Pat the statement of Cottonwood might be in correct I think they used Ponderosa Pine. I don't remember if I read it or see it in at Ft Clatsop OR or just dreamed it. But recall the pine because I know how hard it is to work when it is wet with pitch. Later Jon T
----------
: From: John L. Allen <jlallen@snet.net>
: To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rubber goods
: Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 3:26 PM
:
: More on the collapsible boat of Lewis and Clark:
:
: As my original message stated, the iron frame boat was intended to be
: covered with skins or bark. Rubber was never--as far as I know--even
: suggested.
:
: The boat was NOT carried across the mountains. It was abandoned during the
: portage around Great Falls (of the Missouri). After covering the iron frame
: with skins on July 9, 1805 (above the Great Falls), to produce the
: collapsible boat, Lewis tried to make her river-worthy. The buffalo hides,
: however, shrunk and the iron boat foundered. Knowing that it was too late in
: the season to get and prepare more buffalo hides, the decision was made to
: abandon the iron frame.To quote from the Journals, Lewis's entry for
: Tuesday, July 9th, 1805: I therefore relinquished all further hope of my
: favorite boat and ordered her to be sunk in the water, that the skins might
: become soft in order the better to take her in peices [sic] tomorrow and
: deposited the iron fraim [sic] at this place as it could probably be of no
: further service to us.
:
: This was end of the iron boat experiment. Ken Karsminski of the Museum of
: the Rockies in Bozeman, MT, has made a concerted search for the iron frame
: in the Great Falls area without success. My guess is that the Indians found
: it and broke it up for the iron to use in war-axes, etc.
:
: But the iron or collapsible boat did most certainly not cross the Rockies
: with the Expedition.
:
: Keep your powder dry.
:
: John.
:
: Dr. John L. Allen
: 21 Thomas Drive
: Storrs, CT 06268
: 860/487-1346
: jlallen@snet.net
:
:
: -----Original Message-----
: From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
: To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
: Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:41 PM
: Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rubber goods
:
:
: >Regarding the collapsible boat of Lewis and Clark:
: >As I recall, the frame was lugged over the mountains to the first western
: >flowing stream, where the Corps attempted to complete the plan of covering
: >it with skins (not rubber). This was one of several "high tech" devices
: >produced to support the expedition, such as the well known lead canisters
: >with powder, the air rifle, and the 1803 pattern Harper's Ferry rifles.
: This
: >one, however, failed, despite the best efforts of Lewis, as recounted in
: >"Undaunted Courage". They used glover's needles to sew the skins, which
: >produced slight slits which opened up under strain, and they couldn't get
: >adequate pitch or a substitute for sealing. After some weeks of effort,
: >Lewis had to abandon the project and cached the frame. Meanwhile, Clark had
: >moved men downstream until they found cottonwoods big enough to make
: >dugouts, which carried them down river to the Pacific.
: >Pat Quilter
: >
: >-----Original Message-----
: >From: John L. Allen [mailto:jlallen@snet.net]
: >Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 8:59 AM
: >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
: >Subject: MtMan-List: Rubber goods
: >
: >
: >Ho the list,
: >
: >A question was raised a few days ago about whether or not Lewis and Clark
: >had a rubber boat. This question came out of the thread relating to rubber
: >ponchos, etc.
: >
: >Lewis and Clark did not have a rubber boat. They carried an iron frame
: (made
: >in Pittsburgh) for a "portable boat" up the Missouri as far as Great Falls
: >where they abandoned (or cached) it. This iron frame was intended to be
: >covered with hides and/or bark. Although we have no good description of it,
: >it was probably something like an Irish curragh--or even like a Mandan
: >bullboat.
: >
: >John C. Fremont, in 1842-44, used rubber boats on his first two expeditions
: >into the West. He refers to them as "India rubber" boats and mentions them
: >in his journals as being used on both the North Platte and the Great Salt
: >Lake. His rubber boat worked well on the Platte in 1842. The next year, on
: >Salt Lake, he noted that the rubber boat didn't work as well since it
: wasn't
: >"as well stitched together" as the one used on his first expedition. This
: >suggests a boat made from several pieces of material sewn in some fashion.
: >These rubber boats were 20 feet long and 5 feet wide and could carry a
: >wagon. They were apparently inflatable (he mentions several places "filling
: >our India rubber boat with air"). Best source for Fremont is Donald Jackson
: >and Mary Spence (eds.), THE EXPEDITIONS OF JOHN CHARLES FREMONT, 3 vols.
: >Univ. of Illinois Press.
: >
: >If Fremont, in 1842-44, was using an inflatable rubber boat, then obviously
: >the technology was in place to make serviceable ponchos, etc. out of rubber
: >or rubber-coated cloth during at least the tail end of the Rocky Mountain
: >fur trade era.
: >
: >Keep your powder dry.
: >
: >John
: >
: >Dr. John L. Allen
: >21 Thomas Drive
: >Storrs, CT 06268
: >860/487-1346
: >jlallen@snet.net <mailto:jlallen@snet.net>
: >
: >
: >
: >
:
: