Re: MtMan-List: Trade gun!1750's to 1770's

[hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce)]

concure with john totally---"QUALITY,QUALITY,QUALITY"  buy what you can
afford---My trade gun was made by pappy horn in 1974 and has a boska
barrel that is 44 " long(Its 28 gage and shoots a 535 round ball just
like my rifle) the lock(which is a charlieville) had the same problem
that john was talking about---a mushy spring---also had a problem with
the frizzen being soft---cased the frizzen and have never had a problem
with sparks since---have a extra frizzen that I carry in the shooting
bag---been toating it for many years and have never had the need to
change since i cased the one on the gun---we made a new spring for the
lock and i'ts not mushy any more---stought enough it takes some work to
cock--never misfires now---eats up the flints but never misfires---"its
very fast in the fall)  cant remember when it misfired--will wear the
flint down to the cock jaws before it needs replacing but i normally
replace it ever 20 or 30 shots---I like the black english flints---almost
opaque and like them sharp --hard spots in the flints bang off after a
few shots because of the heavy mainspring tension---

The toutch hole size and location is important--- mine is extremely large
and will almost  put enough powder in the flash pan to fire if I close
the frizzen when I load it---don't stand to the left of me or you will
get flash burns.  I keep the lock cocks in good shape because of the size
of the toutch hole--yet the trigger pull is not bad---can drop the gun
when its cocked and it wont let the hammer fall---it is also fast enough
that you can turn the gun upside down and it will still fire with the
powder falling out of the pan.    I have a flash deflector that I put on
it when i am at matches because of the size of the toutch hole

the barrel thickness is why I had Boska make me a barrel I didn't think
that the ones on the market that I saw were thick enough to be safe so I
had him add a .040 to the wall of the barrel and heavy up in the places
it needed to have the strength required--gun still weights less than 8
pounds----no extra  on anything else-----shoots like a Rifle out to 100
yds---with round ball--I use the rear screw and my fingers for a rear
sight---and normally can keep them in the black of a big bull target very
 consistantly.  I didn't like the 20 gage or larger because of the added
stock size except in the cutoff camp guns or buffilo runners---the stock
on my gun is good quality hard maple with the grain rinning with the
wrist and not sliceing the wrist---this helps to keep it from breaking
because of it's size-- the trigger guard is the only reinforcement in
this area---

remember what john said "quality, quality,quality"  this is where you get
accuracy and dependibility---YOU CANT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS
EAR---BUY THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD---ESPECIALLY THE BARREL AND THE
LOCK---can put them on a pine board and they will shoot good---- poor
quality and you get poor dependibility and poor shooting---and you will 
soon disharted in the sport and shooting----

YMHOSANT
        =+=
      "Hawk"
Michael Pierce
854 Glenfield Dr.
Palm Harbor, florida   34684
1-(813) 771-1815     E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:56:19 -0500 John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
writes:
>One thing about shooting a Charleville is the lock springs guarantee 
>sparks no
>matter if your rock is sharp, if you've got almost any hunk of flint
>clamped in
>the cock jaws you are going to get sparks.  I've always felt the 
>springs on
>reproduction Brown Bess's were too soft and slow, they still seem to 
>work
>pretty well.  
>
>The main problem with many Trade Guns is the locks have soft slow 
>springs;
>they
>need a real sharp flint.  Some of the frizzens aren't tempered well 
>and some
>makers drill the flash hole too close to the bottom of the pan, or too 
>far
>forward or rear of center.  I've seen some really thin barrels that 
>concerned
>me.  Stocks are light (often poorly grained) and tend to break at the 
>wrist. 
>Too many "first, and sometimes only, guns" were trade guns because 
>there were
>some cheap kits some years back.
>
>Hawk has it right about going for quality, and the Italian made 
>Charleville's
>are bullet proof, my horse thrice tried to bend mine around a tree, 
>took a few
>hours of careful smithing on a rock with an axe butt to straighten the 
>ramrod
>but she still shoots straight, a few cracks in the fore stock, a 
>little
>missing
>wood.  Been abusing it since 1978.  I tripped a hand forged beaver 
>trap
>with it
>a couple of times to leave a few more period marks on the butt stock.  
>
>
>Many years ago I owned incredible Mulford, Bivens, Smola and other 
>fine makers
>arms.  Every time I took one in the field I was too concerned about 
>injuring
>the fine finish carving, inlay and detail.  then I got my Charleville. 
> First
>thing I did was throw it on the ground, throw rocks at it, left it out 
>in the
>rain and personally wet it down in the hot sun to rust the barrel and 
>lock,
>stomped on it, beat it with chains,  and never worried about hurting 
>its fine
>finish again.  I rub it down with my Improver once in a while and it 
>is
>beautiful.  The iron is nearly black and the wood rich.  I've had 
>several
>"experts" at gun shows swear it's an original.
>
>I also carry a (20 to the pound) buffalo runner cut down from an old 
>Green
>River Forge kit and like it a lot.  Ain't nothing left to break off.
>Plenty of
>iron in the barrel.  The best parts then available.  
>
>The fine tuned crisp springs in a quality rifle/fowler lock don't 
>exist in
>muskets.  Too spend a lot of time fine tuning a musket lock seems a 
>little
>odd,
>its not what a musket was.  I prefer stouter  springs on mine.
>
>The kit the blanket gun was made from cost $325 in 1981.  The stock 
>was
>roughed
>out and not even close to inletted or drilled for the ramrod.  Hated 
>to whack
>off so much nice wood.  Traded a bunch of prime plunder to Mike Wilson 
>to
>build
>it for me.  A blanket gun takes as much to build as a full length 
>trade gun.
>
>Buy the best you can afford and look around a little first.  You'll 
>soon
>develop an eye for quality.
>
>John...
>
>
>
>
>At 09:12 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>David'
>>
>>You might consider a Tulle' fusil in 20 ga. I have had one I put
>>together a few years ago and I love it. It is light and handy and 
>quit
>>accurate with a patched ball. It shoots shoot very well with simple
>>wadding. The best part is that it goes way back to the mid 1700's and 
>is
>>not out of place in the early 1800's.
>>
>>I also have a Charlleville Musket that I got somewhere back in the 
>late
>>70's or early 80's and only went to the Tulle' cause the ammo is 
>lighter
>>for the Tulle' with it being 20 ga. and the Charlleville being 14 ga.
>>The Charlleville shot every bit as good as the Tulle' if not a 
>smidgen
>>better and I had a heck of a lot of fun shooting with the rifle boys
>>around WA. Give em a good scare whenever that Charlleville came out 
>of
>>its case, I did!
>>
>>I have some friends that carry Northwest trade guns and they have 
>their
>>share of problems with them. That's why they usually don't go for all
>>that much money. Be real careful if that is what you are looking to 
>buy.
>>My best advice to anyone getting ready to invest some money in a gun 
>is
>>get as much quality as you can afford and quality will start at well
>>over $500 (in my opinion). That is for a quality kit that isn't too 
>hard
>>to put together.
>>
>>Well that is my bit of advice. Let us know what you come up with. 
>Good
>>luck.
>>
>>I remain
>>YMOS
>>Capt. Lahti
>> 
>Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
>John Kramer  <kramer@kramerize.com>
>
>

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