and I did not do the necessary rooting around for interesting concerts, or plays or cinema here. Can some of you New Yorkers send a few ideas my way. Thanks, Zoch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: DOH! (was Re: Jesse Harris) Date: 09 Jan 2002 14:51:01 -0500 Please ignore that last bit about Tony Levin's band. That guitarist's name was Jesse Gress. Sorry... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone on this list heard of Jesse Harris or his band The Ferdinandos? I know they're from NY and have supposedly played the KF. The other members of the band are Tony Scherr and Kenny Wolleson who I am familiar with. They're playing quite a few west coast gigs next week. I was thinking of taking a drive to San Gregorio to see them next Sunday afternoon. Since Harris is listed as guitar and vocals, I was wondering if their music was song oriented or more of a jazz improv kind of thing. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, John Threadgould np Afternoons-Jeb Bishop Trio/Quartet - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: events? Date: 09 Jan 2002 14:54:08 -0500 Zoch: You can find comprehensive listings at www.villagevoice.com or www.timeoutny.com (the latter one of my employers), or simply grab either publication at the local newsstand (the Voice is free, Time Out more comprehensive). You might also check out www.tonicnyc.com and www.knittingfactory.com. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: OT: Sharky's Machine- Let's Be Friends Date: 09 Jan 2002 15:07:53 EST Can anyone here tell me if this NYC-based art/core band's above LP on Shimmy Disk ever made it to CD? -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles and Jack Johnson Date: 09 Jan 2002 15:36:44 EST writes: > Does any one know the exact release date for the upcoming Complete Jack > Johnson sessions box set? That's anyone's guess. Columbia has been late releasing just about all of the (so far 6) boxsets. Here's more info: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~losinp/music/columbia_reissues.html > On a related note, I recently picked up the new Live at the Fillmore > East from the "Lost Quintet." It's incredible. [...] Yeah, it's a great set. Anyone into 70s Miles should definitely pick it up. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Douglas/Mengelberg Date: 09 Jan 2002 16:50:05 -0500 Okay, hands up who recalls when they first laid eyes on a CD. I don't remember myself, though I do remember my friend Gabriel - the first guy I knew who bought a CD player - calling to tell me that he had Scott LaFaro in his living room! Well, today marks the first day I've received an SACD (two actually). Much as I cringe at the prospect of going through the vinyl=>CD thing ever again at least it's worthwhile that the first SACDs I've seen are the new Misha Mengelberg with Dave Douglas, Brad Jones and Han Bennink, as well as Wayne Horvitz. These are both on Songlines. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who actually has an SACD player (does anyone on the list?) how they sound. They sound pretty normal on my CD player. So, remember, as the brochure insert from Sony states, "It's not just a CD, it's a better CD." Okay, and it's not just another way to scoop money from music-lovers, either. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Douglas/Mengelberg Date: 09 Jan 2002 21:27:27 -0800 > Okay, hands up who recalls when they first laid eyes on a CD. > I don't remember myself, though I do remember my friend Gabriel - the > first guy I knew who bought a CD player - calling to tell me that he had > Scott LaFaro in his living room! > My hand is up. It was one of the first Charlie Parker Verve discs. I remember thinking, "Wow, I was right to suspect there was a bass player on these records!" skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 10 Jan 2002 17:39:51 +1100 Hi All, Just received another couple of Erstwhile releases in the mail yesterday and once again I am suitably impressed. Anyone like to comment on what they feel is their favourite release from the Erstwhile catalogue? (I know alot of people on the list dig "Weather Sky".) I would be particularly interested to hear what Jon Abbey's personal fave is. Keep up the great work Jon! Regards, Adam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: DOH! (was Re: Jesse Harris) Date: 10 Jan 2002 01:57:19 EST << Please ignore that last bit about Tony Levin's band. That guitarist's name was Jesse Gress. Sorry... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com<< Fastian@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone on this list heard of Jesse Harris or his band The Ferdinandos? >> Thanks for trying to field that one Steve. I have since found out that he was in a band called Once Blue, if that jogs anyone's memory. I've read lukewarm reviews about that band, but I'm really interested in knowing if anyone has seen the Ferdinandos play or have heard the cd. John Threadgould np La Legende de la Pluie-Hetu/Labrosse/Parkins/Roger/Tenko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 10 Jan 2002 00:05:48 -0800 Keep up the great work Jon! > At this point in the industry, that's a tall f**king order! skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: 2001 favorites Date: 10 Jan 2002 03:05:18 EST [cross-posted] sorry for such a long list, but i listened to a lot this year... Favorite Jazz/Improv of 2001:=20 New Releases: 1. Dave Douglas: Witness (RCA) 2. Vandermark 5: Acoustic Machine/ Free Jazz Classics, Vol. 2 (Atavistic) 3. Drew Gress: Spin & Drift (Premonition)=20 4. Steuart Liebig: Pomegranate (Cryptogramophone)=20 5. Tim Berne: The Shell Game (Thirsy Ear) 6. Masada: Live at Tonic (Tzadik)=20 7. Thomas Mapfumo/Wadada Leo Smith: Dreams and Secrets (Anonym) 8. Matthew Shipp's New Orbit (Thirsty Ear)=20 9. Andrew Cyrille/ Mark Dresser/ Marty Ehrlich: C/D/E (Jazz Magnet) 10. Vinny Golia: Clarient (Meniscus) 11. [Ken Vandermark's] Territory Band-1: Transatlantic Bridge (Okkadisk) 12. Uri Caine/ Ahmir Thompson/ Christian McBride: The Philadelphia=20 Experiment (ropeadope) 13. Greg Osby: Symbols of Light (A Solution) (Blue Note)=20 14. Ori Kaplan Percussion Ensemble: Gongol (Knitting Factory)=20 15. Nels Cline: Destroy All Nels Cline (Atavistic) 16. David Murray Power Quartet: Like A Kiss That Never Ends (Justin Time) 17. Bill Frisell: Blues Dream (Nonesuch) 18. Steuart Liebig/Vinny Golia/Billy Mintz: Antipodes (Cadence) 19. Joe Lovano: Flights of Fancy (Blue Note) 20. Dominic Duval w/ Herb Robertson, Bob Hovey, and Jay Rosen: Asylem (Leo) Still haven't heard Craig Taborn's new one or both of Henry Threadgill's=20 (which are impossible to find in L.A.), but I'm guessing they would've made=20 the list. Reissues/Previously Unreleased: 1. Chris McGregor's Brotherhood of Breath: Travelling Somewhere (Cuneiform)= =20 1973 live=20 2. Henry Threadgill Sextet: Just the Facts and Pass the Bucket (About Time)= =20 1983=20 3. Miles Davis: It's About That Time, Live at the Fillmore East (Columbia)=20 1970 live 4. Sun Ra: Nuclear War (Atavistic, Unheard Music Series) 1982=20 5. Charles Mingus: Charles 'Baron' Mingus, West Coast 1945-1949 (Uptown)=20 6. Miles Davis: The Complete In a Silent Way Sessions (Columbia) 1968-69 7. Don Cherry: "Mu" First Part/ "Mu Second Part (Charly) 1969=20 8. various: L.A.'s Unsung (Nimbus West) compilation of previously issued=20 material from the 80's 9. Art Ensemble of Chicago: A Jackson in Your House/ Message To Our Folks=20 (Charly) 1969=20 10. Luther Thomas Human Arts Ensemble: Funky Donkey (Atavistic, Unheard Musi= c=20 Series) 1973 live 11. Bill Dixon 7-tette/ Archie Shepp and the New York Contemporary 5 (Savoy)= =20 1964 12. Miles Davis: Volume 2 (Blue Note) 1953=20 13. Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers: Live at Birdland, Vol. 2 (Blue Note)=20 1954 14. Bud Powell: The Amazing, Vol. 1 (Blue Note) 1949/51=20 15. Sun Ra & his Solar-Myth Arkestra: The Solar-Myth Approach, Vols. 1 & 2=20 (Charly) 1970-71=20 16. Fred Anderson: Dark Day/ Live in Verona (Atavistic, Unheard Music Series= )=20 1979 live=20 17. Henry Threadgill Sextet: When Was That? (About Time) 1982=20 18. J.J. Johnson: The Eminent, Vol. 1 (Blue Note) 1953 =20 19. Phil Ranelin: The Time Is Now (Hefty) 1973-74=20 20. Miles Davis: Volume 1 (Blue Note) 1952/54 All But Jazz: 1. Bob Dylan: "Love or Theft" (Columbia) 2. Radiohead: Amnesiac (Capitol) 3. Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds: No More Shall We Part (Reprise) 4. Joe Henry: Scar (Mammoth) w/ Ornette Coleman, Brad Mehldau, Brian Blade=20 5. Mark Eitzel: The Invisible Man (Matador) 6. Aphex Twin: Drukqs (Warp) 7. James "Blood" Ulmer: Memphis Blood, The Sun Sessions (Label M) 8. Leonard Cohen: Ten New Songs (Columbia) 9. Olu Dara: Neighborhoods (Atlantic) 10. David Byrne: Look Into the Eyeball (Virgin/ Luaka Bop)=20 Reissues: 1. all (24 albums-worth) of the Fela Kuti reissues, especially 'Koola=20 Lobitos/ The '69 L.A. Sessions,' 'Roforo Fight/ The Fela Singles,' 'Open &=20 Close/ Afrodisiac,' 'Monkey Banana/ Excuse O,' 'Ikoyi Blindness/ Kalakuta=20 Show,' and 'Zombie' (MCA/Universal) 1964-1992 recordings=20 2. various: The Funky 16 Corners (Stones Throw) rare late 60's/early 70's=20 funk 3. Shuggie Otis: Inspiration Information (Luaka Bop) 1974 recording=20 4. various: Afro-Rock, Volume One (Kona) rare 70's recordings=20 5. Pixies: Complete B-Sides (4-AD) [import] 1988-91 Favorite live performances: I went to over 60 shows this year, but these were the most memorable...(all=20 in the Los Angeles area): 1. Dave Douglas/ Witness @ Knitting Factory Hollywood (10/9)=20 2. [Ken Vandermark's] School Days @ Knitting Factory Hollywood (5/26) 3. Vinny Golia Quintet @ The Powerhouse Theatre (8/26) =20 4. Tim Berne/ Paraphrase @ Eagle Rock Community Cultural Center (4/8) 5. Erik Friedlander's Topaz @ the Fenton Building (3/23)=20 6. Sonny Fortune quartet @ Jazz Bakery (7/19) w/ Ronnie Matthews(p), Cecil=20 McBee(b)=20 7. Dave Douglas' Charms of the Night Sky @ Knitting Factory Hollywood (1/12= ) 8. Scot Ray quintet w/ Nels Cline, Jeff Gauthier, Steuart Liebig, and Alex=20 Cline @ Knitting Factory Hollywood (2/18)=20 9. Arthur Blythe quartet @ Jazz Bakery (7/12) w/ Nate Morgan, Roberto Miran= da 10. Peter Brotzmann/Michael Wertmuller duo @ Knitting Factory Hollywood=20 (6/3/01) Honorable Mention: A great day of jazz at the Benefit for Billy Higgins @=20 Musician's Union, Local 47 (3/18): Herbie Hancock/Herbie Laws quintet, Rene=20 McLean quintet, Kenny Burrell quartet, Bennie Maupin septet, Sherman=20 Ferguson's Jazz Union, Charles McPherson quintet, Bonesoir, David Ornette=20 Cherry Band, Kamau Daa'ood trio, Ernie Andrews quintet, LA Multi-School Jazz= =20 Band. So long, Billy=E2=80=A6=20 jeff caltabiano n.p. mike nock/marty ehrlich: the waiting game (2000, naxos jazz) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Tim Berne Date: 10 Jan 2002 08:53:35 >I have been listening a bit to Bloodcount lately, and I was hoping to >get >a bit more insight into how Berne's tunes are written down. I >could >simplify what I am hearing as 'long passages of free stuff, >some written >stuff, free stuff, written stuff, etc.' but I just think >there must be >more to it. For example, the free stuff may have some >parameters as to who >is going to play, in what mood, etc. Any ideas >would be much >appreciated... Man, I wish I could help more; I should be able to. I was at a 'workshop' he did this summer in Vancouver w/ the Hard Cell trio. He was more into playing than talking about his music, but he did answer some questions about his writing. But, they were more about the process of how he writes -- the creative process (procrastinating, read the sports page, etc.) -- than the specifics of his music. I know some other listmembers were there (hi) so maybe they can help ... But, I think the 'written stuff / free stuff (usually with certain musicians specified, it seems) written stuff' blueprint is probably pretty accurate. Cues, eye contact and/or telepathy might have had something to do with Bloodcount too. The new CD, 'Open, Coma' is much more composed. Again, I'd like to say more about this but I need time to digest it more. He has really been on a roll these last few years, though,, and in all sorts of different contexts -- Bloodcount, free improv w/ Paraphrase, big band, the Hard Cell trio, etc..... WY _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: jack johnson Date: 10 Jan 2002 09:01:07 >but if anyone has that Guitar(?)(-World?)(-Player?) issue circa >11/90(?), >please consider scanning the Sonny interview and emailing >it to Margaret >Davis, at . She'll >archive it and make it >available to others... i would like to help, but the mag is in north carolina, and i am in california. you're right about the cover, though. the magazine is guitar player. while we're on the subect, i'd love to see that blind idiot god article (ryan novak?) and would gladly trade something for it ... will (listening to Eugene Chadbourne 'Ayler Undead' -- a mostly good CD from someone who had been frustrating me with a long string of pretty haphazard and spotty CDs recently...) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 10 Jan 2002 12:48:30 +1100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C199D5.1AE0ABE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Just received another couple of Erstwhile CDs in the mail yesterday and = once again I am suitably impressed. Anyone like to comment on what they = feel is their favourite release from the Erstwhile catalogue? (I know a = lot of people on the list have been digging "Weather Sky" of late.) I = would be particularly interested to hear what Jon Abbey's personal fave = is. Keep up the great work Jon! Kind regards, Adam ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C199D5.1AE0ABE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
 
Just received another couple of Erstwhile CDs in the mail yesterday = and=20 once again I am suitably impressed. Anyone like to comment on what they = feel is=20 their favourite release from the Erstwhile catalogue? (I know a lot of = people on=20 the list have been digging "Weather Sky" of late.) I would be = particularly=20 interested to hear what Jon Abbey's personal fave is. Keep up the great = work=20 Jon!
 
Kind regards,
 
Adam
------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C199D5.1AE0ABE0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Gershom Scholem Date: 10 Jan 2002 07:33:18 -0600 > > I'm searching for information about Gershom Scholem's major works: > > > > - titles and publisher > > - is English the only language in which > > they have been translated? > >Hi Patb, > >Scholem's works "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism", "On the Kabbalah and Its >Symbolism" and his translation of "Zohar - The Book of Splendour" are all >considered to be key texts. All three are published by Schocken. Two other >primary works are "On the Mystical Shape of the Godhead" and "Messianic Idea >in Judaism." Not sure of the publisher for these two. > Those last two are also published by Schocken in the US. Don't forget the huge book on the false Messiah, Sabbatai Zevi published by Princeton U Press. As for translations, many of the original German texts have been translated into Hebrew as well as English. Some of the later books may have been published in Hebrew originally. Selected works are probably also available in French & Spanish. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 USA 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 10 Jan 2002 09:26:52 -0800 (PST) > Anyone like to comment on what they feel > is their favourite release from the Erstwhile > catalogue? I think the reason I don't find there to be a dud in the bunch is that each record really seems to move beyond technique, genre, or expectation to develop its own sound-world; most of the records seem like neither first nor full articulations of the new employments of technology, technique, and perception. Seems like e/a improv still has a soft skull, and anything can happen. That's maybe why, especially after the first few releases, it's kind of hard to know what to expect from each successive release. The two records I have the most trouble getting over (i.e. the ones that might not have been the most difficult for me, nor the most accessible, but the most sensually rewarding) are Rowe/Mueller/Sugimoto's THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN, and Le Quan/Mueller's LA VOYELLE LIQUIDE. I've carefully listened to these several times, and heard them dozens of times, and they turn my head around every time, without fail. It's music effectively stripped of melody and harmony in any traditional sense, and maybe stripped of what we usually think of emotion "in" music, but it prickles the hair on my neck every time, and not in a beard-stroking kind of way. Gorgeous! I also love that Ielasi/Sciajno, but it's just too soon to know if it will age as well with me as the first two. -----s np: Miles Davis, IT'S ABOUT THAT TIME (recent sextet 2cd on Columbia) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Fusitsusha Date: 10 Jan 2002 17:34:26 +0000 could anyone record me something from this band? i'll trade for bootlegs or rare albums! _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale já. É gratuito: http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: japanese[underground]prog Date: 10 Jan 2002 10:01:34 -0800 (PST) I found this article interesting and informative. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/features/nihon-no-hardcore/index2.shtml and jz references are everywhere np: the flirts [thanks jon] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Trenkel Subject: Re: Tim Berne Date: 10 Jan 2002 10:08:17 -0800 At 8:53 AM -0800 1/10/2002, William York wrote: >>I have been listening a bit to Bloodcount lately, and I was hoping >>to >get a bit more insight into how Berne's tunes are written down. >>I >could simplify what I am hearing as 'long passages of free >>stuff, >some written stuff, free stuff, written stuff, etc.' but I >>just think >there must be more to it. For example, the free stuff >>may have some >parameters as to who is going to play, in what mood, >>etc. Any ideas >would be much appreciated... > >Man, I wish I could help more; I should be able to. I was at a >'workshop' he did this summer in Vancouver w/ the Hard Cell trio. He >was more into playing than talking about his music, but he did >answer some questions about his writing. But, they were more about >the process of how he writes -- the creative process >(procrastinating, read the sports page, etc.) -- than the specifics >of his music. I know some other listmembers were there (hi) so maybe >they can help ... > >But, I think the 'written stuff / free stuff (usually with certain >musicians specified, it seems) written stuff' blueprint is probably >pretty accurate. Cues, eye contact and/or telepathy might have had >something to do with Bloodcount too. > I had a chance to hang with Berne after a duo show he and Michael Formanek did here, and asked him about some of his compositions, he was really self-deprecating and dismissive of his stuff. He said it had more to do with the players that he was lucky enough to work with than his skills as a writer. Of course, I completely disagree with that, I think he's one of the major composers working right now! -- Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit "This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power" -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 10 Jan 2002 13:12:29 -0500 My favorite is Rowe/Mueller/Sugimoto's World Turned Upside Down, even voted for it in last year's Pazz & Jop poll (even if it's neither pazz nor jop). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Tim Berne Date: 10 Jan 2002 13:06:00 -0500 But, I think the 'written stuff / free stuff (usually with certain >musicians specified, it seems) written stuff' blueprint is probably >pretty accurate. Cues, eye contact and/or telepathy might have had >something to do with Bloodcount too. I actually recorded one of the discs of Unwound, and I definitely think cues, eye contact and/or telepathy were involved. although the pieces were VERY long, I don't recall there being loads of sheet music for everyone. perhaps it's a similar concept to Thomas Chapin's "cells" within tunes(the term is either his or Pavone's, i don't remeber the source) where parts are sketched out, but the duration of any given cell is figured out by the band in performance. sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Douglas/Mengelberg Date: 10 Jan 2002 10:27:18 -0800 (PST) James Hale, demi-God and Icon sez: > >Okay, hands up who recalls when they first laid eyes on a CD. For me, it was the Mission of Burma collection of their entire studio recordings. I recall being blown away that they could fit 80 minutes of music on one disc. Though since then, most CDs seem to top out around 74 minutes. off to NYC to see the Mission of Burma reunion concert! mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: question about Philip Roth Date: 10 Jan 2002 11:25:13 -0800 Sorry for the Zorn unrelated question, but does anybody remember the name of the ex-wife of Philip Roth, and the book she wrote as a reply (?) to I MARRIED A COMMUNIST? Thanks, NP: ORGAN WORKS VOL. 1: Jehan Alain (Naxos) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= Subject: Re: question about Philip Roth Date: 10 Jan 2002 20:21:39 +0000 (GMT) Claire Bloom, 'Leaving A Doll's House': http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1860493165/o/qid=1010693966/sr=8-1/ref=sr_aps_b_1_1/026-8802762-2471649 --- "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > Sorry for the Zorn unrelated question, but does anybody remember the name of the ex-wife of Philip Roth, and the book she wrote as a reply (?) to I MARRIED A COMMUNIST? ===== www.info.net.nz/opprobrium __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: First time I saw a cd, Was: Re: Douglas/Mengelberg Date: 10 Jan 2002 18:47:40 +0100 > Okay, hands up who recalls when they first laid eyes on a CD. > I don't remember myself, though I do remember my friend Gabriel - the > first guy I knew who bought a CD player - calling to tell me that he had > Scott LaFaro in his living room! > There was a shop in my hometown where they sold Pink Floyd's The Wall for $55, and some Dire Straits, I believe it was Alchemy. A friend of mine had techie parents, who owned a very trebly and noisy Let it Bleed cd by The Stones. Soon after that I went crazy buying second hand vinyl records for almost nothing... I only felt the need for a cd player in 1991, when things started to come out as cd-only's. I bought Zappa's You can't do that on stage anymore 1>6 around that time (some of it made it on vinyl, notably volume 2 with Ruth Underwood and George Duke) Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: "Beyond the Ocean"; Fennesz Date: 10 Jan 2002 20:12:25 -0500 I know a lot of folks around these parts are Fennesz fans....the film is showing at Anthology Film Archives in NYC (http://www.anthologyfilmarchives.org). January 24-30 (maybe more....they haven't posted any of their scheduele past Jan.) 7:00 & 9:00 THEATRICAL PREMIERE Tony Pemberton BEYOND THE OCEAN 2000, 87 minutes, color & b/w, 35mm. Music by Christian Fennesz. In Russian and English with English subtitles. This drama explores an unusual niche of American society today: young Russian immigrants in New York City. The story centers around a Russian woman (Dasha Volga) who follows her boyfriend to New York. She arrives without warning, pregnant, penniless, and alone. Worse, her boyfriend is not ready financially or emotionally to support her, and sends her to live with his good friend, a local trip-hop deejay. The film chronicles the journey of a woman caught between the present in New York and memories of her past life in Russia. BEYOND THE OCEAN was nominated for a Jury Award at Sundance Film Festival's Dramatic Competition 2000; director Tony Pemberton was cited by VARIETY as one of "ten directors to watch." "Seldom does a film come around with the striking originality and craftsmanship of Tony Pemberton's BEYOND THE OCEAN. By contrasting different themes and images, he has created a piece of cinematic poetry that gently stirs and furiously shakes the still waters of our souls." -Trevor Groth, Sundance Film Festival Also....do yrselves a favor and catch the Galaxy series (esp. "Text of Light") and the new Bela Tarr movie! Nirav -- AIM: Icefactory37 OnNow- misc Pink and Brown tracks (who *are* these people?) "Wheeler: A game-legged old man and a drunk- that's all you've got? Chance: That's *what* I've got" -from 'Rio Bravo' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Franz Fuchs" Subject: Upcoming Zappa compilation? Date: 11 Jan 2002 02:38:13 +0100 > On Behalf Of Skip Heller > > http://www.skipheller.com http://www.skipheller.com/zappa.htm ("liner notes for upcoming early Frank Zappa compilation") Please do tell when this will be released ;-) Regards Franz Fuchs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Upcoming Zappa compilation? Date: 10 Jan 2002 19:21:12 -0800 > ("liner notes for upcoming early Frank Zappa compilation") > > Please do tell when this will be released ;-) > > Regards > Franz Fuchs > Hopefully, by early spring. We're having to having to help labels generate new paperwork for a few artists, plus the Quicktime movie, plus... If anyone needs a headache, try doing a multi-artist comp where you're dealing with a billion labels. One nice thing I can tell you in advance -- he have STEREO versions (totally unreleased) of all the stuff that came out on Original Sound, and they're not recreated stereo. They're FZ's own. BTW -- Franz -- how did you find out about this so quickly? skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" Subject: three in one (long) Date: 10 Jan 2002 23:21:56 -0700 i figured I'd kind of throw three headings into one message here...I feel like I haven't said anything here in a while so sorry for the length. 1) Gunter Mueller and Taku Sugimoto will play a duo concert at Colorado College on Jan.31. The performance begins at 9:00pm and it is free and open to the public. If you are interested in reserving tickets please call the Worner Desk at (719)635-6800 or e-mail me privately. (I know we're kind of out in the middle of nowhere but hey, I drove 12 hours to see Konk Pack in Tuscon AZ ---- as much for the trip as for the show but...) 2) Favorite erstwhiles... I agree very much with Mr. Scott. In no particular order: Rowe/Mueller/Sugimoto, Mueller/Ninh, Stangl/Kurzmann, Rowe/Nakamura, as well as (after a few skeptical listens) Drumm/Tetreault. These are all recordings which I'm very happy to own. There are a few releases I didn't enjoy: Lehn/Schmickler was far too much for me (don't know what that means). Lehn/Hemmingway was a bit dissapointing although it has good moments. (i do like Dach although I haven't given it the attention it deserves...there are a lot of little noises which my house makes....i don't dislike all Lehn...and I enjoyed the Konk Pack show...) I really haven't heard much else... 3) here are some things which have either provided experiences of ecstatic excitement or which have recieved many listens over the past year (i feel as if I don't really buy too much music these days but I think I'm speaking to a slightly biased jury). Gamelan gong kebyar of "Eka Cita" (World music library) Ornette Coleman live at the Golden Circle Stockholm vol.1 (Blue note) Lowell Davidson trio s/t (Calibre) Bill Dixon Vade mecum II (soul note) Abdoul Doumbia s/t (this is percussion music from Mali W. Africa) Jimmy Giuffre 3, fusion/thesis, (ECM) Rahmnad Krishnan, vidwan, (nonesuch) Fela Kuti, opposite people/sorrow tears + blood, (MCA) Charles Mingus, town hall concert, (original jazz classics) -- especially "praying with eric" which is also titled "meditations on integration" on other recordings Rowe/Nakamura, weather sky, (erstwhile) Toru Takemitsu, I hear the water dreaming, deutsch grammaphone no surprizes here, eh? I feel like I'm kind of re-iterating...we'll call it renforcing or corroborating? Anyway, thanks to the list for recommendations. performances of 2001: AMM 4/5/01 Paraphrase, 4/12/01 Cecil Taylor 11/11/01 Dorner/Kelly/Neumann/Rainey 9/11/01 Abdoul Doumbia, many occasions (disclaimer: I study with him) back to lurking, Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 11 Jan 2002 01:55:13 EST In a message dated 1/10/02 5:44:24 AM, arock01@postoffice.csu.edu.au writes: << Anyone like to comment on what they feel is their favourite release from the Erstwhile catalogue? I would be particularly interested to hear what Jon Abbey's personal fave is. >> hmm, ok, I'll give it a shot. first of all, thanks to all for your kind words, they're nice to read. obviously my relationship with these discs is very different from other people's, in that I usually listen to them (or parts of them, or other material from the sessions) maybe 25-50 times before they're released, and not very much after that. my personal fave right now is the MIMEO/Tilbury-Hands of Caravaggio, which is as remarkable as I could have hoped for, and I'd guess when I hear the Polwechsel/Fennesz material that was recorded earlier this week, that it'll be right up there. anyway, since that's kind of a copout answer, the projects I've released so far that I'm most proud of, both for musical and extramusical reasons, are Schnee, do, dach and Weather Sky in chronological order of release. it's important to me to document a wide range of musicians and approaches within this field, and I couldn't be happier with the range and quality of my catalog so far, especially my 2001 releases, but the above four are the ones that resonate the deepest for me. Scott said: <> perceptive and dead on as usual, Scott. this is a quality I value very highly when selecting projects to release. I'm looking forward to seeing more Erst fave lists, I know there's some more completists out there... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Popkin" Subject: FWD: Pete Cosey Sighting (Laswell Content) Date: 11 Jan 2002 03:02:11 -0500 From another list: I just got hold of a new-ish Japanese CD by saxophonist Akira Sakata called "Fisherman's.com" & was amazed to see that it features Pete Cosey on its 4 tracks. He is unmistakable - playing swathes of fuzzy wah-wah guitar across the music. Of course, the man behind all this is the ubiquitous Bill Laswell, who produces & plays his trademark funk basslines across the whole thing. It is very much a typical Laswell production - if you like that thing, you like it, if you don't, well... Sakata sings gruffly in Japanese & bows his sax in his own idiosyncratic style. Hamid Drake is on drums. It was recorded in Brooklyn at Laswell's studio in 2000 & it's great to see Pete Cosey is back & playing strongly. The CD is out on the Starlets' / Dogtail label EOCD-0002 distributed by Lastrum Corporation / Jasrac - I tracked it down via gemm.com. Best, Stephen "DJ Steve" Popkin Http://home.nyc.rr.com/djsteve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D Dvb" Subject: re: Berne Date: 11 Jan 2002 01:17:00 -0800 In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY? didn't know if you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising was a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks. He also said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or has no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large. On a more informative note, he also mentioned that he comes up with melodies/heads/whatever so that way the band will have a base to improvise off of. Also put over how important the players are. I don't really remember too much...something about not being able to get Hemphill's Dogon AD and other stuff....he played more than talked. BTW, does anyone have a copy of the "Put Blood in the Music" documentary on the NY music scene that they might be willing to make a copy of? I'm willing to trade/pay something reasonable in return... --davy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Berne Date: 11 Jan 2002 01:38:16 -0800 > In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY? didn't know if > you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising was > a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks. He also > said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or has > no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large. That's kind of a loaded, smart-ass statement, and I think it's irresponsible of someline like Tim to say that. There are a lot of fanatical pracitcers who communicate more than adequately (I'm thinkin' Uri Caine for starters). But the hotel room and the coffee ARE important. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: [promo] improv this weekend in Brooklyn and Boston Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:30:19 -0500 Hello all. Apologies for the crossposting and blatant self-promotion. And geographically-limited content. And last-minute notice. Ahem. I'll be playing two shows this weekend and would love to have you if you're not doing anything else (I realize I am competing with the last ever weekend of "The Fantasticks" in NY (!)). I will be playing guitar and electronics at both shows. Fri, Jan. 11, I play solo (not exactly sure what I'm doing yet; probably something noisy) at Local (aka Rock Star Bar) in Williamsburg, Brooklyn with: aluminum noise/cold electric fire bigboote the quickening (members of the fall in love and sunburned hand of the man) 351 Kent Ave., corner of S. 5th. 9:30. I play first. Boston Show: Sat., Jan. 12th. This is Phil Collins, a MIMEO-esque big electronic improvisation ensemble featuring myself, tapes, electronics, keys, synth, contrabass, laptops, etc. Along with: ANDREW NEUMANN - laptop, switches, sensors CURTIS BAHN - sensor bass, electronics 8:30. Cambridge, MA. 312 Broadway (corner of Norfolk St.) Walking distance from the Central Square T stop. www.zeitgeist-gallery.org Thanks a lot, Jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Release Date: 11 Jan 2002 07:17:18 -0500 At 01:55 AM 1/11/02 EST, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >I'm looking forward to seeing more Erst fave lists, I know there's some more >completists out there... While I'm not one of Jon's completists (yet...), I'd like to add Forlorn Green to the list of usual suspects (Weather Sky, Schnee, Do, Voyelle, etc). I'm *really* looking forward to MIMEO and Tilbury, which I anticipate to join the select dozen or so at the top. I also have to mention that Weather Sky was my first introduction to Keith Rowe's non-AMM work, and that as a result I've pursued several other of his solo and other releases, all of which are still opening new sound worlds for me. And the plus side of the label is that even the releases that I don't like as well are still challenging and interesting, and that the label has moved to a trusted position so that I'm willing to try anything Jon puts out. This position is inevitably reserved for labels with relatively small outputs, because sooner or later there's a real clunker, but it hasn't happened yet with Erstwhile. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: new cobra line up Date: 11 Jan 2002 14:16:43 +0000 check out the line up, sounds great!!!! John Zorn, Susie Ibarra, Cyro Baptista, Derek Bailey, Erik Friedlander, Mark Feldman, Jennifer Choi, Sylvie Courvoisier, Jamie Saft, Ikue Mori, Annie Gosfield, Marcus Rojas, Josh Roseman, Mark Dresser, Trevor Dunn -- _________________________________________________________________ Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale já. É gratuito: http://explorer.msn.com.br - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Franz Fuchs" Subject: RE: Upcoming Zappa compilation? Date: 11 Jan 2002 18:41:08 +0100 > From: Skip Heller > > > Please do tell when this will be released ;-) > > Hopefully, by early spring. We're having to having to help > labels generate > new paperwork for a few artists, plus the Quicktime movie, Is the movie Zappa's appearance on the Steve Allen show? > One nice thing I can tell you in advance -- he have STEREO > versions (totally > unreleased) of all the stuff that came out on Original Sound, > and they're > not recreated stereo. They're FZ's own. Great! Maybe we'll have another new record in the near future, as there has been talk about a "February release" from the Zappa Family Trust, which could be (the rumours are vague) a 1976 Australian concert. > BTW -- Franz -- how did you find out about this so quickly? Just good luck ;-) I took a look at your homepage and found - among other interesting things - the Zappa article. Regards Franz Fuchs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: best of 2001 list Date: 11 Jan 2002 15:49:00 -0500 better late than never... not ranked in any way BEST OF 2001 John Zorn - the Gift Zorn puts on his Martin Denny hat for one of his best and most listenable sessions James Blood Ulmer - Memphis Blood: The Sun Sessions Ulmer plays the blues with Vernon Reid Granfaloon Bus Exploded View - another great one from this SF band vaguely americana with fantastic, often oblique lyrics Zoot Horn Rollo We Saw a Bozo Under the Sea solo debut by former Magic Band member. all instrumental He's still got it Sex mob does bond sex mob. need I say more? Mike Keneally Wooden Smoke & Wooden Smoke Asleep newfound "maturity" (i hate that word) from former FZ guitarist. beautiful & largely acoustic Steve Reich - Triple Quartet still the king of good minimalism The Word –The Word Praise Gawd! gospel pedal steel instros with John Medeski Wilco-Yankee Hotel Foxtrot some of the most amazing production touches ever Ori Kaplan Percussion Ensemble-Gongol great new jazz with Susie Ibarra with an almost Alice Coltrane/Impulse vibe Fred Anderson Trio - On the Run: live At The Velvet Lounge The tenor legend with Hamid Drake on drums amazing Bullfrog- bullfrog loose and effortless funk from Kid Koala's band ICP orchestra- Oh my Dog Dutch Jazz Wackos strike again Jah Wobble/Bill Laswell, Radioaxiom Laswell and Wobble dubbing it up King Crimson –Live in Mainz, 1974 Yow! Simian – Chemistry is What We Are cool psychedelic rock VA- Love, Peace & Poetry, Vol. 4: Japanese Psychedelic Music insane vintage psychedelic rock John Zorn –Masada Live at Tonic 2001 Best jazz band in the land? Frank Black – Dog in the Sand the first Frank Black album i could listen to in one sitting The Original Brothers and Sisters of Love - H.O.M.E.S., Vol. 1 homegrown appalachian prog-rock sea-shanties Circulatory System - Circulatory System more psychedelia from William Cullen Hart, Ex-Olivia Tremor Control Richard Lloyd - Cover Doesn't matter former/current Television Guitarist can still tear it up REISSUES John Mclaughlin - Devotion with Larry Young & Buddy Miles the best Acid Rock album ever? Miles Davis – Complete In a Silent Way sessions bliss Sun Ra - Nuclear War fantastic album, thought lost to the ages "It's a motherfucker, don't you know. When they push that button, your ass has got to go!" X – Los Angeles X – Wild Gift X – Under the Big Black Sun sparkling remasters from one of America's greatest bands George Harrison - All things Must Pass this made the list even before he died. Blondie –Parallel Line Blondie – Eat to the Beat great albums from a great band (if you define them by Heart of Glass, think again) Joe Jackson – Look Sharp Joe Jackson- I’m the Man Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True [Expanded] Give me these guys' early snotty years anytime King Crimson-Beat King Crimson- Discipline King Crimson – Starless and Bible Black unbelieveable remastered sound and those mini LP packages! XTC –Drums & Wires XTC- GO2 XTC- English Settlement XTC- Black Sea Dukes of Stratosphear – Chips from the Chocolate Fireball these remasters make the old ones sound REALLY bad had to get 'em from UK Fela Kuti –Zombie classic Fela with live bonus tracks Shuggy Otis – Inspiration Information perhaps a bit over-rated, but cool soul all the same Soft Boys - Underwater Moonlight..And How It Got There Robin's finest moment Love – Forever Changes [Expanded] classic. killer. Asha Bhosle - Best of Asha Bosle: The Golden Voice of Bollywood with around 20,000 songs to her credit, best of seems arbitrary, but it's great fun all the same - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: Favo(u)rite Erstwhile Release Date: 11 Jan 2002 16:18:34 -0500 Just to quickly add my two cents. . . I don't think anyone's really mentioned Drumm and Tetreault's "Particles and Smears" yet, which shares with many records that I end up liking over time an initial impenetrability. What was pretty dense at first revealed itself to be really rich and complex over time. I really appreciated how alien all the sounds and even methods of interaction were, like Drumm and Tetreault totally just started from the ground up. Perhaps it helps that I'm familiar enough with all of Drumm's recordings to more or less be able to separate out his and Tetreault's contributions, but "Particles and Smears" really impresses me with a totally new and honest form of interaction that I don't quite see in Drumm's other records, which maybe hold their cards a bit less close to their chests (and I don't mean that pejoratively; I really like the duos with Taku Sugimoto, for example, but they don't strike me as quite stretching like "Particles and Smears" or Drumm's first solo record, for instance). For what it's worth. . . -Jesse ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 7:17 AM > At 01:55 AM 1/11/02 EST, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > > >I'm looking forward to seeing more Erst fave lists, I know there's some more > >completists out there... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: best of 2001 list Date: 11 Jan 2002 13:20:25 -0800 >>>Zoot Horn Rollo We Saw a Bozo Under the Sea<<< Do I need to try again on this one? I was considering suing whoever I ordered this from because they said it was so great. I thought it was very, very, very unenjoyable. Like Jeff Beck meets Kenny G. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: best of 2001 list Date: 11 Jan 2002 13:30:42 -0800 >>>> Zoot Horn Rollo We Saw a Bozo Under the Sea<<< > > Do I need to try again on this one? > > I was considering suing whoever I ordered this from because they > said it was so great. > > I thought it was very, very, very unenjoyable. Like Jeff Beck > meets Kenny G. > > > > - > Yeah, but his book, LUNAR NOTES, was great. Like the ELVIS: WHAT HAPPENED? of the Beefheart set. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smhalabi@ucdavis.edu Subject: noise/jazz rec's Date: 11 Jan 2002 15:14:59 -0800 (PST) Hi folks, i just joined this list. sorry to bother you, i'm really getting into freejazz, but more specifically, free jazz that integrates other things (ie: not "pure" instrumental free jazz, but the hoots of milford graves, and some of the weird distortion/filtering that i heard in some ascension release, and other things..) i've really been enjoying your posts and recommendations. are there any releases that jump out in your mind? (besides the ones from the last couple of days) i really loved sonny sharrock's reissued "black woman" album. i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews "creation music" release (throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). i also loved the haino/bailey incus release from last year (great vocals!!). i'm excited about listening to some of that tango/70's stuff you guys were talking about. yes, i really like violins. i'm also into musique concrete and field recordings, and international music etc.. if you've already talked about this at wits end before, let me know and i'll dig through the archives oh yes and how could i forget that awesome jon "smoke" tzadik recording!! that is tops. oh yeah, i also really like randy yau's recordings.. ok i keep remembering more and more, i think i should stop before this gets too long.. sondra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: noise/jazz rec's Date: 11 Jan 2002 15:32:31 -0800 I'm strongly recommending Ellery Eskelin and Andrea Parkins GREEN BERMUDAS, which is a saxophone/sampler duet. Ellery is a fantastic musician who could probably be effective if he just played the notes, but he's above and beyond. Definitely worth any thinking listener's time. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" Subject: RE: Favo(u)rite Erstwhile Release Date: 11 Jan 2002 19:20:50 -0700 i agree totally. I was skeptical at first but repeated listens revealed more than I expected. I especially like listening to the album in full as opposed to a few tracks at a time. The durations on this album seem unusually short for an improv. record (something I might have found frustrating). But here the track endings are appropriately placed IMO. Matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: fwd: Sony Legacy klezmer reissues Date: 11 Jan 2002 21:32:27 -0500 >APRIL 16 >LEGACY DEBUTS VINTAGE KLEZMER SERIES FROM AMERICA'S GREATEST ARCHIVE OF UNTAPPED >YIDDISH MUSIC, COLUMBIA RECORDS > >DAVE TARRAS - "Tanz!" >* "Tanz!," recorded by the legendary klezmer clarinetist Dave Tarras in 1956, >was this music's last great hurrah before the klezmer revival began in the >1970s. A rare, out-of-print collectors' LP now digitally restored with bonus >material from the original sessions. > >ABE SCHWARTZ - title to be determined >* Abe Schwartz was the John Hammond and Phil Spector of klezmer music -- >producer, arranger, songwriter, band leader, and Columbia Records talent scout >-- in the early part of the Twentieth Century. This anthology collects his most >historical work. > >VARIOUS ARTISTS - "Avenue A to the Great White Way" >* 2-CD set comprises the essentials of vocal and instrumental Yiddish music in >America after World War I by the original artists who made them famous. The set >traces the transitions of those artists and music from the Lower East Side to >Broadway and worldwide popularity in the 1930s and '40s. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Sony Legacy klezmer reissues Date: 11 Jan 2002 18:52:00 -0800 > >> APRIL 16 >> LEGACY DEBUTS VINTAGE KLEZMER SERIES FROM AMERICA'S GREATEST ARCHIVE OF > UNTAPPED >> YIDDISH MUSIC, COLUMBIA RECORDS >> >> DAVE TARRAS - "Tanz!" >> * "Tanz!," recorded by the legendary klezmer clarinetist Dave Tarras in > 1956, >> was this music's last great hurrah before the klezmer revival began in the >> 1970s. A rare, out-of-print collectors' LP now digitally restored with bonus >> material from the original sessions. This is one of the hoped for anticipated reissues. Tarras and Musiker may not have been Miles and Gil, but this is still an amazing record. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer Subject: George Lewis Reissues Date: 11 Jan 2002 23:06:13 -0500 I know there are some George Lewis fans on the Zorn-list and I recently picked up a couple reissues and thought I would give a couple comments on them. First off, while these are reissues, I had never heard them in the original so they seemed new to me. The Solo Trombone Record George Lewis Sackville 3012 Recorded November 21, 1976 Toronto Sackville is releasing a lot of their "Creative Improvised Music Classics" on the cd format for the first time (in editions of 1000). This record I had always eyed covetously on the George Lewis discography. I had always imagined that this early Lewis solo album would really have something really special to it. In fact I imagined it as George Lewis's equivalent of Peter Brotzmann's "Nothing to Say: A Suite of Breathless Motion" (FMP), a kind of pure and solo statement that captures the essentials of his playing. Perhaps another equivalent is Evan Parker's "Saxophone Solos" (Incus). Well, now that I have heard it, "The Solo Trombone Record" leaves nothing to be desired. It is really pure genius, George Lewis as good as you can hear him. Better than "Voyager", different than "News for Lulu" or "Homage to Charlie Parker", but pure Lewis, and as good as those very good records in its own way. If like me, you weren't into George Lewis in 1976, then you probably missed the original release of this lp. Just passing on the news while the reissue lasts, as I hadn't seen a discussion of it on the list yet. Anthony Braxton (w/ George Lewis, Dave Holland, Barry Altschul) Dortmund 1976 Hatology 557 Recorded October 31, 1976 Dortmund 21 days before recording "The Solo Trombone Record", George Lewis was playing in the Braxton Quartet. I have heard Braxton in a variety of contexts, including Jazz oriented major label releases and completely free improv duets on Incus, but this one with George Lewis and a rhythm section is the best. Sometimes jazzy, sometimes free. Or, always jazzy, always free. Sometimes mathy (I think that term describes some of Braxton's compositions). Anyway, the blurb I read about it credited George Lewis' presence with adding an additional degree of excitement to the music. Well, when you listen to the cd, you can hear the excitement and the playfulness. Altogether very fine. David K. p.s. The Sackville reissues are available through Cadence. Don't know where else. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given Subject: Re: Favourite Erstwhile Releases Date: 11 Jan 2002 21:04:20 -0800 > From: JonAbbey2@aol.com > I'm looking forward to seeing more Erst fave lists, I know there's some more > completists out there... I guess I'm close to one of the completists, as soon as I get around to the two most recent ones so... My favorite so far is Schnee. Simply beautiful, one of my favourite recordings of all time. Suitable for close listening or as background for reading. Others that top my list are, in sort of order, World Turned Upside Down, La Voyelle Liquide, Tom and Gerry, Bits Bots and Signs, Aluminum, and Particles and Smears. You may notice that this list is mostly (and most of) the 2001 releases. All but Tom and Gerry were 2000, I think, and of the 2000 releases just Bart and Requests and Antisongs isn't on the list. Bart isn't there because, as someone else already commented, I find it a bit too intense. Requests and Antisongs isn't there because a) I prefer Butcher non-processed, and b) that would have made my list too long! As for the 2001 releases, I guess my favourite is Stullyps (whatever--it is in a different room)/TV Pow. The rest of them just didn't really grab me as much as some other things I heard this year. And I have to admit that, at this point, I don't get Toshimaru Nakamura. I find what he does intriguing, and I'm glad that Jon is putting this stuff out because I do believe there is great artistic value in what what Nakamura does, but it isn't for me. My copy of Do is filed and may never come off the shelf, my copy of Weather Sky is at a friend's house, and I have told him there is no hurry returning it. As an aside, I did devote about an hour of a radio program to these two recordings, and got four phone calls (more than I've ever gotten about anything I've played in about 6 years of radio). The result: one positive (will buy), one semi-positive (found it interesting, but not enough to buy), the other two very negative (probably turned off their radios after failing to convince me to take it off.) Anyway, keep up the good work Jon. Dan Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: re: free jazz w/ non standard insts. Date: 12 Jan 2002 06:17:10 >into freejazz, but more specifically, free jazz that integrates other >things (ie: not "pure" instrumental free jazz, but the hoots of >milford >graves, and some of the weird distortion/filtering that i >heard in some >ascension release, and other things..) i've really been >enjoying your >posts and recommendations. are there any releases that >jump out in your >mind? have you heard the william hooker/glenn spearman/dj olive cd on knitting factory? it's drums/tenor sax/turntables. considering how good the playing is, this could have just been hooker and spearman and i would still really, really like it (esp. with these great performances), but the turntables add a nice dimension and are well-intergrated -- no cheeky, "clever" stuff, either, thankfully. a lot of people are also big on peter brotzmann's die like a dog quartet (most albums have toshinori kondo on effects-processed trumpet). for some reason, i have not gotten into this stuff as much as some other brotzmann releases. also, i like the ellery eskelin/andrea parkins cd, 'green bermudas', that skip h. mentioned. it is less expressionistic, i guess, than the above albums, but more bizarre. tenor saxophone and accordion/sampling keyboard -- the samples are often really long, and include portions of some of the weird "song poems" of eskelin's dad, rodd keith (cd on tzadik), although these samples are heavily mutated. the last track is possibly the most screwed-up father/son "duets" ever! (yet it is still somehow very moving.) >i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews "creation music" >release >(throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). i haven't heard that, but i saw the two shows by griffin/burns/dionyso in oakland in november. good stuff. (were you at those? i recogzine your name from the spockmorgue list, which i just recently got on...). while i'm on the private hellos, hi davy -- yes, i'm still in SF. and to everyone else, sorry for taking up space ... wy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: re: free jazz w/ non standard insts. Date: 12 Jan 2002 06:17:58 >into freejazz, but more specifically, free jazz that integrates other >things (ie: not "pure" instrumental free jazz, but the hoots of >milford >graves, and some of the weird distortion/filtering that i >heard in some >ascension release, and other things..) i've really been >enjoying your >posts and recommendations. are there any releases that >jump out in your >mind? have you heard the william hooker/glenn spearman/dj olive cd on knitting factory? it's drums/tenor sax/turntables. considering how good the playing is, this could have just been hooker and spearman and i would still really, really like it (esp. with these great performances), but the turntables add a nice dimension and are well-intergrated -- no cheeky, "clever" stuff, either, thankfully. a lot of people are also big on peter brotzmann's die like a dog quartet (most albums have toshinori kondo on effects-processed trumpet). for some reason, i have not gotten into this stuff as much as some other brotzmann releases. also, i like the ellery eskelin/andrea parkins cd, 'green bermudas', that skip h. mentioned. it is less expressionistic, i guess, than the above albums, but more bizarre. tenor saxophone and accordion/sampling keyboard -- the samples are often really long, and include portions of some of the weird "song poems" of eskelin's dad, rodd keith (cd on tzadik), although these samples are heavily mutated. the last track is possibly the most screwed-up father/son "duets" ever! (yet it is still somehow very moving.) >i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews "creation music" >release >(throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). i haven't heard that, but i saw the two shows by griffin/burns/dionyso in oakland in november. good stuff. (were you at those? i recogzine your name from the spockmorgue list, which i just recently got on...). while i'm on the private hellos, hi davy -- yes, i'm still in SF. and to everyone else, sorry for taking up space ... wy _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: another unsolicited 2001 best-of Date: 12 Jan 2002 06:26:30 Don't know what possessed me to do this; I don't think I have ever succumbed to list-making here before. The "reviews," though, are for albums that (to the best of my knowledge) haven't been mentioned by others, so I thought, Why not. Hawd Gankstuh Rappuhs MC's Wid Ghatz - 2 Hype 2 Wype (Wordsound) Over-the-top scatological hip-hop with ridiculous voices, abrasive samples and blown-out distorted drum machine beats. This seems to get written off as novelty rap, total garbage, or just a pretty good gangster rap "parody," but it is so much more. Hal Russell - Elixir; Haazz and Company - Unlawful Noise (both Atavistic) Even though two of the tracks are cut off (one at the end, one at the beginning), the Hal Russell thing is one of the best I've heard by him, or Mars Williams. And I think the Unlawful Noise CD is so much better, Brotzmann-wise, than the Fuck De Boere CD. Really, really abrasive and noisy and intense. Soilent Green - A Deleted Symphony for the Beaten Down; Burnt by the Sun - s/t EP (Relapse) Two grind/hardcore/metal CDs that should interest anyone who liked Torture Garden (I would think), esp. the Soilent Green CD. While I don't like the production as much as their last one (my favorite metal CD ever), the songwriting/playing has plenty of amazing moments, with odd time signature stuff that might even confuse the Ruins (?) in a few spots. But it also just kicks ass all around -- like Black Sabbath, Lynyrd Skynrd, Slayer, Suffocation, Naked City, Ruins, Napalm Death, and the Melvins all smashed together. Yikes, that sounds like a press release.... Arab on Radar - Yawheh or the Highway (Skin Graft) Possibly the most annoying band in rock, great live show, too. Khanate - s/t (Southern Lord); Atomsmasher - s/t (Hydrahead); Speedranch/Venetian Snares - Making Orange Things (some Brit. electronica label, run by Luke Vibert, I think?) Khanate is sickening slow doom metal with James Plotkin and the singer from OLD as well (hey, Zorn content), plus two other guys, one who is listed as playing in the current version of Blind Idiot God, which I have heard nothing about. Atomsmasher is cut-and-paste computer-edited grindcore with Plotkin, the drummer from Burnt by the Sun, and Speedranch. Their next album will be on Ipecac -- hopefully Mike Patton will get re-inspired in the ways of being obnoxious by listening to Speedranch, who sounds much more free-spirited in his screaming/yelling through effects than Patton, even though I am guessing he can't sing as well. Katatonia - Last Fair Deal Gone Down (Peaceville) My favorite "pop" (i.e., song-based) album of the year, by a Swedish, somewhat Cure-like, slick kind-of-metal band that gets filed in the black metal section based on their associations.... Other favorites: Zeni Geva - 10,000 Light Years; Old Man Gloom - Seminar III; Lightning Bolt - Ride the Skies (wish they left out the nursery rhyme melodies, though); Wolf Eyes - Dread and w/ Spykes; Globe Unity - '67 & '70; Tim Berne - both albums; Gorguts - From Wisdom to Hate (it's not Obscura, but it's still Gorguts...); Sigh - Imaginary Sonicscape Oh yes, good live shows: Matt Shipp trio (better than album), John Butcher solo, Cryptopsy/Candiria, Soilent Green/Deicide/Morbid Angel, Tim Berne x 3, Uri Caine trio, Jean Derome/Pierre Tanguay/Norman Guibault (sp. ?) trio, Marco Eneidi/Sabu Toyozumi duo, Wolf Eyes, 25 Suaves, Flying Luttenbachers, Gorguts, Arab on Radar, plus many shows by all the great rock/noise bands from San Francsico/Bay Area right now: Pink & Brown, Total Shutdown, Erase Errata, Dig That Body Up...It's Alive, Hammers of Misfortune, High on Fire, etc. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: klez oldies Date: 12 Jan 2002 02:15:34 EST hi guys- fyi- from sony;legacy press release: DAVE TARRAS - "Tanz!" * "Tanz!," recorded by the legendary klezmer clarinetist Dave Tarras in 1956, was this music's last great hurrah before the klezmer revival began in the 1970s. A rare, out-of-print collectors' LP now digitally restored with bonus material from the original sessions. ABE SCHWARTZ - title to be determined * Abe Schwartz was the John Hammond and Phil Spector of klezmer music -- producer, arranger, songwriter, band leader, and Columbia Records talent scout -- in the early part of the Twentieth Century. This anthology collects his mosthistorical work. love to all and happy new years steve koenig- n.p.: bergman/bauer/maneri n.r. (again- 3rd time) serge gainsbourg- "yvgeny sokolov" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: one more- klez/yiddische "Avenue A to the Great White Way" Date: 12 Jan 2002 02:16:59 EST VARIOUS ARTISTS - "Avenue A to the Great White Way" * 2-CD set comprises the essentials of vocal and instrumental Yiddish music in America after World War I by the original artists who made them famous. The set traces the transitions of those artists and music from the Lower East Side to Broadway and worldwide popularity in the 1930s and '40s. these are due out april 16 steve k. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= Subject: Fwd: re: free jazz w/ non standard insts. Date: 12 Jan 2002 10:41:07 +0100 (CET) Hi, > a lot of people are also big on peter brotzmann's > die like a dog quartet > (most albums have toshinori kondo on > effects-processed trumpet). for some > reason, i have not gotten into this stuff as much as > some other brotzmann > releases. I recently got "Little Birds Have Fast Hearts" from the Die Like a Dog qt. and I've been immediately hooked up. Certainly, Kondo's processed trumpet adds interest to Brotzman's raw material, although I found it not to be as harsh as I'd expect from him. It's worth a listen, really. Another album that touches a bit upon improv with originality is Spring Heel Jack's "Masses" in which the two British electronic musicians are accompanied by Matt Shipp, Evan Parker, Tim Berne, Craig Taborn, Roy Campbell, ... The idea is not that original: electronic bases with freewheeling improvisation on top (Derek's drum n'bass experiments, for instance) but the results are rewarding. No actual rhythms, pretty ambient electronic stuff with hard-blowing. David S. Ware's last album, "Parallels & Corridors" also features Matthew Shipp on synths, which I found surprising, and in the end, made this album spin repeatedly. Best, Efrén del Valle n.p: John Scofield "A-GoGo" > > also, i like the ellery eskelin/andrea parkins cd, > 'green bermudas', that > skip h. mentioned. it is less expressionistic, i > guess, than the above > albums, but more bizarre. tenor saxophone and > accordion/sampling keyboard -- > the samples are often really long, and include > portions of some of the weird > "song poems" of eskelin's dad, rodd keith (cd on > tzadik), although these > samples are heavily mutated. the last track is > possibly the most screwed-up > father/son "duets" ever! (yet it is still somehow > very moving.) > > >i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews > "creation music" >release > >(throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). > > i haven't heard that, but i saw the two shows by > griffin/burns/dionyso in > oakland in november. good stuff. (were you at those? > i recogzine your name > from the spockmorgue list, which i just recently got > on...). > > while i'm on the private hellos, hi davy -- yes, i'm > still in SF. and to > everyone else, sorry for taking up space ... > > wy > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: > http://mobile.msn.com > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alastair@pretentious.co.uk Subject: What, another best of 2001? Date: 12 Jan 2002 13:49:13 +0000 (GMT) ------=_Part_1240_2909107.1010843353032 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A little late, but nevertheless heartfelt: Best albums of 2001 1. Fennesz - Endless Summer (Mego) 2. Toshimaru Nakamura/Sachiko M - Do (Erstwhile) 3. Fantomas - The Directors Cut (Ipecac) 4. John Zorn - The Gift (Tzadik) 5. Derek Bailey - Chats (Incus CD-R) 6. Matmos - A Chance To Cut Is A Chance To Cure (Matador) 7. Labradford - Fixed::Content (Blast First) 8. Tortoise - Standards (Warp) 9. theboylucas - Out Of The Wires (Output) 10. Ryoji Ikeda/Carsten Nicolai - Cyclo (Raster-Noton) 11. Various - Improvisation Series Vol 1 2000 (Deluxe) if only for having a secret extra track with the Tagu Sugimoto Guitar Quartet playing a blues improvisation... 12. John Wall - Constructions V-VII (Utterpsalm) And not forgetting.... Best Reissues/Archival reissues of 2001 1. Miles Davis - The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions (Columbia) 2. Beach Boys - Hawthorne, CA (Capitol) 3. John Oswald - Plunderphonics 69-96 (fony) 4. Love - Forever Changes (Elektra) 5. John Cale - Inside The Dream Syndicate Vols I-III (Table of the Elements) I also dug the Velvet Underground's Bootleg Series Vol 1: The Quine Tapes for different reasons. 6. Buffalo Springfield - The Buffalo Springfield Box Set (Warner) And here's a dozen albums that might have made it into the above lists, if only I'd been able to get round to buying them in 2001. I'm Happy, And I'm Singing And A 1,2,3,4 - Jim O'Rourke Vespertine - Bjork The Olatunji Concert - John Coltrane Masses - Spring Heel Jack Now,Listen! - Solid Steel presents DJ Food & DK Witness - Dave Douglas Sings Reign Rebuilder - Set Fire To Flames Anode - Otomo Yoshihide The Shell Game - Tim Berne Filmworks X: In The Mirror Of Maya Deren - John Zorn Live At Tonic 2001 - Masada Kenotaphion - Jonty Semper (2CDs of the 2-minute silences observed on Remembrance Day through the years. I *can't wait* to get my hands on this). Gigs of 2001 in chronological order: Gary Lucas @ the Borderline 12/1 Japanorama @ QEH 17/1 Big Air (featuring Jim Black!) @ The Sophbeck Sessions, Cambridge 27/3 John Zorn/Satlah @ Cargo 2/4 The Necks @ Ocean 10/4 Chicago Underground Duo @ The Spitz 24/5 Fantomas @ LA2 17/7 Alastair ---------- Get a fun email address at http://another.com COOL: Personalise a t-shirt with your name/email/slogan from 9.99 pounds. CLICK HERE http://another-shop.com ------=_Part_1240_2909107.1010843353032-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor Subject: Erstwhile Berne's Frisell Date: 12 Jan 2002 09:54:50 -0400 In response to a couple of recent posts - 1.I'd say my favorite Erstwhile releases so far are the Muller/Le Quan Ninh and the Stangl/Kurzmann, and I'm Really looking forward to hearing the Fennesz/Polwelschel collab. - I'm curious to hear what it will sound like, especially after Fennesz's Endless Summer (most would agree definitely one of the top ten of last year) where he edged closer to a 'song-based/melody'approach than ever before. 2.I can't agree more with everyone singing their praises for Tim Berne's Open Coma - I received it a few days ago and have been listening to it constantly. Great arrangements of his compositions and a great new composition, not to mention some sweet playing by Berene and Ducret and Robertson (actually as well as the rest of the whole ensemble!). Finally, as has been mentioned before, very nice packaging. 3. I'm surprised that more people didn't put the Frisell/Holland/Jones collab. in their top discs for last year - while admittedly it vears dangerously close to 'elevator material' on a few occassions - all three play so well, and they seem to be having so much fun playing together, I'm just surprised to it was absent from almost everyone's year-end lists. wudzy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: 16 tons Date: 12 Jan 2002 11:15:12 -0800 Was someone on this list looking for a copy of "16 Tons" by the Masters? skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Howard Stelzer" Subject: Re: noise/jazz rec's Date: 12 Jan 2002 14:42:25 -0500 >i'm really getting into freejazz, but more specifically, free jazz >that >integrates other things (ie: not "pure" instrumental free jazz, >but the >hoots of milford graves, and some of the weird >distortion/filtering that i >heard in some ascension release, and other >things..) and recommendations. >are there any releases that jump out >in your mind? If you haven't heard 'em yet, one group I can't reccommend highly enough is Borbetomagus. They get blown off too often, or mistaken for a noise band (they aren't) or simply brushed aside for supposedly having only one idea, but close and repeated listening shows them to be beautiful and subtle and unlike anything else (except maybe Hijo Kaidan, who get similar undeserved flack). The group is two saxophone players, Jim Sauter and Don Deitrich, and the STUNNINGLY GREAT guitarist Donald Miller. Donald doesn't seem to get a lot of respect in the improv world, but I think that has more to do with his sense of humor than his playing. The group did some collabortaive records (with Toshinori Kondo, Milo Fine, Hugh Davies, Shaking Ray Levis, Voice Crack) but their strongest work is as a trio. Borbeto profess to be creating a group sound, not so much interested in individual instrumental gestures or virtuosity, and while the early recordings show them to be more like a "normal" (ahem) improv band, by the mid-90s they reached thier goal. It takes me years to feel like I've actually heard and (more or less) digested one of thier albums, so I suggest starting with one and living with it for awhile. If you can track down "Buncha Hair That Long", that might be thier best. So many intricate layers to dig through, so rich with events and ACTION and gut emotion. Incredible, incredible stuff. More thoughtful than they get credit for. Exactly what I want from improvised instrumental music. If you already like Voice Crack, or if you saw the Flirts on thier last US tour, you have a way in. Imagine the inverse of nmperign, maybe. Also, Donald's guitar-duo CD with Michael Schumacher, "Flood", is a winner. Not at all similar to Borbeto, but still fan-friggin'-tastic. Howard Stelzer. Intransitive Recordings. www.intransitiverecordings.com NOW AVAILABLE: int017 M.BEHRENS "Elapsed Time" CD int018 GAL "Relisten" CD COMING LATER: infr01 TOSHIYA TSUNODA "Extracts from Field Recordings Archive #3: Solid Vibration" CD int020 HOWARD STELZER AND JASON TALBOT "Songs" CD int021 NERVE NET NOISE "Meteor Circuit" CD _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Neil H. Enet" Subject: Death Cube K Date: 12 Jan 2002 17:37:51 -0400 Please, I would like to hear your comments on Death Cube K's Disembodied. It's realy cheap in a record store here where I live. Thanks Neil H. Enet ------------ NP. ULTRA-LOUNGE - The Crime Scene (Various Artists) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: new cobra line up Date: 12 Jan 2002 22:10:09 +0000 Hello >John Zorn, Susie Ibarra, Cyro Baptista, Derek Bailey, Erik Friedlander, >Mark Feldman, >Jennifer Choi, Sylvie Courvoisier, Jamie Saft, Ikue Mori, Annie Gosfield, >Marcus Rojas, Josh Roseman, Mark Dresser, Trevor Dunn Uh, it does look good, but Derek Bailey!??! Never thought he would participate in these games...! Cheers, NP: Dureforsog: Exploring Beauty (Kool Arrow records) NR: http://www.9-11peace.org _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Joe Maneri help Date: 12 Jan 2002 17:48:57 EST --part1_d2.121fbbf6.29721759_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey group, Before I decide to sell or trade them, can anyone give me some insight on how to make sense of Joe Maneri? I have the Blessed and Tale Of Rhonlief CD's, and I'm pretty much baffled. Thanks! Dale. --part1_d2.121fbbf6.29721759_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey group,

Before I decide to sell or trade them, can anyone give me some insight on how to make sense of Joe Maneri? I have the Blessed and Tale Of Rhonlief CD's, and I'm pretty much baffled. Thanks!

Dale. --part1_d2.121fbbf6.29721759_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Erstwhile Berne's Frisell Date: 12 Jan 2002 21:13:51 EST In a message dated 1/12/02 8:56:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca writes: << 3. I'm surprised that more people didn't put the Frisell/Holland/Jones collab. in their top discs for last year - while admittedly it vears dangerously close to 'elevator material' on a few occassions - all three play so well, and they seem to be having so much fun playing together, I'm just surprised to it was absent from almost everyone's year-end lists. >> I picked this one up out of a discount rack. It's nice to hear him get out of the "Americana" thing and back into a jazz setting. I'd label it "pleasant", but definitely *not* top o' the year stuff. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Ahmadi Subject: Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey Date: 12 Jan 2002 21:12:09 -0600 I just wanted to let everyone know about a Tulsa trio that I have known for a number of years. Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey has been touring the country for over 4 years spreading their improvisation. They just finished a tour with Charlie Hunter from Texas to a spread of the west coast. They have several albums, one which is on Accurate. If you've never heard of them, please do so and check out www.jfjo.com. Lots of music, lots and lots and lots. much peace, kasra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Selvig" Subject: Plunderphonics Date: 13 Jan 2002 12:33:35 -0800 "Again; anyone can sample a bunch of riffs, hooks, excerpts, sounds, etc; it takes skill to put them all together into something coherent (instead of Oswald's "just throwing them all together" approach)." - If I may be a bit presumptuopus about John Oswald's intent, I think it is important to recognize that Oswald's intent is not to create pop-song or danceable "pastiche," but rather to use familiar sonic elements as compositional building blocks. The Plexure CD's beats steadily accelerate over the course of 32 minutes, and the probability of this happening randomly is infinitessimally small. That said, the joy of Oswald's music is more conceptual - I think I said this on this list before: I enjoyed the liner notes of 69/96 more than the music. I did not get my hands on the first Plunderphonics CD, but I know Plexure and the Plunderphonics Rubaiyat CD were both pretty short, I wonder if part of the problem with 69/96 is that listening to plunderphonics is fatiguing. On a realted note, John Wall is the guy recently profiled in the Wire who does plunderphonics-type work with contempo classical sources, right? I'm intrigued, especially given Mr Wall's big mouth, but I'd like to hear opinions from people who are familiar with his records. -Selvig _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Plunderphonics Date: 13 Jan 2002 22:13:01 +0100 On a realted note, John Wall is the guy recently profiled in the Wire who does plunderphonics-type work with contempo classical sources, right? I'm intrigued, especially given Mr Wall's big mouth, but I'd like to hear opinions from people who are familiar with his records. -Selvig I am not aware of Wall's most recent work, but from what I know, he is the wild man of orchestral sampling. Technical perfection is astonishing, especially where he constructs 'unplayable' passages. Sometimes he reaches this level of perfection though, where you think it would be cooler to hear a live orchestra play this music. A symphony orchestra sounds ok in the living room, as do samples, but in the concert hall, it's overwhelming; Wall's artificial architecture would sound bleak. But, as in the case of the Oswald debate on coherence and conceptual strenght, you might wonder if that's the point... regards, Remco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu Subject: Re: fwd: Sony Legacy klezmer reissues Date: 13 Jan 2002 20:40:11 -0600 (CST) I've owned that Dave Tarras record for years and it is quite good if a bit more restrained than we might now be used to from our modern klezmer bands. I'm excited to hear what's on the other discs. Rob Quoting Lang Thompson : > > >APRIL 16 > >LEGACY DEBUTS VINTAGE KLEZMER SERIES FROM AMERICA'S GREATEST ARCHIVE > OF > UNTAPPED > >YIDDISH MUSIC, COLUMBIA RECORDS > > > >DAVE TARRAS - "Tanz!" > >* "Tanz!," recorded by the legendary klezmer clarinetist Dave Tarras > in > 1956, > >was this music's last great hurrah before the klezmer revival began in > the > >1970s. A rare, out-of-print collectors' LP now digitally restored with > bonus > >material from the original sessions. > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= Subject: EARTH "070796" (one-sided) live LP - VERY LAST COPIES FOR SALE! Date: 14 Jan 2002 05:00:15 +0000 (GMT) EARTH "070796" (one-sided) live LP - VERY LAST COPIES FOR SALE! "EARTH "070796" (one-sided) live LP (OR, 2001). BRAND NEW AND STILL SEALED (in stickered shrinkwrap). Recorded direct from desk to DAT at the HYPERSTRINGS Festival in Wein, Austria, 1996 (with the assistance of Sonic Boom's (E.A.R) personal methadone supply!). This, the first official release since the "Pentastar : In The Style Of Demons" album (Sub Pop, SP365, 1996), is a special edition (unique single-groove pressing) vinyl only album (cut and mastered at Dubplates & Mastering, Berlin, 2000) released in January last year is LIMITED TO JUST 506 COPIES! It sold out from EVERYWHERE instantly and is obviously now VERY rare. I have obtained some of the VERY LAST COPIES available in the entire world. Seriously. Once they go, they go... If you don't buy now, you'll regret it, and will have to to pay a small fortune in the not too distant future. EARTH truely are a very special and utterly unique band. Personally speaking, there're one of my favourite bands, and always will be. There is no tracklist for this release, although it features a slowed-down version of "Charioteer (Temple Song)" from the then recently released "Pentastar..." album (see above). Overall, this 30 minute guitar drone and feedback epic reminds alot of the band's "Sunn Amps And Smashed Guitars Live!" CD (Blast First, BFFP123, 1995) recorded live at Disobey, London, May, 1995. This title was recently reissued by No Quarter Records (noquarterrec@hotmail.com). There's no such thing as a bad EARTH record, and without a doubt, you can't go wrong with "070796". However, there's certainly such thing as a VERY RARE one, and this is now one of them. Again, buy now, or you've had it. Good luck! Payment for UK : cheque, P.O, cash. Payment for continental Europe : US$ and EUROS cash only, or in some cases, Post Office I.M.O. Payment for elsewhere (R.O.W): US$ cash only or, in some cases, Post Office I.M.O. Postage to be determined depending on destination. In everyone's interests, please don't bid if you can't pay promptly, and I mean it. Thankyou. Please feel free to contact me with any questions at blackoperations_uk@hotmail.com". Available at: http://www.skylabcommerce.com/ (username : michael_gillham) http://www.ebay.com/ (username : blackoperations) http://www.ebay.co.uk/ (username : blackoperations) To view the ebay auction, please click here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1502199837 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: tim berne Date: 13 Jan 2002 23:18:13 -0600 (CST) > I have been listening a bit to Bloodcount lately, and I was hoping to > get a bit more insight into how Berne's tunes are written down. I could > simplify what I am hearing as 'long passages of free stuff, some written > stuff, free stuff, written stuff, etc.' but I just think there must be > more to it. For example, the free stuff may have some parameters as to > who is going to play, in what mood, etc. Any ideas would be much > appreciated... It's sounds like you're on the right track. I've spent a lot of time with the Bloodcount discs these last few months, including trying to actually roadmap some of these tunes (outright transcription being currently a bit too intimidating) and though I'm not familiar with Chapin/Pavone's 'cells' theory, as Sean Westergaard describes it this sounds pretty on. Almost all of the Bloodcount material is completely episodic, and I'd break the ingredients down into coming from three categories: themes, grooves, and free sections with assorted instructions as far as players, mood, etc. Having multiple recordings of the same tunes (on the Paris discs as well as the Unwound box) was useful for making sense of the free portions - the biggest difference between the two sets of recordings seems to be the lunatic affection Jim Black developed for drum'n'bass in the intervening years... But as Berne and the participants in this thread have mentioned, it's all about the players. Given the amount of time where two or more musicians are largely left to their own devices, it seems as if Berne has definitely left it up to the band to lock the parts together into one coherent whole. Human Feel (which includes Bloodcount's Speed & Black) are a great example of another band that seems to work kind of the same way, less material per tune (typically at least) but an even higher level of mind-meld, if such a thing can be believed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Verstraeten Stefan" Subject: Re: free jazz with non-jazz Date: 14 Jan 2002 06:52:29 +0100 > Subject: re: free jazz w/ non standard insts. > > >into freejazz, but more specifically, free jazz that integrates other > >things (ie: not "pure" instrumental free jazz, but the hoots of >milford > >graves, and some of the weird distortion/filtering that i >heard in some > >ascension release, and other things..) i've really been >enjoying your > >posts and recommendations. are there any releases that >jump out in your > >mind? I personally would suggest the three cd-boxes of the nihilist spasm band called "no music festival". This band invites every year a lot of musicians to improvise with. You can compare it with the company-concerts that derek bailey organises, but these concerts play more in the noise-field. The results are great... you hear people like Ken Vandemark, Jim O'rourke, Fred Van Hove, Michael Snow and others play with noise musicians (for example amplified bread-toasters !!!!!!!).... they create definitely a new style of free music. No music for starters, but once you got into fire music; this music is a nice experiment. Hope this helps, Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: Griffin/Burns/Dionyso/Crews Date: 14 Jan 2002 07:47:16 EST i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews "creation music" >release >(throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). Where can you find this release? Thanks, Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: John Wall (was Plunderphonics) Date: 14 Jan 2002 07:48:34 -0500 At 10:13 PM 1/13/02 +0100, Remco Takken wrote: >>On a related note, John Wall ... > >I am not aware of Wall's most recent work, but from what I know, he is the >wild man of orchestral sampling. Technical perfection is astonishing, >especially where he constructs 'unplayable' passages. Sometimes he reaches >this level of perfection though, where you think it would be cooler to hear >a live orchestra play this music. He doesn't only sample orchestras. The list of sampled artists on his first Constructions album (chosen just because it was on top) includes Evan Parker, Ryoji Ikeda, and Iannis Xenakis, and one of his other albums, Alterstill I think, includes Painkiller and other metal artists. However, Remco makes a good point, Wall's interests started in producing music that's just out of reach of most ensembles, if only because they're not going to get a full choir, full orchestra, small jazz combo, and heavy metal trio together on one stage. I find Wall's more recent work (the Constructions) to be more difficult than Alterstill and Fractuur, and they include some live "samples" as well. The earlier works have recognizable loops that are used throughout a piece as a reference point, but the later ones are sparse and more abstract. I love Wall's work, and would recommend him highly, starting with Alterstill and Fractuur. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: tim berne Date: 14 Jan 2002 08:26:48 -0500 I've been meaning to jump into this thread earlier. Tim's in town tonight with Paraphrase, and in an interview prior to Christmas he told me that one of the things he does more and more these days is compose and/or put himself into situations that confront what he already knows. He says that he quickly becomes restless if music stays in one place long enough to become comfortable, so he tries to constantly challenge himself. The most recent challenge, he says, is working with keyboard. James Hale Tom Benton wrote: > But as Berne and the participants in this thread have mentioned, it's all > about the players. Given the amount of time where two or more musicians > are largely left to their own devices, it seems as if Berne has definitely > left it up to the band to lock the parts together into one coherent whole. > Human Feel (which includes Bloodcount's Speed & Black) are a great example > of another band that seems to work kind of the same way, less material per > tune (typically at least) but an even higher level of mind-meld, if such a > thing can be believed. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Gardner Subject: Pat Martino Date: 14 Jan 2002 15:19:26 +0000 With the Top Ten Lists for 2001 dwindling I would like to mention just one release. This is probably not the right place because it is not avant garde or noisy but Pat Martino's Live at Yoshi's gave me as much enjoyment as any record last year. It's just a blowing album but with Joey Defrancesco and Billy Hart I felt this was a modern Blue Note that was in the true spirit of that great label's former days. I t grooves and it grooves hard. Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: John Wall (was Plunderphonics) Date: 14 Jan 2002 07:57:12 -0800 (PST) --- "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > I love Wall's work, and would recommend him highly, > starting with Alterstill > and Fractuur. Does Wall perform his work, or perfrom live at all, and if so, is it largely a question of playback-to-diffusion, or does he improvise? Does anyone know what kind of equipment he uses in performance (assuming he performs)? I echo the recommendations of Wall's work, though I would probably not recommend starting with CONSTRUCTIONS V-VII, which I'm still trying to warm to. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Pat Martino Date: 14 Jan 2002 10:25:32 -0800 > With the Top Ten Lists for 2001 dwindling I would like to mention just one > release. > > This is probably not the right place because it is not avant garde or noisy > but Pat Martino's Live at Yoshi's gave me as much enjoyment as any record > last year. It's just a blowing album but with Joey Defrancesco and Billy > Hart I felt this was a modern Blue Note that was in the true spirit of that > great label's former days. I t grooves and it grooves hard. > > Richard Gardner > > > - > Props for Pat! By all means. And I think it's Joey's best playing to date as well. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Pat Martino Date: 14 Jan 2002 19:40:51 +0100 This is probably not the right place because it is not avant garde or noisy but Pat Martino's Live at Yoshi's gave me as much enjoyment as any record last year. ---------------------- Yep, that's true, I had the time of my life playing Oleo, All Blues and Blue in Green over and over again. Greatness in music isn't about renewal or deviation. Fact is, sometimes the great masters get overlooked by us folks wanting better, newer, faster. But, looking at all those top Ten Lists, there's so much great music young and old to be (re)discovered! But, yeah, Pat Martino definitely made a really cool, tight, groovy and deep swinging guitar-hammond-drums jazz album!!!! Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Pat Martino Date: 14 Jan 2002 13:27:23 -0800 > But, yeah, Pat Martino definitely made a really cool, tight, groovy and deep > swinging guitar-hammond-drums jazz album!!!! > > Remco Takken > ... and that is as beautiful an achievement as any. Viva la baby Face Wilette. skip heller http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: smhalabi@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: griffin/burns/dionyso/crews Date: 14 Jan 2002 14:11:10 -0800 (PST) >i also really liked griffin/burns/dionyso/crews "creation music" >release >(throat singing/violin/bass clarinet/piano/drums). >Where can you find this release? Hi, yes, actually, "creation music" is a 2 cd set. CD 2 has michael griffin (from behead the prophet, on violin), Gust Burns (on Piano), and Arrington de Dionyso (from old time relijun, on throat singing, bass- clarinets, copper pipe instrument). CD 1 Has arrington de dionyso again, but this time with John Shirba (sp?), and Eli Crews (from spezza rotto), and i think there's someone else i can't remember playing drums. you can get it by emailing arrington at relijun@hotmail.com its one of the best things i've heard. really raw. thanks to everyone who recommended noisy/wierd freejazz stuff! (yeah, the nihilist spazm band are so great! i've only heard a little borbetomagus, but i'll do more research. and i really liked voice crack's "ear flash" release) bye, sondra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: John Wall (was Plunderphonics) Date: 15 Jan 2002 06:12:49 -0500 At 07:57 AM 1/14/02 -0800, Scott Handley wrote: > >Does Wall perform his work, or perfrom live at all, >and if so, is it largely a question of >playback-to-diffusion, or does he improvise? Does >anyone know what kind of equipment he uses in >performance (assuming he performs)? Wall has an interview in Resonance 6.2 (not online AFAIK) which followed his live performance at a 1997 UK festival. He doesn't address the equipment issue at all, but has a fairly long description of his collaboration with violinist Peter Sheppard, where he wrote a piece based on Sheppard's improvisations, that was transcribed back into a piece for a quartet (instrumentation unspecified, other than Sheppard). He also describes at some length his dissatisfaction with the results (stressing that it wasn't because of the players, but because of his own desire for control), but doesn't seem to eager to 'just let the thing go.' The accompanying CD includes an excerpt from the concert, which is an interesting blend of strings and electronics, but to my ears it isn't as focussed as either Wall's finished pieces or really good electroacoustic improv. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: ielasi/sciajno live question Date: 15 Jan 2002 09:07:52 -0800 (PST) Who has seen Giuseppi Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno live, recently? I'm curious what kind of gear and techiques they were (or seemed) to be using. After having heard the record, I'm mystified and would be interested to know how the live performance(s) are similar and different from their recent collaboration RIGHT AFTER. Any clues as to what's happening would be appreciated. ------s np: Jérôme Noetinger track, from VARIIOUS (Intransitive) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jason tors Subject: Satoko Fujii Quartet Date: 15 Jan 2002 09:26:50 -0800 (PST) hello all, any info or recs on the album vulcan? pitchfork reviewed it, sounds interesting, but just want to see if anyone has any good words to say about Satoko. here is the review, plenty of z content http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/f/fujii_satoko/vulcan.shtml thanks __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Satoko Fujii Quartet Date: 15 Jan 2002 12:44:38 -0500 Jason: I don't think I would be as generous as the reviewer at Pitchfork, but it's a nice, adventurous recording by Satoko. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the extended things that Natsuki Tamura does on trumpet, but he's not as out on Vulcan as he often is. I have to say that I prefer Satoko's trio with Dresser and Black rather than her Japanese quartet in general. Almost everything she does is interesting, though. Good words? It never ceases to surprise me that Satoko hasn't garnered more critical attention in the States. Stuart Broomer and I have written a number of things on her here in Canada (and Stu's done some liner notes for her), but none of my American associates seem to have picked up on her. It's surprising because her story (well annotated in the Pitchfork review) is pretty interesting. Down Beat was interested in doing a piece on her a couple of years ago, but decided against it. All proving that it's still difficult to get U.S. coverage if you don't have an American label or live there... add to that being an adventurous improviser AND a woman. James Hale jason tors wrote: > hello all, any info or recs on the album vulcan? > > pitchfork reviewed it, sounds interesting, but just want to see if > anyone has any good words to say about Satoko. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brian Olewnick" Subject: Re: ielasi/sciajno live question Date: 15 Jan 2002 18:06:47 -0500 > Who has seen Giuseppi Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno > live, recently? Saw them last night at Tonic as half of a double bill with Greg Kelley/Jason Lescalleet. > I'm curious what kind of gear and > techiques they were (or seemed) to be using. Domenico used an Apple laptop and some auxiliary devices. Giuseppi had, essentially, a tabletop guitar, although it too was augmented with various appurtences. He also had some other electronica. > After > having heard the record, I'm mystified and would be > interested to know how the live performance(s) are > similar and different from their recent collaboration > RIGHT AFTER. The show sounded fairly different than the 'Right After' disc. Better or not, I can't say, but it was excellent. hey were especially compelling when in quiet mode as the multitude of sounds they generated were quite clear, distinct and palpable. When these sounds were gradually merged with an ambient tape of Italian conversation, footfalls and car noises, I thought it sounded spectacular. The two duos are playing Boston tonight and Amherst and Baltimore during the upcoming week. Anyone around should definitely check them out (Kelley and Lescalleet were also outstanding). Brian Olewnick NP: Jason Lescalleet - Another Example of Parkinson's Law - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Berne Date: 16 Jan 2002 10:07:40 EST --part1_150.752a5a5.2976f13c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:36:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > > In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY? didn't know > if > > you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising > was > > a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks. He also > > said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or > has > > no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large. > > That's kind of a loaded, smart-ass statement, and I think it's > irresponsible > of someline like Tim to say that. There are a lot of fanatical pracitcers > who communicate more than adequately (I'm thinkin' Uri Caine for starters). > But the hotel room and the coffee ARE important. > skip heller > http://www.skipheller.com I'm sure Tim was laughing when he said that, or at least laughing on the inside. Maybe if you were actually there to hear it, you might have a better formed opinion about his smart-assness. Geeez.... Thank god i'm not famous and nobody talks about me on internet lists, or i might be the biggest smart-ass in the world :-) About his music --- i'm horrible at talking about/trying to describe music. But -- I've probably seen Tim live more than anyone on this list, so heres what i think. his writing and playing process is no different than any other jazz musicians. It aint rocket science. Free part, written part, free solos, written part. Although his free parts can be verrrry loose, and long, and are obviously never the same each time played.... the musicians involved (obviously) playing the biggest factor in how it sounds. And the written parts are hopefully tighter than a mosquitos ass. I've never noticed much in the way of direction, or cues, except for maybe a signal to go back into the head. Like i said, not much different than other jazz guys.... except of course his tunes sound like him, and his playing and soloing sounds like him. Jody --part1_150.752a5a5.2976f13c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:36:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


> In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY?  didn't know if
> you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising was
> a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks.  He also
> said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or has
> no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large.

That's kind of a loaded, smart-ass statement, and I think it's irresponsible
of someline like Tim to say that.  There are a lot of fanatical pracitcers
who communicate more than adequately (I'm thinkin' Uri Caine for starters).
But the hotel room and the coffee ARE important.
skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com



I'm sure Tim was laughing when he said that, or at least laughing on the inside. Maybe if you were actually there to hear it, you might have a better formed opinion about his smart-assness. Geeez.... Thank god i'm not famous and nobody talks about me on internet lists, or i might be the biggest smart-ass in the world :-)
About his music --- i'm horrible at talking about/trying to describe music.  But -- I've probably seen Tim live more than anyone on this list, so heres what i think.  his writing and playing process is no different than any other jazz musicians.  It aint rocket science.  Free part, written part, free solos, written part.  Although his free parts can be verrrry loose, and long, and are obviously never the same each time played....  the musicians involved (obviously) playing the biggest factor in how it sounds.  And the written parts are hopefully tighter than a mosquitos ass.  I've never noticed much in the way of direction, or cues, except for maybe a signal to go back into the head.  Like i said, not much different than other jazz guys.... except of course his tunes sound like him, and his playing and soloing sounds like him.
Jody --part1_150.752a5a5.2976f13c_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Tzadik web site just updated Date: 16 Jan 2002 10:29:52 -0800 The Tzadik web site has just been updated and there are many exciting records upcoming! BTW, does anybody know if the following record was ever released? *** - ???: Keith Rowe, Otomo Yoshihide, Taku Sugimoto 2001 - Alcohol (UK), ??? (CD) Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 19:05:06 +0000 hey, what happened? everyone die here? so i'm just listening to 'new thing at newport' -- passable trane, but the archie shepp tracks are unreal. when i bought it 12 yrs ago or so, it was the first time i'd ever heard shepp. it knocked me over, and still does. question: i've read that trane used his clout, and maybe even his cash, to get impulse to record ayler. true? and i'm wondering, did he use the newport record to get archie shepp's name out? was he behind getting that out? what about pharoah sanders? was trane doing what would be an artist/vp sorta job today, or am i making things up? just wondering. finally got ayler's 'new grass revival' last week. freakin odd. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 11:10:53 -0800 > question: i've read that trane used his clout, and maybe even his cash, to > get impulse to record ayler. true? and i'm wondering, did he use the newport > record to get archie shepp's name out? was he behind getting that out? what > about pharoah sanders? was trane doing what would be an artist/vp sorta job > today, or am i making things up? > > just wondering. > > finally got ayler's 'new grass revival' last week. freakin odd. > > kurt > kurt -- the story I got is that Coltrane definitely used his muscle to Shepp a deal, and same with Pharoah, but not Sun Ra, to whom he owed a bit of a debt. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 15:42:20 -0500 (EST) Kurt: From what I know and what sounds fantastic from the perspective of 21st Century global capitalism, is that Trane selflessly recommended people to Impulse who he thought deserved to be recorded. He didn't have an A&R function. He was so separate from the creation that that's why he's pictured without socks on Four For Trane. Bob Thiele was recording Shepp and thought so much of the session that he invite JC down to hear it. Trane got dressed hurriedly sans socks. Four For was the introductory session, not Newport, BTW, with Trane as the hook, the same way Marion Brown joined Impulse with Three For Shepp. As for Pharoach the deal, according to Thiele, was a one off. When the subsequent LP sold well, the company president told asked Bob if Sanders was under contract. Told he wasn't the fellow said do so quickly so someone else wouldn't get him. The recording connection between Ayler and Trane was a whole 'nother thing as were most of Ayler's dealings with everyone. Ken Waxman Kurt wrote: > > > question: i've read that trane used his clout, and > maybe even his cash, to > > get impulse to record ayler. true? and i'm > wondering, did he use the newport record to get archie shepp's name out? was he behind getting that out? what about pharoah sanders? was trane doing what would be an artist/vp sorta job today, or am i making things up? ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: otomo solo guitar cdr? Date: 16 Jan 2002 15:59:57 EST does anyone have a copy of this release? thanks. jason - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Massacre live Date: 16 Jan 2002 15:58:22 -0500 Holy God/Satan/Fjord, Massacre is coming here for a show at the (NY) Knit on February 25th. (insert praise to your deity of choice) Best, Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: otomo solo guitar cdr? Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:05:33 EST In a message dated 1/16/02 4:01:20 PM, APoesia794@aol.com writes: << does anyone have a copy of this release? >> yes. it's not that exciting, a bit on the wanky side, as I recall. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: re: ielasi/sciajno live question Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:06:28 EST > Who has seen Giuseppi Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno > live, recently? I'm curious what kind of gear and > techiques they were (or seemed) to be using... i saw giuseppi and domenico last night. domenico plays laptop and a small homemade tone generator. giuseppi plays prepared tabletop guitar and cds. there were a few other misc electronics on the table that they were using. it was a very nice set. good mix of digital and organic sounds. if anyone is in the boston area they are playing a free show tonight at twisted village in cambridge. it will be a quartet with boston's nmperign. they are also playing tomorrow night at hampshire college along with greg kelley/jason lescalleet duo and vic rawlings/howard stelzer/jason talbot trio. j - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 22:24:27 +0100 question: i've read that trane used his clout, and maybe even his cash, to get impulse to record ayler. true? (...) kurt _________________________________________________________________ Read about this in Jeff Schwartz' online Ayler biography, along with excerpts of a duo interview between Ayler and Coltrane, where Coltrane admits that he had been admiring Ayler before he himself adopts some of Ayler's style in his Ascension album. http://www.geocities.com/jeff_l_schwartz/chpt3.html Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Ayler's new grass, Was: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:07:38 +0100 finally got ayler's 'new grass revival' last week. freakin odd. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Is that one out on cd, or did you pay big bucks to get the original Impulse vinyl?? I just love Ayler as weird soul hippie, and also his earlier gospel outings (on Black Lion). Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: Ayler's new grass Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:16:33 +0000 >Is that one out on cd, or did you pay big bucks to get the original Impulse >vinyl?? got it on jap impulse, might be out of print already. there are plans to release it in the us, but the release date seems to be pushed back incessantly. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: Satoko Fujii Quartet Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:23:54 +0000 hi -- yeah, absolutely, fuji is a phenom, and 'vulcan' is far from one of her best. tatsuya, unsurprisingly, plays loud, although not completely drowning out everyone else, and it's fun to hear him in a jazz context. as was mentioned, the dresser/black trio is quite good. but easily her best stuff is the big band records, specifically the east/west double cd. she is right up there with william parker in bringing the big band into the present day. agreed, too, that she should be more recognized in the states than she is, although spending more time here would surely help (she lived here when she attended the new england conservatory and studied under paul bley, as i understand, but now spends her time back in japan, and seems to play here very rarely). kg _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Ayler's new grass, Was: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:46:07 EST writes: I just love Ayler as weird soul hippie, and also his earlier gospel > outings (on Black Lion). I just got 'Goin' Home' on Black Lion and the title track is one of the most beautiful recordings these ears have ever heard. I was driving home from work when I first put it on and almost pulled over, I was so taken with the wonder of the music. The rest of the album is pretty good too. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik web site just updated Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:52:53 EST In a message dated 1/16/02 1:31:10 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << BTW, does anybody know if the following record was ever released? *** - ???: Keith Rowe, Otomo Yoshihide, Taku Sugimoto 2001 - Alcohol (UK), ??? (CD) >> nope, not yet. still in the works as far as I know... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= Subject: Suzuki (NZC) Date: 16 Jan 2002 23:05:46 +0100 (CET) I recommend this site for everybody interested in Seijun Suzuki: http://sweetbottom.tripod.com _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Ayler's new grass, Was: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 17:37:07 -0500 > finally got ayler's 'new grass revival' last week. freakin odd. This was the first Ayler album I ever heard (it was a cut-out) so you can imagine my head-scratching response. I even listened to it again a couple of years ago hoping it might be some neglected masterpiece or something but it still just sounds odd. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ayler's new grass, Was: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 14:58:48 -0800 > This was the first Ayler album I ever heard (it was a cut-out) so you can > imagine my head-scratching response. I even listened to it again a couple of > years ago hoping it might be some neglected masterpiece or something but it > still just sounds odd. > I concur. I don't think any of Ayler's stuff is the masterpiece it's supposed to be. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: is the soundtrack for THE BOOK OF LIFE available? Date: 16 Jan 2002 15:05:38 -0800 Just watched Hal Hartley's THE BOOK OF LIFE and was wondering if the soundtrack ever made it on CD (were credited: Yo La Tengo, Jim O'Rourke, Gene Coleman, PJ Harvey, etc). Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 03 Jan 2002 22:58:02 +0100 Can't answer your question but I'm a total Hartley fan=2E Is "The Book of Li= fe" his latest? If so, is it well received in the States? (I've never yet met an american who's ever heard of Hal Hartley or his films and that's pretty upsetting=2E=2E) (Any Hartley related comments welcome, anyone=2E=2E=2E) Best, D=2E "Patrice L=2E Roussel" a =E9crit : > Just watched Hal Hartley's THE BOOK OF LIFE and was wondering if t= he > soundtrack ever made it on CD (were credited: Yo La Tengo, Jim O'Rourke, G= ene > Coleman, PJ Harvey, etc)=2E > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: is the soundtrack for THE BOOK OF LIFE available? Date: 17 Jan 2002 01:26:11 +0000 >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" > Just watched Hal Hartley's THE BOOK OF LIFE and was wondering if the >soundtrack ever made it on CD (were credited: Yo La Tengo, Jim O'Rourke, >Gene >Coleman, PJ Harvey, etc). Yup, it's on Echostatic Records out of Atlanta (hard to read, looks like their email is echostat@ix.netcom.com) they must have some distribution 'cause I found it here in Canada. Great film by the way (even though it's only 66 minutes 66 seconds long) anyone have other recommendations for Hal Hartley films? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 17 Jan 2002 01:30:31 +0000 >From: Skip Heller >the story I got is that Coltrane definitely used his muscle to Shepp a >deal, >and same with Pharoah, but not Sun Ra, to whom he owed a bit of a debt. Isn't there a story about Trane checking out one of Sun Ra's gigs in the early '60s and upon hearing John Gilmore blow some wild outside solo Dear John went running up to the stage screaming "He's got it!!!"? _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 16 Jan 2002 17:35:17 -0800 On Sun, 03 Jan 1904 22:58:02 +0100 duncan youngerman wrote: > > Can't answer your question but I'm a total Hartley fan. Is "The Book of Life" > his latest? If so, is it well received in the States? (I've never yet met an The movie seems to be a 1998 release. The story is a transposition of Saint Jean's APOCALYPSE to modern times, and specifically to December 31, 1999. It has the usual "arty" features: blurry pictures, skewed camera orientations. I cannot say that I was really impressed by the movie's aesthetic or message (both looking too much like a term project in a movie school). But the music was good and PJ Harvey did not look too bad (as Magdalena) :-). I watched it on video and I have no idea if the movie has been released in the US (sounded like it was mainly produced with French support). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:45:19 EST In a message dated 1/16/02 8:36:14 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: << I watched it on video and I have no idea if the movie has been released in the US (sounded like it was mainly produced with French support). >> it was definitely on the Sundance Channel, that was where I saw it. speaking of films, any Michael Haneke fans out there? I'm not interested in hearing anything about La Pianiste, which I believe opens here in April, but I just saw Code Inconnu and Funny Games recently, and I'm massively impressed. any earlier ones on this level? Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Ahmadi Subject: Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:06:31 -0600 I know somebody just posted the tour dates for Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. My current project just had the opportunity to open for them in Norman, OK. This was the second time I saw and I will say that there are no words to describe... simply because you don't need them. Give them your ears if they're intercepting your locale, otherwise check them out at www.sleepytimegorillamuseum.com. kasra george ahmadi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: coltrane/impulse! Date: 16 Jan 2002 18:23:04 -0800 >> From: Skip Heller > >> the story I got is that Coltrane definitely used his muscle to Shepp a >> deal, >> and same with Pharoah, but not Sun Ra, to whom he owed a bit of a debt. > > Isn't there a story about Trane checking out one of Sun Ra's gigs in the > early '60s and upon hearing John Gilmore blow some wild outside solo Dear > John went running up to the stage screaming "He's got it!!!"? > That story has been widely circulated, and never by John Gilmore, so I believe it to be true. I doubt that it was a fictional or even apocryphal account, and, frankly, Gilmore is, for my money, every bit as fantastic as Trane, Wayne, Sonny, Joe, or anyone else. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Tzadik web site just updated Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:37:35 EST "Cobra"'s release date is being pushed back to MArch. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! / Haneke Date: 16 Jan 2002 22:41:25 -0500 >has the usual "arty" features: blurry pictures, skewed camera orientations. >I cannot say that I was really impressed by the movie's aesthetic or message This is primarily because Book of Life was shot using digital video so Hartley wisely decided to not try to make it look like film, which DV does very poorly. So he was really trying to find a style or aesthetic that fits DV though I agree he wasn't entirely successful (but compare to Spike Lee's Bamboozled which tried to make DV seem like film and resulted in possibly the ugliest thing I've ever seen on screen, something that will be largely hard to see on home video). As for Michael Haneke, I disliked Funny Games so much that I've avoided his other films but: The Seventh Continent is the only other one available on US video (legally) as far as I know; it's supposed to be another violent dissolution of the family type drama done in some unusual style (either all close-ups or with no actors' face seen, I can't remember). Benny's Video has been a hot item on the bootleg circuit because of its ironic violence and focus on a character who watches lots of violent movies (like many of Haneke's fans apparently). 71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance is another one where one of the main events/actions is never shown, only the results. And I've heard lots of good things about his adaptation of Kafka's The Castle which I think was even in the NYFF. Code Unknown has been getting good reviews; Jonathan Rosenbaum's actually makes me want to see it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Gatzen Subject: Re: Massacre live Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:03:34 -0800 (PST) why does Bill Laswell have to do the same notes and sounds with his bass?....personally I think it's boring, I do feel he is creative enough to do something different than the "reggae, dub, stuff" T ===== Tom Gatzen Atlanta GA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Massacre live Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:17:06 -0800 > > > why does Bill Laswell have to do the same notes and > sounds with his bass?....personally I think it's > boring, I do feel he is creative enough to do > something different than the "reggae, dub, stuff" > > > > T > > ===== > Tom Gatzen > Atlanta GA You could ask the same question of Errol Garner, Mose Allison, or Jonathan Richman. Laswell has a thing he does that makes him Laswell. Either you want that thing or you don't. But one should not criticize him for providing it, as long as he does with some sort of real commitment. skip heller (not a huge laswell fan) http://www.skipheller.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: Re: Coltrane & Shepp & a call for vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 02:34:35 -0500 Hello, ...."New Thing At Newport" is a blast. I'll stick up for the 'Trane stuff, always having dug the velocity/intensity of "One Down, One Up". I do agree that the Shepp group is the real revelation on the disc, though. These recordings feature Bobby Hutcherson on vibes, who is also on Dolphy's "Out to Lunch". These two records stick out to me due to the presence of Hutcherson, the vibes not being much of a "New Thing" instrument. The rather harried feel of the Newport stuff is punctuated for me by the vibes, which possess a level of abstraction and aggression that I've never heard come from that source on any other occasion. Any experts out there care to mention any free/avant/new thing records that feature good vibes? How about some further Hutcherson recordings? I remain.... Joseph NP: Half Japanese- "The Band That Would Be King" NR: Alfred Jarry- "Ubu Roi" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Coltrane & Shepp & a call for vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 03:01:01 EST jneff@visuallink.com writes: > Any experts out there care to > mention any free/avant/new thing records that feature good vibes? Although certainly not an expert, here are a few suggestions of recent players: --Bryan Carrott (vibes/marimba) appears very recently on Henry Threadgill's 'Everybodys Mouth's A Book' (Pi) and Dave Douglas's 'Witness' (RCA). He's also played with Ralph Peterson, Greg Osby, Roy Campbell, and others. --Bill Ware has done a number of albums with the Jazz Passengers, his own trio Vibes, as well as appearing on a number of other "downtowner's" albums. A number of those albums are on the Knitting Factory label. --Mark Josefberg, with Phillip Johnston & his Transparent Quartet: The Needless Kiss (1997, Koch) and 'The Merry Frolics of Satan (1999, Koch). --Gregg Bendian, although more well-known as a drummer, plays vibes/glockenspiel in his band Interzone, which has three albums out, two of which are on Atavistic. The latest is 'Requiem for Jack Kirby' (2001). --Gust William Tsilis (vibes/marimba) has played a lot with Arthur Blythe since at least the mid-80s. He had a few albums under his name on Enja in the late 80s/early 90s and more recently was on Blythe's 'Night Song' (1997, Clarity). jeff caltabiano n.p. chick corea: the beginning (1970) w/ dave holland and barry altschul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Flaum Subject: IMPROVISED MUSIC from JAPAN 10-CD boxed set? Date: 17 Jan 2002 02:25:15 -0500 came up on another list : http://www.japanimprov.com/boxset/index-e.html does anyone have any idea where this might end up available in the US? (oh, and doesn't it look amazing?) thanks Mark. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: IMPROVISED MUSIC from JAPAN 10-CD boxed set? Date: 17 Jan 2002 03:36:53 EST In a message dated 1/17/02 3:26:22 AM, mflaum@softhome.net writes: << came up on another list : http://www.japanimprov.com/boxset/index-e.html does anyone have any idea where this might end up available in the US? (oh, and doesn't it look amazing?) >> I got this earlier this week, and I've made it through the first six discs once. a lot of it is pretty great, and it does look quite attractive. I was asked to distribute them in the US, but I assumed Anomalous would stock them, so I was holding off since they're so pricy. if people are interested in preordering them from me, I'll sell them for $135 including shipping within the US, e-mail me privately. if I get a few preorder commitments, I'll go ahead and order some. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Coltrane & Shepp & a call for vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:54:46 +0100 (CET) Hi, Joseph wrote: Any experts > out there care to > mention any free/avant/new thing records that > feature good vibes? How about > some further Hutcherson recordings? Well, I'm no expert but a couple of months ago I bought Tony Williams' "Life Time" re-issue on Blue Note, with Hutcherson on vibes and marimba and found it a great, great album- maybe not a masterpiece as it was sold to me (as much as Ayler's records don't mean that much to me like seems to happen with other listers). Hutcherson plays a major role in this really enjoyable listening, IMHO. As I see, no further praises for "Out to Luch" are required. All the best, Efrén (whose car has just been run over by a big, big lorry!!) _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mads Ruby" Subject: Re: Coltrane & Shepp & a call for vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:01:43 +0100 > > Any experts out there care to > > mention any free/avant/new thing records that feature good vibes?=20 >=20 Another one is Carlhans Berger. I=B4m not very familiar with him, but he = played on "Togetherness", a great album by Don Cherry and Gato Barbieri = from 1965. Dunno if it=B4s available, though. cheers Mads - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Haneke Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:03:39 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > speaking of films, any Michael Haneke fans out > there? I'm not interested in > hearing anything about La Pianiste I don't want to upset Jon, so I won't talk about La Pianiste, which I saw last week, but am I the only one who thinks Michael Haneke is given too much credit? I find it really easy to upset the audience with shocking violence and ugly daily life-situations. I'll always prefer Kitano's concept of visual violence, for instance. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: H.Hartley faves Date: 04 Jan 2002 07:04:04 +0100 In answer to the question on where to start with Hal Hartley, my own definitive introduction was these 3 1990's films (seen -where else- in Paris): "Trust Me" "The Unbelievable Truth" "Simple Men" The desperate humour, the sense of form and framing, the refusal of post-Cassavetes/actor's studio complacency, the brilliant assimilation of Godard with an American post-modern feel, the great acting (faithful unknowns), the music... I was blown away. His work is as accessible as a B52's song while being intellectually and esthetically challenging. I feel he should have found a niche for himself with the same American public and distributors that follow David Lynch's or Jim Jarmush's work. But strangely, that has'nt happened. About 5 years ago came "Amateur", with Isabelle Hupert, a bigger production than usual and a disapointment, although it contains a few gems for which H.H. has no equal (in particular an absurd chaotic NYC street scene that's worth the film). DY. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Massacre live Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:32:54 +0000 Hello. > > why does Bill Laswell have to do the same notes and > > sounds with his bass?....personally I think it's > > boring, I do feel he is creative enough to do > > something different than the "reggae, dub, stuff" Hm, I do like some of Laswell's stuff, but still kind of agree... I mean, in EVERY impro situation you can be sure that he will start dubbing. I haven't heard "Metldown" by Massacre yet, but would be highly surprised if he didn't dub trhough that as well. Any comments on this album? Does it rock? SHould I by it? How is Haywards singing? I think Laswell's playing on the first Painkiller album is incredible. SOme of the best AGGRESSIVE bass I have ever heard! And, I'm curious how "beautifully recorded" the Naked City live CD will actually be! But this is going to be a series, right? Hope they release some with Eye screaming! A live version of the Torture Garden stuff would be incredible. I hope there will be as many live Naked City as there is Masada. Cheers, NP: Tomahawk: Tomahawk (so far it totallt sucks!) NR: http://www.transcend.org/ (extremely interesting!) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Director Michael Haneke (was: Re: Hal Hartley!) Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:56:38 +0100 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > speaking of films, any Michael Haneke fans out there? I'm not interested in > hearing anything about La Pianiste, which I believe opens here in April, but > I just saw Code Inconnu and Funny Games recently, and I'm massively > impressed. any earlier ones on this level? Hi Jon. I'm not a fan of Haneke, simply because I've only seen his latest film. And even though you don't want to hear about it, I just have to tell you: go and see it! It's fantastic - and at the same time sort of depressing. The two main actors are absolutely fantastic. Huppert just takes your breath away. patRice np: Jeff Mills, From the 21st nr: Horiyoshi III, 108 Heroes of the Suikoden - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #682 Date: 17 Jan 2002 06:35:48 EST Hoping someone can answer the this question. Is the Hockey disc to be released on tzadik contained in the box set? Thanks, Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lsteinmann Subject: Re: Coltrane & Shepp & a call for vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:51:53 +0100 Hi Joseph, yes, there are really some nice recordings with Hutcherson. My favorite is "firebirds" of Prince Lasha with Sonny Simmons (Sept.1967) (on Contemporary) where Hutcherson does some of his best jobs IMO. Also the Eric Dolphy Sessions with Lasha and Simmons (July 1963) features Hutcherson and are amazing, too. Greets from Germany, Lars ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 8:34 AM > Hello, > ...."New Thing At Newport" is a blast. I'll stick up for the 'Trane > stuff, always having dug the velocity/intensity of "One Down, One Up". I do > agree that the Shepp group is the real revelation on the disc, though. These > recordings feature Bobby Hutcherson on vibes, who is also on Dolphy's "Out > to Lunch". These two records stick out to me due to the presence of > Hutcherson, the vibes not being much of a "New Thing" instrument. The rather > harried feel of the Newport stuff is punctuated for me by the vibes, which > possess a level of abstraction and aggression that I've never heard come > from that source on any other occasion. Any experts out there care to > mention any free/avant/new thing records that feature good vibes? How about > some further Hutcherson recordings? > > I remain.... > > Joseph > > NP: Half Japanese- "The Band That Would Be King" > NR: Alfred Jarry- "Ubu Roi" > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: Yearbook Volume 2 Date: 17 Jan 2002 07:12:44 EST Hello Again, Another question for the list. The various artist compilation on rastacan records "Yearbook Vol.2" contains a piece by John Zorn Ensemble. Has this piece been released before on something else? Thanks, Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Gilmore/Coltrane Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:01:50 -0500 Isn't there a story about Trane checking out one of Sun Ra's gigs in the > early '60s and upon hearing John Gilmore blow some wild outside solo Dear > John went running up to the stage screaming "He's got it!!!"? to further elaborate: as i recall, it was just after the Arkestra had moved to NY. Pat Patrick had been there already a couple years and was playing in some latin jazz combo. To help the newly arrived ARkestra members get established, Gilmore was invited to sit in. Gilmore said he didn't really know how to play with latin music, so he played against it. just as almost everyone in the crowd was scratching their head, wondering if Gilmore could actually play, Coltrane apparently came running up yelling "JOhn Gilmore, you GET it!" at least that's my recollection of the story from Szwed's book. >and, frankly, Gilmore is, for my money, every bit as fantastic as >Trane, Wayne, Sonny, Joe, or anyone else. absolutely. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Skip Heller Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:23 PM >> From: Skip Heller > >> the story I got is that Coltrane definitely used his muscle to Shepp a >> deal, >> and same with Pharoah, but not Sun Ra, to whom he owed a bit of a debt. > > Isn't there a story about Trane checking out one of Sun Ra's gigs in the > early '60s and upon hearing John Gilmore blow some wild outside solo Dear > John went running up to the stage screaming "He's got it!!!"? > That story has been widely circulated, and never by John Gilmore, so I believe it to be true. I doubt that it was a fictional or even apocryphal account, and, frankly, Gilmore is, for my money, every bit as fantastic as Trane, Wayne, Sonny, Joe, or anyone else. skip h - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mft4@cornell.edu Subject: Haneke Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:22:59 -0500 (EST) La Pianiste is an excellent film, far better than Haneke's earlier efforts. If you like Funny Games and Code Inconnu, you'll probably like his earlier stuff like The Seventh Continent or Benny's Video, characterized by the same virtuosic technique, bitterness, and hatred towards the audience. With La Pianiste he finally puts some of his ideas to work instead of stifling them with blind rage/angst. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:15:22 -0600 Hartley is pretty well-known in America. "Henry Fool" was sold out when it opened in Chicago. I've seen "Henry Fool", "Flirt", and "Amateur", and while I enjoyed them I never really understood some of the Hartley worship I've encountered. And even harder to understand was an ex-girlfriend's infatuation with Martin Donovan... (and what's with the annoying scores?) Ben >From: duncan youngerman >Reply-To: y-man@wanadoo.fr >To: "Patrice L. Roussel" , > "zorn-list@lists.xmission.com" >Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! >Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1904 22:58:02 +0100 > >Can't answer your question but I'm a total Hartley fan. Is "The Book of >Life" >his latest? If so, is it well received in the States? (I've never yet met >an >american who's ever heard of Hal Hartley or his films and that's pretty >upsetting..) >(Any Hartley related comments welcome, anyone...) >Best, >D. > > >"Patrice L. Roussel" a écrit : > > > Just watched Hal Hartley's THE BOOK OF LIFE and was wondering if >the > > soundtrack ever made it on CD (were credited: Yo La Tengo, Jim O'Rourke, >Gene > > Coleman, PJ Harvey, etc). > > > > > > > > - > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Axelrad" Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:21:51 -0600 I really liked Funny Games, thought it was very disturbing. French director Jacques Rivette had an interesting reaction: "What a disgrace, just a complete piece of shit! I liked his first film, The Seventh Continent (1989), very much, and then each one after that I liked less and less. This one is vile, not in the same way as John Woo, but those two really deserve each other – they should get married. And I never want to meet their children! It's worse than Kubrick with A Clockwork Orange (1971), a film that I hate just as much, not for cinematic reasons but for moral ones. I remember when it came out, Jacques Demy was so shocked that it made him cry. Kubrick is a machine, a mutant, a Martian. He has no human feeling whatsoever. But it's great when the machine films other machines, as in 2001 (1968)." http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/16/rivette.html Haven't checked in a while, but I'm pretty sure there's some Haneke stuff here: http://www.ce-review.org/kinoeye/archive_english.html Ben >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >To: proussel@ichips.intel.com, zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! >Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:45:19 EST > > >In a message dated 1/16/02 8:36:14 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > ><< I watched it on video and I have no idea if the movie has been released >in >the US (sounded like it was mainly produced with French support). >> > >it was definitely on the Sundance Channel, that was where I saw it. > >speaking of films, any Michael Haneke fans out there? I'm not interested in >hearing anything about La Pianiste, which I believe opens here in April, >but >I just saw Code Inconnu and Funny Games recently, and I'm massively >impressed. any earlier ones on this level? > >Jon >www.erstwhilerecords.com > >- > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Widebeat@aol.com Subject: Concert at TONIC Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:38:52 EST With the hope that this announcement is appropriate for this list, I would like to invite you to the following concert in New York City: TONIC presents THE LUKAS LIGETI TRIO TUESDAY, JANUARY 22 at 8pm LUKAS LIGETI (drums), BRUCE EISENBEIL (guitar), MICHAEL MANRING (bass) This will be a unique concert full of dimensions, energy and spontaneity. Lukas Ligeti has recorded and/or performed with some of the finest musicians around including John Zorn, Wadada Leo Smith, Gianni Gebbia, Henry Kaiser, Wilber Morris, Warren Smith, Ratzo Harris, Edward Rollin, Paul Brantley and many others. Ligeti has appeared at festivals throughout the USA and abroad. His recordings as a leader have explored collaborations with improvising musicians, electronics, African pop and hybrid beats. Michael Manring, who is visiting from the San Francisco Bay Area, is highly regarded as a great electric bass virtuoso. Known for his collaborations with the late acoustic guitar legend Michael Hedges and his groundbreaking solo work, Michael rarely performs in NYC, and opportunities to hear him breaking new ground in a group improvised context are far rarer yet. Manring has peformed and/or recorded with Paul McCandless, Steve Rodby , Alex Skolnick, Steve Morse and Steve Smith, to name just a few. His latest album is The Book of Flame. Bruce Eisenbeil is a guitarist who in the past year performed with Cecil Taylor and in May with Milford Graves at the Vision Festival. He has also performed and/or recorded with David Murray, Andrew Cyrille, Bob Moses, Badal Roy, William Parker, Ellery Eskelin, Gregg Bendian, Steve Swell, Matt Maneri, Roy Campbell and many others. Eisenbeil has appeared at many festivals including: Texaco New York Jazz Festival, CMJ Music Conference, Buffalo Interprov Festival, Philadelphia Mellon Jazz Festival, Trenton Avant-garde Festival, and the Philadelphia Fringe Festival. His third CD, OPIUM, was just released on the cutting edge label CIMP. We hope that you can make it out to this concert. TONIC 107 Norfolk St. (betw. Rivington & Delancey), NYC (212)358-7501, www.tonicnyc.com Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8pm, one set $10 F train to Delancey Street or the J/M/Z trains to Essex Street. For more info visit: www.tonicnyc.com www.eisenbeil.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 04 Jan 2002 13:35:21 +0100 --------------C46DBD1C9E69B0BF76A56823 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ben Axelrad a écrit : > Hartley is pretty well-known in America. "Henry Fool" was sold out when it > opened in Chicago. Good to know that. > > > I've seen "Henry Fool", "Flirt", and "Amateur", and while I enjoyed them I > never really understood some of the Hartley worship I've encountered. Might have to do with encountering intelligence in film. > And > even harder to understand was an ex-girlfriend's infatuation with Martin > Donovan... I like him better than Brad Pitt myself. DY. > > > > > - --------------C46DBD1C9E69B0BF76A56823 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Ben Axelrad a écrit :

Hartley is pretty well-known in America.  "Henry Fool" was sold out when it
opened in Chicago.
Good to know that.
 

I've seen "Henry Fool", "Flirt", and "Amateur", and while I enjoyed them I
never really understood some of the Hartley worship I've encountered.

Might have to do with encountering intelligence in film.
 And
even harder to understand was an ex-girlfriend's infatuation with Martin
Donovan...
I like him better than Brad Pitt myself.

DY.

 
 
 

-

--------------C46DBD1C9E69B0BF76A56823-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Haneke Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:52:41 EST wow, I had no idea of the intensity of emotion that Haneke inspired. you guys are making him sound like Oliver Stone, though. maybe it's because I share some of what an earlier poster referred to as "hatred towards the audience", finding almost no movies out there that I find worth my undivided attention for two hours and not fully understanding why people attend most movies, but I found Funny Games fascinating. I don't claim to know nearly as much about film as some others here, but I'm slowly wading through my brother's vast DVD collection, and the only other films I've seen recently which I found as compelling as Funny Games were Roeg's Walkabout and Dreyer's Day Of Wrath. also, for those who think FG portrays some sort of idealized, unrealistic, "blind rage/angst", someone very close to me experienced a situation not too far from the one portrayed in the movie, a home invasion by two young nihilistic upperclass males essentially thrill-seeking. it didn't result in any deaths, but I don't think it's as far from reality as you assume. both Code Inconnu and Funny Games share not only superb filmmaking technique, but very realistic characters, even in their extremes. he seems to be much better known overseas than in the US; almost everyone I mention him to here is unaware of his work. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com P.S. I'm a big fan of Hard-Boiled and Face/Off also, so maybe Rivette is at least partially right. and I'm with Ben, I never understood Hartley worship either. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: hockey Date: 17 Jan 2002 16:08:45 +0000 yeah, hockey, pool, archery and lacrosse constitute the 'parachute years' box set, but my guess is the hockey cd that's forthcoming is a new recording. in the notes to 'xu feng' zorn talks about doing a series of definitive recordings of game pieces. the new 'cobra', no doubt, is also a part of that effort. kurt _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: Hartley; Ibarra quartet Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:16:52 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas > chatterton > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:26 PM > anyone have other > recommendations for Hal > Hartley films? "Trust" and "Simple Men" are my favorites -- the comical deadpan acting, the lean, darkly humorous writing, the shot compositions, and also my introduction to a fantastic set of actors (Martin Donovan, Adrienne Shelly, Robert Burke, Edie Falco, Karen Sillas, Elina Lowensohn...). Plus there's a tres "kool" hommage to Godard's "Band of Outsiders" in "Simple Men" that alone makes the movie worth seeing. (There's another one in ''Amateur," but it's played too straight -- unfortunately, like the later films ("Flirt" and "Henry Fool"), there's a lot more flab when Hartley gets a bigger budget.) On an unrelated note, is anyone going to the Marilyn Crispell Trio / Susie Ibarra Quartet concert in March in San Francisco? I know who Crispell is playing with (Motian! Peacock!), but who else is in the Ibarra Quartet? Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ahorton Subject: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:42:49 -0500 Here's some stuff I picked up recently: Filmworks X- "In the mirror of Maya Deren"- Very nice! I was expecting "The Gift Part II", but this is really different (but with a similar "laid-back" vibe). This reminds me more of the first track on "Taboo and Exile", with the moody strings, piano, and Baptista's percussion. Filmworks VII- "Cynical Hysterie Hour"- Zorn doing cartoon music; this was actually much better than I expected. I love the "toy bossa" music, and the "toy punk" numbers. Very fun...reminds me of Mr. Bungle. Les Baxter- "The Exotic Moods of..." - Nice 2CD "greatest hits" of Baxter. I've been hankering for stuff like this since "The Gift." What should be my next exotica purchase- Arthur Lyman, Martin Denny, or one of those bad "Ultra-Lounge" comps? Nobukaza Takemura- I forgot the title, but it's his new one on Thrill Jockey. This is much more organic and melodic than his previous work; one track is a collaboration with Jon McEntire and Doug Mccombs that lasts for 34 mins! Is anyone else looking forward to the new Susie Ibarra? I made sure that my store ordered that and the new Cobra. andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Ahmadi Subject: RE: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:50:58 -0600 I've actually been enjoying an lp I found used in Berkley called "Yma Sumac, Voices of Xtabay". Good stuff kga -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:43 AM Here's some stuff I picked up recently: Filmworks X- "In the mirror of Maya Deren"- Very nice! I was expecting "The Gift Part II", but this is really different (but with a similar "laid-back" vibe). This reminds me more of the first track on "Taboo and Exile", with the moody strings, piano, and Baptista's percussion. Filmworks VII- "Cynical Hysterie Hour"- Zorn doing cartoon music; this was actually much better than I expected. I love the "toy bossa" music, and the "toy punk" numbers. Very fun...reminds me of Mr. Bungle. Les Baxter- "The Exotic Moods of..." - Nice 2CD "greatest hits" of Baxter. I've been hankering for stuff like this since "The Gift." What should be my next exotica purchase- Arthur Lyman, Martin Denny, or one of those bad "Ultra-Lounge" comps? Nobukaza Takemura- I forgot the title, but it's his new one on Thrill Jockey. This is much more organic and melodic than his previous work; one track is a collaboration with Jon McEntire and Doug Mccombs that lasts for 34 mins! Is anyone else looking forward to the new Susie Ibarra? I made sure that my store ordered that and the new Cobra. andrew - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:54:41 -0800 > > Les Baxter- "The Exotic Moods of..." - Nice 2CD "greatest hits" of Baxter. > I've been hankering for stuff like this since "The Gift." What should be my > next exotica purchase- Arthur Lyman, Martin Denny, or one of those bad > "Ultra-Lounge" comps? Yma Sumac -- Voice Of The Xtabay (arranged and conducted by Les Baxter) and/or Mambo (Billy May) Robert Drasnin -- Voodoo (one of the undersung masterpieces of the genre) If you're of the LP school, Les' RITUAL OF THE SAVAGE is the ONE. PRTOS OF PLEASURE, STONE GOD, and TAMBOO are all on the A list, and JEWELS OF THE SEA and SPACE ESCAPADE both have nice stuff on 'em, even tho they're not Les at his all-time. RITUAL was his masterstroke, along with XTABAY. skip h np: NRBQ, ATSA MY BAND - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Hal Hartley! Date: 17 Jan 2002 16:55:06 +0000 >From: "Ben Axelrad" French director Jacques Rivette had an interesting reaction: It's worse than Kubrick with A Clockwork Orange >(1971), >a film that I hate just as much, not for cinematic reasons but for moral >ones. I remember when it came out, Jacques Demy was so shocked that it made >him cry. Kubrick is a machine, a mutant, a Martian. He has no human feeling >whatsoever. Excuse MY ignorance but who the f**k is Jacques Rivette? Man, he's sure out of it with that "assessment" of Kubrick. Clockwork Orange is probably one of the most "moral" films ever made! _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:46:18 -0500 >I've actually been enjoying an lp I found used in Berkley called "Yma Sumac, >Voices of Xtabay". Good stuff Yma is awesome. if you dig Xtabay, try Mambo next. her whole 50's capitol catalog was reissued in the 90's. sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:01:18 -0800 > Yma is awesome. if you dig Xtabay, try Mambo next. her whole 50's capitol > catalog was reissued in the 90's. > > sean And the tour in support of that reissue series was the stuff that bad dreams are made of, Sean. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RadioGong@aol.com Subject: Trade Zorn, Japanese noise/hardcore shows? Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:21:21 EST Looking to trade for above. Please email me if interested. Thanx. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Kayser" Subject: Cutting Room & Tonic Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:23:24 -0500 Pardon the intrusion, but if anyone was able to record the two recent Bobby Previte shows at Cutting Room (Through the Walls) Jan. 14 and Tonic Jan. 16 please contact me off list. I have lots of jazz to trade. Alan alankayser@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kasra George Ahmadi Subject: Jacob Fred in NY Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:50:07 -0600 I wanted to let some of you know that a band I mentioned earlier, Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey, will be headlining at the Knitting Factory in March (I believe it's the 8th and 9th). I don't want to sound paranoid but there are business arrangements in the making as far as a live album is concerned and I didn't want to jeopardize any of that by speaking too soon. JFJO have been incredible friends throughout these past 8 years and I just happened to have some information relayed to me from one of their members. kga np--the instruction manual to my new mixer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Hartley; Ibarra quartet Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:12:39 EST << On an unrelated note, is anyone going to the Marilyn Crispell Trio / Susie Ibarra Quartet concert in March in San Francisco? I know who Crispell is playing with (Motian! Peacock!), but who else is in the Ibarra Quartet? Later, Ben >> I will definitely be going to that show as weIl as others on the list I'm sure. This was news to me, so I looked it up. March 21, Yerba Buena Theater, part of SF Jazz Fest's spring season. I couldn't find a lineup for Ibarra anywhere, not even at her website. I see David S. Ware 4tet is doing a show also, supposedly based on Sonny Rollins influences. Sometimes I go to shows with fellow zornlisters Will and Davy. Cheers, John - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 17 Jan 2002 19:13:23 +0100 (CET) Hi, > > Nobukaza Takemura- I forgot the title, but it's his > new one on Thrill Jockey. > This is much more organic and melodic than his > previous work; one track is a > collaboration with Jon McEntire and Doug Mccombs > that lasts for 34 mins! When was this released? Sounds really interesting. > Is anyone else looking forward to the new Susie > Ibarra? Me!!! I made sure that my > store ordered that and the new Cobra. You will have to wait for cobra until March, it's been delayed. Best, Efrén > andrew > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pedro moreno Subject: RE: Satoko Fujii Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:09:15 -0600 FYI. Satoko is bringing her Japanese Quartet with Tatsuya in late spring early summer. So far I know of dates in NYC, Philly (painted bride) Houston, Austin, and San Diego (spruce street forum).... I will post an itinerary when it is all confirmed She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville..... hi -- yeah, absolutely, fuji is a phenom, and 'vulcan' is far from one of her best. tatsuya, unsurprisingly, plays loud, although not completely drowning out everyone else, and it's fun to hear him in a jazz context. as was mentioned, the dresser/black trio is quite good. but easily her best stuff is the big band records, specifically the east/west double cd. she is right up there with william parker in bringing the big band into the present day. agreed, too, that she should be more recognized in the states than she is, although spending more time here would surely help (she lived here when she attended the new england conservatory and studied under paul bley, as i understand, but now spends her time back in japan, and seems to play here very rarely). kg Pedro Moreno Epistrophy Arts http://www.epistrophyarts.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: Massacre Live Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:08:58 -0800 (PST) >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:32:54 +0000 >From: "Arthur Gadney" >Subject: Re: Massacre live >Hm, I do like some of Laswell's stuff, but still kind >of agree... I mean, in >EVERY impro situation you can be sure that he will >start dubbing. > >I haven't heard "Metldown" by Massacre yet, but would >be highly surprised if >he didn't dub trhough that as well. Any comments on >this album? Does it >rock? SHould I by it? How is Haywards singing? Yeah it rocks- might rock a bit too much actually as Laswell and Hayward often hit familiar grooves throughout, but Fred plays at the top of his game. There's no singing as far as I heard on my two listens of the disc but Hayward plays a little harmonium I think on a small part. It does contain all the Laswell trademarks I guess, but they didn't bother me. And he even does that synthy volume swelling thing he seems to do on every more recent recording I've heard, but it doesn't last that long and I didn't find it annoying. There's also a whole track of the crowd cheering for an encore and it seems almost completely unedited from the performance (which I was not at). Very good I think. ---Ryan Novak __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: RE: Satoko Fujii Date: 17 Jan 2002 20:25:25 +0000 >She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville..... Any news on who else will play?? I know Eugene Chadbourne will duo with Rene Lussier, which ought to be great fun. NP: Boredoms: Rebore vol. 0 NR: http://www.centerhealingracism.org/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: Massacre Live Date: 17 Jan 2002 20:32:09 +0000 >There's no singing as far as I heard on my two listens >of the disc but Hayward plays a little harmonium I >think on a small part. On "Funny Valentine" Hayward does some "choking" vocals like, perhaps, Phil Mintom or so, and it works great. But when I saw Massacre at the Moers and Warsaw jazz festivals he actualyl sang real songs, which was quite horrible. Bye bye NP: Jim O'Rourke: "Insignificance" NR: The End of Days : Fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount, by Gershom Gorenberg (scariest book I have read for years!) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Satoko Fujii Date: 17 Jan 2002 15:40:05 -0500 The other name I've heard is Aki Takase. Not to be missed if her last concerts in Canada were any indication. James Hale Arthur Gadney wrote: > >She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville..... > > Any news on who else will play?? I know Eugene Chadbourne will duo with Rene > Lussier, which ought to be great fun. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MorMovies@aol.com Subject: Re: Massacre Live Date: 17 Jan 2002 15:39:21 EST I think MELTDOWN is the cd of the year. Laswell navigates between dub lines and those scary envelope filter sounds. I once told that him that I thought his bass sounded like rolling thunder and he said that is precisely what he tries to achieve. For some reason I never get bored of Laswell's dub style. It's all about the groove and not the notes. On the other hand he usually breaks it up with his "free" runs and harmonics. Hayward definitely performs some vocals on one but if you listen closely, it sounds like they were drained out of the mix. I have other live shows and he screaming right into the mic. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nirav Soni" Subject: Re: Suzuki (NZC) Date: 17 Jan 2002 16:32:45 -0500 > I recommend this site for everybody interested in > Seijun Suzuki: I recommend this to any NYC fans: http://www.japansociety.org/film.htm . I rented "Tokyo Drifter" and Takeshi Kitano's "Brother" today....so it'll be a fun filled two days of Japanese violence! Nirav -- OnNow- Iannis Xenakis- Chamber Music 1955-1990 (Auvidis) AIM: Icefactory37 "Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Hartley; Ibarra quartet Date: 17 Jan 2002 17:13:10 -0500 on 02.01.17 11:16 AM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote: > Marilyn Crispell Trio / Susie > Ibarra Quartet concert in March in San Francisco? Oh my gawd. Is this a tandem tour or just you got extremely lucky ??? I'd really like to know, RL ---------- *** Many THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01] http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag-- ETC., - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drool puddle kittens Subject: Re: IBARRA quartet personnel Date: 17 Jan 2002 14:34:52 -0800 trevor dunn, sylvie courvoisier, greg tardy, and ibarra --GC (also that same march weekend--three nights of john schott at TUVA space in berkeley, with ben goldberg, scott amendola, and others) > I know who Crispell is > playing with (Motian! Peacock!), but who else is in the Ibarra Quartet? > > Later, > Ben >>> > I will definitely be going to that show as weIl as others on the list I'm > sure. This was news to me, so I looked it up. March 21, Yerba Buena > Theater, part of SF Jazz Fest's spring season. I couldn't find a lineup for > Ibarra anywhere, not even at her website. > - - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: Hartley; Ibarra quartet Date: 17 Jan 2002 17:55:34 -0500 This is part of SFJazz's Spring Season, curated by Joshua Redman. The opening theme is Women In Jazz, which also features Maria Schneider Orch with Ingrid Jensen, Cassandra Wilson and Jane Bunnett, as well as a panel discussion on jazz and sexism chaired by Angela Davis, and a night of rare films on women jazz musicians. All this is probably on the SFJazz site. James Hale Rick Lopez wrote: > on 02.01.17 11:16 AM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote: > > > Marilyn Crispell Trio / Susie > > Ibarra Quartet concert in March in San Francisco? > > Oh my gawd. Is this a tandem tour or just you got extremely lucky ??? > > I'd really like to know, > > RL - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: new purchases and thoughts: Date: 18 Jan 2002 00:55:30 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- > Filmworks VII- "Cynical Hysterie Hour"- Zorn doing cartoon music; this was > actually much better than I expected. I love the "toy bossa" music, and the > "toy punk" numbers. Very fun...reminds me of Mr. Bungle. One of the first cds I bought. I was a little bit angry first because it's so short, and i did not quite get it for some time. But it grew on me - I consider it as one of the most interesting Zorn's efforts. An early version of those tunes is featured on FW III, if memory serves. Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D Dvb" Subject: Re: Ibarra/Crispell Date: 17 Jan 2002 15:54:28 -0800 I feel it is my patriotic duty to go to this Crispell/Ibarra twin bill show. The economy is down and damn it, my country needs me to spend dollars. Are tickets on sale yet? Also, Mats Gustaffson at Mills College on March 14th too! And one last thing...isn't Sonny Rollins still alive? Oh well, I wasn't too impressed with Mr. Ware last time he played Oakland. I know that the majority of this list is NYC-based so these posts are boring for you guys but we have to hear about your shows and we are STARVED for shows out here... --davy, who wonders if Nicholas Cage and John Woo are now lovers and what does Chow Yun-Fat think about all that anyway? ><< On an unrelated note, is anyone going to the Marilyn Crispell Trio / >Susie > Ibarra Quartet concert in March in San Francisco? I know who Crispell is > playing with (Motian! Peacock!), but who else is in the Ibarra Quartet? > > Later, > Ben > >> > I will definitely be going to that show as weIl as others on the list >I'm >sure. This was news to me, so I looked it up. March 21, Yerba Buena >Theater, part of SF Jazz Fest's spring season. I couldn't find a lineup >for >Ibarra anywhere, not even at her website. I see David S. Ware 4tet is doing >a >show also, supposedly based on Sonny Rollins influences. Sometimes I go to >shows with fellow zornlisters Will and Davy. Cheers, > John _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: aki takase Date: 17 Jan 2002 18:56:20 EST << From: James Hale The other name I've heard is Aki Takase. Not to be missed if her last concerts in Canada were any indication. >> I love Aki Takase's enja discs, but her new Leo disc Le Cahier du Bal is just stunning. The enjas i recommend incl. 'clapping music' w sunny murray and reggie workman, and one with string quartet, Steve Koenig n.p.; denman maroney- fluxations- (superb! -w rothenberg ballou dresser norton) n.r.: my students' book reports.. dios mio!@ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Ibarra/Crispell Date: 17 Jan 2002 19:54:38 -0500 on 02.01.17 6:54 PM, D Dvb at d_dvb@hotmail.com wrote: > wasn't too impressed with Mr. Ware last time he played Oakland. When was this? Anyone who has an opinion of the new DSW 4tet and new Shipp discs? Wondering, afraid to speak, lest I alienate... Thanks ahead of time, RL ---------- *** Many THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01] http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag-- ETC., - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Ibarra/Crispell; Crispell recommendations? Date: 17 Jan 2002 17:03:51 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of D Dvb > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:54 PM > I feel it is my patriotic duty to go to this Crispell/Ibarra twin > bill show. > The economy is down and damn it, my country needs me to spend dollars. > Are tickets on sale yet? If you're an SFJazz member, yes. But for a non-member like me, tickets go on sale this Sunday. The Cassandra Wilson concert should be great too, but the last time I saw her at the Masonic the sound was pretty bad. And thanks to GC (and all the others) for the info. And on a related note, any Crispell recommendations for a newbie? (I'm leaning towards "Santuerio," if only for Mark Feldman's presence on it, but "Hyperion" sounds damn good too.) Anyone? Rick? Thanks in advance, Ben np: gillian welch, "hell among the yearlings" http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 20:05:50 EST << mention any free/avant/new thing records that feature good vibes? >> yes, definitely anything by karl berger is fine. dont over look the great khan jamal, whose release have been few but solid. and the perennial gunter hampel, most discs great, and his older vinyl specially wonderful and still available. try his amazing LP with jeanne lee "that came down on me." his website is www.gunterhampelmusic.de and he's in nyc for a few months if you want to buy direct from him. not all his newest discs are great though some are and i forget which.. arggh. for my taste, avoid bill ware's dull knit cds tho he can be fine in concert. also, percussionist warren smith has some fierce vibe playing on many discs. Steve Koenig n.p.: kangaroo note 'soundness" public eyesore #25 wonderful free sax blowing with electronics and skronk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: aki takase Date: 17 Jan 2002 22:14:12 -0500 Acousticlv@aol.com wrote: > I love Aki Takase's enja discs, > but her new Leo disc Le Cahier du Bal is just stunning. Got it right here on my desk, but haven't listened to it yet. It just jumped to the top of the pile. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: vibes Date: 17 Jan 2002 21:00:50 -0800 is it me, or has walt dickerson escaped mention? his PATCH OF BLUE has a lot going for it, incl Sun Ra in a rare turn as sideman. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Yearbook Volume 2 Date: 18 Jan 2002 01:32:27 -0500 No. It's a 5:50 excerpt from a live performance of Zorn's 'Xu Feng,' recorded live at the Great American Music Hall in September 1991. It's performed by Myles Boisen (Splatter Trio guitarist/bassist), Gannon Hall (drums), Bob Ostertag (sampler), David Slusser (electronics), Trey Spruance (guitar) and William Winant (percussion). Zorn was the prompter. Sounds like the makings of a fine performance, but at just under six minutes, it's a tease. And of course, there's now an artist-approved "definitive" version of 'Xu Feng' on Tzadik... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Poisonhead@aol.com Another question for the list. The various artist compilation on rastacan records "Yearbook Vol.2" contains a piece by John Zorn Ensemble. Has this piece been released before on something else? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alban Jacques Subject: Fred Frith Clearing.... Date: 18 Jan 2002 10:39:16 +0100 Hi, I m new in this list.... I come from France and the album that was the best for me last year was Fred Frith Clearing.... Somebody knows if he will do some solo shows in Europe or more precisely in France ??? Alban - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Blechmann Subject: Re: Fred Frith Clearing.... Date: 18 Jan 2002 11:15:33 +0100 > Hi, I m new in this list.... I come from France and the album that > was the best for me last year was Fred Frith Clearing.... Somebody > knows if he will do some solo shows in Europe or more precisely in > France ??? > Alban fred frith will do a solo gig in esslingen, germany, in june. you can find his performance schedule at www.fredfrith.com, but it is not very up to date... Tim mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.net ICQ: 96771783 http://nav.to/timblech -- The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" Jack Kerouac - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Theo Klaase Subject: Massacre - Meltdown Date: 18 Jan 2002 03:56:27 -0800 (PST) Massacre's Meltdown is indeed one of the best releases this year. The energy of performing with no material is electrifying. Fred Frith is more like an alchemist that a guitarist. He just brews sounds like no other. Laswell and Haward are amazing too. More Live albums by Massacre - let's start a petition. ..and if you really like this album, try listening to Jim Black's "Alas No Axis." ....waiting for the Live Naked City... -Theo __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Fenton Subject: North Indian classical recommendations Date: 18 Jan 2002 12:16:24 +0000 Hello there Can anyone recommend any North Indian classical releases for me? I have been listening to a copy of Pandit Pran Nath's 'Ragas of Morning and Night' for a few days now (and little else besides) but given the fact that other music by this great singer is hard to come by, I don't know where to try next. Can anyone on the list help? Ian Fenton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: hockey & Rodriquez Date: 18 Jan 2002 06:23:58 -0600 "Kurt Gottschalk" wrote: >yeah, hockey, pool, archery and lacrosse constitute the 'parachute years' >box set, but my guess is the hockey cd that's forthcoming is a new >recording. in the notes to 'xu feng' zorn talks about doing a series of >definitive recordings of game pieces. the new 'cobra', no doubt, is also a >part of that effort. All true, except that the first sentence of the description of the disc at the Tzadik site is "Original recordings from 1980." Has anyone heard the Roberto Juan Rodriguez disc on Tzadik yet? I haven't heard a lot of the neo-klezmer discs in the Radical Jewish Culture series that made much of an impact on me, but some of the non-klezmer stuff has been among my favorites from the label. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 USA 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Sweet Subject: Re: vibes (Karl Berger and the Creative Music Studio) Date: 18 Jan 2002 08:45:34 -0500 > yes, definitely anything by karl berger is fine. So glad to see Karl Berger's name mentioned on the list. It gives me an opportunity for a shameless plug. Karl was (and is) the director of the Creative Music Studio (CMS) in Woodstock, New York. CMS was (and is trying to be again) the world's leading study center for creative, improvisational, and world music. It was a community that was made up of, at one time or another, the most amazing lineup of the world's masters that you could hope to dream up: Don Cherry, Nana Vasconcelos, Abdullah Ibrahim, Dave Holland, Ed Blackwell, Trilok Gurtu, Carla Bley, Cyro Baptista, Marilyn Crispell, Cecil Taylor, Anthony Braxton, Jack DeJohnette, Collin Walcott--I'm just getting warmed up here, folks, the list goes on and on. Even John Zorn spent time at CMS. Read the book: Music Universe, Music Mind, Revisiting the Creative Music Studio, Woodstock, New York (go to http://www.arborville.com). Bob Sweet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-JZ FS/FA: Takemura, Aube 7"s, K.K. Null etc. Date: 18 Jan 2002 09:13:43 -0500 Clearing out some items Zorn listees may be interested in: ** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas) If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. OFFERS -- Aube/Altai Chamber Orchestra - "N/E|Sound (remix)" AUS 7" (Syntactic: taube42) 1997 [Orange vinyl. Aube sound source: "Sound" by the Altai Chamber Orchestra. Side B is a remix of "Sound" by Aube with additional vocals by Katharina Svejkovsky. Limited & numbered (#37/100). Mint. Deleted.] OFFERS -- Aube/Noaidi - "Empa" FIN 7" (Freak Animal: 008) 1997 [Aube sound source: female voice (Mutsumi Oku). Limited to 200 in full-color blue ink sleeve. Mint. Deleted.] OFFERS -- Aube/Source Direkt - "Sight Forward Aberration/EGKZ" GER 7" (SD-Image: v01) 1997 [Aube sound source: metal. Comes in full-color silver & black sleeve. First 100 copies given away at Aube/Source Direkt show in Plauen, Germany (June 14, 1997). Limited & numbered (#278/300). Mint. Deleted.] $16 -- Le Syndicat - "Ignitur" HOL LP (Staalplaat: sp003) 1992 [Intense neoclassical, percussive, loop-based musique brut from 1988-1989. Limited & numbered (435/1000). Mint. Deleted.] $25 -- K.K. Null - "Invisible Fire/Mad Water" AUS 7" (Syntactic: zero41) 2000 [Blue vinyl. Ltd. & numbered (#91/100). Deleted.] $ 9 -- Nobukazu Takemura - "Scope" US CD (Thrill Jockey) 1999 [Material from 1996 - 1998. Melodic drones, hypnotic homages to Oval and Reich, off-kilter glitchscapes. Feat. Aki Tsuyuko.] Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: Re: vibes (Karl Berger and the Creative Music Studio) Date: 18 Jan 2002 15:24:18 +0100 >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Sweet [mailto:bsweet@umich.edu]=20 >Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 2:46 PM >Subject: Re: vibes (Karl Berger and the Creative Music Studio) > >> yes, definitely anything by karl berger is fine. > >So glad to see Karl Berger's name mentioned on the list. It=20 >gives me an opportunity for a shameless plug. > >most amazing lineup of the world's masters-][SNIP]-I'm just getting=20 >warmed up here, folks, the list goes on and on. Even John Zorn spent time at CMS. and Tom Cora! (not listed on the website). Any detailed info on that period would be appreciated! Does your book have pictures/a discography/sessionography/ tourography? St=E9phane >Read the book: Music Universe, Music Mind, Revisiting the=20 >Creative Music Studio, Woodstock, New York (go to http://www.arborville.com). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: Threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 09:40:29 -0500 I recently purchased Henry Threadgill Very, Very Circus's "Spirit of Nuff Nuff." It sounded intriguing and came highly recommended by a friend I was with. I'm not so sure about it right now. I've listened to it several times now and only enjoy parts of it. What are some other feelings on this album? Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Threadgill Date: 19 Jan 2002 02:23:04 +1100 > I recently purchased Henry Threadgill Very, Very Circus's "Spirit of > Nuff Nuff." It sounded intriguing and came highly recommended by a > friend I was with. I'm not so sure about it right now. I've listened > to it several times now and only enjoy parts of it. What are some other > feelings on this album? Haven't got that particular album, but I have a few other Threadgill/Very Very Circus albums and find that I'll love one track and then be scratching my head about another. But he's got a style all his own, and I think in the end that's what really draws me to his stuff... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 10:18:48 -0500 for my money Too Much Sugar for a Dime is the one to check out. Great compositions and Gene Lake kicks ass on drums. sean -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Julian Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:23 AM > I recently purchased Henry Threadgill Very, Very Circus's "Spirit of > Nuff Nuff." It sounded intriguing and came highly recommended by a > friend I was with. I'm not so sure about it right now. I've listened > to it several times now and only enjoy parts of it. What are some other > feelings on this album? Haven't got that particular album, but I have a few other Threadgill/Very Very Circus albums and find that I'll love one track and then be scratching my head about another. But he's got a style all his own, and I think in the end that's what really draws me to his stuff... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 17:42:05 +0100 (CET) Hi, I recently got Very, "Spirit", "Too Much sugar for a Dime" and "Makin' a Move". I listened to them once and they weren't played again. I don't really understand why so much appraisal and what's so special about Laswell's productions for Henry Threadgill. Definitely not my cup of tea. I didn't even get to scratch my head at anything. Just an opinion. Best, Efrén > > I recently purchased Henry Threadgill Very, Very > Circus's "Spirit of > Nuff Nuff." It sounded intriguing and came highly > recommended by a > friend I was with. I'm not so sure about it right > now. I've listened > to it several times now and only enjoy parts of it. > What are some other > feelings on this album? > > Zach > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 17:14:30 +0000 'spirit of nuff nuff' is probably one of thread's least accessible discs, definitely a strange place to start. some of the, uh, brighter discs, like 'too much sugar for a dime' or 'carry the day' or 'where's your cup' or 'just the facts and pass the bucket' would probably be an easier place to begin. the two new ones are quite nice. there's definite, y'know, threads that run through all of his work, and while there's a few that are nonessential ('live air', 'make a move'), he's really a composer that's more rewarding the more you listen. march rhythms, hidden duets, repeated triplets ... there's a lot of components that he uses in different ways. if i had to pick a first disc, it'd probably be 'song from out of my trees' on black saint. man, i love threadgill.... i kinda don't wanna quit writing about him. but i will. kg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 12:10:43 -0500 >he's really a composer that's more rewarding the more you listen. march rhythms, >hidden duets, repeated triplets ... there's a lot of components that he uses >in different ways. great comment Kurt. Too much Sugar really revealed that the first time I listened on headphones. Listening that way made it easier for me to pick out each players' part, rather than hearing the entire mass of music. it also demonstrated that everyone is really playing a composed part, it's not just a blowing session. sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 12:27:50 EST my favorite Threadgill disc, although it's long out of print, is Air Lore on Novus. the trio with the great Steve McCall deconstructing New Orleans standards like Buddy Bolden's Blues, very impressive. I have most of his discs as a leader, which I usually find not as exciting as I'd hoped. if anyone's desperately looking for any of the out of print ones, e-mail me privately and we can probably work something out. on a separate note, the new ones may very well be good (I liked the first track on Up Popped...), but damn, is the packaging ugly. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 11:29:08 -0600 Wow, Henry Threadgill is one of my favorite composers, I love the way he ties all the elements of his groups together and pairs them up or puts them into other little subgroups playing off of each other. I think it can take several listens to really sort of break through the density of some of the bands. That said "nuff nuff" is sort of an embryonic version of VVC and I think that band really shines on "carry the day" and "too much sugar" in particular. I love his dirges, marches and blues tunes as well. I'd say check out either of the 2 above or some of the sextet LPs on novus or about time before giving up. Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 13:18:24 EST I actually really like the quirky cover art for 'Everybodys Mouth's a Book.' It's fun and very different than most else out there. Well, to each his own... jeff JonAbbey2@aol.com writes: > on a separate note, the new ones may very well be good (I liked the first > track on Up Popped...), but damn, is the packaging ugly. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 13:55:42 -0500 After hearing all of Threadgill's post-Air recordings, the most surprising thing about seeing Make A Move the first time was HOW thoroughly composed it is. Even after several years in the band, Brandon Ross was staring holes in the music. James Hale Sean Westergaard wrote: > great comment Kurt. Too much Sugar really revealed that the first time I > listened on headphones. Listening that way made it easier for me to pick > out each players' part, rather than hearing the entire mass of music. it > also demonstrated that everyone is really playing a composed part, it's not > just a blowing session. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: crispell, threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 10:59:25 -0800 I recommend Crispell's "nothing ever was, anyway ... the music of annette peacock" (ECM) for starters, with motion and peacock. absolutely gorgeous, fully formed music that reveals nuances of both peacock's and crispell's personalities. a little gentler than crispell's more CTish work, but very potent.... for a more fully improvised, spontaneous beauty, more intense, try the "GAIA".... as for very very circus, i found the sound of "spirit" difficult for my ears to swallow, but i was lured in more by the subsequent discs. and then live, even more seductive. ... the sound of tubas and electric guitars together is challenging, i think both to capture, and to hear, but HT created a rich, dramatic soundscape unlike anybody. haunting and perky at the same time, playful and dangerous. if you find nothing there for you to gnaw on, you're certainly not alone, judging from how short-lived his stint was with columbia.... for me, his sextett albums -- especially the ones on about time -- remain my favorite, although the new "up jumped the two lips" has been getting plenty of play around mi casa -- and was on my top 10 2002.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mwoodwor Subject: at victoriaville Date: 18 Jan 2002 15:03:11 -0400 In addition to the other artists that have already been mentioned, I'm fairly certain that Merzbow will be coming again this year to Victoriaville. So that's 1.Merzbow 2.Satoki Fuji Duo 3.Rene Lussier/Eugene Chadborne Duo DId I forget anything that's already been mentioned and does anyone know of anyone else that's coming? wudz. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: at victoriaville Date: 18 Jan 2002 14:15:40 EST In a message dated 1/18/02 2:04:41 PM, mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca writes: << DId I forget anything that's already been mentioned and does anyone know of anyone else that's coming? >> Polwechsel will be there also, as will a large-band Keith Tippett project. there are attempts being made to bring the Tippett project to NYC also, and Polwechsel will not be playing NYC around that time, as I had been trying to arrange. I never understand why Michel Levasseur likes to keep the lineup secret as long as possible, but I guess he has his reasons. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: Re: threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 19:51:40 +0000 a few years ago, i asked brandon (who was also in vvcircus, so he's been playing with the man for over a decade) how much of the music was composed and how much was improvised. he furrowed his brow, looked down for a moment, looked back at me and smiled and said "it's not really like that." kg >After hearing all of Threadgill's post-Air recordings, the most surprising >thing about seeing Make A Move the first time was HOW thoroughly composed >it >is. Even after several years in the band, Brandon Ross was staring holes in >the music. > >James Hale _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Smey" Subject: re: Threadgill Date: 18 Jan 2002 15:59:13 -0500 I'll just continue to "vote" for the most accessible Threadgill's -- Too Much Sugar and Carry the Day, IMO. Like some on the list I bought Too Much Sugar based on his HT's reputation and was at first mystified and annoyed, but man did it grow on me eventually. After those 2, move on to Makin' a Move or Song Out of My Trees for a few very interesting chamber pieces. I must say I miss the Very Very Circus. The new, smaller groups just aren't as fun. -D np: Magnetic Fields, 69 Love Songs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Whit Schonbein Subject: ibarra quartet personel (maybe) Date: 18 Jan 2002 17:15:15 -0600 (CST) to whomever it was that has a gift of seeing crispell and ibarra double bill, when I saw ibarra last april in minneapolis (aside: still looking for a recording of that show), it was a trio w/ jennifer choi on violin and the ubiquitous (and native minneapolean) craig taborn on keys. great music - i think i posted a mini-review on the list at the time. cheers, whit np - the beach boys, today! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 18 Jan 2002 15:55:10 -0800 (PST) I've been asked by the kind folks at xmission.com (hosts of the zorn-list for the last few years) if we would like to use the new mailing list software (Mailman) that they have installed. It appears that this new list software will make it much easier for y'all to subscribe, unsubscribe, go on vacation and browse the archives. Additionally, there are a bunch of benefits to ease list administration and bounce management (making my life much easier...theoretically). However, I'd like to solicit opinions on the change before making the move. The potential issues and areas I'd like comments on are: 1. Subscribers will only be able to sign up for regular OR digest emails, NOT BOTH. This affects 4 out of 700 subscribers, is this a problem for you folks? 2. Subscribing and unsubscribing will be done via a web broswer combined with an emailed confirmation. Is this okay? 3. Your subscription will be protected with a password, eliminating the possibility of malicious unsubscriptions (ohhhh, how mean!). The downside is you have another goddamn password in your life (though you can have Mailman email you the password if you forget it, and this is key, without my intervention!). 4. The new list archives will be available via the web rather than with the current clunky ftp interface. If we make the archives public, then web crawlers like google.com will index the archives making them searchable. If people don't want this, I can configure the list to have private archives which precludes the ability to search them easily. Comments? 5. Mailman MAY have problems if you are using Netscape Navigator 4.71 running on Linux. Is anyone using this email reader/OS combination? 6. Sadly, Mailman doesn't have the ability to strip out HTML from incoming messages (my dream feature!). If you'd like to see the web interface for other xmission mailing lists, go to http://mailman.xmission.com Click on the "Police" to see what their archives look like...they can be sorted by date, subject, thread, and author. Feel free to discuss this on the zorn-list or email me privately, whatever you are most comfortable with. thanks, mike rizzi top-wanker-for-the-zorn-list-wanker-list - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Coltrane Live In Seattle Date: 18 Jan 2002 21:03:40 -0600

right now i am listening to coltrane live in seattle.  i am not halfway through the first disc, but so far i am enjoying it immensely. 

  in Eric Nisenson's book on Coltrane: "Ascension" he says that in this period Coltrane was undergoing some major Stravinsky influence.  i can actually hear it on certain parts.  very interesting.  Nisenson says that coltrane had found in Stravinsky some quite universal melodies. 

  i must say the free period coltrane sounds nice in it's moments touched with stravinsky. 

  it's the opinion of nisenson and also a friend of mine that this concert is not a particularly strong one.  i was curious about other people's opinions.

   thanks,

      -samuel



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- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 18 Jan 2002 23:34:01 -0500 At 15:55 18/01/02 -0800, you wrote: >6. Sadly, Mailman doesn't have the ability > to strip out HTML from incoming messages > (my dream feature!). This SUCKS. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 19 Jan 2002 04:00:18 -0500 Sorry my previous wasn't exactly tactful, but it was spontaneous. I was choking on a pretzel while sending the message. I would like to elaborate a little bit, and throw in a couple of random ideas and considerations. First thing, I'm all for any change that makes the life of our moderator easier. Secondly, would the change finally allow to start the messages subject with "[zorn-list]", or something to that effect? - I do know that it is possible to set up filters in most email clients, to direct the incoming mail in various folders. I am on about 20,000 mailing-lists so I receive a lot of email every day. I don't always check my email from the same computer. Having a list-specific subject would somehow make it easier for me. About your remark that there is no way to strip html code from emails before they are distributed (in this current version of Mailman). There are many inconveniences to html email, as you know, especially as it is now virtually impossible to turn off completely that feature in most current email clients (eudora, etc, and I pity the forced users of microsoft outlook for whom it is even much worse). Anyway, html email means messages two to three times bigger in file size than plain text emails. It means also that images and pieces of code can be embedded in the message. (People will be able to start personalizing their emails with little flowers, hearts, images, ... music files, etc.) I would prefer not... The most obvious and recent example of the harmful effects of code embedded in emails is the infamous, bad, "badtrans" virus. A really quick search on the Mailman mailing-list reveals that this has been discussed before and that "third-party" solutions to remove MIME from the emails do exist. Please see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-December/016012.html >1. Subscribers will only be able to sign > up for regular OR digest emails, NOT BOTH. > This affects 4 out of 700 subscribers, > is this a problem for you folks? I am afraid of being one of the 4 geeks. It is not a problem not to be subscribed twice at the same email address. In fact I am on both lists for having been unsubbed by majordomo a few times these last months, and probably because some emails sent to me had bounced for some reason. Mailman might do a better job at handling that, I don't know. (Was / is it possible for someone to unsubscribe someone else without confirmation, in this present set up of majordomo?) The other points 2. to 5. are absolutely no problem either. I am assuming that the option for people not subscribed to the list to send emails to the list will be turned off... Last thing: the possibility of browsing the archives is priceless in my opinion, for the amount of added knowledge made available by that simple feature. - Though there obviously are "mail-to-HTML converters" scripts that work in conjunction with majordomo to do just that (keywords: Wilma, MHonArc, ...) Thank you Mike! Benjamin Np: Merzbow - Amlux (important records) At 15:55 18/01/02 -0800, you wrote: >I've been asked by the kind folks at xmission.com >(hosts of the zorn-list for the last few years) >if we would like to use the new mailing list >software (Mailman) that they have installed. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin Subject: Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!] Date: 19 Jan 2002 08:57:31 -0500 French director Jacques Rivette was one of the members of the French "New Wave." He's probably best known for the amazing 1974 film "Celine and Julie Go Boating," which is sort of a French new wave self-referential "Alice in Wonderland." More recently he made "La belle noiseuse," a film about creativity in a story about an artist and his model. Alan Lankin -- Jazzmatazz http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net lankina@att.net thomas chatterton wrote: > > > French director Jacques Rivette had an interesting reaction: > > It's worse than Kubrick with A Clockwork Orange > >> (1971), >> a film that I hate just as much, not for cinematic reasons but for moral >> ones. I remember when it came out, Jacques Demy was so shocked that it >> made >> him cry. Kubrick is a machine, a mutant, a Martian. He has no human >> feeling >> whatsoever. > > > Excuse MY ignorance but who the f**k is Jacques Rivette? Man, he's sure > out of it with that "assessment" of Kubrick. Clockwork Orange is > probably one of the most "moral" films ever made! > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: 'spontaneous performance' Date: 20 Jan 2002 01:01:12 +1100 Hello there, Recently I attended/participated in a 'spontaneous music' festival here in Sydney, and witnessed some interesting stuff to say the least. A question was raised for me by one of the artists - a relatively prominent local sax player, he turned up for a set he was playing armed with a bag of toys, chocolate bars, tape, masks, etc. During the performance, he threw bouncy balls at the other players, tried to tape the other players together, put a mask on one of the other players and himself, ate chocolate, threw chocolate, put it in another player's bell, attempted to do an artwork on another player's back, tried to wrap up the audience with brown paper, the list goes on... Now I know this isn't new, I've heard of players doing similar things, but I've never witnessed it before. So what I'm wondering is, is there a general thought on such practices throughout the improvising world? Are they frowned upon? Applauded? As far as this night went, one of the other players went along with it, the other got angry and walked off stage. The festival organiser was pretty angry too... So what do you people think? Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin Subject: Re: Satoko Fujii Date: 19 Jan 2002 09:03:06 -0500 She has a new disc coming out soon: Satoko Fujii with Mark Feldman - April Shower (Buzz) Feb 5 She'll be at the painted bride in philadelphia on April 27th on a double bill with the Cuong Ve Ensemble. Alan Lankin -- Jazzmatazz http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net lankina@att.net pedro moreno wrote: > FYI. > Satoko is bringing her Japanese Quartet with Tatsuya in late spring early summer. So far I know of dates in NYC, Philly (painted bride) Houston, Austin, and San Diego (spruce street forum).... > > I will post an itinerary when it is all confirmed > > She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville..... > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin Subject: Re: vibes Date: 19 Jan 2002 09:16:26 -0500 Walt Dickerson also has some excellent recordings on Steeplechase. He hasn't been too active lately, although I'm trying to encourage some presenters I know to give him a gig in Philadelphia. (He lives in the suburbs.) Someone mentioned another excellent Philadelphia vibist, Khan Jamal. I had the great pleasure of seeing his trio joined by Oliver Lake on Monday night for a great pair of sets on the U of Penn campus. It had very good attendance, too. (It didn't hurt that it was free.) As well as vibes, Khan played African baliphon, which made me think a bit of Chico Freeman's "Kings of Mali" disc from the 1970s. (And it's a crime that the disc hasn't been on CD yet.) Partly because of the instrumentation, a friend was reminded of Eric Dolphy & Bobby Hutcherson. Alan Lankin -- Jazzmatazz http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net lankina@att.net Skip Heller wrote: > is it me, or has walt dickerson escaped mention? his PATCH OF BLUE has a lot > going for it, incl Sun Ra in a rare turn as sideman. > > skip h > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: North Indian classical recommendations Date: 19 Jan 2002 06:28:10 -0600 Ian Fenton wrote: >Can anyone recommend any North Indian classical releases for me? > >I have been listening to a copy of Pandit Pran Nath's 'Ragas of Morning and >Night' for a few days now (and little else besides) but given the fact that >other music by this great singer is hard to come by, I don't know where to >try next. > >Can anyone on the list help? > >Ian Fenton I'm (very) partial to Hariprasad Chaurasia who plays bansuri (bamboo flute) (especially the ragas recorded for Nimbus) & Ali Akbar Khan who plays sarod (with lots of reissued older things coming out from a label called AMMP). Because you've been listening to Pandit Pran Nath, you may want to try some other Indian singing styles. I like the dhrupad recordings I've heard by the Dagar Brothers on the JVC Ethnic Sounds series. There's also an odd sort of folk music by (I think) an ethnic group usually referred to as the Bauls of Bengal. There was a very nice LP on Nonesuch years back as well as more recent recordings in the JVC series. Looking forward to seeing recommendations from other folks. Bests, Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, Texas 76147 USA 817 377-2983 herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stinkipipi@aol.com Subject: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 11:03:00 EST hello all, hoping you can give some opinions. i tend to use sony brand cd-rs for burning, as they seem to be good quality and i have no complaints. anyway, a lot of traders seem to request them as well. my question is, what other brands do you recommend, or not recommend? i get the sony spindles at a pretty good price at work, but consistantly see other name brands like maxwell and tdk for real cheap. it does make me suspicious though. thanks in advance. dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:38:05 EST In a message dated 01.19.02 11:04:04, Stinkipipi@aol.com writes: >hello all, >hoping you can give some opinions. i tend to use sony brand cd-rs for >burning, as they seem to be good quality and i have no complaints. anyway, >a lot of traders seem to request them as well. my question is, what other >brands do you recommend, or not recommend? i get the sony spindles at a >pretty good price at work, but consistantly see other name brands like >maxwell and tdk for real cheap. it does make me suspicious though. thanks >in advance. per spindle, i would probably purchase maxell seeing as they don't scratch as easily as the sony ones (different coating). for recording quality (i.e. the best CDs and the least coasters) a brand i have used almost exclusively to record my own stuff in the studio is Mitsui. i know you can buy them bulk in jewel cases (but no, i don't know where; somewhere on the web) but i don't think you can just buy a spindle of them. but it's about the same price, ca. $1.00 per. k8. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:48:15 EST the highest quality ones I've come across are Quantegys, although they can be difficult to find. I like TDKs also, but they seem to make different quality levels, and the cheap ones aren't so great. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 13:02:53 EST In a message dated 1/19/02 11:04:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, Stinkipipi@aol.com writes: << hoping you can give some opinions. i tend to use sony brand cd-rs for burning, as they seem to be good quality and i have no complaints. anyway, a lot of traders seem to request them as well. my question is, what other brands do you recommend, or not recommend? i get the sony spindles at a pretty good price at work, but consistantly see other name brands like maxwell and tdk for real cheap. it does make me suspicious though. thanks in advance. >> You might be surprised (or maybe not) to find out that many CD-Rs come from the same manufacturer, despite the logo on the flip side of the disk. I remember reading in the rec.music.media.cd-recordable newsgroup (I think that's the name) that at least one high-dollar CD-R had a generic non-branded equivalent that was a third the cost of the name brand. I've recently been picking up on closed-out RCA silver non-spindled 50-count packs at Wal-Mart for $9/box (regularly $25), and have had good success with them. I've also had good luck with those super-cheap PNY silver disks, which are pretty much panned by everyone... -- np: The Incredible Moses Leroy- Electric Pocket Radio =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 13:12:27 EST I also like the Mitsui silvers. I prefer the unbranded ones. For 80 minute CDrs, I like TDK's and Taiyo Yuden's. Actually, as long as i've stuck with name brand silver discs, i havent had any problems. I get mine from www.american-digital.com. Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: spontaneous composition Date: 19 Jan 2002 18:32:06 +0000     From: "Julian"     Recently I attended/participated in a 'spontaneous music' festival here in Sydney, and witnessed some interesting stuff to say the least. Now I know this isn't new, I've heard of players doing similar things, but I've never witnessed it before. So what I'm wondering is, is there a general thought on such practices throughout the improvising world? How was the music? _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 15:20:12 -0500 At 11:03 AM 1/19/02 EST, Stinkipipi@aol.com wrote: >hello all, > >hoping you can give some opinions. i tend to use sony brand cd-rs for >burning, as they seem to be good quality and i have no complaints. anyway, a >lot of traders seem to request them as well. my question is, what other >brands do you recommend, or not recommend? I've gotten a the SilverOnSilver ones from http://www.cdrecordable.com and have been consistently happy with them. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Check out cdr,cd-r,cdr media,blank cd,cd media Date: 19 Jan 2002 15:29:59 EST --part1_10.188ba470.297b3147_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This place has always had a good variety at resonable prices. Click here: cdr,cd-r,cdr media,blank cd,cd media Cheers, Tom --part1_10.188ba470.297b3147_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This place has always had a good variety at resonable prices.

Click here: cdr,cd-r,cdr media,blank cd,cd media

Cheers,
Tom --part1_10.188ba470.297b3147_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: 'spontaneous performance' Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:42:56 -0800 (PST) >Now I know this isn't new, I've heard of players >doing >similar things, but >I've never witnessed it before. So what I'm wondering >is, is there a general >thought on such practices throughout the improvising >world? Are they frowned >upon? Applauded? As far as this night went, one of >the >other players went >along with it, the other got angry and walked off >stage. The festival >organiser was pretty angry too... So what do you >people think? Well, screw what the hell WE think- did you like it? It seems like you're worried that you might have enjoyed something that people here could regard as corny or blasphemous or something. Opinions on this are fine but you appear to be asking whether or not you should look down upon it, and decide from other people who probably didn't see the show you saw if you should like it. ---Ryan Novak __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kurt Gottschalk" Subject: sex mob prince remixes/rare zorn auction Date: 19 Jan 2002 23:03:30 +0000 hi -- sorry for the commercial nature... i'm going to be purging my collection (a little) to raise money for a concert i'm putting on in april. not that i think i'll really cover the costs this way, but... there is a promo-only 3-song cd on kfr up on ebay; 'sign o the times' plus 2 otherwise unreleased remixes (one by liminal). item #1503537314. i also have 2 copies of the very rare double-cd rubaiyat, which was released for elektra's 40th anniversary. it features the 80s roster of artists doing old songs from the label's catalogue. gipsy king's 'hotel california' is great, but there's also kronos quartet doing television's 'marquee moon', ambitious lovers (arto) doing 'a little bit of rain', bill frisell/robin holcombe/wayne horvitz doing dylan's 'going going gone' and, of the most interest here, zorn/eye/quine/laswell/epstein doing the stooges' 'tv eye.' it's a nice set with a 50-page book and tracks that have not been released anywhere else. i've seen this marked at $60-70 in the stores. i'll be putting one copy up on ebay in the coming days. the other one i'll offer first here, silent auction style. $US, and for you nice folks here, i'll even pay postage (well, domestic anyway, sorry). email me privately with questions or offers. sorry if i've offended anyone. and plan to be in new york april 12 for a uneek concert experience. kg _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "&c." Subject: RE: Threadgill Date: 19 Jan 2002 18:40:17 -0500 The guy who recommended me to this particular VVCircus album was the kind of person who has almost every album by artists he enjoys, so it was very hard for him to give me a definite starting place for a musician. This one happened to be an album that he hasn't tired of and I assume one of his favorite Threadgill albums, if not overall favorite. Even still, he was an invaluable resource in discovering new artists. He turned me on to Tim Berne and Ken Vandermark, though he had a really hard time recommending a good starting place for Berne. I definitely will check out the recommendations made on the list about Threadgill's more "accessible" work. Zach - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 15:47:29 -0800 Fuji and TDK work best for me. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kasra George Ahmadi Subject: Charlie Mariano Date: 19 Jan 2002 19:22:46 -0600 After the sparce discussion on North Indian Classical, I wanted to raise a question regarding Charlie Mariano. I have a dubbed tape of him on tenor saxophone with a woman on vocals as well a percussionist. Somebody told me that this recording was done at Tulane University. It could have been done with a microcassette for all I know. But does anyone have any information on this and whether they could make some recs to follow-up this issue. kasra - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: 'spontaneous performance' Date: 20 Jan 2002 12:24:42 +1100 > Well, screw what the hell WE think- did you like it? > It seems like you're worried that you might have > enjoyed something that people here could regard as > corny or blasphemous or something. Opinions on this > are fine but you appear to be asking whether or not > you should look down upon it, and decide from other > people who probably didn't see the show you saw if you > should like it. No, I liked it, nothing can change that. Believe it or not I don't think you guys are the gods of free jazz : ) But you do get to see more of it over there in America and Europe than in Australia so I just thought I'd check out whether you'd seen much stuff like this, whether it had been discussed before, whether there were any opinions on this kind of thing, etc. I guess I figured that the festival organiser would like something like this to spice things up a bit after all the squeaking saxes and whatnot, but he was just plain angry. I discussed it with a friend who was also there, and our opinions differed slightly, so I came here for some more input. By the way, the point my friend most reacted to was 'invading another person's space' (ie drawing on another player's back, throwing things at other players, etc). I told him that interaction with other players is what free jazz is all about! : ) Oh and yes, the music was pretty good. The other players were generally doing loud squawking effects but when this guy got his sax in his mouth it became something quite beautiful. Julian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RadioGong@aol.com Subject: Re: cd-r brand help Date: 19 Jan 2002 20:36:55 EST Stay away from discs manufactured in Taiwan. They are very low quality. Remember that a good brand cdr is not based on burnability, but how long a disc will last. I've found Mitsui, Fuji, and Sony's made in Japan the best. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Charlie Mariano Date: 20 Jan 2002 02:51:16 +0000 >From: Kasra George Ahmadi >After the sparce discussion on North Indian Classical, I wanted to raise a >question regarding Charlie Mariano...but does anyone have any information >on >this and whether they could make some recs to follow-up this issue. There are a couple of recordings Mariano has done (that I'm aware of, maybe there's more) with Indian musicians, one called Jyothi that came out on ECM, the other's called Bangalore on the Intuition label. I quite liked the former one, which features the Karnataka School of Percussion and a woman singer (perhaps the same one at the concert) named R. A. Ramamani; the other I've never heard. Mariano is one of the few western jazz players who can convincingly "cross over" into other musical cultures, I also liked his playing with Rabih Abou-Khalil and Krautrock ethnoforgers Embryo. There is also a disc from the Karnataka called River Yamuna on the Music Of the World label that I think has Mariano as a guest, sorry I can't check it right now, haven't listened to it in a while. np: Satoko Fujii/Mark Feldman April Shower _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Adam Rock" Subject: Frith/ Kaiser - "With Friends Like These" Date: 20 Jan 2002 15:48:35 +1100 Frith and Kaiser's CD "With Friends Like These" is currently available at one of my local recording stores (how very strange!!!!). What is this CD like? Does anyone have any feelings as to whether or not it is a worthwhile investment? Regards, Adam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Frith/ Kaiser - "With Friends Like These" Date: 19 Jan 2002 22:57:40 -0800 Adam Rock wrote: >=20 > Frith and Kaiser's CD "With Friends Like These" is currently available = at > one of my local recording stores (how very strange!!!!). What is this C= D > like? Does anyone have any feelings as to whether or not it is a worthw= hile > investment? If I'm not mistaken, the CD includes reissues both duo albums, _With Frie= nds Like These_ from the late 70s and _Who Needs Enemies_ from 7 or 8 years l= ater ... The first album is "classic" tabletop/extended tech tweakage by two (= at the time) leading exponents of the style; it includes some very fine work, I'= d rate it at the same level as Frith's _Live in Japan_ lps, for example. The sec= ond album is a bit straighter, with more conventional playing. It dates from = the time of Kaiser's infatuation with the LinnDrum and includes lots of odd s= amples and odder rhythms. I'm particularly fond of a reasonably straight take of "Killing Floor Blues" dropped into the middle of the record. Overall, yea= h, "worthwhile" is a reasonable description. --=20 - Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.co= m "For children are innocent and love justice; while most=20 of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: Blue =D6yster Cult, _s/t_ nr: James Elkins, _Why Art Cannot Be Taught_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ryan Novak Subject: Re: 'spontaneous performance' Date: 19 Jan 2002 23:18:46 -0800 (PST) > No, I liked it, nothing can change that. Believe it > or not I don't think you > guys are the gods of free jazz : ) But you do get to > see more of it over > there in America and Europe than in Australia so I > just thought I'd check > out whether you'd seen much stuff like this, whether > it had been discussed > before, whether there were any opinions on this kind > of thing, etc. Okay, cool, now I feel much better about giving an opinion. Well, I think it sounds like I might have enjoyed it. In a lot of cases freejazzers/improvisers demand a lot of space for their ideas to develop and I often find it more interesting when they don't get it and have to truly improvise and work with what happens in a less comfortable situation. There ARE definitely some expectations of how some improvised music performances will go no matter how free the context, and I think it's great (essential!) when someone challenges them, subtly or not. Since the players in that show don't seem to have had much warning that this guy would do that kind of thing, it makes it a little more prankish, but I find that amusing too. And it's hilarious that the festival organizer got so upset about it- I love music, but if you treat it so preciously, it just becomes more conservative garbage. Anyway, certainly no free-jazz god here. :~) Sounds like a pretty interesting show to me though. ---Ryan Novak __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: continuation of spontaneous composition / performance. Date: 20 Jan 2002 03:49:27 EST In a message dated 01.19.02 15:44:06, ryan_novak@yahoo.com writes: > >Well, screw what the hell WE think- did you like it? >It seems like you're worried that you might have >enjoyed something that people here could regard as >corny or blasphemous or something. Opinions on this >are fine but you appear to be asking whether or not >you should look down upon it, and decide from other >people who probably didn't see the show you saw if you >should like it. i'd kind of have to say in a respect i agree with ryan here. if you're questioning its validity as a compositional idiom/tool/whatever, then there are varying opinions - if you're going in highly academic circles (think milton babbitt here) clearly spontaneous composition is not even an option (thereby nonexistent) because of the preplanned nature of such writing. however, spontaneous composition - which i hesitate to call 'improv', because i think they are two different things - is widely considered in small new music chamber groups to be something that is not only possible, but very productive, interesting, and generally, just cool. i was in a performance group / chamber ensemble called ensemble:rocketchrist for a few years, and we would occasionally do these 'spontaneous compositions' - my friend/ex-boyfriend vincent calianno would write a sketch of kind of where we wanted to be going maybe key-wise or something and a group of unspecified musicians would drop in and out and play or not play or sing or not sing or just listen or move or whatever. and we're not talking hippie style jam shit here, we're talking honest-to-goodness real music making. one of these spontaneous compositions, which happened on st. patricks day of 1999, seriously changed the way that i think about, listen to, and write music. there was an improvisation going on which was formulated around a very basic descending scale -- C-Bb-G-F-D-C-Bb-C-A where everything is descending except the C rising back from the Bb in the last section. i started improvising lyrics over this - i am fall-ing float-ing in-to space and it turned into an actual formulation for a really beautiful free performance piece which i've done several times and had several very different - and equally interesting (if not so effective ;) performances. i guess my point is this: in certain academic circles, 'spontaneous composition' is not even really an option. however, i strongly believe that it exists, is independent of improvisation due to some sort of mutual understanding or mutual agreement, spoken or unspoken, of structure, (yes, i know that improv has structure, but it's of a different *kind*), and that it is a viable means of communication musically and can easily lead to more solid compositions. in conclusion, i dig it. k8. incidentally, i was told by my composition teacher that john zorn has been asked and agreed to do a concert at webster university, his alma mater, several years in a row. however, his stipulation is to hold the concert in the recital hall, which seats definitely under 100 people. the administration is so bent out of shape about their potential crowd-control issue that they've nixed the idea until he'll agree to play a larger venue on campus, which he flatly refuses. i give jz mad props for not compromising since the recital hall is a pretty cool space, and want to beat the administration because if they are going to pay him for a residency of sorts anyway, why don't they make him play two gigs in the recital hall and give a master class or something, in lieu of one big concert where it will not be intimate? grr. k. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 20 Jan 2002 03:54:15 EST In a message dated 01.20.02 02:22:11, ryan_novak@yahoo.com writes: >Anyway, certainly no free-jazz god here. :~) Sounds >like a pretty interesting show to me though. right so, can i just throw out here that i hate the term 'free jazz'...? i think that it not only defines virtually nothing, but is a really pretentious term and describes something which is just what it is - improvised sound, improvised noise, improvised extended technique, some of which works, some of which doesn't. i don't necessarily think it is jazz... i'm no expert, and especially not an expert of jazz of any sort, but this term has bugged me since the first time i heard it. not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of aimless noisemaking and stuff as art... my $.02. love, k8. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Non-JZ SALE: AUTO'd Tortoise, Nobukazu Takemura Date: 20 Jan 2002 09:29:33 -0500 A few more items Zorn folks may be interested in: ** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas) If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER. $ 9 -- Nobukazu Takemura - "Scope" US CD (Thrill Jockey) 1999 [Material from 1996 - 1998. Melodic drones, hypnotic homages to Oval and Reich, off-kilter glitchscapes. Feat. Aki Tsuyuko.] $16 -- Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7" (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993 [2nd pressing on clear vinyl of this early single. In poster sleeve. mint/mint. Deleted.] $35 -- Tortoise - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996 [Inside sleeve AUTOGRAPHED in silver by Bitney, McEntire, Herndon, McCombs & Pajo (not personalized). 9 tracks; 3 bonus cuts: "Gamera", "Goriri" & "Restless Waters". Mint/new with papers & obi.] -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Arthur Subject: US jazz greats plan concert in local Hell Date: 20 Jan 2002 07:01:30 -0800 (PST) Hi, This is my first post to the list. I thought this link would be of interest to fans of Masada and others. http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/01/20/LatestNews/LatestNews.41962.html I found it to be interesting. Thanks, Stephen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Frith/ Kaiser - "With Friends Like These" Date: 20 Jan 2002 17:29:00 +0100 Adam Rock wrote: > > Frith and Kaiser's CD "With Friends Like These" is currently available at > one of my local recording stores (how very strange!!!!). What is this CD > like? Does anyone have any feelings as to whether or not it is a worthwhile > investment? Hi, Jim Flannery's description is very well put, but beware which edition you buy: the latest, the 2-cd 'Freinds and Enemies' from Cuneiform is the complete re-issue of the lp's, plus unreleased 1999 duo performances, and some live recordings from the eighties. The older one, the single SST cd, can be seen as a 'best of', with stuff from the two albums, and the 1980's live stuff. The fantastic 'fairly straight' blues rendition is on both. If you think you will like all of the music, wait for the double cd. Regards, Remco Takken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: More Victoriaville Date: 20 Jan 2002 17:09:14 +0000 Hey guys! I just remembered another band from the Victoriaville program this year: Melt Banana. Another incredible live band. So far everything looks excellent, and my bet is it will be another wonderful festival. Is there an official homepage for the festival?? Peace. NP: Han Bennink/Dave Douglas: "Serpentine" NR: http://www.transnational.org/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: New Dave Douglas album Date: 20 Jan 2002 17:11:35 +0000 Hello. Any comments on the new Dave Douglas CD with Misha Mengelberg and Han Bennink? Somebody mentioned that it was on a new CD format or something like that, but what about the music?? The lineup looks superb. Cheers! NP: still "Serpentine" NR: still http://www.transnational.org/ _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Jacques Rivett [was:Hal Hartley!] Date: 20 Jan 2002 10:27:57 -0800 >>>More recently he made "La belle noiseuse," a film about creativity in a story about an artist and his model.<<< Regardless of this director's lame commentary on Kubrick, this film is in the comatosity-as-transcendence pantheon. 4 hours of Byrne-esque heaven. I find "La belle noiseuse" riveting the way Abbey finds the near silence at the end of an AMM concert so. Long stretches of graphite scratching, bristle stroking, model sitting. And a twist ending that will leave all of you action-adventure-speed-metal-noise freaks breathless. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 20 Jan 2002 10:35:42 -0800 >>>not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of aimless noisemaking and stuff as art...<<< Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me off it's that Ornette Coleman. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Kaiser/Kuryokhin (was: Frith/ Kaiser) Date: 20 Jan 2002 13:55:26 EST Though Frith is likely this thread's "spotlight", the mention of Kaiser prompted me to pull out an early collaboration between him and Sergey Kuryokhin on Ryko, titled _Popular Science_ . "Goofy" is the first word that comes to mind while listening to this one. It seems like the musicians rarely "click" together, but have a really fun time in trying. Now that I've brought up Kuryokhin, has anyone heard the David Moss/Kuryokhin title _Two For Tea_? I'm fixing to order Vol. 2 of _Golden Years of the New Soviet Jazz_ from Leo Records mailorder and notice he's now carrying the Long Arms label on which this title is imprinted. Mr. Feigin states in his mailer "I bet you have not heard anything like this before." That alone is enough to pique interest here. -- =dg= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 20 Jan 2002 12:05:18 -0800 >>>> not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be > a good way for pretentious college students to pass off hours of > aimless > noisemaking and stuff as art...<<< > > Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me > off it's that Ornette Coleman. > I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor what the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 20 Jan 2002 15:08:19 EST In a message dated 1/20/02 3:03:19 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor what the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). >> wow, that's rough. you really enjoy dropping these bombs and seeing if anyone reacts, huh? I was surprised no one said anything about your Ayler statement earlier in the week. anyway, much as I think Cecil Taylor is a genius, and much as I think Ornette's post-1970 output is thoroughly overrated, the brilliance of Ornette's quartet work on Atlantic can't be overstated. I'd probably rather have the Beauty is A Rare Thing box set in my collection than any of my fifty or so Cecil CDs. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: Threadgill Date: 20 Jan 2002 16:09:04 EST Among many other things, what I like about Threadgill is his instrumentation. Take the new Zooid album (which I finally got yesterday): alto/flue, acoustic guitar, oud, tuba, cello, and drums. Certainly not your typical lineup. Tuba and cello in place of bass has always held a certain appeal to me (Arthur Blythe has used similar instrumentation). In Threadgill's band Make a Move, he's had both an accordian or vibes in place of a piano, while Very Very Circus had two tubas, two guitarists, and a french horn (replaced by trombone on 'Spirit of Nuff...Nuff'). As much as I love Air, Threadgill was clearly limited by the trio format, IMO. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two current bands (both quintets) are possibly the smallest formations he's had since Air. His solo work as been much more layered than Air, warranting many repeated listenings. With Threadgill, I often discover something new in his music each time I hear it. jeff caltabiano n.p. kamikaze ground crew: madame marie's temple of knowledge (1993, new world) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RKwityn@aol.com Subject: Re: Charlie Mariano Date: 20 Jan 2002 16:09:59 EST Whats up all?......Charlie Mariano is a remarkably gifted musician!!!!!....If anybody is interested in learning about South Indian Music, Mariano wrote a book called "An Introduction to South Indian Music" and it can be found at : http://www.upbeat.com/caris Caris Music....has a whole bunch of killer books that talk about chromatic playing, modal composing, ear training, and some Dave Liebman transcriptions......Kasra, would you like to set something up, if I send you a tape could you make me a copy of your tape???.....Peace in Space, -Ed - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 20 Jan 2002 14:04:27 -0800 > > In a message dated 1/20/02 3:03:19 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > > << I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor > what > the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). >> > > wow, that's rough. you really enjoy dropping these bombs and seeing if anyone > reacts, huh? I was surprised no one said anything about your Ayler statement > earlier in the week. I wasn't dismissive of Ayler. I just said I don't hear anything there but other people do. > > anyway, much as I think Cecil Taylor is a genius, and much as I think > Ornette's post-1970 output is thoroughly overrated, the brilliance of > Ornette's quartet work on Atlantic can't be overstated. I'd probably rather > have the Beauty is A Rare Thing box set in my collection than any of my fifty > or so Cecil CDs. Cecil and Paul Bley rocked my world. And that Cecil group with Lacy is, I think about as good as it gets. As for my dropping bombs, I would assume it's far more incendiary to be an Ornette fan than not one in most parts. Also, I think there's a lot to be said for the kid who accuses the emperor of being naked, no matter what everybody else says. My opinion of Ornette came to be when I would listen to the Atlantic stuff and wonder why, if he's such a great saxophone guy, then why is he so slopppy in the ensembles. Then, I heard the Old & new Dreams albums, heard the stuff played cleaner, and realized that the band there was absolutely killing the music, and I realized the main reason I never liked those Atlantic records was because the saxophone player sounded bad to me. as ever -- skip h np: Paul Bley -- Footloose - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Threadgill Date: 20 Jan 2002 17:06:25 EST In a message dated 1/20/02 4:10:00 PM, Jeffcalt@aol.com writes: << As much as I love Air, Threadgill was clearly limited by the trio format, IMO. >> limited compositionally, obviously, but on the other hand, he had a chance to play a lot more himself, which I miss in many of his later projects. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 22:35:13 >>>>not to mention that "free jazz" seems to be a good way for >pretentious >>>>college students to pass off hours of aimless >noisemaking and stuff as art...<<< >Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me >off it's that Ornette Coleman. well, i am pretty sure that she was not referring to ornette, but saying that using the term "free jazz" is sometimes a way for people to pass off lame, boring music. although, based on my experiences, i would substitute, like, college radio djs and pretentious indie rockers for frat boys. but, the term "spontaneous composition" is often used in the same way these days, and is probably even more obnoxious because it's just an overlong and snobby way to say you're improvising. i hate seeing that term in liner notes ... >I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil >Taylor >what the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). I have to (gasp!) agree with Jon Abbey here. I love CT's music, and I am not a big fan of most of Ornette's post-60s stuff that I have heard, but I love the Golden Circle CDs and the Atlantic stuff, and not because it is radical. (To me it sounds very down-to-earth.) So what if the heads are sloppy -- I love those tunes and still (try to) sing along with his solos on "Ramblin'" and "Una Muy Bonita" and a whole bunch of others every time I listen to them. Also, do you think Old and New Dreams would have even existed if those musicians at least did not have some high opinion of him and/or his music? Will (who just switched from non-capitalized e-mail writing to proper English in this post, for whatever reason...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 15:02:33 -0800 > > I have to (gasp!) agree with Jon Abbey here. I love CT's music, and I am not > a big fan of most of Ornette's post-60s stuff that I have heard, but I love > the Golden Circle CDs and the Atlantic stuff, and not because it is radical. > (To me it sounds very down-to-earth.) So what if the heads are sloppy -- I > love those tunes and still (try to) sing along with his solos on "Ramblin'" > and "Una Muy Bonita" and a whole bunch of others every time I listen to > them. Also, do you think Old and New Dreams would have even existed if those > musicians at least did not have some high opinion of him and/or his music? Honestly, I think they would have. I think those guys were meant to take a certain path and they would have found each other. I feel that way about any organization that works well together. Call it metaphysical. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 00:01:51 >Also, do you think Old and New Dreams would have even existed if >those >musicians at least did not have some high opinion of him and/or >his music? >Honestly, I think they would have. I think those guys were meant to >take >a certain path and they would have found each other. I feel >that way >about any organization that works well together. Call it >metaphysical. Well, let me try again. Do you think that so much of OaND's recorded output (roughly 40%) would have been Ornette tunes if they [cut-and_ paste here] did not have some high opinion of him and/or his music? Also, just looking back through the _Beauty_ box set, it's interesting to see all the people who speak highly of him: Gil Evans, Herbie Hancock, Paul Bley, Shelly Manne, Joe Henderson, Jackie McLean, etc., in addition to the quartet members. Not that their opinions change my gut reaction to OC's music, it just goes to show you (again): People just hear things differently! That said, my favorite quote in there is from Monk: "Man, that cat is nuts!" At least I'm not on rec-music.bluenote anymore. (I was for about two weeks a few years ago.) These types of debates went on so consistently there, and with such less civility and general "intelligence" than on this list, that it was flat-out depressing...worse than the Mr. Bungle list, even! Aeieee!!! WY _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Free Jazz & Ornette Ellwood Date: 21 Jan 2002 00:09:46 +0000     From: Skip Heller If there's any frat boy who pisses me     > off it's that Ornette Coleman. > I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor what the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). Hmm, well I 'd have to say that the best concert I've ever experienced hands down would be Ornette with the original Prime Time band live at the Opera House in Seattle sometime in the early '80s (I've seen Cecil play 3 times). Or really it should be the Prime Time bands, because the concept was to have two trios (guitar, bass, drums) playing interlocking grooves, also combining as a sextet, with Ornette playing over top. So wrap your head around that sound, 2 guitarists (Bern Nix, Charles Ellerbee), 2 bassists (Tacuma, Al MacDowell), 2 drummers (Calvin Weston, Denardo) all soloing simultaneously, yet wrapping their complementary styles around each other, while Ornette soared above, holding it all together. And if ever there was a band out on the edge, on the verge of falling apart, this was it - in fact when I caught the same group a couple of years later, they were falling apart more keeping it together, mainly due to a bad mix (you can imagine trying to mix that group). But the first time they flew, and it was the aural equivalent of being in an open cockpit of a 747 during takeoff. It's too bad there's no live stuff from this band available. Still, I can see why Ornette keeps getting dissed, like someone else mentioned, he's a bit of a trickster, and his playing is decidedly uneven. Still, if Cecil Taylor laid the foundation for the '60s free revolution it was Ornette's quartet that took it to the front lines... _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: kings of mali/ khan jamal Date: 20 Jan 2002 19:09:51 EST << Someone mentioned another excellent Philadelphia vibist, Khan Jamal >> ----hi alan, that was me. the new roy campbell on thirsty ear 'its krunch time' features khan jamal, perhaps even more than it does roy himself. i like it. doe anyone know why when india navig reissued nearly all its vinyl in expanded cd editions, the kingds of mali, the one i never did get on vinyl, never made it to silver? thanks steve koenig n.p.: copenhagen sax qt/ 6 danish composers/ classico-olufsen via qualiton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: beware cdr faux-brands Date: 20 Jan 2002 19:13:25 EST << name brands like maxwell and tdk >> funny you should say this, as just like with cassettes and batteries, beware deliberate imitations such as maxWell, not maxell, and durOcell instead of durAcell, TOK/TDK, etc. love to all steve koenig martin luther king spirit day/ n.p.: max roach/ it's time n.p.: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 16:19:05 -0800 > > Well, let me try again. Do you think that so much of OaND's recorded output > (roughly 40%) would have been Ornette tunes if they [cut-and_ paste here] > did not have some high opinion of him and/or his music? Doesn't matter one whit to me. I honestly don't think about that stuff. > Also, just looking back through the _Beauty_ box set, it's interesting to > see all the people who speak highly of him: Gil Evans, Herbie Hancock, Paul > Bley, Shelly Manne, Joe Henderson, Jackie McLean, etc., in addition to the > quartet members. Not that their opinions change my gut reaction to OC's > music, it just goes to show you (again): People just hear things > differently! Yeah, I hear it as sloppy and out of tune. A lot of people speak highly of a great many things I find objectionable. There are people who think Archie Schepp is better than Howlin' Wolf. I find that objectionable. And, my conclusions re Ornette are not at all favorable towards him. As for his importance to a period in time, I think -- and in fact I am sure -- his greatest contribution was to take an aggressive step where people could and would hear about it. Probably the best quote on Ornette came fr Big Jay McNeely, qho Ornette claimed as an influence on his own playing: "You'd've thought I could have influenced him to play in tune." skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Ornette/CT Date: 20 Jan 2002 19:27:26 -0500 (EST) William/Skip et. al: I'm sort of in the middle here. I think (and I've said before on this list) that Cecil is the most important jazz musician of the later half of the 20th century. I give him these kudos for going his own way and been the person who created the rapprochement between North American and European improvisers, without casting either as subordinate to the other. It has been 20 years between the first time I see him play and when I saw him for three night in NYC a couple of years ago. I could see no lessening in his talents or ability to mesmerize a room. Ornette is different. I think his Atlantic and Blue Note sessions were the most important expression of post-bop to come along. Listen to those weirdly-titled discs like Change of the Century -- the rhythm section could back up any bebopper. That said, I have to admit that OC's electric experiments have less than impressed me. And yes, I did see him live. I've made a point of listening to as much Ornette as I can and getting his discs, including the "piano" sessions with Geri Allen etc. and IMHO he sounds like any other older mainstream musician. He's playing well, but the innovation has gone. So cast my vote for the early Ornette and Cecil's lifetime. Ken Waxman --- William York wrote: > >Also, do you think Old and New Dreams would have > even existed if >those > >musicians at least did not have some high opinion > of him and/or >his music? > > >Honestly, I think they would have. I think those > guys were meant to >take > >a certain path and they would have found each > other. I feel >that way > >about any organization that works well together. > Call it >metaphysical. > ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________ Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Ornette/CT -grammer-typos Date: 20 Jan 2002 19:31:45 -0500 (EST) And please excuse all those written-in-haste typos which made some of what I said sound like it was coming from even more of an illiterate than I am. kw --- Ken Waxman wrote: > William/Skip et. al: > > I'm sort of in the middle here. I think (and I've ===== Ken Waxman mingusaum@yahoo.ca www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William York" Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 01:20:01 >People just hear things differently! >Yeah, I hear it as sloppy and out of tune. Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than most stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again, a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy (Chadbourne, a lot of stuff on Bulb and Load and Amarillo, etc.), while the other half is considered too technical or complex (Cecil Taylor, most metal, etc.). So, whatever. >Probably the best quote on Ornette came fr Big Jay McNeely, qho >Ornette >claimed as an influence on his own playing: >"You'd've thought I could have influenced him to play in tune." Well, apparently he didn't, big deal. xoxo, Will (done with this silly argument for fear of sounding like a rec.music.bluenoter !!!) _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 17:25:19 -0800 > > Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and > out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than most > stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. actually, the only guy who sounds bad to me in there is ornette. i think cherry was/is the spark that moved that band. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 20:32:07 EST --part1_164.7736691.297cc997_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/02 8:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, william_york@hotmail.com writes: > Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and > out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than > most > stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again, > > a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy I have to agree with this...otherwise, Kenny G would be some kind of ideal? Dale. --part1_164.7736691.297cc997_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/02 8:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, william_york@hotmail.com writes:


Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and
out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than most
stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again,
a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy


I have to agree with this...otherwise, Kenny G would be some kind of ideal?

Dale.
 --part1_164.7736691.297cc997_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 20:49:39 -0500 on 1/20/02 7:19 PM, Skip Heller at velaires@earthlink.net wrote: > > Yeah, I hear it as sloppy and out of tune. I have always thought that this is part of Ornette's charm. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 21:00:21 -0500 on 02.01.20 8:49 PM, Mike Chamberlain at mikec@rocler.qc.ca wrote: > on 1/20/02 7:19 PM, Skip Heller at velaires@earthlink.net wrote: > > >> >> Yeah, I hear it as sloppy and out of tune. > > I have always thought that this is part of Ornette's charm. Yeah-- but "out of tune" implies that you can't hear the in-betweeners, doesn't it? He doesn't sound "out of tune"-- he sounds much more colorful than in-tune allows one to be. Looser, more free, more alive, more organic, more enabled, more expressive, more MORE. What the hell's been going on while I was away... RL ---------- *** Many THINGS 4 SALE *** [Updated: 01.12.01] http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag-- ETC., - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 22:42:51 -0500 on 1/20/02 9:00 PM, Rick Lopez at bb10k@velocity.net wrote: The ever eloquent Senor Lopez comes to the rescue. > > Yeah-- but "out of tune" implies that you can't hear the in-betweeners, > doesn't it? Well, in tune doesn't matter to Ornette at all, AFAICT. I don't think it's very productive to judge him against "normal" standards of intonation. The only thing I care about any music is if it does something for me emotionally, and at least the early Ornette does, very, very much. > He doesn't sound "out of tune"-- he sounds much more colorful > than in-tune allows one to be. Looser, more free, more alive, more organic, > more enabled, more expressive, more MORE. Uhhh, yeah. > > What the hell's been going on while I was away... As they say in baseball, you can look it up. --Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 20 Jan 2002 20:35:17 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3094403717_12730251_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/02 8:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, william_york@hotmail.com writes: Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than most stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again, a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy I have to agree with this...otherwise, Kenny G would be some kind of ideal? Dale. He is some kind of ideal. He is the posterboy for sterility. skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3094403717_12730251_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Ornette

In a message dated 1/20/02 8:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, william_york@h= otmail.com writes:


Well, fuck it, = so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and
out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than mos= t
stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again,=
a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy


I have to agree with this...otherwise, Kenny G would be some kind of ideal?=

Dale.


He is some kind of ideal.  He is the posterboy for sterility.

skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3094403717_12730251_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 20 Jan 2002 20:41:50 -0800 I now see the error of my ways. Oh, I didn't know they were quarter-tones. I also never realized that bad execution was the sign of true soulfulness. You have enlightened me, and everything I know is wrong. I will no longer prize skill, for Ornette Coleman is beyond such pedestrian considerations. I will, in fact, learn to prize all poorly executed music at the expense of the Cannonball Adderley's of this world. Ayler is a god. I cannot know this personally, for my rhythm'n'blues value system is no match for any academic wits. Free jazz is, by its definition, cliche-free and greater than hard bop. Rahsaan Roland Kirk was misguided after all. thank you for delivering me from my delusions -- skip h np: Best of Hank Crawford - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren Subject: re: CD-R quality Date: 20 Jan 2002 23:54:40 -0500 (EST) With respect to the recent discussion of that perennial favourite topic, the "quality" of various brands of CD-Rs, I'll finally confess to being a bit puzzled: what are y'all basing your choices on? I've only used a couple of different brands in my life, and while I've never produced an actual coaster, I also couldn't attribute any of the little problems that have surfaced here and there (minute glitches that didn't turn up in the source signal and which aren't reproduced in predictable places in subsequent burns, etc.) to either a particular brand or to the burners that I've been using. Any suggestions (or hints on other places that would be worth checking out)? -me ______________________________________________________________________ Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: CD-R quality Date: 20 Jan 2002 21:14:26 -0800 > > With respect to the recent discussion of that perennial favourite > topic, the "quality" of various brands of CD-Rs, I'll finally confess > to being a bit puzzled: what are y'all basing your choices on? I've > only used a couple of different brands in my life, and while I've > never produced an actual coaster, I also couldn't attribute any of > the little problems that have surfaced here and there (minute > glitches that didn't turn up in the source signal and which aren't > reproduced in predictable places in subsequent burns, etc.) to either > a particular brand or to the burners that I've been using. Any > suggestions (or hints on other places that would be worth checking > out)? > My rating system, which ain't scientific, is based on entriely how many coasters use of any one brand has resulted in. Fuji has come in as the all-time most successful and glitch-free brand, followed closely by TDK (the gold ones). I am talking audio Cd-Rs here, BTW. When burning on the computer, I've found that no one company leads the league particularly. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 20 Jan 2002 21:39:17 -0800 Skip Heller wrote: > > You have enlightened me, and everything I know is wrong. So. Skip. Back in grade school when I was practicing my Hanon, nobody really had much to say to be about intonation obviously, but it was really important to play on that beat. When I listen to be-bop, it seems like nobody's on the beat at all ... these guys are up front, this one's dragging it intermittently ... can't they play in time? What? They're "swinging"? Oh yeah, heard of that. So what I'm wondering is, why is it ok to "swing" that beat so outrageously, but a mortal sin to "swing" that intonation? -- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: Alva, _Fair-Haired Guillotine_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: New Dave Douglas album Date: 21 Jan 2002 01:10:47 -0500 Haven't heard the CD, but the New York gigs were wonderful. Mengelberg's early post-bop compositions start at Monk and take a sharp left, and Dave and Han play off each other extraordinarily well, as you already know from 'Serpentine.' Brad Jones was a sensitive and responsive accompanist and the glue that held these extremely fractious elements together. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Dewey Redman, "Lop-o-Lop," 'Tarik' (Actuel/Fuel 2000) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Gadney Any comments on the new Dave Douglas CD with Misha Mengelberg and Han Bennink? Somebody mentioned that it was on a new CD format or something like that, but what about the music?? The lineup looks superb. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 06:20:43 +0000 >From: Skip Heller >Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) > > > Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me > > off it's that Ornette Coleman. > > >I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor >what >the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). Oh give me a break. What on earth would you be drinking to make you come up with that analogy? Stick to extolling your favorites, Skip. It's what you're best at. This kind of stuff just leads to unnecessary flatulence. This from a man who warns us all about dissing on Grover Washington. I'm an old Philly boy myself and Grover didn't sound any better when I was there. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 01:25:50 EST In a message dated 01.21.02 01:21:24, bashline@hotmail.com writes: >This kind of stuff just leads to unnecessary flatulence. >This from a man who warns us all about dissing on Grover Washington. I'm >an old Philly boy myself and Grover didn't sound any better when I was there. > grover, wasn't he a character on sesame street? oh wait, sesame street is not nearly as avant garde as the muppet show, so maybe we shouldn't discuss it here... ;) love, kate. ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 03:08:44 -0500 ANYTHING that makes Mike's life easier is okay by me. ANYTHING that makes it easier to search the Z-list archives for past profundities is also very much okay. Why should I have to bother youse guys and gals to remind me when it was we last talked about Shipp/Shepp/Bangs/Bangles/Howlin'Wolf/ChristianWolff/ohyeahZorn some time ago? AND: The notion of strangers searching our conversations: weird, though not out of keeping with the Weird Wide Web, where I read others' thoughts all the time, likely without their knowledge. BUT: That said, ideas are currency, and the potential for would-be freelance New York Times Arts and Leisure creeps doing homework with our knowledge and opinions for their master's theses kinda galls me. Therefore, my vote goes towards a private-access, Z-list only archive. (And if anyone really doesn't understand that, I'll be happy to explain my views privately...) Go with Mailman, but keep our thoughts private, is my thought. Steve ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew," 'Paraphernalia' (JMY) ...well aware of the contradiction between my above request and my present NP... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 09:26:39 +0100 > Go with Mailman, but keep our thoughts private, is my thought. > Steve I agree with Steve's opinion. > NP - Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew," 'Paraphernalia' (JMY) > ...well aware of the contradiction between my above request and my present > NP... what do you mean by JMY? (any special edition, etc? Am i just too nervous about miles' 67- 74 releases?) And where does the contradiction come from? And BTW - any info about the upcomieng 'cellar door live' box set? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Gardner Subject: Sing Me a Song of Songmy/Curlew Date: 21 Jan 2002 08:27:23 +0000 I recently bought a cheap Warner Brothers compilation called "Psychedelic Jazz and Soul". The usual suspects Gary Burton, Yusef Lateef, Rahsaan etc. But also included are 2 tracks by Freddie Hubbard: "This is combat I know" and "Threnody for Sharon Tate". I could not believe what I was hearing. Apparently they come from an album called: "Sing Me a Song of Songmy". They are truly strange. I wondered if anyone on the list knows the story behind this release. I see that it is still available on CD coupled with Echoes (of Blue(?)). Is this one I should buy or is it just so weird its not worth bothering with? On an unrelated issue Curlew - the band - are practically unknown in the UK, it is hard to track down their releases. I gather a new one is imminent . Their music seems quite closely related to much of the stuff discussed on this list but they hardly get a mention. They seem to have been going for about 20 years. I first heard of them in Gene Santoro 's book Stir It Up but have seen no mention of them in magazines/books since. Do they gig regularly in NYC? Are they seen as part of the downtown gang? I would appreciate any first hand experience of their live gigs (as far as I know they have never played here). Cheers Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 21 Jan 2002 00:42:29 -0800 > Skip Heller wrote: >> >> You have enlightened me, and everything I know is wrong. > > So. Skip. > > Back in grade school when I was practicing my Hanon, nobody really had much to > say to be about intonation obviously, but it was really important to play on > that beat. When I listen to be-bop, it seems like nobody's on the beat at all > ... these guys are up front, this one's dragging it intermittently ... can't > they play in time? > > What? They're "swinging"? Oh yeah, heard of that. > > So what I'm wondering is, why is it ok to "swing" that beat so outrageously, > but > a mortal sin to "swing" that intonation? There's a difference between bending a note the way you bend time and coming at the pitch inaccurately. I don't hate all out-of-tune music. Take "Paper In My Shoe" by Boozoo Chavis. Or a lot of doo-wop records. But those records don't strike me as artificial. Ornette does. Of course, Boozoo didn't make it a point to drag out some elaborate philsophical system. And, to be technical (re: anal as all get-out), the figure seen as two eighth notes in a row is actually a triplet made up of a quarter note followed by an eighth. So it is an understood version of "what the beat is". In the case of Dexter Gordon, I thought there were times when it went past legato and straight to dragging. To be honest, a lot of be-bop sounds fraudulent and cold to me. I like skill, but a technical excercise by any other name is still that (why I didn't like the later Zappa bands too much). skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 00:47:57 -0800 >> From: Skip Heller >> Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) >> >>> Yeah, I know what you mean. If there's any frat boy who pisses me >>> off it's that Ornette Coleman. >>> >> I don't know if I'd call him a frat boy, but he sure is to Cecil Taylor >> what >> the Blues Bros are to Sonny Boy Williamson (2). > > > Oh give me a break. What on earth would you be drinking to make you come up > with that analogy? Stick to extolling your favorites, Skip. It's what > you're best at. This kind of stuff just leads to unnecessary flatulence. > This from a man who warns us all about dissing on Grover Washington. I'm an > old Philly boy myself and Grover didn't sound any better when I was there. Well, Bill, I haven't had a drink in nearly ten years, for starters. Grover was good enough by Rahsaan Roland Kirk's standards, and he knew something about saxophone players, so I feel backed up on this one. If you don't care for symmetrical music, he's not for you. But his command of the instrument, and his ability to groove, well... his version of "Inner City Blues" is the real stuff. That's a deep part of my playing tradition, and I am proud to come from that. Also, Grover was a beautiful guy who really did a lot to get Philly guys onto bigger and better things. And I am not going to apologize for to you or anyone -- no matter what your objections -- for honestly feeling that something is badly done and saying so. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 03:47:15 -0500 JMY is (or was, it seems) Jazz Music Yesterday, a European quasi-bootleg label with pretty exquisite taste. The "label" released less than 30 discs, but most of them could be considered "highly discerning" choices. The most important of these are probably (in my own opinion) 1) Art Ensemble of Chicago - Eda Wobu; 2) Miles Davis - Paraphernalia; 3) Miles Davis - No Blues. The latter two would certainly have ranked higher, had there not been comparably fine releases from Sony that cover much the same material and period - though of course it's likely that this would not be the case, had the quasi-legit releases not caused such a stir. And why did they cause a stir? Maybe because the legit labels didn't do the job in the first place...? Must admit, in spite of my know-it-all-ness so far tonight, that I don't know any details about Cellar Door. But I'd imagine it's another way in which Sony plans to milk we fans for more stuff from a source we know to be genuine... And the irony to which I referred, of course, was in complaining about lazy journalists sweeping through Google into an open Z-list Archive to steal your/my/our ideas, while at the same time I was listening to a bootleg Miles CD that earned a profit for several people who weren't Miles... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Miles Davis, "Miles Runs the Voodoo Down," 'Paraphernalia' (JMY) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Marcin Gokieli > NP - Miles Davis, "Bitches Brew," 'Paraphernalia' (JMY) > ...well aware of the contradiction between my above request and my present > NP... what do you mean by JMY? (any special edition, etc? Am i just too nervous about miles' 67- 74 releases?) And where does the contradiction come from? And BTW - any info about the upcomieng 'cellar door live' box set? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 03:49:52 EST In a message dated 01.21.02 03:46:17, velaires@earthlink.net writes: >And I am not going to apologize for to you or anyone -- no matter what >your objections -- for honestly feeling that something is badly done and saying >so. yeah, i thought grover's voice was badly done, too. but then again, i expressed my feelings for the more avant-garde muppet show over the lesser and less postmodern and generally genius sesame street... but i digress... ----- hard to be an easy to please composer. (mike rosenthal) where there's a mission, there's a missionary. (jim altieri) k a t e p e t e r s o n composer / performer UFOrbK8@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:01:27 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- > And the irony to which I referred, of course, was in complaining about lazy > journalists sweeping through Google into an open Z-list Archive to steal > your/my/our ideas, while at the same time I was listening to a bootleg Miles > CD that earned a profit for several people who weren't Miles... I may just add that I'm just writing an article on "director's cut" of the movies, using some opinions from this list, and trying to find as much on the web as possible... ;-) Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:43:44 +0100 I fully second Skip's lack of enthousiasm for Ornette's playing. I just can't see how one could compare the things hie did with 'filles de kilimanjaro' or 'Get up with it'. He was pretty succesful in convincing people that what he was doing was creative, but not as succesful as musician And Skip, what do you mean by 'later' Zappa bands you don't like? everything after early MOI? '80s bands? Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Odp: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 21 Jan 2002 01:57:34 -0800 > I fully second Skip's lack of enthousiasm for Ornette's playing. I just > can't see how one could compare the things hie did with 'filles de > kilimanjaro' or 'Get up with it'. He was pretty succesful in convincing > people that what he was doing was creative, but not as succesful as musician > And Skip, what do you mean by 'later' Zappa bands you don't like? everything > after early MOI? '80s bands? > Marcin > The 88 band was kind of the height of great technique/not much fun personality for me. I think his best band was the scaled down 74 line-up. (YCDTOSA, Vol 2). My own weird personal theory -- and this is based on what friends of mine who worked with FZ said about their time with him -- is that he lost something personal when he lost Ruth Underwood. And he didn't really get it back until, ironically, he found the Synclavier, because I think that was the first "Oh my god! I never dreamt I could get this sound" after her. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Odp: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 21 Jan 2002 11:19:41 +0100 > The 88 band was kind of the height of great technique/not much fun > personality for me. I think his best band was the scaled down 74 line-up. > (YCDTOSA, Vol 2). I like the 88 band much. The bras arrangements are amazing. I do not like the 'funk band' sound of the 74 band (george duke is the guilty here) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Denman Maroney Date: 21 Jan 2002 11:15:45 +0100 >From: Acousticlv@aol.com > >n.p.; denman maroney- fluxations- >(superb! -w rothenberg ballou dresser norton) >Steve Koenig is this released somewhere? Andreas _________________________________________________________________ MSN Fotos ist der einfachste Weg, Ihre Fotos auszudrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung zu stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Fenton Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:17:00 +0000 > As for his importance to a period in time, I think -- and in fact I am su= re > -- his greatest contribution was to take an aggressive step where people > could and would hear about it. Interviewer: What is the basis, the logic of, on the one hand, the evolutio= n of the music, and on the other, how the public and media perceive and shape what is happening? For example, with Ornette Coleman's arrival in New York in 1959 and the attention that received. Other innovators, including yourself, had been performing in this =AD for lack of a better term =AD free jazz for several years and being ignored by the press. Why was that? Cecil Taylor: I know why. Part of it was my own doing, because I never play ball with people who were "ersatz." Interviewer: Ersatz? Cecil Taylor: People who are full of shit.=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard Gardner Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #690 Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:22:17 +0000 > And BTW - any info about the upcomieng 'cellar door live' box set? It should be 3 x double CDs. Didn't somebody on this List say that the release is put back to 2003? Richard Gardner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 21:39:35 +1100 Skip, you can't say that something is just your opinion and then equate it to the Emperor with no clothes. You're essentially saying 'this is just my opinion but it's right'... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andreas Dietz" Subject: Re: vibes (Karl Berger and the Creative Music Studio) Date: 21 Jan 2002 11:50:12 +0100 >From: "Vuilleumier, Stéphane" > > >[SNIP]-I'm just getting > >warmed up here, folks, the list goes on and on. Even John Zorn spent >time at CMS. > >and Tom Cora! (not listed on the website). Any detailed info on that >period >would be appreciated! some years ago we had a ROOF concert here in Mainz and afterwards Tom Cora remarked upon Karl Berger as his teacher at CMS in the warmest words... Andreas _________________________________________________________________ MSN Fotos ist der einfachste Weg, Ihre Fotos auszudrucken und anderen Benutzern zur Verfügung zu stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:39:20 +0000 >From: Skip Heller >Well, Bill, I haven't had a drink in nearly ten years, for starters. Whoops. Didn't mean to go there. Bad joke. > >Grover was good enough by Rahsaan Roland Kirk's standards, and he knew >something about saxophone players, so I feel backed up on this one. If you >don't care for symmetrical music, he's not for you. But his command of the >instrument, and his ability to groove, well... his version of "Inner City >Blues" is the real stuff. That's a deep part of my playing tradition, and >I >am proud to come from that. Also, Grover was a beautiful guy who really >did >a lot to get Philly guys onto bigger and better things. Well, maybe so, but Grover's problem was less with his chops than with his material in my opinion. No matter what your personal experience was with Grover, I can't see how you can say or suggest that one of the most seminal musicians in the history of avant-garde jazz is some how worse than the output of Grover Washington Jr.--not only worse, but a bad sax player to boot. > >And I am not going to apologize for to you or anyone -- no matter what your >objections -- for honestly feeling that something is badly done and saying >so. Fair enough, Skip. Me neither. But I'm left concluding from this exchange that you understand very little about harmolodics. Your dismissal struck me as pretty casual and unsupported. If you want to go that way, expect some debate. Bill _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: RE: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:04:14 +0000 >From: "Steve Smith" >BUT: That said, ideas are currency, and the potential for would-be >freelance >New York Times Arts and Leisure creeps doing homework with our knowledge >and >opinions for their master's theses kinda galls me. Therefore, my vote goes >towards a private-access, Z-list only archive. (And if anyone really >doesn't >understand that, I'll be happy to explain my views privately...) I don't know, Steve. Do you really think that a mailing list houses intellectual property? There are actually procedures in which information from such a list must be documented in formal papers. If people scanning the lists for information and thinking about music actually find something useful, advancing the cause of the music in the process, what's the harm? If somebody should want to steal my rhetoric/ideas and put something into print, they can have it. I didn't get it all by myself anyway. We're all collective authors. Other than that, Mike can do whatever he wants. I don't have any preferences. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: New Dave Douglas album Date: 21 Jan 2002 08:52:39 -0500 It's great to hear this group after the experience of NOT hearing the trio of Mengelberg, Bennink and Douglas at their debut performance at the Guelph Jazz Festival a couple of years ago. There seemed to be lots of interesting things going on at that show (and Dave said he enjoyed it), but since Misha refused to be mic'ed and Han was in one of his over-the-top moods it was hard to tell. Despite this CD bearing Misha's name this sounds like a band, with Dave playing as much as he does on most of his own recordings. Aside from the two Monk tunes, there are quite a few songs that sound like they were inspired by Dutch-German-Austrian folk melodies. Dave sounds particularly good on these, soloing much like he does with Tiny Bell. I haven't delved into this as deeply yet as I would if I was reviewing it, but on the half-dozen or so listens I've given it, I'd say I enjoyed it more than "Serpentine". James Hale Arthur Gadney wrote: > Hello. > > Any comments on the new Dave Douglas CD with Misha Mengelberg and Han > Bennink? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Sweet Subject: Re: vibes (Karl Berger and the Creative Music Studio) Date: 21 Jan 2002 09:15:23 -0500 I, too, must register warm words for Karl as a teacher. I often remember = him saying, "You have a thousand times more music in you than you think you = have," when I need to be boosted out of frustration. For those of you in the vicinity of Woodstock, New York, be sure to check = out the fourth in a series of Creative Music Studio "reemergence" concerts, = this Saturday, January 26. You can expect to hear some amazing stuff from = the Music Universe (CMS alumni) Orchestra. The lineup is likely to include = Karl Berger (vibes, piano)and Ingrid Sertso (voice), John Lindberg (bass), = Peter Apfelbaum (saxophones), Peter Einhorn, (guitar), Tom Schmidt = (percussion, ngoni), Donnie Davis (alto sax), Peter Buettner (tenor sax, = flute), Sylvain Leroux (flutes), Ted Orr (guitar), Bill Ylitalo (baritone = sax), Larry Chernicoff (vibes), Janet Grice (bassoon), David Rothenberg = (clarinets) and others. Bob Sweet bsweet@umich.edu read Music Universe, Music Mind, Revisiting the Creatrive Music Studio http://www.arborville.com --On Monday, January 21, 2002 11:50 AM +0100 Andreas Dietz = wrote: > >From: "Vuilleumier, St=E9phane" > > > > >[SNIP]-I'm just getting > > >warmed up here, folks, the list goes on and on. Even John Zorn spent > >time at CMS. > > > >and Tom Cora! (not listed on the website). Any detailed info on that > >period > >would be appreciated! > > some years ago we had a ROOF concert here in Mainz and afterwards Tom > Cora remarked upon Karl Berger as his teacher at CMS in the warmest > words... > > Andreas > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Fotos ist der einfachste Weg, Ihre Fotos auszudrucken und anderen > Benutzern zur Verf=FCgung zu stellen: > http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers Subject: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 09:43:28 -0500 --=====================_559641218==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed mike, Hey, I'm pretty flexible. Whatever makes your life easier, works for me. --ds Dennis Summers Quantum Dance Works members.home.net/dennisqdw/ --=====================_559641218==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" mike,

Hey, I'm pretty flexible. Whatever makes your life easier, works for me. --ds

Dennis Summers
Quantum Dance Works
members.home.net/dennisqdw/ --=====================_559641218==_.ALT-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers Subject: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:05:48 -0500 --=====================_560981718==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Does anyone here remember the Ornette conversation a couple of years back, where everyone was raving about how good he was? Ornette was my introduction to all that weird and difficult kind of jazz. And I'm certain without him, I wouldn't have come to Zorn as early as I did. I'd like to second the previous poster on the point that I too have always found Ornette's music to be profoundly emotional and moving. Not having the "ear" that others on this list have, I don't notice or mind the "out-of-tuneness" which may seem like sacrilege to some of you. He doesn't sound any more out of tune to me than many early blues music which I (and many others) find closely related. For what it's worth Ornette has always said that he wants to be known more for his compositions, anyone. What do you naysayers think of his compositions as opposed to his playing? I do have to agree with many, that much of his '70s fusion type stuff, is not great, but I still hear individual fantastic pieces. And as much as I like his "return" to acoustic music, I do think that it is not as challenging as his early music. But I find it beautiful in a different way. Now to really upset people. I have tried repeatedly, over some 20 years to "get" Cecil Taylor. Based on my musical interests, I understand that I should love him. But, he has always left me cold. To my ears, it is all clinical technique, and no soul. Maybe, it's just a question of taste:-) Hey, I still love the Sex Pistols. Which to me was the Ornette Coleman Quartet of the '70s, drugs, chaos and all. --ds Dennis Summers Quantum Dance Works members.home.net/dennisqdw/ --=====================_560981718==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone here remember the Ornette conversation a couple of years back, where everyone was raving about how good he was?
Ornette was my introduction to all that weird and difficult kind of jazz. And I'm certain without him, I wouldn't have come to Zorn as early as I did. I'd like to second the previous poster on the point that I too have always found Ornette's music to be profoundly emotional and moving. Not having the "ear" that others on this list have, I don't notice or mind the "out-of-tuneness" which may seem like sacrilege to some of you. He doesn't sound any more out of tune to me than many early blues music which I (and many others) find closely related. For what it's worth Ornette has always said that he wants to be known more for his compositions, anyone. What do you naysayers think of his compositions as opposed to his playing? I do have to agree with many, that much of his '70s fusion type stuff, is not great, but I still hear individual fantastic pieces. And as much as I like his "return" to acoustic music, I do think that it is not as challenging as his early music. But I find it beautiful in a different way.

Now to really upset people. I have tried repeatedly, over some 20 years to "get" Cecil Taylor. Based on my musical interests, I understand that I should love him. But, he has always left me cold. To my ears, it is all clinical technique, and no soul.

Maybe, it's just a question of taste:-) Hey, I still love the Sex Pistols. Which to me was the Ornette Coleman Quartet of the '70s, drugs, chaos and all.

--ds

Dennis Summers
Quantum Dance Works
members.home.net/dennisqdw/ --=====================_560981718==_.ALT-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 07:20:52 -0800 I want to put in my 2=A2 for Ornette too. I don't know his 70's work, but the stuff he did in the late 50's and early 60's I think is great. 'Lonely Lady,' I mean what's wrong with that piece? -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ricardo Jorge" Subject: Seigen ono Date: 21 Jan 2002 15:28:23 +0000 can anyone point me to a site with copmplete discography and line up of the albums? _________________________________________________________________ O MSN Photos é o jeito mais fácil de compartilhar e imprimir as suas fotos: http://photos.msn.com.br/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: seijun suzuki's TOKYO DRIFTER Date: 21 Jan 2002 07:55:20 -0800 (PST) Criterion Collection reissued this on DVD, and the catalog refers to it as a "free-jazz" gangster film. This seems to be an oblique reference that has nothing to do with the music used in the film, only perhaps the editing---but it caught my attention. I thought I'd ask how relevant the "free-jazz" reference is, and see if the film was worth checking out. Thanks in advance, -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: seijun suzuki's TOKYO DRIFTER Date: 21 Jan 2002 11:03:57 EST In a message dated 1/21/02 10:56:12 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: << Criterion Collection reissued this on DVD, and the catalog refers to it as a "free-jazz" gangster film. This seems to be an oblique reference that has nothing to do with the music used in the film, only perhaps the editing---but it caught my attention. I thought I'd ask how relevant the "free-jazz" reference is, and see if the film was worth checking out. >> I saw this pretty recently, and enjoyed it quite a bit. I think you're right about the free-jazz reference being about the editing, as I don't recall much, if any, on the soundtrack. it's a wild movie, though. Branded To Kill, which Suzuki made the following year, is also quite good, maybe not as overtly stylistically wild, and the Criterion DVD comes with liners by our mutual friend Mr. Zorn. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice Subject: Re: seijun suzuki's TOKYO DRIFTER Date: 21 Jan 2002 17:08:57 +0100 Seijun Suzuki was discussed here a year ago or so... Can't remember exactly what people said about Tokyo Drifter... In the meantime I got my hands on the video of his Branded To Kill, which I do quite like. I'd even go as far as recommending it to you... ;-) Didn't someone also mention last time Suzuki was talked about here that Zorn himself is very much into his films. BTW: there's a new English-language magazine by Hotei Publishing (Netherlands; www.hotei-publishing.com) entitled Japan - and as the title suggests it's about nothing else but Japan related issues; in the first issue there is quite an interesting article about Yakuza films - from the very first ones that came out way back to Suzuki to some weird 1960s/70s stuff (that I'd love to see, but couldn't find anywhere...) to Takeshi Kitano... patRice np: Drahdiwaberl, Werwolfromantik, GIG nr: Horiyoshi III, 108 Heroes of the Suikoden Scott Handley wrote: > Criterion Collection reissued this on DVD, and the > catalog refers to it as a "free-jazz" gangster film. > This seems to be an oblique reference that has nothing > to do with the music used in the film, only perhaps > the editing---but it caught my attention. I thought > I'd ask how relevant the "free-jazz" reference is, and > see if the film was worth checking out. Thanks in > advance, - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 17:15:22 +0100 (CET) hi, Dennis Summers wrote: > Now to really upset people. I have tried repeatedly, > over some 20 years to > "get" Cecil Taylor. Based on my musical interests, I > understand that I > should love him. But, he has always left me cold. To > my ears, it is all > clinical technique, and no soul. I've always thought that Taylor is precisely all soul and I find his playing absolutely "dirty" and intuitive, as one might think of Brötzmann's blowing or Ornette himself. I've never seen Taylor as a technical pianist as I'd regard, for instance, Joey Baron or Mary Ehrlich on their respective instruments. Best, Efrén _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: fine bootlegs (was RE: Zorn List Change) Date: 21 Jan 2002 08:39:39 -0800 (PST) > JMY is (or was, it seems) Jazz Music Yesterday, a > European quasi-bootleg > label....3) Miles Davis - No > Blues. Neither here nor there, but I distinctly remember Dave DOuglas making much ado about this very bootleg (IIRC)in some interview or some such feature. He referred to it as being full of eight-minute Wayne Shorter solos that made avalanches of sense. A tidbit, from caffeine-soaked memory, -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Fwd: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 16:38:37 +0000 >From: Efrén del Valle > > >I've always thought that Taylor is precisely all soul >and I find his playing absolutely "dirty"... Ha! Must be all that time he spent with James Brown... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tosh Subject: Ornette wrong title Date: 21 Jan 2002 07:52:25 -0800 Ooops, It's 'Lonely Woman' not 'Lonely Lady.' Sorry! -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 08:46:54 -0800 (PST) --- William York wrote: >[speaking of the Ornette box BEAUTY IS A RARE THING] That said, my favorite quote in there > is from Monk: "Man, that > cat is nuts!" The photo accompanying this quote is so absolutely perfect, it nearly warrants purchase of the boxset alone. I fully intend to make an iron-on transfer T-shirt, right after I complete my starf**king "Keith Rowe is fly t-shirt. Hell yes I will. -----s, too much time on hands __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: duncan youngerman Subject: re:ornette Date: 08 Jan 2002 15:23:50 +0100 What about Ornette's "Skies of America" for string orchestra? I remember enjoying that or at least feeling it to be 1at least 100 times more authentic and inspiring than anything Grover Washington could ever come up with. I'd have to hear it again after all these years. But there's a kind of mad reason, or intuitive intellectualism in O.C.s music (early at least) which I found and still find stimulating, and which I feel deserves more respect than it's been getting from some here. DY. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" Subject: Re: Ornette wrong title Date: 21 Jan 2002 10:12:59 -0800 >>>Ooops, It's 'Lonely Woman' not 'Lonely Lady.' Sorry!<<< Not to worry. It's easy to get Sinatra and Coleman mixed up. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Fwd: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:53:51 -0500 Spencer A. Richards: A couple of years ago you were rehearsing with Ornette, how was that for you as an experience, learning to play someone else's music? Cecil Taylor: It was an interesting experience, interesting in that Ornette arranged for me to have a Bosendorfer and I worked on the music for about three days. And just before he came in, the thought entered my mind, that "Ornette might not be happy with what you've done with that." So he heard me play and he said, "Oh, no, no, I want more triads." So that necessitated me reworking the piece; so he was rather patient and after about an hour and a half, he played this music and my respect for him became even more profound, when I saw all the music he had made on these triads. So then an hour later I was ready to proceed. My interest in playing with him was really to see if I could confound that rhythm section of his. And using the information that is gleaned from Marvin Gaye I started, and Ornette said to me, "There's too much activity in your left hand." Well! It was over. May 1988, from liner notes to 'Live in Vienna' (Leo) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas chatterton >From: Efrén del Valle > > >I've always thought that Taylor is precisely all soul >and I find his playing absolutely "dirty"... Ha! Must be all that time he spent with James Brown... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: Ornette etc. Date: 21 Jan 2002 14:22:16 -0500 Hello, ...this has been an interesting exchange, and I'll chime in w/ the opinion that Ornette's music never seemed particularly "out-there" or odd to me. I'd heard both Cecil's "Winged Serpent" on Soul Note and Ayler's "Love Cry" previous to encountering Coleman. When I bought "Free Jazz", I recognized that it was unique from nearly all the jazz that had came before, but I still heard overt connections to tradition, or it still sounded "jazzy". Taylor's "Winged Serpent", which I plucked from a local cut-out bin when I was about a year out of high school, sounded unlike anything I'd ever heard before, and while I knew from reading that it WAS jazz, I found the only way I could connect it to jazz was through the instruments being used. My reaction wasn't negative, and I kept listening and broadening the amount of jazz in my collection, and playing it for other people. After a while, I tended to get the feeling that trained musicians tended to dislike Coleman more than Taylor, and that casual music fans (or people who don't actively collect music) could warm to Ornette, while Taylor was almost always a source of irritation ("Can we listen to something else?" "This sounds like a band warming up!") Me, I'll agree that Taylor's lifetime (as another lister put it) is one of the high points of 20th century music, and that Coleman's Atlantic period is quite astounding (yeah, "Lonely Woman" conjures an ache that I've never felt from another jazz tune. For a long time, that was the cut that I'd use to introduce the curious to Ornette's work). I also like "Town Hall 1962" on ESP, "New York Is Now!" on Blue Note, the Columbia reissues "Skies of America" and "The Complete Science Fiction Sessions" and the A&M/Verve "Dancing In Your Head". I've heard some circa 1980's material that did very little for me. After trying to decide who I value more, Archie Shepp or The Howlin' Wolf, I've concluded that I wouldn't want to be w/out either of them, particularly Impulse/BYG Shepp, or The Wolf that dropped bombs like "Moanin' at Midnight" or "Cadillac Daddy". I remain.... Joseph NP: Jon Raskin Quartet- "The Bass & The Bird Pond" CD NR: William Gaddis- "Carpenter's Gothic" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:10:27 -0600 But I'm left concluding from this exchange that you understand very little about harmolodics. do you understand harmolodics? (bill or anyone) and if so could someone direct me to a source that would be good for understanding it... or at least explain it to me. all the interviews and books where it's been mentioned are so vague that it seemed a little bullshitty to me. but this is only an impression. i am open and willing to change my mind on this. i just had the impression from Ornette interviews that it was just this vague b.s. idea given a fancy name to draw attention. so somebody prove this wrong. thanks, -samuel - _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: RE: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 14:12:15 -0500 Your point, Bill, is cogent and well-stated, as always. I guess I'm just particularly sensitive to the issue because I write for a living, and every journalist can tell you about instances in which an idea floated out there "privately" ended up in print with someone else's byline attached. (There have been a few particularly egregious examples at Times - none of which, I might add, were instigated by any staff writer.) But I suppose the notion that a mailing list is in any way a "private" conversation (even among the 700 of us here!) is foolish - an "illusion of safety," as it were. I hereby withdraw my request regarding the archives. If someone were to discover them and join us, that would be great. And while I would not want my ideas and rhetoric "stolen" outright, if someone were to discover them and use them in that way, it would serve me right for not pushing the idea out there into print myself. And if, as you say, someone discovers an idea that makes them write something I/we didn't consider, then that would indeed be a fine thing. The possibilities for positive effect had escaped me momentarily - thanks for quashing my paranoia! Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Mahler, Symphony No. 7 - San Francisco Sym/Tilson Thomas (SFS Media) -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Ashline I don't know, Steve. Do you really think that a mailing list houses intellectual property? There are actually procedures in which information from such a list must be documented in formal papers. If people scanning the lists for information and thinking about music actually find something useful, advancing the cause of the music in the process, what's the harm? If somebody should want to steal my rhetoric/ideas and put something into print, they can have it. I didn't get it all by myself anyway. We're all collective authors. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joeseph Simon" Subject: RE: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 14:16:36 -0500 Isn't it improvising inbetween a set structure. Inbetween notes, doing improvisation??? Joe Simon -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Samuel Quentin Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:10 PM But I'm left concluding from this exchange that you understand very little about harmolodics. do you understand harmolodics? (bill or anyone) and if so could someone direct me to a source that would be good for understanding it... or at le= ast explain it to me. all the interviews and books where it's been mentioned are so vague that it seemed a little bullshitty to me. but this is only = an impression. i am open and willing to change my mind on this. i just had the impression from Ornette interviews that it was just this vague b.s. idea given a fancy name to draw attention. so somebody prove this wrong. thanks, -samuel - _________________________________________________________________ Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@browbeat.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn List Change? (PLEASE READ) Date: 21 Jan 2002 11:18:10 -0800 (PST) Thanks for the comments Steve... Steve Smith, demi-God and Icon sez: > >ANYTHING that makes Mike's life easier is okay by me. >Go with Mailman, but keep our thoughts private, is my thought. Sadly, we can't have both searchable and private archives for the zorn-list. They go together since google.com is the provider of searching capability for xmission. I'd like to point out that the current zorn-list archives are not private. Anyone can browse into them from the zorn-list website right now. mike rizzi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: RE: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:22:58 -0600 Isn't it improvising inbetween a set structure. Inbetween notes, doing improvisation??? if that's the case then i don't see what's so hard to understand about it. an original idea for it's time but i don't see why it requires the fancy name. -Samuel _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 19:46:13 +0000 >From: "Samuel Quentin" > > >do you understand harmolodics? (bill or anyone) and if so could someone >direct me to a source that would be good for understanding it... Don't know if I understand harmolodics in the theoretical sense, but as I mentioned earlier, seeing the original Prime Time band gave me a chance to experience the sound of it, which to me seemed relatively simple (in theory!) but very complex and difficult to pull off in practice, That is, each instrumental voice plays a lead melodic(solo) line that is also relative harmonically and rhythmically to what the other soloists are playing. So we have harmonic melodies (melodic harmonies?), that's my rudimentary grasp of the concept. Once again, it's unfortunate there are no recordings that do that Prime Time band justice (and certainly the second edition of that band with the keyboardists was pure shite!). Incidentally, didn't the jazz-rock-blues-harmolodic guitarist Blood Ulmer, (whose last album some on this list seem to favour) serve his apprenticeship with Ornette? np: Aztec Gameshow Death Ritual _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Ornette Coleman Is God Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:07:11 -0800 > >> The 88 band was kind of the height of great technique/not much fun >> personality for me. I think his best band was the scaled down 74 line-up. >> (YCDTOSA, Vol 2). > > I like the 88 band much. The bras arrangements are amazing. I do not like > the 'funk band' sound of the 74 band (george duke is the guilty here) > > See, I thought the funkier rhythm section did a lot to get that music to breathe a little more. There's something very animated about that period for me. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:07:55 -0800 > Skip, you can't say that something is just your opinion and then equate it > to the Emperor with no clothes. You're essentially saying 'this is just my > opinion but it's right'... > > > - > How about "This is my opinion and I don't feel it's wrong?" sh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 15:07:10 -0500 I've never seen a completely satisfactory explanation of harmolodics, and I couldn't even begin to sort through the definition Ornette once provided directly to me. There's a live radio broadcast of Prime Time v. 1 from the 1982 Montreal jazz festival that comes close to capturing their sound, but so much of their impact was through volume dynamics that I really don't think a recording can do them complete justice. You really had to see what Bern Nix and Charlie Ellerbee were doing to sort through it; same goes for Jamaaladeen and McDowell. That said, OF HUMAN FEELINGS is one of the best-sounding recordings of its time (WHEN will it be on CD???) but that's a bit of a cheat because it was only half the band, which probably accounts for the clarity. I think the most representative recordings of harmolodic theory in action are some of the Decoding Society recordings, particularly NASTY and MANDANCE. You can really hear the parts shifting over and around each other. As far as Blood goes, I think ARE YOU GLAD TO BE IN AMERICA captures his approach to harmolodics best, mainly because of the presence of Shannon Jackson, who embodies the multi-layered approach as much as Ornette himself and is the only Ornette-trained drummer with the chops to pull it off by himself. James Hale thomas chatterton wrote: > Once again, it's unfortunate there are no recordings that do that Prime Time > band justice (and certainly the second edition of that band with the > keyboardists was pure shite!). Incidentally, didn't the > jazz-rock-blues-harmolodic guitarist Blood Ulmer, (whose last album some on > this list seem to favour) serve his apprenticeship with Ornette? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition) Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:19:26 -0800 >> From: Skip Heller > Grover's problem was less with his chops than with his > material in my opinion. No matter what your personal experience was with > Grover, I can't see how you can say or suggest that one of the most seminal > musicians in the history of avant-garde jazz is some how worse than the > output of Grover Washington Jr.--not only worse, but a bad sax player to > boot. Well, if you don't like rhythm'n'blues, you're not going to like GW's material. I'll go so far as to agree his later stuff got sugary. But the early Kudu recordings are badass. Certainly beyond any questions of authenticity. I also don't think avant-garde jazz is any more noble than any other form of music that people play for money, so belonging to that camp does not buy you protection. > Fair enough, Skip. Me neither. But I'm left concluding from this exchange > that you understand very little about harmolodics. Your dismissal struck me > as pretty casual and unsupported. If you want to go that way, expect some > debate. Actually, I probably know more about it than you're led to believe. And I hold it as suspect as I hold other systems theories in music. I also think that just because a guy invents a vehicle does not mean he operates best. For example, I am no huge Schoenberg fan, but I do go for Berg and Webern in a big way. I always held Cherry as the harmelodic improvisor of note. His attention to craft, his ability to really play the damn trumpet, his ability to project ideas and be an effective ensemble player no matter with whom he plays, and his beautiful sound all let me in on something deep and special. Personally, I don't care about the debate. And my dismissal of the stuff is based on years of hearing it, going back to it with the question of "Am I missing something?" and checking it out again. And always coming up with the same answer -- something I can't say about Cecil, Paul Bley, 70s Miles, and of course Sun Ra. Orrin Keepnews had a sign up in his studio that read "Important to who?", and I think that's always the best question. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:22:40 -0800 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3094460560_87501_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anyone here remember the Ornette conversation a couple of years back, where everyone was raving about how good he was? Ornette was my introduction to all that weird and difficult kind of jazz. And I'm certain without him, I wouldn't have come to Zorn as early as I did. I'd like to second the previous poster on the point that I too have always found Ornette's music to be profoundly emotional and moving. Not having the "ear" that others on this list have, I don't notice or mind the "out-of-tuneness" which may seem like sacrilege to some of you. He doesn't sound any more out of tune to me than many early blues music which I (and many others) find closely related. For what it's worth Ornette has always said that he wants to be known more for his compositions, anyone. What do you naysayers think of his compositions as opposed to his playing? I do have to agree with many, that much of his '70s fusion type stuff, is not great, but I still hear individual fantastic pieces. And as much as I like his "return" to acoustic music, I do think that it is not as challenging as his early music. But I find it beautiful in a different way. >>Personally, I think there are a small handfull of okay compositions in there -- "Lonely Woman", "Ramblin'", and "Humpty Dumpty" come to mind. But they don't hit me over the head the way Minugus does. Now to really upset people. I have tried repeatedly, over some 20 years to "get" Cecil Taylor. Based on my musical interests, I understand that I should love him. But, he has always left me cold. To my ears, it is all clinical technique, and no soul. >>A lot of it can be. The guy made too many records. But have you checked out the first quartet with Lacy? Maybe, it's just a question of taste:-) Hey, I still love the Sex Pistols. >>Who doesn't? skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3094460560_87501_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Ornette

Does anyone here remember the Ornette conversation a couple of = years back, where everyone was raving about how good he was?
Ornette was my introduction to all that weird and difficult kind of jazz. A= nd I'm certain without him, I wouldn't have come to Zorn as early as I did. = I'd like to second the previous poster on the point that I too have always f= ound Ornette's music to be profoundly emotional and moving. Not having the &= quot;ear" that others on this list have, I don't notice or mind the &qu= ot;out-of-tuneness" which may seem like sacrilege to some of you. He do= esn't sound any more out of tune to me than many early blues music which I (= and many others) find closely related. For what it's worth Ornette has alway= s said that he wants to be known more for his compositions, anyone. What do = you naysayers think of his compositions as opposed to his playing? I do have= to agree with many, that much of his '70s fusion type stuff, is not great, = but I still hear individual fantastic pieces. And as much as I like his &quo= t;return" to acoustic music, I do think that it is not as challenging a= s his early music. But I find it beautiful in a different way.

>>Personally, I think there are a small handfull of okay compositions= in there -- "Lonely Woman", "Ramblin'", and "Humpt= y Dumpty" come to mind.  But they don't hit me over the head the w= ay Minugus does.

Now to really upset people. I have tried repeatedly, over some 20 years to = "get" Cecil Taylor. Based on my musical interests, I understand th= at I should love him. But, he has always left me cold. To my ears, it is all= clinical technique, and no soul.

>>A lot of it can be.  The guy made too many records.  But = have you checked out the first quartet with Lacy?

Maybe, it's just a question of taste:-) Hey, I still love the = Sex Pistols.

>>Who doesn't?

skip h --MS_Mac_OE_3094460560_87501_MIME_Part-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:27:14 -0800 > > > But I'm left concluding from this exchange > that you understand very little about harmolodics. > > > do you understand harmolodics? (bill or anyone) and if so could someone > direct me to a source that would be good for understanding it... or at least > explain it to me. all the interviews and books where it's been mentioned > are so vague that it seemed a little bullshitty to me. but this is only an > impression. i am open and willing to change my mind on this. > i just had the impression from Ornette interviews that it was just this > vague b.s. idea given a fancy name to draw attention. so somebody prove > this wrong. > thanks, > -samuel > - > Even that Ornette advocate Francis Davis (a freind of mine who I mostly disagree with) said it was probably a name he came up with after the fact. I think it is a vague, bullshitty systems theory. But some guys -- Cherry, Ulmer, etc -- have been grounded enough in basic literature and technique to be able to apply it and do something with it. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Saleski Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 15:47:23 -0500 i saw Ornette & Prime Time several years back in boston. from the little that i had read about harmolodics i pretty much got what i expected: each player can chose to improvise off of any other player. some of the tunes started this way. it kinda remined me of an aural depiction of mandelbrot 'patterns'. what really amazed me was when they would get some momentum going....and i would be thinking that they had descended into pure caos...and, gee, how are they going to get themselves out of this? then, going on some cue that i couldn't see (or hear) everybody would stop...a slight pause....and then they would take off into another direction. cool as hell. mark -- Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com | http://www.foliage.com/~marks "Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: North Indian classical recommendations Date: 21 Jan 2002 12:46:35 -0800 (PST) --- Herb Levy wrote: > I'm (very) partial to Hariprasad Chaurasia who > plays bansuri (bamboo > flute) (especially the ragas recorded for Nimbus) & > Ali Akbar Khan > who plays sarod (with lots of reissued older things > coming out from a > label called AMMP). Chiming in: I saw Chaurasia in New Orleans on a very rainy night. The power went out mid-performance, and with it the house lights (except for dim emergency lights) and the electric tamboura drone. With no PA, the musicians did not hesitate for even a moment, but carried on in the near-dark, enhanced by the pure acoustics, sans PA. It was breathtaking and perfect; the 30-40 minute raga seemed to end too soon. Time felt suspended. Perhaps a little more help to you, http://www.shrimatis.com is a great place to shop for Indian music. The proprieters seem very friendly and helpful and have made many great recommendations for me and indulged my incessant questions patiently. There are a number of ok-to-mediocre recordings of pretty itense performances by the masters on the All India Radio series, all at pretty incredibly low prices ($5-8 each), though I had to dig a bit to find these. A cursory check yielded some under "T-Series" in the "Instrumental" PDF catalog. Herb mentioned ALi Akbar Khan's AMMP label; I have the installments of the "Signature Series" and have found them all to be outstanding, particularly the duo performance between Khan and the sitarist Nikhil Banerjee (SigSeries Vol.4); that dash toward the end is lickety-split fun. -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 14:58:27 -0600 I think it almost certainly is a theory that was create post creation of the music. The question that's not being asked, though, is why was Ornette compelled to make a theory to describe his music? I know he took a lot of heat when he went to NY and maybe creating an obscurant theoretical system was a way to get some critics to back off. Folk musicians usually aren't required to describe the theory of their music, as far as I know. (I could be entirely wrong here). Anyway, it seems to me that no one should have been forcing him to explain his music theoretically any more than Dock Boggs or Skip James or Lightnin' Hopkins or Serbian brass bands or Uzbek dutar players should be forced to describe their music theoretically. Does "knowing" that harmolodics exist enhance a listeners appreciation of the music? Rob At 12:27 PM 1/21/02 -0800, Skip Heller wrote: >Even that Ornette advocate Francis Davis (a freind of mine who I mostly >disagree with) said it was probably a name he came up with after the fact. > >I think it is a vague, bullshitty systems theory. But some guys -- Cherry, >Ulmer, etc -- have been grounded enough in basic literature and technique to >be able to apply it and do something with it. > >skip h > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 16:08:38 -0500 "Robert A. Pleshar" wrote: > I think it almost certainly is a theory that was create post creation of > the music. The question that's not being asked, though, is why was Ornette > compelled to make a theory to describe his music? One should never underestimate Ornette's understanding of how the game is played in terms of attracting media attention. Despite the generally-held feeling that he is removed from the day-to-day, he has shown time and again that he's a canny PR man in his own right. And it says a lot about the jazz media that we've been asking him the same questions for more than 40 years. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: PaanKu@aol.com Subject: REMOVE Date: 21 Jan 2002 16:09:01 EST how do i get removed from this list? i cant deal with an overstuffed mailbox every day and i cant deal with having some 300 emails to root through if i miss checking my mail for a single evening. please, whoever has the power, take me off - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:46:10 -0800 > "Robert A. Pleshar" wrote: > >> I think it almost certainly is a theory that was create post creation of >> the music. The question that's not being asked, though, is why was Ornette >> compelled to make a theory to describe his music? > > One should never underestimate Ornette's understanding of how the game is > played > in terms of attracting media attention. > Despite the generally-held feeling that he is removed from the day-to-day, he > has shown time and again that he's a canny PR man in his own right. And it > says > a lot about the jazz media that we've been asking him the same questions for > more than 40 years. > > James Hale > > > - > That's always be exactly my perception of the Ornette situation. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 13:55:49 -0800 > I think it almost certainly is a theory that was create post creation of > the music. The question that's not being asked, though, is why was Ornette > compelled to make a theory to describe his music? Because he had a jazz press to deal with. I know he took a lot of > heat when he went to NY and maybe creating an obscurant theoretical system > was a way to get some critics to back off. Folk musicians usually aren't > required to describe the theory of their music, as far as I know. (I could > be entirely wrong here). In some places, he took heat. But he definitely was fashionable among a certain influential crowd. Anyway, it seems to me that no one should have > been forcing him to explain his music theoretically any more than Dock > Boggs or Skip James or Lightnin' Hopkins or Serbian brass bands or Uzbek > dutar players should be forced to describe their music theoretically. If you go into the world of jazz -- which is covered by the jazz press -- and purport to be doing something original, you'd better be prepared to give good soundbyte. Boggs, James, and the others didn't have DOWNBEAT circa 1961 to deal with. Just think of the shitstorm that come down on proven players like Trane. Media savvy does not hurt. > Does "knowing" that harmolodics exist enhance a listeners appreciation of > the music? Probably it shouldn't. skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 16:17:12 -0600 Yes, I am certainly aware of these facts. The question is why is the world of jazz different than the world of folk or rock or blues? What is it about the culture of jazz writing that makes these the questions that get asked? And why is it that the answers don't seem to satisfy the critics most of the time? Is Ornette a primitive or a theoretical mastermind? Can't he be both or neither? Are these even the right categories or are they imposed by "western" standards and don't even really fit? Does one need tons of theoretical knowledge in order to play music in a certain style? Leaving out ones taste for Ornette's playing, is it not conceivable that he did come up with a new way of playing and putting things together and maybe was not able to explain it very well? Rob At 01:55 PM 1/21/02 -0800, Skip Heller wrote: > > >> I think it almost certainly is a theory that was create post creation of >> the music. The question that's not being asked, though, is why was Ornette >> compelled to make a theory to describe his music? > >Because he had a jazz press to deal with. > > I know he took a lot of >> heat when he went to NY and maybe creating an obscurant theoretical system >> was a way to get some critics to back off. Folk musicians usually aren't >> required to describe the theory of their music, as far as I know. (I could >> be entirely wrong here). > >In some places, he took heat. But he definitely was fashionable among a >certain influential crowd. > > Anyway, it seems to me that no one should have >> been forcing him to explain his music theoretically any more than Dock >> Boggs or Skip James or Lightnin' Hopkins or Serbian brass bands or Uzbek >> dutar players should be forced to describe their music theoretically. > >If you go into the world of jazz -- which is covered by the jazz press -- >and purport to be doing something original, you'd better be prepared to give >good soundbyte. > >Boggs, James, and the others didn't have DOWNBEAT circa 1961 to deal with. >Just think of the shitstorm that come down on proven players like Trane. >Media savvy does not hurt. > > >> Does "knowing" that harmolodics exist enhance a listeners appreciation of >> the music? > >Probably it shouldn't. > >skip h > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 14:44:05 -0800 > Yes, I am certainly aware of these facts. The question is why is the world > of jazz different than the world of folk or rock or blues? What is it about > the culture of jazz writing that makes these the questions that get asked? > And why is it that the answers don't seem to satisfy the critics most of > the time? The culture of rock is largely the same at this point. The world of jazz was penetrated by intellectuals who wanted to turn it into an intellectually documentable form. Jazz writers, who are largely intellectuals, relate to jazz as an intellectual endeavor. Unfortunately, this has lead to a dismissal of a lot of jazz, which can't really be reduced to intellectualism. And I say reduced because the only way to get something to fit into an "ism", you have to make it smaller. I think the largest reason critics are unsatisfied with answers is that few musicians speak English as well as they speak music. Cannonball Adderley and Dave Brubeck are the grand exceptions to this. But few people are as good at explaining what they do as they are at doing it. Just as very few great muscians are also universally considered great teachers (and Joe Morello is the cardinal exception to this, apparently). > Is Ornette a primitive or a theoretical mastermind? Can't he be both or > neither? He goes through great pains to present himself as the former. If that's any yardstick. Are these even the right categories or are they imposed by > "western" standards and don't even really fit? Well, I think Ornette made sure he was dealing with those standards, just by the way he dealt with the press over the years. Does one need tons of > theoretical knowledge in order to play music in a certain style? I don't know about tons, but you need a certain understanding of the rules that regulate form, otherwise you're not transcending form, you're jerking off. (Think about any form, regardless of style, as a kind of baseball diamond, and then think about running the bases in a different order. You would need motivation and a certain tactical reason to do stuff like that in order for it to make sense with regards to the form of baseball. Same goes for music, whether you're putting extra bars in a 12 bar blues, introducing upper partials in a bluegrass context, or whatever. Just "breaking rules" doesn't accomplish anything. But extending the tradition by EXTENDING RATHER THAN IGNORING the tactical practice is where the innovation comes in, whether you're bringing an electric guitar to a style that never had one before [such as T-Bone Walker did] or doing away with symmetrical time as a tracable pulse within the music [as Tristano did].) Leaving > out ones taste for Ornette's playing, is it not conceivable that he did > come up with a new way of playing and putting things together and maybe was > not able to explain it very well? Was it all that new, tho? The props don't usually go to Tristano for the first intentionally free jazz attempts (no harmony, the only predetermined thing was soloing order). And the "playing off each other's line intuitively" tactic can be heard in most jazz records made by 1927. The answer is yes, but, even more, "Yes how?" skip h - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 17:56:20 -0500 I don't think the jazz media is alone in this... the folk press and early rock press used to ask Bob Dylan 'what it all meant' and Rolling Stone's early years are filled with literature-grads-turned-critics trying to explain music that doesn't really require an explanation. What sets the better critics apart is that they can move beyond those impulses to try to explain it all. Perhaps a better way to understand Ornette's dilemma of constantly having to explain himself is to realize that he often asks people on meeting them for the first time, "Do you play?" If he gets a negative answer, the curtain comes down. I think he realizes that if you don't play, you'll never understand his music, or at least the joy of making it. James Hale "Robert A. Pleshar" wrote: > Yes, I am certainly aware of these facts. The question is why is the world > of jazz different than the world of folk or rock or blues? What is it about > the culture of jazz writing that makes these the questions that get asked? > And why is it that the answers don't seem to satisfy the critics most of > the time? > Is Ornette a primitive or a theoretical mastermind? Can't he be both or > neither? Are these even the right categories or are they imposed by > "western" standards and don't even really fit? Does one need tons of > theoretical knowledge in order to play music in a certain style? Leaving > out ones taste for Ornette's playing, is it not conceivable that he did > come up with a new way of playing and putting things together and maybe was > not able to explain it very well? > > Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: who understands harmolodics? Date: 21 Jan 2002 22:59:19 +0000 >From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Leaving >out ones taste for Ornette's playing, is it not conceivable that he did >come up with a new way of playing and putting things together and maybe was >not able to explain it very well? Sure sounds like it when you hear Prime Time in flight! But, it's good to remember the analogy of Ornette as trickster, and the jazz press and especially the academics really set themselves up for swallowing deliberately obscure musical theory. My main criticism of latter day ('80s-'90s) Ornette is that his recorded output has been sparse and lacklustre. Though I still gotta smile about all the Deadheads that bought his Virgin Beauty date (Jerry's on it, maan) after Prime Time toured with the Dead... np: Anthony Braxton In The Tradition _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Heller Subject: jazz journalism Date: 21 Jan 2002 15:14:09 -0800 Robert asked, "The question is why is the world of jazz different than the world of folk or rock or blues? What is it about the culture of jazz writing that makes these the questions that get asked?" That question bears more speculation than I gave it in the other email. Rock journalism has, since about 1967, been largely in the same analytical/intellectual boat as its jazz counterpart. Personally -- and this is speaking as someone who has collected paychecks both for writing about music and playing music (I make my living at the latter) -- I am not sure either music has benefitted from the analysis, because that type of analysis tends to leave a lot of music by the curb because it does not fit into a critical thesis. Critics shouldn't be blamed for this. They have a point of view they're trying to get across, just like musicians. And they're trying to pick up a paycheck without doing any heavy lifting, just like musicians. Critics generally fall into two categories A) Guys who know a lot about music who decide to write B) Guys who write who become interested in music Musicians, regardless of style, generally fall into the category of "Guys who know how to do music (to whatever degree), so they do music." Jazz journalism has been too often plagued by the specter of intellectualism, and, as a result, music that does not come with noticiable intellectualism attatched gets the shirt shrift. A great many players who ma