Re: MtMan-List: Trade gun!1750's to 1770's

["Jerry H. Wheeler" <itwhee@mcn.org>]

MICHAL---iron tongue hear  if got a recipe that does wonders for case
hardening . if you want it ill give it to you . it will take mild steel and
make a case hard on you wont believe it goes deep into the metal but still
leaves enough of the soft that its pliable and strong/       iron tongue

Michael Pierce wrote:

> concure with john totally---"QUALITY,QUALITY,QUALITY"  buy what you can
> afford---My trade gun was made by pappy horn in 1974 and has a boska
> barrel that is 44 " long(Its 28 gage and shoots a 535 round ball just
> like my rifle) the lock(which is a charlieville) had the same problem
> that john was talking about---a mushy spring---also had a problem with
> the frizzen being soft---cased the frizzen and have never had a problem
> with sparks since---have a extra frizzen that I carry in the shooting
> bag---been toating it for many years and have never had the need to
> change since i cased the one on the gun---we made a new spring for the
> lock and i'ts not mushy any more---stought enough it takes some work to
> cock--never misfires now---eats up the flints but never misfires---"its
> very fast in the fall)  cant remember when it misfired--will wear the
> flint down to the cock jaws before it needs replacing but i normally
> replace it ever 20 or 30 shots---I like the black english flints---almost
> opaque and like them sharp --hard spots in the flints bang off after a
> few shots because of the heavy mainspring tension---
>
> The toutch hole size and location is important--- mine is extremely large
> and will almost  put enough powder in the flash pan to fire if I close
> the frizzen when I load it---don't stand to the left of me or you will
> get flash burns.  I keep the lock cocks in good shape because of the size
> of the toutch hole--yet the trigger pull is not bad---can drop the gun
> when its cocked and it wont let the hammer fall---it is also fast enough
> that you can turn the gun upside down and it will still fire with the
> powder falling out of the pan.    I have a flash deflector that I put on
> it when i am at matches because of the size of the toutch hole
>
> the barrel thickness is why I had Boska make me a barrel I didn't think
> that the ones on the market that I saw were thick enough to be safe so I
> had him add a .040 to the wall of the barrel and heavy up in the places
> it needed to have the strength required--gun still weights less than 8
> pounds----no extra  on anything else-----shoots like a Rifle out to 100
> yds---with round ball--I use the rear screw and my fingers for a rear
> sight---and normally can keep them in the black of a big bull target very
>  consistantly.  I didn't like the 20 gage or larger because of the added
> stock size except in the cutoff camp guns or buffilo runners---the stock
> on my gun is good quality hard maple with the grain rinning with the
> wrist and not sliceing the wrist---this helps to keep it from breaking
> because of it's size-- the trigger guard is the only reinforcement in
> this area---
>
> remember what john said "quality, quality,quality"  this is where you get
> accuracy and dependibility---YOU CANT MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS
> EAR---BUY THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD---ESPECIALLY THE BARREL AND THE
> LOCK---can put them on a pine board and they will shoot good---- poor
> quality and you get poor dependibility and poor shooting---and you will
> soon disharted in the sport and shooting----
>
> YMHOSANT
>         =+=
>       "Hawk"
> Michael Pierce
> 854 Glenfield Dr.
> Palm Harbor, florida   34684
> 1-(813) 771-1815     E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com
>
> On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:56:19 -0500 John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
> writes:
> >One thing about shooting a Charleville is the lock springs guarantee
> >sparks no
> >matter if your rock is sharp, if you've got almost any hunk of flint
> >clamped in
> >the cock jaws you are going to get sparks.  I've always felt the
> >springs on
> >reproduction Brown Bess's were too soft and slow, they still seem to
> >work
> >pretty well.
> >
> >The main problem with many Trade Guns is the locks have soft slow
> >springs;
> >they
> >need a real sharp flint.  Some of the frizzens aren't tempered well
> >and some
> >makers drill the flash hole too close to the bottom of the pan, or too
> >far
> >forward or rear of center.  I've seen some really thin barrels that
> >concerned
> >me.  Stocks are light (often poorly grained) and tend to break at the
> >wrist.
> >Too many "first, and sometimes only, guns" were trade guns because
> >there were
> >some cheap kits some years back.
> >
> >Hawk has it right about going for quality, and the Italian made
> >Charleville's
> >are bullet proof, my horse thrice tried to bend mine around a tree,
> >took a few
> >hours of careful smithing on a rock with an axe butt to straighten the
> >ramrod
> >but she still shoots straight, a few cracks in the fore stock, a
> >little
> >missing
> >wood.  Been abusing it since 1978.  I tripped a hand forged beaver
> >trap
> >with it
> >a couple of times to leave a few more period marks on the butt stock.
> >
> >
> >Many years ago I owned incredible Mulford, Bivens, Smola and other
> >fine makers
> >arms.  Every time I took one in the field I was too concerned about
> >injuring
> >the fine finish carving, inlay and detail.  then I got my Charleville.
> > First
> >thing I did was throw it on the ground, throw rocks at it, left it out
> >in the
> >rain and personally wet it down in the hot sun to rust the barrel and
> >lock,
> >stomped on it, beat it with chains,  and never worried about hurting
> >its fine
> >finish again.  I rub it down with my Improver once in a while and it
> >is
> >beautiful.  The iron is nearly black and the wood rich.  I've had
> >several
> >"experts" at gun shows swear it's an original.
> >
> >I also carry a (20 to the pound) buffalo runner cut down from an old
> >Green
> >River Forge kit and like it a lot.  Ain't nothing left to break off.
> >Plenty of
> >iron in the barrel.  The best parts then available.
> >
> >The fine tuned crisp springs in a quality rifle/fowler lock don't
> >exist in
> >muskets.  Too spend a lot of time fine tuning a musket lock seems a
> >little
> >odd,
> >its not what a musket was.  I prefer stouter  springs on mine.
> >
> >The kit the blanket gun was made from cost $325 in 1981.  The stock
> >was
> >roughed
> >out and not even close to inletted or drilled for the ramrod.  Hated
> >to whack
> >off so much nice wood.  Traded a bunch of prime plunder to Mike Wilson
> >to
> >build
> >it for me.  A blanket gun takes as much to build as a full length
> >trade gun.
> >
> >Buy the best you can afford and look around a little first.  You'll
> >soon
> >develop an eye for quality.
> >
> >John...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:12 PM 7/28/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >>David'
> >>
> >>You might consider a Tulle' fusil in 20 ga. I have had one I put
> >>together a few years ago and I love it. It is light and handy and
> >quit
> >>accurate with a patched ball. It shoots shoot very well with simple
> >>wadding. The best part is that it goes way back to the mid 1700's and
> >is
> >>not out of place in the early 1800's.
> >>
> >>I also have a Charlleville Musket that I got somewhere back in the
> >late
> >>70's or early 80's and only went to the Tulle' cause the ammo is
> >lighter
> >>for the Tulle' with it being 20 ga. and the Charlleville being 14 ga.
> >>The Charlleville shot every bit as good as the Tulle' if not a
> >smidgen
> >>better and I had a heck of a lot of fun shooting with the rifle boys
> >>around WA. Give em a good scare whenever that Charlleville came out
> >of
> >>its case, I did!
> >>
> >>I have some friends that carry Northwest trade guns and they have
> >their
> >>share of problems with them. That's why they usually don't go for all
> >>that much money. Be real careful if that is what you are looking to
> >buy.
> >>My best advice to anyone getting ready to invest some money in a gun
> >is
> >>get as much quality as you can afford and quality will start at well
> >>over $500 (in my opinion). That is for a quality kit that isn't too
> >hard
> >>to put together.
> >>
> >>Well that is my bit of advice. Let us know what you come up with.
> >Good
> >>luck.
> >>
> >>I remain
> >>YMOS
> >>Capt. Lahti
> >>
> >Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
> >John Kramer  <kramer@kramerize.com>
> >
> >
>
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